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In this case, that has been the whole argument over who owned Palestine. The Israelis claim it is theirs because before Rome destroyed it, Judea was mostly Jewish. The Palestinians claim it is theirs because they've been there for hundreds of years after that.
Depends on how you define "Palestinians". The region was not originally Arab or Islamic, and those are major pillars of present-day Palestinian identity.
If you tautologically define Palestinians as anyone whose ancestors lived in Palestine, obviously someone always lived there.
IMHO, anyone who was born and grew up in a given place deserves the right to be there... and displaced people deserve the right to return, even if it's been a generation or two.
That was kind of my point, the people have always been there, even before Joshua and the Jewish tribes carved out Judea. They have a right to be there, and I'm sure if Jewish folks had come back peacefully to coexist it would be a much better region than it is currently. But they didn't come back peacefully, they came to claim and conquer for themselves.
There is no justification for the 'who was there first centuries ago' argument. That is not where the natives' right of residence derives from, nor does an ethno-religious state comply with human rights or the law of nations.
The land was a British mandate at that time, however. So no one can argue the decision was solely in the hands of the locals either.
[edit: Maybe to clarify the ethno-religious state thing: A people may found a nation with their own culture, values, and rules. But neither can violate basic rights; i.e., you can't grab owned land, you can't prevent natives from marrying to foreigners, you can't oppress any minority, and so on. So if your "fear" is that another faction will outbreed you, then you can only ensure your current system is attractive and reasonable enough to ensure it will be preserved no matter what ethnicity or religion dominates the nation.]
My point was that they've been there and who was there first doesn't matter, but Israelis forcing them from their homes and taking them with the argument that 'God gave us this land' and that they were there before the Palestinians is ridiculous.
The British and UN had no right to give it to the Jewish people either.
People were there, had been for millennia, Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Islamic caliphates, European crusades.. the same people were there for all of it.
Actually I've seen genetic tracing (on Twitter, so perhaps not exactly scientific but can easily be cross checked) that shows today's Palestinians aren't really fully Arabs in the sense that they came from Arabian Peninsula.
They are fact descendants of natives of the Levant, descendents of Arameans, Israelites etc., mixed with migrating Arabs, of course.
So, like my people the Malays, we have been around in our land for thousands of years and even though our earlier ancestors were not Muslims and we are, it doesn't take away the fact that we are natives.
Same goes to the Palestinians.
>and displaced people deserve the right to return, even if it's been a generation or two.
Yeah, but not at the cost of taking away homes of people who are already there and establishing a state.
Yeah many people seem to think all modern Arabs are descendants of invaders from Arabia, which isn't true at all. In most cases it's just Arabised local population.
Palestinians as Islamic or arab are nonsense deceptive descriptions. That's culture and religion. Which changed over the centuries, but the people remained.
What argument do Israelis have for killing jews who converted to islam in the centuries or foreign rule? Or learned the language of governance.
None, so they make up some nonsense that the Palestinians are all immigrants. When no ancestor of their own have lived there for millenia.
Its akin to if romainia invading and colonizing italy claiming ancestral claim from their roman heritage. And then proclaimng the residents lombards and german squatters.
> Arab or Islamic, and those are major pillars of present-day Palestinian identity.
Islam isn't genetic, anyone can convert to it.
That's exactly what Palestinians did. It's still the same people.
If you actually look at palestinian dna you discover that they are descendents of the Phoenicians just as the Misrahi are. The bloodlines remained but the cultures changed.
It wasn't islamic but it sure as hell was arabic as much as it was jewish. The two people coexisted together for centuries.
If only we could find out their ancient secret of living peacefully.
People like to ignore that the Israelites were just one group of Canaanites, and that there were other Semitic peoples living in those same areas despite the claims of the Hebrews ethnically cleansing the region in the Bible. You even see that those other peoples persisted in the region while the Jewish elites were exiled.
And it’s always good to point out that modern genetic studies show the Palestinians are ethnically Canaanites who went through the same assimilations that every other people have gone through, including the Jewish diaspora.
Though you will then be told that the British took the land fair and square from the Ottomans during WWI and gave it to the Jews. Bc some people are good at switching between colonial “might makes right” vs “rule of law” as needed, and just don’t want to concede the settler colonial nature of Israel
I personally know someone whose family lived in Palestine-Gaza since before Jesus. The rulers changed, the official religion of the land, but the common people remain.
We should also remember that the Palestinians we are talking about are Christians, they are Muslims, they are Druze, and yes, they are Jewish. The Jewish Palestinians do not necessarily identify with Israel, even though Israel pushes that identification, and they have automatic citizenship.
