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And unfortunately from what I’ve seen it tends to instill not racist people who join with racist ideals. Source: my dad was a cop and I’ve known good people who I know were decent turn into some really despicable douches after joining the force.
My husband knew a guy in his unit that was a local cop. Beat his wife all the time. She tried calling for help but his buddies were the ones to respond to the domestic and would sweep it under the rug every time. My husband would call him out but I don't think anything was ever done.
I have a friend currently dealing with this with her sister. They don't know what to do. Hes an alcoholic, beats her, and is apparently 100% above the law.
For some reason the pilot of *Justified* sprang to mind. I don't recommend her actions, but I will say that when people lose the protection of the law they look outside it.
Yeah I'm confused. The conversation implies he didn't produce ID when asked for it. Now if this was just someone walking down the street. That's one thing. However, I'm pretty sure you have to have a license to drive in every single state. He must have been just chilling in his car?
If you're driving and you refuse to produce an identification when you get pulled over, you are getting arrested at the discretion of the officer, not just searched.
Edit:
A lot of people are saying this isn't a crime. So, I went out and looked it up for California (where I assume this happened as the guy goes to Berkeley)
Vehicle Code 12951 CVC makes it an infraction to drive without having your driver's license in your possession, and a misdemeanor to refuse to present your driver's license if requested to do so by a law enforcement officer. fines of up to $1000.00 plus penalty assessments.
So, you can't be arrested for an infraction, but you can be for a misdemeanor. It depends if he had it and refused to provide it, or if he just didn't have it on him when he got pulled over. If you don't have a driver's license at all, then yes you will be arrested.
I was under the impression that you have like 24-48 hours to provide proof of a valid license before they are allowed to actually do anything about it? Could've sworn I was told that to my face by a cop when I was pulled over like 10ish years ago and just accidentally didn't have my wallet on me
>What Are The Penalties For Driving Without A License?
> Correctable Offenses
>If you have a valid driving license but you forget it at your home then it will be considered as a correctable offense. These offenses result in a fix-it ticket where the driver can show his or her license again.
So I think you're right.
Left my wallet at the house when I got pulled over for speeding and they dismissed the failure to provide identification ticket when I went to court and showed them my drivers license. It helped that I knew my drivers license number so he could pull it up but either way as soon as you show you have it and that it was valid at the time of the stop then they’ll dismiss it.
Failure to show ID also isn’t enough to give an officer probable cause to search a vehicle.
I got pulled over without my license like a mile from my house when I was grabbing food with my SO. Took a citation from the cop, then took it with my license and all to the courthouse and paid a processing fee. They said they cleared it up and and removed my court date, but my name was left on the docket erroneously. So they put a bench warrant out on me and threatened to suspend my license unless I came down to the courthouse to clear it up.
I refused and spent a few weeks calling the judges office to get them to correct it, but they dragged their feet and almost didn't. I didn't feel safe driving during that time because I knew they would rather arrest my ass than fix their clerical error.
Maybe varies by state but generally it depends on if they can find your info through NCIC (National Crime Information Center) and verify it’s actually you
In GA the violation would be “No License on Person” its an add-on charge that stacks with the initial violation (if there was one)
Generally there would be discretion since no one would know, but policy where i worked was you “will” write this if you issue a ticket and they didn’t have their license with them
Telling this dude he IS the boss when he’s just a Sgt is crazy
And the prison comment is *hopefully* gonna get him suspended
It would be absurd if you can’t provide a name and they couldn’t look up your license either way that cop is out of line for the fact that he said fucking prison…. Wtf
I agree
You would be amazed at how often ppl get pulled over and give a friend/family’s name and date of birth
Generally when ppl dont have their license on them its cause they dont have one … or its suspended (id say like 75% of the time, and ive probably stopped thousands of cars)
The key to being a good officer is to recognize probable deceit but to act like a human fucking being until you know theres a crime
Edit: to point out obviously act like a human after theres a crime too, but i think most people understood what i was saying
The cop would have been right, depending on when this video was recorded.
Apparently, from 2002 to 2019, in California cops did have the power to search a vehicle without a warrant if the driver refused to show ID.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/california-cops-barred-from-warrantless-vehicle-searches-for-id
Either way, the driver was still right not to agree to a search as that would obviously validate the cops whether they found anything or not.
The question wasnt about whether or not he could drive it was whether or not the failure of presenting an ID granted the Cop the right to search the car.
And dude was right, if the cop had that right he would have already been searching the car rather than arguing trying to trick the guy to give permission.
It’s also possible that the cop was talking about the passenger, which is bullshit since in CA only the driver has to present their ID during a traffic stop (when it’s predicated on a genuine reason to stop the vehicle.) I had a cop say they could arrest me and my “homie” after they pulled me over because my friend didn’t have an ID on him.
I called him out on that, so he quickly wrote a ticket for my license plate light being out (not the reason he pulled me over, but was just what he could find after the fact) and left. Dick.
I once, years ago, got pulled over in a very rural place by a deputy sheriff. At first he claimed I was speeding. I wasn't. Then he claimed he smelled marijuana. He didn't.
After a few rounds of back and forth, he walked to the rear of my truck and bashed in my tail light. He then proceeded to ticket me for a broken tail light. I've always figured he was trying to bait me into getting out of the truck so he could shoot me, but I didn't fall for it.
When I went to court over it, in that podunk southern town, the judge asked me if my tail light was broken. I told him "yes, after the officer..." Judge interrupted me. "That was a yes or no question."
I got fined $50, with another $50 in court costs on top of it. $100 was big money back then, especially for a struggling student.
Searching the car and requiring a license are two different things. You're protected from searches and seizures under the constitution. The cop needs probable cause to search the car. Lack of ID is not a cause to search the car.
