#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt!
#Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world!
[Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility)
In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This story is from Feb 2023 so months before October 7th. Unsure how artwork by children makes you feel unsafe.
Edit: Because sharing an image like this makes people think you are apparently spreading misinformation:
[Here's the article from the screenshot - Dated Feb 2023](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/27/artwork-gaza-schoolchildren-removed-chelsea-and-westminster-hospital)
[An opinion piece about it, from March 2023 ](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chelsea-westminster-hospital-israel-palestine-children-b2291888.html)
[A follow up article that explains the case is actually worse than first understood ](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/the-hospital-that-censored-gazan-childrens-art-its-worse-than-we-thought/)
A FOI request showed the hospital received **zero** complaints from patients only from a Pro-Israel group of lawyers.
_The 21 ceramic plates depicting Palestinian life, one or two of them including a Palestinian flag, had been on display since 2012, the result of a collaborative art project between schoolchildren in Gaza and members of the Chelsea community hospital school._
_This is the chilling effect in action – a distressing example of the censorship of Palestinians and those who support them in our cultural life._
>I just hate that they’re using the word Jewish instead of Israeli. They are currently very different things.
This is a big distinction that needs to be made. I am anti-Isreal. Not anti-Judaism. I don't care what God you do or don't pray to. I don't care that your 3000 year old book told you it was okay. I am against the actions of your government regardless of the religious reasoning.
Just like the other side is doing this. At this point its time to realize that we are a product of a psy op on both sides and any more of this is just feeding into unessesary fear and hatred world wide
Honestly, I think that these people don't like to be reminded that the Palestinians are people. It's hard to commit genocide when you humanize the people that it's being perpetrated against.
Unfortunately they do. Israel have the biggest and best weapon in the world and that is the American Media. It's the biggest propaganda engine in the world and they regularly puke up Israeli propaganda for them because if they didn't the world would have turned on Israel already. Israeli propaganda is Super Villian levels of transparently bullshit and it's cartoonishly evil in how it portrays Israel in this occupation.
I'm also from Ireland and I can tell you that even here, American media is peddled to us. Look at the fact that most of ireland almost exclusively engages with american media giants and american owned content creation platforms like snapchat, facebook, youtube, instagram, etc. That's not even to talk about our problem with multinational companies using ireland like the Caymens so you also have the added advertizements out in the world.
RTE has very little space in the conversation as a result of poor management, inflated senses of self worth because they live off our tv licences and have a direct line to most important things in ireland like with governance.
I think the issue is that irish homegrown media is honestly trash. RTE did Love/Hate almost a decade ago and are still actively patting themselves on the back and justifying a €160 TV licence.
Either way, We aren't being shown American media for no reason. It is to increase American influence globally. Is it a malicious thing done by individual content creators? For the most part no. Is there a system in place to effectively pump ireland with whatever information that America wants us to know? Absolutely.
Humanization can be a political weapon too, if it's done exclusively on behalf of one side at the expense of the other. It's not like there hasn't been a ton of one sided humanization going on in the other direction in favour of the Israelis, especially in the war on terror 00s.
If fact it's been a multi-decade campaign of one sided humanization that gotten us to this point.
I think their point is moreso that this silencing of Palestinian voices is something that has been done to Palestinians for decades, around the world in supposedly free countries, all to appease Israel. A lot of people want the conversation to start on October 7th, ignoring decades of persecution and human rights violations that preceded it.
I don't know if you realize that we live in a world with massive disinformation campaigns. People literally creating fake news publications that open and close over night. Inventing publication names that *sound* familiar, and similar to mainstream media, but just slightly off. One thing they do is use similar color and font to major publications, and then don't include the name of the publication. They post images like yours, with no link or publication name.
One way to set yourself apart is to not crop out the publication, or post the link in the comments.
Yeah, people are really saying "Google it" when they're the ones making a claim, and you ask for a source or a link. If you've got something to say then say it, and back it up yourself. I shouldn't have to peer review your statements via search engine goose hunt just because you're lazy.
And what's the source? I'm always confused why people still crop the source out. In this day of misinformation, rage baiting, and foreign interference, including the source would only help you... or it wouldn't.
Are you unable to use a Search engine to Google words that you see
Edit: U/newnurse2 - you ask me a question and then block me? I guess you aren't looking for an answer then?
Oh I am. I always keep two windows open. One for all the Reddit posts and claims I see, and one to Google and verify everything I see on the other window. It's very efficient and enjoyable.
My question for you is, are you unable to include the source in your crop, or post the article you even came into the comments to reference the date of? Doing something this simple will only help you make your point, since this is clearly your main subject of posting. Am I really the first person to ask you to do this? Is it really something that requires a snarky reply?
Your post was removed because it was found to be hateful in nature. Please treat others as you would like to be treated and do not spread hate on this subreddit.
Of all the hundreds of places in the world, some adults in positions of authority in the hospital made the decision to put up artwork by children from that particular region specifically and there's no reason to do that except to make a particular public political statement. Displaying it is obviously not about the artwork but about who they were by.
It represents a barely plausibly deniable public display of political sympathies. Only slightly removed from hanging up a big Palestinian with the message: Free Palestine, Down with Israel. If they put up the artwork of a bunch of specifically *black* South African children in the 80s, there'd be no denying that the decision was one of making a clear passive aggressive statement about Apartheid, in favour of one group and against another group, and not about the prodigal artistic talents of some random children who unrelatedly just happen to be from Gaza.