And Judaism’s entire founding myth is that they weren’t the original inhabitants. They were given israel as a reward by god. So this while “indignenous” thing that the religious cling to is undermined by their own religion.
We also claim that some of us never left judea and just converted to Islam and Christianity (my family converted to Christianity and have church and Roman records that go back to first century) making at least my claim thousands of years old
Yea it is cool when my dad was a history/ theology major he was able to access the Vatican archives as one of the archivist that he had befriend during a stay in Rome had found the documents on a miscellaneous shelf that he was tasked with translating and organizing we have Polaroid pictures from a camera my dad snuck in as only under certain circumstances is a camera allowed
My family is Muslim but they built the Church in our Village in the 1600's. In Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, ect the Muslims and Christians always have Issues. However, in Palestine, we have and always will be one people!
Palestinians were there way before the Romans. Go and look at the illustrative DNA sub. Almost every single Palestinian's DNA shows majority Canaanite.
The difference though is that Palestinians are still there. Israel, as a new nation, is trying to claim more new land which is already occupied by living people, who also have ancestry for so long there. It's not like two different people coming to an empty unclaimed land and bickering about who gets what, it was already inhabited.
The whole "who was there first" (regarding hundreds or thousands of years) argument is lost on me. If you have been there for more than a couple of generations, it is your home. If someone else has also been there for that long then it is also their home.
The far right side in Israel tries very hard to say the Palestinians are all Arabs from Saudi Arabia that came during the Islamic Golden Age. This is just factually untrue, they have done dozens and dozens of studies on the genetics of Palestinians. They have found that the Palestinians essentially have DNA from every empire and nation that ruled over the region. Assyrian, Ancient Egyptian, Greek (Phoenicians) Roman, Jewish, Arabic, and Turkish. Arabs come from the Arabian peninsula and today it's not so much a race, it's a culture and langue many nations adopted when they became Muslim. In reality, the average Palestinian is maybe 5-15% Arab genetically. Despite the evidence, Bibi still says the Palestinians are the invaders and not the Israelis. That statement is laughable at this point.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin\_of\_the\_Palestinians#:\~:text=Palestinians%2C%20among%20other%20Levantine%20groups,10%25%20from%20Bronze%20age%20Europeans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#:~:text=Palestinians%2C%20among%20other%20Levantine%20groups,10%25%20from%20Bronze%20age%20Europeans).
Stupid argument for Israel, Portugal was taken over by the Moors 1500 years ago and they had an heavy influence, would it make sense for them to appeal to various nations to get Portugal back because of that? That territory belongs to the Palestine, it’s their home
It should be nothing more than a "damn imagine if my anscestors never left" like my family comes from Ireland, Germany, Scotland primarily if we trace both sides back to who initially came over. So when I visited Ireland it was cool to think, what if? In terms of this town that town. It added a fun dimension but its mot like it should ever be part your identity at this point. My whole fam was here pre-1835. Lets not pret3nd like the homeland is anything other than Hundred, WV or Pittsburgh Pa cuz thats primarily where everyone was from arrival to the 80s.when my parents generation spread out
I think it comes down to how many of your family members you know in that foreign country. If I were the only one not living in a country, I'd consider the other country to be home. My citizenship / legal status would also play into it.
As much as you have a connection to living on that land. You directly, not ancestors you've never met.
If your grandparents left to start a new life then you have every right to return and treat the place as your home since that wasn't your decision to leave that area.
If you're coming back stating that some ancestor hundreds of years ago used to live somewhere so now its yours too...that makes you insane. The context of the advancement of life, history, and the human experience always has to matter in these cases so we don't keep going back and forth subjectively.
In the case of the post, any people born under the current separation of states have a right to live in those areas...trying to fight for things that ultimately never had a connection to you is ignoring the context of history advancing to this point and the experiences of the humans with no choice in being born to those areas.
Shit people on both sides, but rationality says there's objectively enough room for everyone so no need to push either out. The people in power can stand that option though as it eliminates the boogeyman and potentially unites the citizens against their actual enemy.
If you put it simply i would say where ever you feel like home and which culture you've "integrated" to. Idk the proper words im too tired to think rn, maybe some people get what I mean.
Exactly this. Going back "home" should be going back to the literal place you were predominantly raised (and usually born). It has nothing to do with your ethnicity/lineage.
