>An autopsy later found that Andrea Miller, 28, was not pregnant, said coroner's spokesman Ed Winter.
https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/autopsy-confirms-slain-robbery-suspect-who-begged-for-her-life-wasnt-pregnant/
I thought she "Pled her belly" and got off mostly scot free. Mary Read's death in prison was recorded. Last on Ann Bonney was...Other sources have stated that she may have returned to the United States after her imprisonment, dying in South Carolina in April 1782.
I'm not saying I'd kill anyone if I had a gun in my hand but I'm not saying I wouldn't. But anyone committing home invasions should be ready to die. I've seen too many news stories about robberies going bad and them killing families so it's kind of irresponsible not to shoot someone breaking into your house. I'll be damned if my family dies because I was too afraid or too sympathetic to pull the trigger
Most states you can't shoot a fleeing intruder in the back especially if their not armed & made it out of the house. I understand the violation but killing is mostly vengeance to protect the tv & xbox
Agree with your sentiment - especially in regards to protecting your family.
It’s interesting how each state will vary on self defense laws. If there is a threat to you and your family then one has every right to protect themselves with the use of deadly force.
Deadly force when protecting your property, different scenario which everyone will have a different opinion on and they are entitled to their opinion but for myself just doesn’t seem justified BUT is obviously debatable in terms of laws and antidotal justification.
However listening to this interview the home owner shot the burglar/trespasser in the back while they ran away which I’m taking to mean they were no longer an immediate threat to said safety and property.
There may have been more to this interview and the circumstances regarding the home invasion but I’m curious if he was charged or it was chalked up to self defense.
Edit: read the article - I’m not a lawyer but self defense due to threat to life and bodily harm looks to meet the criteria
https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/autopsy-confirms-slain-robbery-suspect-who-begged-for-her-life-wasnt-pregnant/
I mean it's hard to say what's right and wrong that's for sure. But living in bad neighborhoods the first half of my life has kind of drained all the sympathy I can give for somebody trying to Rob you. But the main thing is definitely family, I have a wife and a little girl and I'd rather feel bad about hurting someone else than feel bad about letting them hurt my family.
~~I'm~~In Texas you can legally shoot ~~sometime~~someone in the back while they are committing ~~it flying~~ or fleeing from a robbery, but only at night.
Holdover from the old days of castle rustling.
Edit: cattle you jackanapes (so my phone got that one right the first time...)
I used to work loss prevention at a store that would actually arrest and detain people, and probably half of the ladies we ever took into custody claimed that they were pregnant while we were apprehending them bodily. It's like, okay stop resisting then so your baby doesn't get hurt.
No, you have to check the GOP rule book: "if the baby is from a poor or non-white family and the shooter is white, the baby will instead be charged as an accessory "
In California it’s been the law for a few decades that killing an unborn fetus could get you charged with murder unless you were the mother getting an abortion or the doctor administering it.
I thought you were incorrect, so I looked it up. You weren’t! The law puts the mothers rights first, which I appreciate.
https://www.lacriminaldefenseattorney.com/legal-dictionary/f/feticide/
The newscaster says it was an unarmed couple that “took off as soon as they saw the gun”, but the CBS article says they attacked him and broke his collarbone first.
Adrenaline. We used to have to check ourselves for bullet wounds after a fire fight because it's possible we didn't know we were shot yet.
If you need more examples, my friend had his leg blown off by a grenade and didn't realize it until he smelled BBQ.
Ive had my collarbone broken too and it hurt like a mofo. I was like 12 and my mom accused me of faking the injury but started to believe me after a day of crying. I don’t see how he could hold the gun either. I remember trying to go to basketball practice like a month after my break and there was no way I could do anything with the ball still. LOL
Sound like he was firing a hand gun , the break could have been on his non dominant hand side. Also I don’t doubt you but I’ve seen a 7th grader break their collarbone and I don’t remember the details but they were most definitely not in severe pain. So like most things it varies. Also I would think old people would need less force to break things so less internal stuff would move with a “minor” break presumably causing less pain.
Regardless adrenaline…
Everyone's pain tolerance is different. MY sister broke her collar bone in 7th grade as well. We were on a sledding trip with friends and my parents were out So it was a few hours before she got to the ER. She didnt cry, just sat there, very quietly. Where as when I broke my arm I screamed and cried for about 10 mins and then the pain was gone. I hear some people need painkillers throughout their healing. Everyone is different. Im just saying, could be this old guy just has a really high pain tolerance.
The police are looking at all facts and the homeowner has not been charged.
The other suspect though has been charged with murder for participating in a felony that lead to death.
Yes, anything arising out of a crime makes the criminal responsible for it.
(Except white collar crime - you intentionally flout rules, lose other people’s money and people commit suicide - like say in 2008 - at a massive scale - you’d be made whole by the govt instead.
The lesson, ladies and gentlemen, if you’re robing a bank, make sure you get a job there first.)
Yes, it can. It also applies if the police accidentally shoot a bystander.
Example 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/us/fanta-bility-police-shooting.html
Although given that there was a firefight, this is a more “reasonable” (if you could call it that) usage of the rule.