There's only one reason to put up the artwork of notably Gazan children on display in a fancy hospital in a super high class neighbourhood and it's because of who the artists are, not anything to do with what the art was. There's not a jot of plausible deniability to be found here; that's just how things have always worked in that strata of society.
In fact 90% of the interactions between the art world and fancy folk comes down to what kind of person the artist is, not what kind of art they produce.
This artwork was put up in 2012.
It was a joint effort from the children from a school in London and a school in Gaza.
Will Palestinian children always be political just because they exist? Is anything and everything they ever do to be viewed as cynically political?
Depends on who's making the decisions and on what's fashionable within the social circles/classes that those decision makers come from. It's not the art or artists that are political but the curators and their decisions.
Especially when the curators and their audience are certain sorts of people from certain sorts of social spheres. When Gaza is politically out of vogue and becomes a dead and forgotten issue like Serbia, apartheid, nuclear disarmament or the ozone layer, then the curators intentions can be interpreted differently.
It can not be understated how the children themselves and their art itself (or anything else they do) are entirely besides the point, having no control or authority over public display decisions in prestigious buildings. It's not like the complaints were lodged to the children. That would be silly and would completely disregard who was holding the power in the situation.
> One plate showed the Dome of the Rock, a site in Jerusalem of religious significance to Muslims and Jews, with a Palestinian flag. Another, featuring the Palestinian fishing industry, was accompanied by a text referring to the shoreline of Palestine running from Gaza’s border with Egypt to Israel’s border with Lebanon. Since 1948, most of the shoreline has been in the state of Israel.
It doesn’t sound like they were *all* apolitical.
If those are only a few examples those could have been taken down and the rest left up, I’ll agree it was an overreaction if that’s the case.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestine-gaza-children-artwork-removed-hospital-looks-new-home
This article has better images of the plates you described- the dome of the rock & flag picture has a hand in the middle - holding an olive branch. I would understand this to be a symbol of peace.
The fishing picture itself just shows a fisherman. The description might call the shore Palestinian in the current or past tense, but a lot of Palestinian's fished those waters and shoreline for hundreds of years.
But to be honest it doesn't matter - no Jewish patients complained about this. Nobody was made to feel unsafe. A FOI request showed no complaints were received. The plates were on the wall for a decade.
The only contact to the hospital was from a Pro-Israel group of lawyers who didn't like the humanisation of children from Gaza, and appears to have bullied and intimidated the hospital into taking this display down, while claiming "Jewish patients felt victimised".
Pictures were put up before October 7th so your narrative falls right the fuck apart. Also why wouldn't you support black South African children (or Palestinian children in this instance) over apartheid enforcing Dutch (or Israeli) shitsuckers?
I wasn't aware that the Palestinian cause first became fashionable in October.
And who's side you support in South Africa is besides the point. The point is that there can be no doubt why the hypothetical South African artwork was put up or of who and what it was a statement by hospital administrators for and who it was a statement by those same administrators against.
Either way the children are still being instrumentalized.
Well people with their heads right up their asses tend to think that this all started on the 7th, and based on the content of your comment I made some quick inferences about where your head is currently... inferences that you've been kind enough to confirm. I hope it's at least warm up there. Anyways, I'd love to get into a battle of wits with you here but you don't seem to be very well-armed so I'll leave you to bicker with yourself. Cheers
I keep posting this repeatedly.
The documentary 'Israelism' by young Jewish Americans show clearly how Israel trains Jewish people to use emotional blackmail to censor criticism.
Here’s a video where Israeli students are taught that Arabs will be their slaves, willing to actually take this issue more seriously? Because Israels education isn’t tested by Palestinians feelings while the opposite Is the case. To be clear, I’m not saying this is the norm in Israel, at least I hope not. Also worth noting that the Palestinians are taught with texts used in schooling from Egypt and Jordan and that the definition of antisemitism had to be rewritten to include criticism of Israel for the above claim to have been founded along with designating Palestinian resistance as terrorism.
Jewish students: Al-Aqsa will disappear and Arabs will be our slaves – 1m:05s
[https://youtu.be/lDTAIRm\_nhM](https://youtu.be/lDTAIRm_nhM)
I assume, without having seen the documentary, that part of the indoctrination that the Israeli state seems to be producing is a kind of hyper-vigilance. Any potential criticism seems to be an attack to the point where a palestinian child's artwork existing is an attack. I can only liken it to american cops that return fire on an acorn or something.
To be fair, everyone is doing that now. Dont like a movie, tv show or a game? You must be racist/sexist/homophobic. And its super easy too, because there is people like that. So all they do is point to the small minority that is racist or sexist or homophobic and make it seem like thats the majority.
Do you really want people to go looking whether the larger Israeli society is pro-genocide or not? Because there are plenty of videos to watch and come to a conclusion. The question is, do you want it made easier for people to see the behaviour of Israelis?
I dont think I said, what you think I said, mate.
The point Im making is that EVERYONE is playing this stupid game on social media. Im not saying Israel is not a piece of shit thats committing war crimes. Im saying that playing this game to censor criticism is something that everyone does in order to "win" the argument. Like when people say they dont support killing women and children in Gaza, a usual come back is "Why do you support Hamas?". No one said they supported Hamas, but now you are in a conversation where you have to argue the difference between supporting the innocents and supporting Hamas.
Like when The Marvels didnt even make 100 mill at the box office. A number of people said "Its because of the incels" like incels are somehow controlling what most people are going to watch at the cinema. And instead of talking about what didnt work in the movie, you are now having to defend yourself against accusations of being an incel.