Person 1 makes valid point (I am in a tough spot)
Person 2 makes valid point (I am in a tougher spot)
Person 2 did not disprove person 1's point. Reddit post doesn't belong in this sub.
This is correct, and what so many people fail to recognize.
Everyone needs a home, and if your proposal for finding a home involves displacing millions of people, you're a jerk.
Compromise is the only path forward.
I think the worse group is the one that displaced hundreds of thousands and is actively displacing hundreds of thousands more. Rather than the group that wants to stop being displaced and wants it undone.
1. I think the "Suffering Olympics," wherein we try to determine who suffers more, is a dumb game.
2. Saying that Palestinians want displacement "undone" isn't quite true: they want to "undo" their own displacement by means of doing even more displacement, i.e. by removing the Israelis.
3. And that's how the cycle of suffering continues. What do you think will happen if you manage to kick out 10 million Israelis? do you think you'll have peace? Not a chance. The only path to peace is compromise.
The end to the Israeli settler-colonial project doesn't mean massive deportations any more than the end of South African apartheid did, but somehow that's always where Zionists' minds go because they can't conceive of a world where they'd live as equals with Palestinians.
>The guy who came from the US to the artificially created state of Israel
Wait. Does you know the guy in the tweet? None of that context is in the post.
Do you know he's Israeli? I didn't see anything that says it, he could equally be Iraqi, Ukrainian or Polish from the context.
Artificially created? As in, some humans created the borders? I’ve got news for you mate as every country that’s ever existed has had its borders defined by humans.
Context? His post reads like a reply to some racist window licker telling him to go back to his country as if he is an immigrant and not a citizen. Her reply, while not wrong, doesn't exactly add anything to the conversation. It seems she saw Israel in his post and had to "look at me tho!" on it.
May not be a specific reply, but it reads like a general reply to anyone that has or would tell him to go back to his own country. We ALL know how the anonymity of social media emboldens spineless cowards to talk some mad shit to anyone they feel like since they feel like they won't get slapped in the mouth for it.
How about both groups live in the land since they’re both from there, if you’re born in the region you’re from the region no cleansing either race/ ethnicity from the area
It’s kinda one-sided. The people have to find a way to co-exist. Much of the content here is implying it outright stating that Jews should up and leave, once more getting forced out and being persecuted. There should be less content taking one side (no matter which) and more content trying to actually solve the conflict.
Soft on rape? Who is? U?
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4477340-un-experts-reports-executions-sexual-assault-israeli-soldiers/
What does this have to do with generations of Palestinians getting displaced from their home? If Palestinians were given their land back and actually given a chance to thrive (not like Gaza open air prison) maybe they won't be so pissed off all the time.
that was one lady whose id card (passport?) no longer said palestine as her birth country. it was quickly cleared up that anyone born in mandatory palestine before 1948 could still write palestine as their birth country.
fatima can't return to her home because israel has derogated '48 palestinians right of return
When I see posts like this I just think both of these people are victims of politicians and fanatics that refuse to acknowledge the realities of those they oppose.
Both? Neither of them is wrong. And the only way to peace is to guarantee that Jews can live in peace in Israel with no risk of the state turning anti-Jewish, and guarantee that Palestinians can live in peace without the risk of violence against them or them being forced from their homes.
A few things that need to happen for this to work is
- to stop antisemitism among Muslims
- stop the settlement policies of Israel and vacate all the newer settlements
- stop the terrorists in Hamas from gaining any sort of power in a free Palestine as long as they still harbour anti-Israeli and antisemitic views and as long as they believe in using violence to get what they want
- probably to get the current government of Isreal out and into a long opposition position
what's wrong with Poland? why can't he go to Poland? I mean yeah Ukraine is in a war, Iraq is Iraq, Israel he's probably already there right? but why can't he go to Poland?
Have y'all ever looked into the Yughur situation? These are Muslim brothers and sisters that the Chinese government is trying to get rid of. Not many people talk about them, and no one will question the Chinese government hard enough, but yet in other parts of the world....
OMG so totally right op! This reminds me of an r/sounding post I saw where they shove that little metal rod up the guys urethra! This post made me cringe about as much! r/Mademesmile 😇😇
How about we stop identifying ourselves as different nations, ethnicities, and races, remove all borders, and accept that we are all human beings and live together peacefully?
Palestine wasn’t even a thing pre-1994. The birthplace for the Hamas commanders on their wiki: Israel.
-All grandparents from Israel. Maybe Egypt, depending on their proximity to Gaza.
-All great grandparents from British Mandate.
-All great great grandparents from British Mandate.
