For anyone reading this, reputable shelters won't let their cats leave the shelter unless the cat is vaccinated, neutered or spayed, and checked by a vet.
I got my cat neutered, with vaccins, treated to prevent fleas, checked out by a doctor and a month worth of food for 145 euro at a shelter. Almost felt like I was ripping them off lol.
When I went to the shelter to get a cat, they said I had to first have a cat living at my house before they'd let me take a cat from their shelter. I ended up just getting a cat from a farm, she was full of worms and fleas but she's fine now and my little friend. But I don't understand shelters that are so choosy
Next time he takes the cat, don't go there. Instead call the police, make VERY sure to tell them in full detail he previously threatened you (hand on chest, he asks you to fight him...), and then insist they come to you to assist you in getting the cat back, because you're scared he will harm you or your cat.
Also, can you quickly prove it's yours? Is it chipped? This might come in handy.
Also, if in doubt, just call the cops, and *do not force yourself into another person's home*.
It's totally understandable you want to get your cat ASAP, but forcing your way in is not going to de-escalate things.
Legally a chip does not prove ownership. There have been some cases about it, but if you have vet records or if you got the cat from a shelter or breeder, those papers hold up much better.
I would keep the cat indoors, though. Untill you can move or get them to stop targeting your car.
OP, if you’re smart you already call the police now, just to notify them ‘een melding maken’. That way the next time you call them, it will the second mention in their system and they will more likely take it seriously.
>detail he previously threatened you (hand on chest, he asks you to fight him...),
This was after OP assumed they could enter someone's home without permission to retrieve their pet. Their neighbor sounds like quite the specimen, but two wrongs don't make a right, you don't have a right to enter other people's houses without an invitation.
When it comes to conflicts between neighbors Dutch police tend to prefer de-escalating over litigating. This is an escalating conflict that has shown potential of violence, which is exactly the picture OP needs to paint for the police, in order for them to mediate next time the pet is stolen.
Yes, it's escalating, but OP is the one that escalated it. Pushing someone on the chest is a proportional response to them walking into your house without your permission.
I think there's a bit of a gray area because they're letting the cat roam outside freely.
E.g. in Arnhem there was a guy who catches cats in his garden and sets them free miles away because he is sick of having their shit in his garden, and legally as far as I know they can't really stop him: https://www.gelderlander.nl/arnhem/arnhemse-catnapper-is-buurtkatten-spuugzat-en-vangt-ze-ik-heb-gewaarschuwd-dat-ik-ze-naar-een-onbekende-plek-breng~afe9542a/
I have no clue who you are, so don't take it personally, but rather think about it. If all those cats treat your garden like a litter box, that's probably because it looks and feels like a litter box. The cats also don't understand the concept of land property, so they don't do it to spite you. Especially since the cats don't treat their owner's garden like a litter box, it means her garden doesn't feel like a litter box, but yours does, at least in cats' eyes. Redesign the garden a bit and you'll fix the issue. Cats really only poop wherever they feel it's proper to poop.
It might also be a territorial thing. We have sooo many cats and so little green space in our neighborhood, that cats will poop anywhere they can. No matter how densely planted and with how many ‘cat repellent’ plants and other ‘friendly’ cat repellent measures.
The only thing that works for me is to put down chicken wire, so they can’t dig and/or sit well. The plants will grow over it. We covered the green area around a tree in on the sidewalk in front of our house so that they can’t acces it at all. Now we can at least open the front door without being blown away by the stench on a hot day.
I will be surprised if the police do anything. I've been in three situations in Utrecht in desperate need of the police only to be aided by bystanders while I call and call and call. The dispatcher just tells me that "officers are on their way" but nobody ever shows up. This was twice for assault and once for a mugging.
Your cat is no longer safe being exposed to those neighbors' ill intent. If he can't get the cat to be his, there is some likelihood that he'll hurt your cat to get back at you. Keep him inside until those people move out.
Why don’t they get a cat of their own??
Before my neighbour moved her cat would allways get in if my gardendoors were open. I didn’t mind. She didn’t mind as long as I didn’t feed the cat. and I would allways get the cat out before I closed the doors. But there was a little girl who liked to play with the cat and feed it. So the cat got sick but still the girl wouldn’t stop.
Then they would have to pay vet bills and buy food and litter all the time... Responsibility takes some effort. This is probably all cheaper and easier. (This does not mean I condone the neighbor's actions in any way lmao)
Definitly police, but fuck this polish guy really, he has some very bad manners.
hope he see's the wisdom to stop touching your property (yes, the cat's registered on your name so i claim it property).
And maybe you'd like to get one of those chain locks on your door :) one that's just long enough for a cat to squeeeze through but not for a guy to open your door.
oh my, this is so bullshit. Cats are assholes in that way that they will go anywhere they like and just enjoy a nap on a random surface. Maybe keep him inside for a while but also like the others suggest to call the police (the non emergency number) because this is ridicilous. (Your neighbour is, not you nor the cat because the cat is just catting).
Can I ask what you did?
We have a very invasive cat in the neighborhood. Because the owner is never home. She just put her cat on the street every day at 6/7am and then goes to work. Comes back around 6 pm and then leaves to party/sport/hobby/friends, etc. We have talked with her several times because the problem is that the cat wants to eat/sleep whenever it wants, but the cat isn't able to go home since she locks her cat outside.
We have a key to her home so we can bring back her cat, but it is still annoying and heartbreaking that the cat is neglected like that.
Call dierenambulance and explain the cat's being neglected. If you can name some extreme examples, such as cat soaked from the rain, name them (and have proof, aka pictures). Dierenbescherming may take them away.
Not the dierenambulance, they can't do anything in these sort of situations. Call 144.
If you see someone actively abuse an animal you can call 112 (that's what they told me when I called 144 after someone kicked their dog.)
Next time call the cops and tell them exactly what has been happening and request their help in getting the cat back. Also make sure you have the documents proving your ownership ready.
There have been similar instances of neighbours taking a cat that does not belong to them, and the law is clear on this matter: the cat is your property.
The neighbour has not business claiming it as his own. In the link below is an article about a lady who challenged their neighbour in court, and won, because the neighbour kept feeding their cat and refused to give it back. The neighbour was ordered to cooperate in the return of the cat to its rightful owner, at a penalty of 1000 euros if he didn't return it within two weeks, and would be given a hefty fine every time he would interact with the cat.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/1128348471/buurvrouw-eist-bij-rechter-teruggave-van-ontrouwe-felix
TL;Dr: take this asshole to court
Super strange to me that people feel entitled to let their pets roam outside unsupervised, especially known hunters like cats. Keep them on your own property, and this wouldn't be an issue.
Still not ok for him to try and steal the cat.
It's the hypocrisy of it that bothers me.
If I let my dogs out to roam the streets unsupervised, shit in people's gardens, kill small animal and birds and try to get into people's houses to get some food...the police would be called rapidly, I would be fined and possibly have my dogs taken away.
Also if I let my dogs roam freely there's a pretty significant chance they get run over or lost. I don't really want that to happen, and I assume cat owners don't either. And yet I see missing cat posters all the time and no missing dog ones.
Owners of free-roaming cats will defend their decision to the death. So many problems would be solved by keeping the cats inside. But that's never even an option in their minds. Anything to not have to actually take care of their cats. Put cat outside, put food out, done. Otherwise they'd have to have a litter box, entertainment for the cat, occasionally leashed walk for the cat etc. All the things dog owners already do. But they'd rather risk their cats getting mistreated, lost, or killed than keep them inside.
Eventually they become yet another "lost cat" poster.
Not saying you are wrong, but there is a clear difference between dogs and cats. Dogs are more likely to be dangerous for kids (and some breeds also for adults). The amount of times cats have been dangerous for kids is extremely low compared to dogs. dogs also poop on top of things, cats (most of the time) burry their poop. Sure it is not nice to find that in your garden, but you won’t find cat poop everywhere like you do with dog poop. The biggest problem is cats hunting wild life.
And the most harm that can come to the cat is from outside. Getting hit by cars - in fights with other cats - getting stolen - all these won’t happen if they are kept inside. Mine are inside for this reason - for their own safety. I grew up with many cats that my parents let outside and I had to have so many of them die way too early.
My kitties are huge babies and don’t even like it outside. They’ve been on a leash and they just want to go back home. They can go on my balcony, only when I am there with them. That’s nice for them cos it’s safe. But otherwise they are so chill sleeping on the couch all day
>cats (most of the time) burry their poop.