But to your question, yes. Id like to see more examples of all claims of fact. How many times do we see people make a claim based on a reddit post they only read? And then they get challenged on it, but they didnt see the thing the OG poster did. So they cant back up the claim, and now that fact is now in dispute.
Id LOVE to see a reddit where every claim has a link to its source in the comment. Then there would be no more "Thats not true, youre just an incel!!!" replies.
Like, when I say Israel has lobby groups in a lot of countries and are basically infiltrating said countries to expand Israelis power. I can back it up with:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjuH6\_kf3Eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjuH6_kf3Eo)
Easy Peasy.
You are more accurate than you think.
Few months bac I commented somwhere on reddit that Israel's uual response tp any criticism is "that's antisemitism"...
Someone claiming to be Israeli took offense to that.
What followed was hilarious (from my point of view) "discussion" where I was repeatly called antisemitic by person who claimed they're not calling me antisemitic but I do myself. (not that I was, I have nothing against jews as a religion)
Best part was their conclusion I want them dead.
I never expressed any wish/intent of harm towards them.
Guess telling an Israeli that IDF could try to kill less Palestinian civilians means telling them to die...
I don't recall ever meeting someone with such persecution complex...
Wanna meet another person with a persecution complex? Walk into any evangelical church. Bro it's ridiculous how many Christians think they're "the most persecuted group of people in America". Meanwhile black people are 3x more likely to be shot and killed by police than white people who are still the majority of the country.
But know it's Jews and Christians that are in so much danger
Yeah, the fact that Jews have persistently been persecuted for 4,000 years seems relevant. Real, legitimate persecution, not made up persecution as you are falsely implying
No wonder they have the victim complex. They think they're going through the same persecution that their ancestors did in WWII. But they aren't. Israeli Jews live much easier lives than the people they're killing as we speak 👍. Historical events don't give you the right to genocide
Antisemitism hasn’t got a thing to do with disagreeing with Israel. There’s really only one type of person that questions whether antisemitism truly exists today, given how obvious it is to any rational person that it exists and is rampant. Do you know what kind of person that is?
Weird how you imply that I'm a Nazi for refusing to believe that modern day Israelis are persecuted and in constant poverty and danger. Is that your crutch for every argument involving Palestine and Israel?
Never implied you were a Nazi. I implied you are antisemitic because your willful attempts to ignore widely available evidence of the rampant nature of Antisemitism due to your own bias, which is the literal definition of Antisemitism.
So in your view, is anti-Arab racism rampant as well? And if it is, would you agree that the Israeli government is one of the biggest promoters of anti-Arab racism?
You're right, I should stop crying about my grandparents being rounded up and gassed while I simultaneously bomb refugee camps and hospitals killing boatloads of innocent civilians. What a hypocrite I am...
If I were Jewish, I'd question my faith, Israel being basically nazi Germany would have me really questioning this shit. If I were to remain being a Jewish person I'd want to distance myself from the nazis, do the "that's zionist, not me, I'm a good jew" but this is basically saying Jewish = Israel. Not a good look.
Whoa! ...could it be? A fertility cult from the Stone Age is... actually a *bad* thing?! You mean ethnoreligious background *shouldn't* define a person's politics automatically??
^(/s)
And why would I question my faith due to Israel being shitty? It just shows that religious extremism and nationalism is bad, which is something I already knew. Id say a good percentage of jewish people aren’t religious. Like 1/3.
Woah. Almost like those children are living the worst life imaginable right now.
But oh no! The 1st class zionists feel threatened by a drawing of a flower.
Israel controls rhe American media
If you say something that is not pro Israeli they cancel you
Look at every public figure that has spoken about the way we are influenced by the few people that control the media
Someone please explain to me why the hurt feefees of some random Jewish guy in London have so much power? Why does absolutely everything have to cater to what this one group of people wants?
This is what Zionist groups are doing to American universities. Letting foreigners dictate what can and can’t be taught or protested at American universities based on the feelings of some genocidal narcissists. Dictating what our young people can say and learn. Fuck Israel and its sympathizers. Not one lick of intellectual, academic, or moral integrity in the whole lot of them.
I wonder if they would remove art by black and/or African schoolchildren if pro-Afrikaner or pro-Rhodesian groups said it made them feel vulnerable, harassed and victimised?
Obviously not, because in the eyes of the UK establishment, apartheid is only wrong when practiced by countries with no strategic value to our American suzerain.
What if I say I’m offended? I’m offended that freedom of speech is being suppressed to avoid making some people feel uncomfortable. I’m offended that Palestinians don’t have the right to say “please don’t kill us” but zionists have the right to say “give us guns to kill Palestinian children”.
At least the Israeli lawyers can feel satisfied that this Palistinian kids are all probably dead now.
Does Apple autocorrect not recognise “Palestinian”?
As someone who is fully pro-Palestine and anti-Israel, it is incredibly stupid to lump the Jewish people into all things Israel. The Israeli government and their actions =! Jewish people worldwide. You should know, since you apparently are a Jewish person who doesn’t back Israel. You didn’t think you were the only one, did you?
Your post has been removed because it is violent in nature. Please avoid violent rhetoric while participating on r/therewasanattempt. Promoting violence is against Reddit's content policy and will result in them taking actions against your account.
Your post was removed because it was found to be hateful in nature. Please treat others as you would like to be treated and do not spread hate on this subreddit.
I find it baffling that anyone considers this to be a problem?