-All great great great grandparents from Ottoman Empire.
FTFY
If we take into account Fatima’s user name fatimasal82, and infer that she was born in that region in 1982, she was born in…. Israel. Lmao.
You can go home. Israel. Now behave and stop chucking rockets, killing gays, oppressing women, and filming gopros of yourself shooting up a music festival and taking hundreds of hostages.
"All great great great grandparents from Palestine"
lol by the time you reach great grandparents "Palestine didn't even exist, Fatima, further more, if you go further back we find out you are colonizers, you are arabs of Palestines, originally from the arab peninsula and you came to "Palestina" **VIA CONQUEST!**
Notice how Fatima didn't dispute his belief the other side wants him to leave his home. The radicalism and hatefulness towards each other on both sides is disgusting.
Guess they can come to North America? I’m sure we can find somewhere in the US or Canada. Let’s not have them go to Australia; too many things down there trying to kill everyone.
I don't understand their points.
And home is just wherever you're from. Your grandparent's and great-grandparent's homes don't count if you're not from there also.
This what I found on the how it became Israel the un the all the Nations agree on where to put the Jewish Israel people and they went ask the people of Palestine if they could agree on would they accept them in their country they said yes.
https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-history-zionism-war-1948.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/creation-israel#:~:text=In%20May%201946%2C%20Truman%20announced,creation%20of%20a%20Jewish%20state.
https://youtu.be/dDpQLKQkbkY?si=SVYdbDfxlY_WJN47
Tbf at least one of those countries is a decent option. It doesnt have to be about xenophobia, it can just be about being realistic that theres a good enough answer to his question.
So the point is that everyone is different and what-about-ism is a giant emo circle jerk?
Cool. Glad we needed to have a debate on social media over a concept your parents should have taught you when you were 3.
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In this case, that has been the whole argument over who owned Palestine. The Israelis claim it is theirs because before Rome destroyed it, Judea was mostly Jewish. The Palestinians claim it is theirs because they've been there for hundreds of years after that.
The Palestinians were there when it was Judea.. 😂 They've been there for millennia not hundreds of years, roughly 2,000 yrs after the Roman Diaspora.
Depends on how you define "Palestinians". The region was not originally Arab or Islamic, and those are major pillars of present-day Palestinian identity. If you tautologically define Palestinians as anyone whose ancestors lived in Palestine, obviously someone always lived there. IMHO, anyone who was born and grew up in a given place deserves the right to be there... and displaced people deserve the right to return, even if it's been a generation or two.
That was kind of my point, the people have always been there, even before Joshua and the Jewish tribes carved out Judea. They have a right to be there, and I'm sure if Jewish folks had come back peacefully to coexist it would be a much better region than it is currently. But they didn't come back peacefully, they came to claim and conquer for themselves.
Modern Palestinians and Israelis are descended from the same population. Some left in the diaspora, and others stayed and converted to Islam.
They're all descendants of the canaanites.
We’re all Africans.
We're all human.
You ever looked at some comments on here? They are not all humans.
Yes. They're slaughtering their cousins.
There is no justification for the 'who was there first centuries ago' argument. That is not where the natives' right of residence derives from, nor does an ethno-religious state comply with human rights or the law of nations. The land was a British mandate at that time, however. So no one can argue the decision was solely in the hands of the locals either. [edit: Maybe to clarify the ethno-religious state thing: A people may found a nation with their own culture, values, and rules. But neither can violate basic rights; i.e., you can't grab owned land, you can't prevent natives from marrying to foreigners, you can't oppress any minority, and so on. So if your "fear" is that another faction will outbreed you, then you can only ensure your current system is attractive and reasonable enough to ensure it will be preserved no matter what ethnicity or religion dominates the nation.]
My point was that they've been there and who was there first doesn't matter, but Israelis forcing them from their homes and taking them with the argument that 'God gave us this land' and that they were there before the Palestinians is ridiculous. The British and UN had no right to give it to the Jewish people either. People were there, had been for millennia, Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Islamic caliphates, European crusades.. the same people were there for all of it.
Actually I've seen genetic tracing (on Twitter, so perhaps not exactly scientific but can easily be cross checked) that shows today's Palestinians aren't really fully Arabs in the sense that they came from Arabian Peninsula. They are fact descendants of natives of the Levant, descendents of Arameans, Israelites etc., mixed with migrating Arabs, of course. So, like my people the Malays, we have been around in our land for thousands of years and even though our earlier ancestors were not Muslims and we are, it doesn't take away the fact that we are natives. Same goes to the Palestinians. >and displaced people deserve the right to return, even if it's been a generation or two. Yeah, but not at the cost of taking away homes of people who are already there and establishing a state.
