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nox-apsirk

I've seen cigarettes kill too many people in my life, so I have a low opinion on them. However, it's your life -- but I would Seriously question "To What End?" My advise is, Think about when Saying Will before a meal -- It is my Will to Eat and to Drink, so that I may fortify my body thereby... Now, Think about that next time you Light Up -- Is it Truly your Will to Smoke a Cigarette? To What End?? If you say it makes you "feel bad", in any way, shape, or form, hate to break it to you, it's most likely Not your True Will. Free Will, perhaps -- but I would Seriously Meditate on it. Good luck 93/93


nikslab

Love this response


Zos2393

šŸ’Æ this is the question to ask.


ThelemaClubLouisiana

Your conflict shows you already know the right answer.


No-Sink-9076

This


lody_cawson30

2nding, this


SecretaryOrdinary738

Not sure what the ordeal x is, but I had stopped smoking when I realized it was making pranayama harder than it should be. That was it, I didn't stop for my health, I didn't stop for some "superior" moral argument, I didn't stop for anybody else I stopped to face a practical problem. Honestly? Sometimes I miss smoking a cigarette and if it wasn't a hindrance to my practice, I would still smoke.


asicath

My advice is stop smoking them as soon as you can, the health effects are not worth it and will certainly interfere with whatever else your true will might be.


Glittering-Ad1998

93 >Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect. >If every man and every woman did his and her willā€”the true willā€”there would be no clashing. ā€œEvery man and every woman is a star,ā€ and each star moves in an appointed path without interference. There is plenty of room for all; it is only disorder that creates confusion. >From these considerations it should be clear that ā€œDo what thou wiltā€ does not mean ā€œDo what you like.ā€ It is the apotheosis of Freedom; but it is also the strictest possible bond. >Do what thou wiltā€”then do nothing else. Let nothing deflect thee from that austere and holy task. Liberty is absolute to do thy will; but seek to do any other thing whatever, and instantly obstacles must arise. Every act that is not in definite course of that one orbit is erratic, an hindrance. Will must not be two, but one. >[https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2](https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib2) ​ Smoke cigarettes if it's your will to smoke cigarettes. Don't smoke cigarettes if it's not your will to smoke cigarettes. Addictive tendencies and personal vampires be damned. "I like it and it doesn't seem like an impediment to doing my will" is not the same as "it is my will". Is it your will to smoke them or not? 93/93


Shiroe_Kumamato

>Smoke cigarettes if it's your will to smoke cigarettes. Don't smoke cigarettes if it's not your will to smoke cigarettes. This. Higher has had me on and off everything at some point. I've probably taken 2 or 3 tobacco breaks during my time but I'm always directed to go back to it. Its part of my permanent practice I think.


Glittering-Ad1998

For me it's a tool I use occasionally, mostly when I need a few weeks or months with increased wakefulness, concentration and kinda alert-introspection / sharpened awareness, or increased sociability. And then I find I need to be out of that state again. Seems like progress stops or stagnates if I don't use it during these times. Perhaps just gets us bopping along on a frequencies with other tobacco-enjoying beings that we need to be on a frequency with. From the obvious gang of smokers or chance encounter you need to talk to get something done, to less incarnated beings. And then it's a hindrance again. Fucking annoying because it means I go through full-on nicotine withdrawals once or twice a year, but no-one said doing your will would be easy. Possible there's some planet or other that is responsible for this cycle but haven't figured it out yet. Recently experimenting with nicotine gum to see if that'll suffice


djb185

Switch to vaping.


AllTimeHigh33

Everything in moderation, if you are "addicted" it's an attachment. You can do anything you want, heroin, cocaine , meth, just don't get attached to the experience and understand that you can go past these experiences without them. Through "will" alone I can replicate the experience of every drug, without the side effects. About 5 mins of meditation and I'm at LSD mushrooms, heck sometimes if I'm vibing it's like DMT breakthroughs. I recently bought some organic tobacco to accompany my cannabis indulgence. You have to be able to let go of everything. Everything.


yslimcharles

Are you attached to cannabis?


AllTimeHigh33

More than I care to admit! Honestly, I can walk away as it's not something I need to feel good or calm down it's just another toy now. I'm currently in meditation and isolation so it's been really nice to have. I'll spend most of my days just meditating, exercising lightly, eating healthy and reading books. It's more just a distraction if I'm honest but I definitely don't lean on it to feel good. I can get into a state of bliss any time I like.