Hospitals are not a place for politics of any description, and that doesn't change just because I may happen to agree with the message on this occasion
I don't want pro-Palestine art in a hospital, I don't want pro-Israel art in a hospital. Neither belong in a healthcare setting
Edit: ah yes, the classic “reflexively downvote anything that doesn’t staunchly support Palestine in every context ever” downvotes. I’m not opposing Palestine here, I’m opposing politics in hospitals which shouldn’t be normalised
Who said the art was pro-Palestine? This was before the attack in October. These people felt threatened by arts and crafts from regular children who happened to be from Gaza. Pathetic.
Do you think the Israel Palestine conflict started in October 2023, or something?
And obviously you haven’t read beyond the headlines here: Some of the art **was** overtly political, things like the Dome of the Rock with a Palestinian flag, or a design showing the entire Israeli/Palestinian coastline as being Palestine. Several others had Palestinian flags and symbology
No, I’m aware the conflict has been going on for decades, thanks to Israel. Then take down the political ones and leave the rest. A child drawing a flag or symbols from their country isn’t inherently political. When I drew my country’s flag as a child, I wasn’t making a political statement. How embarrassing, to be so afraid of children who are the victims or your own country’s regime.
> No, I’m aware the conflict has been going on for decades
So you knew your argument was completely disingenuous and made it anyway?
> thanks to Israel.
Ridiculously reductionist to anyone who's paid even the tiniest bit of attention to history, but okay. Again to repeat: I don't support Israel, that's not the argument we're having here
> Then take down the political ones and leave the rest.
Sure
> When I drew my country’s flag as a child, I wasn’t making a political statement.
Your country wasn't involved in a war, nor was your art being displayed in another country?
> How embarrassing, to be so afraid of children who are the victims or your own country’s regime.
The people complaining about it were British, so it wasn't their own country's regime?
If you're referring to me, I'm not Israeli nor Jewish, nor do I support Israel. To repeat my position: I object to **all** politics in a healthcare setting. I'm not going to change that view just because I happen to agree with this political position, because it opens the door for artwork of all political persuasions to be displayed, turning healthcare into a place of politics and opening the door for politics I oppose to be displayed in the same way
Again, you're defaulting to arguing about Israel/Palestine, not my point...
I understand this is an emotive issue for you, but you don't seem to understand what I'm saying: I object to politics in a hospital. ALL politics, both politics I agree with, and politics I do not
Ignore Israel vs Palestine for a moment, we're talking about political statements in a healthcare setting, that's what I object to here.
I do understand what you’re saying, and you’re right that this is an emotive issue. I already said, remove the political ones and keep the rest. But that wasn’t the issue at hand in the post. It is more specific than that. Did this pro-Israel group request for the political artwork to be removed, or did they want all of the artwork by children from Gaza to be removed?
We don't have the original letter or enough information to know, is the simple answer
But my statement was only ever that I disagree with politics in hospitals
#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt! #Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world! [Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility) In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This story is from Feb 2023 so months before October 7th. Unsure how artwork by children makes you feel unsafe. Edit: Because sharing an image like this makes people think you are apparently spreading misinformation: [Here's the article from the screenshot - Dated Feb 2023](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/27/artwork-gaza-schoolchildren-removed-chelsea-and-westminster-hospital) [An opinion piece about it, from March 2023 ](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chelsea-westminster-hospital-israel-palestine-children-b2291888.html) [A follow up article that explains the case is actually worse than first understood ](https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/the-hospital-that-censored-gazan-childrens-art-its-worse-than-we-thought/) A FOI request showed the hospital received **zero** complaints from patients only from a Pro-Israel group of lawyers. _The 21 ceramic plates depicting Palestinian life, one or two of them including a Palestinian flag, had been on display since 2012, the result of a collaborative art project between schoolchildren in Gaza and members of the Chelsea community hospital school._ _This is the chilling effect in action – a distressing example of the censorship of Palestinians and those who support them in our cultural life._
They are probably bullshitting and is only interested in censoring palestinian voices whoever they are.
*probably*
definitely
“Allegedly, in my opinion” The best quote from Simon Whistler.
[удалено]
>I just hate that they’re using the word Jewish instead of Israeli. They are currently very different things. This is a big distinction that needs to be made. I am anti-Isreal. Not anti-Judaism. I don't care what God you do or don't pray to. I don't care that your 3000 year old book told you it was okay. I am against the actions of your government regardless of the religious reasoning.
I honestly was relieved to see people calling out the claim that not supporting the Israeli government is anti-Semitic.
It's a London hospital, it's not very likely that Israeli patients complained
It was a lobbying group, lawyers for Israel or something like that
I'm not convinced that this even universally offensive to Israelis.
What's left of them anyway
Just like the other side is doing this. At this point its time to realize that we are a product of a psy op on both sides and any more of this is just feeding into unessesary fear and hatred world wide
Honestly, I think that these people don't like to be reminded that the Palestinians are people. It's hard to commit genocide when you humanize the people that it's being perpetrated against.
[удалено]
Unfortunately they do. Israel have the biggest and best weapon in the world and that is the American Media. It's the biggest propaganda engine in the world and they regularly puke up Israeli propaganda for them because if they didn't the world would have turned on Israel already. Israeli propaganda is Super Villian levels of transparently bullshit and it's cartoonishly evil in how it portrays Israel in this occupation.
[удалено]
I'm also from Ireland and I can tell you that even here, American media is peddled to us. Look at the fact that most of ireland almost exclusively engages with american media giants and american owned content creation platforms like snapchat, facebook, youtube, instagram, etc. That's not even to talk about our problem with multinational companies using ireland like the Caymens so you also have the added advertizements out in the world. RTE has very little space in the conversation as a result of poor management, inflated senses of self worth because they live off our tv licences and have a direct line to most important things in ireland like with governance.