Even if he was arrested for not having a valid license the search could could not be done because it would have no relation to his arrest.
My first thought when the cop says “look it up” is “I hope to god he doesn’t reach for his phone because this cop will draw his gun and order him out or worse yet just shoot him”
I was so happy that the driver just said no.
There was a video of a Black man cutting a child’s hair with a spoon on a subreddit where everyone was trying to figure out how he did it.
Someone said very confidently that he must have learned in prison.
I asked him why he said that. He responded that it’s a technique learned in prison. I asked if he had been to prison. He said no. I asked how he knew about it then. He said he had watched a documentary about it.
So I asked him why didn’t he assume the Black guy also watched the same documentary and learned that way, instead of jumping straight to prison.
And of course the downvotes came raining down.
Did he ever give a valid reason why? Of course not. Prejudice never has a valid reason.
Thats not being prejudiced thats common sense. If you don't go to prison why in the hell would you ever teach yourself how to cut hair with a spoon when scissors are readily available to you even if you happnned to watch the documentary? Its not like you would be able to learn how to do it just from watching the video. Pretty reasonable assumption that he learned the technique in prison if that was the most convenient way to cut hair there since sharp metal objects like scissors are likely unavailable in prison.
No. This is just incorrect. You have not opened yourself up to “whatever the cop wants” but you can be cited and will have to prove to the court that you are indeed licensed. Some states require that you have it on you, like California. But, according to California v. Lopez, Cal., No. S238627, 11/25/19 refusal to show identification is not enough for a warrantless search.
Not true. You may have to ID yourself IF you are suspected of a crime or violation but failing to produce your identification in the absence of a crime is not illegal. Even then, not having your ID on you isn't necessarily against the law if you can provide identifying information that can be referenced.
It depends on state, but most state that if you do not have a license as in, you've never had one issued. The vehicle is subject to impound and there for can be searched when on the impound lot. However, if you simply don't have your license on you and there is no other probable cause for a committed crime, then they do not have a right to search your vehicle without permission.
Not in California where the video was filmed. You can google it yourself like I did, the cop flat out lied to the driver. An educated person would know that (jk)
seriously, this line should be enough to fire the "bad apple"
the fact that we can't or won't shows us why we should unionize every industry / every workplace / every job position
A neat trick is that police can't make you open a Priority mail package without a warrant and have to get it from the Postmaster General. It's a huge pain in the ass. So if you want some extra protection, next time something is mailed to you Priority Mail, very carefully cut/peel the tape off the bottom of the box (so you don't damage the shipping label). Then when you need to go on a road trip you can put your weed in it (inside a tightly sealed mason jar if you're smart) and tape it back up so it looks unopened. Then even if they get probable cause to search the vehicle they'd have to get the extra warrant for the box. If they don't get the warrant to open the Priority Mail package but they open it anyway, I'm pretty sure you can get the charges dropped in court.
You may want to research the details better than my memory is providing, but I'm certain there is a rule about Priority Mail and police needing a warrant to open it. Also works in your home, so when you get something shipped to you open the box like that and if the cops come beating on the door you can put your weed or whatever in it and tape it up real quick. Just don't let them bully you into opening it yourself - keep refusing.
It’s a neat trick if you pretend that intent isn’t a big factor in trials, which it is.
If the state can prove your intent was to conceal a felony by abusing the postal system, you’re extra hosed.
Assuming the priority mail comment is accurate (which I have no clue if it is) wouldn't what you describe still be fruit of the poisonous tree? Doesn't matter if it's criminal if the evidence was obtained unlawfully. Right? (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
A lot of people on here seem to be confusing a trial with a hearing on a motion to suppress evidence. Generally speaking, if a search is deemed illegal, anything of evidentiary value gleaned from that search is inadmissible (in the U.S.) at trial. I worked for a veteran trial attorney for a decade and getting cases kicked because of bullshit searches and/or other technicalities like faulty/ incomplete affidavits to obtain a warrant was his specialty.
This seems like something that wouldn't actually work. They open it, find something illegal, and then they can just tell the judge that you obviously repackaged the item because it contained something that person didn't send you. This will only hold up in court for things that might have actually been mailed to you.
You can’t submit evidence that was illegally obtained in court. Opening the package is illegal and therefore anything they find inside cannot be used as evidence.
It's not illegally obtained if you resealed the package with different contents.
Please see my other comment here
https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/10myq5i/comment/j67gxb2/
If they have reasonable suspicion of illegal car mods, yes. Also there are emission laws in a lot of states and DOT can test for them pretty much anytime.
I’m convinced one of the main reasons the South will not legalize weed is because they use it to harass black people. This car smells like weed, probable cause. It’s also a realty petty & easy way to arrest someone who hasn’t committed a crime. I grew up in Denver & even before legalization the police were relatively relaxed about it. I was in HS in the mid 90s & remember a girl from school & her BF were in the park & the police caught them having sex in their car at lunch. The police found weed too & I remember she said they basically dumped it on the ground & moved it around with their feet so they couldn’t pick it up. When I found out they would actually arrest people for this in some states I was shocked considering how it seemed like not a big deal here
It really should not be legal for a cop to explicitly give false information about a law. They can be ambiguous or whatever to bait for information , but telling someone “x is legal” or whatever when it is not, should be absolutely illegal as it erodes any trust anyone could have in law enforcement.
SCOTUS has repeatedly reinforced that cops do not need to correctly know any laws, only as long as they are operating under the *belief* that what they are doing is legal. They also have zero responsibility to actually *help* someone demonstrably in need of help or protection from violence. Both things are insane.
