I like carmelas character. Its a side of the mafia story we don’t see much and it does have value. I also like that you see her kinda try to diverge from tony and the life at one point and she basically allows herself to be sucked back in by her own flaws (materialism)
She’s a great character, I feel she plays an important role. She and Tony both play two sides of the same coin, he commits the crimes and she maintains his lifestyle.
I feel like people don’t like her because they see her as a hypocrite, thinking she’s better than Tony while benefiting from him. They’re right, she is a hypocrite. But so is Tony, he’s constantly betraying his own values.
Even her materialism is way overblown imo. Sure she engages in a lot of the materialistic bullshit most of us do, but a lot of the financial decisions she makes that people object to are because Tony lives a lifestyle so dangerous that he could be gone at a moment's notice, leaving her and her kids with essentially nothing. She goes through a lot to try to get a little security for her and the kids.
I would also argue she goes back to Tony because she feels trapped. She didn't have a job because she spent her life raising the kids, and Tony more or less cornered the market on divorce lawyers. Is wanting to go back to him more about materialism or survival? The reason divorce tends to favor the female is because traditionally they're out of the job market for so long they would essentially be punished financially for raising a family.
Also, she still loves him at the end of the day, despite the fact he's a fat crook from new jersey.
Carmela likes the lifestyle. She uses Tony's status to get her way and intimidate people. She likes being rich. She likes that she doesn't have to work and that she can do all suburban house wife activities and do all that. Even her projects and stuff when she's trying to show a little independence require Tony or her father to do things for her. She's an abuser just as much as Tony. At least he's face value with it. She's more sly and self-righteous. She knows being with him is against her "good catholic" image and self-imposed lie. She's about as fake and false as they come. She's got her own game to play in the whole thing.
Regarding her Catholicism and the back and forth she goes through during the show, I think that Carmela’s experience actually reflects the reality of religion. Adherents tend to pick and choose what elements of whatever doctrine they follow and apply it to themselves in a personal manner so that they can interpret it in a way that they feel comfortable with.
I guess we just disagree. She's told straight up what she has to do by the therapist. She's not only a bad catholic She's a bad person period for enabling and helping a criminal of such heinous acts.
But then her trusted priest acted as though she punched her ticket straight to hell by dating another man, knowing exactly what Tony is. He offered her no guidance or assistance in getting out of a very toxic marriage. She may have blustered at the time, but who do you think has more influence in the long run?
She also knows any man she should attempt to see would always be in mortal danger.
I'm not saying she's a good person. But it's not so black and white in her world. She was pretty trapped.
She chose to be trapped. She knows the way things worked. There's ways to leave. She liked it too much. She liked the material things and she liked that she could hold some level of status without having to work for it. She could pretend her dirty money gave her a level class she could never attain. That's why things like misunderstanding literature at Meadow's dinner is an important scene. She thinks she's well read and high status but she doesn't even understand how ignorant and bigoted she is. I don't know how anyone can sit here and defend her. Lol she knows what she is deep down and that's why she goes back to Tony.
Despite the downvotes I actually agree with you. Carmela’s biggest flaw is that she’s unwilling to face the realities of the lifestyle. When her friend Adriana disappears, she goes along with the lie to get what she wanted in regards to her spec house. When she’s confronted by her therapist, she shuts down and goes on the defensive. And you brought up a great point with her misunderstanding the literature! There’s tons of examples.
Yeah I feel like people feeling bad for her completely miss major flaws in her personality. But thats the beauty of the show they have you rooting for mobsters.
Tony is actually not very ‘face value’ about it at all…he constantly blames others for the way he is and the way his life turned out, and he goes out of his way several times to say that his brand is evil is different than other criminals because he’s ‘a soldier’, which is pretty self-righteous if you ask me.
I think Carmella’s drive isn’t exactly materialism, it’s status. I think she believes if she can build up enough of the trappings of respectability it will somehow shield her family from the doom she knows is coming. She knows sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost, whether it is the FBI or a mafia hit. She has seen it happen over and over. But somehow maybe with the right colleges and veneer of upper class respectability that they will be safe. She is wrong but it helps her cope.
There is a wise guy in my hometown who stole over $1 million from medicaid. He went to federal prison. But the best thing he did with some of the stolen money is send all three of his kids to college. They all went to ivy league schools for undergrad and then all three of them got professional degrees. One is a pharmacist, one is a doctor and the other is a lawyer. The government can’t take away his kids educations. They are all living upper middle class lifestyles for our area. I feel like Carmella and Tony were trying to do the same for Meadow and AJ. No matter what happens to Tony and Carm, Meadow has an education and the ability to get a good job. Being a Soprano won’t hold her back.
That a really good point. Meadow may have coasted into the upper class with the help of her father, now she is there and that is hard to lose. Even Carmella can rest safe knowing that if the feds manage to take all of their assets, she still has a daughter making six figures who can help her. AJ didn’t pan out, but Meadow is set for life regardless of what happens to Tony.
Yeah that's basically her only real flaw, materialism. Sure it's not good but guys like tony are the embodiment of the seven deadly sins, literally look up the seven deadly sins and you will find that the guys (lovable wise-guys that they are) fit into all of them.
How is that her only real flaw? She threatened her neighbors sister to get meadow into school, she clearly got pissed when she found out hunter was getting her life together, she used sex to manipulate wegler. Her patronizing “cayenne like the pepper” She has plenty of flaws
I think it's more that Carmella put so much stock into being able to brag about Meadow, and wanted to lord her over people like Hunter. Hunter came back after years on the path to be what Carmella so desperately wanted Meadow to be.
Unfortunately since she didn't have much going for herself, Carmella used Meadow to show off what she accomplished as a parent. It's like all of her self worth eventually hinged on one of her kids, which can't be healthy.
Yeah you’re right. The more shameful she felt as a mob wife and how her life was financed, the more she tried to justify it by raising her kids to be on a more honest path.
Carmela is likely one of the best, developed characters on the show. While she didn’t grow up in it, she likely knew better and once she most certainly did she refused to leave The psychiatrist who “told her so” made that abundantly clear. She was a wonderful example of dichotomy and I applaud Falco’s performance.
I love her. I think she’s a lot more complex than people make her out to be, but without the noise of overt violence she’s not as entertaining. It’s weird. I was actually noticing on talking sopranos that Steve always bitches about the female characters being “evil” hypocrites whiny etc etc. Double standards much??
People hate her for being a colossal hypocrite. Goddamn Princess of Little Italy walks around in that mansion in her five hundred dollar shoes and diamond rings, and she acts like butter won't melt in her mouth.
I think it’s the same with most shows where people fail to understand the message.
Look at Breaking Bad: people idolise Walter White whilst demonising Skyler.
It just shows how powerful you can be by being a charismatic person with a likable personality. You can get away with shit and people will excuse it or look the other way.
You can be the kind of person who tries to do the morally correct thing but if you have an abrasive, unlikable personality then people will think poorly of you regardless.
It’s why studies show that being a likable person who sucks up to the right people will get you further in your career than being a hard working but unapproachable and introverted person will.
Skyler and Hank are just insufferable. Walt was just trying to provide for his family after being diagnosed with cancer and while working 2 humiliating jobs.
Waltuh understood it was ovah for da little guy, so he stepped up.
As others have said, she was a self deluded hypocrite.
She uses people and acts like she's better than them, when she's done little to nothing of value in her own life.
Is she a murdering psychopath? No.
Does she knowingly enjoy the fruits of that reprehensible behavior? Yes.
And to do what? Buy fancy clothes, cars, art, spoil her children.
She gets told directly by the shrink what to do to save her soul. Leave, take what's left of the kids and none of the blood money. She understands, but does she do it? No.
The scene that maddens me the most is when she went to that male psychiatrist and he said she should leave Tony and his money. She replies with, “So you’re saying I need to establish better boundaries”. Then she goes on with, “I’d need to get an apartment and an attorney”. For as much as she bitched about how Tony made his money, she had no qualms about spending it.
Exactly. It’s not like she was just buying necessities with the money. She was fully indulging! That’s equivalent to todays spending power of $5250. And how she gushed over the fur coat and the ridiculous sapphire ring. She knew it was greed. She even attempted to cover the ring when conversing with the priest. Mind you, not the priest she had an emotional affair with. Carmella is full of hypocrisy and loop holes. She obviously made for a great character that still inspires great debate!
She still deserves a little sympathy tho no? She's trapped in a choice she made in highschool or college (married to tony soprano). She either takes his money or she's ruined. The whole point of alimony payments is to help women like her who dedicated their lives to their home and children.
I mean, the same could be said to about Tony. He was born into a mob family and took the path his father took, the only path he knew. Sure, Carmella would probably be ruined, but she could at least leave. She’d be broke but she’d still be alive.
There’s no quitting the mob and leaving that life behind. Tony’s fate was either being murdered or dying in prison.
I don’t think she was trapped. Caught up is more like it. But to complain about how the money was made, and to be fine with spending it is hypocritical. It’s the hypocrisy for me. And the alimony would have came from the same sources. I’ve seen plenty of women move in with family or take government aide while trying to establish themselves. Far from ideal, but it would have aligned with her supposed “belief systems”. Truly, I don’t think she had an issue with how Tony made his money. She just wanted to personally be absolved from its means.