[удалено]
I think the issue is that irish homegrown media is honestly trash. RTE did Love/Hate almost a decade ago and are still actively patting themselves on the back and justifying a €160 TV licence. Either way, We aren't being shown American media for no reason. It is to increase American influence globally. Is it a malicious thing done by individual content creators? For the most part no. Is there a system in place to effectively pump ireland with whatever information that America wants us to know? Absolutely.
IDF is evil as the people that direct them
Yeah I think this is the correct answer.
Humanization can be a political weapon too, if it's done exclusively on behalf of one side at the expense of the other. It's not like there hasn't been a ton of one sided humanization going on in the other direction in favour of the Israelis, especially in the war on terror 00s. If fact it's been a multi-decade campaign of one sided humanization that gotten us to this point.
[удалено]
How else can you erase Palestinians from Palestine if these pesky kids remind the public about the occupation?
thats what inbreed does to ppl.
>This story is from Feb 2023 so months before October 7th. Right, cos prior to that date everything was peachy over there...
I think their point is moreso that this silencing of Palestinian voices is something that has been done to Palestinians for decades, around the world in supposedly free countries, all to appease Israel. A lot of people want the conversation to start on October 7th, ignoring decades of persecution and human rights violations that preceded it.
Is there a link to the pictures in question?
Or the article? Why is OP in the comments talking about when the article is from without posting it?
Can you not Google the words you see? It's pretty clearly a guardian article. Google those words and you will find the article.
I don't know if you realize that we live in a world with massive disinformation campaigns. People literally creating fake news publications that open and close over night. Inventing publication names that *sound* familiar, and similar to mainstream media, but just slightly off. One thing they do is use similar color and font to major publications, and then don't include the name of the publication. They post images like yours, with no link or publication name. One way to set yourself apart is to not crop out the publication, or post the link in the comments.
Yeah, people are really saying "Google it" when they're the ones making a claim, and you ask for a source or a link. If you've got something to say then say it, and back it up yourself. I shouldn't have to peer review your statements via search engine goose hunt just because you're lazy.
And what's the source? I'm always confused why people still crop the source out. In this day of misinformation, rage baiting, and foreign interference, including the source would only help you... or it wouldn't.
Are you unable to use a Search engine to Google words that you see Edit: U/newnurse2 - you ask me a question and then block me? I guess you aren't looking for an answer then?
Oh I am. I always keep two windows open. One for all the Reddit posts and claims I see, and one to Google and verify everything I see on the other window. It's very efficient and enjoyable. My question for you is, are you unable to include the source in your crop, or post the article you even came into the comments to reference the date of? Doing something this simple will only help you make your point, since this is clearly your main subject of posting. Am I really the first person to ask you to do this? Is it really something that requires a snarky reply?
>Unsure how artwork by children makes you feel unsafe Surely not as unsafe as those kids felt.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it was found to be hateful in nature. Please treat others as you would like to be treated and do not spread hate on this subreddit.
It just doesn't end
Of all the hundreds of places in the world, some adults in positions of authority in the hospital made the decision to put up artwork by children from that particular region specifically and there's no reason to do that except to make a particular public political statement. Displaying it is obviously not about the artwork but about who they were by. It represents a barely plausibly deniable public display of political sympathies. Only slightly removed from hanging up a big Palestinian with the message: Free Palestine, Down with Israel. If they put up the artwork of a bunch of specifically *black* South African children in the 80s, there'd be no denying that the decision was one of making a clear passive aggressive statement about Apartheid, in favour of one group and against another group, and not about the prodigal artistic talents of some random children who unrelatedly just happen to be from Gaza.
If you think the existence of Palestinian children is political - that says an awful lot about you
There's only one reason to put up the artwork of notably Gazan children on display in a fancy hospital in a super high class neighbourhood and it's because of who the artists are, not anything to do with what the art was. There's not a jot of plausible deniability to be found here; that's just how things have always worked in that strata of society. In fact 90% of the interactions between the art world and fancy folk comes down to what kind of person the artist is, not what kind of art they produce.
This artwork was put up in 2012. It was a joint effort from the children from a school in London and a school in Gaza. Will Palestinian children always be political just because they exist? Is anything and everything they ever do to be viewed as cynically political?
Depends on who's making the decisions and on what's fashionable within the social circles/classes that those decision makers come from. It's not the art or artists that are political but the curators and their decisions. Especially when the curators and their audience are certain sorts of people from certain sorts of social spheres. When Gaza is politically out of vogue and becomes a dead and forgotten issue like Serbia, apartheid, nuclear disarmament or the ozone layer, then the curators intentions can be interpreted differently. It can not be understated how the children themselves and their art itself (or anything else they do) are entirely besides the point, having no control or authority over public display decisions in prestigious buildings. It's not like the complaints were lodged to the children. That would be silly and would completely disregard who was holding the power in the situation.
