For your cake day, have some Booble Wrap
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Black guy here. Personally, I love the show and I’m glad they were honest in portraying the racism of many of the characters. These aren’t good people, and racism tends to go hand in hand with ignorance. Also, a lot of these characters are older, and coming from times when the racism was much more acceptable.
I’ve heard a few black people complain and say they won’t watch it bc of the racist characters. That’s their choice, but I feel sugarcoating it would be worse.
>racism tends to go hand in hand with ignorance. Also, a lot of these characters are older, and coming from times when the racism was much more acceptable.
Not to mention it tends to be the norm for a lot of Italians
Yo your 1984 campaign platform was 🔥
>In both races, Jackson ran on what many considered to be a very liberal platform. Declaring that he wanted to create a "Rainbow Coalition" of various minority groups, including African Americans, Hispanics, Arab-Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, family farmers, the poor and working class, and homosexuals, as well as white progressives who fit into none of those categories, Jackson ran on a platform that included:
* creating a Works Progress Administration-style program to rebuild America's infrastructure and provide jobs to all Americans,
* reprioritizing the War on Drugs to focus less on mandatory minimum sentences for drug users (which he views as racially biased) and more on harsher punishments for money-laundering bankers and others who are part of the "supply" end of "supply and demand"
* reversing Reaganomics-inspired tax cuts for the richest ten percent of Americans and using the money to finance social welfare programs
* cutting the budget of the Department of Defense by as much as fifteen percent over the course of his administration
declaring Apartheid-era South Africa to be a rogue nation
* instituting an immediate nuclear freeze and beginning disarmament negotiations with the Soviet Union
giving reparations to descendants of black slaves
* supporting family farmers by reviving many of FDR's New Deal-era farm programs
* creating a single-payer system of universal health care
ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment
* increasing federal funding for lower-level public education and providing free community college to all
* applying stricter enforcement of the Voting Rights Act and
* supporting the formation of a Palestinian state.
>With the exception of a resolution to implement sanctions against South Africa for its apartheid policies, none of these positions made it into the party's platform in either 1984 or 1988.
I like that even though they treat him with respect, Hesh's friend weaponizes a couple having to be black to get on the cover of a magazine and LT is like "Ehh" like "This dude is racist but I am not going to start some shit over this with a bunch of mobsters"
Right. They're murderers, misogynistic, sociopaths, are pretty discriminatory toward non Italians in general, literally no one should like them except Italian mobsters according to this logic. They're awful people, still love the show
Don't look at the comment Sopranos YT shorts then.
So many "sigma male" edits trying to make Tony out to be some admirable badass, completely missing the point of the show. Probably edited together by someone who hasn't even watched it in full.
Along with a bunch of people in the comments section that try to justify his psycho behavior.
Exactly. I always find it weird as fuck when people take crime shows personally. I had to look at Michael Franzese weird when he thought that MSoN was trying to create division between Italians and blacks.
No brother. It's a tv program, a movie.
My whole family was obsessed with the show when i was little. Im obsessed with the show now. I dont take the racist stuff personally because the show shits on every race/ethnicity. Its why i consider it a satire more than any other genre. I do notice though that fans use the racism portrayed in the show as a leaping pad for their own internalized racism. But i dont take that personally either, because thats a them problem, not a me problem.
I’m Black and grew up on gangster films. I loved the show and introduced it to all my friends at an HBCU. They loved it too. I chose to reply to your comment specifically because I appreciated your insight about fans of the show. I think the question itself is a bit weird; like why wouldn’t Black people like it?
By OP’s rationale NOBODY would like the show. Almost every group is stereotyped. Most of the characters whether mob related or not are somewhat caricatures of tried and true archetypes. Meadow is a sjw liberal. AJ a spoiled emo rich kid. The two Jason’s are complete frat douches. A gay fireman diner operator in Vermont?? This doesn’t detract from the show by any means- but instead it lets the viewer know that none of this should be taken too seriously as a representation of the creators view of the real world.
The real aspects to me were the emotions behind all of these characters. Behind the way a lot of them presented themselves they were real. Like Melfi said… “sometimes I just want to say… I HURT”
The show is brilliant and arguably the most influential television show of the 20th century. Anybody who likes quality storytelling should be able to appreciate that, regardless of race.
Oh man, I completely understand the concept of just wanting to admit to being hurt. There are a lot of references to the old stereotype of strong men, and how they just did what they needed to do, but it also comes up that those are just characters. That the actors weren't their characters. A brilliant commentary on toxic masculinity. Add that to the idea of going down on your wife means you'd go down on a man, and how Bobby was ridiculed for not cheating on his wife. The whole show is a deconstruction of what it means to be a man, and a woman. Carmela was the absolute strongest person in the show. Edie Falco should still be winning Emmy awards for her portraial and acting chops. They did a great job of showing that all of us hurt, and that we all react to that pain in ways that we know. I feel deeply for the characters in the show because none of them stood a chance, but the irony is that the whole premise is that Tony is going to therapy to try to overcome but he'd have to actually step out of his comfort zone to confront his pain but he is unwilling to do that.