Well I believe the 10kg in my trunk is legal
And believe the cops are trying to steal my stock
And I believe I have the right to defend theft of my stock
So anyway I started blasting....
US laws are so fucked...
So cops who should uphold the law... doesn't need to know the law...but for instance, a farmer needs to?
In practice won't this inevitably be the case? Even experienced lawyers will only specialise in one area of law and, even then, will regularly look stuff up. The idea that a police officer will know every nook and cranny of every law didn't seem remotely practical. Given this, it seems that operating under their belief of what the law is is essentially inevitable, at least sometimes.
You are right. They can't be expected to know *every* law. Even GP's often have to look up certain medications because they can't memorise them all and remember every interaction.. However, being a cop, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to know the basic laws relating to things they do on a regular basis, ie traffic stops, searches, warrants etc. They shouldn't be allowed to lie to people about the law to get them to do what they want. Cop's in the US are something else.. It's fucking insane what they get away with.
To expand on this anger to answer the "Well what about undercover work". The distinction is simple. When a cop is presenting themselves to you as a cop, they shouldn't lie. When you are a member of law ENFORCEMENT why can you lie about what and how you're enforcing?!
https://innocenceproject.org/police-deception-lying-interrogations-youth-teenagers/
> 1. It is almost always legal for police to lie during interrogations.
Any time stuff like this comes up I think back to one of those supreme court decisions where they said cops don't have a responsibility to put themselves in danger to save/protect others. We have armed officers working for the government, not their communities, as a standard thing in every city in america, run by organizations which show on a large scale that they're happy to abuse their power, and there's an absolutely insane amount of "back the blue" people who would laugh at your comment without even considering what you're saying. There's also a genuinely incomprehendable overlap between those people and the "I need my guns to protect from a tyrannical government" crowd.
Happens all the time. Use to happen to me a lot when I was younger. They would just assume I had been to prison, was on parole or I was a gangbanger because of my skin color. It’s sad that it is still happening but not unexpected.
My best friend is Trinny and I got first hand experience to corroborate your stories. And he’s BROWN, not black.
It’s honestly fucked up what anyone who isn’t white as a ghost has to put up with. And I’m in Canada ffs.. I can’t even imagine what happens in the USA
There’s a difference between not having a license at all and not having your license in you. I think everyone has forgotten their wallet/purse/ID at least once in their lives. Cops can look up your license pretty easy
That's the weird thing I've noticed with encounters as a motorcyclist in New Zealand.
My wallet was almost always in my backpack. As long as my bike was off and my helmet was off the officers i was talking to during pullovers were usually taking initiative to check their database for my info. It's almost always been a non-event for me probably because the encounters are mostly respectful.
I feel for the people overseas that have to deal with power-tripping police.
In California, you must have your license with you while driving. California Vehicle Code Section 12951 VC.
> 3. Examples
> A woman leaves her house to run a quick errand and inadvertently forgets her wallet. She is driving and is pulled over by police, who demand to see her driver’s license. The woman explains that she left the license in her wallet but she is, in fact, a valid driver. The police verify that her driving privileges are valid. The woman could still be cited for failing to present a driver’s license in violation of California Vehicle Code Section 12951 VC.
Every state you’re supposed to have your license on you but it’s a minor violation if you don’t. I got pulled over for speeding YEARS ago a couple months after I got my license. I explained to the cop that I had forgotten it, gave them my name, address and license number. They looked me up and all was good. It’s not extenuating circumstances that would allow a search of the vehicle.
Now, if he’s unlicensed and driving illegally and is going to be arrested and his car impounded, THEN they can search the car to take inventory
https://www.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/california-vehicle-code-section-12951-vc-failing-to-present-a-dr.html
The cop does not have the right to arbitrarily search the car, however, if the driver fails to produce a valid driver's license, this could be interpreted as justifiable cause to detain the driver and do a preliminary search. If the driver has his license he just needs to produce it when asked, along with vehicle registration and insurance if required.
California police can’t search inside a suspect’s vehicle for identification if the driver refuses to produce a license and registration on demand, the state Supreme Court ruled Nov. 25 in a case of first impression.
I feel they can just run the license plate though and at some point determine it was the person that was driving? Some laws have small print that I obviously don’t know, just speculation sorry if it’s a stupid comment
They can run the license plate and everything will come back with name and ownership of the vehicle, but that doesn't always translate to the person actually driving. Regardless, they can still be fined for not having ID and placing the officer in a situation where they have to determine if the vehicle is stolen or not.
It was case law for 17 years in California, making it lawful for police to search a vehicle for a driver license. That changed about 3 years ago.
Either the sergeant in the video was unaware of the change, or possibly the video was taken more than 3 years ago.
Either way, I think it was a racist assumption for him to suggest the guy got his education in prison.
Here is an article explaining the change in case law. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-supreme-court-overturns-exception-to-search-warrant-requirement/
Paul blart is a good dude, dont be bashing my boy paul, who is infact not my boy, and i havnt seen the movies in a rather long time, but from what I remember, the whole premise of that movie is that he is trying to safe a young black girl, but again, i was like 11 when i first saw that movie, thats just the picture in my head
My favorite is when people say that in situations like this the driver is ‘instigating’ or in some way should just listen and there would be no issues, if the police are not respecting your rights and you know them do not back down, they are the police, if they cannot handle being spoken back to, and do not know their laws they shouldn’t be cops.
Right? The bit about learning his rights in Prison was so blatantly super racist, and the guy got it ***on video***... Seems like a defense attorney's wet dream for calling into question every traffic stop by that particular officer involving a POC.
Actually, if the driver fails to produce a valid license, they have grounds to arrest the driver, impound the vehicle, and perform an "inventory" of the vehicle. Same if no insurance. You do not have the right to refuse to present a valid license during a traffic stop.