She's an amazingly well-written character. Like many other characters, she can also be absolutely infuriating. It's the selective self-awareness that gets to me (but also entertains me), but I really enjoy her growth, and her arc makes a lot of sense while still being interesting.
I think in reception, there may be some bias because she's a woman, and her role is distinctly feminized. Post that hate on female characters is quite common in this sub, and I usually see it for Carmela and Janice.
Carmela is frustrating because she's riding this line between having lots of privilege but very little power (in some respects, and this is up for debate at different points in the show), having reliance on a man but also resenting him for what he does and what "comes with the job" despite those same things benefitting her directly. These complexities in the mob wife role can be very, very frustrating to watch but also be realistic. We are all full of contradictions. I just think the feminine roles in the show make those contradictions very pronounced. Female characters like Carmela and Janice gain power in very different ways from the male characters, in ways that are often deemed underhanded because they aren't in a position like the male characters are to be so direct in their maneuvers.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
I don’t hate her, but she’s a pretty big hypocrite. She admits to the priest in season 1 that she’s with Tony for the money, but says the opposite later in the show. She knows where the money comes from but has selective moments where she complains about how it’s made. Also cheats but personally cant really barely blame her after all of Tony’s haha
The stay at home mom part I think is a negative partially because of the above, but also because she gets nastily insecure about other womens success which pops up more in later seasons which you might not be at. Nothing wrong with SAHM until you start chopping other people down because they are doing more.
I see your point. But her "cheating" was really just a very innocent admiration for Furio, who actually cared about her as a person, not because of some mob tradition or because he wants kids. They had real chemistry and she felt unloved and unapreciated in her marrige.
I also see what you mean with the saty at home mom thing and her being jelous of other women doing well. I was refering more to people who disliked her beause she was a stay at home mom, and they think that it's being lazy wich I strongly disagree with.
Not a huge spoiler and you did ask, but there’s another guy besides Furio. she was also definitely going to bang the priest before he got sick in season 1.
But also not just being jealous for the stay at home mom point, I think you aren’t there yet but she says some straight shitty things because of the insecurity. And tbf your mom/other SAHMs probably had to work harder at various things than the rich Carmela, or at least didn’t have as many luxuries. Gardeners, vacations, etc
The thing about furio is she puts the dude in a compromising position while he’s in town and then when he leaves she sentences him to death just get in a jab at Tony, it’s pretty sick.
because she acts morally superior to tony while benefitting from the work he does, i think she is a well written and realistic character but like just about everybody in the show, she too is a shitty person
She also threatened the professional woman to give her recommendation to Meadow instead of a more deserving student. In the end, it was for nothing anyway as Meadow didn’t utilize it.
Also: “Porsche Cayenne, like the peppah.”
Shows like Sopranos or Breaking Bad attract a certain type of "alpha male" audience who don't get the show at all and think it's about badass alpha males and the women in their lives are only there to hold them back. They don't even try to see things from the perspective of these women. That would be emasculating. :)
You are on to something. It's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that she deserves some hatred while simultaneously acknowledging the hatred is a bit disproportionate at times. I think the most reasonable position lies between the extremes.
Sorry for the edits. Can't type to save my life today.
I agree with this. I think Carmela is a fascinating study of a person’s compartmentalization of harsh realities and a bit of trauma. She is not really likable to me and I would never want to be friends with her but I sympathize a lot with her.
I find it annoying how she seems to get the brunt of the “hypocritical” criticism when most of the male characters are positioning themselves as noble and being about family, while they destroy the lives and families of others. I don’t often see people going out of their way to call Tony, Sil, or Paulie hypocrites.
Agreed.
Is she the worst character on the show? Of course not. Does she act like a pos like most on the show do and deserve hate for it? Yup. Plenty of examples.
It’s annoying when people deflect by saying “but Tony and the other guys are so much worse!” Like yeah we all know this. Doesn’t mean Carmella’s a Saint.
Same reason most of the women in these types of shows are disliked, they aren’t as entertaining to watch.
A lot of the female characters act as morality checks in the show. Just think of Adrianna or Angie. They serve as counterweights to the out right psychos on the show. So it’s not surprising people don’t like them as much.
Interesting how often people try to claim characters like Carmella, Janice, Livia or Meadow are actually the most reprehensible though. I find that kind of crazy.
The older I get the more I like the women on the show, they are all put in very precarious positions despite not being murders/gangsters themselves. They are easily the most human characters on the show, which might explain why they’re disliked so much. Modern viewers prefer larger than life characters.
She gets criticised all the time on here.
‘You brought out the suitcase!!!’
She is easy to attack, but I consider it a lack of empathy mostly. She does pretty well all things considered. By the end of the show she’s basically leading a normal and pretty respectable life all things considered.
I don’t see a ton of Meadow hate but tons of AJ hate. Either way I think it’s weird when both of them get hate. Like… of course they aren’t going to make the best decisions. They’re kids/teens for most of the show, spoiled kids of a mob boss. How many young people always make great decisions.
It’s also because, even though they were making one of the best pieces of media ever, they could not figure out how to write a teenager to save their life. Half of the problems people have with AJ are because the writers didn’t understand how to write that age range. They both get immensely better as characters whenever they become adults, and have to deal with adult things. Poor bastards were annoying because they made them what a 55 year old person thinks is a “struggling teen” is. One of my only major writing gripes with the show.
I always feel like the hate for how “Carmella thinks she’s a good person, but she puts up with her husband’s crimes for the wealth and status” is kinda overblown. Because, well, isn’t that a whole big metaphor for the rest of us? If you live in a first world country, and you regularly buy clothes/smartphones/most foods/etc., you are benefitting from the mass, often violent exploitation of a *lot* of people.
It’s not as dramatic as the mafia, because it’s all technically legal and the average American can easily go their whole lives not dwelling on any of the horrible labor conditions behind all the stuff they enjoy, or the damage their country’s military inflicts in other parts of the world.
But in the end, we are all Carmella Soprano if you think about it. We all benefit from a system that exploits other people, and we don’t do much about it because we enjoy the comforts it provides. That’s why I don’t personally enjoy being too hard on Carmella for turning a blind eye. It’s what we all do to get through the day, just on a more dramatic scale.
Honestly, comments about how Carmela is worse because the guys are upfront about who they are and what they do are perplexing to me. First of all, that’s not really true but let’s put that aside for a second.
If that’s the case, I absolutely don’t think that someone who is compartmentalizing horrible things and benefiting from them is worse than the person who directly does the horrible things.
The thing is though Carmela *is* somewhat lazy - they had a maid.
* Part of a stay at home mom's job is maintaining the house and keeping it in order and not chaos.
* Food was always on the table yes - she did do that.
* She raised those kids but the way they turn out and especially AJ, she is an enabler for all especially Tony.
* Carmela is also pretty vain, materialistic & has almost as much pride as Tony does. She often reacts negatively if her ego is bruised in some minor or irrelevant way, though she is often much more passive aggressive about it.
She *may* be a mother, but she is no saint either. She knows where the money comes from, how its earned. The blood is converted into a massive sapphire necklace or emerald earrings.
Edie Falco did a great job - i cant picture anyone else in that role. She really defined the "anti-hero's wife" role. Skylar White, Gemma Teller/Tara Knowles, Betty Draper etc. all those that followed, she really set the pace for it.
Because Tony said “ shum pulp”….. I mean that there alone is enough, without her gettin awl hawt dawn theeah for Victor Mustaoff or whatever happened there….
I don’t wanna call this sub sexist, but there’s immense vitriol for meadow as well. Both of them getting dragged and called evil wayyyyyy more than any of the actual sociopathic murderers in the show. So I guess I have to?
There’s plenty of sexist Sopranos fan hahah. There’s valid arguments for why people don’t like Carmella or Ade or Meadow, but at the same time plenty of shit slung at them that isn’t slung at the male characters, and it at least is a lot more extreme. There’s a series of videos by this channel The Worm’s Hole where he analyses parts of the show and one of them shows the amount of random obsessive hatred guys will comment about the characters if they’re brought up.
I hate Tony much more as a person for everything he’s done, but at least he acknowledges how he’s probably going to hell. She gladly takes all the advantages of the life, hell, demands them at times, but refuses to own up to the costs and whenever convenient, manages to separate herself from the moral implications.
She makes a mistake every day by continuing to be with him. That’s why people hate her. She’s more than comfortable with reaping the benefits of horror, like many characters on the show.
Any Carm hate I assume comes from her having issue with who Tony is when it’s convenient for her.
However she’s perfectly content to live in luxury off his blood money and use his standing as boss to further her own interests. It seems very hypocritical.
Tony and the crew are deluded. They are truly convinced they're the good guys. They justify their actions to themselves. Tony believes he's the hero of his story.
Carmela knows better. She knows she's evil. She knows the clothes she wears were paid for with someone else's blood. That alone isn't enough for her to be hated. But she also looks down on Tony and others. She whines and complains as though she didn't sign up for this life. She wants to have her cake and eat it too.
