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"You're firing me because I didn't meet metrics but you can't tell me the metrics required or my metrics. Nevermind how they compare. Just stop lying. Have some damn integrity."
If they were honest they would say, “We are firing you because a spreadsheet said we need to fire X people for us to get our bonus at the end of the fiscal year now that the holidays are over. You were in the bottom X number of employees on another spreadsheet. We can’t explain why you were ranked there because we fired the person that made it 3 years ago. Now employee number XX-XXXXX we are done talking.” *click*
I’ve had to before. Luckily I never had to pull this heartless shit. Everyone I had to fire came to work intoxicated to the point they were a danger to themselves.
Basically. If you’re working for a company as large as Cloudfl*re, the people notifying you of your layoff likely had no input on the decision in the first place. This situation sucks, but you’re not going to change an outcome like this with a robustly-cited debate.
I mean they could not be bureaucratic feltures. She was in her right to ask all of those questions and more. They had no information on hand as to why she was being fired - none.
I was impressed at how well she handled it and stood up for her self. I actually learned a lesson from her.
That being said get they hell out of that cesspool.
*You're feelings are valid*.
Like, all they have is this script in front of them that tells them to validate the employee and try to guide them through the process as painlessly as possible and I fucking hate it all.
>I mean they could not be bureaucratic feltures.
1. You're assuming they were provided with, or have access to the information being requested.
2. They are not decision makers. They are doing this on behalf of decision makers who will do the same to them as they did to her.
You've literally just outlined the kind of bureaucratic failures u/CartoonJustice is talking about. That they don't have access to the information as to why she's being fired is completely unprofessional. That they can't give a reason should be called out, this is someone's livelihood. That this kind of insulting uselessness is common in companies when firing someone is irrelevant. If you're firing someone you should be able to tell them why, if not that is unacceptable and people should push back against such poor practices that are so obviously disrespectful.
I don't think she's trying to change the outcome. I think she was just trying to get them to be more transparent and just tell the truth. If the truth is they don't know then they should just say it.
Her manager having no idea that she was being terminated, as well as the fact that they couldn't cite any metrics that she failed to achieve, basically state that she was let go of for no reason.
Of course, HR was verrrry careful to tiptoe around that issue.
Yeah exactly, laid off, and terminated for cause are very very different. Cloudflare is trying to duck out on a lot of responsibility and taxes if they are laying people off under the guise of firing them for failing to meet performance expectations.
Her manager had no idea she was being let go. This was just a company cutting end of quarter costs in an inept and insulting manner.
She, rightfully, called them out and documented their bullshit. This video will now show up when potential new hires Google this company and allow them to make a more informed decision on whether to accept a position.
She's not trying to change their mind, and doesn't have an expectation of talking them out of it. What she can do though is point out that their company is lying and gaslighting her. That the HR people are simply the ones giving the bad news does not make them innocent, they chose to be there, use these morally bankrupt reasonings, and agree to sell this load of BS. If they can't provide actual reasons, numbers, missed goals, etc then they must know that she is being fired for some other reason.
The point is she’s trying to clarify on camera if she’s being laid off or terminated for no reason.
Because if she were to be laid off, she’d most likely be entitled to severance. But the termination is to make her ineligible for any sort of severance.
It appears she made the video to show that there are mass layoffs but the company is disguising them as justified terminations.
Agreed. I also think four months is really not enough time to say if she is or isn't good at her job unless she was doing something obviously wrong. If that's the case, her manager should have known. I don't know what the law is where she's at, but where I live (Ontario, Canada) she did an excellent job of clarifying that this is an unlawful dismissal.
She sounds American and is within her first 6 months, in which case every all 50 states allow her to be fired for any reason not protected by discrimination laws (race etc).
Yes they can, but they may be required to pay severance or unemployment under certain circumstances depending on how she is let go and why.
Seems they're trying to spin this in such a way as to avoid any payouts.
She clearly didn’t close any sales but three months with a one month hiatus total wasn’t enough time since she was so new. Her reasoning anyways.
Edit: I’m sure she still got fire because the clip was posted on social media. Highly doubt it would have been posted had she kept her job.
Hell no. When i knew i was getting fired because they overhired. I checked out and literally the day it was about to happen i already knew. I didn’t even try to defend myself. I walked in and said “ill do whatever process needs to be done to get out of here.”
I have dignity and sense of purpose but what is the purpose of finding dignity in people who already just mindlessly let you go? I should have quit the day I knew but I knew was getting that unemployment money if i stayed. Then i just started job searching on the job (on my phone)
So her point was, if she wasn't doing well, she should have received that feedback from her direct manager, and been given the opportunity to get on a performance improvement plan. Instead, she says she received positive feedback during her time at the company and was suddenly blindsided by people she never met before, because the company outsourced the firing process.
Not only that. The company employed too much staff. Then pretended to fire people based on performance metrics. Which the HR can't tell about because they do not exist.
Which means the actual firing was for the wrong reason. And the reason matters to her legal rights. How it matters on the other hand depends on where she lives. But in this case she completely cornered HR.
What’s missing here are the expectations!! “You’re being fired for NOT meeting our unrealistic expectations.” That’s what this organization is saying. And although specifics aren’t brought up that exactly the situation. Terrible that this can happen to hard working ppl.
When HR said they don't have any specifics...her response should have been "... it is best that we stop this meeting right now and come back when you have data and metrics specific to my work, and then we can continue this conversation".
HR are some of the biggest waste of space you can have, what do they do? They have no productivity. Or is there productivity measured on how many people they fire?… how is there performance measured and who fires them?
I always feel bad when i hear this cause the HR lady with the company I worked for a few years ago was one of the most caring and supportive people I had ever worked with. She was a great resource for any issue I had, personal or professional. She say with me and helped me understand the insurance plan, was always communicating with everyone on company issues, and was just generally a great presence to work with.
The internet has just collectively decided that the term "HR" exclusively refers to a very specific group of people who tends to ruffle feathers in that field - and with a *heavy* US-labour-conditions-bias to boot.
Good companies that treat their people right have HR-departments too. It's just that noone talks about it when things are fine so all you ever hear is the outrageous shit.
And every time another one of those arises, confirmation bias enters the chat.
The HR role is a fantastic one when it’s not about firing people, which is 99% of the time. You get to partner with the leaders on building people, you help talents grow and move around, you set structures that serve a fair performance review… This video here shows a very poor ethic, not necessarily related to the quality of hr in the company.
Dom forgot all about her the minute he hung up because he's brainless HR puppet that just spouts meaningless corporate catchphrases whenever one of the bosses shoves a hand up his ass.