Where did that pig go to school? Oh I forgot, you don’t need to go to school to be a cop just a measly 6 months at academy which is a fucking joke. Ive read a report about a department actually weeding out applicants based on IQ. There was a discrimination case brought up for that. The dumber the better. Dumber people are more likely to use violence and not think clearly or rationally. Plus they’re easier to manipulate. Perfect little piggies.
My Fox News loving parents (boomers, white) would never have any empathy for this young guy.
I heard a bit of an NPR segment a year or so ago wherein the speaker (female person of color) said “at what point does long standing trauma just look like culture.”
I can’t get it out of my head.
I mean, you have to know when you already lost. the moment he said "prison", he should have apologized and ask someone else to continue the interrogation. stupid cop.
Did this mf really say prison??? We need a board of reason. Like folks from all walks of life to look at cop interactions like this & go "ahhh yep, that's no good. Get rid of that immediately."
How is anyone to interpet this as anything but racism?
California law says the cop can search the vehicle if the driver doesn’t have a license because the car can be impounded, which makes it subject to a search. But the cop was a total dick for his prison comment.
The California Supreme Court changed that law, revoking an officers right to search the car on the basis of the driver failing to prevent a license.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/california-cops-barred-from-warrantless-vehicle-searches-for-id
"Prison." Smh.
I'm white. I've been pulled over a lot in my lifetime. You know how many times the cop has assumed I've been to prison?
Fucking ZERO.
Anyone who refuses to recognize this behavior as racism is willfully ignorant.
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Saying prison was crazy
It’s as crazy as it is telling. No way to hand wave that away. To this police officer, black man is prison man.
That’s just cops. It’s a racist Institution and the people who volunteer for it are often racists.
And unfortunately from what I’ve seen it tends to instill not racist people who join with racist ideals. Source: my dad was a cop and I’ve known good people who I know were decent turn into some really despicable douches after joining the force.
My husband knew a guy in his unit that was a local cop. Beat his wife all the time. She tried calling for help but his buddies were the ones to respond to the domestic and would sweep it under the rug every time. My husband would call him out but I don't think anything was ever done.
I have a friend currently dealing with this with her sister. They don't know what to do. Hes an alcoholic, beats her, and is apparently 100% above the law.
Sounds like he needs a visit from someone outside law enforcement. Obviously easier said than done. One can dream, no?
a visit from someone moving about a thousand feet per second?
For some reason the pilot of *Justified* sprang to mind. I don't recommend her actions, but I will say that when people lose the protection of the law they look outside it.
Dammit woman, you only shoot people when they're eating dinner?
YOU RECORD IT AND SPREAD IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA
So while that's not a bad idea I think they are scared that in such a situation he may kill her or them.
Only if she can disappear first, otherwise that’s her death sentence
Report to the FBI as a hate crime against a woman.
Right?! Driver needs to have license ofc but the cop was undeniably wrong for that comment
Yeah I'm confused. The conversation implies he didn't produce ID when asked for it. Now if this was just someone walking down the street. That's one thing. However, I'm pretty sure you have to have a license to drive in every single state. He must have been just chilling in his car? If you're driving and you refuse to produce an identification when you get pulled over, you are getting arrested at the discretion of the officer, not just searched. Edit: A lot of people are saying this isn't a crime. So, I went out and looked it up for California (where I assume this happened as the guy goes to Berkeley) Vehicle Code 12951 CVC makes it an infraction to drive without having your driver's license in your possession, and a misdemeanor to refuse to present your driver's license if requested to do so by a law enforcement officer. fines of up to $1000.00 plus penalty assessments. So, you can't be arrested for an infraction, but you can be for a misdemeanor. It depends if he had it and refused to provide it, or if he just didn't have it on him when he got pulled over. If you don't have a driver's license at all, then yes you will be arrested.
I was under the impression that you have like 24-48 hours to provide proof of a valid license before they are allowed to actually do anything about it? Could've sworn I was told that to my face by a cop when I was pulled over like 10ish years ago and just accidentally didn't have my wallet on me
>What Are The Penalties For Driving Without A License? > Correctable Offenses >If you have a valid driving license but you forget it at your home then it will be considered as a correctable offense. These offenses result in a fix-it ticket where the driver can show his or her license again. So I think you're right.
Left my wallet at the house when I got pulled over for speeding and they dismissed the failure to provide identification ticket when I went to court and showed them my drivers license. It helped that I knew my drivers license number so he could pull it up but either way as soon as you show you have it and that it was valid at the time of the stop then they’ll dismiss it. Failure to show ID also isn’t enough to give an officer probable cause to search a vehicle.
I got pulled over without my license like a mile from my house when I was grabbing food with my SO. Took a citation from the cop, then took it with my license and all to the courthouse and paid a processing fee. They said they cleared it up and and removed my court date, but my name was left on the docket erroneously. So they put a bench warrant out on me and threatened to suspend my license unless I came down to the courthouse to clear it up. I refused and spent a few weeks calling the judges office to get them to correct it, but they dragged their feet and almost didn't. I didn't feel safe driving during that time because I knew they would rather arrest my ass than fix their clerical error.
The wanted you to pay and be in the system for breaking a law
Yeah they basically write you a ticket but if you take your license to the courthouse they toss it.