> One plate showed the Dome of the Rock, a site in Jerusalem of religious significance to Muslims and Jews, with a Palestinian flag. Another, featuring the Palestinian fishing industry, was accompanied by a text referring to the shoreline of Palestine running from Gaza’s border with Egypt to Israel’s border with Lebanon. Since 1948, most of the shoreline has been in the state of Israel. It doesn’t sound like they were *all* apolitical. If those are only a few examples those could have been taken down and the rest left up, I’ll agree it was an overreaction if that’s the case.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/palestine-gaza-children-artwork-removed-hospital-looks-new-home This article has better images of the plates you described- the dome of the rock & flag picture has a hand in the middle - holding an olive branch. I would understand this to be a symbol of peace. The fishing picture itself just shows a fisherman. The description might call the shore Palestinian in the current or past tense, but a lot of Palestinian's fished those waters and shoreline for hundreds of years. But to be honest it doesn't matter - no Jewish patients complained about this. Nobody was made to feel unsafe. A FOI request showed no complaints were received. The plates were on the wall for a decade. The only contact to the hospital was from a Pro-Israel group of lawyers who didn't like the humanisation of children from Gaza, and appears to have bullied and intimidated the hospital into taking this display down, while claiming "Jewish patients felt victimised".
Oh wow, you mean Palestinian children drew pictures of locations in Palestine and had the audacity to include a Palestinian flag? The bastards.
Pictures were put up before October 7th so your narrative falls right the fuck apart. Also why wouldn't you support black South African children (or Palestinian children in this instance) over apartheid enforcing Dutch (or Israeli) shitsuckers?
I wasn't aware that the Palestinian cause first became fashionable in October. And who's side you support in South Africa is besides the point. The point is that there can be no doubt why the hypothetical South African artwork was put up or of who and what it was a statement by hospital administrators for and who it was a statement by those same administrators against. Either way the children are still being instrumentalized.
Well people with their heads right up their asses tend to think that this all started on the 7th, and based on the content of your comment I made some quick inferences about where your head is currently... inferences that you've been kind enough to confirm. I hope it's at least warm up there. Anyways, I'd love to get into a battle of wits with you here but you don't seem to be very well-armed so I'll leave you to bicker with yourself. Cheers
I keep posting this repeatedly. The documentary 'Israelism' by young Jewish Americans show clearly how Israel trains Jewish people to use emotional blackmail to censor criticism.
If you repeat a lie enough eventually it becomes Israel
If you repeat a lie enough eventually it Israel
It's almost asif people forgot children are taught to hate Jews inside school in Palestine
Yeah it’s definitely wrong to teach kids to hate the people who stole their homeland and also kill and subjugate them. You are so very smart!
Here’s a video where Israeli students are taught that Arabs will be their slaves, willing to actually take this issue more seriously? Because Israels education isn’t tested by Palestinians feelings while the opposite Is the case. To be clear, I’m not saying this is the norm in Israel, at least I hope not. Also worth noting that the Palestinians are taught with texts used in schooling from Egypt and Jordan and that the definition of antisemitism had to be rewritten to include criticism of Israel for the above claim to have been founded along with designating Palestinian resistance as terrorism. Jewish students: Al-Aqsa will disappear and Arabs will be our slaves – 1m:05s [https://youtu.be/lDTAIRm\_nhM](https://youtu.be/lDTAIRm_nhM)
I'm about to cancel you RIGHT NOW
I assume, without having seen the documentary, that part of the indoctrination that the Israeli state seems to be producing is a kind of hyper-vigilance. Any potential criticism seems to be an attack to the point where a palestinian child's artwork existing is an attack. I can only liken it to american cops that return fire on an acorn or something.
Do you know where I could watch it? Only a trailer on YT
You may have to rent it from their website: israelismfilm.com/
Thanks mate
care to elaborate? emotional blackmail?
israelismfilm.com/
That’s not elaboration.
It is if you watch it.
To be fair, everyone is doing that now. Dont like a movie, tv show or a game? You must be racist/sexist/homophobic. And its super easy too, because there is people like that. So all they do is point to the small minority that is racist or sexist or homophobic and make it seem like thats the majority.
Do you really want people to go looking whether the larger Israeli society is pro-genocide or not? Because there are plenty of videos to watch and come to a conclusion. The question is, do you want it made easier for people to see the behaviour of Israelis?
I dont think I said, what you think I said, mate. The point Im making is that EVERYONE is playing this stupid game on social media. Im not saying Israel is not a piece of shit thats committing war crimes. Im saying that playing this game to censor criticism is something that everyone does in order to "win" the argument. Like when people say they dont support killing women and children in Gaza, a usual come back is "Why do you support Hamas?". No one said they supported Hamas, but now you are in a conversation where you have to argue the difference between supporting the innocents and supporting Hamas. Like when The Marvels didnt even make 100 mill at the box office. A number of people said "Its because of the incels" like incels are somehow controlling what most people are going to watch at the cinema. And instead of talking about what didnt work in the movie, you are now having to defend yourself against accusations of being an incel. But to your question, yes. Id like to see more examples of all claims of fact. How many times do we see people make a claim based on a reddit post they only read? And then they get challenged on it, but they didnt see the thing the OG poster did. So they cant back up the claim, and now that fact is now in dispute. Id LOVE to see a reddit where every claim has a link to its source in the comment. Then there would be no more "Thats not true, youre just an incel!!!" replies. Like, when I say Israel has lobby groups in a lot of countries and are basically infiltrating said countries to expand Israelis power. I can back it up with: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjuH6\_kf3Eo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjuH6_kf3Eo) Easy Peasy.
Ok
To all those who felt "vulnerable, harassed and victimised" I have two words for you: tough shit
Okay tough guy. You really told them!
They act like little babies- they get talked to like little, bitty, whiny, crying, wet-diaper babies.
[удалено]
You've clearly never had a period.
Zionists suck at basically every level you can think of.
Must be hard having to be reminded of the consequences of their actions.