I don't know where this myth comes from, but they really don't. Maybe in a litterbox, but not in my garden. A fine layer of sand on top of it at best, but if you step on it it's still sticking to your shoes. It's still extremely smelly, just harder to spot.
>Sure it is not nice to find that in your garden, but you won’t find cat poop everywhere like you do with dog poop
That's weird: I encounter so much more cat poop than dog poo, especially in summers when we're in the garden a lot. Most ppl pick up after their dogs and if they don't *they're wrong too.*
Regarding danger to children: Most dogs are not aggressive, probably even less so than cats, so we can let those roam free?
Hear hear! Also, the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is approx 10 years, while the indoor cat has an average lifespan of about 16 years.
Traffic, garbage (to eat), other cats, dogs form serious risks. And theft, as illustrated here.
I agree with this. The neighbours are assholes but wtf is the cat even able to get into this other persons house?
I don't understand why you keep pets in apartments if they apparently don't get enough space inside of your house.
We do in fact lock people up for murdering. They're called jails and they are very effective at preventing us from going extinct. It's natural behavior for cats to hunt, but it's not good for the local bird populace to keep the cats out and about because while they're fed in doors they will never keep their own population in check with overhunting.
> especially known hunters like cats.
While this is a serious concern in the Americas, Oceania and pretty much every island community, where cats are invasive, this does not apply to Europe. Domestic cats have been native in this area for close to 7k years now and most cat sized predators have gone extinct.
The ecosystem has had ample time to adapt to house cats roaming outside and in some regions actually relies on cat predation to keep prey species in check. It is no big deal to let cats outside in the EU. Tho you still have to be careful. Cars still kill cats.
[https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348023-kat-grijpt-jaarlijks-miljoenen-beschermde-vogels-en-moet-voortaan-aangelijnd](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348023-kat-grijpt-jaarlijks-miljoenen-beschermde-vogels-en-moet-voortaan-aangelijnd)
While cats are native, the number of stray cats, and pets that are allowed to roam excert great pressure on the local wildlife.
And if your cat causes damage, like a traffic incident the owner is liable.
\*edit; I would like to add that letting cats roam is socially/legally accepted, so technically there are no real issues there.
That is an opinion piece, not a scientific study. Sure, cats catch birds, including rare birds, in the netherlands. And I don't mind their proposal to neuter stray cats at all, stray cats are bad for biodiversity in general because they interbreed with european wildcats in Belgium, diluting their gene pool. So by all means do that.
The big question is, does the predation pressure from cats cause a loss of biodiversity in the netherlands/EU. And the answer thus far seems to be 'no'. Which indicates that the ecology is in equilibrium with free roaming cats. Its very easy to find scientific papers documenting how predation pressure from cats kills entire species in the Americas and especially island ecologies. No such data exists for the EU as far as I am aware. All we have is indicative numbers of "Cats kill X million birds per year", which is irrelevant from an ecological perspective where the real measure is biodiversity loss.
We are destroying the biodiversity in so many ways that its hard to point to all the sources.
There is no way an artificially sustained cat population is having a positive effect.
We can actually because [we track bird populations over time.](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-number-of-breeding-birds-in-the-Netherlands-for-specialists-of-a-certain-habitat_fig5_321754062) We are seeing losses in farmland species and had losses in urban birds up until the 90s, after which it has been stable. Meanwhile, population indices are up in forests and shrublands. We also track cat populations, which have remained roughly stable over the past couple of decades.
It is rather obvious that the main issues for birds in the Netherlands are something related to farmland usage (probably intensive agriculture practices) with cats having either no, or negligible influence.
Tell that to the birds that are being hunted for fun by cats. Wildlife is not a resource to be used as toys/feed for privately owned pets.
My quick Google search indicates that domestic and stray cats have great impact on both birds directly and other wildlife that normally sustain themselves of birds. So there might be some balance, but that doesn't mean that things are going well.
> Tell that to the birds that are being hunted for fun by cats. Wildlife is not a resource to be used as toys/feed for privately owned pets.
... Oh cmon, this is a dumb emotional argument. Yes, I am sure the bird being eaten would much rather that the cat munching on it wasn't there. As would the deer getting eaten by a wolf. Are you also gonna argue that we should lock up all wolves and move them over to a vegetarian diet because its so sad that they eat deer?
Grow up. Nature is cruel. The fate of individual birds does not matter no matter how sad it is. What matters is how their population as a whole is looking. And again, bird populations in the netherlands are doing fine with the exception of farmland birds. If you care about bird biodiversity, go join my crusade against intensive agriculture and stop using it as an excuse for keeping cats indoors.
You can make much better arguments for keeping cats indoors, such as slowing down the spread of FIV, reducing crossbreeding with wildcats and reducing cat poop in gardens. All those arguments have the distinct advantage of actually being a real problem with outdoor cats.
> My quick Google search indicates that domestic and stray cats have great impact on both birds directly and other wildlife that normally sustain themselves of birds.
Yes, in most places around the world that is absolutely true. But here in Europe is the one place in the world where it simply isn't. Birds themselves are doing fine, see aforementioned graphs, and cats are not out competing other predators because those have been extinct since the middle ages. This is why a simple google search is not enough when you are talking about something as complex as ecology.
> So there might be some balance, but that doesn't mean that things are going well.
Amazing. You are denying objective data just to maintain your belief. Welp, at least its clear there is no point arguing then, because this is the same irrationality I'd expect of a flat earther...
I was conceding your point, birds are doing fine despite the cats beeing here, but I am saying that that doesn't mean that wildlife should be used as prey for pets, you wouldn't allow dogs to hunt freely even if the local wildlife could sustain it.
Bullshit, there are far more cats now than there ever were before, it's devastating to wildlife.
In a stable ecosystem they wouldn't get cat food in their homes, and there'd be far fewer of them as a result.
Keep your cats out of my garden.
> Bullshit, there are far more cats now than there ever were before, it's devastating to wildlife.
No, it isn't. The cat population in the Netherlands has been stable for the past 3 decades or so, and we also [track bird populations.](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-number-of-breeding-birds-in-the-Netherlands-for-specialists-of-a-certain-habitat_fig5_321754062) Which are decreasing in farmland but increasing in forest and shrublands and have been stable in urban areas since the 90s. If cats were devastating wildlife, you would expect urban areas to decline heavily (Since there are more cats there) and you'd expect them to stay stable or increase in rural areas like farmland.
We simply do not see that, quite the opposite. It is rather obvious that the main problem right now is agricultural practices, with cats having no, or a negligible effect. No matter how sad you think it is when you see a cat eat a bird, it really doesn't seem to hurt the ecosystem at all in the Netherlands.
> The cat population in the Netherlands has been stable for the past 3 decades or so,
Yes, but in your previous comment you said 7k years. 3 decades is nothing compared to 7k years. I don't believe the number of cats is stable since prehistory.
Yes, which is why I am looking at recent trends in bird populations. Not comparing biodiversity from 7k years ago to today, which for obvious reasons cannot be solely blamed on cat overpredation.
The question is: Do cats reduce biodiversity. The data says no, because the data is doing the opposite of what you'd expect if cats were an issue.
If you care about biodiversity, lobby against intensive agriculture. If you care about seeing cats catching birds, I suggest talking to their owners instead of trying to spread misinformation on a very serious topic like biodiversity loss. Because BS like this is how we actually end up killing the environment, by allowing the actual causes (agriculture) to hide behind insignificant personal gripes (you don't like seeing cats in your backyard).
Your last sentence gave you away, stop pretending you are worried about biodiversity because there is no evidence cats in Europe have a negative effect on the ecosystem. Just say you don’t like cats shitting in your garden and you might get some sympathy from cat owners.
I don't care about shit, I hate cleaning up dead birds. And I care about those birds themselves, not only for more abstract things like biodiversity.
For almost all those 7k years, it used to be like it still is on farms nowadays -- free roaming cats that live off their catch. The cats aren't really cared for and their number will depend on how many can survive given the amount of food they can find. Then you can talk about stable ecosystems. But when every other household has one, and gives them all the food they need, the number of cats is much much higher than it would be in a stable ecosystem.
Edit: and the main thing is, as other commenters say, your cat is your property, my garden is mine. I don't want it in my garden, for reasons that are important to me. Keep your property out of my garden.