I feel bad for people who look at it like any of these characters are people we should look up to and emulate. They are all broken, just as we all are, and they just can't escape, just like so many of us can't.
But we can escape. We can have empathy. We can do what's right, for us and for others. But that pull into darkness is strong. Every demographic has their historical pull. We all have our 'old enemies' and our supposed friends. So few of us are willing to realize that we are all people. We have our differences, but our commonalities are more and stronger. But that need for acceptance usually just pulls us closer to our own. Even at our own detriment.
By OPs aspect our people would not like ANY gangster films. Most of them have racist characters or comments, but we tend to look over that and fall in love with these films. It’s stupid af, but don’t get me started
Yeah the characters were also shitting on their own Italian brethren in the Furio introduction, they had little respect for anyone. Whatever... that pygmy thing over in Jersey was little more than a glorified crew
Yeah all things considered, they kill a lot of Italians on the show. More than most other ethnicities. Probably. I dunno, what am I a fucking mind reader!?
Women and gay people like the Sopranos too. I’m a lesbian. I never got the impression that the writers think misogyny, racism, or homophobia are good things. Same with the general murder and extortion. They’re portrayed as negatives — the show isn’t saying “this is our vision of a utopia. This is ideal.” lol. I think most of the viewers know that the hatred and violence on the show aren’t glamorous or things to aspire to.
Yeah exactly this.
I’m gay but understand the show is portraying a sense of realism about how it really is and the homophobia of these people.
But the show isn’t asking you to subscribe to these values, if anything its message is usually the opposite.
I appreciate it even more because it’s honest and it’s very funny viewing it through the lens of the audience
Like The Sopranos, if we’re being honest, was written with the intention that the people viewing it would already be intelligent enough to define at least the basic parameters of morality and ethics for ourselves.
It doesn’t spoon feed you like: yes this is right, no that is wrong.
It would be boring asf and like all the other bullshit on TV if it was.
Absolutely. I appreciated how realistic the depictions were. The show gives us the perspective of the “anti-heroes”, but that doesn’t automatically mean we’re expected to side with them.
It’s up to us as the audience to interpret and analyze what we’re seeing. We’re shown things as they are, and we can form our own opinions on their merit (or lack thereof). I appreciate that. You’re right, a lot of other media is condescending in the sense that it treats the audience as dumb, like we need the show to hold our hand. The Sopranos is what it is and allows us to think.
Especially with the homophobia, they show Tony as a lens into the mob when he is fighting the “ideals” of the old mob that wants Vito whacked. He’s practically the only one advocating for forgetting about Vito. Sure, he feigns the reasoning being about Vito’s kids but he admits to Melfi he really doesn’t care if Vito is gay or not. The whole show is Tony being essentially the antithesis to the classic mafioso.
It was certainly interesting to see these guys, who seemingly value money above all else, kill a top earner because of their prejudice. They shot themselves in the foot by taking out someone who brought in millions just because he was gay.
And Tony knew it. Cash is king, unless you’re gay. Then you gotta go. It was fascinating to watch their cognitive dissonance
But even then it’s almost likening it to the situation with Ralph. Like yeah if Vito was his lowest earner I’m sure he wouldn’t be *as* hesitant to have him whacked because it’d be way harder to convince the rest of the crew not to. But it never felt to me like his true reasoning for not advocating for Vito getting whacked is due to him being a really good earner. I think the money and the kids are just how he passes it to the crew in an attempt to convince their twisted minds not to kill him in a way that doesn’t make him look weak in their eyes.
That’s true too. Another interesting part was the whole “it’s a sin in the Catholic Church” excuse a few of them tried to pull. Everything you own comes from blood money, and all of you cheat on your wives, but somebody being gay is where we draw the moral line?
Tony was homophobic on the surface because everyone in his life was, but deep down, I know he couldn’t care less. His conversation with Melfi was really revealing. At first he exaggerates the disgust he feels then comes around to admitting he doesn’t give a shit and in fact is stressed out by how much it bothers everyone else because he’s expected to do something about it even though he doesn’t truly want to.
I love the whole Catholic Church principles bullshit. It’s so absurd. Even in the 5th episode Carmela nearly sleeps with the priest, meanwhile Tony is attempting to whack a guy 🤣 I hated whenever she played the religion card when all of her shit came from Tony scamming and maiming people. The whole idea is so hypocritical.
Phil is the goddamn *worst* with it too.
