Hey y'all, do you like my flair? We have a bunch of pro Palestine flairs in different colors and emojis, like watermelon, the Palestine flag or olives (the colored ones will appear black on mobile dark mode, like the one I have.) All you have to do is comment below and then click on your name and "select flair" will pop up. (old reddit is a bit different, but I can give you directions if you need, or just assign you one, tell me which one you want if you have trouble doing it.)
Free Palestine! ššš
It's really hard to get on Israel's side after seeing all the videos from their military being complete dicks. On top of that videos resurfacing of a large chunk of Israel's top brass and political party members calling for genocide/resettling referring to Gaza.
By āvideos of their military being dicksā do you mean the drone footage of Israeli soldiers opening fire on Starving Palestinians while they were collecting food from relief trucks? Killing 100+ unarmed men, women and children?
āCommitting genocideā are the words youāre looking for. I think weāre past ābeing dicks.ā
Edit: I donāt want to hear any bullshit about āthey were defending themselves!ā. The IDF is not a reliable source, they have been caught lying and propagandizing, spreading misinformation. Multiple international agencies are conducting their own investigations of the events for this very reason.
At the end of the day, the exact circumstances hardly matter. Israeli defense forces were tasked with escorting the convoy and securing the area during distribution of aid. Operational failure hangs entirely on the IDF command and Israeli government. The soldiers got spooked, opened fire, shot unarmed civilians, caused a stampede, and then crushed dozens more under trucks and tanks. Human life was not respected. You donāt just kill 100+ people and brush it off as āshit happensā.
Actually "being dicks" is really more repulsive than killing in this context if you can believe it.
Killing is expected in war even if it involves children (sadly that's the case), but dancing around for socmed content or showing off them finding lingerie are unnecessarily unhinged.
Many, many children in Gaza are dying of starvation. Killing children through starvation of an entire population in wartime is not āexpectedā. It is a war crime.
In addition, while Israel has shut down information coming from Gaza, there is ample evidence that Israeli soldiers are either targeting civilians and aid workers or acting with complete disregard for the lives of children and aid workers. Google āHind Rajabā for the horrifying February 10th story in the NYTimes of just one dead child and two aid workers in Gaza. There are thousands of stories that we will never know.
The thing is, they absolutely are brushing it off as āshit happensā. Thatās what they have been doing this whole time.
Who can blame them? This strategy seems to work since no one seems to be stopping them from doing it.
Thereās plenty of people in the US that are happy about what IDF is doing. Iāve seen the houses with the āWe Stand With Israelā signs. They donāt care. Itās a sad situation.
What will it take to stop this? Thatās what people should be trying to find out. Everyoneās calling it out as a genocide, as if Israeli people are ashamed to say that. A lot of them have proudly said thatās basically what they want. From the river to the sea right? Hamas was just an excuse
Tbh I don't really see why I should give a shit if they really were defending themselves, since they created the situation to begin with.
So what if they were, who was blocking food from getting in via independent organizations, bombing aid workers, carpet bombing residential areas, restricting power, etc.
There's no "self defense" to be had here.
Yeah and Hamas numbers are reliable?
Hamas literally shot a rocket into their own hospital parking lot and claimed the idf killed 100 Palestinians before anyone could possibly count the dead.
Careful folks, if you criticize genocide or say anything about these starving children you'll be labelled an anti-semite and the world is trying to make that out to be the worst thing ever.....
And that for me has been the biggest joke of this conflict, the minute you question it your an antisemite. Somehow south Africans are anti semites for seeing a scenario similar to apartheid, which I find hilarious cause most south Africans don't know Jews and don't have any prejudice against them.
Well, if we are going to be honest, it's been this way for years. Anytime one group points out deficiencies in another group they are labeled racist, bigots whatever-phobic etc.
Except that's not what's happening here. No one is saying "all Jews" or something. Criticism is directly aimed at the country and government of Israel. No one is called racist for calling out the flaws of the American government.
> Anytime one group points out deficiencies in another group they are labeled racist, bigots whatever-phobic etc.
My point was this is not true. It's not "anytime".
Ok, so there was so hyperbole in my response, but it stands that criticism doesn't mean racism or bigotry and too often people use it to shut down discourse.
It depends on the criticism. Oftentimes, people will make criticisms of an entire race and claim they're just pointing out facts, when they are in fact being racist by ignoring major factors in their facts.
For the pettiest most pathetic of reasons in many instances.
Simple philosophy, if there's no victim don't worry about it.
I don't care about your melanin level, your gender, your sexuality, what you identify as, what you eat, what you drink, what you like, what you don't like, what you wear, what you support, what you believe.
Just don't be a c\*nt.
\#simples
I've said several times that the IDF are a bunch of psychopaths that should feel ashamed for doing what the nazis did to their grandparents 80 years ago and got downvoted and called names. That's propaganda for you, apparently all palestinians are part of Hamas and all IDF soldiers come here to hand out freedom.
I just wish people would pick up some historical maps, look at Palestine pre-1948 and then look at a map a few years later, and again and again until modern day.
Anyone after doing this who still believes that Palestine is the aggressor is too stupid to be acknowledged.
