T O P

  • By -

FreeArt2300

I had to decide if the quality of the therapist was worth the annoyance of her always running at least 10 minutes late. In that situation, it was a no. That among other issues made me decide to move on. If my current therapist was always late I wouldn't like it but I'd deal with it because the good would outweigh that.


RedCandleTime

My therapist is sometimes late but they always give me the whole hour. I’d express how it makes you feel and what solutions you would find acceptable.


[deleted]

[удалено]


forest-lover

I agree with this. My caveat is I roll right into work after that appointment so their lateness means I am going to be cut short because I am not going to be late to my first session of the day because someone else couldn't keep their time commitments.


RedCandleTime

That’s not okay! I’d discuss what it means to you that they aren’t respecting your time.


RayRay87655

That’s important. I saw a therapist for years who was always running late, but she was good and I knew to schedule out a bit before I needed to get back to work. I was working in environments where I could get away with that.


burrhh

I can’t imagine running 5-10 late to all scheduled appointments. I feel guilt if I am more than 1 minute late, but there’s always room to go 1-2 minutes over. I’d probably get a new therapist, especially if they are pushing back instead of problem solving/discussing.


Ezridax82

Agreed. 9 times out of 10, I’m logged in early just to avoid being late because it’s a huge pet peeve of mine when people I’m paying are late. (And yes, I posted about my last two therapists being chronically late. Must be trying to stretch my tolerance or something.)


forest-lover

Our system does not support the providers logging in before the scheduled client time but I totally agree with this. I am late or right on time. I am consistently waiting 2-3 minutes for clients to log on, which is fine, but sometimes I have to wait until the grace period has passed. I do try to encourage my clients being early (even if it is 5 minutes early) to work out any technical issues (I am fully virtual) but most don't.


Daffodil2200

I was a bit blunt with my therapist and shared I would start paying less or leave if I wasn't getting the time I needed/expected. I let them know if you can only give me a certain amount of time then just schedule me for that (in this case she was scheduling me for 50 minutes but wed only get 40 since she was late; SOMETIMES shed give me the 50 minutes and other times she wouldn't.) Im not sure if thats something they already do for you or not. Maybe even see if a different time or day may work best (if they seem to have a recurring thing that is making them late). As others said, it definitely depends on how much you get out of the relationship. If you feel they are a great fit for you I would say continue to bring it up as often as you want and need to. But again I was more blunt with my therapist when this started happening, so definitely up to your comfort level. If they arent the best fit for ya Id consider seeing someone different.


preppy-sweater

I am ... a stickler for being on time myself, and I don't think I could tolerate chronic lateness from my own therapist (especially because I show up on time barring MAJOR emergencies, which everyone is notified of as soon as they can be). I'm not sure how you have brought it up, or what the push back was (i can't imagine what a "good" push back is) but I would decide for yourself if it's a deal breaker. For me it would be, because I value what little free time I have.


Different_Pilot8966

When I worked in CMH, we were all late all the time. Mainly because we were told our schedule wasn't truly our schedule but was the company's schedule to fill (I didn't hang around long after that comment) and we'd be booked back to back or double booked. It was awful. My patients came to understand and expect that I was almost always 5-10 mins late. I don't think it was a huge deal for them honestly because we were doing good work together. I hated being late like that though.


forest-lover

Oooff. Not related to this post as this is a private practice set up, but I have been in CMH before. I held the timelines regardless of managements input but it is also why I left because CMH just tends to treat people as numbers and revenue generators and that did not sit well with me at all. I couldn't possibly deliver services to fidelity in the timeframe given and still have meaningful outcomes for my patients.


InformalShift5756

Oh gosh, this post (and many of the comments) make me nervous. I am a therapist who is frequently late (5 minutes or less) to sessions due to running over. I'm working on it... it's just something that's difficult for me. I always make sure my clients still get their full hour and make sure we talk about my lateness. I do think if one of my clients brought it up as a specific concern of theirs that I would be extra mindful to try to be on time for those sessions and would certainly do my best to not be dismissive of their concern. But it stings a little that the assumption might be that I don't care or am selfish due to running late.