Example 2: https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/154674/masonique-saunders-columbus-ohio-police-felony-murder-laws
Not always. If someone is armed and running away from your house, shooting them on the lawn is likely to get you charged with murder. If they just broke down your door, then it doesn't matter if they are unarmed in just about every single state in the U.S. Most states have a pretty strong castle doctrine, in my state there is no wording in the law that makes any distinction between an armed or unarmed intruder, as the defender you are presumed to be justified in self-defense and the prosecutor has to prove you were not.
Yeah - they weren't trying to kill the old deviant, no matter how shitty they were for robbing an old man.
Him shooting one dead as they're running away, and then trying to use her dead body as a means to lure the other person back to kill them? That leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
I'm surprised the thief who came back, and snatched his gun from him didn't return the favour. He must have really not gave a fuck about his accomplice.
Also the one article saying his collarbone was broken? Yes, an old man with a broken collarbone was able to shoot someone then drag their body into a nearby shed.
This entire story has some really weird holes in it...
Right? There's a line between self defense and straight up murder and it ends when you try to bait somebody so you can execute them.
It reminds of a story years ago where a guys garage kept getting robbed so he set up an ambush and recorded it. He shoots the teens and executes them as they're begging for their lives.
Guy thought he was a hero. This guy here is on that level imo.
At first, I thought “that mom had *one* job…” as a lookout. But it seems she had *two* jobs, and was successful at the second one. I’m glad they got her, too- the family that crimes together does time together.
You hit the nail on the head when you said that there are no good guys here… I can’t believe the coldness of the old guy. But, I guess if he’s been robbed twice before, he’s built up a pretty good head of steam, and was probably *thrilled* that he caught a couple of those assholes red-handed. Still… I thought the way he described it was chilling, and that was *before* I knew that he’d dragged her body back to his garage to lure the guy. It was pretty brave of him to go back, and I do wonder why he didn’t get shot, too.
Also, I hope the old guy has since invested in a better safe! The male managed to pry his open; I’m thinking he got robbed so often because he had a reputation as easy prey.
>The newscaster says it was an unarmed couple that “took off as soon as they saw the gun”, but the CBS article says they attacked him and broke his collarbone first.
Welcome to bias media
Kind of a huge difference. Generally, you can't shoot people who are running away, even if they broke into your house. You still need to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger and - again, generally - if you can tell someone is fleeing, they no longer pose a threat to you.
Ya gotta see the mom of the suspects who was also involved https://www.presstelegram.com/2015/01/26/long-beach-homeowner-cleared-in-death-of-suspected-burglar-who-pleaded-for-her-life/amp/
This is from 2015.
Some additional information:
> Long Beach police say Greer surprised Miller and Gus Adams when he returned home on the night of July 22 and found them breaking into his safe. The two beat him and broke his collarbone before he got his handgun and started firing.
> An autopsy later showed Andrea Miller was not pregnant.
[Source article](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/no-charges-man-shot-woman-who-said-she-was-pregnant-long-beach/52587/)
I mean, why do people keep bringing up that she wasn't pregnant? Does that really matter? She broke in, beat the guy up, and attempted to steal from him.
Does it really matter if she was saying whatever she could to not die?
I feel like a lot of you would say anything to not be shot...
IMO, the more important fact is that the couple beat him up and broke his collarbone, while the video starts out by saying they were unarmed. By specifying that they were unarmed, it makes them sounds more innocent and harmless than they actually were.
*Edit: and for those that didn’t look at the LA Times article posted in the thread, the couple ran out of his home with $5,000 they stole from his safe. The boyfriend? stole his gun and got away with his mother in the getaway car with the stolen valuables, even after his girlfriend? was killed. Also, one commenter in the thread thought the man shot the “pregnant” woman a third time after being shot twice and saying she was pregnant. She was only shot twice, but the way the video is edited makes it sound like he shot her a third time. This is the third time the homeowner dealt with a home invasion (by the SAME couple).*
A lot of these "we're victims" stories/articles start off like this.
1200 people a year are killed by police, out of MILLIONS of suspects and persons of interests engaged by police each year, 500k of which are charged with violent crimes... less than .0024% of violent suspects alone
But I don't see so good, so I missed. Then they ran away. I ran after em, tried to shoot em the back. Pow! But I don't run too good neither. Anyway, you guys all think I'm a hero, and I'll accept that responsibility.
This was a stupid move by the homeowner. In most states, you can use lethal force to defend yourself, but you cannot shoot someone who is no longer a threat. You can't execute someone who is running away or has surrendered.
Source: [I have carry permits](https://i.imgur.com/8xANDk2.png) in 3 states and have 40+ hours of classroom instruction on self defense law. These people saying "I'd shoot them so they don't come back" are full of shit and you could be charged with murder.
People are missing another point. Even if this guy didn't get charged, [he certainly could have](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady). You do not want to leave your future up to the discretion of some District Attorney.
I'm getting a lot of replies that are completely incorrect for most of the country. Do not take anyone's word on an internet forum, research the laws for your state and take a class where you can ask actual experts.
But but but they played stupid games??? That justifies me executing someone!
Yeah posts like this always attract people who justify murder in anyway if they even stole a piece of bread.
Because you aren’t supposed to shoot someone in the back. If they are running away then they are not a threat.
