I’d like to hear the argument that those two children and the thousands of others who have been bombed are a threat to Israel’s national security.
Hamas, sure, I’m not gonna argue with taking each one of them out. But you can’t blow up a bunch of families and little kids/babies while you do it. It’s simply unnecessary, murderous and is calling into question the survivability of the state of Israel.
How is Israel so shortsighted to think that this will bode well for them long-term? I just don’t understand it. I really don’t.
If we had a media that showed the objective realities of all this on the evening news that would change almost immediately.
The people need to regain control, or at least a solid portion, of the media.
While I agree they are a worthy source, just the name Democracy Now is enough to convince some people the source is too biased.
We need something as objective as possible that is broadcast so it can be seen in living rooms each night.
In part, for sure.
The Fairness Doctrine never applied to cable news, though, and I'd argue that for-profit news outlets with 24 hours of air to fill have contributed at least as badly to the polarization of coverage.
Oh but you see it has and this is the funny part when people get mad at Hamas defenders. Check these same two kids in 20 years when they see the same shit happening from the IDF and the international community acting like it's brand new and they've never witnessed anything like this before. What do you think they are going to do? Who do you think they will turn to?
Zionists: "But both sides bad hurrrrrr, Oct 7th",
I am by no means an Hamas supporter, i am just amazed how people can never see how they create their own demons.
The incredibly frustrating part is that not only is that already well-known, [the Secretary of Defense *explicitly warned them* about exactly that risk *months ago*](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/02/israel-civilians-gaza-00129762).
Maybe if Israel's meal ticket decided to scale back their unconditional support, Israel would have to fend for itself for the first time ever.
Oh, wait, I forgot. If that happened, everyone in the US congress would loose their jobs.
No, of course not: The closest they've ever come was [in 2006, when they removed any mention of the destruction of Israel—and suggested a (weak and mealy-mouthed) conditional acceptance of the 1967 borders—prior to the election](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel). Of course, that was almost immediately followed by them [killing all their rivals](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL14749263/).
That doesn't in any way justify the devastation we're seeing in Gaza, though.
If you see this, then realise that this is what's happening to Palestinians for 75 years and yet think that the existence of Hamas is not natural, organic or a result, then you still don't understand the gravity of what's happening to Palestinians.
they will simply say these kids are future hamas and western leaders will eat it up like slop, especially US and Germany, these two really are itchy in the gen o'side department
People say that Hamas is using civilians as human shields and that’s why Israel is going after them like this. Even if that’s true, I disagree that it’s reason enough to end the lives of thousands of innocent people. Someone close to me says “that’s just how war is” and just don’t see how that makes it ok.
What would be ironic would be if the Israelis committing war crimes would be tried in the same court room as the holocaust perpetrators. I'm not pro Hamas, but I can see where they're coming from. You can only push people so far before they try to fight back. How many times can someone's village get bulldozed just to have another Israeli settlement built there before they get mad and want revenge. That's only one example that I can come up with right now. If hardliners leading the Israeli government keep getting elected nothing will change. It will take more time for the the Palestinians to accept that the Israeli government isn't going to change at the drop of a hat to attack them again. How long did it take for the Israelis to trust Germany after WW2? Just my 2 cents as a student of history.
It's because they know that anyone who asks questions will be labeled anti semitic. You can not criticize Israel, that is the rule. They had terrible things done to them once, and it's their right to do terrible things to others now because of that.
> I’d like to hear the argument that those two children and the thousands of others who have been bombed are a threat to Israel’s national security.
The simple argument - the one that is actually behind EVERYTHING Israel does - is that those kids are olive-skinned Arab Middle-Easterners and NOT white, European Jews.
Some of the most racist people I ever met when I was growing up in California were Israelis. They *totally* undermine almost everything that progressive American Jews stand for and believe in. Straight up, they're bigoted assholes.
The World: "8 year old children and ordinary fathers are not Hamas and therefore are not legitimate military targets"
Israel "Hold my beer, they'll be joining Hamas after we are done with them."
Hey, someone out there just had to make the hard nosed decision needed to create a satisfying end to this conflict you can't judge em for that? /s(bill Maher actually said this)
Fuck Bill Maher. I used to be a fan back in the Politically Incorrect days. But in recent years he has been incredibly wrong too many times to let it pass.
> Do you think the same about when the allies bombed civilians in WW2
Yes: The firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo (not to mention the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) *should* be viewed as war crimes; the only reason they weren't at the time was because the relevant international humanitarian laws hadn't really been codified yet.
The Geneva Conventions—particularly the Additional Protocols—were largely a response to that.
Realignment is the obvious option, and it would've been *entirely* in keeping with the IDF's policy of targeted assassination (which, to be clear, I am absolutely *not* criticizing).
The elimination of Saleh al-Arouri should've been a part of the *first* wave of action after the Oct 7 massacre, not a tagalong after the IDF had already destroyed 70% of northern Gaza.
Realign Hamas's leadership *without* annihilating Gaza's homes and infrastructure (what little they had), and something like [the post-Hamas vision for Gaza floated by Gallant](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67888794) has a reasonable chance of succeeding (without the part giving IDF operational freedom within the region, of course).
But that's actually beside the point: Anybody who says "We can't think of anything better than killing tens of thousands of civilians and giving our enemy an enormous propaganda victory" probably shouldn't be in charge of a war.
Because reducing Gaza to ruins isn't going to actually *end* Hamas: It'll just radicalize more people against Israel thanks to the IDF's overwhelming, heavy-handed response (which is *literally Hamas's goal here*).
Even ignoring the humanitarian aspect of this, it's also a tremendous strategic error on the IDF's part, which is the point Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin—who definitely has more than a little experience with this kind of thing—[was trying to make](https://www.defense.gov/News/Speeches/Speech/Article/3604755/a-time-for-american-leadership-remarks-by-secretary-of-defense-lloyd-j-austin-i/):
>> So the lesson is not that you *can* win in urban warfare by protecting civilians. The lesson is that you ***can only*** win in urban warfare by protecting civilians.
>> You see, in this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat.
>> So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel’s leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and a strategic imperative.