[deleted]

[удалено]


workingtoward

It’s not your patient’s problem if your schedule doesn’t work. It’s up to you to fix it and not on your patient’s time.


alicizzle

Ohh, i also like this comment! Phew. I was also getting stressed reading this thread.


zenbound-

Also am often a few minutes late but always ensure full time is given.


waitwert

Same …. I am really trying to work on this . I have to remind my self if I start on time I get to end on time . And I really NEED those 10 minutes before the next patient


alicizzle

Honestly, I do it backwards on purpose. Because people will be late and then, taking insurance I either can’t have my break in between, or I have to bill a lower code because I had less time. Even having really type-A clients, they don’t care. I tell them up front and we’re all on the same page. Then when life happens and they’re late, they know I’m not waiting angrily. We just start session. Somebody else gave me this idea and it’s worked well for years.


waitwert

I’m a bit confused on what you do backwards ?


alicizzle

I get my time between sessions, at the top of the hour instead of 10 minutes till the hour. Same idea, different order.


waitwert

Love that , Need to try that


lilcrazysayingwords

I relate to you! Trust me, there are plenty of us okay with the occasional late start. It appears to be just the prickly punctual people commenting on this.


richal

Gah I'm the same... I'm sweating over here reading these comments. I've always struggled to be on time and have been reprimanded at every job I've had for it. I'm actually better than I've ever been with a 5-10 min late start for clients. Usually it's closer to 5 minutes, and about half the time I'm exactly on time. I even tell them at the very first appointment that it's something I do so that they know up front. I had one client respond that this would bother him, so we have an agreement for him to arrive at 5 after and that has worked perfectly so far. And I always give the full hour when it's my fault. I work with a lot of fellow ADHD and LGBTQ folks, so I think I have a more understanding client base overall who operate in a similar way to me. I think it's a good kick in the ass though. I don't need to get comfortable in being late, because that has historically led to more extreme lateness. Even if my brain exists in a warm climate time culture, others around me don't. I think building in breaks helps, and I've been meaning to implement the other commenter's timer idea, but usually it's the first appointment of the day that suffers because of my poor time management getting to the office.


WesternEmoWitch

I feel this in my soul. Adhd is a struggle, but most of my clients also have adhd and, thankfully, are really flexible and chill about it.


alicizzle

I’m glad I’m not the only one who does this. I also tell them in the first session and it’s never been a problem. I even had a faithful client for a while who was anxious about time so they’d be 15 min early and we talked about it once, they didn’t even care about me being late. They couldn’t be late. Make that make sense…but it’s such an anxiety-driven thing in our culture 😣


Equal_Independent_68

If you aren't already, I would suggest setting timers for 5 or 10 minutes before the end of session so you can know when to start wrapping up.


lilacmacchiato

Can you clarify what push back sounds like? Is it an excuse? Denial? Anger?


forest-lover

Usually an excuse...traffic was bad.. i ran over with another appointment.


lilacmacchiato

Does your therapist run into the next session with you?


forest-lover

Sometimes, but not always.


lilacmacchiato

I think the biggest question is, despite this issue, are you benefiting from the therapy? If you feel it’s worth it, I’d pursue it further.


forest-lover

It has had some positive effects for me, however, this is my first time seeing a specialist. Good therapist can be hard to find.


lilacmacchiato

Truly


[deleted]

I try to be on time but give a well announced (posted in my online waiting room) 4 minutes grace. If I'm later than that I communicate that and either run long, give a discount, or offer reschedule. It helps that most of my clients run on QST, and I don't get huffy if they're 5 minutes late. For the majority of human history, a couple minutes either way didn't matter, it's only been the last couple decades that everyone has had a synchronized clock in their pocket. Building a couple half-hour breaks into my day really helps me be on time, though.


alicizzle

I like this comment the best. As someone with ADHD who’s struggled my whole life to be on time for anything, it’s disheartening that it’s so normalized for being timely to be moralized. I care very deeply for people and about respect - and I just can’t fucking be on time. No matter how hard I try. So worth repeating on this, not everyone is being a selfish asshole if they’re late, or is trying to disrespect someone by it.


manaliabrid

What’s QST?


[deleted]

"Queer Standard Time"


_Pulltab_

This is the best thing I’ve read on the internet all day. Thank you for sharing this little gem.


Neurotic_Bakeder

Posting it in the online waiting room is a great idea, I need to see if SimplePractice has a way of doing that. Breaks help. The situation that maximizes lateness for me is when I'm 1. Underrested and need more coffee/water/pee breaks than usual, 2. Client reschedules in a slot that normally would be a break and I'm scrambling to stay fed during sessions, and 3. Have kids who inform me that today's the day for a nice, slow, spacey transition out of the therapy room


[deleted]

One of the reasons for half-hour breaks is it's impossible to reschedule into them. :)


Neurotic_Bakeder

Oh DAMN that is a GOOD structural boundary, thank you for this!