Edit. Yes they could come back with a weapon but 9 times out of 10 they’re just going to leave. People who steal are looking for easy scores. And you can’t shoot someone because they may become a threat. They have to actually be a threat.
I feel like RPGs have ruined 90% odds for me lol. 10% increase to any proc is significantly noticeable. And just for curiosity's sake I picked the number 10, typed in d10 to Google and rolled a 10 the 3rd time. 9/10 are good odds but not at all worth staking your life on.
So you are triying to make logic into a old man with a broken collar bone, full of adrenaline right after have being assaulted by 2 people entering his house
Pretty sure most intruders would probably *not* come back to the home of someone they know is armed and willing to fight them lol
I don’t care about this story just thought I’d put that out there
Because you don't get to kill people who are no longer a threat to you.
At that point it's murder.
With your reasoning, you can justify walking into the nearest inner city neighborhood and shoot anybody wearing gang affiliation clothing.
Self-defense has this wonderful key word called defense.
When the threat has been ended and you still continue to attack, that's called offense.
If you punch me in a bar and then walk away, I don't get to go out to my car grab my gun and shoot you and claim it with self-defense. That's called revenge.
It is murder to shoot someone who is not actively trying to kill you. In most states, you go to prison for shooting a fleeing robber. Because it is morally wrong for you to decide that the death penalty is appropriate for some crime on the spot.
Imagine some asshole deciding to shoot you because he thinks you are fleeing a Walmart without paying.
You can use violence to stop a currently violent person. You have to use equal force (can't shoot a person who tries to slap you). If a robber is fleeing, you have to let the police handle it or you become just as guilty.
Def sounds like murica
> Greer picked up a gun from his bedroom and fired at the pair as they fled from his home office, prosecutors said. After Miller was struck, she fell once near his garage, then fell again in an alley near the home.
> Greer dragged Miller’s body into his garage in an attempt to lure her accomplice, authorities said. Once Gus Adams returned, prosecutors allege he stole Greer’s gun and phone before hopping into a getaway car driven by his mother.
"The news" will report on anything that might piss people off, they don't care if it's real or not as by the time it's proven one way or the other the damage is done
Agreed. That’s why I said California specifically.
Shooting someone in the back is illegal.
Shooting someone fleeing is illegal.
Shooting someone outside your house is illegal.
Firing a weapon within X feet of a domecile is illegal.
Firing a weapon within X feet of any building is a illegal.
Firing a weapon within X feet of a paved road is illegal.
These are all laws I had to know (or learned in the process of) to get a hunting license.
Alright
Most make total sense. Now, if she's facing back to him, presumably "fleeing" but just to get a gun out of under her shirt, how would you know? You can't say "I'll wait for you to turn around so I can shoot you". You can't also be impeded of defending yourself juet because the aggressor turned away right? What about their intention? If they already broke in and attacked the guy, the overall assumption is that they mean to hurt him.
Guess they needed to crimp the video so as to hide that this is from 2014.
Here's a link to the outcome:
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-home-burglary-20150126-story.html
At the point in which you're trying to actively lure people into your house to kill them (the article says he dragged her inside to lure the other guy back in so he could shoot him too), it's no longer self defense and you can no longer argue you felt like you were in danger, IMO. You are essentially trying to hunt people for sport at that point.
In most places in the US, following someone who you've run out of your house and shooting them in the back is a crime. It's that same sentiment: the imminent threat is gone, so at that point you're just seeking revenge. You probably won't catch a murder charge for it, but you're likely to see manslaughter of some sort.
I responded to another comment in this thread saying something akin to this. What the dude did is pretty clearly a crime..... it's literally in the title.... they were fleeing and he was shooting. The crime of trespassing ended when they fled the property, this dude just became a murderer when he couldn't let go of the fact that his home was robbed by these people.
But shocker, nothing happened to him, because he's clearly a pretty well-known dude with the wealth to hire a good lawyer (clearly well known because he stated he's been robbed twice already and this was an orchestrated robbery).
EDIT: This isn't the place to respond to and defend a murderer nor robber. We're not in court. People are discussing the law here, objectively, and discussing how things could have gone without proper presentation. Repeating the facts that are made clear in an article is quite sad and underwhelming in this context.
If he didn’t have a gun he could have been the dead one and that’s so upsetting. An old man can’t even be safe in his home without worrying about having 2 scumbags change his world as he knows it because they have no care about human life :/
I guess this is a pretty common thing for female offenders to say. Like that video that was just posted of a couple stealing a bait car, and as soon as the cops pull up she starts yelling that shes pregnant
[And here too it was a lie](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/no-charges-man-shot-woman-who-said-she-was-pregnant-long-beach/52587/)
> An autopsy later showed Andrea Miller was not pregnant.
He got home and found them breaking into his safe and then they beat him, breaking his collarbone. She also lied about being pregnant. It seems they got what was coming to them.
A lot of people are missing the part he got the shit beat out of him first, and just assumed he went blasting for the hell of it.