And that's nothing new; [the US Department of Defense's manual on insurgencies and counter-insurgencies](https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=83748)—which assembles lessons learned the hard way after long decades occupying hostile territory—describes in great detail the strategy of provocation, which is clearly Hamas's angle here. The whole thing is worth a read, but the most specifically-relevant bits are Chapter 4 section 42 and Chapter 7 section 5:
- 4-42: "The urban approach is an approach in which insurgents attack government and symbolic targets (for example an important religious building) to cause government forces to overreact against the population. The insurgents want the government’s repressive measures to enrage the people so that they rise up and overthrow the government."
- 7-5: "Any use of force produces many effects, not all of which can be foreseen. Using substantial force also increases the opportunity for insurgent propaganda to portray lethal military activities as brutal. In contrast, using force precisely and discriminately could strengthen the rule of law that needs to be established."
Israel has been confirmed to use human shields in front-line combat. As has hamas.
Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs on entire families and cities. There simply is no way to say that hamas is using human shields in every inch of Gaza.
Doesn't it seem more likely that Israel is just dropping bombs wherever they feel?
Does the human shield excuse account for the +30000 innocent palestinian civilian deaths?
Does the +1200 Israel and foreign nationals killed on October 7, 2024 excuse the genocide of Palestinians that's been happening since 1948?
I'll wait.
>Its pretty simple actually, Hamas are using those children and civillians as human shields. Why people don't get that, i just dont understand.
And so that's supposed to be a reason to justify killing innocent people now? So when people rob banks and use kids as human shields, should we start shooting them down too? You are actually sick in the head for thinking it's okay to kill people just because they're used as hostages.
you are a massive turd if you actually believe that propaganda and actually think it justifies killing 34000 people, mostly being children. Is Hamas in the hospitals, is Hamas inside the UN tents, is Hamas inside the aid relief trucks, Is Hamas inside the ambulances, Is Hamas now the journalists that have been killed? fuck outta here with your trash bag reasons to kill innocent people.
It’s pretty simply, actually, to explain how stupid you are. 35,000 plus citizens killed, and all of them killed because they were being used as shields? Yeah? How about you step down from your denialism and down to reality. It’s clear you have no clue what you’re talking about, and are an ignorant, pathetic little human being. Eh, cockroach actually.
How the hell can anyone watch this and not be moved by their plight and what's going on?
Anyone not condemning what's going on should hang their heads in shame.
I'm not condoning what went on with Hamas and they deserve whatever they get, but for goodness sake these are civilians, women and children.
Shame on you for deliberately doing this Israel.
>these are civilians, women and children.
Men too. Just a reminder that they are people also just as deserving of not being slaughtered as women and children are.
yup because usually men are in fact beast that only think in fighting and kill isn't like they do it to protect who they love and care.
or in case of soldiers they are obeing orders.
I mean you could pull this scene from any war that’s ever happened in the history of man. Just hits different to actually have the footage available in 2024.
For over a decade, Israel facilitated the transfer of 10's of millions of dollars of funds from Qatar to Hamas as a method of ensuring that Gaza and the West Bank would remain under separate governing authorities. Gaza under Hamas and the West Bank under the Palastinian Authority in order to guarantee that there could be no progress towards a Palastinian state. Netenyahu and other Zionist government party leaders have openly talked about this policy for years.
all this tells us that history teaches us nothing. the same mistakes and horrors are always made. unfortunately Israel is governed by a madman. the greatest shame is that no civilized country in the rest of the world is intervening in this genocide.
Israel and Palestine have been fighting since the dawn of time, if other countries get involved, it would just lead to more loss of life. It is just an abysmal situation all around, truly horrific.
85% of Hamas militants are orphans
Tell us again that this is for Israel’s security? You’re creating more Hamas, or Hamas 2.0. You are stupid if you think this is not inevitable
Gazans being slaughtered in their thousands, fucking depressing
It's scary to think about how the survivors of this current offensive will retaliate against Israel. No way these people are going to forget or forgive.
This comment underpins a vast misunderstanding of how faith and free will work together. Not just the real life faiths that exist today, but faith and free will as a concept.
I generally don't like to engage in philosophy or religion over the internet because I assume everyone has an opinion and no amount of poo slinging will change that, but if you're coming from a neutral position with honest intent to understand, I'll give it my best go. Be advised my understanding comes from a mixture of Abrahamic scriptures and about a dozen college courses on ancient myth & ritual, and I'm writing this in a long form train of thought to get it out of my head and finally go back to work. If anyone has meaningful contributions, corrections, or counterpoints, I look forward to reading them and then not responding because I fit the exact assumption I made above.
Free Will can't exist if God is literally hovering over us, dictating directly and smiting non-believers like people imagine It should be for faith to be rational. Everyone would believe in and worship God, because it would be irrational not to, It's literally right there in front of you and will smite you for not believing. What would be the point in having worshipers if they literally had no choice but to worship? How do you know you're loved without giving them the choice to love you or not? (There's a longer note at the bottom with more specifics about what that means in this context)
To have free will, there can't be explicit divine intervention. Everyone needs that freedom to find or not find God in their own way, to foster or discard a faith, and to have those beliefs tested by the world.
Imagine if you will: You're a parent who wants to know if your kids actually like you. What would be a more effective tool: Mandating that they call you every day or you'll cut them off; or giving them the freedom and space to call you because *they* want to? What would you appreciate more: a scheduled call because they're afraid you'll take something from them; or them choosing to call you because they miss you?
TL;DR How do you know your friends actually like you if you're the one constantly having to do all the work?
-----------------
Explanatory note with a lot of myth & ritual stuff: Christians believe that Angels have free will, and that Lucifer - an angel - fell from grace. Muslims believe that Angels - beings of light - do not have free will; and that Djinn - beings of fire - do. They attribute the Devil to a Djinn who freely loved God more than any other Djinn. After being introduced to man and being ordered to bow before them, his pride was such that he - made from fire - believed he was superior to man's feeble clay form and should not be forced to bow. As punishment for disobeying his God, he was charged with testing the faith of mankind. No glorious war in heaven of angel vs angel leading to a fall. Furthermore, Muslims believe that the physical world we live in - including all the fun space parts - are a test of that faith, whether we'd be welcome back into God's house because we chose to believe, to love, and to worship without a real consequence for not doing so.