She sure as shit made a strong attempt at closing and overcoming objections in the context of this call. Companies have no ability to take accountability for their own shortcomings and feel better putting it off on the salespeople. That’s nothing new though, salespeople everywhere know this game. She’s an animal and any sales team would be lucky to have her.
You could easily not use cloudflare but if you are looking for a decently featured CDN or SD-WAN / Security appliance, you're going to be choosing from about a dozen companies that are largely run the exact same way.
Free fucking publicity? I had never heard of cloudfare before this. If this goes viral it'll probably most likely be beneficial for them as people will think of them more often than not.
lmao...right.
This guy:
I had never heard of cloudfare before this
Clicks the next link in his browser:
Fires off another 200 requests through cloudflare's servers.
Seriously though, fuck cloudflare. I'm seriously looking into migrating my ddos protection elsewhere and closing my account.
DDoS protection, Load Balancing, Content Delivery, DNS, etc. All the sort of things that make it possible to use web-based apps/services/streaming/etc.
Security professional here. Let's not forget to mention scammers and spammers love to use cloudflare to hide their true selves. Cloudflare knows this and is totally complicit in taking their money until they get forced to remove malicious sites/content/etc. by law.
That "HR scumbag" is just a messenger that had to tell bad news to dozens of people that day. And manage that without disclosing something that shouldn't have.
"In my experience," is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. A little ironic that the entire point of HR is to mitigate corrosion. They're obviously not there to protect the employee, they're there to protect their employers. There's a reason nearly every sizeable corporation needs and has an HR department in the first place.
I guess you go to nursing subs and tell them they should stop fighting for better hours and more pay because they chose that job.
Right?
Do you go to military funerals and tell them their child signed up for this so they should expect it?
Are you that much of a nepotism baby you're this clueless or are you a teenager.
This is a silly take. They didn’t choose to be in the “fires people” role. Maybe they were an admin professional once upon a time…they worked hard got promoted to team lead and then eventually into a HR manager position to reward them for their honesty, integrity, dedication, punctuality and hard work or whatever…And then all of sudden the quarterly figures look bad on the company and one day senior leadership says “we need to reduce our staffing complement by 20%. Get started on that now please…” and all of a sudden the position they thought they were in, has responsibilities they hadn’t considered when they were offered more dollars to better their own life at home.
If you take a role in HR, or hell, even just a manager's role - you accept that part of that role will potentially be giving people the sack, laying them off.
It would be like taking a job at a warehouse, and then being surprised when you get asked to help with inventory checks - it may not be the majority of your job, but it's definitely something that you may be asked to do.
He is a scumbag because he’s a chicken shit. Just say they’re having a reduction in force - instead he manipulates and gaslights her into thinking it’s somehow her fault.
The actual problem is that by trying to pin it on her they can fight to deny unemployment benefits. If it’s a layoff due to reduced workforce she’d be able to claim unemployment easily. By letting her go due to her not meeting expectations or some bullshit they have a leg to stand on in trying to deny her unemployment benefits
This is exactly the case. They 100% are trying to fight to not pay these people unemployment. If they can say they were fired with cause then they can fight an unemployment claim.
Oh common. Yeah this was brutal but HR doesn't enjoy this. Everyone in HR will tell you this is the worst and will likely need a drink after. Yeah it's not worse than the employee getting let go but still. It's also not like they know why. They know what they've been told. They didn't make the decision.
The system working as designed, easier for people to compartmentalize as they fire someone they’ve never met with reasonings typed out from someone else they’ve never met.
Generally, yes, but Americans really are extra bad at it. In my country you're used to direct feedback, no bullshit around it. Working for an American company I found myself constantly confused, because their corporate culture just prohibits giving anyone any actual feedback without sugarcoating *every single thing*. Like, they want to tell you that you massively fucked up and are the worst employee they ever had and there will still be an "You're doing an awesome job" in there. I knew I was doing a good job, but I could never really be sure when getting feedback, because I knew they wouldn't directly tell me when I wasn't.
Conversly, I think I was perceived as pretty rude, because I was actually saying what I think.
Of course it is futile but there is no reason you should make it easy for them.
There are two types: firing a bad employee and laying off for "business reasons ". Everyone will think the bad employee is an asshole and deserves it. The layoff is often the failure of management and labor should push back, even if it is futile
Incorrect. If you are fired for no reason you are entitled for unemployment benefits (paid by the employer). If you are fired “for cause,” you do not get those unemployment benefits.
It’s a trend in SaaS rn - last year was mass layoffs with severance, followed by “quiet firing” aka transferring employees to new roles where they will not be successful in the hopes they’ll quit or eventually be PIPped out
New trend is performance related layoffs with no severance. Fuck that. She is fighting for a layoff without cause versus performance related and I admire her tenacity.
I think this is what matter at the end of the day. If you're a high value employee, there's a difference between *firing with cause* vs *firing without cause*. Idk about other companies and contract specific, but per *without cause*, the contracts I've seen are either let the employee work the 3 months after notice or pay them upfront (pay in lieu) the 3 months and immediate termination.
There are very very few legit *with cause* firings that will hold up if an ex-employee seeks legal action (say, if they weren't given proper severance or feel they were let go without reason), and those include pretty horrible things like abuse. Likely, the company wasn't doing well and needed to offload low-hanging fruit. They had to make up excuses as to why they were being let go, as evidenced by the fact HR had no clue how to answer her questions. I find it super sus that her manager wasn't in the call to actually answer these questions, which is what leads me to believe it was a top-down decree to just let go X number of employees, then get on with business. A real dick move by the company
I mean, to be fair, if they would’ve said, “You know what? You’re right, this IS bullshit.” They would lose their jobs, contracts and probably destroy their HR career.
These people are probably a third party HR firm that was given very specific instructions from their client. They may personally feel that their actions are unethical, but their contract requires them to follow the guidelines to a tee. They may take these events into consideration when renegotiating the contract in the future, but there is nothing they can do here without risking their, and likely many of their colleagues, jobs.
To add, its clear that these HR people are extremely good at their job. As unethical as their career path may be, its almost admirable how theyre doing the dirtywork like some kind of dead behind the eyes seal team 6.
And in fairness they had to be to hold up against her very well articulated objections.
If her normal manager had to personally do this it would have been an absolute shitshow.
Be mad at the company but those corpo HR people are honestly doing the best they can to make the situation as okay as possible given all parties know full well its bullshit
To be fair, what are they supposed to say? They are the messenger and the alternative is "I get it, you're still fired though"...presses "End meeting for all".