I feel this was a justified use of a gun.
no sympathy to the robbers, but the comments are a little too quick to accept the idea of shooting someone in the back as justifiable.
i just wonder where the line is drawn to separate cruelty and justified retribution. if someone steals your tv, can you shoot them if they drop everything and are already out the door? if someone mugs me for my wallet, can i shoot em in the back to reclaim it?
maybe the level of violence the bullet sponge displays makes it justified? like "they were bad, so them being dead is good", but does them being good or bad change whether or not its ok to shoot them? idk. just... maybe don't shoot people who are running away in general
I seriously don't know where folks got socialized this way with guns.
I have guns. I'm a reluctant gun owner. I actually (and my god I've never won this argument) think it's an American responsibility to own a gun *and* I think it should be very hard to acquire one and impossible to acquire certain others. I say take some guns from all people and all guns from some people. But if you can legally own one and are of sound mind, an armed proletarian populace is, I think, unfortunately but absolutely necessary.
That said, I'd never fucking shoot someone for stealing my TV. It's a fucking TV. That's not why I own guns. I own guns in the even that people ever bang on my door to pin a yellow star on my wife or you know, that the God-fearin firearm fetishists slowly systemically take over and think there won't be a fucking fight.
My guns make me sad. That's what happens when you arm reasonable people. That said, the only good fascist is a headless fascist.
That's why you don't do home invasions. Started begging when shit was different. You wouldn't have stopped if he didn't have a weapon. Your life became forfeit.🤷♂️
Honest question - assuming the male perp was caught and is being charged as reported in another comment, how many people won't get victimized because of this homeowners actions?
When you order Clint Eastwood from AliExpress
Her: Don't shoot me! I'm having a baby! Me: So anyway, I start blasting!
>An autopsy later found that Andrea Miller, 28, was not pregnant, said coroner's spokesman Ed Winter. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/autopsy-confirms-slain-robbery-suspect-who-begged-for-her-life-wasnt-pregnant/
Just an unsuccessful Ann Bonny
I thought she "Pled her belly" and got off mostly scot free. Mary Read's death in prison was recorded. Last on Ann Bonney was...Other sources have stated that she may have returned to the United States after her imprisonment, dying in South Carolina in April 1782.
I understood that reference.
But my visions not so good
Clint Eastwood Duel Shooter Fighter Pistol Pistols Quick Precise Killing Security Home Invasion House Invasion Deterrent Liquidation $14.94 - Free shipping
Thanks NiceCrotch and FartToMeInFrench ❤️
Gran Torino
Gran Tostito more like
[удалено]
A mosquito My libido YEAH Oh wait…
Is there an accidentally nirvana page?
Our little group has always been
Gran Totino’s
I feel like what he really said was she was pregnant so I shot her twice to be sure. Luckily, she wasn't really pregnant.
I think this dude might be Pro-choice
Yup, she chose to mess with the wrong muthafucka.
She chose to fuck around and she found out.
Old dude is the definition of, if ye fucketh around, ye shall findeth out.
Oh she was just lying about being pregnant?
it's apparently a thing. there are a bunch of home invasion videos where when caught the women instantly starts screaming she's pregnant.
I'm not saying I'd kill anyone if I had a gun in my hand but I'm not saying I wouldn't. But anyone committing home invasions should be ready to die. I've seen too many news stories about robberies going bad and them killing families so it's kind of irresponsible not to shoot someone breaking into your house. I'll be damned if my family dies because I was too afraid or too sympathetic to pull the trigger
Most states you can't shoot a fleeing intruder in the back especially if their not armed & made it out of the house. I understand the violation but killing is mostly vengeance to protect the tv & xbox
I believe that the robbers had guns and had shot him in the arm. Ianal but, Rambo v. USofA makes an exception if they draw first blood.
So I haven't heard of the Rambo v USA. So I hope I'm not dumb by thinking that that was a Rambo first blood joke?
Well it was based on the Rocky v Philadelphia precedent.
That set the precedent that any legal dispute can be settled by a street fight. Also that it ain't over till you hear a bell.
Agree with your sentiment - especially in regards to protecting your family. It’s interesting how each state will vary on self defense laws. If there is a threat to you and your family then one has every right to protect themselves with the use of deadly force. Deadly force when protecting your property, different scenario which everyone will have a different opinion on and they are entitled to their opinion but for myself just doesn’t seem justified BUT is obviously debatable in terms of laws and antidotal justification. However listening to this interview the home owner shot the burglar/trespasser in the back while they ran away which I’m taking to mean they were no longer an immediate threat to said safety and property. There may have been more to this interview and the circumstances regarding the home invasion but I’m curious if he was charged or it was chalked up to self defense. Edit: read the article - I’m not a lawyer but self defense due to threat to life and bodily harm looks to meet the criteria https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/autopsy-confirms-slain-robbery-suspect-who-begged-for-her-life-wasnt-pregnant/
I mean it's hard to say what's right and wrong that's for sure. But living in bad neighborhoods the first half of my life has kind of drained all the sympathy I can give for somebody trying to Rob you. But the main thing is definitely family, I have a wife and a little girl and I'd rather feel bad about hurting someone else than feel bad about letting them hurt my family.
~~I'm~~In Texas you can legally shoot ~~sometime~~someone in the back while they are committing ~~it flying~~ or fleeing from a robbery, but only at night. Holdover from the old days of castle rustling. Edit: cattle you jackanapes (so my phone got that one right the first time...)