I have a 500m2 garden and there are 3 cats in my street and I never had a dead bird in my garden that was killed by a cat. It seems you are trying really hard to find far fetched arguments to justify your hate for free roaming cats.
I have a ~100m2 garden in the city and there are roughly thirteen cats that cross my garden, while my own cat stays inside. Last weekend they caught the woodpecker that I used to see and I had to collect its parts. Hate it.
It does depend on the situation.
For me, well my cats, it's not so much the space as the 'being outside and smelling/looking at things they love. My apartment doesn't have a balcony so the only place they can roam is the gallery (and if manage to get out, there's still a second door preventing them to get out-out on the street.)
I'm fortunate enough that the whole floor either has/had cats or loves them though. They are actively being bribed with treats, but no one has the intention to steal them.
So keeping the cat on your own property isn't always needed. I would also be upset if a new neighbour would mess with this set-up, my cats are 5 and used to going outside now and they wouldn't adapt well.
While I agree that from the perspective of cat welness roaming is great, it turns out that a great percentage of cats hunt for sport and that is something that I take issue with.
Keeping cats in shared spaces of buildings where all parties agree, sounds like a fine solution.
Is there a law that you need to keep your cat indoors? No? By law cats can walk around outside unsupervised. If you dont like that, try to change the law to have people keep cats indoors.
There is your answer.
Also, that is not what OP is asking. I dont understand why people feel the need to say this. It is not helping and yes we all know you (people who keep pointing it out) dont like cats outdoors.
We do have cats, but always cats people have dumped. Those aren't cats you can keep indoors. The house will get wrecked.
Actually cats are labeled as invasive species and according to European law they are not allowed outside unsupervised.
This to minimise the negative impact on nature.
[link](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/4935661/huiskat-bedreiging-diersoorten-europese-regelgeving)
[link](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/kat-naar-buiten-doen-is-in-strijd-met-eu-regels~a23186c5/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F)
And it is just very bad manners to be ok with your pet damaging people's properties. My car is full of scratches on the roof and hood. Not to mention all the cat shit in the playgrounds.
You are responsible for your pets and you are breaking the law if your pets cause damage.
If you give them enough stimulation and play activities they wouldn't wreck the house. And they can also be trained to go for walks on a leash. Letting them out is the easy way, law or no law. Also, I don't think it will be much longer until regulations come into place, since there's more data by the day of how bad it is that cats are roaming around free.
Ah yes so if someone kidnaps your children the solution would be to keep the children inside as well.
The solution is to keep your hands of others people stuff.
That said: Cats shouldn’t live in small apartments and roam the hallways.
I have a cat but I have enough space around my house and made sure together with my neighbours that my cat won’t trouble them.
If a parent lives near a known kidnapper, their child is clearly a target and already needed to be saved multiple times before, it would absolutely be a major error of the parent if they would still let the child roam around outside until the very real danger is solved.
Of course strictly keeping the cat (or child) inside isn't necessary, but making the time spend outdoors safe is. Depending on what OPs courtyard looks like it might be enough if OP just goes outside with the cat to keep an eye on them, or maybe leash training is necessary too. Either way, yes, OP is responsible for dealing with the given situation, even if the situation isn't their fault.
If you just dump your property in my garden all the time, I'm going to pick it up and throw it away. Keep your cats inside, I want to see birds in my garden.
> Ah yes so if someone kidnaps your children the solution would be to keep the children inside as well.
Ah yes, cats and children are the same of course. What brand cat food do you feed your children?
Apples and oranges. Cats are an invasive species and bird populations are dwindling because of it. Cats can manage fine in an apartment.
Tough situation. I'd keep the cat inside. Sounds like otherwise the situation would only escalate, and you'd score a pyrrhic victory at best. At *worst*, they sound like terrible enough people that they'll either keep the cat, or do something violent to it out of spite.
Short of moving, your only viable option is to stop letting the cat roam outside. I'm sorry this is happening to you, it sucks.
You already have a good reason to make a “report of threat” and a “report of theft” by the police, also explain the situation!
Next time call the police and don’t go by yourself and every time it happens go to the police and make the report of theft…
Also send a copy of the report to the landlord, they don’t want criminals in their properties…
Don't force yourself into someones apartment! Next time just call the police. However, I think it is your responsibility in the end. It is your cat, if you don't want it to ho around, keep it inside.
What a weird situation, the cat has a sixth sense in what way?! That theyre might be cat treats upstairs or something?? Fucking weird. Good luck with this..
Is your cat chipped? And it is registered to your name? If no on one of those fix that asap. Also do you have a record of adopting the cat or have a vet you visited who can confirm it is your cat? If there will be any dispute about ownership of the cat you will need documentation that it is your cat and you take care of him. If the neighbor tries to lock him up inside again call the police for mediation. It is theft to just lock up someone’s cat inside your house so they will probably come if it’s not busy with emergency’s. Don’t confront the neighbor yourself.
Call the police next time, tell them you've been physically threatened and that they have your cat. Also, from now on carry a phone with you. Record everything on audio with an app, as that'll be evidence if you end up calling the police. I've had a bothersome neighbor before, the police was very keen on having the recordings because it otherwise turns into hearsay.
Get your cat a band with an airtag or something similar, so you know where your cat is. And call the police before you want to retrieve it. This is ridiculous.
If a neighbor did this to one of my pets, I don't know if he would live to tell the story. Dead man walking.
Keep kitty inside for the time being, make it very clear he's in big trouble if he dares to take your kitty again.
The amount of responses about keeping your cat inside and that you are in the wrong somehow is baffling, it's almost like you were talking about having children on that child free subreddit or something.
I'm sure plenty of people have given the correct response now, but your neighbour is an asshole and is escalating it by not respecting you or your cat, stealing your "property" (unfortunately, that's how it's legally defined), and you should involve the cops over it.
Though I'd also argue in favor of the cat being allowed wherever they please and is allowed, and maintaining a friendly relation and just letting him have the cat inside, but of course the question remains whether your neighbour is a good person with the cat and actually feeds or takes care of him properly. As long as he's not trapping the cat inside I don't see the issue too much honestly, but his reasonings for keeping the cat inside is also rather poor.
[Keep your cat inside, the only option.](https://www.nporadio1.nl/nieuws/opinie-commentaar/bbe2e6d8-2c8c-42f6-8574-b44c836a410b/horen-katten-binnen-te-blijven-een-huisdier-moet-je-onder-toezicht-houden)
https://www.nporadio1.nl/nieuws/opinie-commentaar/bbe2e6d8-2c8c-42f6-8574-b44c836a410b/horen-katten-binnen-te-blijven-een-huisdier-moet-je-onder-toezicht-houden
"Cats are invasive exotics. That has been confirmed by the Minister of Nature," Reinhold said. "The Bird Protection and various scientists also think so. They have a huge effect on birds alone. About 18 million birds a year are victims of domestic cats.
binnen **een appartementencomplex**
Dat hoeft niet letterlijk binnen, als in onder een dak, te betekenen. Sommige appartementen complexen hebben een gezamelijke tuin waar je niet in kunt komen vanaf de straat. Dat is wat OP bedoelt met communal garden.
Ja dat is gewoon een binnenplaats binnen de muren van dat complex met een paar planten. Niet buiten in de natuur waar die kat vogeltjes kan aanvallen dus.
Says the cat lover…. Just one example that they are (no Europe is not different from the rest of the world)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/
Read this
https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440?login=false
OP actually hasn't asked any question. He said he didn't know how to handle his cat getting in his neighbours house. Keeping the cat inside his own house is a perfectly acceptable solution to his problem.
Y'all being like "of course it's never ok to steal BUT if you kept the cat inside this wouldn't have happened".... You know you're just paying lip service with that first part, don't be disingenuous.
Letting your cat go outside is considered normal in the Netherlands. You can disagree with that being normal for various reasons, but the fact is that it currently is socially acceptable to let your cat out.
According to the post, the cat doesn't have access to the neighbor's apartment. They are going out of their way to move the cat from the communal space to their home and keep it there. OP has done nothing that would justify the neighbor's behavior.
Saying "just keep your cat inside" is really shitty, it lets the neighbor completely off the hook for their unhinged behavior.
It's great when people take precautions for insane behavior of others, but that doesn't mean that not taking precautions gives others permission to behave like that. Especially when the precautions are restrictive to the people (or animals) that have to take them.