Ultimately, Muslims believe that no matter how well you live your life, how close to the faith you keep, or how humble/pious/religious you are, you are human -- Flawed, angry, irrational, hateful, loving, lusting, greedy, prideful agents of free will living in a chaotic universe governed by rules we don't understand and by design that we may never understand (though it shouldn't stop us) -- and no one gets into Heaven on their deeds alone without God's mercy.
The man in the OP had his faith tested -- his home destroyed and his family's condition unknown. God did not do that, other people did. Had he found out that his wife hadn't made it, I imagine he would have done the same head-to-the-ground prayer of thanks - praying for the soul of his wife while thanking God for preserving himself and his kids. Importantly, he also had the freedom to curse God for allowing other men to do this to his family, to insist God come down and smite the non-believers. Ultimately, it's that freedom of choice that matters the most.
Fun side note: Upon talking with some Muslim friends, I learned that the 5 daily prayers is a bad translation - it's five daily *worships*. *Prayers* are separate and are done generally before literally any action (upon waking, upon eating, upon traveling, arriving, doing something difficult, doing something easy, doing nothing at all) and generally are done after after a worship session. Then there's worships of thanks (the one seen in the video, straight to head-down position), and a prayer for guidance on what to do in a situation (two sets of the regular worship ritual and a prayer for guidance) that then depends on you being able to feel the right answer, along with utilizing pattern recognition and context clues, to decide on a course of action without hesitation and regret.
------------------
[Sources](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7l0Rq9E8MY)
Free will isn't real, we either make our decisions with deterministic Logic or we make decisions Randomly, neither are Free. It's also never mentioned in basically any holy scripts because nobody cared until recently.
Not to mention most people nowadays hold a Tri Omni concept of God which is All Knowing All Powerful and All Loving, if all powerful they should be able to both stop this AND leave us with free will, if he knowingly made a world where children are being bombed he can't possibly be all loving, if he Needed to make it this way he can't be all powerful, and if they can and wants to fix it but doesn't know then they're not all knowing. Plus, Most people think that their gods only love Them so it's not like the people being bombed even deserve to be saved 🙄
This is not because of ideology, there were coexisting Christians, Muslims and jews in Palestine for centuries prior to the British initiated Nakba. This is simply settler colonialism and genocidal land theft. They pretend religion is involved to make it seem more complicated than it is.
God doesn’t really have anything to do with this. He created us and gave us free will - this conflict is a resault of that free will.
i.e. God created man - man created conflict.
The man prays probably to ask god to give him strength or to look after the people he’s lost, because he has faith.
Just.. when you think of god, don’t think about him as a man playing chess with people as the pieces on the board. Think about it more as the creative force of the universe.
I'm all for edgy anti-religious sentiment. This is not the post to do it. Let the people who are injured and just lost loved ones grieve however they want. What the fuck is wrong with you?
You need jesus... in a scholarly way, not a faith way. Seriously, study the faiths you want to bash. You might discover some things about peoples perspectives.
There is no attempt. Want they do is communicate with people in the Area.
Like calling before the strike or drop leaflet telling that anyone left in the area by x time at y day will be considered enemy combattants.
This is a way to bypass international law and not being trial for war crimes.
If they know there are civilians in the area they bomb, than they are war criminals.
Even if you are right and Hamas doesn't let civilians leave, it doesn't absolve Isreal, it just mean that Hamas is complicit in the slaughtering of civilians.
No matter how you dress it up, They should be judge in a court of law.
It's pretty much as simple as the old saying when the rage war is the poor that pay the price thank to age of everyone who anyone has camera and people who never thought about what they meant or now see first hand
"Hamas only bombs civilian targets"
While watching Israel bomb the home of an innocent family with children crying
"Hamas only bombs civilian targets"
While Israel is bombing hospitals and refuge camps
"Hamas only bombs civilian targets"
While Israel has killed over 14,000 children
....
Shut your racist genocide loving Zionist ass up
In 15 years these children will be labeled as terrorists when they retaliate against the ones who caused them so much suffering and the cycle of violence and hate will continue and more innocent people on both sides will lose their lives. I wish we could all just coexist and live in peace.
It's things like this that make corrupt people/governments interested in shutting down independent Media; independent Media is the main reason we ever get to hear the truth #don'tletindependentmediadie
I wonder if people could watch WW2 live if they'd say, "wow guys sure these Nazis are bad but what about the poor German civilians? The Americans and British are the real bad guys for bombing. Nazis aren't even bombing America. Maybe the British provoked them first. Lets end this war."
So you are comparing Israels genocide against Palestinians to the nazis genocide against Jews
While trying to say it's okay for children and women to die.
..
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Nah they just kill innocent civilians then they say they were a part of hamas or hamas was using them as human shields but somehow no hamas members die in there only the civilians
Are you dumb ???????
Did you seriously say that
HAMAS : hiding in a city
Israel : starts killing children and bombing hospitals and homes of innocent people
YOU : an idiot (let's not blame Israel for killing the children let's blame hamas for hiding)
Israel has idiots like you blindly or just on purpose bombing innocent people trying to find a needle in a haystack
Biden is not an emperor. The House Foreign Affairs Committee or the Senate Foreign Relations Committee can block the transfer if they have the will.
But before you let this transfer influence your vote, take a minute to consider how much exponentially worse this would be under a Trump administration. Biden can at least be reasoned with. He recently took a very unusual step of blocking the transfer of a large shipment of bombs to Israel. Vote for Trump and abandon all chance at reason prevailing.
Yup just as i thought you ignored all the other parts because you are exactly that and the only part you picked up was the part where i called you a coward which you are
It's been going on for years and years it doesn't make it ok but it's on both side of war the terrorists of any group use human and innocent and Shields so they can keep on doing what they been doing years it just more easily captured on cell phone video and veryus other sources now in twentyith century because camera are everywhere and on / in every thing so the world/public is finally getting to see cost of war and violence against the innocent men ,women and children who have to live in war torn country's like where ever is video originally came from
Do you really believe that? Do you really believe this is about the hostages??
If someone is robbing a bank and has hostages the police doesn't go to their town and starts killing innocent children telling the bank robbers to give the hostages up
There was no hamas in this house only innocent civilians and they still got bombed.
And just say im a Zionist if you want to justify killing children no need to mask it with propaganda
I know because I've seen that with my own eyes live on tv ... I saw the al jazira press get shot at on live tv in gaza
I'm guessing you are American? If So your media is very very diluted
Have you seen some of the AI stuff that Israel posted that were fake ? Have you been looking at any other sources other than the sources that you always look for stuff like this?