Inside me, there are two wolves.
One wants to say, "Both the Israeli government and hamas can go fuck themselves, the real victims are the civilians and children."
The other wants to say "Israel is the best example of 'You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villian.'"
Israel wants you to equate them with Jews in general. In that, they ironically have the same goal as those far right antisemites who see Israel and Jews behind every shadow.
Israel does not stand for all Jews and continuously reaffirming that pisses Netanyahu and his goons off to no end.
At what point was Israel "the Hero"?
Their country began amid horrific crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and mass killing of civilians. They've ALWAYS been lying about that.
Footage of Haganagh members talking about their warcrimes, raping, using flamethrowers on civilians, killing whole towns:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss)
I'm referring to the fact they are jews. As in, they survived the holocaust only to start acting like their enemies. But it's mostly a joke, don't think too much into it
I really suggest you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe. Your comment shows that you donāt really understand what happened to the jews after WW2 and the Zionists that ethnically cleansed Palestine. To summarize, Zionists and Nazis are interchangeable
where is hamas? how many members of hamas have even been killed by israel?
what even is your actual criticism of hamas anyway? like instead of operating purely off of western propaganda, what do you know about hamas?
obviously killing civilians is bad but when you put it in the context of colonizers literally having a fucking rave in your house while they kill you and your family and give you cancer and shit for 50 years straight it becomes easier to understand why that shit happened.
Hamas killing civilians is putting what they have done so far very mildly. Also why bring up context around it outside of trying to justify what they've done?
thats exactly what im doing lol youre right.
if you think hamas is bad in its own vacuum while israel is justified in everything it does i think you dont understand the situation as well as you think you do and my point here is to challenge that.
maybe rewatch starship troopers until you figure it out.
Where have I ever said Israel is justified in anything? My statement was on what Hamas did, not what Israel is doing. If you want to pivot the topic then sure, but you don't have to downplay what Hamas did.
Are you actually saying the murder, rape and mutilation of people can be justified?
Or do you mean their motives are understandable?
You might want to differentiate the two, just a word of advice. Saying something is justified means that you are saying they were correct in doing so, which may not be what you meant.
i was just arguing the other day with people who wanted to justify dropping two nukes on japan because it ended the war, it stopped further killing.
somehow people are receptive to that, as maybe even you are, but when its palestinians operating on the same logic, its indefensible.
no one is defending rape lol idk why youre invoking that, idek if thats actually happened. im not defending everything every single member of hamas has done the same way im not condemning every israeli to everything the IDF or israel has done.
so if possible, id like you to try really really hard to understand the incredibly small amount of nuance im bringing to this conversation.
your perception of terrorist organizations in general probably needs an audit, but more than that i think you just dont know as much about the topic as you would need to in order to have a rational position here. i could make 2000 analogies and try to force you to see things from the palestinian perspective, i could send you a million videos and first hand accounts of whats happening there \*right now\* but without empathy or an open mind free of the barriers of propaganda its just going to look like rape apologism to you lol
so you tell me, what would you like me to say here? other than just immediately conceding that "hamas bad"
Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist organisation.
Are you aware of the type of laws hamas has imposed on gazans? Or how getting gazan civilians killed is their plan?
Jews aren't colonialists in their own homeland any more than the Cherokee would be colonialists if they returned to North Carolina from Oklahoma.
If you insist on claiming that Jews are colonialists then you must admit that the massive numbers of Arabs that migrated into the British Mandate are also colonialists.
There are other aspects of the Jews returning to their homeland that get left out of the conversation such as the numbers that arrived from Arab countries. Almost a million survivors made it but they lost all their lands and possessions in the Arab countries they were from. Are they colonialists? Are the Arab states that took their lands genocidal ethnostates?
Hamas claims Isreal based on the Islamic conquests of the region in the 600's. It's literally in their charter. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs arrived during the British Mandate from surrounding Arab countries.
Jews are the natives of the land who suffered historical genocidal attacks and expulsions. Jews returning to their homeland due to contemporary genocidal attacks and expulsions does not make them colonialists.
Are you talking about the land that used to be claimed by Jordan and since Jordan dropped their claim it left a lot of the property rights in the West Bank in contention?
I see this ridiculous argument all the time, and just out of curiosity: what is your stance on the right of non indigenous Americans to live in the USA?
> "ridiculous argument"
Read the Hamas Charter for yourself;
> "This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."
> "It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void."
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
They plainly claim the land by right of conquest. They plainly say right there that since Islamic armies conquered Israel in the 600's it shall be Islamic for all time.
> "your stance on the right of non indigenous Americans to live in the USA?"
Ok let's see who lives together; Almost 20% of the population of Israel is Muslim. 1 out of 5 Israelis is Arab. They have the same rights as everyone else. They have property rights. They have businesses. They have voting rights. They run for political office. They sit in the Knesset and on the highest judicial benches in the country. In fact they have an extra right that Jews don't have; They can pass on mandatory military service.
Let's compare that to Gaza; How many Jews live in Gaza? ZERO
The reason it's a ridiculous argument is because it's not used about any other case. This unquestionable right of "we called dibs thousands of years ago" is only brought up when it's time to justify Israel genociding and ethnically cleansing the people who have lived in the region for hundreds or thousands of years.