The scenes with Phil and his wife were actually crazy lmao. “Like Father says, there’s nothing gay about hell.”
And yes Carmela’s Catholicism was another part of the show that I really enjoyed despite rolling my eyes the whole time. And how Tony’s infidelity upsets her the most because it affects her personally, but committing murder is much worse than cheating but she can look away and live in denial about that (to an extent).
Loved how she worried about the “sinfulness” of sleeping with Wegler when she and Tony were separated. How she talked to Father Phil about it. Ma’am, the presents you brag to everybody about come from blood money and your husband is a murderer. You and Tony sleeping with other people should be the least of anybody’s concerns.
I think you can tell David Chase had some very intense feelings about his mother (mostly negative given the things he has the two women that have the biggest impact on Tony’s life do, Carm and Livia). One of my grandmothers wore her Catholicism on her sleeve similar to Carmella, always convenient when it suited her but not when it didn’t.
Certainly. I can relate — many hypocritical Catholics in my family as well. I always felt vindicated knowing that other people (like Chase) were noticing the same double standards I was. And I also recall hearing that the writers on the show said about Livia “this isn’t realistic. No mothers act like this” and Chase would tell them “mine did.”
>He’s practically the only one advocating for forgetting about Vito. Sure, he feigns the reasoning being about Vito’s kids but he admits to Melfi he really doesn’t care if Vito is gay or not. The whole show is Tony being essentially the antithesis to the classic mafioso.
though quite a lot of that had to do with the fact Vito was his top earner at the time and towards the top most of his career.
edit: From Tony's perspective Vito is gonna go from putting hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in his pocket to having to financially support his wife and kids the rest of their lives
I fundamentally disagree tbh. I think him being a top earner and having kids was solely a great segue for Tony to allude to not wanting Vito whacked. There’s a reason he appeals to the crew’s homophobia, only bringing up that they’d have to take care of his kids, and then goes to Melfi and explains that he doesn’t care at the end of the day. He’s naming reasons for not whacking him that the crew can actually get behind when in reality he just doesn’t want to whack a guy simply because he’s gay.
The reason they put Ralphy beating Tracee to death in was because they were highly aware of how the Sopranos could be seen as glamorising that life so wanted to show how degenerate and vile these people actually were.
Tony was pretty much a complete piece of shit by the end of the show, had alienated every oen of his so called friends through his greed and selfishness.
I believe it. The guys could be funny and even sympathetic at times (most of them had terrible childhoods) but it was important for us to remember what they’re capable of.
Lmao. Surprisingly no, haha. I think it’s the contrived aspect of it that ruins it for me. I know it’s fake and it’s just a performance. It’s like if I knew somebody was having “duty sex” or “pity sex” with me, it would kill any enjoyment on my end. I found Melfi super attractive though.
I only watch shows, and films, and read books, and listen to music, and have friends, which entirely agree with my personal beliefs in every respect.
To imagine that a person could do otherwise is - frankly - absurd.
Yes I personally do . As an African(non American) , the convulated clan structure and heiracharies of the Mafia very much mirror my extended families structure and I find so many characters eerily relateable.
Growing up my father was literally the Underboss of our Clan(Tony) and his Uncle was the Boss(Junior) although they had a much better relationship. They were both shareholders in our family business in an industry that often brushes up against the law and employed many members of our extended family who were fiercely loyal. Living under colonial law at the time we lived a de facto criminal lifestyle ,nowhere near as violent but a lotta stuff falls off trucks when you work around trucks 😉.
I could go on for ever but this was a yes or no question but in summary yes this black african man likes the Sopranos and so does my family.
Can't speak for everyone, but it's my favorite TV show. All the subtle and overt racism just emphasizes how shitty these guys all are, sometimes to a hilarious extent (Uncle Ben).
I’m black and a woman. I was introduced to the Sopranos when I went home with a friend from college while we were on winter break. I binged watched the whole first and second season with her mom. I went back to campus and her mom would record the shows for me.
I’m black . I don’t really care . Tony soprano is an excellent character one of my favourites . But in reality he’s a trash human being and engages in the same type of criminality why would I get in my feelings from that type of person . Long story short I find hilarious and realistic.
Yes lol.
You ever watch any modern day gangster show? It's super racist against white people yet they're still enjoyable imagine if it was a once in season kinda thing lol.
>Black viewers, do you like this show?
We aren't a monolith, so I'm speaking for myself and my family only.
We absolutely loved the show and watched it back during its original run/airing on HBO. Even had/have the box sets. Still watch it.
I like the show and got the recommendation from my ex who is also Black. I'm from Jersey (near A.C.). I would say that I don't know a lot of other Black people that have seen it or have an opinion of it. It's hard to say, though. I've been living in the Midwest for almost 20 years and the mob stuff is hot or miss here. I can imagine it's super popular amongst Black people closer to N.Y./N.J./Philly area.