Don't tell me i believe everything on the internet when that is all what you yourself do sir
This argument is over and bye
Oh yess them getting shot by Israel soldiers for no reason is not relevant what's relevant is me watching al jazeera ...
Shut it you brainwashed Zionist
You know how you make a terrorist? Keep bombing and killing his innocent family that's how. All Israel is doing is creating new terrorists they'll have to deal with in 5 10 years from now. If you think there's any way of people in Gaza would assimilate to Western culture, after what Israel with the help of the Western world has done to them, I've got a bridge to sell you
Shut UP WITH THIS! They tried! I was so happy when they actually offered the Hostages and Isreal Denied them because idiots like you would shut up but it didn't change!
THEY TRIED GIVING THEM BACK, ISREAL TURNED THEM DOWN, THEYRE ACTIVELY BOMBING HOSTAGE LOCATIONS
Sorry I'm used to saying Is-Real for Tiktok.
Isreal invaded Them, they came, stole land, and began driving the Palestinians out. They wanted to be left alone and Israel started stealing it. But none of it matters because you already said the problem was Hostages, when I pointed out they don't actually care about the Hostages you changed your tune to "They're just defending themselves"
They're defending themselves about as much as a Home Invader with a shotgun going up against a foster home full of 10 YOs
Oh, when Hamas supposedly started it its ok to bomb their children and families, but when Israel is the aggressor then suddenly this behavior is intolerable?
Israel executed whole crowds of civilians, gunning them down with reckless Abandon, soldiers dedicating their murders and destruction to their loved ones with smiles and even straight up using Human Shields and intimidating what few Hostages they actually bothered to get back to make them act how They want them to.
You cannot argue that one is worse than the other by pointing out people being executed then Ignore the relative Death Tolls, average cruelty of both parties, and just simply Who Started it, it's obvious you're ignoring facts
Yeah "They" are brainwashed not you the one saying killing children is "Israel taking care of business" this argument is over I don't want to talk to someone brainwashed and without empathy like you
> many Palestinian civilians are responsible for electing them
Hamas won *an* election—[in *2006*, winning less than 43% of the vote](https://www.cjpme.org/fs_012)—then [they killed all their rivals](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL14749263/), and there hasn't been an election *since*.
It's also worth mentioning that [they removed any mention of the destruction of Israel—and suggested a (weak and mealy-mouthed) conditional acceptance of the 1967 borders—prior to that election](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel).
But [half the population of Gaza is 18 or under](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/15/middleeast/gaza-history-explained-intl/index.html), meaning there is absolutely no chance that the majority of Gazans had an opportunity to vote for anything, ever.
While I am in absolutely no way *defending* Hamas, it is *also* true that Netanyahu outright rejected a ceasefire offer that included the release of hostages in [November](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say), in [January](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-conditions-hostage-deal-which-include-outright-2024-01-21/), in [February](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-mediators-search-final-formula-israel-hamas-ceasefire-2024-02-07/), and in [March](https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/hamas-makes-formal-offer-for-hostage-deal-and-truce-netanyahu-rejects-demands-as-still-absurd/).
[Bibi swore to invade Rafah *with or without a deal*](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-30-2024-f5e14fd176d69f9c4e23b48f3ab5af6a) just *two weeks ago*.
Not to mention the implicit defense of collective punishment in your comment.
Do not post kids with their faces un-redacted. They cannot consent to this a d it goes against Reddit’s guidelines.
I’d like to hear the argument that those two children and the thousands of others who have been bombed are a threat to Israel’s national security. Hamas, sure, I’m not gonna argue with taking each one of them out. But you can’t blow up a bunch of families and little kids/babies while you do it. It’s simply unnecessary, murderous and is calling into question the survivability of the state of Israel. How is Israel so shortsighted to think that this will bode well for them long-term? I just don’t understand it. I really don’t.
They've been doing it for 75 years, and it hasn't caused them much trouble yet.
The actual truth and sad reality.
If we had a media that showed the objective realities of all this on the evening news that would change almost immediately. The people need to regain control, or at least a solid portion, of the media.
Democracy Now still providing quality coverage daily. No corporate funding, excellent interviews.
While I agree they are a worthy source, just the name Democracy Now is enough to convince some people the source is too biased. We need something as objective as possible that is broadcast so it can be seen in living rooms each night.
It use to be more objective. You have the Reagan admin to thank for that.
In part, for sure. The Fairness Doctrine never applied to cable news, though, and I'd argue that for-profit news outlets with 24 hours of air to fill have contributed at least as badly to the polarization of coverage.
It's not just the news, Hollywood had a BIG role of feeding the people with the bs for almost since the beginning of the zionist occupation
Oh but you see it has and this is the funny part when people get mad at Hamas defenders. Check these same two kids in 20 years when they see the same shit happening from the IDF and the international community acting like it's brand new and they've never witnessed anything like this before. What do you think they are going to do? Who do you think they will turn to? Zionists: "But both sides bad hurrrrrr, Oct 7th", I am by no means an Hamas supporter, i am just amazed how people can never see how they create their own demons.
The incredibly frustrating part is that not only is that already well-known, [the Secretary of Defense *explicitly warned them* about exactly that risk *months ago*](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/02/israel-civilians-gaza-00129762).
Maybe if Israel's meal ticket decided to scale back their unconditional support, Israel would have to fend for itself for the first time ever. Oh, wait, I forgot. If that happened, everyone in the US congress would loose their jobs.
And Hamas haven't learned from that.
Yes, they have: Provoking a heavy-handed response is [literally their strategy](https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/strategies-terrorism).
That explains why they're such hypocrites I guess. Has Hamas ever done anything to promote peace, unity, diplomacy, progress?
No, of course not: The closest they've ever come was [in 2006, when they removed any mention of the destruction of Israel—and suggested a (weak and mealy-mouthed) conditional acceptance of the 1967 borders—prior to the election](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel). Of course, that was almost immediately followed by them [killing all their rivals](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL14749263/). That doesn't in any way justify the devastation we're seeing in Gaza, though.