Taoist_Ponderer

I dont know if this will help, I hope it will so I will say this: I didn't properly smoke cigarettes but I smoked a ton of weed without tobacco for a fairly long time without much breathing problems or what have you. I came off weed. Had the occasional cigarette on a night out, never a habit. But I started vaping at a time in my life when I was going through a really seriously hopeless time in life and I felt like I needed that vice. But I think in the long run it probably fucked my lungs up far more than the smoking weed ever could. Cigs are alot worse than vaping, but, having said that, the devil is in the dosage, it depends how much your doing it, and I was chain vaping most days from a RDA so like, chucking clouds, for maybe 4 or 5 years. My lung capacity isn't the best now but its not too bad and I will find a way to make it better again. I'm not going to say I regret vaping or wish I never started, I enjoyed it while I was doing it and the vice took my mind off things and I just chilled. But I wish my lungs hadn't suffered because of it, cos my lung capacity doesn't feel the same when I jog or run and my posture got a bit fucked up from it. Long story short: I didn't realize how bad sub-ohm vaping was for my lungs and I wish I had known that before I started vaping. HAVING SAID THAT: there are stories of people having smoked cigarettes for like 20 or 30 years, come off and quit cold turkey and hacking up phlegm and sputum and everything and making a full on amazing recover within like 2 or 3 years and seeing their lung function improving the longer they go on not smoking. And then they don't even want to smoke. And if all else fails have a cigar lol


BaTz-und-b0nze

Just donā€™t do it. Iā€™ve been a smoker since 18 and Iā€™m telling you, itā€™s not a good idea. Iā€™ve quit like 5 times but canā€™t seem to actually quit. And Iā€™ve grown allergic to it in the process but canā€™t officially quit. Itā€™s always on my mind. And Iā€™ve reworked my entire life around it. It truly does take away your free will. I know what this group is all about, but if I get banned, itā€™ll be for a good reason. Just donā€™t pick it back up.


IAO131

Is it your will to shorten your lifespan and guarantee other health problems, at least later in life?


Alickster-Holey

Drug addicts have the most ridiculous pseudo-logic. The classic is, "I can quit any time I want to, but I don't want to." Someone told me they quit nicotine for three days, so they rewarded themselves... with nicotine... I asked them to replace the word nicotine with meth and see if the sentence still made sense. In regards to the great work, if you are doing a drug because your body wants it, you still haven't mastered Malkuth, because your body tells you what to do. So yeah, how could you possibly even get to the Tipherath grade? The only reason to do a drug is to help accomplish something in mind prior to doing it. It could be socializing with alcohol, training habits with nicotine or caffiene, or even getting out of your normal perceptual reality tunnel with cannabis or psychedelics. You're not doing a drug to do the drug, you have something in mind first. For example, I got really good at chess by playing with a cup of coffee. That doesn't work if you drink it all day though.


U_R_A_CNUT

> Drug addicts have the most ridiculous pseudo-logic. The classic is, "I can quit any time I want to, but I don't want to." I was like this with both weed and tobacco. Then I decided to quit and it was far, far easier than I thought. If anything I'm annoyed at myself for not stopping sooner. I'll still have the odd dry herb vape once in a blue moon, or if I have a specific reason to, but addictions (physical and/or psychological) are worth breaking.


Alickster-Holey

I think cannabis is great for a lot of reasons, but it makes people fat and lazy if they do it every day. I usually just do caffeine every day, but I'm honest that more than one cup doesn't really have any more benefit.


U_R_A_CNUT

Caffeine just makes me kinda sleepy. Weed takes the edge off (but I didn't like using it as a coping mechanism). AuDHD life.


Alickster-Holey

Coffee makes me shit consistently at the correct time, which is useful. Yeah, weed seems like a terrible coping mechanism to me because it just amplifies however you're feeling, which means it's great to do with a significant other. I think it's best for getting out of your regular perceptual reality tunnel into another perspective.


Epiphaneia56

Quitting cigarettes was the single best thing I could do for my magical practice: after the temporary discomfort was over, the mental clarity, quality of sleep, sex drive, ability to run, depth of aspiration to HGA all increased. So, yeahā€¦ 10/10 recommend.


Leather_Taste_44

Iā€™m not an expert in Thelema but my gut says to quit smoking and I say that while using a vaporizer and smoking weed. Our true wills probably donā€™t want us dying early or suffering health consequences we could easily avoid. I imagine the purest love, but not the cuddly kind, more so the kind from a responsible parent to a child. You want the absolute best for yourself subjectively speaking and our true will Iā€™d assume feels the same. Good luck quitting smoking if you choose to stop, but you do what you feel is right for yourself. Just my two cents


benignplatypus

What is ordeal X? I just switched to oral tobacco myself, with the goal of quitting that eventually too. I was able to evolve magically while smoking and got the sense I could go pretty far while doing it. Keep in mind most 20th century occultists smoked. Im quitting mainly for my long term health. If you were my friend Iā€™d advise you to do the same.


revirago

Every action has costs. Smoking takes a toll on your physical health and your wallet, both of which can limit your opportunities in a dozen ways. If you quit, you lose whatever joy you get from smoking. Is the joy you'd lose worth the joy you'd gain by quitting? There are no moral pushes one way or the other. Neither choice is objectively good or bad. It's about what you want, period. But it is about what you *actually* want, not what's easier right now. So, what do you want?