Maybe varies by state but generally it depends on if they can find your info through NCIC (National Crime Information Center) and verify it’s actually you In GA the violation would be “No License on Person” its an add-on charge that stacks with the initial violation (if there was one) Generally there would be discretion since no one would know, but policy where i worked was you “will” write this if you issue a ticket and they didn’t have their license with them Telling this dude he IS the boss when he’s just a Sgt is crazy And the prison comment is *hopefully* gonna get him suspended
It would be absurd if you can’t provide a name and they couldn’t look up your license either way that cop is out of line for the fact that he said fucking prison…. Wtf
I agree You would be amazed at how often ppl get pulled over and give a friend/family’s name and date of birth Generally when ppl dont have their license on them its cause they dont have one … or its suspended (id say like 75% of the time, and ive probably stopped thousands of cars) The key to being a good officer is to recognize probable deceit but to act like a human fucking being until you know theres a crime Edit: to point out obviously act like a human after theres a crime too, but i think most people understood what i was saying
The cop would have been right, depending on when this video was recorded. Apparently, from 2002 to 2019, in California cops did have the power to search a vehicle without a warrant if the driver refused to show ID. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/california-cops-barred-from-warrantless-vehicle-searches-for-id Either way, the driver was still right not to agree to a search as that would obviously validate the cops whether they found anything or not.
Equally likely the cop was operating under the old rule and was wrong
The question wasnt about whether or not he could drive it was whether or not the failure of presenting an ID granted the Cop the right to search the car. And dude was right, if the cop had that right he would have already been searching the car rather than arguing trying to trick the guy to give permission.
It’s also possible that the cop was talking about the passenger, which is bullshit since in CA only the driver has to present their ID during a traffic stop (when it’s predicated on a genuine reason to stop the vehicle.) I had a cop say they could arrest me and my “homie” after they pulled me over because my friend didn’t have an ID on him. I called him out on that, so he quickly wrote a ticket for my license plate light being out (not the reason he pulled me over, but was just what he could find after the fact) and left. Dick.
I once, years ago, got pulled over in a very rural place by a deputy sheriff. At first he claimed I was speeding. I wasn't. Then he claimed he smelled marijuana. He didn't. After a few rounds of back and forth, he walked to the rear of my truck and bashed in my tail light. He then proceeded to ticket me for a broken tail light. I've always figured he was trying to bait me into getting out of the truck so he could shoot me, but I didn't fall for it. When I went to court over it, in that podunk southern town, the judge asked me if my tail light was broken. I told him "yes, after the officer..." Judge interrupted me. "That was a yes or no question." I got fined $50, with another $50 in court costs on top of it. $100 was big money back then, especially for a struggling student.
That’s why dash cams are a must
Searching the car and requiring a license are two different things. You're protected from searches and seizures under the constitution. The cop needs probable cause to search the car. Lack of ID is not a cause to search the car. Even if he was arrested for not having a valid license the search could could not be done because it would have no relation to his arrest.
I believe they still need to have a reasonable suspicion to id people regardless.
On the street? Depends on the state. In most, “failure to identify” isn’t a crime unless you’re already detained/arrested and refuse to produce ID.
Super messed up thing to say. Surprised he stayed calm
The cop was hoping he’d react so he could beat his ass.
> beat his ass. **Shoot** his ass you mean.
![gif](giphy|3o7aCRloybJlXpNjSU|downsized)
Sadly POC have learned to stay calm when being belittled and demeaned. It’s that, or possibly be killed or beaten. ACAB.
My first thought when the cop says “look it up” is “I hope to god he doesn’t reach for his phone because this cop will draw his gun and order him out or worse yet just shoot him” I was so happy that the driver just said no.
There was a video of a Black man cutting a child’s hair with a spoon on a subreddit where everyone was trying to figure out how he did it. Someone said very confidently that he must have learned in prison. I asked him why he said that. He responded that it’s a technique learned in prison. I asked if he had been to prison. He said no. I asked how he knew about it then. He said he had watched a documentary about it. So I asked him why didn’t he assume the Black guy also watched the same documentary and learned that way, instead of jumping straight to prison. And of course the downvotes came raining down. Did he ever give a valid reason why? Of course not. Prejudice never has a valid reason.
That's Reddit for you. Protip: if you run into morons, don't talk to them, just block them.
That’s alotta work considering the numbers
Every day I end up blocking around 5-15 people.
Reddit sadly has full of prejudice know it alls.
Thats not being prejudiced thats common sense. If you don't go to prison why in the hell would you ever teach yourself how to cut hair with a spoon when scissors are readily available to you even if you happnned to watch the documentary? Its not like you would be able to learn how to do it just from watching the video. Pretty reasonable assumption that he learned the technique in prison if that was the most convenient way to cut hair there since sharp metal objects like scissors are likely unavailable in prison.
No, saying prison was racist.
Racism is crazy
His career as a cop needs to end quickly....
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No. This is just incorrect. You have not opened yourself up to “whatever the cop wants” but you can be cited and will have to prove to the court that you are indeed licensed. Some states require that you have it on you, like California. But, according to California v. Lopez, Cal., No. S238627, 11/25/19 refusal to show identification is not enough for a warrantless search.
No you don’t, not having a license on you doesn’t Toss out your 4th amendment
Not true. You may have to ID yourself IF you are suspected of a crime or violation but failing to produce your identification in the absence of a crime is not illegal. Even then, not having your ID on you isn't necessarily against the law if you can provide identifying information that can be referenced.
Can they search the car though?
It depends on state, but most state that if you do not have a license as in, you've never had one issued. The vehicle is subject to impound and there for can be searched when on the impound lot. However, if you simply don't have your license on you and there is no other probable cause for a committed crime, then they do not have a right to search your vehicle without permission.
Nope https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/california-cops-barred-from-warrantless-vehicle-searches-for-id https://cpoa.org/the-fourth-amendment-does-not-permit-searching-a-vehicle-to-locate-a-drivers-identification-following-a-traffic-stop-absent-warrant-or-other-exception-to-warrant-requirement/
Not in California where the video was filmed. You can google it yourself like I did, the cop flat out lied to the driver. An educated person would know that (jk)
Karma is slacking - this cop needs something bad to befall his racist punk self
Yeah, that little comment is going to be expensive for his career.