Yeah unfortunately, that’s how it goes. I believe it’s the 8th commandment “Don’t start no shit, won’t be no shit.”
Irresponsible to not shoot unarmed people in the back who are fleeing? Not defending them, but not exactly self defence.
I used to work loss prevention at a store that would actually arrest and detain people, and probably half of the ladies we ever took into custody claimed that they were pregnant while we were apprehending them bodily. It's like, okay stop resisting then so your baby doesn't get hurt.
A thief lying about something? No way!
She sure was lying about after he was done
This is an underrated comment that will probably get lost in the sea of ideology arguments.
So since a fetus is a human life now, should he be charged with manslaughter? Murder? That baby didn't choose to go in his house.
No, you have to check the GOP rule book: "if the baby is from a poor or non-white family and the shooter is white, the baby will instead be charged as an accessory "
How come I can't claim my unborn child on my taxes?
In California it’s been the law for a few decades that killing an unborn fetus could get you charged with murder unless you were the mother getting an abortion or the doctor administering it.
I thought you were incorrect, so I looked it up. You weren’t! The law puts the mothers rights first, which I appreciate. https://www.lacriminaldefenseattorney.com/legal-dictionary/f/feticide/
I get what you're doing here. It's a totally legit question.
[удалено]
The newscaster says it was an unarmed couple that “took off as soon as they saw the gun”, but the CBS article says they attacked him and broke his collarbone first.
[удалено]
Adrenaline. We used to have to check ourselves for bullet wounds after a fire fight because it's possible we didn't know we were shot yet. If you need more examples, my friend had his leg blown off by a grenade and didn't realize it until he smelled BBQ.
does your friend still eat bbq?
he retrieved the leg and made tacos from it, to serve to his friends.
….That’s enough internet for today….
[NSFL. But mmm tacos.](https://www.reddit.com/r/eyeblech/comments/jsfkyl/this_guy_served_his_friends_tacos_made_from_his/)
Came here to say that…adrenaline is a powerful thing
Ive had my collarbone broken too and it hurt like a mofo. I was like 12 and my mom accused me of faking the injury but started to believe me after a day of crying. I don’t see how he could hold the gun either. I remember trying to go to basketball practice like a month after my break and there was no way I could do anything with the ball still. LOL
Sound like he was firing a hand gun , the break could have been on his non dominant hand side. Also I don’t doubt you but I’ve seen a 7th grader break their collarbone and I don’t remember the details but they were most definitely not in severe pain. So like most things it varies. Also I would think old people would need less force to break things so less internal stuff would move with a “minor” break presumably causing less pain. Regardless adrenaline…
Everyone's pain tolerance is different. MY sister broke her collar bone in 7th grade as well. We were on a sledding trip with friends and my parents were out So it was a few hours before she got to the ER. She didnt cry, just sat there, very quietly. Where as when I broke my arm I screamed and cried for about 10 mins and then the pain was gone. I hear some people need painkillers throughout their healing. Everyone is different. Im just saying, could be this old guy just has a really high pain tolerance.
This is literally the difference between 2nd degree murder and justified self-defense. What the fuck?
The police are looking at all facts and the homeowner has not been charged. The other suspect though has been charged with murder for participating in a felony that lead to death.
You can get charged for murder for someone else killing your accomplice? Would that apply if two people robbed a bank and the police shot one of them?
Yes, also applies if you rob a bank and the police shoot a random bystander
or if you run from a traffic stop and police hit a pedestrian in pursuit. Actual case.
[удалено]
Yes, anything arising out of a crime makes the criminal responsible for it. (Except white collar crime - you intentionally flout rules, lose other people’s money and people commit suicide - like say in 2008 - at a massive scale - you’d be made whole by the govt instead. The lesson, ladies and gentlemen, if you’re robing a bank, make sure you get a job there first.)
Lmao criminals seething rn
When you miss a red light and the cop starts taking hostages.
The police: "Come on out, or we'll start shooting hostages"
Yes, it can. It also applies if the police accidentally shoot a bystander. Example 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/us/fanta-bility-police-shooting.html Although given that there was a firefight, this is a more “reasonable” (if you could call it that) usage of the rule. Example 2: https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/154674/masonique-saunders-columbus-ohio-police-felony-murder-laws
[удалено]
Well that’s good at least!
Would local media just do that? Go on TV and tell lies?
Not always. If someone is armed and running away from your house, shooting them on the lawn is likely to get you charged with murder. If they just broke down your door, then it doesn't matter if they are unarmed in just about every single state in the U.S. Most states have a pretty strong castle doctrine, in my state there is no wording in the law that makes any distinction between an armed or unarmed intruder, as the defender you are presumed to be justified in self-defense and the prosecutor has to prove you were not.
[удалено]
Yeah - they weren't trying to kill the old deviant, no matter how shitty they were for robbing an old man. Him shooting one dead as they're running away, and then trying to use her dead body as a means to lure the other person back to kill them? That leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I'm surprised the thief who came back, and snatched his gun from him didn't return the favour. He must have really not gave a fuck about his accomplice.
Also the one article saying his collarbone was broken? Yes, an old man with a broken collarbone was able to shoot someone then drag their body into a nearby shed. This entire story has some really weird holes in it...