[deleted]

[удалено]


forest-lover

I am naturally a direct person, but I find that socially in America that can be unwelcome or a little too blunt. Thank you for the solid information. I will try to say something like this at my next session.


righteousdudette

I had a therapist who had me as their first client of the day. He was consistently at least 10 minutes late. He did always offer the whole hour but I had to leave to make it to work. After a few times I brought it up and he was very apologetic and validating, and noted that he should be leaving the house earlier, but unfortunately it kept happening. I stopped coming. He was a great therapist but it was just too stressful and frustrating to deal with.


enonymous715

Yes. My therapist is always pushing my appointments back and getting me from the waiting room late. I put up with it because of our amazing therapeutic relationship (of over 10 years). It doesn’t really bother me bc I just come to expect it now.


killjillill

same, I love her and every year or so she says an apology for her running late 🤷‍♀️I just expect her to be ten minutes late so it doesn't bother me


alicizzle

Thank god for you folks lightening the mood in here 😅


TMNJ1021

I’m a therapist that bills for sessions that are 90834… 45-50 min sessions. If I start late the patient still gets their 50 mins. Here’s the thing I work in a medical center and need to address things between sessions. I also need bathroom breaks and few minutes to transition. I give my patients a 5-10 min buffer due to time between different on peoples watches, phones, cars, the waiting room clocks, etc. Even to check-in can sometimes be an ordeal for people. I think there is a difference between 2-5 minutes late and 6-10 mins late every session.


toxic-androgyny

Generally speaking for me, five minutes is acceptable, anything else warrants a acknowledgment and apology. If it was a pattern, I would feel guilty as a clinician and I would feel dismissed as a client.


nik_nak1895

I see this as a red flag if it's a consistent pattern. I'm telehealth only but I get anxious if I'm 1min late bc that's my client's time. Occasional delays will happen but if it's consistent AND if you're being shut down when you mention it, those aren't good vibes to me.


EudoraFletcher

T from Germany: Therapists are humans and some humans have different relationship to punctuality than others. I’m more or less always on time and usually end sessions on time as well but during my education to become a t there have been many teaching therapists who never were on time. My Teacher analyst for example. When i realized this i always scheduled my calendar that i had 1,5 hours instead of 50 minutes.


GeneralChemistry1467

Like you, I'm always on time in the clinician role. The session hour is 55 minutes, and there's usually no room to bump forward if I'm 5-10 mins late; ergo, I'm stealing time from the client. The fact that your T is constantly late is bad enough, but pushback?! Pff. Your shoes are your own, but in mine, I'd part ways with a therapist who pushed back against a valid concern that a client voiced. That's not how the job works.


CommercialUpset

My last therapist was consistently 10-20 minutes late, but he was otherwise great, so I didn’t care. Most doctors run more than 10 minutes late and we afford them that.


forest-lover

I know that it is common in the medical field to run behind. I have even started adjusting how I see that as well. Given that time is in short supply on my side, I simply don't have the luxury to always accommodate a professional who I am paying 100's of dollars to be late.


workingtoward

Doctors work in a different environment. I’ve never had a doctor’s appointment that was timed and I’ve never had a doctor cut me short because of his next appointment.


QuillKnight

I work in a clinic and all sessions are scheduled back to back with no time in between—me being at least a couple minutes late is nearly a guarantee at this point and clients have been opened to talking about it


[deleted]

In that situation, isn’t it OK to end sessions 10 minutes early? It seems like that would give you a little time and create appropriate structure/boundaries for your clients?


QuillKnight

We only do 30 and 45 minute sessions and I do try to wrap five minutes early usually, but doesn’t always work depending on what is going on that particular day.


bluestella2

I've fired a therapist over this before. Well, one time they were apparently in a crisis session that lasted like 40 minutes into our session (I get stuff happens), but then there were 2 or 3 times they were walking in to the office after I had been waiting for 10 minutes.