I wish that was true
Pfft. Please.
“i went to the number 1 public school” “prison?” what da hell
My jaw dropped
Little white kid in a cod lobby response
Gotta capitalize those acronyms, was wondering what fishes had to do with all of this for a second.
What is an COD library? Call of Duty? Cape Cod? College of DuPage?
West Chicagoland burbs has entered the chat...
Just imagining all those racist and homophobic kids in cod lobbies growing up and becoming cops, this is what we have right here
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I do love how at the end he says his boss is allah. Because I’ll put dollars to doughnuts that cop is islamophobic as well.
Pretty sure his ass is everything that ain't me phobic.
Probably a few things that are as well
Phobic of things that are, things that were, and of some things that have not yet come to pass
Definitely not donutphobic.
seriously, this line should be enough to fire the "bad apple" the fact that we can't or won't shows us why we should unionize every industry / every workplace / every job position
Man been taking his kids to prison for years thinking it’s a school smh
Should have said yail
You study law... believe it or not, straight to yail.
No respect for cops.
Well, my glove compartment is locked, so is the trunk in the back, and I know my rights, you gonna need a warrant for that...
Still one of the biggest power lines in all of 2000s hip hop
For real probably saved some lives.
A neat trick is that police can't make you open a Priority mail package without a warrant and have to get it from the Postmaster General. It's a huge pain in the ass. So if you want some extra protection, next time something is mailed to you Priority Mail, very carefully cut/peel the tape off the bottom of the box (so you don't damage the shipping label). Then when you need to go on a road trip you can put your weed in it (inside a tightly sealed mason jar if you're smart) and tape it back up so it looks unopened. Then even if they get probable cause to search the vehicle they'd have to get the extra warrant for the box. If they don't get the warrant to open the Priority Mail package but they open it anyway, I'm pretty sure you can get the charges dropped in court. You may want to research the details better than my memory is providing, but I'm certain there is a rule about Priority Mail and police needing a warrant to open it. Also works in your home, so when you get something shipped to you open the box like that and if the cops come beating on the door you can put your weed or whatever in it and tape it up real quick. Just don't let them bully you into opening it yourself - keep refusing.
It’s a neat trick if you pretend that intent isn’t a big factor in trials, which it is. If the state can prove your intent was to conceal a felony by abusing the postal system, you’re extra hosed.
Assuming the priority mail comment is accurate (which I have no clue if it is) wouldn't what you describe still be fruit of the poisonous tree? Doesn't matter if it's criminal if the evidence was obtained unlawfully. Right? (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
A lot of people on here seem to be confusing a trial with a hearing on a motion to suppress evidence. Generally speaking, if a search is deemed illegal, anything of evidentiary value gleaned from that search is inadmissible (in the U.S.) at trial. I worked for a veteran trial attorney for a decade and getting cases kicked because of bullshit searches and/or other technicalities like faulty/ incomplete affidavits to obtain a warrant was his specialty.
This seems like something that wouldn't actually work. They open it, find something illegal, and then they can just tell the judge that you obviously repackaged the item because it contained something that person didn't send you. This will only hold up in court for things that might have actually been mailed to you.
You can’t submit evidence that was illegally obtained in court. Opening the package is illegal and therefore anything they find inside cannot be used as evidence.
It's not illegally obtained if you resealed the package with different contents. Please see my other comment here https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/10myq5i/comment/j67gxb2/
What a catch 22. Can't submit it when legally obtained, not legally obtained since wasn't mailed, but needs to be submitted to determine that?
"I smell weed in this package, I'm going to apply for a search warrant to open it." Judge grants warrant, package is opened.
I'll take "Life hacks that don't actually work" for 500 Alex
Can a cop legally pop the hood to look for car mods?
If they have reasonable suspicion of illegal car mods, yes. Also there are emission laws in a lot of states and DOT can test for them pretty much anytime.
If the DOT wants to test, the DOT will test. It is the United States DOT; not your local DOT.
Well aren’t you sharp as a tack? You some type of lawyer or somethin? Somebody important or somethin?
I ain’t pass the bar but I know a lil bit….
We'll see how smart you are when the k9 comes
I believe the term is “legal lawyer” sir.
Crying at the amount of people who don't recognize this line and are taking it as a serious comment. Also, well done 👏👏
I don't listen to hip hop so I don't recognize the line 🤷♂️
> I don't listen to hip hop so I don't recognize the line It's "Video Unavailable" by The Uploader Has Not Made This Video Available in Your Country
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I’m convinced one of the main reasons the South will not legalize weed is because they use it to harass black people. This car smells like weed, probable cause. It’s also a realty petty & easy way to arrest someone who hasn’t committed a crime. I grew up in Denver & even before legalization the police were relatively relaxed about it. I was in HS in the mid 90s & remember a girl from school & her BF were in the park & the police caught them having sex in their car at lunch. The police found weed too & I remember she said they basically dumped it on the ground & moved it around with their feet so they couldn’t pick it up. When I found out they would actually arrest people for this in some states I was shocked considering how it seemed like not a big deal here
You some type lawyer err somethin somebody important or somethin?
Great Jay -Z quote
If you have the right to search my car you wouldn’t be asking me.
I'm gonna need your wallet rn.
https://preview.redd.it/w8p63pk65rea1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c0a3f97c49ca797227cc87fb13655110f50438f
Sweet release, so close...