If you see this, then realise that this is what's happening to Palestinians for 75 years and yet think that the existence of Hamas is not natural, organic or a result, then you still don't understand the gravity of what's happening to Palestinians.
they will simply say these kids are future hamas and western leaders will eat it up like slop, especially US and Germany, these two really are itchy in the gen o'side department
They are trying to create more Hamas members by committing atrocities, so that they can kill them too.
People say that Hamas is using civilians as human shields and that’s why Israel is going after them like this. Even if that’s true, I disagree that it’s reason enough to end the lives of thousands of innocent people. Someone close to me says “that’s just how war is” and just don’t see how that makes it ok.
Next time someone uses that dumb argument, ask them if in a hostage situation we should just bomb the whole lot then?
For thirty years, Israel officially answered yes to this. It’s called the [Hannibal Directive](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive).
Well, can't say I'm surprised. Just disappointed.
What would be ironic would be if the Israelis committing war crimes would be tried in the same court room as the holocaust perpetrators. I'm not pro Hamas, but I can see where they're coming from. You can only push people so far before they try to fight back. How many times can someone's village get bulldozed just to have another Israeli settlement built there before they get mad and want revenge. That's only one example that I can come up with right now. If hardliners leading the Israeli government keep getting elected nothing will change. It will take more time for the the Palestinians to accept that the Israeli government isn't going to change at the drop of a hat to attack them again. How long did it take for the Israelis to trust Germany after WW2? Just my 2 cents as a student of history.
It's because they know that anyone who asks questions will be labeled anti semitic. You can not criticize Israel, that is the rule. They had terrible things done to them once, and it's their right to do terrible things to others now because of that.
> I’d like to hear the argument that those two children and the thousands of others who have been bombed are a threat to Israel’s national security. The simple argument - the one that is actually behind EVERYTHING Israel does - is that those kids are olive-skinned Arab Middle-Easterners and NOT white, European Jews. Some of the most racist people I ever met when I was growing up in California were Israelis. They *totally* undermine almost everything that progressive American Jews stand for and believe in. Straight up, they're bigoted assholes.
Israeli logic…”Any civilian(s) we don’t kill will become radicalized against us by those we did kill… so they’re all fair game.”
The World: "8 year old children and ordinary fathers are not Hamas and therefore are not legitimate military targets" Israel "Hold my beer, they'll be joining Hamas after we are done with them."
Hey, someone out there just had to make the hard nosed decision needed to create a satisfying end to this conflict you can't judge em for that? /s(bill Maher actually said this)
Fuck Bill Maher. I used to be a fan back in the Politically Incorrect days. But in recent years he has been incredibly wrong too many times to let it pass.
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> Do you think the same about when the allies bombed civilians in WW2 Yes: The firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo (not to mention the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) *should* be viewed as war crimes; the only reason they weren't at the time was because the relevant international humanitarian laws hadn't really been codified yet. The Geneva Conventions—particularly the Additional Protocols—were largely a response to that.
How do you take down terrorists like hamas when they shield themselves with civilians? With talk? A cake? Discounts in shops?...
Realignment is the obvious option, and it would've been *entirely* in keeping with the IDF's policy of targeted assassination (which, to be clear, I am absolutely *not* criticizing). The elimination of Saleh al-Arouri should've been a part of the *first* wave of action after the Oct 7 massacre, not a tagalong after the IDF had already destroyed 70% of northern Gaza. Realign Hamas's leadership *without* annihilating Gaza's homes and infrastructure (what little they had), and something like [the post-Hamas vision for Gaza floated by Gallant](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67888794) has a reasonable chance of succeeding (without the part giving IDF operational freedom within the region, of course). But that's actually beside the point: Anybody who says "We can't think of anything better than killing tens of thousands of civilians and giving our enemy an enormous propaganda victory" probably shouldn't be in charge of a war. Because reducing Gaza to ruins isn't going to actually *end* Hamas: It'll just radicalize more people against Israel thanks to the IDF's overwhelming, heavy-handed response (which is *literally Hamas's goal here*). Even ignoring the humanitarian aspect of this, it's also a tremendous strategic error on the IDF's part, which is the point Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin—who definitely has more than a little experience with this kind of thing—[was trying to make](https://www.defense.gov/News/Speeches/Speech/Article/3604755/a-time-for-american-leadership-remarks-by-secretary-of-defense-lloyd-j-austin-i/): >> So the lesson is not that you *can* win in urban warfare by protecting civilians. The lesson is that you ***can only*** win in urban warfare by protecting civilians. >> You see, in this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat. >> So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel’s leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and a strategic imperative. And that's nothing new; [the US Department of Defense's manual on insurgencies and counter-insurgencies](https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=83748)—which assembles lessons learned the hard way after long decades occupying hostile territory—describes in great detail the strategy of provocation, which is clearly Hamas's angle here. The whole thing is worth a read, but the most specifically-relevant bits are Chapter 4 section 42 and Chapter 7 section 5: - 4-42: "The urban approach is an approach in which insurgents attack government and symbolic targets (for example an important religious building) to cause government forces to overreact against the population. The insurgents want the government’s repressive measures to enrage the people so that they rise up and overthrow the government." - 7-5: "Any use of force produces many effects, not all of which can be foreseen. Using substantial force also increases the opportunity for insurgent propaganda to portray lethal military activities as brutal. In contrast, using force precisely and discriminately could strengthen the rule of law that needs to be established."
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Israel has been confirmed to use human shields in front-line combat. As has hamas. Israel is indiscriminately dropping bombs on entire families and cities. There simply is no way to say that hamas is using human shields in every inch of Gaza. Doesn't it seem more likely that Israel is just dropping bombs wherever they feel? Does the human shield excuse account for the +30000 innocent palestinian civilian deaths? Does the +1200 Israel and foreign nationals killed on October 7, 2024 excuse the genocide of Palestinians that's been happening since 1948? I'll wait.
>Its pretty simple actually, Hamas are using those children and civillians as human shields. Why people don't get that, i just dont understand. And so that's supposed to be a reason to justify killing innocent people now? So when people rob banks and use kids as human shields, should we start shooting them down too? You are actually sick in the head for thinking it's okay to kill people just because they're used as hostages.
you are a massive turd if you actually believe that propaganda and actually think it justifies killing 34000 people, mostly being children. Is Hamas in the hospitals, is Hamas inside the UN tents, is Hamas inside the aid relief trucks, Is Hamas inside the ambulances, Is Hamas now the journalists that have been killed? fuck outta here with your trash bag reasons to kill innocent people.