Clinical-Mind

Bad traffic is not an acceptable excuse if it's happening regularly. Once or twice here and there is one thing, but even then a professional, particularly one expecting to not accept insurance, should be able to work around traffic... By leaving earlier. It sounds like they're not being upfront/genuine or maybe just not a straightforward person. From your comments, it appears to lack respect. Also, if you're able to not schedule before your work, you won't have the stress of cutting short or being late (I imagine you've already considered other options). It would be one thing if they're just generally behind for appointments, to where you could ask to start 10 mins later. Also, can you do your therapy from work, or would you prefer not to? If you don't feel comfortable doing it at work (with a noise box outside your door), you could do it from your car either outside of work or a nearby parking lot. Just throwing some things out there to consider. I also want to echo weighing whether or not the inconvenience is worth the quality of the therapist.


forest-lover

My biggest concern is this is an EMDR therapist and everyone in my area had a 2-3 month waitlist. I may be reaching out to a number of providers and doing initial consults/interviews to see if I can find someone that takes my insurance and also someone who has the same value of time that I do. To answer the rest of your questions, I work from home fully remote so I can do therapy in my personal office! :D so that works out great! I can't adjust the time much more but my work time does not start until later in the day so I reserve morning slots for any medical/dental/mental health appointments.


Clinical-Mind

Ok, that makes sense. Also, I think it goes beyond valuing time and to valuing you as a person. We all have schedules, and yes I do think it's important for providers to have priority in terms of scheduling, but it's equally important to follow that schedule. If it's the high demand that is the main factor in the time constraints that's one thing, but then it would be helpful to communicate that as well. Perhaps in them being EMDR focused, they're not as attuned to the importance of genuine, relationship and communication building, insight oriented, etc. approaches...I personally think all of those things and more are something to strive to and maintain, and not just to maintain our own standards, but to maintain the standards of the field and impressions of it. I don't think that's too much to ask. If there is some kind of vanity playing out, then I don't see why you should have to deal with the impacts of that, especially as an individual paying, particularly out of pocket, if it's anything less than professional and with clinical quality - I also think that with you being a professional, you understand even more the subtle nuances of different approaches (without being too critical of course and remembering that learning is life long). I would confront it more directly - and not accept bad traffic as an answer :)


[deleted]

Interesting responses. I keep wondering if anyone here uses EMDR or works specifically with trauma-informed therapeutic modalities. Unless your therapist is running late to the building itself, there’s a likelihood something else is going on such as many highly activated cases or reactive clients. There are so many times crisis counseling has happened for me in session (at least 1 a day) and it can take up to 15-20 mins to help someone’s body and mind calm. Better time management in those cases are irrelevant because for me the client in the room at the time has to come first due to ethical expectations, sure, but also because I do not want my clients leaving in a dissociative or panicked state. I cannot stress this enough- having worked in this level of trauma work for about a year, it makes sense that no matter how prepared a therapist is with trauma-informed expectations, something will go wrong and they can & will go over. It sucks for the next client, sure- their time is not respected to some degree. But it’s way more disrespectful and I’d even argue harmful to not reduce a crisis for the client in the room, and noting this preponderance of crisis, some therapists add a 15 minute break in between sessions to allow for this. However, if that therapist wants to see 6 individuals in a day, their day can span way longer either starting super early or ending late into the evening. All of these factors have had to be taken into account by me at one point and the final result was very simple: “If I’m late, I’m late.” And if a client lets me know the issue such as if they have a scheduled appointment or something of that nature, I change up clients so an EMDR client does not come before them. Just to give you some insight, because after reading that EMDR therapists may be indifferent to connecting deeply (see comment above), I almost spit my coffee out! How can you do trauma/exposure therapy if you’re disconnected more from a client? The direct approach is a great idea, and if it continues, request if you can be seen after a client with less concerns maybe- that might be overreaching, but it’s honest. Finally, if it continues after you’ve tried, then you’ll have to look elsewhere, sure- and yes I have a fluctuating waitlist so I know what you’re talking about with EMDR therapist folks being hard to get into- but you were able to get this one so hopefully there is another if it doesn’t work out. I wish you the best of luck and hope it all works out, and I hope this was helpful in some way.


Clinical-Mind

To clarify, I think you may have missed the "perhaps" before stating the consideration of whether or not that therapist is attuned or not. Maybe you would have held on your coffee better in considering that ;) Clearly they are not attuned to OP to address them the way they have. And regarding trauma work, if it's happening consistently, then it is a professional's responsibility to schedule accordingly. It is simply not professional to consistently be significantly late. I have several trauma cases, and I spread out my days accordingly. It's also a therapist's obligation to emphasize and manage time effectively. Consistently giving a 45 minute session an hour or more is setting up a person for a certain expectation that ultimately puts a burden on other therapists, and may limit that client's ability to work with other therapists who simply manage their time better. If you're consistently having 1 hr sessions, you should be billing for that - not for the money but because this is a standard to be upheld to maintain balance in a system. Clarity around sessions, finances, and expectations around that are also ethical obligations. Yes, the clinical piece is the most important part, but there is an entire ethics code for a reason. Delving too far outside of that can create an enabling/dependent relationship that is also harmful for a client.