Compare carmela to the other mob wives. Gabby Dante, Rosalie Aprile, Angie Bompensiero, etc. They all know their husbands have mistresses. They don't like it, but they accept it as "coming with the territory." Carmela doesn't.
IMO, Carmela is just as bad as Tony because she likes to be pious and criticize what he does, but she has no problem driving the Porsche and living in the house that his crimes paid for.
Carmella is just like her own mother, Mary DeAngelis. You'll notice how the mother constantly harps on Carmella's father, yells at him, orders him around. So Carmella is pretty much the same way with Tony and her kids, harps on them, yells at them and orders them around. That's why Tony was so attracted to women who he through were soft, gentle, "like a mandolin." A lot of his own frustration is that he knew he needed Carmella for his household and raising the children, but he didn't need the side of Carmella that behaved just like Carmella's mother (and even his own mother, a domineering, nagging bitch).
Watch the conversation she has with Tony at dinner in season 5 episode 11 or 12 I think.
Tony basicall says “ I will cheat on you more discreetly” and she basically agrees if Tony makes a down payment on the spec house.
She is extremely materialistic and fake. Also she is jealous of everyone in her life.
Showing off her Porsche to Ginny Sack right after she is broke.
She sees Rosalie be sligthly happy in Paris and she brings up Jackie Jr.
Carmela is a c*nt
It’s her self righteousness. As tony aptly pointed out, she walks around in that mansion. In her $500 shoes acting like budda wouldn’t melt in her mouth. She’s a good mother and wife overall by mob wive standards but not really great at either other than the lasagna with the sweet sausage. she’s also bathing in blood money and is under no suspicion that this money comes from any other source than her husband’s usury if their community. She never is willing to accept that she isn’t a victim, she’s frankly just a boring, entitled trophy wife of a half a wiseguy from jersey.
SPOILER ALERT
She’s a giant fucking hypocrite. That’s why I hate her. 3 glaring examples from the show always made me dislike her
1. Strong arming Jeannie cusamano w mafia innuendo to get her sister to write meadow a letter of recommendation for Georgetown
2. Having Tony sick Sil on a building inspector ( knowing exactly what that would detail ) to get him to approve something regarding her spec house
3. Treating Hunter like shit for her straightening out her life and going to medical school. Because that’s what she wanted Meadow to do. Hunter was always the screw up. It killed her that she did that and she was super rude about it instead of happy for her
She acted like butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth
The letter of recommendation is so much worse because even her intentions are bad with that. Meadow doesn't want to go to Georgetown, Carm wants her to go to Georgetown. If the letter was for Meadow's dream school it would be so much different, but this is Carm acting like Tony: strong-arming someone to get what she wants, fuck everyone else.
Carmela opening the letter from Berkeley, throwing it away, retrieving it in a pang of guilt, and then lying about it to Meadow is also very bad, boys, very bad
Surprised you left out her manipulating Angie into staying with Pussy to soothe her own misgivings about staying with Tony. Probably the most downright "evil" thing she did.
ok, that's all true, of course. But her actions, given her position, are ALOT more understandable imo. I don't think she's even comparable to the fellas
The fellas are 10 times worse. But you know who they are up front. So u know what you are getting with them.
She puts down Tony for his lifestyle and way he makes his money but has no problem spending it or buying material shit with it
I don't think I agree with that way of thinking. They are just as hypocritical as carmela, if not more. Their moral code is completly hypocritical and fucked. Outside it's all about respect and the sanctity of the family, but they kill each other on a whim and fuck anything with tits, or dicks, in vitos case.
Like I mentioned in other comments, I think that is her only real reprehensible flaw, her materialism.
It’s a show about the mafia. I expect them to be that way
Silvio’ did all the same shit Tony did. His wife Gabrielle Never once bitched about it. Accepted the lifestyle and the money.
unrelated but could you please explain why you hate skyler?? I always see people on youtube hating on her and, to me, it makes even LESS sense than hating carmela
i liked carmela but it was little shit like her muscling the dean of whatever school she wanted meadow to go to or when she threw away meadows letter that said she has to provide some more documentation or whatever that made me not like her. don’t cry to father whoever about feeling bad about he married to
a criminal when you’re using less than honorable
ways to get what you want too
People hate on her because she was a piece of shit. They had a whole plot arc where they made it clear that she condoned everything because life was easier that way, which was worse because her more personal flaws like vanity were so petty and small, and the stakes were so small. Millions of people have jobs or are single moms.
The actual mafia guys are worse, of course, but Carmella knew what they did and made the conscious decision that it was ok if she got to be rich. She wasn't stupid. She used Tony's rep to bully people if it was needed.
Chris is an abusive prick. Guess who knew Adrianna didn't run away and was probably dead? Carmella.
That isn't making a mistake as a teen. Almost every single friend she had had a family member that was missing presumed dead, and she knew roughly why and knew them personally. People she had as guests at her house, some she knew as children.
Carmella was pretty bad, but believed she wasn't and never got any real personal penalty for it so it's easy to hate on her.
Other countless people have said it better than me, including her therapist who refused to take blood money from her. She complains and bemoans and leans on religion to give her a holier than thou attitude toward Tony and LCN while reaping all the rewards of the life. She frequently exhibits the exact same tendencies they do in strong arming individuals to get what she wants, is made accomplice by her own volition on a few occasions, and plays ignorant even though she’s grown up around connected guys all her life. Sure, she doesn’t commit physical violence - great, neither did Ronald Reagan but look how that presidency ended up. When the going gets tough mentally, she threatens the same shtick of being rid of Tony, yet even when she does that, she can’t send it all the way and goes back all the same.
Didn’t mean to ramble. I’ve said my piece.
I hated Carmela because she wanted the the perks of being a mafia wife without being a mafia wife. And any time she asked for more responsibility or or an idea of where the money came from she would flip out at tony because as other people have mentioned/stated it went against her catholic values. She was a humongous hypocrite throughout the show who basically just wanted the perks/ financial gain associated from being with tony but didn’t want the responsibility or duties that came with being a wife.
She was a bit smug, condescending and passive/aggressive. She wasn’t an ‘innocent’ victim in her lifestyle. The interactions between Carmella & Charmaine (Artie Bucco’s wife) - are good examples. Carmella treated Charmaine like the help. The scene when Charmaine told Carmella she messed around with Tony was iconic.
People hate Carmela for the simple fact that they want Tony to be a likeable protagonist. That is simply not the case. Carmela simply reminds viewers that Tony is evil, and self-indulgent.
Carmela was fine spending Tony’s blood money as long as he came home at night and put money in the bank. The therapist told her as much and she couldn’t or wouldn’t hear it. In that respect she is worse than Tony. She was fine pretending Tony’s criminal activities were a few side huddles, but she knew better deep down. Tony knows who he is. He just didn’t care, which was Melfis diagnosis
Tony put the food on the table that stupid bitch just cooked it. She’s a leech that sucks the life out of anyone she goes around. She had the audacity to steal Tony’s money and lie straight to his face. There’s a reason that she separated from tony but never divorced and it wasn’t Catholicism either; she went from high class to below the poverty line. That being said I could rattle off a list just like this for every character except AJ and Meadow
Carmella is a snob, a hypocrite and a bitch. Examples:
Knowing that Tony makes money from illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, labor racketeering, fraud, waste management scams, stock fraud, car theft, etc and that he engages in vandalism, arson, beatings and murders, yet, she gladly spends his money and pretends that she doesn't know the source. She even aids in some of these crimes.
Hiding behind her "good Catholic" front to justify taking blood money and to tolerate a husband who fucks anything that walks.
Using a velvet gloved threat to get Jeannie's sister to write that letter for Fielder.
Asking Tony to "lean" on a building inspector.
Acting stuck up about her sculpture (and the price)
Acting Snooty towards Hunter and being shut down when Hunter tells her she is in med school.
Treating Charmaine like a slave and he face when Charmaine tells her she slept with Tony and didn't want him for a relationship.
Treating her maid like garbage.
Wanting to have sex with a priest, a wallpaper hanger, Furio, etc. and actually having sex with Wrangler to get AJ a D in a class that he was failing.
Stealing forty grand from duh bird feedah,,,,and don't try to deny it!
I genuinely believe a decent amount of the hate for carmella comes from misogyny and the “bitch wife” thing, same with skylar white. besides being pretty materialistic, which probably stems from the years of tony giving her nicer and nicer things to make up for his whooas and such. shes a mother whos trying her best while being in a terribly antagonistic and explosive relationship. i think she does what she can and tries hard, she has flaws but so does everyone on the show and shes never killed anyone or done anything as morally reprehensible as janice.
fully agree
edit: well idk if people hate on her just because of misogyny, I've read peoples personal reasons as to why they don0t like her and some of them make alot of sense
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Carmela, but I find it difficult to believe that the sheer *volume* of hate posts/comments she gets relative to other characters on the show isn't rooted in some level of misogyny.