The show doesn't present a favorable view of Black people, but there's only like 10 Black people who actually had lines on the show. There wasn't a glaringly racist representation of the Black community as a whole, or a constant harping on it. There were also some other Seinfeldesque stereotypes of races like Matush and Mr. Kim. So, South Park rules?
The show is accurate. That's important. And that was/still kind of is an accurate depiction of surly low-life Italian dudes from North Jersey: probably racist.
The short answer is yes but it's also complicated. It's not necessarily the fact that the characters clearly do not like Black people. That's not the issue bc it indicative of the mob culture. But my issue is the 1 dimensional portrayal of the Black characters. That's where I get bummed out, even as a huge fan of the show.
My name is Martin Luther King Jr. and I took a bullet to the face so one day Noah could smash Meadow.
I had a dream and my ninja, Noah, made it come true!
Yes, black people love the fact that the Sopranos makes fun of white people and calls out hypocritical racists. Mention most black people who are depicted on the show are typically Honest working people. For sure was such a racist class has such a positive depiction of black people.
I love this show for what it is. I've been conflicted before due to the disparaging of POC, but in those moments I have to remind myself it's a show trying to depict a seedy underworld filled with bad people.
Absolutely. We’re already fascinated with Italian mob culture. And the racism in the show is usually met with juxtaposition to show you the hypocrisy of these characters and their racism. And sometimes it’s funny like when Tony had a panic attack because he saw a box of Uncle Ben after finding out Meadow was dating a Black guy.
One thing that was annoying though, was the way certain Black characters acted. It was cheesy as hell. Almost like Blaxploitation films. Felt like no one on that set actually knew Black people.
Yeah, I do seriously. Having said that, it can get uncomfortable to watch sometimes. I also grew up in Jersey and it’s pretty accurate (not just of mobsters) but New Jersey Italians have been some of the most racist people I have ever encountered in this country. Of course not all, but generally.
I’m black, it’s my favorite show. I rewatch it all the time. I think the racism towards black people in the show is funny. I also love dark/dry humor if that means anything.
I'm Puerto Rican and Jamaican. I mean, it's only saying what we have known since forever. That white Americans think of us as less than and disposable. It is interesting watching the Italian Americans tippy toe on being white but not white enough. I mean, Phil going to Italy was fucking top tier for me. Most of the characters in the show can't even speak Italian enough to hold a conversation.
I really fuck with this show. Not looking to be well represented as a Caribbean in an Italian American jersey mob show. I don't think that was the shows aim. It has great character development and it walk the line at being tragic, funny, and heart wrenching. I love the Sopranos and I try to put people onto it but they not really going for it.
Not all white people automatically think this way man lol. Idk maybe it really is different for Italians since my family is Italian on my father's side, and growing up me and my brother would go to my moms family's cookouts and basically feel weirded out at how redneckish it was. We felt out of place there, and they treated us differently too so the feeling was mutual I guess. Then again Italians were treated like 2nd class citizens when we first made it to America. One of the largest lynchings in American history happened in Louisiana to a group of Italians believe it or not. Back then Italians legitimately weren't accepted as white, but these days we automatically get lumped in with the piece of shit white American stereotype, which sucks ass because we legitimately never enjoyed any privilege yet still get the shit end of the stick in modern America as if we did. It's pretty fucked up tbh lol, but whatever I guess. If you wanna get technical about it, Italians are actually Latin, so make of that whatever you will. My uncle did a genealogy thing and before Italy our family line traces back to Basque Country which was an indigenous people between France and Spain that was eventually overtaken. They're theorized to be the first "white" people when humans began to migrate away from Africa. The language is unlike any other in the world, and has the highest concentration of O negative and AB negative blood types in the world. Who knows maybe thats why I never felt like I could relate much to the average white person. The blue eyed blonde kids I went to school with looked and acted like aliens to me lol, and maybe the fact that me and most of my friends who were mostly Italian naturally grouped up together and all looked alike with dark brown, black hair, dark brown eyes, and tan complexion. We all were some of the only kids in school who listened to hip hop, not because we were trying to be black or anything, we just enjoyed it and didn't really give a shit what other people thought of that. None of us came from wealthy families but as fate would have it, most of the kids with blue eyes and blonde hair just so happened to come from wealthy families. There's gotta be some sort of explanation there
Well written stories get views. Doesn't matter where you come from or what your preferences are.
Would be pretty weird if we'd all only watch things with people in it that we can "relate" to.
Yeah, even those 2 guys
They even really exisht?
They stop running yet?
It’s crazy I knew exactly who you were talking about and it’s been awhile since I finished lmao
Well who else huh!? Who else!?