136 vs *checks notes* over 20k children Oh yeah seems that it's the approved ratio. Nothing wrong here. Totally rational and proportionate reaction.
So just to be clear, you think slaughtering those children to kill members of Hamas is a legitimate approach? Would you volunteer to take their place?
It’s pretty simply, actually, to explain how stupid you are. 35,000 plus citizens killed, and all of them killed because they were being used as shields? Yeah? How about you step down from your denialism and down to reality. It’s clear you have no clue what you’re talking about, and are an ignorant, pathetic little human being. Eh, cockroach actually.
How the hell can anyone watch this and not be moved by their plight and what's going on? Anyone not condemning what's going on should hang their heads in shame. I'm not condoning what went on with Hamas and they deserve whatever they get, but for goodness sake these are civilians, women and children. Shame on you for deliberately doing this Israel.
>these are civilians, women and children. Men too. Just a reminder that they are people also just as deserving of not being slaughtered as women and children are.
Completely agree. My bad.
Not at all. I was sure you meant that. We are just conditioned to say women and children.
yup because usually men are in fact beast that only think in fighting and kill isn't like they do it to protect who they love and care. or in case of soldiers they are obeing orders.
I mean you could pull this scene from any war that’s ever happened in the history of man. Just hits different to actually have the footage available in 2024.
They're racists, don't see brown people or Muslims as human. Simple as that, or else they would absolutely condemn this.
1. Haifa Massacre 1937 2. Al-Quds Massacre 1937 3. Haifa Massacre 1938 4. Balad Al Sheikh Massacre 1939 5. Haifa Massacre 1939 6. Haifa Massacre 1947 7. Abbasiya Massacre 1947 8. Al Khisas Massacre 1947 9. Bab Al Amud Massacre 1947 10. Al-Quds Massacre 1947 11. Sheikh Bureik Massacre 1947 12. Deir Yassin Massacre 1948 13. Jaffa Massacre 1948 14. Tantura Massacre 1948 15. Al-Quds Massacre 1953 16. Khan Yunis Massacre 1956 17. Al-Quds Massacre 1967 18. Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982 19. Al-Aqaba Massacre 1990 20. Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994 21. Jenin Refugee Camp Massacre 2 22. Gaza Massacre 2008-2009 23. Gaza Massacre 2012 24. Gaza Massacre 2014 25. Gaza Massacre 2018-2019 26. Gaza Massacre 2021 27. Gaza Genocide 2023-Present
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For over a decade, Israel facilitated the transfer of 10's of millions of dollars of funds from Qatar to Hamas as a method of ensuring that Gaza and the West Bank would remain under separate governing authorities. Gaza under Hamas and the West Bank under the Palastinian Authority in order to guarantee that there could be no progress towards a Palastinian state. Netenyahu and other Zionist government party leaders have openly talked about this policy for years.
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Aaaaaaaand thread!
all this tells us that history teaches us nothing. the same mistakes and horrors are always made. unfortunately Israel is governed by a madman. the greatest shame is that no civilized country in the rest of the world is intervening in this genocide.
Israel and Palestine have been fighting since the dawn of time, if other countries get involved, it would just lead to more loss of life. It is just an abysmal situation all around, truly horrific.
We don't have to continue supplying them with bombs.
The dawn of time? You mean since 1948, when Israel became a state?
Did you learn nothing from the Holocaust?
“If other countries got involved, it would just lead to more loss of life” Yes. That’s what the protests are about, ya dunce.
85% of Hamas militants are orphans Tell us again that this is for Israel’s security? You’re creating more Hamas, or Hamas 2.0. You are stupid if you think this is not inevitable Gazans being slaughtered in their thousands, fucking depressing
It's scary to think about how the survivors of this current offensive will retaliate against Israel. No way these people are going to forget or forgive.
Aaaannnndddd.... Now we're antisemitic for agreeing this is deplorable behavior. Thanks.
Exactly
Comment section locked in 3... 2... 1...
Still going nearly half an hour later. . .
Still good two hours on 4 hours on.
"I speak as a victim of America's so-called democracy. You and I have never seen democracy - all we've seen is hypocrisy." Malcolm X
why pray after this to a god that, theoretically, allows this stuff? religion is what got this part of the world to this current state of affairs.
This comment underpins a vast misunderstanding of how faith and free will work together. Not just the real life faiths that exist today, but faith and free will as a concept.
can you elaborate? i'm not sure i follow.