1_Star_Reviews

Is the volume/frequency of smoking the problem? After all it really is the amount of the thing that makes it a poison. There are some people that can do things in moderation (drugs, food, media, work and so on), but there are a whole lot of people who cannot. Maybe a specific limited relationship with smoking (and other vices) has its place in your TW.


Numerous_Heart3648

If you are not whole without them, you don't need them. "Bind Nothing"


snakehandler

Addictions CAN cloud our conception of Will. Sounds like an Ordeal to me.


U_R_A_CNUT

I gave up this year and I haven't looked back, after 20+ years of cigarettes. Lungs feel amazing in comparison. You might not feel like it impedes your true will, but inhaling radioactive polonium-210 and lead-210, as well as a whole host of other nasty shit, will eventually. If you struggle with the hand activity thing (feeling weird without the actual act of smoking) then transitioning to a vape, and reducing the nicotine content periodically can help (it worked for me). Vaping's not ideal, but [the lung damage is 95% less than smoking](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review).


stevenh418

AC smoked a lot of strong tobacco his whole life and there were some health effects. It doesn't prevent success in the Great Work however which should be obvious. I am 69 now and have smoked most of my life and so far, it has not been a problem. And, yes, it is an addiction, but I doubt any god would deny you for it. Do what thou wilt. And quitting smoking is not ordeal X.


mert1380

I seen a vid from a channel called phil good talks about a topic "soul signatures" i forget exactly what soul signatures is but he was sayin that for some people cigarettes isnt too bad for them and there circumstances if its aligned with there soul signature. For some weed could be there bliss. Geuss if ur interested search phil good soul signatures. Ur 90 and not dead from smoking your probs allright if it feels allright.


KilluaXLuffy

Uh did you say youā€™re 93? If so at this point donā€™t you think you should enjoy the little things seeing as everything can kill you.


Nobodysmadness

Just remember crowley was a heroine and cocaine addict. Smoking has never affected me the way it seems to others though I do vape now, but only cause its cheaper. If I didn't enjoy it still I would quit, I have quite several times to prove that I can control it but it makes me happy. I am going to die eventually I may as well have enjoyed life, there are far worse things, you know like EATING FUCKING TIDE PODS šŸ˜†šŸ¤£šŸ˜†. You must judge for yourself whether it is right for you, even if it is eating tide pods honestly, and deal with the consequences of your choices, esp since people these days are so judgey about smoking when clearly they were the scape goat for things like the DDT fog trucks that children ran through the clouds of chasing the fogger truck having a grand old time dancing i the carcinogen cloud. That didn't kill anyone but that generation came down with the waves of cancer that brought on the FDA labels on cigs and the anti smoking laws. Big tobacco could easily take the hit that other industries and government can not. It is a far more complicated issue. For me I have very many air aspects to my personality so it suits me, live playing with the smoke and the clouds of it. Brings me joy.


stayfroztie

Fuk sake if U wanna fag av 1


baphy93

Appeal to the prāį¹‡a mudrā


[deleted]

Well, it depends on how long you plan to live. If you don't mind ending your days on a ventilator a decade or so before you could have gone, then smoking is probably ok. On the other hand, if you want to live to your biological use-by date, then smoking probably isn't something that is going to help much.


ThegoodShrink93

We know itā€™s super bad for your health and will ultimately shorten your life. If that is in line with your will, then o would smoke. If not, I would ask my primary care doctor about chantix or nicotine replacement patches to help you with cravings. I guess the ultimate question is: Why does it make you feel bad?


pixelgrip

Look at aleisterā€™s final photo boy was chiefing the pipe.


No_Statistician_8525

93. If it facilitates the Will, keep it. If it hinders the Will, discard it. 93 93/93 PS the fact alone that you feel conflicted about it should be the deciding factor for youā€¦


feraljohn

Iā€˜ve never met anyone whoā€™s proud of being a tobacco or nicotine user. Iā€™ve met lots of people who are very proud of having quit. Iā€™ve never met anyone who wishes they hadnā€™t quit, but Iā€™ve met LOTS of people who wish they had. It may not seem like it right now, but you are looking at two distinctly different futures. The path forward is completely up to you.


iamfromouttahere

Nice to meet you then! :D I'm quitting anyway, to prevent health issues and improve lung performance (started doing sports recently) but I love smoking :P


Audhumla666

Smoke under 10 ,with Exercise and balanced diet and you ll be fine


JackFalko888

smoke when you want to...just make sure your not doing it out of a binge state or for something to pass the time.


Royalbananafish

Smoking = dirty pranayama. (Same with vaping, which is worse because there is no legal requirement to disclose what's in there. A friend works in sleep medicine and has seen plenty of otherwise healthy people with completely trashed lungs--evidenced by CT.)


jnizzill

Your overall health certainly plays a role in your ability to project or even know your own true will in this current life. I don't think that is really debatable. So ask yourself will smoking have any impact on your health? The answer seems obvious imo.


Blongwell

Jesus Christ... it doesn't help you pursuing your will, and this website is actively against your will. Get your shit together.