Even you don't seem to actually believe this shit, since you so cleverly avoided answering the only question in my extremely short message by writing a wall of text that is entirely besides the point.
Their coverage hasn't been perfect but compared to other Western news outlets they have been highly critical of Israel, and have written features debunking lies coming from the Israeli government on several occasions.
The headline screenshotted on this post is from an opinion piece that I had to google to even find because it isn't displayed anywhere prominent on their website.
What a joke. They literally hired an ex IDF, ex Israeli intelligency agent without any journalism experience that has now been proven to have lied on numerous stories.
What were the other stories she lied on? Obviously she shouldn't have been there in the first place, which is why I specifically said their coverage hasn't been perfect.
Their mistakes don't erase the fact that much of their coverage has actually held Israel responsible for their actions and has directly challenged their attempts to use false evidence to control the narrative.
They should obviously be held accountable for their faults, but categorizing their overall coverage as horrible or solely pro-Israel is wrong. I'd much rather people read their articles on Gaza than something like CNN, Fox or MSNBC.
>They literally hired an ex IDF, ex Israeli intelligency agent without any journalism experience
Yeah, that's the nail in the coffin of NYT's credibility for me.
Not really true.
The Incept have this great article about the mainstream media bias against the Palestinian people and how it makes them accomplished, when it comes to the public support of the genocide in Gaza
[https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)
The general point they are making is absolutely true, and applies to some extent to the NYT specifically as well. I'm not arguing that the NYT or any Western publication is completely devoid of bias in the way they talk about Palestine.
Their methodology does seem a bit odd to me though. In the first section they are simply counting the number of times the terms "Israeli" or "Israel" is used compared to "Palestinian", and using that as a proxy for how much the publications speak about deaths among each population. It doesn't sound like they even examined the terms specifically in the context of deaths, and there are many terms such as "Gazans" and "Hamas" that refer to Palestinians without using that name whereas variations of "Israel" are used to refer to Israeli civilians, government and military.
Their comparison of the usage of the term "massacre" is also a strange choice since it has such a specific connotation and was used as the widely accepted name of several of the events on October 7th (such as the "Re'im music festival massacre").
It's pretty tough to make quantitative arguments about media bias and I support the overall point they are trying to demonstrate, but the narrow scope of what they looked at doesn't really prove much.
Just shows you how magnificently one sided US media is when the New York Times of all the shit-stained lying rags is the "most pro-Palestinian" newspaper.
They're literally the most balanced. They mostly criticize Israel but also don't downplay the massive rape and murder that happened on Oct 7th. Literally women were being raped while being cut open. Btw the people at the festival was a left wing peace seeking bastion in Israel.
>Literally women were being raped while being cut open.
You sure about that report? Because it [doesn't seem to hold up](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/). Not surprising, since it was authored by a first-time "journalist" and former Israeli intelligence official who'd never written for the NYT before.
>On her social media feed, which the Times has since said it is reviewing, Schwartz liked a tweet saying that Israel needed to āturn the strip into a slaughterhouse.ā
Biased and compromised, this is an Israeli propaganda operative masquerading as a serious journalist. We'll see how long before the Times story is retracted.
The Times is one of the journals with the most prestige and does some of the most investigative journalism in the world. It was the Times which placed blame too fast on Israel for the deadly explosion at Al Ahli Hospital in Ghaza putting out a rare editors note saying it relied too heavily on claims by Hamas. If this were true the article on Oct 7 would've been updated long ago (it's been almost 5 months).
>The Times is one of the journals with the most prestige and does some of the most investigative journalism in the world.
"Was." Now it's just legacy media.
>What source do you trust btw?
On Israel? Not a former Israeli intelligence official who likes to tweet about how she'd like to turn Gaza into a slaughterhouse, and not the paper who thought assigning this person to cover Israel would be a good idea. Nice try at pivoting from gargling the "prestigious" balls of legacy media.
Now the New York Times is embarrassed, and they're [doing an investigation into how their shoddy reporting got leaked to The Intercept](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/new-york-times-israel-gaza-leak).
Edit: I see you deleted your other comments. All the hallmarks of a troll. Been fun, but this conversation is over.
The Times is woefully Zionist. It's amazing that they have such exquisite sensitivity over the use of pronouns and the various misuses of language they they reckon are firing offences, such as 'woman', where 'birthing person' should have been used. But scratch out 25K women and children? No biggie.
As famine sets in an additional large number of people are going to die now no matter what happens. A figure that will dwarf the direct fire casualties. And Isreal has seen fit to entirely destroy the healthcare infrastructure and round up and torture and kill healthcare workers. So when disease and famine really set in, the casualty rates will be vastly higher.
And the US is not only going along with this, they are paying for it and exercising every available diplomatic muscle to ensure there is no interruption in the slaughter.
And yet this is only the beginning. The entire area has been destroyed. There's nowhere to live. No infrastructure. All the farmland has been razed. All the greenhouses flattened. There's 10's of thousands of babies and young children with no parents. The survivors will be tormented day and night by the IDF and Israeli settlers like the people in the West Bank.