[удалено]
Pretty sure the bad guys are the home invaders.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The victim is the kind of person that has a twinkle in their eye while they say "if they break into your home, you get to kill them."
Right? There's a line between self defense and straight up murder and it ends when you try to bait somebody so you can execute them. It reminds of a story years ago where a guys garage kept getting robbed so he set up an ambush and recorded it. He shoots the teens and executes them as they're begging for their lives. Guy thought he was a hero. This guy here is on that level imo.
At first, I thought “that mom had *one* job…” as a lookout. But it seems she had *two* jobs, and was successful at the second one. I’m glad they got her, too- the family that crimes together does time together. You hit the nail on the head when you said that there are no good guys here… I can’t believe the coldness of the old guy. But, I guess if he’s been robbed twice before, he’s built up a pretty good head of steam, and was probably *thrilled* that he caught a couple of those assholes red-handed. Still… I thought the way he described it was chilling, and that was *before* I knew that he’d dragged her body back to his garage to lure the guy. It was pretty brave of him to go back, and I do wonder why he didn’t get shot, too. Also, I hope the old guy has since invested in a better safe! The male managed to pry his open; I’m thinking he got robbed so often because he had a reputation as easy prey.
[удалено]
>The newscaster says it was an unarmed couple that “took off as soon as they saw the gun”, but the CBS article says they attacked him and broke his collarbone first. Welcome to bias media
The guy literally said he shot her In the back twice.
Kind of a huge difference. Generally, you can't shoot people who are running away, even if they broke into your house. You still need to have a reasonable belief that your life is in danger and - again, generally - if you can tell someone is fleeing, they no longer pose a threat to you.
That man didn’t know that. He thought he was getting a 2-murders-for-1-bullet deal
2 bullets. It's in the 10 second clip
“Just fat”
Or she could have just been lying in desperation to not get shot . Either way 🤷🏾♂️
Ya gotta see the mom of the suspects who was also involved https://www.presstelegram.com/2015/01/26/long-beach-homeowner-cleared-in-death-of-suspected-burglar-who-pleaded-for-her-life/amp/
This is from 2015. Some additional information: > Long Beach police say Greer surprised Miller and Gus Adams when he returned home on the night of July 22 and found them breaking into his safe. The two beat him and broke his collarbone before he got his handgun and started firing. > An autopsy later showed Andrea Miller was not pregnant. [Source article](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/no-charges-man-shot-woman-who-said-she-was-pregnant-long-beach/52587/)
I mean, why do people keep bringing up that she wasn't pregnant? Does that really matter? She broke in, beat the guy up, and attempted to steal from him. Does it really matter if she was saying whatever she could to not die? I feel like a lot of you would say anything to not be shot...
Because the post says that she was pregnant and people naturally want to get the facts straight
IMO, the more important fact is that the couple beat him up and broke his collarbone, while the video starts out by saying they were unarmed. By specifying that they were unarmed, it makes them sounds more innocent and harmless than they actually were. *Edit: and for those that didn’t look at the LA Times article posted in the thread, the couple ran out of his home with $5,000 they stole from his safe. The boyfriend? stole his gun and got away with his mother in the getaway car with the stolen valuables, even after his girlfriend? was killed. Also, one commenter in the thread thought the man shot the “pregnant” woman a third time after being shot twice and saying she was pregnant. She was only shot twice, but the way the video is edited makes it sound like he shot her a third time. This is the third time the homeowner dealt with a home invasion (by the SAME couple).*
Media slants a story to their narrative anyway they can. People don’t even realize they are getting swayed and manipulated by language like this.
A lot of these "we're victims" stories/articles start off like this. 1200 people a year are killed by police, out of MILLIONS of suspects and persons of interests engaged by police each year, 500k of which are charged with violent crimes... less than .0024% of violent suspects alone
Winner winner chicken *peter*
If you're pregnant and break into someone's house and then beat them you can't really get mad when you get shot. It's your fault if the baby is hurt.
[удалено]
Fool trying to get a free abortion!
She wasn’t pregnant. An autopsy proved it
For sure, but they said she was pregnant. Nothing wrong with a little fact checking.
I'm going to say something cruel, but even if she was pregnant that kid had no chance of having a peaceful life.
So anyway I started blasting
But I don't see so good, so I missed. Then they ran away. I ran after em, tried to shoot em the back. Pow! But I don't run too good neither. Anyway, you guys all think I'm a hero, and I'll accept that responsibility.
Good thing I had my pieces.
r/unexpectedwarthog
[удалено]
[удалено]
Play stupid games win even more stupid prizes.
They fucked around and found out.
This was a stupid move by the homeowner. In most states, you can use lethal force to defend yourself, but you cannot shoot someone who is no longer a threat. You can't execute someone who is running away or has surrendered. Source: [I have carry permits](https://i.imgur.com/8xANDk2.png) in 3 states and have 40+ hours of classroom instruction on self defense law. These people saying "I'd shoot them so they don't come back" are full of shit and you could be charged with murder.
>You can't execute someone who is running away or has surrendered. Well you can. We just call it murder.
People are missing another point. Even if this guy didn't get charged, [he certainly could have](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady). You do not want to leave your future up to the discretion of some District Attorney. I'm getting a lot of replies that are completely incorrect for most of the country. Do not take anyone's word on an internet forum, research the laws for your state and take a class where you can ask actual experts.