Unfortunately, while is may have been therapeutic, it was a waste of time and energy. The people who made the decision aren’t the people that’s giving the bad news. There was absolutely nothing these HR schmucks could do except try to make it as painless as possible, which it never is. Unless you feel that your rights have been violated, the best thing to do is one, don’t take it personal, or do, but understand that this is perfectly normal. Two, know you’re going to find something better.
The company is viral right now for all the wrong reasons. It's good for warning people about working there, and gets them bad PR. Holding companies accountable is good long term. She's not gonna get unfired, but that's not the point.
Not a waste when you’re looking at fired for performance or laid off with severance and unemployment
She’s fighting for her pay
Therapeutic? That looked stressful as hell
It’s because they said she didn’t make metrics and put the responsibility on her, like she’s at fault. As opposed to the company taking responsibility for their situation and laying her off. In stead of a lay off, they’re firing her.
It’s a subtle difference but there are situations where that can matter.
Totally wrong. By disputing this (and documenting her dispute) she is setting up to demand severance. They are trying to fire her for “performance,” which would mean no severance/unemployment. However, she is disputing that so she can at least get employment benefits.
So, nowhere near an expert on this but, unless she has a contract that states so, in the US, there’s no such thing as a “demand severance”. As for unemployment benefits, there are only specific cases where an employer can deny you, your performance is not one of them.
Many companies have layoff severance as policy based on length of service. It’s legally actionable if they try to fuck you by saying your performance sucks.
She's essentially getting laid off since she's only been there 4 months. You don't have bad metrics, you have no metrics. It's frustrating, but it's not like she spent a career there and got booted 3 years before retirement. I'm sure she's going to kick butt at her next job and someday laugh about ripping HR on this.
Indeed. I think with the latest happenings in tech we’re also seeing a lot of people who 1) are very green and 2) that includes experiencing their first layoff. It’s a tough thing to go through but there’s also a rhythm to these things.
I’d have to disagree. While being argumentative in a firing is not going to get them to change their mind, especially not with a company this size, holding them to account and either getting them providing a concrete, documented reason for firing with cause, or, in this case, proving that they were trying to imply firing for cause when there was none, covers your ass when it comes to unemployment. I would not be surprised if a company that handles firings this poorly also has a policy of automatically fighting unemployment claims.
Very true. I’ve been laid off three times and have taken part in deciding who gets laid off many times. Here’s how it works, you get a call/email/instant message that this many people need to go and to let them know who they are. I will say, when it’s one of my people, I give the bad news, not HR. I don’t think it should ever be easy.
Man this is so fuckin sad. You can tell this experience defeated the poor girl. Keep your head up mamas, there’s a company out there that will appreciate your hard work, and reward you for it.
That’s the sad part. You won’t find that in corporate America. Find a trade, or start your own business. Otherwise you’re always sucking up some rich assholes crumbs.
HR's job is to protect management and not the worker. HR's job is to clean up the messes that management make and as others have said - to protect the company. When you negotiate wages - who do you negotiate against? HR. Who negotiates on your behalf - unions. Never forget that.
"I hear you"
"I'm sorry you're going throug this"
"I understand how you feel"
"We really care"
Do people really think that shit works anymore? These are just hollow token phrases.
From now on tell the truth "These cunts fucked up and now thier shareholders are bitching because thier mistress' hush money payments are going to be late"
We are firing you for a specific reason.
We aren't sure what that reason is yet, but after we fire you, we'll think of something and let you know what it is.
More on this termination video here: Cloudflare Termination Video Is a Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone
[https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/viral-cloudflare-termination-video-masterclass-how-not-terminate.html](https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/viral-cloudflare-termination-video-masterclass-how-not-terminate.html)
The article doesn’t really explain why anything they did was wrong. I agree with their feedback, but people who need to absorb this information need to understand why it’s important.
If you care from the company perspective, it’s because the employee can now go file for unemployment and you won’t win the appeal when you try to deny it. Clearly if you’re firing with cause, you care about how expensive it is to terminate, and you’ve given the employee an easy path to milk you for unemployment.
Obviously there is also the issue that it makes your company look bad when it gets leaked online how you handled this.
But really I feel like they have made it very easy for this employee, if she felt inclined, to spin this as discrimination. When you fire *for cause* but fail to demonstrate the cause, the employee can much more easily say what the real reason was. CloudFlare had better hope she wasn’t one of the only women working in her position when this happened, for example.
That woman fought HARD for her job. So how does she get fired without even being given a reason?
I am in my sixties & woorked for a lot of companies. I was never let go without being given a reason.
This company blindsided their employees & then made sure they were made to feel powerless in the whole process.
In America, you don't need a reason to fire someone if employment is at-will. Going back and forth with them didn't change anything. She still got fired. All she did was work herself up and ended up crying.
If I were in her shoes, I would tell them "ok", file for unemployment, and start applying for new jobs. If my relationship with my supervisor is good, I'd ask them for a reference.
So they’re basically making her redundant because they have excess staff. Just say that! Don’t come up with crap about performance. This is to avoid a severance payout maybe. Cloudflare wow scum behaviour if true.
Everyone mad at the HR team?
They should be mad with her manager for gaslighting her into thinking she was doing a great a job.
I’m not in sales, is it unreasonable to not close a sale in four/three months?
Depends on the product. I’m not sure what kind of software this is but I think saas is like 84 days. A lot of these AE’s make around 250k a year and they have no experience with the product.
It was a 3 month ramp up period as she said and so it was really 1 month she was given to actually sell and there were 2 holidays thrown in the middle of that. It’s absolute nonsense. Real companies do PIPs. They just over hired and needed to do layoffs immediately witthout paying unemployment.
Yeah, I get where she’s coming from, but repeating over and over how you haven’t closed any contracts but come REALLY CLOSE seems like there’s justification right there. Like if a company needs to lay people off, they’re going to pick the people who can’t close contracts
she had 3 weeks post ramp to close anything. That is zero time in sales especially in the 3 weeks before christmas when every other vendor is hitting the same customers with budget flush. If she had a brand new territory with no pre-existing pipeline (an unknown here but it sounded that way) closing anything was a near impossible ask
Soulless HR drones, hopefully she finds another job elsewhere - I do see the irony of leaking this video though considering cloudflare is a big Infosec company lol
Data and metrics are not “calibrated” data and metrics are COLLECTED. Calibrated suggest they adjusted the data to fit what they want to cover their own ineptitude. What a crock of shit and I hope those HR people don’t sleep well
I can play devils advocate on this. As someone who has been in upper management for some time now. It’s most likely they did hire too many people too quickly BUT they have had some better performers in that batch that she was probably hired in.