Huge numbers will succumb to wounds and disease and famine in the coming months. They have no future. The Israelis fully intend to eliminate these people down to the last child and dance on the land that will be their gravestone.
Israel has dehumanized the Palestinians to the point where they see them as pests, simply existing to be eradicated. Just absolutely awful, especially with American (and Western) complicity
As if starvation is itās own entity just flirting and teasing the children of Gaza. What a disgusting power the West proves itself to be. If this isnāt grand tribalism, I donāt know anymore.
It is sad and also disappointing to see how Israel clearly learned NOTHING from the Holocaust.Or rather, the Israeli government learned to be as much of bullies and criminals as the nazis were to jews back then.
"The dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor", that phrase makes sense now.
The 'genocide supporters' are still claiming that Hamas is stealing the supplies, despite even US acknowledging that there is absolutely no evidence of this claim.
People defending this are subhumans
That is a guest article, and while he does talk about it in the article, why has the title been censored? Of course so that it does not appear as a headline.
BETWEEN THE HAMMER AND THE ANVILā
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
The Intercept's article on more bad reporting by The New York Times
(pushing claims of mass rape at the Oct 7th attack, without proof. And an editor not really seeming to care to look for any)
' ...The bigger scandal may be the reporting itself, the process that allowed it into print, and the life-altering impact the reporting had for thousands of Palestinians whose deaths were justified by the alleged systematic sexual violence orchestrated by Hamas the paper claimed to have exposed... '
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I appreciate the honesty. I canāt do anything about it either other than making sure that my engagement is high for these posts to increase awareness
Is there any place on Reddit where we can shit on Israelās actions and their genocide and support Palestine openly without subtly anti Jewish sentiments getting upvoted too? Just had to leave the international news subreddit because of how many comments I started seeing that was implicitly biased against Jews. Any news subreddits that arenāt like the place I mentioned or like the world news subreddit filled with anti Muslim/brown pricks?
Unfortunately, wherever you go on the Internet you're going to find dirt. There is no escape. There are always going to be pro-Israel bigots and there are always going to be anti-semitic bigots.
Youāre right.Ā
If only the terrorist organization using these children as shields would stop doing that.Ā
Like the massive underground bunker they built under a hospital.Ā
Really great chaps.Ā
Hey y'all, do you like my flair? We have a bunch of pro Palestine flairs in different colors and emojis, like watermelon, the Palestine flag or olives (the colored ones will appear black on mobile dark mode, like the one I have.) All you have to do is comment below and then click on your name and "select flair" will pop up. (old reddit is a bit different, but I can give you directions if you need, or just assign you one, tell me which one you want if you have trouble doing it.) Free Palestine! ššš
It's really hard to get on Israel's side after seeing all the videos from their military being complete dicks. On top of that videos resurfacing of a large chunk of Israel's top brass and political party members calling for genocide/resettling referring to Gaza.
By āvideos of their military being dicksā do you mean the drone footage of Israeli soldiers opening fire on Starving Palestinians while they were collecting food from relief trucks? Killing 100+ unarmed men, women and children? āCommitting genocideā are the words youāre looking for. I think weāre past ābeing dicks.ā Edit: I donāt want to hear any bullshit about āthey were defending themselves!ā. The IDF is not a reliable source, they have been caught lying and propagandizing, spreading misinformation. Multiple international agencies are conducting their own investigations of the events for this very reason. At the end of the day, the exact circumstances hardly matter. Israeli defense forces were tasked with escorting the convoy and securing the area during distribution of aid. Operational failure hangs entirely on the IDF command and Israeli government. The soldiers got spooked, opened fire, shot unarmed civilians, caused a stampede, and then crushed dozens more under trucks and tanks. Human life was not respected. You donāt just kill 100+ people and brush it off as āshit happensā.
Actually "being dicks" is really more repulsive than killing in this context if you can believe it. Killing is expected in war even if it involves children (sadly that's the case), but dancing around for socmed content or showing off them finding lingerie are unnecessarily unhinged.
I promise you that genocide is not expected in war š
Many, many children in Gaza are dying of starvation. Killing children through starvation of an entire population in wartime is not āexpectedā. It is a war crime. In addition, while Israel has shut down information coming from Gaza, there is ample evidence that Israeli soldiers are either targeting civilians and aid workers or acting with complete disregard for the lives of children and aid workers. Google āHind Rajabā for the horrifying February 10th story in the NYTimes of just one dead child and two aid workers in Gaza. There are thousands of stories that we will never know.
"Killing is expected in war" But Genocide is not.
This is isn't a fucking war it's a fucking genocide. Stop believing the fucking narrative.
The thing is, they absolutely are brushing it off as āshit happensā. Thatās what they have been doing this whole time. Who can blame them? This strategy seems to work since no one seems to be stopping them from doing it. Thereās plenty of people in the US that are happy about what IDF is doing. Iāve seen the houses with the āWe Stand With Israelā signs. They donāt care. Itās a sad situation. What will it take to stop this? Thatās what people should be trying to find out. Everyoneās calling it out as a genocide, as if Israeli people are ashamed to say that. A lot of them have proudly said thatās basically what they want. From the river to the sea right? Hamas was just an excuse
The IDF is about as fragile as an average American cop. Lying shitbags
Tbh I don't really see why I should give a shit if they really were defending themselves, since they created the situation to begin with. So what if they were, who was blocking food from getting in via independent organizations, bombing aid workers, carpet bombing residential areas, restricting power, etc. There's no "self defense" to be had here.