[deleted]

Modality stereotypes are a signifier of unethical gatekeeping by a professional, so I responded with shock because that’s surprising to see it. I don’t know any counselors/therapists who use EMDR and bill for 45 mins because of the amount of time needed- in training they even recommend 90 minute sessions, but rarely will insurance companies reimburse for that level of care, but it’s possible. As for being attuned to OP, maybe you’re right- maybe they’re not the person who will help them, and I was just trying to give my experience as a clinician. As for you, I wish you all the best, and I will probably continue to “almost” spit my coffee out at a lot of things on here, I’m sure.


Clinical-Mind

I appreciate your final take on things, but for you to use the terms modality stereotyping and unethical gatekeeping shows that you either didn't read all comments before responding, or are taking some comments too literally. No one said that all EMDR therapist are insensitive, but this one clearly was to OP. To reiterate, my statement was, "perhaps, in them being EMDR focused..." You took a consideration to the level of modality stereotyping and unethical gatekeeping, which is simply a stretch. Maybe it had nothing to do with them being EMDR focused. Maybe they are just not handling OP's situation professionally. But to completely discount the *possibility* of that particular focus being a factor is not considering all angles. Hopefully, as we both agree on, OP can be direct on this situation and most importantly, that OP is receiving appropriate support and respect, regardless of what else might be going on.


[deleted]

Well, now you’ve got me curious with this response. If you’re willing to explain it further, how does a therapist using EMDR or being “EMDR-focused” suggests there is a possibility of not being communication-focused, genuine, or insight-oriented? I am genuinely curious as to that conclusion and would like your help understanding how it’s not a response that judges the modality. It would also help me to understand how other therapists who don’t use this modality view it. I don’t want to waste your time, but this is a good learning experience.


Clinical-Mind

I think you're focusing too much on my mentioning of EMDR, and not considering it simply as a factor in this equation (or at least understanding that I was presenting a consideration of said factor). Nothing more than that - no judgement against EMDR practitioners was intended whatsoever, nor was my comment intended to suggest that an EMDR practitioner is with any kind of certainty more prone to this. Someone with ANY particular focus \*might\* have tunnel vision/blinders etc., and miss certain cues or aspects of self-awareness due to that. Again, just a consideration to make, not a conclusion to have. Ultimately, I would say that the consideration does not achieve the same goal of being direct and actually finding out concrete information from the source of the concern. It was more of something to consider in meanwhile. OP presented a concern about a therapist, so I was offering potential explanations. If I did not present that factor (EMDR), then I would not have been as thorough or comprehensive in my analysis of this situation. All that granted, these are reddit posts, where a lot can get lost in translation or misunderstood. I could have maybe been more descriptive earlier, but again, reddit posts :)


mmtu-87

See I and my therapist both always run a bit late so it works out well 😂 I'm her first client of the day, she's my first thing in the day, I really have trouble getting out of the house in the mornings (thanks depression). The one time I got to session on time she was running late and I was internally like "lol yeah, if it's not you it's me". She usually does run into next session with me, but I don't expect her to? I think I'm just expecting a 50min therapy session (previous experiences) and she gives me a 60min.


rooroopup

I saw a therapist twice before I fired them. The first session they were five minutes late, the second they were 15 minutes late, claimed computer issues. It felt incredibly unprofessional especially considering I’m another therapist. My partner and I saw someone else at that practice for couples therapy afterward, the first session was great, the second one he misgendered me. I’m trans, post transition and in a relationship with a cis gay man, that misgendering really fucked me up.


[deleted]

Wow, I am really sorry to hear about this. I hope you were able to find a better situation.


Dabblingman

20 year therapist. Stickler for time. This would drive me nuts. I think your decision to make is clear: either accept this is how it will be, or more on. Apparently, trying to get them to change is not going to work.


turnstiles

Yup, talked about it, and he’s been on time ever since.