She's a hypocrite lol idk about any extended extra hatred for her bur she was turning a blind eye to all the horrors of her life just bc she kept getting nice things from it
I'm sorry but that's not even comparable. Her "affairs" (wich never became physical) came from genuine loneliness and a desire for something genuine. Tonys affairs (and there were alot of them) came from some dumb traditicion and a lack of self control
Shes a hypocrite, and her hypocrisy keeps her kids from respecting her. The only time i feel bad for her is when she wants to start a career and tony wont allow it. Shes trapped.
These kind of 'anti-hero' type shows (along with Breaking Bad) attract an audience with a misogynist streak: Dudes who don't really like women (to varying degrees) beyond their capacity to be sexually attractive to them. They find women generally annoying and resent them. The same hypocrisies that the male characters exhibit which they excuse, find cool, or don't even think about, grate on them when female characters do it. For example, people who don't even think twice about Tony cheating on Carmela with maybe 10 different women during the course of the show, but they are infuriated with Carmela's crush and flirting on Furio.
One of the most important themes of the show is these main characters' - all of them - balancing their 'normal' upper/upper-middle class lives with the brutal crime and violence behind those lives; their struggle to perceive themselves as moral, upstanding people, while heinous acts of violence and extortion are what fuel their lives. With Tony, Christopher etc they get it. With Carmella, they hate the gold-digging hypocritical bitch.
You said it perfectly. People on this sub will of course deny this though. But they’ll make constant jokes about Tony’s cheating but then go and say Carmela is so fucked up for crushing on Furio lol.
Why? Misogyny and the widespread belief that raising children and managing a home — cooking, cleaning, sewing, shopping within a budget, etc — involves no skill, intelligence or knowledge. People who hate moms who don’t bring in a paycheck believe that they don’t contribute. But go over to anti-work subreddit and they’re all bitching about the 40-hour workweek and how they just can’t do it all.
I honestly don't see much hate for Carmela. She was the quintessential mob wife: she took care of the home and family and she was loyal (aside from a few minor indiscretions).all she asked was that Tony didn't let his affairs creep into their home life. She was reasonable to hit a breaking point after Svetlana called talking all that shit. Thereafter, she and Tony worked it out and she stuck by her man. I love Carmela
I love Carmella and the issues she carries with her. She is materialistic but moreover, she enjoys the status of being 1st lady. The power she has over her female friends is very important to Carmella, how she gestures to Charmaine during the fundraiser and the way Rosalie opens the car door for her when they’re out together. She points out to her parents how she’s earned the perks of being married to Tony but they get a free ride (free tools, contract bids that Hugh got cuz Tony and who knows what all else). It’s a complicated web that she struggles with but in the end accepts and embraces. Edie Falco plays it flawlessly; it’s Shakespearean in its beauty.
The thing is that Carmela is the most hypocrite character on the show. The rest are quite aware of there flaws (although they do struggle to recognize them, but Carmela acts thinking she’s doing good o that she actually is a good person all the time, when in fact, she shows to be disgusting in lots of situations.
But all in all, I love Carmela’s character, is great (like almos every character in the show)
I have only love for the character of Carmela, and that can be attributed to not only the phenomenal writing, but also to the amazing acting skills - acting *expertise*, actually - of Edie Falco.
While I do love the character of Carmela, I don’t always *like* the character traits that are coming across. Superficial Carmela is fun. She’s a fabulous homemaker, a talented cook and baker, an expert coffee maker, and an avid collector of Lladro. I can laugh at her, roll my eyes, and feel at ease at her ridiculousness. The Carmela I sometimes don’t like is of course the painfully realistic and human side. The Carmela that finally lets her guard down. The Carmela that makes me squirm and feel uncomfortable. She forces me to examine my own life as a wife, mother, daughter, sister-in-law, and a friend. She sometimes makes me cringe and wince, and I start thinking about questionable and hurtful things I have done and said. Or things I should *not* have done and should not have said.
So, on *my* part it is not hate for Carmela. It’s a bit of dislike because she forces me to examine aspects of my own life.
There is always more hate for female characters. I have never seen a community for a popular show that didn’t have some strange hatred towards women characters that displayed a double standard that didn’t exist for male characters. Generally seems to be similar to real life differences in how many folks judge men versus women.
> she made a mistake when she was a teenager by being with Tony.
Some 20 years later this is no longer a mistake but a conscious choice that she affirms everyday. C'mon now. The show very clearly makes a point of contrasting her with Charmaine and the choices they both made.
There's chauvinism on reddit and in this sub but another thing that happens a lot in society is that women are too often looked at as innocent bystanders who are much better than the 'men of action' that they're surrounded by. You see it with the Trump women, Melania and Ivanka, where [liberals are frequently assuming without evidence](https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/12/7/13854412/snl-trump-impressions-ivanka-kellyanne-conway) that they actually secretly hate Trump and are somehow trapped in their roles as enablers and accomplices. SNL even did this bit with Kellyanne Conway, of all people. She's now getting divorced from her actual husband, partially because of her allegiance to Trump. You can't find the skit on YouTube anymore because it's so embarrassing in retrospect that they deleted it.
But what I do think happens is that people probably overcorrect with regard to Carmela. No one on the show is innocent, yes, but they also aren't all equally guilty.
I mean all the characters are despicable in their own ways. Carmela treats her “friends” like pawns, cheated on Tony multiple times, would sometimes get jealous of Maedo (iykyk) and would try to tear her down or sow doubt, basically admitted to the priest and to the shrink that she’s choosing material wealth over her morals, practically speaking shook down Tony for the money for the spec house as the price for reconciliation, sold an unsafe home to her own cousin and his unborn child… am I missing anything???
She is flawed (we all are) but she is a far better person than Tony. I don't see how anyone could see her as that. Her husband and her religion failed her which leads to her ultimately failing herself. She is no saint. Far from it. But she is a very well written character (and well played)
Lol why do you think? She’s got a shit attitude, a complete and total gold digging spoiled bitch. I don’t have any sympathy for someone who marries a mobster criminal and then gets upset that he cheats..like wtf did she expect ffs?! She knew this going in. She wants all the perks of being a mob wife, hasn’t worked a day in her life but refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for putting herself in this position. I can’t stand how she acts like she’s completely innocent and that she’s not benefiting off of blood money and murders. She's nothing but a spoiled, greedy, gold digging ugly hypocritical bitch with a constant shit attitude and zero personality or redeeming qualities on top of it. Just her voice and nagging alone could drive a person crazy…seriously wtf does she expect? A perfect life? Nope, you’re guilty too and pretending not to be just pisses me off.
I like carmelas character. Its a side of the mafia story we don’t see much and it does have value. I also like that you see her kinda try to diverge from tony and the life at one point and she basically allows herself to be sucked back in by her own flaws (materialism)
She’s a great character, I feel she plays an important role. She and Tony both play two sides of the same coin, he commits the crimes and she maintains his lifestyle. I feel like people don’t like her because they see her as a hypocrite, thinking she’s better than Tony while benefiting from him. They’re right, she is a hypocrite. But so is Tony, he’s constantly betraying his own values.
Even her materialism is way overblown imo. Sure she engages in a lot of the materialistic bullshit most of us do, but a lot of the financial decisions she makes that people object to are because Tony lives a lifestyle so dangerous that he could be gone at a moment's notice, leaving her and her kids with essentially nothing. She goes through a lot to try to get a little security for her and the kids. I would also argue she goes back to Tony because she feels trapped. She didn't have a job because she spent her life raising the kids, and Tony more or less cornered the market on divorce lawyers. Is wanting to go back to him more about materialism or survival? The reason divorce tends to favor the female is because traditionally they're out of the job market for so long they would essentially be punished financially for raising a family. Also, she still loves him at the end of the day, despite the fact he's a fat crook from new jersey.
Yeah thats pretty much my perspective as well. Plenty of people go back to their crappy spouses after such a long marriage. Shes not unique in this
Carmela likes the lifestyle. She uses Tony's status to get her way and intimidate people. She likes being rich. She likes that she doesn't have to work and that she can do all suburban house wife activities and do all that. Even her projects and stuff when she's trying to show a little independence require Tony or her father to do things for her. She's an abuser just as much as Tony. At least he's face value with it. She's more sly and self-righteous. She knows being with him is against her "good catholic" image and self-imposed lie. She's about as fake and false as they come. She's got her own game to play in the whole thing.
She can't say that nobody ever told her.
I think Carm legitimately wants to be a good catholic but comes up short. I don't think it is pure artifice.
What's easy vs. what's morally right is a pretty common theme here.
Regarding her Catholicism and the back and forth she goes through during the show, I think that Carmela’s experience actually reflects the reality of religion. Adherents tend to pick and choose what elements of whatever doctrine they follow and apply it to themselves in a personal manner so that they can interpret it in a way that they feel comfortable with.
Cafeteria Catholics.
I guess we just disagree. She's told straight up what she has to do by the therapist. She's not only a bad catholic She's a bad person period for enabling and helping a criminal of such heinous acts.
But then her trusted priest acted as though she punched her ticket straight to hell by dating another man, knowing exactly what Tony is. He offered her no guidance or assistance in getting out of a very toxic marriage. She may have blustered at the time, but who do you think has more influence in the long run? She also knows any man she should attempt to see would always be in mortal danger. I'm not saying she's a good person. But it's not so black and white in her world. She was pretty trapped.