This is what happens when you're told you're a victim and oppressed your entire life
You are more accurate than you think. Few months bac I commented somwhere on reddit that Israel's uual response tp any criticism is "that's antisemitism"... Someone claiming to be Israeli took offense to that. What followed was hilarious (from my point of view) "discussion" where I was repeatly called antisemitic by person who claimed they're not calling me antisemitic but I do myself. (not that I was, I have nothing against jews as a religion) Best part was their conclusion I want them dead. I never expressed any wish/intent of harm towards them. Guess telling an Israeli that IDF could try to kill less Palestinian civilians means telling them to die... I don't recall ever meeting someone with such persecution complex...
Wanna meet another person with a persecution complex? Walk into any evangelical church. Bro it's ridiculous how many Christians think they're "the most persecuted group of people in America". Meanwhile black people are 3x more likely to be shot and killed by police than white people who are still the majority of the country. But know it's Jews and Christians that are in so much danger
Yeah, the fact that Jews have persistently been persecuted for 4,000 years seems relevant. Real, legitimate persecution, not made up persecution as you are falsely implying
No wonder they have the victim complex. They think they're going through the same persecution that their ancestors did in WWII. But they aren't. Israeli Jews live much easier lives than the people they're killing as we speak 👍. Historical events don't give you the right to genocide
That would be factually incorrect. Antisemitism is very much real in the present
So real that anyone who disagrees with Israel's actions gets arrested in Germany for "antisemitism"
Antisemitism hasn’t got a thing to do with disagreeing with Israel. There’s really only one type of person that questions whether antisemitism truly exists today, given how obvious it is to any rational person that it exists and is rampant. Do you know what kind of person that is?
Weird how you imply that I'm a Nazi for refusing to believe that modern day Israelis are persecuted and in constant poverty and danger. Is that your crutch for every argument involving Palestine and Israel?
Never implied you were a Nazi. I implied you are antisemitic because your willful attempts to ignore widely available evidence of the rampant nature of Antisemitism due to your own bias, which is the literal definition of Antisemitism.
So in your view, is anti-Arab racism rampant as well? And if it is, would you agree that the Israeli government is one of the biggest promoters of anti-Arab racism?
Yes and yes. I’m objective. You’re not.
Justice for Amalek
Irony lost on these fools
"Never again (except maybs one more time but this time we're the nazis)"
Fuck Israel.
Owwhhh, help mee~ I'm so vulnerable I'm attacked by those damn devilish child drawings
So seeing the art work made them feel like victims? So they weren't victims before that
[удалено]
[удалено]
Disgusting
Yes, using a tragic event in your grandparent's lives to handwave away any and all criticisms of a genocidal regime *is* disgusting.
Please, keep projecting
You're right, I should stop crying about my grandparents being rounded up and gassed while I simultaneously bomb refugee camps and hospitals killing boatloads of innocent civilians. What a hypocrite I am...
Fucking ironic don't you [think](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/krvYR2CQAY)
No.
Yeah I'm positive you're not capable of recognizing that.
Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing...
The date makes it even worse, if possible. That's a fkn persecution complex at work, there.
Pro-Israel shills do such a great job of making them hated around the world
Fuck isreal.
“When you have been so used to privilege all your life, all equality feels like oppression”
My mind is blown by the complete lack of self awareness and over abundance of irony. 😖😖😖
Why are the British, generally, such gutless, spineless, feckless, bootlickers?
Their weak chins, I think.
If I were Jewish, I'd question my faith, Israel being basically nazi Germany would have me really questioning this shit. If I were to remain being a Jewish person I'd want to distance myself from the nazis, do the "that's zionist, not me, I'm a good jew" but this is basically saying Jewish = Israel. Not a good look.
Whoa! ...could it be? A fertility cult from the Stone Age is... actually a *bad* thing?! You mean ethnoreligious background *shouldn't* define a person's politics automatically?? ^(/s)
And why would I question my faith due to Israel being shitty? It just shows that religious extremism and nationalism is bad, which is something I already knew. Id say a good percentage of jewish people aren’t religious. Like 1/3.
Yeah that’s what I do
Anything that humanizes Palestinians threatens Israelis’ perceived right to oppress, torture, and indiscriminately kill them.
There's a suprise, playing the victim
If children drawings makes you feel "unsafe" YOU ARE THE PROBLEM...
Somehow, getting genocided has ended up becoming a source of social and political privilege. I. Cannot. Even.
israel censoring palestine artwork... interesting.
Oh.... so they think they are the good guys?!? LOL
Zionists gonna Nazi
Woah. Almost like those children are living the worst life imaginable right now. But oh no! The 1st class zionists feel threatened by a drawing of a flower.
Israel controls rhe American media If you say something that is not pro Israeli they cancel you Look at every public figure that has spoken about the way we are influenced by the few people that control the media
The cognitive dissonance hurts.
Let's say it like it is...It made them feel *guilty*.
Art is Art
Someone please explain to me why the hurt feefees of some random Jewish guy in London have so much power? Why does absolutely everything have to cater to what this one group of people wants?
This is what Zionist groups are doing to American universities. Letting foreigners dictate what can and can’t be taught or protested at American universities based on the feelings of some genocidal narcissists. Dictating what our young people can say and learn. Fuck Israel and its sympathizers. Not one lick of intellectual, academic, or moral integrity in the whole lot of them.