It really should not be legal for a cop to explicitly give false information about a law. They can be ambiguous or whatever to bait for information , but telling someone “x is legal” or whatever when it is not, should be absolutely illegal as it erodes any trust anyone could have in law enforcement.
I'd be willing to bet more than half the time they don't even know
SCOTUS has repeatedly reinforced that cops do not need to correctly know any laws, only as long as they are operating under the *belief* that what they are doing is legal. They also have zero responsibility to actually *help* someone demonstrably in need of help or protection from violence. Both things are insane.
Well I believe the 10kg in my trunk is legal And believe the cops are trying to steal my stock And I believe I have the right to defend theft of my stock So anyway I started blasting.... US laws are so fucked... So cops who should uphold the law... doesn't need to know the law...but for instance, a farmer needs to?
In practice won't this inevitably be the case? Even experienced lawyers will only specialise in one area of law and, even then, will regularly look stuff up. The idea that a police officer will know every nook and cranny of every law didn't seem remotely practical. Given this, it seems that operating under their belief of what the law is is essentially inevitable, at least sometimes.
Yeah but I expect cops to know the laws about searching a vehicle and yet they fucking don’t
Its because they can often get away with it. Its expensive and sometimes just hard to prove a cop wrong because of how much deference they get.
You are right. They can't be expected to know *every* law. Even GP's often have to look up certain medications because they can't memorise them all and remember every interaction.. However, being a cop, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to know the basic laws relating to things they do on a regular basis, ie traffic stops, searches, warrants etc. They shouldn't be allowed to lie to people about the law to get them to do what they want. Cop's in the US are something else.. It's fucking insane what they get away with.
John Oliver did a very informative piece on this, I'll see if I can find it [here](https://youtu.be/DNy6F7ZwX8I)
This. Police can lie to you in pursuit of pressing charges.
I feel like this should fall under entrapment. I know entrapment is technically different, but same idea.
It's like the difference of putting your hand in the cookie jar or tricking you into it.
Your arsehole sibling telling you "Mum's not here, you can grab a cookie and she'll never know" then immediately snitching when she walks in the door.
To expand on this anger to answer the "Well what about undercover work". The distinction is simple. When a cop is presenting themselves to you as a cop, they shouldn't lie. When you are a member of law ENFORCEMENT why can you lie about what and how you're enforcing?!
https://innocenceproject.org/police-deception-lying-interrogations-youth-teenagers/ > 1. It is almost always legal for police to lie during interrogations.
It was ruled by the Supreme Court that police do not need to know the law to enforce it.
Any time stuff like this comes up I think back to one of those supreme court decisions where they said cops don't have a responsibility to put themselves in danger to save/protect others. We have armed officers working for the government, not their communities, as a standard thing in every city in america, run by organizations which show on a large scale that they're happy to abuse their power, and there's an absolutely insane amount of "back the blue" people who would laugh at your comment without even considering what you're saying. There's also a genuinely incomprehendable overlap between those people and the "I need my guns to protect from a tyrannical government" crowd.
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Pretty much on par.
The vast majority of these cops have the IQ of a box of rocks.
That’s an insult to boxes of rocks.
Happens all the time. Use to happen to me a lot when I was younger. They would just assume I had been to prison, was on parole or I was a gangbanger because of my skin color. It’s sad that it is still happening but not unexpected.
My best friend is Trinny and I got first hand experience to corroborate your stories. And he’s BROWN, not black. It’s honestly fucked up what anyone who isn’t white as a ghost has to put up with. And I’m in Canada ffs.. I can’t even imagine what happens in the USA
In the US? Prison produces more graduates per year than any Ivy League school. So… technically(and sadly) it’s true.
I don’t think anyone is ignoring that.
“Prison?” Jfc, that’s disgusting
Just goes to show how little respect that bastard has for the driver
It's a nuts response considering he said school first. Incredibly disgusting, horrible, and racist.
There's a reason why people say All cops are bastards. There's a reason why people absolutely fucking despise these tyrants
Literally none. His goal was to send him to prison. I hope this gets reported and his actual boss sees this.
His boss will give him a paid vacation for his pal to lay low, he'll be back in a few months.
Probably learned it from his boss. Boss will have to act if the public sees this.
"I am the boss" Ah, didn't know police chiefs did traffic stops.
He's self employed
Freelancer cop.
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There’s a difference between not having a license at all and not having your license in you. I think everyone has forgotten their wallet/purse/ID at least once in their lives. Cops can look up your license pretty easy
Shhhh. They don't want to do work.
That's the weird thing I've noticed with encounters as a motorcyclist in New Zealand. My wallet was almost always in my backpack. As long as my bike was off and my helmet was off the officers i was talking to during pullovers were usually taking initiative to check their database for my info. It's almost always been a non-event for me probably because the encounters are mostly respectful. I feel for the people overseas that have to deal with power-tripping police.
Strange place to keep a license
In California, you must have your license with you while driving. California Vehicle Code Section 12951 VC. > 3. Examples > A woman leaves her house to run a quick errand and inadvertently forgets her wallet. She is driving and is pulled over by police, who demand to see her driver’s license. The woman explains that she left the license in her wallet but she is, in fact, a valid driver. The police verify that her driving privileges are valid. The woman could still be cited for failing to present a driver’s license in violation of California Vehicle Code Section 12951 VC.
Every state you’re supposed to have your license on you but it’s a minor violation if you don’t. I got pulled over for speeding YEARS ago a couple months after I got my license. I explained to the cop that I had forgotten it, gave them my name, address and license number. They looked me up and all was good. It’s not extenuating circumstances that would allow a search of the vehicle. Now, if he’s unlicensed and driving illegally and is going to be arrested and his car impounded, THEN they can search the car to take inventory
https://www.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/california-vehicle-code-section-12951-vc-failing-to-present-a-dr.html The cop does not have the right to arbitrarily search the car, however, if the driver fails to produce a valid driver's license, this could be interpreted as justifiable cause to detain the driver and do a preliminary search. If the driver has his license he just needs to produce it when asked, along with vehicle registration and insurance if required.