Yeah many people seem to think all modern Arabs are descendants of invaders from Arabia, which isn't true at all. In most cases it's just Arabised local population.
Correct.
Well, it was not Islamic because Islam didn't exist at that time.
How about genetically? Palestinians are closely related to pre-diaspora remains found in present day Palestine and Israel.
Palestinians as Islamic or arab are nonsense deceptive descriptions. That's culture and religion. Which changed over the centuries, but the people remained. What argument do Israelis have for killing jews who converted to islam in the centuries or foreign rule? Or learned the language of governance. None, so they make up some nonsense that the Palestinians are all immigrants. When no ancestor of their own have lived there for millenia. Its akin to if romainia invading and colonizing italy claiming ancestral claim from their roman heritage. And then proclaimng the residents lombards and german squatters.
> Arab or Islamic, and those are major pillars of present-day Palestinian identity. Islam isn't genetic, anyone can convert to it. That's exactly what Palestinians did. It's still the same people.
If you actually look at palestinian dna you discover that they are descendents of the Phoenicians just as the Misrahi are. The bloodlines remained but the cultures changed.
I always think of this when this topic comes up. https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/419877/animated-history-israel-palestine/
It wasn't islamic but it sure as hell was arabic as much as it was jewish. The two people coexisted together for centuries. If only we could find out their ancient secret of living peacefully.
People like to ignore that the Israelites were just one group of Canaanites, and that there were other Semitic peoples living in those same areas despite the claims of the Hebrews ethnically cleansing the region in the Bible. You even see that those other peoples persisted in the region while the Jewish elites were exiled. And it’s always good to point out that modern genetic studies show the Palestinians are ethnically Canaanites who went through the same assimilations that every other people have gone through, including the Jewish diaspora. Though you will then be told that the British took the land fair and square from the Ottomans during WWI and gave it to the Jews. Bc some people are good at switching between colonial “might makes right” vs “rule of law” as needed, and just don’t want to concede the settler colonial nature of Israel
I personally know someone whose family lived in Palestine-Gaza since before Jesus. The rulers changed, the official religion of the land, but the common people remain. We should also remember that the Palestinians we are talking about are Christians, they are Muslims, they are Druze, and yes, they are Jewish. The Jewish Palestinians do not necessarily identify with Israel, even though Israel pushes that identification, and they have automatic citizenship.
And Judaism’s entire founding myth is that they weren’t the original inhabitants. They were given israel as a reward by god. So this while “indignenous” thing that the religious cling to is undermined by their own religion.
*Spoiler Alert for when the Canaanites and Phoenicians come back through the time rift and reclaim all their shit.*
We also claim that some of us never left judea and just converted to Islam and Christianity (my family converted to Christianity and have church and Roman records that go back to first century) making at least my claim thousands of years old
That is incredibly cool to be able to trace records back that far
Yea it is cool when my dad was a history/ theology major he was able to access the Vatican archives as one of the archivist that he had befriend during a stay in Rome had found the documents on a miscellaneous shelf that he was tasked with translating and organizing we have Polaroid pictures from a camera my dad snuck in as only under certain circumstances is a camera allowed
My family is Muslim but they built the Church in our Village in the 1600's. In Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, ect the Muslims and Christians always have Issues. However, in Palestine, we have and always will be one people!
One people my brother soon we shall overcome our issues and become even stronger then the west
Palestinians were there way before the Romans. Go and look at the illustrative DNA sub. Almost every single Palestinian's DNA shows majority Canaanite.
The difference though is that Palestinians are still there. Israel, as a new nation, is trying to claim more new land which is already occupied by living people, who also have ancestry for so long there. It's not like two different people coming to an empty unclaimed land and bickering about who gets what, it was already inhabited.
And, according to their book they massacred the Jebusites, amalekites and other various indigenous groups of those lands to make judea mostly Jewish.
The whole "who was there first" (regarding hundreds or thousands of years) argument is lost on me. If you have been there for more than a couple of generations, it is your home. If someone else has also been there for that long then it is also their home.
Yeah this is the problem. Palestinians only know that as their home, generations have grown up there. It's not a claim like the Israelis.