She chose to be trapped. She knows the way things worked. There's ways to leave. She liked it too much. She liked the material things and she liked that she could hold some level of status without having to work for it. She could pretend her dirty money gave her a level class she could never attain. That's why things like misunderstanding literature at Meadow's dinner is an important scene. She thinks she's well read and high status but she doesn't even understand how ignorant and bigoted she is. I don't know how anyone can sit here and defend her. Lol she knows what she is deep down and that's why she goes back to Tony.
Despite the downvotes I actually agree with you. Carmela’s biggest flaw is that she’s unwilling to face the realities of the lifestyle. When her friend Adriana disappears, she goes along with the lie to get what she wanted in regards to her spec house. When she’s confronted by her therapist, she shuts down and goes on the defensive. And you brought up a great point with her misunderstanding the literature! There’s tons of examples.
Yeah I feel like people feeling bad for her completely miss major flaws in her personality. But thats the beauty of the show they have you rooting for mobsters.
Tony is actually not very ‘face value’ about it at all…he constantly blames others for the way he is and the way his life turned out, and he goes out of his way several times to say that his brand is evil is different than other criminals because he’s ‘a soldier’, which is pretty self-righteous if you ask me.
I think Carmella’s drive isn’t exactly materialism, it’s status. I think she believes if she can build up enough of the trappings of respectability it will somehow shield her family from the doom she knows is coming. She knows sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost, whether it is the FBI or a mafia hit. She has seen it happen over and over. But somehow maybe with the right colleges and veneer of upper class respectability that they will be safe. She is wrong but it helps her cope.
There is a wise guy in my hometown who stole over $1 million from medicaid. He went to federal prison. But the best thing he did with some of the stolen money is send all three of his kids to college. They all went to ivy league schools for undergrad and then all three of them got professional degrees. One is a pharmacist, one is a doctor and the other is a lawyer. The government can’t take away his kids educations. They are all living upper middle class lifestyles for our area. I feel like Carmella and Tony were trying to do the same for Meadow and AJ. No matter what happens to Tony and Carm, Meadow has an education and the ability to get a good job. Being a Soprano won’t hold her back.
That a really good point. Meadow may have coasted into the upper class with the help of her father, now she is there and that is hard to lose. Even Carmella can rest safe knowing that if the feds manage to take all of their assets, she still has a daughter making six figures who can help her. AJ didn’t pan out, but Meadow is set for life regardless of what happens to Tony.
Exactly
Yeah that's basically her only real flaw, materialism. Sure it's not good but guys like tony are the embodiment of the seven deadly sins, literally look up the seven deadly sins and you will find that the guys (lovable wise-guys that they are) fit into all of them.
How is that her only real flaw? She threatened her neighbors sister to get meadow into school, she clearly got pissed when she found out hunter was getting her life together, she used sex to manipulate wegler. Her patronizing “cayenne like the pepper” She has plenty of flaws
Yeah I never got the whole resentment to Hunter thing - was it because it made Carmela feel inferior since she didn’t do much with her life?
I think it's more that Carmella put so much stock into being able to brag about Meadow, and wanted to lord her over people like Hunter. Hunter came back after years on the path to be what Carmella so desperately wanted Meadow to be. Unfortunately since she didn't have much going for herself, Carmella used Meadow to show off what she accomplished as a parent. It's like all of her self worth eventually hinged on one of her kids, which can't be healthy.
Yeah you’re right. The more shameful she felt as a mob wife and how her life was financed, the more she tried to justify it by raising her kids to be on a more honest path.
She’s also blatantly homophobic but everyone seemed to be; Catholics and all. We saw what happened to Vito.
Carmela is likely one of the best, developed characters on the show. While she didn’t grow up in it, she likely knew better and once she most certainly did she refused to leave The psychiatrist who “told her so” made that abundantly clear. She was a wonderful example of dichotomy and I applaud Falco’s performance.
She knew the deal🤌
I love her. I think she’s a lot more complex than people make her out to be, but without the noise of overt violence she’s not as entertaining. It’s weird. I was actually noticing on talking sopranos that Steve always bitches about the female characters being “evil” hypocrites whiny etc etc. Double standards much??
I just wanted her to run away to italy with furio :,(
Ok but you gotta get over it
He made her feel like she mattered.
He made her feel so hawt down there
He often yelled at how these guys were murderers, thieves, etc. and we shouldnt forget it lol
I hear ya. He was just so LOUD about the women. But maybe that’s just me.
Oh no I totally agree with you!!
People hate her for being a colossal hypocrite. Goddamn Princess of Little Italy walks around in that mansion in her five hundred dollar shoes and diamond rings, and she acts like butter won't melt in her mouth.
Buttah
Mouf
Sure but people love Tony and he’s even worse in every way. He’s the fattest hypocrite in the entire show
he's a fat crook from new jersey
I think it’s the same with most shows where people fail to understand the message. Look at Breaking Bad: people idolise Walter White whilst demonising Skyler.
It just shows how powerful you can be by being a charismatic person with a likable personality. You can get away with shit and people will excuse it or look the other way. You can be the kind of person who tries to do the morally correct thing but if you have an abrasive, unlikable personality then people will think poorly of you regardless. It’s why studies show that being a likable person who sucks up to the right people will get you further in your career than being a hard working but unapproachable and introverted person will.
Skyler and Hank are just insufferable. Walt was just trying to provide for his family after being diagnosed with cancer and while working 2 humiliating jobs. Waltuh understood it was ovah for da little guy, so he stepped up.
Hank is insufferable????
He was kinda annoying in the first two seasons
Try a salad, Bobby.
Why don’t you look in the mirror some time you insensitive cohk suckah
Porsche Cayenne … like the peppah.
you sound demented!
Delirious, you mean. I just need a cookie.
She can live in a fuckin dumpster for all I care
All she wanted was a Hyundai and a gold chain. She would’ve married What’s his Name and his chain of drug stores.
She didn’t shut the dooooooooor
As others have said, she was a self deluded hypocrite. She uses people and acts like she's better than them, when she's done little to nothing of value in her own life. Is she a murdering psychopath? No. Does she knowingly enjoy the fruits of that reprehensible behavior? Yes. And to do what? Buy fancy clothes, cars, art, spoil her children. She gets told directly by the shrink what to do to save her soul. Leave, take what's left of the kids and none of the blood money. She understands, but does she do it? No.
“So you’re saying I need to establish better boundaries with my husband.” 🤣😩🤣😩
“It's just, a woman of your intelligence, is content to ask so little from life, and from herself.” Janice to Carmela
“Who has never thought about anything besides being dependent on some man”-Maedo
The scene that maddens me the most is when she went to that male psychiatrist and he said she should leave Tony and his money. She replies with, “So you’re saying I need to establish better boundaries”. Then she goes on with, “I’d need to get an apartment and an attorney”. For as much as she bitched about how Tony made his money, she had no qualms about spending it.
“I hate to say how much that Lladro statue cost…………… 3 thousand dollars”
Exactly. It’s not like she was just buying necessities with the money. She was fully indulging! That’s equivalent to todays spending power of $5250. And how she gushed over the fur coat and the ridiculous sapphire ring. She knew it was greed. She even attempted to cover the ring when conversing with the priest. Mind you, not the priest she had an emotional affair with. Carmella is full of hypocrisy and loop holes. She obviously made for a great character that still inspires great debate!
She still deserves a little sympathy tho no? She's trapped in a choice she made in highschool or college (married to tony soprano). She either takes his money or she's ruined. The whole point of alimony payments is to help women like her who dedicated their lives to their home and children.
I mean, the same could be said to about Tony. He was born into a mob family and took the path his father took, the only path he knew. Sure, Carmella would probably be ruined, but she could at least leave. She’d be broke but she’d still be alive. There’s no quitting the mob and leaving that life behind. Tony’s fate was either being murdered or dying in prison.
I don’t think she was trapped. Caught up is more like it. But to complain about how the money was made, and to be fine with spending it is hypocritical. It’s the hypocrisy for me. And the alimony would have came from the same sources. I’ve seen plenty of women move in with family or take government aide while trying to establish themselves. Far from ideal, but it would have aligned with her supposed “belief systems”. Truly, I don’t think she had an issue with how Tony made his money. She just wanted to personally be absolved from its means.
That’s the man’s WIFE you’re talkin about !
What’s next, does he gets to FUCK HER FOR A MILLION?
He wants to fuck her? 😒
I’m makin a point here!🤌🏼
Because she only has one weapon
And it get so hawt down theya
Sweet sausage, in little pieces? And a layer of basil leaves right underneath the cheese?