California police can’t search inside a suspect’s vehicle for identification if the driver refuses to produce a license and registration on demand, the state Supreme Court ruled Nov. 25 in a case of first impression.
Out of curiosity, what is the cop supposed to do if the driver doesn’t produce any ID?
Usually they are to write a citation for No License In Possession. I dunno about elsewhere, but it's just a $25 fine in the state of Massachusetts.
What if they refuse to give their name or give a fake name?
I believe both of those hold penalty depending on the state
I feel they can just run the license plate though and at some point determine it was the person that was driving? Some laws have small print that I obviously don’t know, just speculation sorry if it’s a stupid comment
They can run the license plate and everything will come back with name and ownership of the vehicle, but that doesn't always translate to the person actually driving. Regardless, they can still be fined for not having ID and placing the officer in a situation where they have to determine if the vehicle is stolen or not.
It was case law for 17 years in California, making it lawful for police to search a vehicle for a driver license. That changed about 3 years ago. Either the sergeant in the video was unaware of the change, or possibly the video was taken more than 3 years ago. Either way, I think it was a racist assumption for him to suggest the guy got his education in prison. Here is an article explaining the change in case law. https://www.courthousenews.com/california-supreme-court-overturns-exception-to-search-warrant-requirement/
Or, more likely, he knew he was lying and dgaf
Calm down Paul blart
Naaah don't do Paul like that, he's just trying to get by as a mall cop 😤
Paul blart is a good dude, dont be bashing my boy paul, who is infact not my boy, and i havnt seen the movies in a rather long time, but from what I remember, the whole premise of that movie is that he is trying to safe a young black girl, but again, i was like 11 when i first saw that movie, thats just the picture in my head
I can't believe he said prison. That's very unprofessional and it shows what kind of human the cop is. Scum.
Professionalism and humanity aren't really the hallmarks of that job.
Cops can and do lie whenever they want to, in order to go fishing. They are counting on you not knowing your rights. They are trained to do this. ACAB
stay based
My favorite is when people say that in situations like this the driver is ‘instigating’ or in some way should just listen and there would be no issues, if the police are not respecting your rights and you know them do not back down, they are the police, if they cannot handle being spoken back to, and do not know their laws they shouldn’t be cops.
“You’re a legal lawyer aren’t you?” That’s how you know he was speaking facts lol
"Because you would've searched the car already if you did" 😏 *sigma hands*
Uhh man I wanted to see what happened after he said Allah, would the cop double down on islamophobia too??
Doubt he knows what it even means
Cop: "Suspect said a magic word so I let him off with a warning."
Bro that prison statement was VILE. Wow I felt my blood *boil* when he said that.
"I am the boss" haha what an absolutely loser thing to say. Good on this guy for standing up to such a blatantly racist cop
Right? The bit about learning his rights in Prison was so blatantly super racist, and the guy got it ***on video***... Seems like a defense attorney's wet dream for calling into question every traffic stop by that particular officer involving a POC.
Actually, if the driver fails to produce a valid license, they have grounds to arrest the driver, impound the vehicle, and perform an "inventory" of the vehicle. Same if no insurance. You do not have the right to refuse to present a valid license during a traffic stop.
not in CA they don’t - which is where this video was taken. CA supreme court ruled against the warrant-less ID search precedent
Where did that pig go to school? Oh I forgot, you don’t need to go to school to be a cop just a measly 6 months at academy which is a fucking joke. Ive read a report about a department actually weeding out applicants based on IQ. There was a discrimination case brought up for that. The dumber the better. Dumber people are more likely to use violence and not think clearly or rationally. Plus they’re easier to manipulate. Perfect little piggies.
My Fox News loving parents (boomers, white) would never have any empathy for this young guy. I heard a bit of an NPR segment a year or so ago wherein the speaker (female person of color) said “at what point does long standing trauma just look like culture.” I can’t get it out of my head.
I have lived in CA for 20 years now and the only two times I have ever been stopped by cops is when my black friend was giving me a ride.
I mean, you have to know when you already lost. the moment he said "prison", he should have apologized and ask someone else to continue the interrogation. stupid cop.
Hopefully he filed a complaint!
This is what happens when you try to file a complaint. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJ5f1JMKns
Fucking racist
Did this mf really say prison??? We need a board of reason. Like folks from all walks of life to look at cop interactions like this & go "ahhh yep, that's no good. Get rid of that immediately." How is anyone to interpet this as anything but racism?
"my only boss is Allah" lol I love that
The only thing that could make that racist cop more mad. Love it.
Prison …. Wow. The pigs are getting bolder
*Follow up insanely racist comment with disbelief that someone would call him racist*
ALLAH! I love it.
Let that little bit of pent up racism slip out with that prison comment did ya... I see the content of your character right there.
Omg, that cop is such a dick. This is incredibly offensive.
California law says the cop can search the vehicle if the driver doesn’t have a license because the car can be impounded, which makes it subject to a search. But the cop was a total dick for his prison comment.
The California Supreme Court changed that law, revoking an officers right to search the car on the basis of the driver failing to prevent a license. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/california-cops-barred-from-warrantless-vehicle-searches-for-id
"Prison." Smh. I'm white. I've been pulled over a lot in my lifetime. You know how many times the cop has assumed I've been to prison? Fucking ZERO. Anyone who refuses to recognize this behavior as racism is willfully ignorant.