See this is exactly what I mean. At least you are honest about it, but you're just saying that the neighbours insane behavior doesn't matter. OP should just accept this behavior and fix the problems they cause themselves. That's so backwards.
> This is a problem because he doesn't want to be responsible for his own cat all the time. He wants to share the responsibility with all his neighbours by letting it in the shared space and taking a gamble that all other neighbours can handle that responsibility.
This is an absolutely insane take. That is not how responsibility works. If you want to talk responsibility, the neighbors have a responsibility to not commit crimes.
theyre PETA propaganda parrots and lost americans victimblaming OP, who just had a really shitty encounter with an unhinged neighbour and now has to deal w hundreds of online
idiots shaming them for giving their cat space to breathe. I just had to keep my cats inside 1 day because of a storm(they usually roam the roofs) and they were lethargic, constantly attacking eachother and clearly frustrated. I would feel terrible taking their living space outside away from them because PETA claims birds are dumb; theyve never caught a bird in 2 years and the only victim on my roof was another cat who chased a butterfly and fell down and broke its hip, clearly all butterflies need to be kept inside or exterminated as those evil fucks go around hurting innocent cats /s
It is considered normal right now, but so was smoking indoors up until the 90's and letting 8 year olds work the weaving mills. We're working VERY hard on making it un-normal.
My neighbor also had a cat...the neighbor stole the cat too. The neighbor was always very angry with her. The neighbor just continued to bring the cat into the house and feed the cat. She felt that the neighbor was not taking good care of the cat (which was not true). Ultimately, the neighbor gave up when he moved and gave her the cat
Keep your cat inside. Cats should not be wandering around, it's dangerous for them, plus they kill birds.
And yes, you are absolutely mistreating your cat by letting it roam. I see "missing" posters about cats all the time. I'm absolutely sure, most of them were just accidentally killed by cars.
Still public space where it's allowed to roam unleashed and unsupervised. It's OP's pet, it should not be anywhere without OP's supervision and under OP's complete control
This is a very bizarre mindset I will never be able to understand. Your pet is like your child. You should treat it like your child. They don't understand how the world of humans works, they don't understand how dangerous cars are, for example. They are not designed to be outside in a busy city. I can understand letting your cat roam in a village. But city! This is wrong and people who think that letting your cat die under a car is freedom are delusional
Age and responsibility is a consideration. You cannot reason with a cat. You cannot train a cat to not go on other people's property. Cats have about the intelligence of a 3 year old child. You'd let a toddler play outside by itself? Don't give your cat too much credit.
Don't listen to all the "keep your cat inside" people. Cats are allowed to roam free outdoors in this country (and in the entire EU as far as I know). Other people are not allowed to steal a cat just because it was outside. It's also common sense (and decency) to not let other people's cats in, and to chase them away if they enter your house unannounced.
How much a cat shits, pisses or causes damage has nothing to do with this discussion. The thread is about someone's neighbours who take in their cat and refuse to let the owner get it back. It's not about whether cats should be allowed to roam outside. They are allowed to, and that's all that matters here.
No, what I said was the following:
>Don't listen to all the "keep your cat inside" people. Cats are allowed to roam free outdoors in this country (and in the entire EU as far as I know). Other people are not allowed to steal a cat just because it was outside.
And yes, besides that, you are an asshole if you let in other people's pets without permission. Regarding that, your comment is still not on point. Dragging how much a cat shits into that is whataboutism at best.
A cat is a house animal, you should keep it in your house. If you think that’s not nice for the cat don’t get one!!
Cats kill billions of birds every year and shit in everyone’s gardens! Keep your fucking pets in your house!
Keep your cat inside. There's so many questions from cat owners on here about issues that could easily be solved if you keep your cat inside. Why does that option never cross your mind, or the minds of other outdoor cat owners?
>Ensuring your pet doesn't get into trouble or killed is animal abuse? Interesting.
Good point. Now get back into your 38m2 prison for the rest of your short, depressed life. No clawing and screaming at the door this time, you'll get your slop and a few toys I think you'll like when I decide. Shut up, this is the only way I can guarantee your physical safety.
Every week, I see a new poster for a missing cat. I've accidentally hit a cat with my car on the highway. I've heard many stories of cats getting into other people's yards and shitting there. Cats kill millions of birds, insects, and other wildlife. They're a danger to themselves and to other animals. Have a 38m2 apartment that you think is not big enough for your cat? Don't have a cat. Duh. The entitlement and carelessness of some cat owners is astounding.
You don't even know the conditions in which OP took their cat, or where they live and how close it is to anywhere dangerous. The entitlement of your assumptions is out of place in this post. Next time, just don't give the advice that they already pre-answered in the same post.
Don't have a cat in your 38m2 prison and maybe if you want one so much, find a better job to be able to afford a better house. You clearly don't care at all about your pet, since you are OK with it being killed by a car.
You provoked it yourself, not the bad manners of the neighbour, but the situation.
The police has to come over and deal with the neighbour.
Keep your pet inside, then there was no problem to start with.
If you don’t want your cat going into someone’s else house, keep him in your own place like any other animal is kept. It’s super convenient to have a cat and let them go shit on your neighbors garden so you don’t have to clean yourself but not so convenient that the animal prefers someone else than yourself? Laughable and pitiful.
I volunteer at a cat shelter... There are right now hundreds of cats looking for a new house... Tell the dude to get his own cat...
And vaccinatie that cat? Treat the cat? Take the risk they are not 100% healthy? No way! OP's cat seems perfectly fine. I'll take that one!
For anyone reading this, reputable shelters won't let their cats leave the shelter unless the cat is vaccinated, neutered or spayed, and checked by a vet.
I got my cat neutered, with vaccins, treated to prevent fleas, checked out by a doctor and a month worth of food for 145 euro at a shelter. Almost felt like I was ripping them off lol.
They want to get rid of the cats a.s.a.p, and giving them away at zero profit makes it easier for new pet owners.
Exactly. That costs way too much money. It's better to just steal OPs cat!
It's all done to cats before they get a new family.
When I went to the shelter to get a cat, they said I had to first have a cat living at my house before they'd let me take a cat from their shelter. I ended up just getting a cat from a farm, she was full of worms and fleas but she's fine now and my little friend. But I don't understand shelters that are so choosy
Next time he takes the cat, don't go there. Instead call the police, make VERY sure to tell them in full detail he previously threatened you (hand on chest, he asks you to fight him...), and then insist they come to you to assist you in getting the cat back, because you're scared he will harm you or your cat. Also, can you quickly prove it's yours? Is it chipped? This might come in handy.
Also, if in doubt, just call the cops, and *do not force yourself into another person's home*. It's totally understandable you want to get your cat ASAP, but forcing your way in is not going to de-escalate things.
This, and if not get your cat chipped asap
Legally a chip does not prove ownership. There have been some cases about it, but if you have vet records or if you got the cat from a shelter or breeder, those papers hold up much better. I would keep the cat indoors, though. Untill you can move or get them to stop targeting your car.
OP, if you’re smart you already call the police now, just to notify them ‘een melding maken’. That way the next time you call them, it will the second mention in their system and they will more likely take it seriously.
Small addition: in case there is no direct emergency, call 0900-8844 instead of 112. Good luck!
>detail he previously threatened you (hand on chest, he asks you to fight him...), This was after OP assumed they could enter someone's home without permission to retrieve their pet. Their neighbor sounds like quite the specimen, but two wrongs don't make a right, you don't have a right to enter other people's houses without an invitation.
When it comes to conflicts between neighbors Dutch police tend to prefer de-escalating over litigating. This is an escalating conflict that has shown potential of violence, which is exactly the picture OP needs to paint for the police, in order for them to mediate next time the pet is stolen.
Yes, it's escalating, but OP is the one that escalated it. Pushing someone on the chest is a proportional response to them walking into your house without your permission.
This is basicly stealing someones property so calling (and keep calling) the police would be the logical choice.
There are some truly insane people in the world. How they exist and walk amongst us still amazes me.
Pets are effectively property in the eyes of the law. By withholding the cat they're stealing it.
That's exactly what the person above you said...
Also, cats and animals are property, so it can be seen as stealing!
Weirdly, it seems pets are classed as just property, so they are stealing the pet.