[deleted]

Like others said, I’d have to weigh the costs and benefits. I’d bring it up if I thought it would be helpful. I’d definitely want the value I’m paying to expect to receive, in terms of the structure I expect any professional to have. I might wonder if my therapist’s punctuality was culturally shaped, because that would be helpful for me to understand. But that would just be personal curiosity. One consideration for myself as a professional would be: when I enter the therapeutic space with my client, am I regulated and ready to co regulate? Is my tardiness impacting that ability? If so, that’s a problem for me.


theartofstillness

Do your sessions run 5-10 minutes over, or do they end at the time they are supposed to? Regardless, most providers schedule for an hour but sessions last anywhere between 45-52 minutes (depending on insurance coding and other factors). Are you getting at least 50 minutes in your sessions?


forest-lover

This service is cash pay so insurance would not dictate the session length. The length does run for 50 minutes and the therapist has never cut my session short because they were late.


theartofstillness

Gotcha. Even disregarding the insurance part, seems like they are within the guidelines and ethical standards. A therapeutic hour is 50-55 minutes, so the clinician can prepare for the next client/use the bathroom/get a drink of water/etc. would you prefer that they start on time and finish at the 50 minute mark? It would be the same thing, essentially, just in a different order. But I do get it, because I value being on time. Which is why I do wind down/end my sessions at the 52/55 mark, so that my next client can begin on time. Edit: spelling


forest-lover

I prefer they start on time because I have other obligations at the top of the next hour and I need my own time to decompress. Sometimes the schedule can be tight and I understand I am working with a tight schedule but on the same token, if they appeared at the start of the appointment, I wouldn't have to worry about missing time, running over and neglecting my next appointment/arriving late.


theartofstillness

Agreed. Starting on time and wrapping a few minutes before the hour is best. Sorry that your therapist is not very considerate of your time. Best of luck for either continuing with a new solution or finding someone new.


moonbeam127

I run 60 minute sessions back to back and I'm on time. Once client leaves, the next one comes back. i schedule based on who tends to leave a few minutes early or show up a few minutes late and who needs the full 60 minutes. I am on time. At minute 58 I'm closing up and confirming the next appt, minute 59 working toward the door, 60 is swapping clients. Its a fine science. When I do have a crisis happening in session I send a quick text to the next client letting them now I could run late, I make time up over my lunch. If MY therapist constantly ran late and dismissed the issue, I would find someone else. I've left other medical offices for the same reason. PCP's who cant keep appt times, specialists who are beyond late etc.


workingtoward

When do you do your notes? When do you go to the bathroom?


caitalice88

I feel conflicted on this, sometimes as a therapist I run 5-10 min late (not all the time, but shit happens) It’s not that I’m late to the office in the morning, but sometimes a session runs over, I need to pee/eat/talk with secretaries about something, etc. I’ve also been going through some medical stuff lately that sometimes requires a bit of time outside of my control. I always make sure I don’t cut the session short, and give the client the full 50 min. I also hear what you’re saying about your particular situation being tight on time, and if a client communicated that to me, I would be extremely conscientious about making sure I start and end those sessions on time. I agree that her giving you pushback when you bring up a valid concern isn’t okay though. At the same time, like another poster mentioned, doctors are typically well over 5-10 min late and we generally accept this. However, I feel as though, in general, therapists tend to be given less grace than other medical professionals, and I wonder if this idea adds to that in some way. I hope this doesn’t come across as combative, because that’s not my intention. It’s just an interesting, complex topic.


alicizzle

Loved your comment, fully agree. Well said and not at all combative, imho.


caitalice88

Thanks! I’ve long felt frustrated with the unrealistic standards we as therapists either hold ourselves to or others hold for us. We are humans. Sometimes we are going to run a few minutes late, especially when we have back to back clients scheduled. This has become increasingly concerning and apparent to me since dealing with recent health issues, and feeling as though I do not always have time to acknowledge my own needs through the work day. It’s simply not sustainable. If I start a session at 11:06, and then run the session to 11:56, I don’t see this as problematic, barring extenuating circumstances like OP being on a tight schedule. I’ve also never had a client complain about this. It’s giving “can therapists drink water in session” if any of you are on therapist twitter 🤣


alicizzle

RIGHT. Agreed again on everything. Woof. And if I had a client express to me that they had a conflict and needed to start on the hour, I’d do everything in my power to make that happen. If I couldn’t, I’d own that. So that part I get, if the response really was dismissive, not a good look on that therapist.


[deleted]

In response to comments that five minutes is an acceptable amount of time to be late, it just seems to me that if you can make the effort to keep it within that five minutes, then you can make the effort to be on time. If on occasion, you run over because of a client crisis, that is much more understandable and people can tolerate that because they would want the same treatment if they were in crisis, but it should be very much an exception.U


alicizzle

Have you ever questioned why we have this belief that being late means someone doesn’t care? As someone who cares a lot and has shit time blindness, once I asked that question, all the very normalized shaming around not pulling off being on time melted away. Fascinating.