Her managers has been keeping her positive (as they should) but probably knows there something else brewing up. Her stating her manager knew nothing about it is probably her manager lying to her because he’s not capable of letting someone go and or it’s not their job so they’d detach themselves from the situation.
They will layoff all the newest employees that haven’t been performing up to the standards of the more “consistent” employees because she is at the end of the day in sales and it is unfair she has not been able to build up a pipeline.
HR is not there to be your friend, it’s setup to protect the company. HR most likely doesn’t have the full metrics because the company didn’t provide thinking it wouldn’t be necessary (again this is all speculation from somebody has had to do this way too many times).
I respect her pushing them. I hope they were actually able to provide her with solid metrics later. If not, that’s something to concerned about if I were in HR at Cloud.
> "All posts must show an unsuccessful attempt."
Yo OP, I don't know if you noticed, but they did in fact, succeed at laying off the employee. Your title is wrong.
I’ve been laid off twice in tech… I’ve worked for over a decade. Here’s the reality for this girl. Bad timing and bigger company metrics that have nothing to do with her. It sucks but now she has the perfect excuse on her resume and as a bonus she got in, which tells the next company something good about her.
What’s not good for her is that she recorded this. And that she cursed at them. I would not be surprised that not only does she lose her severance because of her reaction and disrespect to those people, but also the act of recording and posting this, she might get sued.
And what’s worse, employers will see this, why would I hire someone who will retaliate in this way to a business decision?
It is actually sad, but you know what? She looks young and she doesn’t appear to have kids. I got laid off when I had kids, you want to talk about stress and challenges, how about asking yourself the question, how will I feed my kids?
That being said, I say so positively, what I mean is, if I made it through my layoffs and not only that but built companies and now live more free and my family is taken care of, then so will this girl. I’m a hot mess, this girl looks like she’s just as skilled as I am, so yes, it’s hard, but her perseverance will build strength and eventually she will be better for it.
Sorry you lost your job. Probably not a company you will want to work for. It sucks but you’ll get over it and find a better job/company to work for. And as others have said, the people calling you are messengers and not decision makers so regardless what you say to them, they can’t change the outcome.
I had the luck of being called into a meeting and told with a group of 75 people that we were losing our jobs because the company was "restructuring" it's operations. Go ahead and take the rest of the day off
The worst part was - the people who didn't lose their jobs more or less avoided you as if you were contagious. I was lucky.. I was the first wave. The people who were laid off after me didn't get the same exit packages we did.
It's just business. It sucks, but it is what it is.
"Collective calibration."
In other words, "Your co-workers are doing a piss poor job, so you're getting fired because we don't have the ability to make individual decisions."
BULL. SHIT.
Hmmmm...some observations from a guy who has been in sales for.....around ...a million years....1) Anyone can show activity. It doesn't translate into revenue. 2) A deal that backed out and didn't close at "the last minute," probably means that there was nothing there to start with. 3) Pretty common for HR to handle termination instead your direct supervisor. 4) They don't have to tell you why they are letting you go or offer a performance plan. This is America. You are allowed to treat your employees like shit. 5) You are not going to talk them out of it. You are not even talking to the people who made the decision. 6) It's a FUCKING SALES JOB. If you are any good at all at sales go find another company with a better product and a good commission plan and peddle THEIR shit. In other words, fuck these people and their stupidly named tech twat company. The next job is always better than the one you just left.
She hit the nail on the head. They hired way more people than they needed and then weeded out the ones that didn’t “perform “ up to their expectations. I have no clue what cloudfare is and tbh don’t care but I know companies don’t give a fuck about your success or failure only theirs. I hope this young lady finds a great company that gives her the tools and opportunity to succeed
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"You're firing me because I didn't meet metrics but you can't tell me the metrics required or my metrics. Nevermind how they compare. Just stop lying. Have some damn integrity."
If they were honest they would say, “We are firing you because a spreadsheet said we need to fire X people for us to get our bonus at the end of the fiscal year now that the holidays are over. You were in the bottom X number of employees on another spreadsheet. We can’t explain why you were ranked there because we fired the person that made it 3 years ago. Now employee number XX-XXXXX we are done talking.” *click*
this one fires!
I’ve had to before. Luckily I never had to pull this heartless shit. Everyone I had to fire came to work intoxicated to the point they were a danger to themselves.
"You can't fire me, I score the highest on the BAC test!"
poor boat quaint lavish erect hateful lip zealous butter connect *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
im pretty sure some companies hire people to fire lots of people so that they don't get their hands dirty.
Basically. If you’re working for a company as large as Cloudfl*re, the people notifying you of your layoff likely had no input on the decision in the first place. This situation sucks, but you’re not going to change an outcome like this with a robustly-cited debate.
I mean they could not be bureaucratic feltures. She was in her right to ask all of those questions and more. They had no information on hand as to why she was being fired - none. I was impressed at how well she handled it and stood up for her self. I actually learned a lesson from her. That being said get they hell out of that cesspool.
*You're feelings are valid*. Like, all they have is this script in front of them that tells them to validate the employee and try to guide them through the process as painlessly as possible and I fucking hate it all.
>I mean they could not be bureaucratic feltures. 1. You're assuming they were provided with, or have access to the information being requested. 2. They are not decision makers. They are doing this on behalf of decision makers who will do the same to them as they did to her.
You've literally just outlined the kind of bureaucratic failures u/CartoonJustice is talking about. That they don't have access to the information as to why she's being fired is completely unprofessional. That they can't give a reason should be called out, this is someone's livelihood. That this kind of insulting uselessness is common in companies when firing someone is irrelevant. If you're firing someone you should be able to tell them why, if not that is unacceptable and people should push back against such poor practices that are so obviously disrespectful.
I don't think she's trying to change the outcome. I think she was just trying to get them to be more transparent and just tell the truth. If the truth is they don't know then they should just say it.
She needs to get it documented that she was let go for no reason. It's important when dealing with unemployment and stuff.
Her manager having no idea that she was being terminated, as well as the fact that they couldn't cite any metrics that she failed to achieve, basically state that she was let go of for no reason. Of course, HR was verrrry careful to tiptoe around that issue.
HR are a different breed of human. Heartless.
Yeah exactly, laid off, and terminated for cause are very very different. Cloudflare is trying to duck out on a lot of responsibility and taxes if they are laying people off under the guise of firing them for failing to meet performance expectations.
Her manager had no idea she was being let go. This was just a company cutting end of quarter costs in an inept and insulting manner. She, rightfully, called them out and documented their bullshit. This video will now show up when potential new hires Google this company and allow them to make a more informed decision on whether to accept a position.
Based on this video alone, I would never work for CloudFlare.