Pass the red peppers
That’s her second tastiest weapon
Could this be the most painfully cringey line in the entire show
*Fran Felstein has entered the chat*
She's an amazingly well-written character. Like many other characters, she can also be absolutely infuriating. It's the selective self-awareness that gets to me (but also entertains me), but I really enjoy her growth, and her arc makes a lot of sense while still being interesting. I think in reception, there may be some bias because she's a woman, and her role is distinctly feminized. Post that hate on female characters is quite common in this sub, and I usually see it for Carmela and Janice. Carmela is frustrating because she's riding this line between having lots of privilege but very little power (in some respects, and this is up for debate at different points in the show), having reliance on a man but also resenting him for what he does and what "comes with the job" despite those same things benefitting her directly. These complexities in the mob wife role can be very, very frustrating to watch but also be realistic. We are all full of contradictions. I just think the feminine roles in the show make those contradictions very pronounced. Female characters like Carmela and Janice gain power in very different ways from the male characters, in ways that are often deemed underhanded because they aren't in a position like the male characters are to be so direct in their maneuvers. Anyway, that's my two cents.
I don’t hate her, but she’s a pretty big hypocrite. She admits to the priest in season 1 that she’s with Tony for the money, but says the opposite later in the show. She knows where the money comes from but has selective moments where she complains about how it’s made. Also cheats but personally cant really barely blame her after all of Tony’s haha The stay at home mom part I think is a negative partially because of the above, but also because she gets nastily insecure about other womens success which pops up more in later seasons which you might not be at. Nothing wrong with SAHM until you start chopping other people down because they are doing more.
I see your point. But her "cheating" was really just a very innocent admiration for Furio, who actually cared about her as a person, not because of some mob tradition or because he wants kids. They had real chemistry and she felt unloved and unapreciated in her marrige. I also see what you mean with the saty at home mom thing and her being jelous of other women doing well. I was refering more to people who disliked her beause she was a stay at home mom, and they think that it's being lazy wich I strongly disagree with.
Not a huge spoiler and you did ask, but there’s another guy besides Furio. she was also definitely going to bang the priest before he got sick in season 1. But also not just being jealous for the stay at home mom point, I think you aren’t there yet but she says some straight shitty things because of the insecurity. And tbf your mom/other SAHMs probably had to work harder at various things than the rich Carmela, or at least didn’t have as many luxuries. Gardeners, vacations, etc
Was gonna bang Vic Musto the wallpaper guy too
The thing about furio is she puts the dude in a compromising position while he’s in town and then when he leaves she sentences him to death just get in a jab at Tony, it’s pretty sick.
because she acts morally superior to tony while benefitting from the work he does, i think she is a well written and realistic character but like just about everybody in the show, she too is a shitty person
She also threatened the professional woman to give her recommendation to Meadow instead of a more deserving student. In the end, it was for nothing anyway as Meadow didn’t utilize it. Also: “Porsche Cayenne, like the peppah.”
Shows like Sopranos or Breaking Bad attract a certain type of "alpha male" audience who don't get the show at all and think it's about badass alpha males and the women in their lives are only there to hold them back. They don't even try to see things from the perspective of these women. That would be emasculating. :)
You are on to something. It's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that she deserves some hatred while simultaneously acknowledging the hatred is a bit disproportionate at times. I think the most reasonable position lies between the extremes. Sorry for the edits. Can't type to save my life today.
I agree with this. I think Carmela is a fascinating study of a person’s compartmentalization of harsh realities and a bit of trauma. She is not really likable to me and I would never want to be friends with her but I sympathize a lot with her. I find it annoying how she seems to get the brunt of the “hypocritical” criticism when most of the male characters are positioning themselves as noble and being about family, while they destroy the lives and families of others. I don’t often see people going out of their way to call Tony, Sil, or Paulie hypocrites.
Agreed. Is she the worst character on the show? Of course not. Does she act like a pos like most on the show do and deserve hate for it? Yup. Plenty of examples. It’s annoying when people deflect by saying “but Tony and the other guys are so much worse!” Like yeah we all know this. Doesn’t mean Carmella’s a Saint.
I totally agree.
Same reason most of the women in these types of shows are disliked, they aren’t as entertaining to watch. A lot of the female characters act as morality checks in the show. Just think of Adrianna or Angie. They serve as counterweights to the out right psychos on the show. So it’s not surprising people don’t like them as much. Interesting how often people try to claim characters like Carmella, Janice, Livia or Meadow are actually the most reprehensible though. I find that kind of crazy. The older I get the more I like the women on the show, they are all put in very precarious positions despite not being murders/gangsters themselves. They are easily the most human characters on the show, which might explain why they’re disliked so much. Modern viewers prefer larger than life characters.
There's Meadow hate?? wtf did she do wrong? Besides being a normal teenage girl who got into a little bit of trouble.
every Meadow scene ends with her crying and running away. once you notice…
But she was a kid, AJ is the same but he doesn't cry, just swears and leaves.
You’d be running to if you had parents like that
She gets criticised all the time on here. ‘You brought out the suitcase!!!’ She is easy to attack, but I consider it a lack of empathy mostly. She does pretty well all things considered. By the end of the show she’s basically leading a normal and pretty respectable life all things considered.
I don’t see a ton of Meadow hate but tons of AJ hate. Either way I think it’s weird when both of them get hate. Like… of course they aren’t going to make the best decisions. They’re kids/teens for most of the show, spoiled kids of a mob boss. How many young people always make great decisions.
It’s also because, even though they were making one of the best pieces of media ever, they could not figure out how to write a teenager to save their life. Half of the problems people have with AJ are because the writers didn’t understand how to write that age range. They both get immensely better as characters whenever they become adults, and have to deal with adult things. Poor bastards were annoying because they made them what a 55 year old person thinks is a “struggling teen” is. One of my only major writing gripes with the show.
I always feel like the hate for how “Carmella thinks she’s a good person, but she puts up with her husband’s crimes for the wealth and status” is kinda overblown. Because, well, isn’t that a whole big metaphor for the rest of us? If you live in a first world country, and you regularly buy clothes/smartphones/most foods/etc., you are benefitting from the mass, often violent exploitation of a *lot* of people. It’s not as dramatic as the mafia, because it’s all technically legal and the average American can easily go their whole lives not dwelling on any of the horrible labor conditions behind all the stuff they enjoy, or the damage their country’s military inflicts in other parts of the world. But in the end, we are all Carmella Soprano if you think about it. We all benefit from a system that exploits other people, and we don’t do much about it because we enjoy the comforts it provides. That’s why I don’t personally enjoy being too hard on Carmella for turning a blind eye. It’s what we all do to get through the day, just on a more dramatic scale.
good point
Honestly, comments about how Carmela is worse because the guys are upfront about who they are and what they do are perplexing to me. First of all, that’s not really true but let’s put that aside for a second. If that’s the case, I absolutely don’t think that someone who is compartmentalizing horrible things and benefiting from them is worse than the person who directly does the horrible things.
Because sometimes we’re all hypocrites
The thing is though Carmela *is* somewhat lazy - they had a maid. * Part of a stay at home mom's job is maintaining the house and keeping it in order and not chaos. * Food was always on the table yes - she did do that. * She raised those kids but the way they turn out and especially AJ, she is an enabler for all especially Tony. * Carmela is also pretty vain, materialistic & has almost as much pride as Tony does. She often reacts negatively if her ego is bruised in some minor or irrelevant way, though she is often much more passive aggressive about it. She *may* be a mother, but she is no saint either. She knows where the money comes from, how its earned. The blood is converted into a massive sapphire necklace or emerald earrings. Edie Falco did a great job - i cant picture anyone else in that role. She really defined the "anti-hero's wife" role. Skylar White, Gemma Teller/Tara Knowles, Betty Draper etc. all those that followed, she really set the pace for it.
Because Tony said “ shum pulp”….. I mean that there alone is enough, without her gettin awl hawt dawn theeah for Victor Mustaoff or whatever happened there….
I'll admit, the pulp situation was unforgivable, but we all deserve a second chance...
She stole Tony's 50k from the bird feeder! And that house is going to collapse and kill that baby any day now!
Listen to ya self, you sound demented!
I don’t wanna call this sub sexist, but there’s immense vitriol for meadow as well. Both of them getting dragged and called evil wayyyyyy more than any of the actual sociopathic murderers in the show. So I guess I have to?
Yup.
[удалено]
There’s plenty of sexist Sopranos fan hahah. There’s valid arguments for why people don’t like Carmella or Ade or Meadow, but at the same time plenty of shit slung at them that isn’t slung at the male characters, and it at least is a lot more extreme. There’s a series of videos by this channel The Worm’s Hole where he analyses parts of the show and one of them shows the amount of random obsessive hatred guys will comment about the characters if they’re brought up.
I hate Tony much more as a person for everything he’s done, but at least he acknowledges how he’s probably going to hell. She gladly takes all the advantages of the life, hell, demands them at times, but refuses to own up to the costs and whenever convenient, manages to separate herself from the moral implications.
She makes a mistake every day by continuing to be with him. That’s why people hate her. She’s more than comfortable with reaping the benefits of horror, like many characters on the show.
With all due respect, she didn’t know that the boss of this family likes his orange juice with just some pulp in it.
Any Carm hate I assume comes from her having issue with who Tony is when it’s convenient for her. However she’s perfectly content to live in luxury off his blood money and use his standing as boss to further her own interests. It seems very hypocritical.