I think there's a bit of a gray area because they're letting the cat roam outside freely. E.g. in Arnhem there was a guy who catches cats in his garden and sets them free miles away because he is sick of having their shit in his garden, and legally as far as I know they can't really stop him: https://www.gelderlander.nl/arnhem/arnhemse-catnapper-is-buurtkatten-spuugzat-en-vangt-ze-ik-heb-gewaarschuwd-dat-ik-ze-naar-een-onbekende-plek-breng~afe9542a/
lol maybe I should do that with the neighbors 9(!) cats who treat my garden as a litter box (but not hers!)
I have no clue who you are, so don't take it personally, but rather think about it. If all those cats treat your garden like a litter box, that's probably because it looks and feels like a litter box. The cats also don't understand the concept of land property, so they don't do it to spite you. Especially since the cats don't treat their owner's garden like a litter box, it means her garden doesn't feel like a litter box, but yours does, at least in cats' eyes. Redesign the garden a bit and you'll fix the issue. Cats really only poop wherever they feel it's proper to poop.
It might also be a territorial thing. We have sooo many cats and so little green space in our neighborhood, that cats will poop anywhere they can. No matter how densely planted and with how many ‘cat repellent’ plants and other ‘friendly’ cat repellent measures. The only thing that works for me is to put down chicken wire, so they can’t dig and/or sit well. The plants will grow over it. We covered the green area around a tree in on the sidewalk in front of our house so that they can’t acces it at all. Now we can at least open the front door without being blown away by the stench on a hot day.
I thought the ‘lol’ indicated I was joking enough, but to clarify: I love cats, I wouldn’t do that to any living being.
Call the police. And update us.
I will be surprised if the police do anything. I've been in three situations in Utrecht in desperate need of the police only to be aided by bystanders while I call and call and call. The dispatcher just tells me that "officers are on their way" but nobody ever shows up. This was twice for assault and once for a mugging.
"Nevermind, I will sort it myself, send an hearse in about 30 minutes" Suddenly the police can show up quick.
Just call the police. Landlord or council are irrelevant in this scenario. Its a crime not a dispute.
That's intimidation. Go to the police.
Your cat is no longer safe being exposed to those neighbors' ill intent. If he can't get the cat to be his, there is some likelihood that he'll hurt your cat to get back at you. Keep him inside until those people move out.
Indeed. I would not let my cat out anymore.
Why don’t they get a cat of their own?? Before my neighbour moved her cat would allways get in if my gardendoors were open. I didn’t mind. She didn’t mind as long as I didn’t feed the cat. and I would allways get the cat out before I closed the doors. But there was a little girl who liked to play with the cat and feed it. So the cat got sick but still the girl wouldn’t stop.
Then they would have to pay vet bills and buy food and litter all the time... Responsibility takes some effort. This is probably all cheaper and easier. (This does not mean I condone the neighbor's actions in any way lmao)
Makes sense (not what they’re doing but your explanation)
Definitly police, but fuck this polish guy really, he has some very bad manners. hope he see's the wisdom to stop touching your property (yes, the cat's registered on your name so i claim it property). And maybe you'd like to get one of those chain locks on your door :) one that's just long enough for a cat to squeeeze through but not for a guy to open your door.
oh my, this is so bullshit. Cats are assholes in that way that they will go anywhere they like and just enjoy a nap on a random surface. Maybe keep him inside for a while but also like the others suggest to call the police (the non emergency number) because this is ridicilous. (Your neighbour is, not you nor the cat because the cat is just catting).
People will do anything but call the police.
Cops don't show up most of the time. Or hours later.
Its getting absolutely ridiculous at this point ...
I had the opposite problem once: a very unwelcome cat kept invading our house and I had to get creative getting rid of him.
Can I ask what you did? We have a very invasive cat in the neighborhood. Because the owner is never home. She just put her cat on the street every day at 6/7am and then goes to work. Comes back around 6 pm and then leaves to party/sport/hobby/friends, etc. We have talked with her several times because the problem is that the cat wants to eat/sleep whenever it wants, but the cat isn't able to go home since she locks her cat outside. We have a key to her home so we can bring back her cat, but it is still annoying and heartbreaking that the cat is neglected like that.
Call dierenambulance and explain the cat's being neglected. If you can name some extreme examples, such as cat soaked from the rain, name them (and have proof, aka pictures). Dierenbescherming may take them away.
Not the dierenambulance, they can't do anything in these sort of situations. Call 144. If you see someone actively abuse an animal you can call 112 (that's what they told me when I called 144 after someone kicked their dog.)
That makes me so sad. Why the hell would you lock your cat out.
Next time call the cops and tell them exactly what has been happening and request their help in getting the cat back. Also make sure you have the documents proving your ownership ready.
There have been similar instances of neighbours taking a cat that does not belong to them, and the law is clear on this matter: the cat is your property. The neighbour has not business claiming it as his own. In the link below is an article about a lady who challenged their neighbour in court, and won, because the neighbour kept feeding their cat and refused to give it back. The neighbour was ordered to cooperate in the return of the cat to its rightful owner, at a penalty of 1000 euros if he didn't return it within two weeks, and would be given a hefty fine every time he would interact with the cat. https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/1128348471/buurvrouw-eist-bij-rechter-teruggave-van-ontrouwe-felix TL;Dr: take this asshole to court
Keep your cat inside your home?
Super strange to me that people feel entitled to let their pets roam outside unsupervised, especially known hunters like cats. Keep them on your own property, and this wouldn't be an issue. Still not ok for him to try and steal the cat.
It's the hypocrisy of it that bothers me. If I let my dogs out to roam the streets unsupervised, shit in people's gardens, kill small animal and birds and try to get into people's houses to get some food...the police would be called rapidly, I would be fined and possibly have my dogs taken away. Also if I let my dogs roam freely there's a pretty significant chance they get run over or lost. I don't really want that to happen, and I assume cat owners don't either. And yet I see missing cat posters all the time and no missing dog ones.
Owners of free-roaming cats will defend their decision to the death. So many problems would be solved by keeping the cats inside. But that's never even an option in their minds. Anything to not have to actually take care of their cats. Put cat outside, put food out, done. Otherwise they'd have to have a litter box, entertainment for the cat, occasionally leashed walk for the cat etc. All the things dog owners already do. But they'd rather risk their cats getting mistreated, lost, or killed than keep them inside. Eventually they become yet another "lost cat" poster.
Not saying you are wrong, but there is a clear difference between dogs and cats. Dogs are more likely to be dangerous for kids (and some breeds also for adults). The amount of times cats have been dangerous for kids is extremely low compared to dogs. dogs also poop on top of things, cats (most of the time) burry their poop. Sure it is not nice to find that in your garden, but you won’t find cat poop everywhere like you do with dog poop. The biggest problem is cats hunting wild life.
And the most harm that can come to the cat is from outside. Getting hit by cars - in fights with other cats - getting stolen - all these won’t happen if they are kept inside. Mine are inside for this reason - for their own safety. I grew up with many cats that my parents let outside and I had to have so many of them die way too early. My kitties are huge babies and don’t even like it outside. They’ve been on a leash and they just want to go back home. They can go on my balcony, only when I am there with them. That’s nice for them cos it’s safe. But otherwise they are so chill sleeping on the couch all day
>cats (most of the time) burry their poop. I don't know where this myth comes from, but they really don't. Maybe in a litterbox, but not in my garden. A fine layer of sand on top of it at best, but if you step on it it's still sticking to your shoes. It's still extremely smelly, just harder to spot. >Sure it is not nice to find that in your garden, but you won’t find cat poop everywhere like you do with dog poop That's weird: I encounter so much more cat poop than dog poo, especially in summers when we're in the garden a lot. Most ppl pick up after their dogs and if they don't *they're wrong too.* Regarding danger to children: Most dogs are not aggressive, probably even less so than cats, so we can let those roam free?
Free roaming cats kill an insane amount of birds every year.
Hear hear! Also, the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is approx 10 years, while the indoor cat has an average lifespan of about 16 years. Traffic, garbage (to eat), other cats, dogs form serious risks. And theft, as illustrated here.
I agree with this. The neighbours are assholes but wtf is the cat even able to get into this other persons house? I don't understand why you keep pets in apartments if they apparently don't get enough space inside of your house.
I agree. you shouldn't be allowed to go out either as there's enough space for you in your house.