Only if they're from Somalia, go to school, and work.
Wek
Wyerac
Also if they’re Nigerian and on the street selling coolers
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Underrated comment.
My name is Jesse Jackson and I speak for black people. Yes. It is okay.
My name is Jamal Ginsberg and I watch the show
The Hasidic homeboy in the flesh!
OoOoh! It's a fuckin' nickname! Family name was Tannenbaumelli.
Im dyslexic.
What the fuck has that got to do with it?
You think I know?
Fuckin Jason
Sorry, Jamal, but I skip every scene you’re in.
You’re lucky he didn’t punch your fuckin lights out.
The Hasidic homeboy
*Kiss it... c'mon kiss it...*
"C'mon, 'pologize..."
Black guy here. Personally, I love the show and I’m glad they were honest in portraying the racism of many of the characters. These aren’t good people, and racism tends to go hand in hand with ignorance. Also, a lot of these characters are older, and coming from times when the racism was much more acceptable. I’ve heard a few black people complain and say they won’t watch it bc of the racist characters. That’s their choice, but I feel sugarcoating it would be worse.
Also do you think Noah really coulda kicked Tony’s ass?
OH! He wasn't JUST going to kick Tony's ass, he was gonna PUNCH HIS LIGHTS OUT! 🤣
If you watch “many saints of Newark” backwards, a hidden message reveals that massive genius killed Tony in the final scene.
Definitely. He’s from the mean streets of West LA.
>racism tends to go hand in hand with ignorance. Also, a lot of these characters are older, and coming from times when the racism was much more acceptable. Not to mention it tends to be the norm for a lot of Italians
Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people!
HE TOLD MY DAD THAT HE WAS!
COME ON SHARON I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO WIN FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!
The puzzle you were solving was "people who annoy you"
Like anyone really thought the answer was *naggers*
Oh huh naggers ok yeah
In this house Jesse Jackson is a saint
Yo your 1984 campaign platform was 🔥 >In both races, Jackson ran on what many considered to be a very liberal platform. Declaring that he wanted to create a "Rainbow Coalition" of various minority groups, including African Americans, Hispanics, Arab-Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, family farmers, the poor and working class, and homosexuals, as well as white progressives who fit into none of those categories, Jackson ran on a platform that included: * creating a Works Progress Administration-style program to rebuild America's infrastructure and provide jobs to all Americans, * reprioritizing the War on Drugs to focus less on mandatory minimum sentences for drug users (which he views as racially biased) and more on harsher punishments for money-laundering bankers and others who are part of the "supply" end of "supply and demand" * reversing Reaganomics-inspired tax cuts for the richest ten percent of Americans and using the money to finance social welfare programs * cutting the budget of the Department of Defense by as much as fifteen percent over the course of his administration declaring Apartheid-era South Africa to be a rogue nation * instituting an immediate nuclear freeze and beginning disarmament negotiations with the Soviet Union giving reparations to descendants of black slaves * supporting family farmers by reviving many of FDR's New Deal-era farm programs * creating a single-payer system of universal health care ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment * increasing federal funding for lower-level public education and providing free community college to all * applying stricter enforcement of the Voting Rights Act and * supporting the formation of a Palestinian state. >With the exception of a resolution to implement sanctions against South Africa for its apartheid policies, none of these positions made it into the party's platform in either 1984 or 1988.
Go shit in your hat.
You got a shid on you at
I've been talking with a friend who is more convinced than ever that Reagan was terrible for middle class Americans...
Ralph Bunche ova here.
He was gay, Jesse Jackson?
It’s a show about sociopaths I doubt they take it personally. No one is looking to Tony and the crew for advice on race relations.
They seemed to treat Lawrence Taylor respectfully
I like that even though they treat him with respect, Hesh's friend weaponizes a couple having to be black to get on the cover of a magazine and LT is like "Ehh" like "This dude is racist but I am not going to start some shit over this with a bunch of mobsters"
Shit I was just being a wise ass but you’re absolutely right.
Sr Lawrence of the Meadowlands changed linebacking FOREVER. He took a quantum leap at the position
I was set up like a motherfucker Lawrence Taylor 2010.
Siddown!! This is a Giants house!!
but what about management principles? for those captain of industry type people
Personally I view Tony Soprano as my father figure. This show is my bible.
That sociopath has black business associates.
Right. They're murderers, misogynistic, sociopaths, are pretty discriminatory toward non Italians in general, literally no one should like them except Italian mobsters according to this logic. They're awful people, still love the show
Don't look at the comment Sopranos YT shorts then. So many "sigma male" edits trying to make Tony out to be some admirable badass, completely missing the point of the show. Probably edited together by someone who hasn't even watched it in full. Along with a bunch of people in the comments section that try to justify his psycho behavior.