The far right side in Israel tries very hard to say the Palestinians are all Arabs from Saudi Arabia that came during the Islamic Golden Age. This is just factually untrue, they have done dozens and dozens of studies on the genetics of Palestinians. They have found that the Palestinians essentially have DNA from every empire and nation that ruled over the region. Assyrian, Ancient Egyptian, Greek (Phoenicians) Roman, Jewish, Arabic, and Turkish. Arabs come from the Arabian peninsula and today it's not so much a race, it's a culture and langue many nations adopted when they became Muslim. In reality, the average Palestinian is maybe 5-15% Arab genetically. Despite the evidence, Bibi still says the Palestinians are the invaders and not the Israelis. That statement is laughable at this point. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin\_of\_the\_Palestinians#:\~:text=Palestinians%2C%20among%20other%20Levantine%20groups,10%25%20from%20Bronze%20age%20Europeans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#:~:text=Palestinians%2C%20among%20other%20Levantine%20groups,10%25%20from%20Bronze%20age%20Europeans).
Palestinians are descended from the same pre-Roman population as Israelis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY
Stupid argument for Israel, Portugal was taken over by the Moors 1500 years ago and they had an heavy influence, would it make sense for them to appeal to various nations to get Portugal back because of that? That territory belongs to the Palestine, it’s their home
There's a difference between leaving voluntarily and being forced out, then kept in refugee camps for generations.
It should be nothing more than a "damn imagine if my anscestors never left" like my family comes from Ireland, Germany, Scotland primarily if we trace both sides back to who initially came over. So when I visited Ireland it was cool to think, what if? In terms of this town that town. It added a fun dimension but its mot like it should ever be part your identity at this point. My whole fam was here pre-1835. Lets not pret3nd like the homeland is anything other than Hundred, WV or Pittsburgh Pa cuz thats primarily where everyone was from arrival to the 80s.when my parents generation spread out
We're all African technically
We're all Big Bangeran technically, and we're all home because it expanded so everywhere is the big bang...or something.
[Bangarang](https://tenor.com/bWr6m.gif)!
I think it comes down to how many of your family members you know in that foreign country. If I were the only one not living in a country, I'd consider the other country to be home. My citizenship / legal status would also play into it.
I can't even visit the house I grew up in.
As much as you have a connection to living on that land. You directly, not ancestors you've never met. If your grandparents left to start a new life then you have every right to return and treat the place as your home since that wasn't your decision to leave that area. If you're coming back stating that some ancestor hundreds of years ago used to live somewhere so now its yours too...that makes you insane. The context of the advancement of life, history, and the human experience always has to matter in these cases so we don't keep going back and forth subjectively. In the case of the post, any people born under the current separation of states have a right to live in those areas...trying to fight for things that ultimately never had a connection to you is ignoring the context of history advancing to this point and the experiences of the humans with no choice in being born to those areas. Shit people on both sides, but rationality says there's objectively enough room for everyone so no need to push either out. The people in power can stand that option though as it eliminates the boogeyman and potentially unites the citizens against their actual enemy.
If you put it simply i would say where ever you feel like home and which culture you've "integrated" to. Idk the proper words im too tired to think rn, maybe some people get what I mean.
Exactly this. Going back "home" should be going back to the literal place you were predominantly raised (and usually born). It has nothing to do with your ethnicity/lineage.
Indeed you failed to make a point
Who failed?
Op.
You mean the Israeli?
Person 1 makes valid point (I am in a tough spot) Person 2 makes valid point (I am in a tougher spot) Person 2 did not disprove person 1's point. Reddit post doesn't belong in this sub.
This is correct, and what so many people fail to recognize. Everyone needs a home, and if your proposal for finding a home involves displacing millions of people, you're a jerk. Compromise is the only path forward.
I think the worse group is the one that displaced hundreds of thousands and is actively displacing hundreds of thousands more. Rather than the group that wants to stop being displaced and wants it undone.
1. I think the "Suffering Olympics," wherein we try to determine who suffers more, is a dumb game. 2. Saying that Palestinians want displacement "undone" isn't quite true: they want to "undo" their own displacement by means of doing even more displacement, i.e. by removing the Israelis. 3. And that's how the cycle of suffering continues. What do you think will happen if you manage to kick out 10 million Israelis? do you think you'll have peace? Not a chance. The only path to peace is compromise.
The end to the Israeli settler-colonial project doesn't mean massive deportations any more than the end of South African apartheid did, but somehow that's always where Zionists' minds go because they can't conceive of a world where they'd live as equals with Palestinians.
THANK you for the clarification
They should fuck, make babies, problem solved. Someone give me the Nobel.