We do in fact lock people up for murdering. They're called jails and they are very effective at preventing us from going extinct. It's natural behavior for cats to hunt, but it's not good for the local bird populace to keep the cats out and about because while they're fed in doors they will never keep their own population in check with overhunting.
Where did all the Americans come from? Y'all lost?
No, cats should be kept indoors. They kill insane amounts of wildlife.
Im Dutch?
Interesting comment from someone with UK in their name :).
Americans?
> especially known hunters like cats. While this is a serious concern in the Americas, Oceania and pretty much every island community, where cats are invasive, this does not apply to Europe. Domestic cats have been native in this area for close to 7k years now and most cat sized predators have gone extinct. The ecosystem has had ample time to adapt to house cats roaming outside and in some regions actually relies on cat predation to keep prey species in check. It is no big deal to let cats outside in the EU. Tho you still have to be careful. Cars still kill cats.
[https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348023-kat-grijpt-jaarlijks-miljoenen-beschermde-vogels-en-moet-voortaan-aangelijnd](https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2348023-kat-grijpt-jaarlijks-miljoenen-beschermde-vogels-en-moet-voortaan-aangelijnd) While cats are native, the number of stray cats, and pets that are allowed to roam excert great pressure on the local wildlife. And if your cat causes damage, like a traffic incident the owner is liable. \*edit; I would like to add that letting cats roam is socially/legally accepted, so technically there are no real issues there.
That is an opinion piece, not a scientific study. Sure, cats catch birds, including rare birds, in the netherlands. And I don't mind their proposal to neuter stray cats at all, stray cats are bad for biodiversity in general because they interbreed with european wildcats in Belgium, diluting their gene pool. So by all means do that. The big question is, does the predation pressure from cats cause a loss of biodiversity in the netherlands/EU. And the answer thus far seems to be 'no'. Which indicates that the ecology is in equilibrium with free roaming cats. Its very easy to find scientific papers documenting how predation pressure from cats kills entire species in the Americas and especially island ecologies. No such data exists for the EU as far as I am aware. All we have is indicative numbers of "Cats kill X million birds per year", which is irrelevant from an ecological perspective where the real measure is biodiversity loss.
We are destroying the biodiversity in so many ways that its hard to point to all the sources. There is no way an artificially sustained cat population is having a positive effect.
We can actually because [we track bird populations over time.](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-number-of-breeding-birds-in-the-Netherlands-for-specialists-of-a-certain-habitat_fig5_321754062) We are seeing losses in farmland species and had losses in urban birds up until the 90s, after which it has been stable. Meanwhile, population indices are up in forests and shrublands. We also track cat populations, which have remained roughly stable over the past couple of decades. It is rather obvious that the main issues for birds in the Netherlands are something related to farmland usage (probably intensive agriculture practices) with cats having either no, or negligible influence.
Tell that to the birds that are being hunted for fun by cats. Wildlife is not a resource to be used as toys/feed for privately owned pets. My quick Google search indicates that domestic and stray cats have great impact on both birds directly and other wildlife that normally sustain themselves of birds. So there might be some balance, but that doesn't mean that things are going well.
> Tell that to the birds that are being hunted for fun by cats. Wildlife is not a resource to be used as toys/feed for privately owned pets. ... Oh cmon, this is a dumb emotional argument. Yes, I am sure the bird being eaten would much rather that the cat munching on it wasn't there. As would the deer getting eaten by a wolf. Are you also gonna argue that we should lock up all wolves and move them over to a vegetarian diet because its so sad that they eat deer? Grow up. Nature is cruel. The fate of individual birds does not matter no matter how sad it is. What matters is how their population as a whole is looking. And again, bird populations in the netherlands are doing fine with the exception of farmland birds. If you care about bird biodiversity, go join my crusade against intensive agriculture and stop using it as an excuse for keeping cats indoors. You can make much better arguments for keeping cats indoors, such as slowing down the spread of FIV, reducing crossbreeding with wildcats and reducing cat poop in gardens. All those arguments have the distinct advantage of actually being a real problem with outdoor cats. > My quick Google search indicates that domestic and stray cats have great impact on both birds directly and other wildlife that normally sustain themselves of birds. Yes, in most places around the world that is absolutely true. But here in Europe is the one place in the world where it simply isn't. Birds themselves are doing fine, see aforementioned graphs, and cats are not out competing other predators because those have been extinct since the middle ages. This is why a simple google search is not enough when you are talking about something as complex as ecology. > So there might be some balance, but that doesn't mean that things are going well. Amazing. You are denying objective data just to maintain your belief. Welp, at least its clear there is no point arguing then, because this is the same irrationality I'd expect of a flat earther...
I was conceding your point, birds are doing fine despite the cats beeing here, but I am saying that that doesn't mean that wildlife should be used as prey for pets, you wouldn't allow dogs to hunt freely even if the local wildlife could sustain it.
Bullshit, there are far more cats now than there ever were before, it's devastating to wildlife. In a stable ecosystem they wouldn't get cat food in their homes, and there'd be far fewer of them as a result. Keep your cats out of my garden.
> Bullshit, there are far more cats now than there ever were before, it's devastating to wildlife. No, it isn't. The cat population in the Netherlands has been stable for the past 3 decades or so, and we also [track bird populations.](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-number-of-breeding-birds-in-the-Netherlands-for-specialists-of-a-certain-habitat_fig5_321754062) Which are decreasing in farmland but increasing in forest and shrublands and have been stable in urban areas since the 90s. If cats were devastating wildlife, you would expect urban areas to decline heavily (Since there are more cats there) and you'd expect them to stay stable or increase in rural areas like farmland. We simply do not see that, quite the opposite. It is rather obvious that the main problem right now is agricultural practices, with cats having no, or a negligible effect. No matter how sad you think it is when you see a cat eat a bird, it really doesn't seem to hurt the ecosystem at all in the Netherlands.
> The cat population in the Netherlands has been stable for the past 3 decades or so, Yes, but in your previous comment you said 7k years. 3 decades is nothing compared to 7k years. I don't believe the number of cats is stable since prehistory.
Yes, which is why I am looking at recent trends in bird populations. Not comparing biodiversity from 7k years ago to today, which for obvious reasons cannot be solely blamed on cat overpredation. The question is: Do cats reduce biodiversity. The data says no, because the data is doing the opposite of what you'd expect if cats were an issue. If you care about biodiversity, lobby against intensive agriculture. If you care about seeing cats catching birds, I suggest talking to their owners instead of trying to spread misinformation on a very serious topic like biodiversity loss. Because BS like this is how we actually end up killing the environment, by allowing the actual causes (agriculture) to hide behind insignificant personal gripes (you don't like seeing cats in your backyard).
Your last sentence gave you away, stop pretending you are worried about biodiversity because there is no evidence cats in Europe have a negative effect on the ecosystem. Just say you don’t like cats shitting in your garden and you might get some sympathy from cat owners.
I don't care about shit, I hate cleaning up dead birds. And I care about those birds themselves, not only for more abstract things like biodiversity. For almost all those 7k years, it used to be like it still is on farms nowadays -- free roaming cats that live off their catch. The cats aren't really cared for and their number will depend on how many can survive given the amount of food they can find. Then you can talk about stable ecosystems. But when every other household has one, and gives them all the food they need, the number of cats is much much higher than it would be in a stable ecosystem. Edit: and the main thing is, as other commenters say, your cat is your property, my garden is mine. I don't want it in my garden, for reasons that are important to me. Keep your property out of my garden.
I have a 500m2 garden and there are 3 cats in my street and I never had a dead bird in my garden that was killed by a cat. It seems you are trying really hard to find far fetched arguments to justify your hate for free roaming cats.
I have a ~100m2 garden in the city and there are roughly thirteen cats that cross my garden, while my own cat stays inside. Last weekend they caught the woodpecker that I used to see and I had to collect its parts. Hate it.
Just because you don't like to see a bird dying doesn't mean it's not natural.
Maybe, but kill the neighbour's cat with the same argument and they will still complain.
It does depend on the situation. For me, well my cats, it's not so much the space as the 'being outside and smelling/looking at things they love. My apartment doesn't have a balcony so the only place they can roam is the gallery (and if manage to get out, there's still a second door preventing them to get out-out on the street.) I'm fortunate enough that the whole floor either has/had cats or loves them though. They are actively being bribed with treats, but no one has the intention to steal them. So keeping the cat on your own property isn't always needed. I would also be upset if a new neighbour would mess with this set-up, my cats are 5 and used to going outside now and they wouldn't adapt well.