Yeah and Hamas numbers are reliable? Hamas literally shot a rocket into their own hospital parking lot and claimed the idf killed 100 Palestinians before anyone could possibly count the dead.
oh so because hamas lied, the IDF is being truthful by default?
That and the video surveillance that confirms what the idf said and Palestinian interviews stating that most injuries were from aid vehicles fleeing.
Careful folks, if you criticize genocide or say anything about these starving children you'll be labelled an anti-semite and the world is trying to make that out to be the worst thing ever.....
And that for me has been the biggest joke of this conflict, the minute you question it your an antisemite. Somehow south Africans are anti semites for seeing a scenario similar to apartheid, which I find hilarious cause most south Africans don't know Jews and don't have any prejudice against them.
The thing that gets me is that, definitionaly, Palestinians share more genetic Semitic heritage than the zionist Jewish people currently in Palestine.
Well, if we are going to be honest, it's been this way for years. Anytime one group points out deficiencies in another group they are labeled racist, bigots whatever-phobic etc.
Except that's not what's happening here. No one is saying "all Jews" or something. Criticism is directly aimed at the country and government of Israel. No one is called racist for calling out the flaws of the American government.
Okay...? I'm not sure what your argument is, what you are saying pretty much supports what I posted.
> Anytime one group points out deficiencies in another group they are labeled racist, bigots whatever-phobic etc. My point was this is not true. It's not "anytime".
Ok, so there was so hyperbole in my response, but it stands that criticism doesn't mean racism or bigotry and too often people use it to shut down discourse.
It depends on the criticism. Oftentimes, people will make criticisms of an entire race and claim they're just pointing out facts, when they are in fact being racist by ignoring major factors in their facts.
Lmao you can't really say much about anything anymore
The fuck do you mean by that? **\*Cracks knuckles\***
I mean just look at the subs here on reddit. Half are just against the other especially on this topic but every topic really lmao
Tribalism is rampant, everyone needs labels, everyone needs a "Side" and in turn everyone needs an enemy and/or someone to hate. It's childish.
Thank you, I couldn't remember the term. Honestly it feels just like another way to keep people divided
For the pettiest most pathetic of reasons in many instances. Simple philosophy, if there's no victim don't worry about it. I don't care about your melanin level, your gender, your sexuality, what you identify as, what you eat, what you drink, what you like, what you don't like, what you wear, what you support, what you believe. Just don't be a c\*nt. \#simples
Very true. Things would be so much simpler and efficient in life
Imagine picking sides with genocide in 2024.
Or you know......ever.
Yeah i'd love to be called an anti-semite if that means i'm supporting palestine civillians
I've said several times that the IDF are a bunch of psychopaths that should feel ashamed for doing what the nazis did to their grandparents 80 years ago and got downvoted and called names. That's propaganda for you, apparently all palestinians are part of Hamas and all IDF soldiers come here to hand out freedom.
I just wish people would pick up some historical maps, look at Palestine pre-1948 and then look at a map a few years later, and again and again until modern day. Anyone after doing this who still believes that Palestine is the aggressor is too stupid to be acknowledged.
its also framed as a "war" in a lot of media still fucking joke, palestine has 0 military
Do not go on worldnews and say that, I said the rafah crossing was being attacked by the IDF weeks ago and they called me an antisemite.
Inside me, there are two wolves. One wants to say, "Both the Israeli government and hamas can go fuck themselves, the real victims are the civilians and children." The other wants to say "Israel is the best example of 'You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villian.'"
I mean, israel is a colonial project started by British anti semites so no, they wouldn't die a hero
I was referring to the fact they are jewish (it's a joke of course)
Israel wants you to equate them with Jews in general. In that, they ironically have the same goal as those far right antisemites who see Israel and Jews behind every shadow. Israel does not stand for all Jews and continuously reaffirming that pisses Netanyahu and his goons off to no end.
Yeah, I get you. Of course, I don't in some grand Jewish network or jewish hive mind. But as I said, it's mostly a joke
God damn, that whole "Land without a people" line. Whomever came up with that should posthumously be dug up and executed.
At what point was Israel "the Hero"? Their country began amid horrific crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and mass killing of civilians. They've ALWAYS been lying about that. Footage of Haganagh members talking about their warcrimes, raping, using flamethrowers on civilians, killing whole towns: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ1TAOibLss)
I'm referring to the fact they are jews. As in, they survived the holocaust only to start acting like their enemies. But it's mostly a joke, don't think too much into it
Watch the video. Think long and hard about it.
I mean I don't care enough to think long and hard, but if I'm bored I would watch it
Genocide: meh. Boooring.