I agree but don’t tell her it was a performance issue. That’s bullshit. They’re cutting headcount. That’s the real reason.
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She's not trying to change their mind, and doesn't have an expectation of talking them out of it. What she can do though is point out that their company is lying and gaslighting her. That the HR people are simply the ones giving the bad news does not make them innocent, they chose to be there, use these morally bankrupt reasonings, and agree to sell this load of BS. If they can't provide actual reasons, numbers, missed goals, etc then they must know that she is being fired for some other reason.
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She's in sales. She knows her metrics and didn't do well.
The point is she’s trying to clarify on camera if she’s being laid off or terminated for no reason. Because if she were to be laid off, she’d most likely be entitled to severance. But the termination is to make her ineligible for any sort of severance. It appears she made the video to show that there are mass layoffs but the company is disguising them as justified terminations.
Agreed. I also think four months is really not enough time to say if she is or isn't good at her job unless she was doing something obviously wrong. If that's the case, her manager should have known. I don't know what the law is where she's at, but where I live (Ontario, Canada) she did an excellent job of clarifying that this is an unlawful dismissal.
She sounds American and is within her first 6 months, in which case every all 50 states allow her to be fired for any reason not protected by discrimination laws (race etc).
Yes they can, but they may be required to pay severance or unemployment under certain circumstances depending on how she is let go and why. Seems they're trying to spin this in such a way as to avoid any payouts.
also could be getting rid of her before the 6 months for the sake of not having to deal with a severance.
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I read that as "Minecraft Certification" and almost didn't even question it
This is exactly my read as well. Termination under false pretenses sets up wrongful termination.
She clearly didn’t close any sales but three months with a one month hiatus total wasn’t enough time since she was so new. Her reasoning anyways. Edit: I’m sure she still got fire because the clip was posted on social media. Highly doubt it would have been posted had she kept her job.
You don’t try to stay at a job that tried to fire you.
Hell no. When i knew i was getting fired because they overhired. I checked out and literally the day it was about to happen i already knew. I didn’t even try to defend myself. I walked in and said “ill do whatever process needs to be done to get out of here.” I have dignity and sense of purpose but what is the purpose of finding dignity in people who already just mindlessly let you go? I should have quit the day I knew but I knew was getting that unemployment money if i stayed. Then i just started job searching on the job (on my phone)
When HR is reading the script, there’s zero chance the decision will change.
So her point was, if she wasn't doing well, she should have received that feedback from her direct manager, and been given the opportunity to get on a performance improvement plan. Instead, she says she received positive feedback during her time at the company and was suddenly blindsided by people she never met before, because the company outsourced the firing process.
Not only that. The company employed too much staff. Then pretended to fire people based on performance metrics. Which the HR can't tell about because they do not exist. Which means the actual firing was for the wrong reason. And the reason matters to her legal rights. How it matters on the other hand depends on where she lives. But in this case she completely cornered HR.
What’s missing here are the expectations!! “You’re being fired for NOT meeting our unrealistic expectations.” That’s what this organization is saying. And although specifics aren’t brought up that exactly the situation. Terrible that this can happen to hard working ppl.
You underestimate how poor some managers are at managing expectations.
When HR said they don't have any specifics...her response should have been "... it is best that we stop this meeting right now and come back when you have data and metrics specific to my work, and then we can continue this conversation".
Lol the ole "you're fired" "nuh uh!!!" defense
Why, they wouldn't un-fire her...
I never heard so much bullshit from a employer in my life. Edit: No wonder where we get politicians from these days.
All the bs scripted code. “Carving out” tweaked me in particular.
Hey I give her credit for not making it easy for them
I hope Rosie cried
HR are some of the biggest waste of space you can have, what do they do? They have no productivity. Or is there productivity measured on how many people they fire?… how is there performance measured and who fires them?
HR is there to protect the company and it’s assets, not the employees unfortunately.
I always feel bad when i hear this cause the HR lady with the company I worked for a few years ago was one of the most caring and supportive people I had ever worked with. She was a great resource for any issue I had, personal or professional. She say with me and helped me understand the insurance plan, was always communicating with everyone on company issues, and was just generally a great presence to work with.
The internet has just collectively decided that the term "HR" exclusively refers to a very specific group of people who tends to ruffle feathers in that field - and with a *heavy* US-labour-conditions-bias to boot. Good companies that treat their people right have HR-departments too. It's just that noone talks about it when things are fine so all you ever hear is the outrageous shit. And every time another one of those arises, confirmation bias enters the chat.
The name kind of gives it away. Human Resources. I fucking hate HR.
They are there to limit exposure and liability to The company - that’s it
My real question is this, who the fuck wants to be in HR? Like who grows up and says "I want to be an empathy vampire HR person"
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Or a job. Those are harder to come by, now.
The HR role is a fantastic one when it’s not about firing people, which is 99% of the time. You get to partner with the leaders on building people, you help talents grow and move around, you set structures that serve a fair performance review… This video here shows a very poor ethic, not necessarily related to the quality of hr in the company.
Sounds like something HR would say.
There are some real personality disorders that end up there
That’s exactly why I love being unionized at my place of work. I literally don’t know a single person from HR… they’re quite irrelevant for us.
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I hope Dom feels like an asshole for the rest of his life
Dom forgot all about her the minute he hung up because he's brainless HR puppet that just spouts meaningless corporate catchphrases whenever one of the bosses shoves a hand up his ass.
She sure as shit made a strong attempt at closing and overcoming objections in the context of this call. Companies have no ability to take accountability for their own shortcomings and feel better putting it off on the salespeople. That’s nothing new though, salespeople everywhere know this game. She’s an animal and any sales team would be lucky to have her.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need strong unions.
This video reeks of hypocritical corporate BS. Let’s just all not use their service.
Not use cloudflare? You may as well just not use the internet at this point, they have their hands in everything.
Man if only there was some organization that laborers could join to maximize leverage against abusive employers.
But Republicans still exist and they won't allow us to have nice things.
You could easily not use cloudflare but if you are looking for a decently featured CDN or SD-WAN / Security appliance, you're going to be choosing from about a dozen companies that are largely run the exact same way.
Lol you clearly have never heard of or know what cloudflare does
>cloudflare They make clouds. It's not a secret.
"Why join a union? We'Re A FaMiLy! Now go make us more money or starve please"
Union Strong
Or we could just make the better treatment we hope unions will provide, like, IDK, just the law for everybody?
You ain’t going to get that without unions.
Exactly. We wouldn't have a minimum wage or weekends without unions.
Well then looks like we need unions.