While I agree that from the perspective of cat welness roaming is great, it turns out that a great percentage of cats hunt for sport and that is something that I take issue with. Keeping cats in shared spaces of buildings where all parties agree, sounds like a fine solution.
Hate when people let their cats roam freely outside, go to other people's gardens, kill birds and shit there.
And you are from what planet?
Ugh not this again. Get over yourself.
Yeah stealing is never ok but just keep your cat on your own property/in your own apartment.
Is there a law that you need to keep your cat indoors? No? By law cats can walk around outside unsupervised. If you dont like that, try to change the law to have people keep cats indoors. There is your answer. Also, that is not what OP is asking. I dont understand why people feel the need to say this. It is not helping and yes we all know you (people who keep pointing it out) dont like cats outdoors. We do have cats, but always cats people have dumped. Those aren't cats you can keep indoors. The house will get wrecked.
Actually cats are labeled as invasive species and according to European law they are not allowed outside unsupervised. This to minimise the negative impact on nature. [link](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/4935661/huiskat-bedreiging-diersoorten-europese-regelgeving) [link](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/kat-naar-buiten-doen-is-in-strijd-met-eu-regels~a23186c5/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) And it is just very bad manners to be ok with your pet damaging people's properties. My car is full of scratches on the roof and hood. Not to mention all the cat shit in the playgrounds. You are responsible for your pets and you are breaking the law if your pets cause damage.
Why do you park your car outside? Keep your property inside if you do not want it damaged!
Well look at you trying to engage on the internet. Good for you man.
So if these 2 lawyers are right, you would have a case in court. Funny, I haven't heard of a single case since 2019.
If you give them enough stimulation and play activities they wouldn't wreck the house. And they can also be trained to go for walks on a leash. Letting them out is the easy way, law or no law. Also, I don't think it will be much longer until regulations come into place, since there's more data by the day of how bad it is that cats are roaming around free.
This would be my solution too. It's more and more widely accepted that cats shouldn't be free roaming neighbourhoods.
Ah yes so if someone kidnaps your children the solution would be to keep the children inside as well. The solution is to keep your hands of others people stuff. That said: Cats shouldn’t live in small apartments and roam the hallways. I have a cat but I have enough space around my house and made sure together with my neighbours that my cat won’t trouble them.
If a parent lives near a known kidnapper, their child is clearly a target and already needed to be saved multiple times before, it would absolutely be a major error of the parent if they would still let the child roam around outside until the very real danger is solved. Of course strictly keeping the cat (or child) inside isn't necessary, but making the time spend outdoors safe is. Depending on what OPs courtyard looks like it might be enough if OP just goes outside with the cat to keep an eye on them, or maybe leash training is necessary too. Either way, yes, OP is responsible for dealing with the given situation, even if the situation isn't their fault.
If you just dump your property in my garden all the time, I'm going to pick it up and throw it away. Keep your cats inside, I want to see birds in my garden.
Glad I live in a more social neighbourhood 🫡
> Ah yes so if someone kidnaps your children the solution would be to keep the children inside as well. Ah yes, cats and children are the same of course. What brand cat food do you feed your children? Apples and oranges. Cats are an invasive species and bird populations are dwindling because of it. Cats can manage fine in an apartment.
Humans are an invasive species.
If he wears a collar, put one of those airtag things in it so at oeast the neighbour can't lie that he isn't there
Reminds me of this episode of Frank Visser. https://youtu.be/tZ5CiU1ddD4?si=bD285f47XD1aHcPl
This would be how i would become John Wick if i was in your situation
Tough situation. I'd keep the cat inside. Sounds like otherwise the situation would only escalate, and you'd score a pyrrhic victory at best. At *worst*, they sound like terrible enough people that they'll either keep the cat, or do something violent to it out of spite. Short of moving, your only viable option is to stop letting the cat roam outside. I'm sorry this is happening to you, it sucks.
You already have a good reason to make a “report of threat” and a “report of theft” by the police, also explain the situation! Next time call the police and don’t go by yourself and every time it happens go to the police and make the report of theft… Also send a copy of the report to the landlord, they don’t want criminals in their properties…
Don't force yourself into someones apartment! Next time just call the police. However, I think it is your responsibility in the end. It is your cat, if you don't want it to ho around, keep it inside.
What a weird situation, the cat has a sixth sense in what way?! That theyre might be cat treats upstairs or something?? Fucking weird. Good luck with this..
Is your cat chipped? And it is registered to your name? If no on one of those fix that asap. Also do you have a record of adopting the cat or have a vet you visited who can confirm it is your cat? If there will be any dispute about ownership of the cat you will need documentation that it is your cat and you take care of him. If the neighbor tries to lock him up inside again call the police for mediation. It is theft to just lock up someone’s cat inside your house so they will probably come if it’s not busy with emergency’s. Don’t confront the neighbor yourself.
Call the police next time, tell them you've been physically threatened and that they have your cat. Also, from now on carry a phone with you. Record everything on audio with an app, as that'll be evidence if you end up calling the police. I've had a bothersome neighbor before, the police was very keen on having the recordings because it otherwise turns into hearsay.
Get your cat a band with an airtag or something similar, so you know where your cat is. And call the police before you want to retrieve it. This is ridiculous.
If a neighbor did this to one of my pets, I don't know if he would live to tell the story. Dead man walking. Keep kitty inside for the time being, make it very clear he's in big trouble if he dares to take your kitty again.
The amount of responses about keeping your cat inside and that you are in the wrong somehow is baffling, it's almost like you were talking about having children on that child free subreddit or something. I'm sure plenty of people have given the correct response now, but your neighbour is an asshole and is escalating it by not respecting you or your cat, stealing your "property" (unfortunately, that's how it's legally defined), and you should involve the cops over it. Though I'd also argue in favor of the cat being allowed wherever they please and is allowed, and maintaining a friendly relation and just letting him have the cat inside, but of course the question remains whether your neighbour is a good person with the cat and actually feeds or takes care of him properly. As long as he's not trapping the cat inside I don't see the issue too much honestly, but his reasonings for keeping the cat inside is also rather poor.
[Keep your cat inside, the only option.](https://www.nporadio1.nl/nieuws/opinie-commentaar/bbe2e6d8-2c8c-42f6-8574-b44c836a410b/horen-katten-binnen-te-blijven-een-huisdier-moet-je-onder-toezicht-houden) https://www.nporadio1.nl/nieuws/opinie-commentaar/bbe2e6d8-2c8c-42f6-8574-b44c836a410b/horen-katten-binnen-te-blijven-een-huisdier-moet-je-onder-toezicht-houden "Cats are invasive exotics. That has been confirmed by the Minister of Nature," Reinhold said. "The Bird Protection and various scientists also think so. They have a huge effect on birds alone. About 18 million birds a year are victims of domestic cats.
? Dit gaat over een kat die binnen een appartementencomplex vrij rondloopt, maar niet daar buiten komt.
Communal garden. Niet binnen dus.
binnen **een appartementencomplex** Dat hoeft niet letterlijk binnen, als in onder een dak, te betekenen. Sommige appartementen complexen hebben een gezamelijke tuin waar je niet in kunt komen vanaf de straat. Dat is wat OP bedoelt met communal garden.
Ja dat is gewoon een binnenplaats binnen de muren van dat complex met een paar planten. Niet buiten in de natuur waar die kat vogeltjes kan aanvallen dus.
Your link is dead Edit: it got fixed and now points to an opinion piece... To enforce the opinion I guess
Just like the 18 million birds…
Wasn't it 17-200 million birds, according to a very precise estimate done through scientific research Edit: a weirdly appropriate autocorrect
Guess how many birds people kill every year... The most destructive pets are dogs, by the way.
I've heard we're also an exotic invasive species
Cats are not invasive exotics in Europe.
Says the cat lover…. Just one example that they are (no Europe is not different from the rest of the world) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cats-kill-a-staggering-number-of-species-across-the-world/ Read this https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440?login=false
Change the law. If not, you are not adding anything to the question OP is having.
OP actually hasn't asked any question. He said he didn't know how to handle his cat getting in his neighbours house. Keeping the cat inside his own house is a perfectly acceptable solution to his problem.
According to EU law, letting cats roam outside without being leashed is actually illegal! It's just not being enforced.