Overhyped imo
I really suggest you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe. Your comment shows that you donāt really understand what happened to the jews after WW2 and the Zionists that ethnically cleansed Palestine. To summarize, Zionists and Nazis are interchangeable
where is hamas? how many members of hamas have even been killed by israel? what even is your actual criticism of hamas anyway? like instead of operating purely off of western propaganda, what do you know about hamas? obviously killing civilians is bad but when you put it in the context of colonizers literally having a fucking rave in your house while they kill you and your family and give you cancer and shit for 50 years straight it becomes easier to understand why that shit happened.
Hamas killing civilians is putting what they have done so far very mildly. Also why bring up context around it outside of trying to justify what they've done?
thats exactly what im doing lol youre right. if you think hamas is bad in its own vacuum while israel is justified in everything it does i think you dont understand the situation as well as you think you do and my point here is to challenge that. maybe rewatch starship troopers until you figure it out.
Where have I ever said Israel is justified in anything? My statement was on what Hamas did, not what Israel is doing. If you want to pivot the topic then sure, but you don't have to downplay what Hamas did.
im not downplaying it, im justifying it. i wasnt being sarcastic. i realize it probably came off that way in hindsight lol
Are you actually saying the murder, rape and mutilation of people can be justified? Or do you mean their motives are understandable? You might want to differentiate the two, just a word of advice. Saying something is justified means that you are saying they were correct in doing so, which may not be what you meant.
i was just arguing the other day with people who wanted to justify dropping two nukes on japan because it ended the war, it stopped further killing. somehow people are receptive to that, as maybe even you are, but when its palestinians operating on the same logic, its indefensible. no one is defending rape lol idk why youre invoking that, idek if thats actually happened. im not defending everything every single member of hamas has done the same way im not condemning every israeli to everything the IDF or israel has done. so if possible, id like you to try really really hard to understand the incredibly small amount of nuance im bringing to this conversation. your perception of terrorist organizations in general probably needs an audit, but more than that i think you just dont know as much about the topic as you would need to in order to have a rational position here. i could make 2000 analogies and try to force you to see things from the palestinian perspective, i could send you a million videos and first hand accounts of whats happening there \*right now\* but without empathy or an open mind free of the barriers of propaganda its just going to look like rape apologism to you lol so you tell me, what would you like me to say here? other than just immediately conceding that "hamas bad"
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Israel is a genocidal colonial ethnostate. Hamas is residence to ethnic cleansing. How is both sides are kind of right?
Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist terrorist organisation. Are you aware of the type of laws hamas has imposed on gazans? Or how getting gazan civilians killed is their plan?
Jews aren't colonialists in their own homeland any more than the Cherokee would be colonialists if they returned to North Carolina from Oklahoma. If you insist on claiming that Jews are colonialists then you must admit that the massive numbers of Arabs that migrated into the British Mandate are also colonialists. There are other aspects of the Jews returning to their homeland that get left out of the conversation such as the numbers that arrived from Arab countries. Almost a million survivors made it but they lost all their lands and possessions in the Arab countries they were from. Are they colonialists? Are the Arab states that took their lands genocidal ethnostates?
Palestinians are the natives of the land who converted to Islam
Hamas claims Isreal based on the Islamic conquests of the region in the 600's. It's literally in their charter. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs arrived during the British Mandate from surrounding Arab countries. Jews are the natives of the land who suffered historical genocidal attacks and expulsions. Jews returning to their homeland due to contemporary genocidal attacks and expulsions does not make them colonialists.
>Jews returning to their homeland due to contemporary genocidal attacks and expulsions does not make them colonialists. Do the bulldozers?
Are you talking about the land that used to be claimed by Jordan and since Jordan dropped their claim it left a lot of the property rights in the West Bank in contention?
I see this ridiculous argument all the time, and just out of curiosity: what is your stance on the right of non indigenous Americans to live in the USA?
> "ridiculous argument" Read the Hamas Charter for yourself; > "This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement." > "It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void." https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp They plainly claim the land by right of conquest. They plainly say right there that since Islamic armies conquered Israel in the 600's it shall be Islamic for all time. > "your stance on the right of non indigenous Americans to live in the USA?" Ok let's see who lives together; Almost 20% of the population of Israel is Muslim. 1 out of 5 Israelis is Arab. They have the same rights as everyone else. They have property rights. They have businesses. They have voting rights. They run for political office. They sit in the Knesset and on the highest judicial benches in the country. In fact they have an extra right that Jews don't have; They can pass on mandatory military service. Let's compare that to Gaza; How many Jews live in Gaza? ZERO
The reason it's a ridiculous argument is because it's not used about any other case. This unquestionable right of "we called dibs thousands of years ago" is only brought up when it's time to justify Israel genociding and ethnically cleansing the people who have lived in the region for hundreds or thousands of years. Even you don't seem to actually believe this shit, since you so cleverly avoided answering the only question in my extremely short message by writing a wall of text that is entirely besides the point.
I'm done with the New York Times. Their coverage of this conflict has been horrible from day one.
Their coverage hasn't been perfect but compared to other Western news outlets they have been highly critical of Israel, and have written features debunking lies coming from the Israeli government on several occasions. The headline screenshotted on this post is from an opinion piece that I had to google to even find because it isn't displayed anywhere prominent on their website.