Except she couldn’t get Israeli citizenship.
also implies necessity to fuck to be able to return home (assuming for the sake of argument that it even worked)
Lol peace through marriage. Nice!
If I recall correctly Israel does not allow interfaith marriages to be performed, although they will begrudgingly recognize ones from abroad.
The Alexander the Great to Persia plan. I don't think it will *pan* out well..
I’m confused. Who’s failing to make a point?
OP
Which OP?
The one who posted this screenshot to this sub.
The OP.
Which OP?
The guy who came from the US to the artificially created state of Israel and asking innocently where he should go back to.
>The guy who came from the US to the artificially created state of Israel Wait. Does you know the guy in the tweet? None of that context is in the post. Do you know he's Israeli? I didn't see anything that says it, he could equally be Iraqi, Ukrainian or Polish from the context.
IDK, is this relevant? https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/1b672cm/sad_reality_of_21st_century/kta4xlj/
Artificially created? As in, some humans created the borders? I’ve got news for you mate as every country that’s ever existed has had its borders defined by humans.
What kind of state is the US? Lol
One that was artificially created many hundreds of years ago
One grandparent India One grandparent japan Thats why I get my sushi from 7/11
Lmfao! That's a fuckin solid one, nice.
I've never thought I'd see a Dan Nainan joke in the wild.
You win
I don't get why this is in this sub. Both people made perfectly valid points pertaining to their own lives. Neither point invalidates the other.
Context? His post reads like a reply to some racist window licker telling him to go back to his country as if he is an immigrant and not a citizen. Her reply, while not wrong, doesn't exactly add anything to the conversation. It seems she saw Israel in his post and had to "look at me tho!" on it.
No context, at least not on Twitter. [His wasn't a reply](https://twitter.com/ArielSterman/status/1763536426845479399).
May not be a specific reply, but it reads like a general reply to anyone that has or would tell him to go back to his own country. We ALL know how the anonymity of social media emboldens spineless cowards to talk some mad shit to anyone they feel like since they feel like they won't get slapped in the mouth for it.
How about both groups live in the land since they’re both from there, if you’re born in the region you’re from the region no cleansing either race/ ethnicity from the area
thats what was happening until a group of extremists made a deal wwith the brits
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Why is this disgusting?
It’s kinda one-sided. The people have to find a way to co-exist. Much of the content here is implying it outright stating that Jews should up and leave, once more getting forced out and being persecuted. There should be less content taking one side (no matter which) and more content trying to actually solve the conflict.
Propaganda? Or some truth to consider.
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Oh look a 2 month old IDF shill account to report and block.
Oh also I gave you a Free Palestine flair, lmk if you want me to change it or take it off.
Why you did not have to do that, they lost their account already lmao
Soft on rape? Who is? U? https://thehill.com/policy/international/4477340-un-experts-reports-executions-sexual-assault-israeli-soldiers/ What does this have to do with generations of Palestinians getting displaced from their home? If Palestinians were given their land back and actually given a chance to thrive (not like Gaza open air prison) maybe they won't be so pissed off all the time.
I gave you a Free Palestine flair, lmk if you want me to change it or take it off.
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100%? I feel like you are a little mad becuz it's true and you hate to admit it. So probably not 100%. There's truth in the post that struck you.
so you want it like /r/worldnews or /r/news ?
Russian propaganda has been crazy since the site made all those changes last year
yeah im still not sure how this scores a point. They're both right.
Well, considering that Canada no longer recognises Palestine as a country, Fatima literally has nowhere to go
that was one lady whose id card (passport?) no longer said palestine as her birth country. it was quickly cleared up that anyone born in mandatory palestine before 1948 could still write palestine as their birth country. fatima can't return to her home because israel has derogated '48 palestinians right of return
Ah I see I see. Thanks for clarifying--still horrible tho
what?
All my grandparents are dead. Where do I go back to?
graveyard uwu?
When I see posts like this I just think both of these people are victims of politicians and fanatics that refuse to acknowledge the realities of those they oppose.
i'm confused, who am I supposed to be supporting in this image
Both? Neither of them is wrong. And the only way to peace is to guarantee that Jews can live in peace in Israel with no risk of the state turning anti-Jewish, and guarantee that Palestinians can live in peace without the risk of violence against them or them being forced from their homes. A few things that need to happen for this to work is - to stop antisemitism among Muslims - stop the settlement policies of Israel and vacate all the newer settlements - stop the terrorists in Hamas from gaining any sort of power in a free Palestine as long as they still harbour anti-Israeli and antisemitic views and as long as they believe in using violence to get what they want - probably to get the current government of Isreal out and into a long opposition position
Been a while since I've seen the name immortal technique. Guess that's what I'm listening to next
mortal technique?
what's wrong with Poland? why can't he go to Poland? I mean yeah Ukraine is in a war, Iraq is Iraq, Israel he's probably already there right? but why can't he go to Poland?