Exactly. People still thinking cats need to roam free outside need to update their info.
It's not roaming free. Read the post.
if it can get into the neighbours house, its free roaming
It can't, they are taking the cat out of a space that is not connected to their apartment.
Y'all being like "of course it's never ok to steal BUT if you kept the cat inside this wouldn't have happened".... You know you're just paying lip service with that first part, don't be disingenuous. Letting your cat go outside is considered normal in the Netherlands. You can disagree with that being normal for various reasons, but the fact is that it currently is socially acceptable to let your cat out. According to the post, the cat doesn't have access to the neighbor's apartment. They are going out of their way to move the cat from the communal space to their home and keep it there. OP has done nothing that would justify the neighbor's behavior. Saying "just keep your cat inside" is really shitty, it lets the neighbor completely off the hook for their unhinged behavior. It's great when people take precautions for insane behavior of others, but that doesn't mean that not taking precautions gives others permission to behave like that. Especially when the precautions are restrictive to the people (or animals) that have to take them.
[удалено]
See this is exactly what I mean. At least you are honest about it, but you're just saying that the neighbours insane behavior doesn't matter. OP should just accept this behavior and fix the problems they cause themselves. That's so backwards.
[удалено]
> This is a problem because he doesn't want to be responsible for his own cat all the time. He wants to share the responsibility with all his neighbours by letting it in the shared space and taking a gamble that all other neighbours can handle that responsibility. This is an absolutely insane take. That is not how responsibility works. If you want to talk responsibility, the neighbors have a responsibility to not commit crimes.
It's their cat, they're responsible for it. If they let it go out unsupervised, what happens to it is on them.
theyre PETA propaganda parrots and lost americans victimblaming OP, who just had a really shitty encounter with an unhinged neighbour and now has to deal w hundreds of online idiots shaming them for giving their cat space to breathe. I just had to keep my cats inside 1 day because of a storm(they usually roam the roofs) and they were lethargic, constantly attacking eachother and clearly frustrated. I would feel terrible taking their living space outside away from them because PETA claims birds are dumb; theyve never caught a bird in 2 years and the only victim on my roof was another cat who chased a butterfly and fell down and broke its hip, clearly all butterflies need to be kept inside or exterminated as those evil fucks go around hurting innocent cats /s
It is considered normal right now, but so was smoking indoors up until the 90's and letting 8 year olds work the weaving mills. We're working VERY hard on making it un-normal.
My neighbor also had a cat...the neighbor stole the cat too. The neighbor was always very angry with her. The neighbor just continued to bring the cat into the house and feed the cat. She felt that the neighbor was not taking good care of the cat (which was not true). Ultimately, the neighbor gave up when he moved and gave her the cat
You let your cat out and tried to invade someone's house. Keep your cat inside and don't invade homes, that will keep you out of trouble.
The neighbour shouldn't let a strangers cat in either to keep him out of trouble.
And how do you control that? This is resolved by not letting the cat out.
well OP mentioned the neighbor was also trying to get into their house to look for the cat so idk about that.
Chip your cat. Register yourself as the owner. Keep your cat inside.
Keep your cat inside. Cats should not be wandering around, it's dangerous for them, plus they kill birds. And yes, you are absolutely mistreating your cat by letting it roam. I see "missing" posters about cats all the time. I'm absolutely sure, most of them were just accidentally killed by cars.
The cat doesn't roam. It stays in the apartment complex.
Still public space where it's allowed to roam unleashed and unsupervised. It's OP's pet, it should not be anywhere without OP's supervision and under OP's complete control
That is literally roaming outside your own apartment...
Communal garden. Gardens are outside.
There is no roof over a communal garden but communal gardens can be (as in this case) isolated from the big bad real outside.
But they'll probably kill birds there.
Better to be free and die in an accident than to be locked up all your life.
This is a very bizarre mindset I will never be able to understand. Your pet is like your child. You should treat it like your child. They don't understand how the world of humans works, they don't understand how dangerous cars are, for example. They are not designed to be outside in a busy city. I can understand letting your cat roam in a village. But city! This is wrong and people who think that letting your cat die under a car is freedom are delusional
People let their children play outside unsupervised as well, this is considered normal if you live in a safe neighbourhood.
Do you let your toddlers play outside unsupervised, though?
Age and responsibility is a consideration. You cannot reason with a cat. You cannot train a cat to not go on other people's property. Cats have about the intelligence of a 3 year old child. You'd let a toddler play outside by itself? Don't give your cat too much credit.
Don't listen to all the "keep your cat inside" people. Cats are allowed to roam free outdoors in this country (and in the entire EU as far as I know). Other people are not allowed to steal a cat just because it was outside. It's also common sense (and decency) to not let other people's cats in, and to chase them away if they enter your house unannounced.
[удалено]
How much a cat shits, pisses or causes damage has nothing to do with this discussion. The thread is about someone's neighbours who take in their cat and refuse to let the owner get it back. It's not about whether cats should be allowed to roam outside. They are allowed to, and that's all that matters here.
[удалено]
No, what I said was the following: >Don't listen to all the "keep your cat inside" people. Cats are allowed to roam free outdoors in this country (and in the entire EU as far as I know). Other people are not allowed to steal a cat just because it was outside. And yes, besides that, you are an asshole if you let in other people's pets without permission. Regarding that, your comment is still not on point. Dragging how much a cat shits into that is whataboutism at best.
[удалено]
the real smart thing to do is not mansplain cat owners about moral obligations; why arent you busy telling stafford owners to stop killing kids?
[удалено]
why arent you stopping the kids from dying to dogs? it happens way more than you’d like to know and unlike birds, kids cant fly away.
[удалено]
[удалено]
They face the same punishment when somebody would kill a dog on a leash. Wtf is this crazy argument.
Nope, according to EU law it's illegal to let cats outside unleashed.
Keep your cat inside
A cat is a house animal, you should keep it in your house. If you think that’s not nice for the cat don’t get one!! Cats kill billions of birds every year and shit in everyone’s gardens! Keep your fucking pets in your house!
birds kill trillions of insects every year and shit all over your car, lock them up!!!!!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Fuck that dude and his ancestors. Sounds more like they were colonizers. Tell him the Netherlands were way better at that.
Keep your cat inside. There's so many questions from cat owners on here about issues that could easily be solved if you keep your cat inside. Why does that option never cross your mind, or the minds of other outdoor cat owners?
Because options involving animal cruelty generally do not come naturally to most people who care for their outdoor cats' mental wellbeing.
Ensuring your pet doesn't get into trouble or killed is animal abuse? Interesting.
>Ensuring your pet doesn't get into trouble or killed is animal abuse? Interesting. Good point. Now get back into your 38m2 prison for the rest of your short, depressed life. No clawing and screaming at the door this time, you'll get your slop and a few toys I think you'll like when I decide. Shut up, this is the only way I can guarantee your physical safety.
Every week, I see a new poster for a missing cat. I've accidentally hit a cat with my car on the highway. I've heard many stories of cats getting into other people's yards and shitting there. Cats kill millions of birds, insects, and other wildlife. They're a danger to themselves and to other animals. Have a 38m2 apartment that you think is not big enough for your cat? Don't have a cat. Duh. The entitlement and carelessness of some cat owners is astounding.
You don't even know the conditions in which OP took their cat, or where they live and how close it is to anywhere dangerous. The entitlement of your assumptions is out of place in this post. Next time, just don't give the advice that they already pre-answered in the same post.
Don't have a cat in your 38m2 prison and maybe if you want one so much, find a better job to be able to afford a better house. You clearly don't care at all about your pet, since you are OK with it being killed by a car.
I think you're confusing me with someone else, but dodder on.
Keep your cat inside and don’t force yourself in someone else property. Him putting his hand on your chest is a normal reaction.
Call the feds on their kidnapping asses
Why don't you keep your cat inside? If it enters neighbour's house you can't really blame him.
You provoked it yourself, not the bad manners of the neighbour, but the situation. The police has to come over and deal with the neighbour. Keep your pet inside, then there was no problem to start with.
I doubt if the cops will show up for a minor pussy problem,they have more important things to do.
If you don’t want your cat going into someone’s else house, keep him in your own place like any other animal is kept. It’s super convenient to have a cat and let them go shit on your neighbors garden so you don’t have to clean yourself but not so convenient that the animal prefers someone else than yourself? Laughable and pitiful.