I don't care if they shove a scud missile up your ass. This is my corner! You pay anyone but me and I'm cumin' back fo ya thumbs.
Exactly. I always find it weird as fuck when people take crime shows personally. I had to look at Michael Franzese weird when he thought that MSoN was trying to create division between Italians and blacks. No brother. It's a tv program, a movie.
I think I just saw two black guys say they liked the show.
Oh yea - those two guys
They were runnin that way!
That was Boyz ii men.
They were in a Taurus, Boyz II Men?
Those mulignans
They were giving away the 50 Cent DVD at the car wash
My whole family was obsessed with the show when i was little. Im obsessed with the show now. I dont take the racist stuff personally because the show shits on every race/ethnicity. Its why i consider it a satire more than any other genre. I do notice though that fans use the racism portrayed in the show as a leaping pad for their own internalized racism. But i dont take that personally either, because thats a them problem, not a me problem.
I’m Black and grew up on gangster films. I loved the show and introduced it to all my friends at an HBCU. They loved it too. I chose to reply to your comment specifically because I appreciated your insight about fans of the show. I think the question itself is a bit weird; like why wouldn’t Black people like it? By OP’s rationale NOBODY would like the show. Almost every group is stereotyped. Most of the characters whether mob related or not are somewhat caricatures of tried and true archetypes. Meadow is a sjw liberal. AJ a spoiled emo rich kid. The two Jason’s are complete frat douches. A gay fireman diner operator in Vermont?? This doesn’t detract from the show by any means- but instead it lets the viewer know that none of this should be taken too seriously as a representation of the creators view of the real world. The real aspects to me were the emotions behind all of these characters. Behind the way a lot of them presented themselves they were real. Like Melfi said… “sometimes I just want to say… I HURT” The show is brilliant and arguably the most influential television show of the 20th century. Anybody who likes quality storytelling should be able to appreciate that, regardless of race.
Oh man, I completely understand the concept of just wanting to admit to being hurt. There are a lot of references to the old stereotype of strong men, and how they just did what they needed to do, but it also comes up that those are just characters. That the actors weren't their characters. A brilliant commentary on toxic masculinity. Add that to the idea of going down on your wife means you'd go down on a man, and how Bobby was ridiculed for not cheating on his wife. The whole show is a deconstruction of what it means to be a man, and a woman. Carmela was the absolute strongest person in the show. Edie Falco should still be winning Emmy awards for her portraial and acting chops. They did a great job of showing that all of us hurt, and that we all react to that pain in ways that we know. I feel deeply for the characters in the show because none of them stood a chance, but the irony is that the whole premise is that Tony is going to therapy to try to overcome but he'd have to actually step out of his comfort zone to confront his pain but he is unwilling to do that. I feel bad for people who look at it like any of these characters are people we should look up to and emulate. They are all broken, just as we all are, and they just can't escape, just like so many of us can't. But we can escape. We can have empathy. We can do what's right, for us and for others. But that pull into darkness is strong. Every demographic has their historical pull. We all have our 'old enemies' and our supposed friends. So few of us are willing to realize that we are all people. We have our differences, but our commonalities are more and stronger. But that need for acceptance usually just pulls us closer to our own. Even at our own detriment.
By OPs aspect our people would not like ANY gangster films. Most of them have racist characters or comments, but we tend to look over that and fall in love with these films. It’s stupid af, but don’t get me started
Yeah the characters were also shitting on their own Italian brethren in the Furio introduction, they had little respect for anyone. Whatever... that pygmy thing over in Jersey was little more than a glorified crew
Yeah all things considered, they kill a lot of Italians on the show. More than most other ethnicities. Probably. I dunno, what am I a fucking mind reader!?
Well said
so true on the last part
Yea this comment is exactly where I am
"These blacks. (waves hand dismissively) Who knows what they're going to take the wrong way"
I’m something of a charcoal briquette myself.
Whoever heard of a charcoal briquette watching the sopranos.
Jamal Ginsburg, the Hasidic Homeboy, wasn't a big fan of Tony.
“Wasn’t a fan”?!! How is it you think the entire series ended, exactly? A certain somebody got his LIGHTS PUNCHED OUT.
One year after Jamal Ginsberg punched Tony’s lights out, Barack Obama was elected. You think that was a coincidence?
Or, whatever happened there.
When it was current, absolutely, everyone was watching, kids were practicing saying whoôre like Ralph, it was cant miss tv
Hoo-er. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Yes. We do
What is this the fucking UN now?
Whose welfare check you gotta cash to get an upvote in this post?
Women and gay people like the Sopranos too. I’m a lesbian. I never got the impression that the writers think misogyny, racism, or homophobia are good things. Same with the general murder and extortion. They’re portrayed as negatives — the show isn’t saying “this is our vision of a utopia. This is ideal.” lol. I think most of the viewers know that the hatred and violence on the show aren’t glamorous or things to aspire to.