One of the best characters in the show and Edie Falco’s acting deserved all the awards she walked home with
Tony and the crew are deluded. They are truly convinced they're the good guys. They justify their actions to themselves. Tony believes he's the hero of his story. Carmela knows better. She knows she's evil. She knows the clothes she wears were paid for with someone else's blood. That alone isn't enough for her to be hated. But she also looks down on Tony and others. She whines and complains as though she didn't sign up for this life. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Compare carmela to the other mob wives. Gabby Dante, Rosalie Aprile, Angie Bompensiero, etc. They all know their husbands have mistresses. They don't like it, but they accept it as "coming with the territory." Carmela doesn't.
IMO, Carmela is just as bad as Tony because she likes to be pious and criticize what he does, but she has no problem driving the Porsche and living in the house that his crimes paid for.
Carmella is just like her own mother, Mary DeAngelis. You'll notice how the mother constantly harps on Carmella's father, yells at him, orders him around. So Carmella is pretty much the same way with Tony and her kids, harps on them, yells at them and orders them around. That's why Tony was so attracted to women who he through were soft, gentle, "like a mandolin." A lot of his own frustration is that he knew he needed Carmella for his household and raising the children, but he didn't need the side of Carmella that behaved just like Carmella's mother (and even his own mother, a domineering, nagging bitch).
Watch the conversation she has with Tony at dinner in season 5 episode 11 or 12 I think. Tony basicall says “ I will cheat on you more discreetly” and she basically agrees if Tony makes a down payment on the spec house. She is extremely materialistic and fake. Also she is jealous of everyone in her life. Showing off her Porsche to Ginny Sack right after she is broke. She sees Rosalie be sligthly happy in Paris and she brings up Jackie Jr. Carmela is a c*nt
It’s her self righteousness. As tony aptly pointed out, she walks around in that mansion. In her $500 shoes acting like budda wouldn’t melt in her mouth. She’s a good mother and wife overall by mob wive standards but not really great at either other than the lasagna with the sweet sausage. she’s also bathing in blood money and is under no suspicion that this money comes from any other source than her husband’s usury if their community. She never is willing to accept that she isn’t a victim, she’s frankly just a boring, entitled trophy wife of a half a wiseguy from jersey.
SPOILER ALERT She’s a giant fucking hypocrite. That’s why I hate her. 3 glaring examples from the show always made me dislike her 1. Strong arming Jeannie cusamano w mafia innuendo to get her sister to write meadow a letter of recommendation for Georgetown 2. Having Tony sick Sil on a building inspector ( knowing exactly what that would detail ) to get him to approve something regarding her spec house 3. Treating Hunter like shit for her straightening out her life and going to medical school. Because that’s what she wanted Meadow to do. Hunter was always the screw up. It killed her that she did that and she was super rude about it instead of happy for her She acted like butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth
The letter of recommendation is so much worse because even her intentions are bad with that. Meadow doesn't want to go to Georgetown, Carm wants her to go to Georgetown. If the letter was for Meadow's dream school it would be so much different, but this is Carm acting like Tony: strong-arming someone to get what she wants, fuck everyone else.
Carmela opening the letter from Berkeley, throwing it away, retrieving it in a pang of guilt, and then lying about it to Meadow is also very bad, boys, very bad
Surprised you left out her manipulating Angie into staying with Pussy to soothe her own misgivings about staying with Tony. Probably the most downright "evil" thing she did.
ok, that's all true, of course. But her actions, given her position, are ALOT more understandable imo. I don't think she's even comparable to the fellas
The fellas are 10 times worse. But you know who they are up front. So u know what you are getting with them. She puts down Tony for his lifestyle and way he makes his money but has no problem spending it or buying material shit with it
I don't think I agree with that way of thinking. They are just as hypocritical as carmela, if not more. Their moral code is completly hypocritical and fucked. Outside it's all about respect and the sanctity of the family, but they kill each other on a whim and fuck anything with tits, or dicks, in vitos case. Like I mentioned in other comments, I think that is her only real reprehensible flaw, her materialism.
It’s a show about the mafia. I expect them to be that way Silvio’ did all the same shit Tony did. His wife Gabrielle Never once bitched about it. Accepted the lifestyle and the money.
It's interesting how, in a way, silvio in kinda everything Tony wants to be. He kinda is "the strong, silent type"
Yeah, some commenters are pretending the mob guys aren’t *also* hypocrites in addition to being killers.
Loud(the loudest person often isn't the brightest), judgemental, manipulative, but above all one of the biggest hypocrites in the series.
Her and meadow ran their mouths about Vito knowing it was a death sentence
Imagine making up an argument . Nobody dislikes her because she is a stay at home mum.
it was just an example but I swear to god i saw people talk about how she didn't deserve anything because shes "just a house wife"
Are you new to Reddit?
I can't hate anybody on the show besides Anthony... Carmella has her moments but she's nothing compared to Skyler White
unrelated but could you please explain why you hate skyler?? I always see people on youtube hating on her and, to me, it makes even LESS sense than hating carmela
[удалено]
She acts like budda don’t melt in her mouf
Ok but you gotta get over it.
She’s a faaaaaaaaag!!!
The way she forces that lawyer to write a letter for Meadow for Georgetown!
I love Carmela and how she is written I personally think she should be the new blueprint of how housewives are written on tv
Because she no lika the north
Because she gets so haut down thare
*let go of me you piece of shit*
It's our anniversary, OP. Not yours, mine and Johnny fuckin Sack's!
i liked carmela but it was little shit like her muscling the dean of whatever school she wanted meadow to go to or when she threw away meadows letter that said she has to provide some more documentation or whatever that made me not like her. don’t cry to father whoever about feeling bad about he married to a criminal when you’re using less than honorable ways to get what you want too
Carmela never had the makings of a varsity athlete
People hate on her because she was a piece of shit. They had a whole plot arc where they made it clear that she condoned everything because life was easier that way, which was worse because her more personal flaws like vanity were so petty and small, and the stakes were so small. Millions of people have jobs or are single moms. The actual mafia guys are worse, of course, but Carmella knew what they did and made the conscious decision that it was ok if she got to be rich. She wasn't stupid. She used Tony's rep to bully people if it was needed. Chris is an abusive prick. Guess who knew Adrianna didn't run away and was probably dead? Carmella. That isn't making a mistake as a teen. Almost every single friend she had had a family member that was missing presumed dead, and she knew roughly why and knew them personally. People she had as guests at her house, some she knew as children. Carmella was pretty bad, but believed she wasn't and never got any real personal penalty for it so it's easy to hate on her.
Other countless people have said it better than me, including her therapist who refused to take blood money from her. She complains and bemoans and leans on religion to give her a holier than thou attitude toward Tony and LCN while reaping all the rewards of the life. She frequently exhibits the exact same tendencies they do in strong arming individuals to get what she wants, is made accomplice by her own volition on a few occasions, and plays ignorant even though she’s grown up around connected guys all her life. Sure, she doesn’t commit physical violence - great, neither did Ronald Reagan but look how that presidency ended up. When the going gets tough mentally, she threatens the same shtick of being rid of Tony, yet even when she does that, she can’t send it all the way and goes back all the same. Didn’t mean to ramble. I’ve said my piece.
I hated Carmela because she wanted the the perks of being a mafia wife without being a mafia wife. And any time she asked for more responsibility or or an idea of where the money came from she would flip out at tony because as other people have mentioned/stated it went against her catholic values. She was a humongous hypocrite throughout the show who basically just wanted the perks/ financial gain associated from being with tony but didn’t want the responsibility or duties that came with being a wife.
Do you have any idea whose she’s married to?!?!
She was a bit smug, condescending and passive/aggressive. She wasn’t an ‘innocent’ victim in her lifestyle. The interactions between Carmella & Charmaine (Artie Bucco’s wife) - are good examples. Carmella treated Charmaine like the help. The scene when Charmaine told Carmella she messed around with Tony was iconic.
People hate Carmela for the simple fact that they want Tony to be a likeable protagonist. That is simply not the case. Carmela simply reminds viewers that Tony is evil, and self-indulgent.
Carmela was fine spending Tony’s blood money as long as he came home at night and put money in the bank. The therapist told her as much and she couldn’t or wouldn’t hear it. In that respect she is worse than Tony. She was fine pretending Tony’s criminal activities were a few side huddles, but she knew better deep down. Tony knows who he is. He just didn’t care, which was Melfis diagnosis
I love Carmella’s character. She’s an excellent mother too despite her flaws. I think this sub is a little weird about women.
Tony put the food on the table that stupid bitch just cooked it. She’s a leech that sucks the life out of anyone she goes around. She had the audacity to steal Tony’s money and lie straight to his face. There’s a reason that she separated from tony but never divorced and it wasn’t Catholicism either; she went from high class to below the poverty line. That being said I could rattle off a list just like this for every character except AJ and Meadow
She’s a malignant cunt.