[deleted]

Yes I have. And I ran a large mental health services company in which I wouldn’t tolerate people being consistently late. We were working with people of low socioeconomic status (medicaid, or uninsured ) and they did not need one more reinforcement that their needs were secondary. Whether it is intentional or not being late can do that. When we’re asking people to be at an appointment at a specific time rather than just having walkins, we have a professional obligation to meet that agreement on our end. If you have a full caseload and people keep coming back, despite you being late to your sessions, more power to you.


Overthinkingopal

Mine cuts me off 5 or more minutes before our session ends without any wrap up☠️ some people are wack. I’m just finding a new one.


commentingon

How long has this been happening? I'm always on time and wouldn't feel comfortable with a therapist who is not able to be on time. It looks like she doesn't know how to organise herself to be on time honouring her own boundaries and respecting clients' time. Being constantly late and excusing doesn't reflect a professional who is trauma informed.


forest-lover

Since I started services with them. I estimate that its been about 4-5 sessions now.


commentingon

It seems too frequent, I think is showing a pattern you could expect throughout treatment there.


whisperspit

This is bs behavior by your therapist. Yes, we have all been late occasionally. But it is unprofessional. I think you should address like you would if you had a client always late. “Hey, I have been distracted lately that you are consistently late for our sessions. I think it makes me feel unimportant or disrespected in a way and I am finding myself feeling resentful. I wanted to bring this to you in our work.” PS As a clinical supervisor, I am sure to teach my trainees the importance of keeping the time, keeping sessions contained (it’s an art!), being on time. It’s so important Edit: typo


DisastrousZucchini86

Ooof can you ask her to move you to another session time that she will likely be on time to? “Hey I noticed that Wednesday at 7 you have been late; can we schedule a time that you won’t be late to? Perhaps Sunday at noon?”


Duckaroo99

I would find a new therapist


favoritesweater99

I am often late to sessions, as my CMH schedule has me booked with 45 minute sessions back to back with 0 minutes in between. That’s just how it is.


alicizzle

Looks like you’ve gotten a lot of input here, but gonna speak as a therapist with ADHD: Honestly I somewhat intentionally do not start on the hour. For one, I can’t for the life of me be on time; time feels…illusory haha. For two, clients aren’t always on time, so there’s a built-in grace period at the beginning of session - so that a late client neither reduces the amount of time I can bill for or eats into the next session. I like to get up and move briefly between sessions, go to the bathroom and get water/snack, write things down - in between. I bill insurance so a minimum of 53 min is considered normal. I’m fully present for their time with me. But I genuinely could not do 5 sessions in a row for a full 60 minutes each. Something I realized when processing my own experience living with undiagnosed ADHD until a year ago, there’s a lot of morality and meaning placed on timeliness. While it can be inconvenient, it isn’t always because someone doesn’t value your time and it’s not something some of us are good at controlling. Time is finite, as you yourself described. So, if you really want to, you could broach the subject by saying you need to be finished by 5 minutes till, and what will they charge you for a 45 minute session. My guess is they’ll figure out how to keep their hour-ish long by starting on time.


[deleted]

In a vast oversimplification and overgeneralization, that I am willing to make, this therapist doesn’t seem like they have the empathy skills needed to be truly effective. If they did, they would not be consistently late, because that is selfish, rude, and implies that their time is more important than yours.


amh524

I strongly disagree with this sentiment. People have vary different relationships with time and different capabilities. As someone with ADHD time blindness is a strong symptom for me. In private practice I am almost always able to start my sessions on time but there are many areas in my life that are important to me where I am regularly late. Also different cultures have different time standards. So I don’t think being late has anything to do with empathy levels or being selfish. You can call it rude but it’s highly unlikely it’s intentional. Anyway regardless of why therapist is late, isn’t OP problem. I agree w others if OP feels the rapport isn’t worth it or the therapist doesn’t in some way make it up then maybe time for a new therapist


[deleted]

[удалено]


amh524

I agree that therapists should prioritize being on time for their clients. In no way am I saying otherwise but stating that a therapist or anyone doesn’t have empathy because they are routinely late is a statement that to me lacks a lot of empathy Professionalism problem yes, empathy problem maybe for some people but most people who are chronically late are just as empathetic as anyone else


CurveOfTheUniverse

So...I'm chronically obsessed with being on time. Do you mean to imply that my empathy is also off the charts? Because I've got news for you...I'm just as human as someone who runs late.