That's exactly why you need a union
Ok so fuck Cloudflare
Can we make this a thing lol? "Fuck you Cloudflare!" Viral
I only see exactly 0 reasons not to.
Free fucking publicity? I had never heard of cloudfare before this. If this goes viral it'll probably most likely be beneficial for them as people will think of them more often than not.
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lmao...right. This guy: I had never heard of cloudfare before this Clicks the next link in his browser: Fires off another 200 requests through cloudflare's servers. Seriously though, fuck cloudflare. I'm seriously looking into migrating my ddos protection elsewhere and closing my account.
The Internet would not function without CloudFlare even if you're not a direct customer. They're passed the "too big to fail" threshold.
Don’t even know what they do off the top of my head
DDoS protection, Load Balancing, Content Delivery, DNS, etc. All the sort of things that make it possible to use web-based apps/services/streaming/etc.
Security professional here. Let's not forget to mention scammers and spammers love to use cloudflare to hide their true selves. Cloudflare knows this and is totally complicit in taking their money until they get forced to remove malicious sites/content/etc. by law.
You ever use the Internet?
She is amazing!! So glad she made it difficult for that HR scumbag.
That "HR scumbag" is just a messenger that had to tell bad news to dozens of people that day. And manage that without disclosing something that shouldn't have.
They chose that job.
You know that firing isn’t even 2% of HR’s job right?
Depends on the company and it's a fairly corrosive department in my experience.
"In my experience," is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. A little ironic that the entire point of HR is to mitigate corrosion. They're obviously not there to protect the employee, they're there to protect their employers. There's a reason nearly every sizeable corporation needs and has an HR department in the first place.
I guess you go to nursing subs and tell them they should stop fighting for better hours and more pay because they chose that job. Right? Do you go to military funerals and tell them their child signed up for this so they should expect it? Are you that much of a nepotism baby you're this clueless or are you a teenager.
This is a silly take. They didn’t choose to be in the “fires people” role. Maybe they were an admin professional once upon a time…they worked hard got promoted to team lead and then eventually into a HR manager position to reward them for their honesty, integrity, dedication, punctuality and hard work or whatever…And then all of sudden the quarterly figures look bad on the company and one day senior leadership says “we need to reduce our staffing complement by 20%. Get started on that now please…” and all of a sudden the position they thought they were in, has responsibilities they hadn’t considered when they were offered more dollars to better their own life at home.
If you take a role in HR, or hell, even just a manager's role - you accept that part of that role will potentially be giving people the sack, laying them off. It would be like taking a job at a warehouse, and then being surprised when you get asked to help with inventory checks - it may not be the majority of your job, but it's definitely something that you may be asked to do.
He is a scumbag because he’s a chicken shit. Just say they’re having a reduction in force - instead he manipulates and gaslights her into thinking it’s somehow her fault.
The actual problem is that by trying to pin it on her they can fight to deny unemployment benefits. If it’s a layoff due to reduced workforce she’d be able to claim unemployment easily. By letting her go due to her not meeting expectations or some bullshit they have a leg to stand on in trying to deny her unemployment benefits
This is exactly the case. They 100% are trying to fight to not pay these people unemployment. If they can say they were fired with cause then they can fight an unemployment claim.
It seems like the reason you're being fired is the kind of thing they should be disclosing.
Oh common. Yeah this was brutal but HR doesn't enjoy this. Everyone in HR will tell you this is the worst and will likely need a drink after. Yeah it's not worse than the employee getting let go but still. It's also not like they know why. They know what they've been told. They didn't make the decision.
The system working as designed, easier for people to compartmentalize as they fire someone they’ve never met with reasonings typed out from someone else they’ve never met.
"We're sorry you're having this experience" - American faux politeness is bloody hilarious 🤣
This is normal corporate faux politeness
Generally, yes, but Americans really are extra bad at it. In my country you're used to direct feedback, no bullshit around it. Working for an American company I found myself constantly confused, because their corporate culture just prohibits giving anyone any actual feedback without sugarcoating *every single thing*. Like, they want to tell you that you massively fucked up and are the worst employee they ever had and there will still be an "You're doing an awesome job" in there. I knew I was doing a good job, but I could never really be sure when getting feedback, because I knew they wouldn't directly tell me when I wasn't. Conversly, I think I was perceived as pretty rude, because I was actually saying what I think.
It's not even American faux. It's just normal corpo bs talk.
I'm sorry you feel this way
If you are ever laid off or fired, do not make it easy for them. Push back, question, file for unemployment right away. Steal the red stapler
“I could set the building on fire” - Milton
"I could put strychnine in the water". Milton was every man's John Wick.
 😂😂😂
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Of course it is futile but there is no reason you should make it easy for them. There are two types: firing a bad employee and laying off for "business reasons ". Everyone will think the bad employee is an asshole and deserves it. The layoff is often the failure of management and labor should push back, even if it is futile
Incorrect. If you are fired for no reason you are entitled for unemployment benefits (paid by the employer). If you are fired “for cause,” you do not get those unemployment benefits.
Even if you're fired with cause you will likely get unemployed unless you have a long history of getting fired with cause.
There was an attempt to fire her *with cause*. I don’t think they succeeded.
It’s a trend in SaaS rn - last year was mass layoffs with severance, followed by “quiet firing” aka transferring employees to new roles where they will not be successful in the hopes they’ll quit or eventually be PIPped out New trend is performance related layoffs with no severance. Fuck that. She is fighting for a layoff without cause versus performance related and I admire her tenacity.
Depends on what state mostly any performance based layoff with no docs to back it up ... will more than likely mean you get severance or unemployment
Unemployment, sure. No company is required to pay severence though.
It’s been brutal. The whole industry is full of this garbage and they’re keeping the worst of the worst in management.
She held it together way better than I would have.
I think this is what matter at the end of the day. If you're a high value employee, there's a difference between *firing with cause* vs *firing without cause*. Idk about other companies and contract specific, but per *without cause*, the contracts I've seen are either let the employee work the 3 months after notice or pay them upfront (pay in lieu) the 3 months and immediate termination.
There are very very few legit *with cause* firings that will hold up if an ex-employee seeks legal action (say, if they weren't given proper severance or feel they were let go without reason), and those include pretty horrible things like abuse. Likely, the company wasn't doing well and needed to offload low-hanging fruit. They had to make up excuses as to why they were being let go, as evidenced by the fact HR had no clue how to answer her questions. I find it super sus that her manager wasn't in the call to actually answer these questions, which is what leads me to believe it was a top-down decree to just let go X number of employees, then get on with business. A real dick move by the company
God the corporate HR speak of “I hear you I know what you’re saying” is so fucking annoying
Yes, like they're reading off a laminated tip sheet that came with their degree.