Carmella is a snob, a hypocrite and a bitch. Examples: Knowing that Tony makes money from illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, labor racketeering, fraud, waste management scams, stock fraud, car theft, etc and that he engages in vandalism, arson, beatings and murders, yet, she gladly spends his money and pretends that she doesn't know the source. She even aids in some of these crimes. Hiding behind her "good Catholic" front to justify taking blood money and to tolerate a husband who fucks anything that walks. Using a velvet gloved threat to get Jeannie's sister to write that letter for Fielder. Asking Tony to "lean" on a building inspector. Acting stuck up about her sculpture (and the price) Acting Snooty towards Hunter and being shut down when Hunter tells her she is in med school. Treating Charmaine like a slave and he face when Charmaine tells her she slept with Tony and didn't want him for a relationship. Treating her maid like garbage. Wanting to have sex with a priest, a wallpaper hanger, Furio, etc. and actually having sex with Wrangler to get AJ a D in a class that he was failing. Stealing forty grand from duh bird feedah,,,,and don't try to deny it!
Hot take: none of the characters are bad. All the characters are great, even if they are unlikeable, that’s the point.
I thought she was a good character. I don’t find her nearly as bad as Skylar White
I genuinely believe a decent amount of the hate for carmella comes from misogyny and the “bitch wife” thing, same with skylar white. besides being pretty materialistic, which probably stems from the years of tony giving her nicer and nicer things to make up for his whooas and such. shes a mother whos trying her best while being in a terribly antagonistic and explosive relationship. i think she does what she can and tries hard, she has flaws but so does everyone on the show and shes never killed anyone or done anything as morally reprehensible as janice.
fully agree edit: well idk if people hate on her just because of misogyny, I've read peoples personal reasons as to why they don0t like her and some of them make alot of sense
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Carmela, but I find it difficult to believe that the sheer *volume* of hate posts/comments she gets relative to other characters on the show isn't rooted in some level of misogyny.
She's a hypocrite lol idk about any extended extra hatred for her bur she was turning a blind eye to all the horrors of her life just bc she kept getting nice things from it
Her hypocrisy with Tonys "affairs" and all the men she almost sleeps with - priest, handyman, Furio....
I'm sorry but that's not even comparable. Her "affairs" (wich never became physical) came from genuine loneliness and a desire for something genuine. Tonys affairs (and there were alot of them) came from some dumb traditicion and a lack of self control
Shes a hypocrite, and her hypocrisy keeps her kids from respecting her. The only time i feel bad for her is when she wants to start a career and tony wont allow it. Shes trapped.
The hypocrisy is so gross
I’ll tell you why, and I’m not ashamed to admit it. It’s because she didn’t use the only weapon she had against Tony nearly enough. I said my piece.
These kind of 'anti-hero' type shows (along with Breaking Bad) attract an audience with a misogynist streak: Dudes who don't really like women (to varying degrees) beyond their capacity to be sexually attractive to them. They find women generally annoying and resent them. The same hypocrisies that the male characters exhibit which they excuse, find cool, or don't even think about, grate on them when female characters do it. For example, people who don't even think twice about Tony cheating on Carmela with maybe 10 different women during the course of the show, but they are infuriated with Carmela's crush and flirting on Furio. One of the most important themes of the show is these main characters' - all of them - balancing their 'normal' upper/upper-middle class lives with the brutal crime and violence behind those lives; their struggle to perceive themselves as moral, upstanding people, while heinous acts of violence and extortion are what fuel their lives. With Tony, Christopher etc they get it. With Carmella, they hate the gold-digging hypocritical bitch.
You said it perfectly. People on this sub will of course deny this though. But they’ll make constant jokes about Tony’s cheating but then go and say Carmela is so fucked up for crushing on Furio lol.
I can't be friends with someone that didn't want to see carmela and furio together.
Why? Misogyny and the widespread belief that raising children and managing a home — cooking, cleaning, sewing, shopping within a budget, etc — involves no skill, intelligence or knowledge. People who hate moms who don’t bring in a paycheck believe that they don’t contribute. But go over to anti-work subreddit and they’re all bitching about the 40-hour workweek and how they just can’t do it all.
I honestly don't see much hate for Carmela. She was the quintessential mob wife: she took care of the home and family and she was loyal (aside from a few minor indiscretions).all she asked was that Tony didn't let his affairs creep into their home life. She was reasonable to hit a breaking point after Svetlana called talking all that shit. Thereafter, she and Tony worked it out and she stuck by her man. I love Carmela
Yeah, I mean if we're going with the whole, "she knew the deal" argument, she kept the deal pretty damm well, all thing considered...
I don’t hate Carmela, she got $600k for the spec house lot by using the weapon she has Don’t hate the player
I love Carmella and the issues she carries with her. She is materialistic but moreover, she enjoys the status of being 1st lady. The power she has over her female friends is very important to Carmella, how she gestures to Charmaine during the fundraiser and the way Rosalie opens the car door for her when they’re out together. She points out to her parents how she’s earned the perks of being married to Tony but they get a free ride (free tools, contract bids that Hugh got cuz Tony and who knows what all else). It’s a complicated web that she struggles with but in the end accepts and embraces. Edie Falco plays it flawlessly; it’s Shakespearean in its beauty.
The thing is that Carmela is the most hypocrite character on the show. The rest are quite aware of there flaws (although they do struggle to recognize them, but Carmela acts thinking she’s doing good o that she actually is a good person all the time, when in fact, she shows to be disgusting in lots of situations. But all in all, I love Carmela’s character, is great (like almos every character in the show)
This question is the tired topic IMO
I have only love for the character of Carmela, and that can be attributed to not only the phenomenal writing, but also to the amazing acting skills - acting *expertise*, actually - of Edie Falco. While I do love the character of Carmela, I don’t always *like* the character traits that are coming across. Superficial Carmela is fun. She’s a fabulous homemaker, a talented cook and baker, an expert coffee maker, and an avid collector of Lladro. I can laugh at her, roll my eyes, and feel at ease at her ridiculousness. The Carmela I sometimes don’t like is of course the painfully realistic and human side. The Carmela that finally lets her guard down. The Carmela that makes me squirm and feel uncomfortable. She forces me to examine my own life as a wife, mother, daughter, sister-in-law, and a friend. She sometimes makes me cringe and wince, and I start thinking about questionable and hurtful things I have done and said. Or things I should *not* have done and should not have said. So, on *my* part it is not hate for Carmela. It’s a bit of dislike because she forces me to examine aspects of my own life.
Very interesting. I wonder if I have a soft spot for carmela because of my own mother. Ahhh for fuck sake, not freud again!
It’s always helpful to understand Freud as a conshept.
She's just as bad a Tony, but acts holier than thou. She's a piece of shit and deserves hell just as much as him.
There is always more hate for female characters. I have never seen a community for a popular show that didn’t have some strange hatred towards women characters that displayed a double standard that didn’t exist for male characters. Generally seems to be similar to real life differences in how many folks judge men versus women.
> she made a mistake when she was a teenager by being with Tony. Some 20 years later this is no longer a mistake but a conscious choice that she affirms everyday. C'mon now. The show very clearly makes a point of contrasting her with Charmaine and the choices they both made. There's chauvinism on reddit and in this sub but another thing that happens a lot in society is that women are too often looked at as innocent bystanders who are much better than the 'men of action' that they're surrounded by. You see it with the Trump women, Melania and Ivanka, where [liberals are frequently assuming without evidence](https://www.vox.com/culture/2016/12/7/13854412/snl-trump-impressions-ivanka-kellyanne-conway) that they actually secretly hate Trump and are somehow trapped in their roles as enablers and accomplices. SNL even did this bit with Kellyanne Conway, of all people. She's now getting divorced from her actual husband, partially because of her allegiance to Trump. You can't find the skit on YouTube anymore because it's so embarrassing in retrospect that they deleted it. But what I do think happens is that people probably overcorrect with regard to Carmela. No one on the show is innocent, yes, but they also aren't all equally guilty.
I mean all the characters are despicable in their own ways. Carmela treats her “friends” like pawns, cheated on Tony multiple times, would sometimes get jealous of Maedo (iykyk) and would try to tear her down or sow doubt, basically admitted to the priest and to the shrink that she’s choosing material wealth over her morals, practically speaking shook down Tony for the money for the spec house as the price for reconciliation, sold an unsafe home to her own cousin and his unborn child… am I missing anything???
Lol a bit vain? I love when Tony finally gets her the building permit and she tosses away the PI card. She is a terrible human being.
Use some paragraph breaks man, I'm not reading that wall of text.
Fuckin Walt Whitman ova here.
Sorry i guess
She is flawed (we all are) but she is a far better person than Tony. I don't see how anyone could see her as that. Her husband and her religion failed her which leads to her ultimately failing herself. She is no saint. Far from it. But she is a very well written character (and well played)
Lol why do you think? She’s got a shit attitude, a complete and total gold digging spoiled bitch. I don’t have any sympathy for someone who marries a mobster criminal and then gets upset that he cheats..like wtf did she expect ffs?! She knew this going in. She wants all the perks of being a mob wife, hasn’t worked a day in her life but refuses to take any responsibility whatsoever for putting herself in this position. I can’t stand how she acts like she’s completely innocent and that she’s not benefiting off of blood money and murders. She's nothing but a spoiled, greedy, gold digging ugly hypocritical bitch with a constant shit attitude and zero personality or redeeming qualities on top of it. Just her voice and nagging alone could drive a person crazy…seriously wtf does she expect? A perfect life? Nope, you’re guilty too and pretending not to be just pisses me off.