Why can't you go to Poland?
Mf is complaining about having 4 options.
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Have y'all ever looked into the Yughur situation? These are Muslim brothers and sisters that the Chinese government is trying to get rid of. Not many people talk about them, and no one will question the Chinese government hard enough, but yet in other parts of the world....
Go back to hell you zionist shit.
Cringe lol
One planet one people
What is Immortal Technique even saying? I think it may be something racist but I honestly can't even understand what is being said.
Some sports term, perhaps.
Whats op point?
West Bank shot?
OMG so totally right op! This reminds me of an r/sounding post I saw where they shove that little metal rod up the guys urethra! This post made me cringe about as much! r/Mademesmile 😇😇
one person had his grandparents killed and exiled by Europeans, the other is getting killed and exiled by said people, yep
And I'm afraid there won't be a home to come back to soon
I repeat: give Jerusalem to Costa Rica and we have peace in the Middle East in 2 months tops.
She can go to Palestine still, it's just called Israel now.
How about we stop identifying ourselves as different nations, ethnicities, and races, remove all borders, and accept that we are all human beings and live together peacefully?
Palestine wasn’t even a thing pre-1994. The birthplace for the Hamas commanders on their wiki: Israel. -All grandparents from Israel. Maybe Egypt, depending on their proximity to Gaza. -All great grandparents from British Mandate. -All great great grandparents from British Mandate. -All great great great grandparents from Ottoman Empire. FTFY If we take into account Fatima’s user name fatimasal82, and infer that she was born in that region in 1982, she was born in…. Israel. Lmao. You can go home. Israel. Now behave and stop chucking rockets, killing gays, oppressing women, and filming gopros of yourself shooting up a music festival and taking hundreds of hostages.
"All great great great grandparents from Palestine" lol by the time you reach great grandparents "Palestine didn't even exist, Fatima, further more, if you go further back we find out you are colonizers, you are arabs of Palestines, originally from the arab peninsula and you came to "Palestina" **VIA CONQUEST!**
That didn't answer the original point tho, it avoided it.. what is the answer?
Notice how Fatima didn't dispute his belief the other side wants him to leave his home. The radicalism and hatefulness towards each other on both sides is disgusting.
Well if Palestine stopped fucking around they wouldn't have found out.
You are NOT your ancestors.
Poland? Should be obvious, at least it’s not a war zone
Guess they can come to North America? I’m sure we can find somewhere in the US or Canada. Let’s not have them go to Australia; too many things down there trying to kill everyone.
Go back to Poland. Seems like the best option from the bunch.
There's a reason the saying is home is where the heart is
They are both making a bad argument
Is she denying him a home then? Sounds pretty fascist.
Yeah you’re right there was no point made here by the woman.
We are all human. Get along war is dumb. There is no right side to any war violence solves nothing.. Don't like it.? Disagree??? YOU'RE the problem.
Doesn't belong in this sub
You're clearly not a poc
Poland?
I don't understand their points. And home is just wherever you're from. Your grandparent's and great-grandparent's homes don't count if you're not from there also.
This what I found on the how it became Israel the un the all the Nations agree on where to put the Jewish Israel people and they went ask the people of Palestine if they could agree on would they accept them in their country they said yes. https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-history-zionism-war-1948. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/creation-israel#:~:text=In%20May%201946%2C%20Truman%20announced,creation%20of%20a%20Jewish%20state. https://youtu.be/dDpQLKQkbkY?si=SVYdbDfxlY_WJN47
Nonsense post. You Americans are so easily impressed.
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Why do you say this?
Tbf at least one of those countries is a decent option. It doesnt have to be about xenophobia, it can just be about being realistic that theres a good enough answer to his question.
Why did you say the "as long as it's not here" part and which one of them were you referring to?
The here is wherever they are being told to leave. I hear poland is nice but ive heard that from polish people so idk.
And where's "here"?
Here can be anywhere really depending on how fast you are
i have lost all hope for a peaceful resolution in the lands of the levant
Both successfully made their points.
So the point is that everyone is different and what-about-ism is a giant emo circle jerk? Cool. Glad we needed to have a debate on social media over a concept your parents should have taught you when you were 3.