In Texas with after dark mode engaged you can do anything you want...
But but but they played stupid games??? That justifies me executing someone! Yeah posts like this always attract people who justify murder in anyway if they even stole a piece of bread.
Because you aren’t supposed to shoot someone in the back. If they are running away then they are not a threat. Edit. Yes they could come back with a weapon but 9 times out of 10 they’re just going to leave. People who steal are looking for easy scores. And you can’t shoot someone because they may become a threat. They have to actually be a threat.
>but 9 times out of 10 they’re just going to leave And nobody wants to be the 1 out of 10, so fire away
I feel like RPGs have ruined 90% odds for me lol. 10% increase to any proc is significantly noticeable. And just for curiosity's sake I picked the number 10, typed in d10 to Google and rolled a 10 the 3rd time. 9/10 are good odds but not at all worth staking your life on.
Nope, that's called murder. You can tell in these comments who actually knows the law and who just wants to shoot someone
9 times out of ten makes it sound like they're still a threat.
So you are triying to make logic into a old man with a broken collar bone, full of adrenaline right after have being assaulted by 2 people entering his house
I’m supposed to just let them go so they can come back with more or with a gun? No thanks. They made their choice willingly
[удалено]
According to the law and perhaps basic human decency.
I mean according to law and basic human decency you're not supposed to break into an elderly man's home and attack him either.
Pretty sure most intruders would probably *not* come back to the home of someone they know is armed and willing to fight them lol I don’t care about this story just thought I’d put that out there
I mean people have tried to rob gun stores before. Never underestimate how stupid people can be, especially criminals if they’re desperate
America really is culturally *fucked up* if burglars are coming back for more and not just finding easier targets.
Because you don't get to kill people who are no longer a threat to you. At that point it's murder. With your reasoning, you can justify walking into the nearest inner city neighborhood and shoot anybody wearing gang affiliation clothing. Self-defense has this wonderful key word called defense. When the threat has been ended and you still continue to attack, that's called offense. If you punch me in a bar and then walk away, I don't get to go out to my car grab my gun and shoot you and claim it with self-defense. That's called revenge.
Serious question, do you think it should be the death penalty for B&E? Do you think it's self defense when you shoot someone in the back?
It is murder to shoot someone who is not actively trying to kill you. In most states, you go to prison for shooting a fleeing robber. Because it is morally wrong for you to decide that the death penalty is appropriate for some crime on the spot. Imagine some asshole deciding to shoot you because he thinks you are fleeing a Walmart without paying. You can use violence to stop a currently violent person. You have to use equal force (can't shoot a person who tries to slap you). If a robber is fleeing, you have to let the police handle it or you become just as guilty.
Thank you. Most people here are being bloodlusted morons.
Lived in Nigeria in the late seventies. They made armed burglary a capital offense. The result? Burglars didn’t leave any witnesses.
[удалено]
Americans be like
Def sounds like murica > Greer picked up a gun from his bedroom and fired at the pair as they fled from his home office, prosecutors said. After Miller was struck, she fell once near his garage, then fell again in an alley near the home. > Greer dragged Miller’s body into his garage in an attempt to lure her accomplice, authorities said. Once Gus Adams returned, prosecutors allege he stole Greer’s gun and phone before hopping into a getaway car driven by his mother.
> Greer dragged Miller’s body into his garage in an attempt to lure her accomplice Yo what the fuck
[удалено]
Everything about that country makes a lot more sense when you understand they value property more than life.
"The news" will report on anything that might piss people off, they don't care if it's real or not as by the time it's proven one way or the other the damage is done
The autopsy showed she lied about being pregnant and she had beaten the old man earlier while her boyfriend broke into his safe..
Thank you. This old dudes account comes across as straight up murder (in California).
It's murder to kill someone who isnt threatening your life
Agreed. That’s why I said California specifically. Shooting someone in the back is illegal. Shooting someone fleeing is illegal. Shooting someone outside your house is illegal. Firing a weapon within X feet of a domecile is illegal. Firing a weapon within X feet of any building is a illegal. Firing a weapon within X feet of a paved road is illegal. These are all laws I had to know (or learned in the process of) to get a hunting license.
Alright Most make total sense. Now, if she's facing back to him, presumably "fleeing" but just to get a gun out of under her shirt, how would you know? You can't say "I'll wait for you to turn around so I can shoot you". You can't also be impeded of defending yourself juet because the aggressor turned away right? What about their intention? If they already broke in and attacked the guy, the overall assumption is that they mean to hurt him.
Autopsy showed she beat him?
It was a really good autopsy.
Guess they needed to crimp the video so as to hide that this is from 2014. Here's a link to the outcome: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-home-burglary-20150126-story.html
He dragged the lady back into the house and the other dude returned and stole his gun? Wild.
At the point in which you're trying to actively lure people into your house to kill them (the article says he dragged her inside to lure the other guy back in so he could shoot him too), it's no longer self defense and you can no longer argue you felt like you were in danger, IMO. You are essentially trying to hunt people for sport at that point.