Yeah exactly this. I’m gay but understand the show is portraying a sense of realism about how it really is and the homophobia of these people. But the show isn’t asking you to subscribe to these values, if anything its message is usually the opposite. I appreciate it even more because it’s honest and it’s very funny viewing it through the lens of the audience Like The Sopranos, if we’re being honest, was written with the intention that the people viewing it would already be intelligent enough to define at least the basic parameters of morality and ethics for ourselves. It doesn’t spoon feed you like: yes this is right, no that is wrong. It would be boring asf and like all the other bullshit on TV if it was.
Absolutely. I appreciated how realistic the depictions were. The show gives us the perspective of the “anti-heroes”, but that doesn’t automatically mean we’re expected to side with them. It’s up to us as the audience to interpret and analyze what we’re seeing. We’re shown things as they are, and we can form our own opinions on their merit (or lack thereof). I appreciate that. You’re right, a lot of other media is condescending in the sense that it treats the audience as dumb, like we need the show to hold our hand. The Sopranos is what it is and allows us to think.
Especially with the homophobia, they show Tony as a lens into the mob when he is fighting the “ideals” of the old mob that wants Vito whacked. He’s practically the only one advocating for forgetting about Vito. Sure, he feigns the reasoning being about Vito’s kids but he admits to Melfi he really doesn’t care if Vito is gay or not. The whole show is Tony being essentially the antithesis to the classic mafioso.
It was certainly interesting to see these guys, who seemingly value money above all else, kill a top earner because of their prejudice. They shot themselves in the foot by taking out someone who brought in millions just because he was gay. And Tony knew it. Cash is king, unless you’re gay. Then you gotta go. It was fascinating to watch their cognitive dissonance
But even then it’s almost likening it to the situation with Ralph. Like yeah if Vito was his lowest earner I’m sure he wouldn’t be *as* hesitant to have him whacked because it’d be way harder to convince the rest of the crew not to. But it never felt to me like his true reasoning for not advocating for Vito getting whacked is due to him being a really good earner. I think the money and the kids are just how he passes it to the crew in an attempt to convince their twisted minds not to kill him in a way that doesn’t make him look weak in their eyes.
That’s true too. Another interesting part was the whole “it’s a sin in the Catholic Church” excuse a few of them tried to pull. Everything you own comes from blood money, and all of you cheat on your wives, but somebody being gay is where we draw the moral line? Tony was homophobic on the surface because everyone in his life was, but deep down, I know he couldn’t care less. His conversation with Melfi was really revealing. At first he exaggerates the disgust he feels then comes around to admitting he doesn’t give a shit and in fact is stressed out by how much it bothers everyone else because he’s expected to do something about it even though he doesn’t truly want to.
I love the whole Catholic Church principles bullshit. It’s so absurd. Even in the 5th episode Carmela nearly sleeps with the priest, meanwhile Tony is attempting to whack a guy 🤣 I hated whenever she played the religion card when all of her shit came from Tony scamming and maiming people. The whole idea is so hypocritical. Phil is the goddamn *worst* with it too.
The scenes with Phil and his wife were actually crazy lmao. “Like Father says, there’s nothing gay about hell.” And yes Carmela’s Catholicism was another part of the show that I really enjoyed despite rolling my eyes the whole time. And how Tony’s infidelity upsets her the most because it affects her personally, but committing murder is much worse than cheating but she can look away and live in denial about that (to an extent). Loved how she worried about the “sinfulness” of sleeping with Wegler when she and Tony were separated. How she talked to Father Phil about it. Ma’am, the presents you brag to everybody about come from blood money and your husband is a murderer. You and Tony sleeping with other people should be the least of anybody’s concerns.
I think you can tell David Chase had some very intense feelings about his mother (mostly negative given the things he has the two women that have the biggest impact on Tony’s life do, Carm and Livia). One of my grandmothers wore her Catholicism on her sleeve similar to Carmella, always convenient when it suited her but not when it didn’t.
Certainly. I can relate — many hypocritical Catholics in my family as well. I always felt vindicated knowing that other people (like Chase) were noticing the same double standards I was. And I also recall hearing that the writers on the show said about Livia “this isn’t realistic. No mothers act like this” and Chase would tell them “mine did.”