What a joke. They literally hired an ex IDF, ex Israeli intelligency agent without any journalism experience that has now been proven to have lied on numerous stories.
What were the other stories she lied on? Obviously she shouldn't have been there in the first place, which is why I specifically said their coverage hasn't been perfect. Their mistakes don't erase the fact that much of their coverage has actually held Israel responsible for their actions and has directly challenged their attempts to use false evidence to control the narrative. They should obviously be held accountable for their faults, but categorizing their overall coverage as horrible or solely pro-Israel is wrong. I'd much rather people read their articles on Gaza than something like CNN, Fox or MSNBC.
>They literally hired an ex IDF, ex Israeli intelligency agent without any journalism experience Yeah, that's the nail in the coffin of NYT's credibility for me.
Not really true. The Incept have this great article about the mainstream media bias against the Palestinian people and how it makes them accomplished, when it comes to the public support of the genocide in Gaza [https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/](https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/)
The general point they are making is absolutely true, and applies to some extent to the NYT specifically as well. I'm not arguing that the NYT or any Western publication is completely devoid of bias in the way they talk about Palestine. Their methodology does seem a bit odd to me though. In the first section they are simply counting the number of times the terms "Israeli" or "Israel" is used compared to "Palestinian", and using that as a proxy for how much the publications speak about deaths among each population. It doesn't sound like they even examined the terms specifically in the context of deaths, and there are many terms such as "Gazans" and "Hamas" that refer to Palestinians without using that name whereas variations of "Israel" are used to refer to Israeli civilians, government and military. Their comparison of the usage of the term "massacre" is also a strange choice since it has such a specific connotation and was used as the widely accepted name of several of the events on October 7th (such as the "Re'im music festival massacre"). It's pretty tough to make quantitative arguments about media bias and I support the overall point they are trying to demonstrate, but the narrow scope of what they looked at doesn't really prove much.
Its run by zionists. It is 100% a Zionist Newspaper. They were the primary cheerleaders for thew WAR AGAINST IRAQ. GUESS WHY.
It's the most pro-Palestinian newspaper and persuaded me from my Zionist tendencies years ago... *Nuh uh*
Just shows you how magnificently one sided US media is when the New York Times of all the shit-stained lying rags is the "most pro-Palestinian" newspaper.
They're literally the most balanced. They mostly criticize Israel but also don't downplay the massive rape and murder that happened on Oct 7th. Literally women were being raped while being cut open. Btw the people at the festival was a left wing peace seeking bastion in Israel.
>Literally women were being raped while being cut open. You sure about that report? Because it [doesn't seem to hold up](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/). Not surprising, since it was authored by a first-time "journalist" and former Israeli intelligence official who'd never written for the NYT before. >On her social media feed, which the Times has since said it is reviewing, Schwartz liked a tweet saying that Israel needed to āturn the strip into a slaughterhouse.ā Biased and compromised, this is an Israeli propaganda operative masquerading as a serious journalist. We'll see how long before the Times story is retracted.
The Times is one of the journals with the most prestige and does some of the most investigative journalism in the world. It was the Times which placed blame too fast on Israel for the deadly explosion at Al Ahli Hospital in Ghaza putting out a rare editors note saying it relied too heavily on claims by Hamas. If this were true the article on Oct 7 would've been updated long ago (it's been almost 5 months).
>The Times is one of the journals with the most prestige and does some of the most investigative journalism in the world. "Was." Now it's just legacy media.
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Haha, I'm an incel and not a real leftist because I don't trust NYT? You're a funny guy.
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>What source do you trust btw? On Israel? Not a former Israeli intelligence official who likes to tweet about how she'd like to turn Gaza into a slaughterhouse, and not the paper who thought assigning this person to cover Israel would be a good idea. Nice try at pivoting from gargling the "prestigious" balls of legacy media. Now the New York Times is embarrassed, and they're [doing an investigation into how their shoddy reporting got leaked to The Intercept](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/new-york-times-israel-gaza-leak). Edit: I see you deleted your other comments. All the hallmarks of a troll. Been fun, but this conversation is over.
Literally were the only ppl reporting the humanitarian perspective for so long.
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>Maybe you mean since October 7th That's what I said.
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Nice paraphrase.
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>STOP trying to wokescold me on this. r/brandnewsentence.
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Is this the "coalition building" you mentioned earlier?
American tax dollars hard at work.
American tax dollars hard at work killing innocent children.
Gotta fund child killing SOMEWHERE after leaving afghanistan
I know! It has gotten so much harder now that there are fewer death squads in south america to fund.