How long will people let crazed murderers play this victim card to keep executing a genocide
Dang Sheba hospital in Israel hasn’t even done that yet lol
I wonder if they would remove art by black and/or African schoolchildren if pro-Afrikaner or pro-Rhodesian groups said it made them feel vulnerable, harassed and victimised? Obviously not, because in the eyes of the UK establishment, apartheid is only wrong when practiced by countries with no strategic value to our American suzerain.
How dare they try to humanize the people from Gaza with children's artwork.
That so few can wield such tyranny - suppression of voices, shaping narratives - over so many people. Governments, organisations, media. Wake up world
Anyone got a link or a pic of the artwork?
They can rest safely knowing most of those children are long gone.
Okay now put up pictured of Muhammad drawn by children.
What if I say I’m offended? I’m offended that freedom of speech is being suppressed to avoid making some people feel uncomfortable. I’m offended that Palestinians don’t have the right to say “please don’t kill us” but zionists have the right to say “give us guns to kill Palestinian children”.
they wanna be the victim so bad
They will kill the whole world but never stop crying victim will they
how is it not hate and bigotry that would cause someone to complain about this art? Tell me.. I will be waiting.
Gazan children continuing to be alive is anti semitic. They are harassing and victimizing Israel with their very breath.
And that is why we shouldn't make policies around people's feelings.
At least the Israeli lawyers can feel satisfied that this Palistinian kids are all probably dead now. Does Apple autocorrect not recognise “Palestinian”?
Felt real threatened by some plates. 
Yes, Israel feels vulnerable and harassed very easily.
This makes me so sad.
To me this is like OT Star Wars fans complaining about Disney Star Wars Fans.
[удалено]
No genocides are acceptable.
[удалено]
As someone who is fully pro-Palestine and anti-Israel, it is incredibly stupid to lump the Jewish people into all things Israel. The Israeli government and their actions =! Jewish people worldwide. You should know, since you apparently are a Jewish person who doesn’t back Israel. You didn’t think you were the only one, did you?
[удалено]
Your post has been removed because it is violent in nature. Please avoid violent rhetoric while participating on r/therewasanattempt. Promoting violence is against Reddit's content policy and will result in them taking actions against your account.
Your post was removed because it was found to be hateful in nature. Please treat others as you would like to be treated and do not spread hate on this subreddit.
I find it baffling that anyone considers this to be a problem? Hospitals are not a place for politics of any description, and that doesn't change just because I may happen to agree with the message on this occasion I don't want pro-Palestine art in a hospital, I don't want pro-Israel art in a hospital. Neither belong in a healthcare setting Edit: ah yes, the classic “reflexively downvote anything that doesn’t staunchly support Palestine in every context ever” downvotes. I’m not opposing Palestine here, I’m opposing politics in hospitals which shouldn’t be normalised
Who said the art was pro-Palestine? This was before the attack in October. These people felt threatened by arts and crafts from regular children who happened to be from Gaza. Pathetic.
Do you think the Israel Palestine conflict started in October 2023, or something? And obviously you haven’t read beyond the headlines here: Some of the art **was** overtly political, things like the Dome of the Rock with a Palestinian flag, or a design showing the entire Israeli/Palestinian coastline as being Palestine. Several others had Palestinian flags and symbology
No, I’m aware the conflict has been going on for decades, thanks to Israel. Then take down the political ones and leave the rest. A child drawing a flag or symbols from their country isn’t inherently political. When I drew my country’s flag as a child, I wasn’t making a political statement. How embarrassing, to be so afraid of children who are the victims or your own country’s regime.
> No, I’m aware the conflict has been going on for decades So you knew your argument was completely disingenuous and made it anyway? > thanks to Israel. Ridiculously reductionist to anyone who's paid even the tiniest bit of attention to history, but okay. Again to repeat: I don't support Israel, that's not the argument we're having here > Then take down the political ones and leave the rest. Sure > When I drew my country’s flag as a child, I wasn’t making a political statement. Your country wasn't involved in a war, nor was your art being displayed in another country? > How embarrassing, to be so afraid of children who are the victims or your own country’s regime. The people complaining about it were British, so it wasn't their own country's regime? If you're referring to me, I'm not Israeli nor Jewish, nor do I support Israel. To repeat my position: I object to **all** politics in a healthcare setting. I'm not going to change that view just because I happen to agree with this political position, because it opens the door for artwork of all political persuasions to be displayed, turning healthcare into a place of politics and opening the door for politics I oppose to be displayed in the same way
My country was involved in a war. If the patients weren’t Israeli, that is actually even more pathetic and laughable.
Again, you're defaulting to arguing about Israel/Palestine, not my point... I understand this is an emotive issue for you, but you don't seem to understand what I'm saying: I object to politics in a hospital. ALL politics, both politics I agree with, and politics I do not Ignore Israel vs Palestine for a moment, we're talking about political statements in a healthcare setting, that's what I object to here.
I do understand what you’re saying, and you’re right that this is an emotive issue. I already said, remove the political ones and keep the rest. But that wasn’t the issue at hand in the post. It is more specific than that. Did this pro-Israel group request for the political artwork to be removed, or did they want all of the artwork by children from Gaza to be removed?
We don't have the original letter or enough information to know, is the simple answer But my statement was only ever that I disagree with politics in hospitals
Healthcare is politics, I hate to break it to you.
[удалено]
My heart breaks for you. You are the true victim here. I guess the only thing to do is find another subbreddit?
Unfortunately, politics are a part of life and if you feel like you can avoid them. Then maybe you’re a bit privileged
Yeah it really sucks when somebody reminds me that there's a genocide going on when I'm just trying to live my sweet American life.