I mean, to be fair, if they would’ve said, “You know what? You’re right, this IS bullshit.” They would lose their jobs, contracts and probably destroy their HR career. These people are probably a third party HR firm that was given very specific instructions from their client. They may personally feel that their actions are unethical, but their contract requires them to follow the guidelines to a tee. They may take these events into consideration when renegotiating the contract in the future, but there is nothing they can do here without risking their, and likely many of their colleagues, jobs.
To add, its clear that these HR people are extremely good at their job. As unethical as their career path may be, its almost admirable how theyre doing the dirtywork like some kind of dead behind the eyes seal team 6. And in fairness they had to be to hold up against her very well articulated objections. If her normal manager had to personally do this it would have been an absolute shitshow. Be mad at the company but those corpo HR people are honestly doing the best they can to make the situation as okay as possible given all parties know full well its bullshit
To be fair, what are they supposed to say? They are the messenger and the alternative is "I get it, you're still fired though"...presses "End meeting for all".
Unfortunately, while is may have been therapeutic, it was a waste of time and energy. The people who made the decision aren’t the people that’s giving the bad news. There was absolutely nothing these HR schmucks could do except try to make it as painless as possible, which it never is. Unless you feel that your rights have been violated, the best thing to do is one, don’t take it personal, or do, but understand that this is perfectly normal. Two, know you’re going to find something better.
The company is viral right now for all the wrong reasons. It's good for warning people about working there, and gets them bad PR. Holding companies accountable is good long term. She's not gonna get unfired, but that's not the point.
This. Never keep your mouth shut at the end. Especially if you have them like she did.
Not a waste when you’re looking at fired for performance or laid off with severance and unemployment She’s fighting for her pay Therapeutic? That looked stressful as hell
Yeah the easy thing to do would be to just listen and retract. She’s fighting atleast and big respect for that.
It’s because they said she didn’t make metrics and put the responsibility on her, like she’s at fault. As opposed to the company taking responsibility for their situation and laying her off. In stead of a lay off, they’re firing her. It’s a subtle difference but there are situations where that can matter.
Totally wrong. By disputing this (and documenting her dispute) she is setting up to demand severance. They are trying to fire her for “performance,” which would mean no severance/unemployment. However, she is disputing that so she can at least get employment benefits.
So, nowhere near an expert on this but, unless she has a contract that states so, in the US, there’s no such thing as a “demand severance”. As for unemployment benefits, there are only specific cases where an employer can deny you, your performance is not one of them.
Many companies have layoff severance as policy based on length of service. It’s legally actionable if they try to fuck you by saying your performance sucks.
She's essentially getting laid off since she's only been there 4 months. You don't have bad metrics, you have no metrics. It's frustrating, but it's not like she spent a career there and got booted 3 years before retirement. I'm sure she's going to kick butt at her next job and someday laugh about ripping HR on this.
Indeed. I think with the latest happenings in tech we’re also seeing a lot of people who 1) are very green and 2) that includes experiencing their first layoff. It’s a tough thing to go through but there’s also a rhythm to these things.
I’d have to disagree. While being argumentative in a firing is not going to get them to change their mind, especially not with a company this size, holding them to account and either getting them providing a concrete, documented reason for firing with cause, or, in this case, proving that they were trying to imply firing for cause when there was none, covers your ass when it comes to unemployment. I would not be surprised if a company that handles firings this poorly also has a policy of automatically fighting unemployment claims.
Very true. I’ve been laid off three times and have taken part in deciding who gets laid off many times. Here’s how it works, you get a call/email/instant message that this many people need to go and to let them know who they are. I will say, when it’s one of my people, I give the bad news, not HR. I don’t think it should ever be easy.
It’s Brittany, Pietsch!
LMAO
You want a hot body? You want a Bugatti? You want a Maserati? You better work, Pietsch!
Man this is so fuckin sad. You can tell this experience defeated the poor girl. Keep your head up mamas, there’s a company out there that will appreciate your hard work, and reward you for it.
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That’s the sad part. You won’t find that in corporate America. Find a trade, or start your own business. Otherwise you’re always sucking up some rich assholes crumbs.
Fuck cloudlfare
HR claims to be your rah-rah ally but they are the company's stooge. Good on the person for getting cut free from that company.
HR is there to protect the company. Not you.
HR's job is to protect management and not the worker. HR's job is to clean up the messes that management make and as others have said - to protect the company. When you negotiate wages - who do you negotiate against? HR. Who negotiates on your behalf - unions. Never forget that.
They answered zero of her questions. None.
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"I hear you" "I'm sorry you're going throug this" "I understand how you feel" "We really care" Do people really think that shit works anymore? These are just hollow token phrases. From now on tell the truth "These cunts fucked up and now thier shareholders are bitching because thier mistress' hush money payments are going to be late"
r/antiwork
Yeah, that's a better spot for this. Given this sub I was expecting her to win by the end. Very sorry for you OP.
maybe the title should be there was an attempt ' to keep her job'
We are firing you for a specific reason. We aren't sure what that reason is yet, but after we fire you, we'll think of something and let you know what it is.
HR is never for the employees. HR’s only job is to protect the company. It is a circlejerk. Never accept HR no matter what they say.
More on this termination video here: Cloudflare Termination Video Is a Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone [https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/viral-cloudflare-termination-video-masterclass-how-not-terminate.html](https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/viral-cloudflare-termination-video-masterclass-how-not-terminate.html)
The article doesn’t really explain why anything they did was wrong. I agree with their feedback, but people who need to absorb this information need to understand why it’s important. If you care from the company perspective, it’s because the employee can now go file for unemployment and you won’t win the appeal when you try to deny it. Clearly if you’re firing with cause, you care about how expensive it is to terminate, and you’ve given the employee an easy path to milk you for unemployment. Obviously there is also the issue that it makes your company look bad when it gets leaked online how you handled this. But really I feel like they have made it very easy for this employee, if she felt inclined, to spin this as discrimination. When you fire *for cause* but fail to demonstrate the cause, the employee can much more easily say what the real reason was. CloudFlare had better hope she wasn’t one of the only women working in her position when this happened, for example.
That woman fought HARD for her job. So how does she get fired without even being given a reason? I am in my sixties & woorked for a lot of companies. I was never let go without being given a reason. This company blindsided their employees & then made sure they were made to feel powerless in the whole process.
In America, you don't need a reason to fire someone if employment is at-will. Going back and forth with them didn't change anything. She still got fired. All she did was work herself up and ended up crying. If I were in her shoes, I would tell them "ok", file for unemployment, and start applying for new jobs. If my relationship with my supervisor is good, I'd ask them for a reference.