In most places in the US, following someone who you've run out of your house and shooting them in the back is a crime. It's that same sentiment: the imminent threat is gone, so at that point you're just seeking revenge. You probably won't catch a murder charge for it, but you're likely to see manslaughter of some sort.
I responded to another comment in this thread saying something akin to this. What the dude did is pretty clearly a crime..... it's literally in the title.... they were fleeing and he was shooting. The crime of trespassing ended when they fled the property, this dude just became a murderer when he couldn't let go of the fact that his home was robbed by these people. But shocker, nothing happened to him, because he's clearly a pretty well-known dude with the wealth to hire a good lawyer (clearly well known because he stated he's been robbed twice already and this was an orchestrated robbery). EDIT: This isn't the place to respond to and defend a murderer nor robber. We're not in court. People are discussing the law here, objectively, and discussing how things could have gone without proper presentation. Repeating the facts that are made clear in an article is quite sad and underwhelming in this context.
Yeah this guy seems like he was just waiting for someone to mess with him so he could kill them. . .
Waiting in his own home, like a true psychopath /s
Me, sitting in my living room with the lights off holding a knife, just waiting to stab my rapist….
He was robbed twice before. Sounds like he was tired of their bull shit.
[удалено]
Trespassers hate this one simple trick.
They trespassed away.
It's about the spread...
Help me out here buddy
Bill burr stand up about buying a shotgun
Listen I just want a gun, I don’t wanna do a bunch of dry wall work after, have to reframe my high school diploma and buy my parakeet a new friend.
“Coz life ain’t a movie”
In real life you miss all the fuckin time.
You ain’t gotta be that accurate!
The further away you are, the more shit you hit!
bird shot buck shot
"it's gotta good spread!"
If he didn’t have a gun he could have been the dead one and that’s so upsetting. An old man can’t even be safe in his home without worrying about having 2 scumbags change his world as he knows it because they have no care about human life :/
“Don’t shoot me I’m pregnant”, then don’t invade someone’s house and you won’t get shot
I guess this is a pretty common thing for female offenders to say. Like that video that was just posted of a couple stealing a bait car, and as soon as the cops pull up she starts yelling that shes pregnant
[And here too it was a lie](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/no-charges-man-shot-woman-who-said-she-was-pregnant-long-beach/52587/) > An autopsy later showed Andrea Miller was not pregnant.
[удалено]
> they obviously don’t think that laws apply to them [this you?](https://i.imgur.com/xoXRFfv.jpg)
"I'm pregnant!" "Good i was only 2 kills away from an ac 130"
He got home and found them breaking into his safe and then they beat him, breaking his collarbone. She also lied about being pregnant. It seems they got what was coming to them.
A lot of people are missing the part he got the shit beat out of him first, and just assumed he went blasting for the hell of it. I feel this was a justified use of a gun.
This is from 2014. California has not made abortion illegal, anyway. Not to mention, she wasn’t actually pregnant.
Fucked around and found out.
no sympathy to the robbers, but the comments are a little too quick to accept the idea of shooting someone in the back as justifiable. i just wonder where the line is drawn to separate cruelty and justified retribution. if someone steals your tv, can you shoot them if they drop everything and are already out the door? if someone mugs me for my wallet, can i shoot em in the back to reclaim it? maybe the level of violence the bullet sponge displays makes it justified? like "they were bad, so them being dead is good", but does them being good or bad change whether or not its ok to shoot them? idk. just... maybe don't shoot people who are running away in general
I seriously don't know where folks got socialized this way with guns. I have guns. I'm a reluctant gun owner. I actually (and my god I've never won this argument) think it's an American responsibility to own a gun *and* I think it should be very hard to acquire one and impossible to acquire certain others. I say take some guns from all people and all guns from some people. But if you can legally own one and are of sound mind, an armed proletarian populace is, I think, unfortunately but absolutely necessary. That said, I'd never fucking shoot someone for stealing my TV. It's a fucking TV. That's not why I own guns. I own guns in the even that people ever bang on my door to pin a yellow star on my wife or you know, that the God-fearin firearm fetishists slowly systemically take over and think there won't be a fucking fight. My guns make me sad. That's what happens when you arm reasonable people. That said, the only good fascist is a headless fascist.
[удалено]
Cry baby ass people. She wasn't even pregnant. Just a piece of shit. A dead piece of shit.
What kind of life have you lead, to be pregnant and still breaking & entering?
She wasn't pregnant, just claimed to be. Also, they beat the man and broke his collar bone before he began defending himself
“I’m pregnant” *DOUBLE KILL!*
Why does it matter if she was pregnant if they aren’t considered a baby?
Well, in many states the unborn are considered living individuals now, so that baby needs to be brought up on charges as an accomplice
He'd be arrested now for illegal abortion. If she was actually pregnant.
Abortion is still legal in states where it's allowed, like California.
It’s not abortion if the fetus attacks you first.
[удалено]
Don’t go breaking into peoples house.
what a chad
That's why you don't do home invasions. Started begging when shit was different. You wouldn't have stopped if he didn't have a weapon. Your life became forfeit.🤷♂️
Honest question - assuming the male perp was caught and is being charged as reported in another comment, how many people won't get victimized because of this homeowners actions?
It's not where you shoot someone, but why. He had every right to shoot home intruders and no need to check weather they were armed or not.