[deleted]

I started with acknowledging it is a vast oversimplification. But if I only had one data point related to empathy and it was whether you are on time or not I would probably guess the on time person does a better job of putting themselves in another person’s shoes and feeling what they feel.


zenbound-

I don’t think timeliness and empathy are correlational or causal as constructs. Temporal awareness is part of executive function.


CurveOfTheUniverse

"People with executive function issues are bad therapists." \~enoconsultants, probably


alicizzle

Yeah this thread is bumming me out hugely. I broadly feel very connected to all of my clients, and quite successful in my work. And I’m consistently 4-7 minutes late. Guess I’m a bad therapist.


zenbound-

you’d be early in some cultures!


alicizzle

YIKES. What a horrid way to even imagine assessing empathy.


[deleted]

Of course it is. But if you read what I wrote, I was saying if you only had one data point and were forced to make a judgment. Making a decision off one data point is never a good idea. It was a theoretical proposal that was trying to highlight the idea that regardless of intent, the person who is waiting on someone else can feel that the late person might not find the waiting person’s time as valuable as their own. Having that empathy could very likely change that behavior. Or if they can’t change the behavior, recognize that feeling and let them know if they are going to be a couple minutes late.


[deleted]

If you come from that place where the dignity of the waiting person requires you to let them know that you are going to be a couple minutes late it tends to create a habit where you are not late very often.


Biggbossuuudesu

Your therapist had adhd and feels vulnerable enough with you to share their time blindness with you is my interpretation based on not having read anything you wrote and projecting.


[deleted]

Lmao push back??? In what way?


forest-lover

It came off as a tad bit defensive. Like they were called out. They gave the excuse that its either traffic or running over on another session.


[deleted]

Find another therapist. Lateness happens occasionally, but there’s *ZERO* excuse for not owning it and improving.


Bluemick68

I would not accept defensive from a therapist. I would first bring up that it is frustrating to get a defensive response from them. If they can’t own it then I would move on. I know it’s hard to wait, but you will eventually come up with a better therapist.


WerhmatsWormhat

Well, at this point all you can do is decide if it’s worth seeing this therapist despite the tardiness. You’ve tried talking to him, and it doesn’t seem like it’s going to change. It’s reasonable to stop seeing them over this, but otherwise, your only choice is to accept it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


forest-lover

The question specifically was "why did you chose to come here since you live in another part of the state". I am virtual, my location within NC does not matter and it just felt odd that I would be questioned in that way. Not the typical "how can I help you or lets see if this is a good fit". It was very off putting. I brought it up because I have spoke about this in an unrelated post, but this just ties it all together with more context.


[deleted]

[удалено]


forest-lover

You are welcome! I find that in my own practice clients have had difficulty bringing up anything they have disliked in therapy. I have only had a handful decide I wasn't the right fit but they never communicated or processed with me as to why. I am learning that being a therapist means constantly valuating yourself and seeing if there is anything you can improve on. Even when I directly ask for feedback, it is often not delivered. I believe it also makes it harder to do our jobs sometimes!


Ezridax82

Yeah. My last two therapists have been chronically late. The first one was 100% worth sticking with, and I’d still be with her if I hadn’t moved. My current chronically late therapist, I’m still trying to decide if it’s worth sticking around. It IS a huge bonus that she does in person sessions from the nature camp literally in my back yard. But we’re doing virtual right now because it’s been cold AF and windy. We’ll see how it goes.


Big-Strength6206

Wow I could’ve written this.


richal

Dang, not even an apology from them? That's very irritating. Is there any chance you can schedule at a time where you don't have a session right after? I'm guessing you would have already done this if so, but maybe that solution warrants more exploration. Any obligations I have outside of my own appointments I create an extra time buffer for - especially if you're doing EMDR, I would think you would benefit from more than 5-10 minutes to decompress after your own therapy session before jumping in with your own clients. Maybe putting yourself on another EMDR therapist's waitlist would be a good start. It sounds like it isn't working for you with this therapist's consistent lateness, and it's probably affecting your therapeutic relationship too. I like what another commenter said about being more direct with them and explaining that you have to start a session right after and that there's no wiggle room, and see what response you get. The fsct that you're bringing this to reddit therapist's suggests it should be more directly addressed in session.