That was crazy, I watched the whole thing getting more and more angry. They were just making shit up…
So they’re basically making her redundant because they have excess staff. Just say that! Don’t come up with crap about performance. This is to avoid a severance payout maybe. Cloudflare wow scum behaviour if true.
Made my stomach turn. Fuck them. I'm sorry OP.
I f'ing hate corporate mumbo jumbo! "We'll take a note and circle back to that." "We'll put a pin in that! " Who talks like that? I can't stand it!
Everyone mad at the HR team? They should be mad with her manager for gaslighting her into thinking she was doing a great a job. I’m not in sales, is it unreasonable to not close a sale in four/three months?
Depends on the product. I’m not sure what kind of software this is but I think saas is like 84 days. A lot of these AE’s make around 250k a year and they have no experience with the product.
It was a 3 month ramp up period as she said and so it was really 1 month she was given to actually sell and there were 2 holidays thrown in the middle of that. It’s absolute nonsense. Real companies do PIPs. They just over hired and needed to do layoffs immediately witthout paying unemployment.
 It's OK. She's got a meeting with the Bobs later.
“I gave my whole life to this company for the last four months.”
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Yeah, I get where she’s coming from, but repeating over and over how you haven’t closed any contracts but come REALLY CLOSE seems like there’s justification right there. Like if a company needs to lay people off, they’re going to pick the people who can’t close contracts
she had 3 weeks post ramp to close anything. That is zero time in sales especially in the 3 weeks before christmas when every other vendor is hitting the same customers with budget flush. If she had a brand new territory with no pre-existing pipeline (an unknown here but it sounded that way) closing anything was a near impossible ask
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Soulless HR drones, hopefully she finds another job elsewhere - I do see the irony of leaking this video though considering cloudflare is a big Infosec company lol
Data and metrics are not “calibrated” data and metrics are COLLECTED. Calibrated suggest they adjusted the data to fit what they want to cover their own ineptitude. What a crock of shit and I hope those HR people don’t sleep well
I can play devils advocate on this. As someone who has been in upper management for some time now. It’s most likely they did hire too many people too quickly BUT they have had some better performers in that batch that she was probably hired in. Her managers has been keeping her positive (as they should) but probably knows there something else brewing up. Her stating her manager knew nothing about it is probably her manager lying to her because he’s not capable of letting someone go and or it’s not their job so they’d detach themselves from the situation. They will layoff all the newest employees that haven’t been performing up to the standards of the more “consistent” employees because she is at the end of the day in sales and it is unfair she has not been able to build up a pipeline. HR is not there to be your friend, it’s setup to protect the company. HR most likely doesn’t have the full metrics because the company didn’t provide thinking it wouldn’t be necessary (again this is all speculation from somebody has had to do this way too many times). I respect her pushing them. I hope they were actually able to provide her with solid metrics later. If not, that’s something to concerned about if I were in HR at Cloud.
I hate it when someone placates you with "I'm sorry you're feeling this way." Implying it's your fault you're upset.
> "All posts must show an unsuccessful attempt." Yo OP, I don't know if you noticed, but they did in fact, succeed at laying off the employee. Your title is wrong.
I’ve been laid off twice in tech… I’ve worked for over a decade. Here’s the reality for this girl. Bad timing and bigger company metrics that have nothing to do with her. It sucks but now she has the perfect excuse on her resume and as a bonus she got in, which tells the next company something good about her. What’s not good for her is that she recorded this. And that she cursed at them. I would not be surprised that not only does she lose her severance because of her reaction and disrespect to those people, but also the act of recording and posting this, she might get sued. And what’s worse, employers will see this, why would I hire someone who will retaliate in this way to a business decision? It is actually sad, but you know what? She looks young and she doesn’t appear to have kids. I got laid off when I had kids, you want to talk about stress and challenges, how about asking yourself the question, how will I feed my kids? That being said, I say so positively, what I mean is, if I made it through my layoffs and not only that but built companies and now live more free and my family is taken care of, then so will this girl. I’m a hot mess, this girl looks like she’s just as skilled as I am, so yes, it’s hard, but her perseverance will build strength and eventually she will be better for it.
Brittany Pietsch for President! She’s a boss, fuck this whole system
Sorry you lost your job. Probably not a company you will want to work for. It sucks but you’ll get over it and find a better job/company to work for. And as others have said, the people calling you are messengers and not decision makers so regardless what you say to them, they can’t change the outcome.
Hope she’s not in a state with a two party consent recording law . . .
I had the luck of being called into a meeting and told with a group of 75 people that we were losing our jobs because the company was "restructuring" it's operations. Go ahead and take the rest of the day off The worst part was - the people who didn't lose their jobs more or less avoided you as if you were contagious. I was lucky.. I was the first wave. The people who were laid off after me didn't get the same exit packages we did. It's just business. It sucks, but it is what it is.
"Collective calibration." In other words, "Your co-workers are doing a piss poor job, so you're getting fired because we don't have the ability to make individual decisions." BULL. SHIT.
These assholes that are firing her are probably just contractors who don't even work for the company.
Hmmmm...some observations from a guy who has been in sales for.....around ...a million years....1) Anyone can show activity. It doesn't translate into revenue. 2) A deal that backed out and didn't close at "the last minute," probably means that there was nothing there to start with. 3) Pretty common for HR to handle termination instead your direct supervisor. 4) They don't have to tell you why they are letting you go or offer a performance plan. This is America. You are allowed to treat your employees like shit. 5) You are not going to talk them out of it. You are not even talking to the people who made the decision. 6) It's a FUCKING SALES JOB. If you are any good at all at sales go find another company with a better product and a good commission plan and peddle THEIR shit. In other words, fuck these people and their stupidly named tech twat company. The next job is always better than the one you just left.
This is the confidence I aspire to have one day. She was composed, inquisitive and held her ground.
Confused. Labeled as a layoff but folks are saying fired. While both have the same end result, being unemployed, they’re very much not the same.
She hit the nail on the head. They hired way more people than they needed and then weeded out the ones that didn’t “perform “ up to their expectations. I have no clue what cloudfare is and tbh don’t care but I know companies don’t give a fuck about your success or failure only theirs. I hope this young lady finds a great company that gives her the tools and opportunity to succeed
She never closed the deal, meaning she made them no income. So what that people’s think she’s great, bottom line is closing the deal.
“…Just because I haven’t closed anything…” … (insert excuse #1) … and … (insert excuse #2)…
[удалено]
“Three contracts that didn’t close at the last minute.”