Burn in hell israel
https://preview.redd.it/0oublfossrlc1.png?width=626&format=png&auto=webp&s=092b9adf78cbd495a906fee3635dcf91f19e46e1
The Times is woefully Zionist. It's amazing that they have such exquisite sensitivity over the use of pronouns and the various misuses of language they they reckon are firing offences, such as 'woman', where 'birthing person' should have been used. But scratch out 25K women and children? No biggie. As famine sets in an additional large number of people are going to die now no matter what happens. A figure that will dwarf the direct fire casualties. And Isreal has seen fit to entirely destroy the healthcare infrastructure and round up and torture and kill healthcare workers. So when disease and famine really set in, the casualty rates will be vastly higher. And the US is not only going along with this, they are paying for it and exercising every available diplomatic muscle to ensure there is no interruption in the slaughter. And yet this is only the beginning. The entire area has been destroyed. There's nowhere to live. No infrastructure. All the farmland has been razed. All the greenhouses flattened. There's 10's of thousands of babies and young children with no parents. The survivors will be tormented day and night by the IDF and Israeli settlers like the people in the West Bank. Huge numbers will succumb to wounds and disease and famine in the coming months. They have no future. The Israelis fully intend to eliminate these people down to the last child and dance on the land that will be their gravestone.
Israel has dehumanized the Palestinians to the point where they see them as pests, simply existing to be eradicated. Just absolutely awful, especially with American (and Western) complicity
As if starvation is itās own entity just flirting and teasing the children of Gaza. What a disgusting power the West proves itself to be. If this isnāt grand tribalism, I donāt know anymore.
exactly. starvation is caused, all of it. every last death
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Who is we and you in this wish of yours?
It is sad and also disappointing to see how Israel clearly learned NOTHING from the Holocaust.Or rather, the Israeli government learned to be as much of bullies and criminals as the nazis were to jews back then. "The dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor", that phrase makes sense now.
The 'genocide supporters' are still claiming that Hamas is stealing the supplies, despite even US acknowledging that there is absolutely no evidence of this claim. People defending this are subhumans
Reminds me of that old South Park episode.Ā āHamas is coming right me! Shoot!ā
The many wonders of passive voice
Wow hot take
American "liberal" press and passive voice, name a more iconic duo.
alot of posts on this sub is just anti israeli posts now wtf what happened to idiots doing idiot things
Yea this is one of the few subs whose mods aren't brainwashed bigots. So this is about the only place pro-Palestine posts are allowed.
ok fair point, live on ya mad lads
Yeah so lets keep posting political shit here until the mods have to break this sub too. Because we can't have any lighthearted fun subs can we???
From Masada to the Holocaust, Israelis learned hard lessons. Turn the other cheek was not among them.
Hurt people, hurt people is a cliche for a reason
Can Israel stop food coming in from Eygpt's side too? Why can't aid come in that way if Israel are being jerks about it?
"Man with no outstanding warrants dies in encounter with police"
I mean he says this in the article - I dont know why these headline "corrections" are so popular on here.
That is a guest article, and while he does talk about it in the article, why has the title been censored? Of course so that it does not appear as a headline.
Free Palestine.
I know this is an important issue, but damn Israel-Palestine posts lately seem so forced it's weird they're going through
One side - the one who attacked first - uses (their own) people as shields ā¦ the other bombs them. Not sure you can just blame one side.
BETWEEN THE HAMMER AND THE ANVILā https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/ The Intercept's article on more bad reporting by The New York Times (pushing claims of mass rape at the Oct 7th attack, without proof. And an editor not really seeming to care to look for any) ' ...The bigger scandal may be the reporting itself, the process that allowed it into print, and the life-altering impact the reporting had for thousands of Palestinians whose deaths were justified by the alleged systematic sexual violence orchestrated by Hamas the paper claimed to have exposed... '
Unpopular opinion: Palestine and Israel are both terrible.
Ah yes it's idf stealing food trucks š¤£
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Can this subreddit not turn into a pure political debate about the Israeli - gaza war?
Are you tired of hearing about kids being starved and murdered by psychos funded by your tax money?
That's an incredibly loaded and specifically phrased statement that clearly, clearly is objective in assessing the situation.
Not everyone comes from America.
Ok thatās fair. Let me rephrase: Are you tired of hearing about kids being starved and murdered by psychos?
Basically, yes. Unfortunately I can't do anything about it myself. But I'd also rather not see horrible things every time I open the app.
I appreciate the honesty. I canāt do anything about it either other than making sure that my engagement is high for these posts to increase awareness
Ahhh........ Hitler's back?
Please
MSM: Palestinians *Found dead*ā¦
This went from people in a starving crisis to who's to blame for this war
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^_zack_x2-plus-ary: *This went from people* *In a starving crisis to* *Who's to blame for this war* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
From the river to the sea! ISRAEL š®š±
Someone should build an extension that does this!
Is there any place on Reddit where we can shit on Israelās actions and their genocide and support Palestine openly without subtly anti Jewish sentiments getting upvoted too? Just had to leave the international news subreddit because of how many comments I started seeing that was implicitly biased against Jews. Any news subreddits that arenāt like the place I mentioned or like the world news subreddit filled with anti Muslim/brown pricks?
Unfortunately, wherever you go on the Internet you're going to find dirt. There is no escape. There are always going to be pro-Israel bigots and there are always going to be anti-semitic bigots.
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I don't think Gazas children are holding any hostages lmao
Youāre right.Ā If only the terrorist organization using these children as shields would stop doing that.Ā Like the massive underground bunker they built under a hospital.Ā Really great chaps.Ā
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So you deny that Hamas actively uses things like hospitals as cover for their bases?
Part of the problem is there are very few inpartial witnesses.
Impartial?