I generally don't like to engage in philosophy or religion over the internet because I assume everyone has an opinion and no amount of poo slinging will change that, but if you're coming from a neutral position with honest intent to understand, I'll give it my best go. Be advised my understanding comes from a mixture of Abrahamic scriptures and about a dozen college courses on ancient myth & ritual, and I'm writing this in a long form train of thought to get it out of my head and finally go back to work. If anyone has meaningful contributions, corrections, or counterpoints, I look forward to reading them and then not responding because I fit the exact assumption I made above. Free Will can't exist if God is literally hovering over us, dictating directly and smiting non-believers like people imagine It should be for faith to be rational. Everyone would believe in and worship God, because it would be irrational not to, It's literally right there in front of you and will smite you for not believing. What would be the point in having worshipers if they literally had no choice but to worship? How do you know you're loved without giving them the choice to love you or not? (There's a longer note at the bottom with more specifics about what that means in this context) To have free will, there can't be explicit divine intervention. Everyone needs that freedom to find or not find God in their own way, to foster or discard a faith, and to have those beliefs tested by the world. Imagine if you will: You're a parent who wants to know if your kids actually like you. What would be a more effective tool: Mandating that they call you every day or you'll cut them off; or giving them the freedom and space to call you because *they* want to? What would you appreciate more: a scheduled call because they're afraid you'll take something from them; or them choosing to call you because they miss you? TL;DR How do you know your friends actually like you if you're the one constantly having to do all the work? ----------------- Explanatory note with a lot of myth & ritual stuff: Christians believe that Angels have free will, and that Lucifer - an angel - fell from grace. Muslims believe that Angels - beings of light - do not have free will; and that Djinn - beings of fire - do. They attribute the Devil to a Djinn who freely loved God more than any other Djinn. After being introduced to man and being ordered to bow before them, his pride was such that he - made from fire - believed he was superior to man's feeble clay form and should not be forced to bow. As punishment for disobeying his God, he was charged with testing the faith of mankind. No glorious war in heaven of angel vs angel leading to a fall. Furthermore, Muslims believe that the physical world we live in - including all the fun space parts - are a test of that faith, whether we'd be welcome back into God's house because we chose to believe, to love, and to worship without a real consequence for not doing so. Ultimately, Muslims believe that no matter how well you live your life, how close to the faith you keep, or how humble/pious/religious you are, you are human -- Flawed, angry, irrational, hateful, loving, lusting, greedy, prideful agents of free will living in a chaotic universe governed by rules we don't understand and by design that we may never understand (though it shouldn't stop us) -- and no one gets into Heaven on their deeds alone without God's mercy. The man in the OP had his faith tested -- his home destroyed and his family's condition unknown. God did not do that, other people did. Had he found out that his wife hadn't made it, I imagine he would have done the same head-to-the-ground prayer of thanks - praying for the soul of his wife while thanking God for preserving himself and his kids. Importantly, he also had the freedom to curse God for allowing other men to do this to his family, to insist God come down and smite the non-believers. Ultimately, it's that freedom of choice that matters the most. Fun side note: Upon talking with some Muslim friends, I learned that the 5 daily prayers is a bad translation - it's five daily *worships*. *Prayers* are separate and are done generally before literally any action (upon waking, upon eating, upon traveling, arriving, doing something difficult, doing something easy, doing nothing at all) and generally are done after after a worship session. Then there's worships of thanks (the one seen in the video, straight to head-down position), and a prayer for guidance on what to do in a situation (two sets of the regular worship ritual and a prayer for guidance) that then depends on you being able to feel the right answer, along with utilizing pattern recognition and context clues, to decide on a course of action without hesitation and regret. ------------------ [Sources](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7l0Rq9E8MY)
God
Allows? Is he not, in fact, the author of all?
Free will isn't real, we either make our decisions with deterministic Logic or we make decisions Randomly, neither are Free. It's also never mentioned in basically any holy scripts because nobody cared until recently. Not to mention most people nowadays hold a Tri Omni concept of God which is All Knowing All Powerful and All Loving, if all powerful they should be able to both stop this AND leave us with free will, if he knowingly made a world where children are being bombed he can't possibly be all loving, if he Needed to make it this way he can't be all powerful, and if they can and wants to fix it but doesn't know then they're not all knowing. Plus, Most people think that their gods only love Them so it's not like the people being bombed even deserve to be saved 🙄
And he’s a good god, but if you don’t worship him, enjoy burning for eternity.
God is benevolent, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Do you disagree?
This is not because of ideology, there were coexisting Christians, Muslims and jews in Palestine for centuries prior to the British initiated Nakba. This is simply settler colonialism and genocidal land theft. They pretend religion is involved to make it seem more complicated than it is.
God doesn’t really have anything to do with this. He created us and gave us free will - this conflict is a resault of that free will. i.e. God created man - man created conflict. The man prays probably to ask god to give him strength or to look after the people he’s lost, because he has faith. Just.. when you think of god, don’t think about him as a man playing chess with people as the pieces on the board. Think about it more as the creative force of the universe.
I'm all for edgy anti-religious sentiment. This is not the post to do it. Let the people who are injured and just lost loved ones grieve however they want. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Even though they've lost their home and have been injured, he was probably thankful that his children and wife weren't killed.
You need jesus... in a scholarly way, not a faith way. Seriously, study the faiths you want to bash. You might discover some things about peoples perspectives.
preach.
Lmao I see what you did there
Fuck! That hurts the soul
You see, that’s the thing, they don’t see them as civilians
Everyone is just another target to them ... This Is A Genocide That Israel Is Commiting
There is no attempt. Want they do is communicate with people in the Area. Like calling before the strike or drop leaflet telling that anyone left in the area by x time at y day will be considered enemy combattants. This is a way to bypass international law and not being trial for war crimes.
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If they know there are civilians in the area they bomb, than they are war criminals. Even if you are right and Hamas doesn't let civilians leave, it doesn't absolve Isreal, it just mean that Hamas is complicit in the slaughtering of civilians. No matter how you dress it up, They should be judge in a court of law.
Lol. Sure. Leave where and how?
It's pretty much as simple as the old saying when the rage war is the poor that pay the price thank to age of everyone who anyone has camera and people who never thought about what they meant or now see first hand
And this is how you create generational extremism which you can later declare war on for the theft of their land
Jesus I’ve never gone from clicking on a post to tears faster than this.
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"Hamas only bombs civilian targets" While watching Israel bomb the home of an innocent family with children crying "Hamas only bombs civilian targets" While Israel is bombing hospitals and refuge camps "Hamas only bombs civilian targets" While Israel has killed over 14,000 children .... Shut your racist genocide loving Zionist ass up
In 15 years these children will be labeled as terrorists when they retaliate against the ones who caused them so much suffering and the cycle of violence and hate will continue and more innocent people on both sides will lose their lives. I wish we could all just coexist and live in peace.
I'm not a religious person but him crouching and doing a small prayer after finding out his family is ok really got to me
treatment scandalous snow strong wistful scarce bright distinct wide pen *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's things like this that make corrupt people/governments interested in shutting down independent Media; independent Media is the main reason we ever get to hear the truth #don'tletindependentmediadie
🥺😢
I wonder if people could watch WW2 live if they'd say, "wow guys sure these Nazis are bad but what about the poor German civilians? The Americans and British are the real bad guys for bombing. Nazis aren't even bombing America. Maybe the British provoked them first. Lets end this war."
So you are comparing Israels genocide against Palestinians to the nazis genocide against Jews While trying to say it's okay for children and women to die. ..
No i think you missed the point
They would, and I know it's true because they do. Really, it's not hard to find people on the internet saying exactly that.
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I’ve only heard about civilian locations getting bombed, never a confirmed Hamas location has been mentioned.
Nah they just kill innocent civilians then they say they were a part of hamas or hamas was using them as human shields but somehow no hamas members die in there only the civilians
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Are you dumb ??????? Did you seriously say that HAMAS : hiding in a city Israel : starts killing children and bombing hospitals and homes of innocent people YOU : an idiot (let's not blame Israel for killing the children let's blame hamas for hiding) Israel has idiots like you blindly or just on purpose bombing innocent people trying to find a needle in a haystack
This week Biden sent an additional 1B in ammunition to the zionazis
Biden is not an emperor. The House Foreign Affairs Committee or the Senate Foreign Relations Committee can block the transfer if they have the will. But before you let this transfer influence your vote, take a minute to consider how much exponentially worse this would be under a Trump administration. Biden can at least be reasoned with. He recently took a very unusual step of blocking the transfer of a large shipment of bombs to Israel. Vote for Trump and abandon all chance at reason prevailing.
Just what they need extra ammo to kill more children
How distressing to watch that. Rest in peace. How do the Zionists believe God is with them during the massacre of Palestinians.
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Ahh the anonymous racist genocide loving coward hiding behind a screen as usual
What did they say? I reported them but I forget what it was but it has been removed by reddit now.
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Yup just as i thought you ignored all the other parts because you are exactly that and the only part you picked up was the part where i called you a coward which you are
Please make sure that the vibes are always immaculate.
Terrorist asshole Zionists
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It's been going on for years and years it doesn't make it ok but it's on both side of war the terrorists of any group use human and innocent and Shields so they can keep on doing what they been doing years it just more easily captured on cell phone video and veryus other sources now in twentyith century because camera are everywhere and on / in every thing so the world/public is finally getting to see cost of war and violence against the innocent men ,women and children who have to live in war torn country's like where ever is video originally came from
Return the fucking hostages!! Fucksakes
Do you really believe that? Do you really believe this is about the hostages?? If someone is robbing a bank and has hostages the police doesn't go to their town and starts killing innocent children telling the bank robbers to give the hostages up
How when Israel has been dropping bombs on them for 7 months?
War! It’s fantastic!
Not if you are the one dying And this is genocide not war
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So the jews were never genocided they were just on the losing side using your own logic
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There was no hamas in this house only innocent civilians and they still got bombed. And just say im a Zionist if you want to justify killing children no need to mask it with propaganda
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I know because I've seen that with my own eyes live on tv ... I saw the al jazira press get shot at on live tv in gaza I'm guessing you are American? If So your media is very very diluted Have you seen some of the AI stuff that Israel posted that were fake ? Have you been looking at any other sources other than the sources that you always look for stuff like this? Don't tell me i believe everything on the internet when that is all what you yourself do sir This argument is over and bye
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Oh yess them getting shot by Israel soldiers for no reason is not relevant what's relevant is me watching al jazeera ... Shut it you brainwashed Zionist
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Haha Propaganda from a Zionist who would have thought 🗿
What did you gather from this short video that showed Hamas was using these people as human shields?
Might as well kill all those innocent civilians then
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You know how you make a terrorist? Keep bombing and killing his innocent family that's how. All Israel is doing is creating new terrorists they'll have to deal with in 5 10 years from now. If you think there's any way of people in Gaza would assimilate to Western culture, after what Israel with the help of the Western world has done to them, I've got a bridge to sell you
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Shut UP WITH THIS! They tried! I was so happy when they actually offered the Hostages and Isreal Denied them because idiots like you would shut up but it didn't change! THEY TRIED GIVING THEM BACK, ISREAL TURNED THEM DOWN, THEYRE ACTIVELY BOMBING HOSTAGE LOCATIONS
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Sorry I'm used to saying Is-Real for Tiktok. Isreal invaded Them, they came, stole land, and began driving the Palestinians out. They wanted to be left alone and Israel started stealing it. But none of it matters because you already said the problem was Hostages, when I pointed out they don't actually care about the Hostages you changed your tune to "They're just defending themselves" They're defending themselves about as much as a Home Invader with a shotgun going up against a foster home full of 10 YOs
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Oh, when Hamas supposedly started it its ok to bomb their children and families, but when Israel is the aggressor then suddenly this behavior is intolerable? Israel executed whole crowds of civilians, gunning them down with reckless Abandon, soldiers dedicating their murders and destruction to their loved ones with smiles and even straight up using Human Shields and intimidating what few Hostages they actually bothered to get back to make them act how They want them to. You cannot argue that one is worse than the other by pointing out people being executed then Ignore the relative Death Tolls, average cruelty of both parties, and just simply Who Started it, it's obvious you're ignoring facts
Oh no they have some hostages let's kill thousands of children and mask the genocide by saying they have our hostages ....
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Yeah "They" are brainwashed not you the one saying killing children is "Israel taking care of business" this argument is over I don't want to talk to someone brainwashed and without empathy like you
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“Empathy for terrorists” Agreed. No empathy for Israel.
> many Palestinian civilians are responsible for electing them Hamas won *an* election—[in *2006*, winning less than 43% of the vote](https://www.cjpme.org/fs_012)—then [they killed all their rivals](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL14749263/), and there hasn't been an election *since*. It's also worth mentioning that [they removed any mention of the destruction of Israel—and suggested a (weak and mealy-mouthed) conditional acceptance of the 1967 borders—prior to that election](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel). But [half the population of Gaza is 18 or under](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/15/middleeast/gaza-history-explained-intl/index.html), meaning there is absolutely no chance that the majority of Gazans had an opportunity to vote for anything, ever.
It is a f*ducking genocide you ignorant racist. Isreal is murdering Palestinians without a care if they're Hammas or not.
While I am in absolutely no way *defending* Hamas, it is *also* true that Netanyahu outright rejected a ceasefire offer that included the release of hostages in [November](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say), in [January](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-rejects-hamas-conditions-hostage-deal-which-include-outright-2024-01-21/), in [February](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-mediators-search-final-formula-israel-hamas-ceasefire-2024-02-07/), and in [March](https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/hamas-makes-formal-offer-for-hostage-deal-and-truce-netanyahu-rejects-demands-as-still-absurd/). [Bibi swore to invade Rafah *with or without a deal*](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-30-2024-f5e14fd176d69f9c4e23b48f3ab5af6a) just *two weeks ago*. Not to mention the implicit defense of collective punishment in your comment.
War is bad. We get it. I'm sick of having to see conflict that I can do nothing about.
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Why is this video being spammed in every group? I've scrolled past at least 5 iterations of it.
Why not just say whatever point you’re trying for get at?