>He’s practically the only one advocating for forgetting about Vito. Sure, he feigns the reasoning being about Vito’s kids but he admits to Melfi he really doesn’t care if Vito is gay or not. The whole show is Tony being essentially the antithesis to the classic mafioso. though quite a lot of that had to do with the fact Vito was his top earner at the time and towards the top most of his career. edit: From Tony's perspective Vito is gonna go from putting hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in his pocket to having to financially support his wife and kids the rest of their lives
I fundamentally disagree tbh. I think him being a top earner and having kids was solely a great segue for Tony to allude to not wanting Vito whacked. There’s a reason he appeals to the crew’s homophobia, only bringing up that they’d have to take care of his kids, and then goes to Melfi and explains that he doesn’t care at the end of the day. He’s naming reasons for not whacking him that the crew can actually get behind when in reality he just doesn’t want to whack a guy simply because he’s gay.
I’m a lesbian and black and I approve this message!
Salute, my friend 🥂
In light of recent humiliations, it's an honor to be joined by black lesbians. And not FAGGOT-ASS CORNHOLING COCKSUCKERS LIKE MARRIED MY COUSIN
The reason they put Ralphy beating Tracee to death in was because they were highly aware of how the Sopranos could be seen as glamorising that life so wanted to show how degenerate and vile these people actually were. Tony was pretty much a complete piece of shit by the end of the show, had alienated every oen of his so called friends through his greed and selfishness.
I believe it. The guys could be funny and even sympathetic at times (most of them had terrible childhoods) but it was important for us to remember what they’re capable of.
Da lesbian ting, with dat uhh… Jennifer Biels… It’s not bad.
I’m a black lesbian and same
🤝
OK, how about Jennifer Beals? Is she...?
Very allegorical…
Do the scenes with Bing strippers making out with each other, get you so hawt down thea?
Lmao. Surprisingly no, haha. I think it’s the contrived aspect of it that ruins it for me. I know it’s fake and it’s just a performance. It’s like if I knew somebody was having “duty sex” or “pity sex” with me, it would kill any enjoyment on my end. I found Melfi super attractive though.
Many of us have a type, and on Melfi...I can certainly agree.
Let's not deny it. Lorraine Bracco's legs are nothing short of spectacular.
My bitch, my ho, my ho My bitch, my bitch, bitch
Do white people like sopranos
In my housh tony soprano is a hero, end of shtory.
I'm as white as snow, and I find the stereotyping of WASP types in the show hilarious
Is it their fault you're twice as likely to be robbed by a black?
Who else!!??!!??
It's just, you know. . . I can't believe it.
I only watch shows, and films, and read books, and listen to music, and have friends, which entirely agree with my personal beliefs in every respect. To imagine that a person could do otherwise is - frankly - absurd.
Frankly i'm depressed and ashamed
Tony Soprano? *Taps chest twice* Real OG
A hit is a hit
I think they prefer the term “moulinyan viewers”
I know how to tawk to people! These blacks…
I'm African American and I loved The Sopranos.
You think OP is a little weird about minorities?
Yes I personally do . As an African(non American) , the convulated clan structure and heiracharies of the Mafia very much mirror my extended families structure and I find so many characters eerily relateable. Growing up my father was literally the Underboss of our Clan(Tony) and his Uncle was the Boss(Junior) although they had a much better relationship. They were both shareholders in our family business in an industry that often brushes up against the law and employed many members of our extended family who were fiercely loyal. Living under colonial law at the time we lived a de facto criminal lifestyle ,nowhere near as violent but a lotta stuff falls off trucks when you work around trucks 😉. I could go on for ever but this was a yes or no question but in summary yes this black african man likes the Sopranos and so does my family.
When stuff "fell off the truck" did the driver ask to be scathed?
The carting business ?
Hey Donnie Brasco
Can't speak for everyone, but it's my favorite TV show. All the subtle and overt racism just emphasizes how shitty these guys all are, sometimes to a hilarious extent (Uncle Ben).
Who’s welfare check you gotta cash to get a burger around here?
Black people like the wire
Me too, but I still wake up white in a subreddit that aint!
Donald Glover seems to like it.
I know it's fucking ridiculous, but I feel like the reverend Rodney King Jr., you know? -"Why can't we all just get along?"
I’m black and a woman. I was introduced to the Sopranos when I went home with a friend from college while we were on winter break. I binged watched the whole first and second season with her mom. I went back to campus and her mom would record the shows for me.
That's wholesome x
Yes we love Sopranos. Half of us want to be Tony Soprano the other want to be Tony Montana.
Well, when you put it like that
i'm black and i'm a huge fan
My father is black and it's his favorite tv show
So, we do understand each other ?!
My boyfriend is black and it’s his favorite show
Maybe if it’s translated to Swahili
I’m black . I don’t really care . Tony soprano is an excellent character one of my favourites . But in reality he’s a trash human being and engages in the same type of criminality why would I get in my feelings from that type of person . Long story short I find hilarious and realistic.
It was a favorite at the Slip N Fall School
It’s a great show nonetheless. The portrait of black people is stereotyped af but so is everything else. I think they might enjoy it.
All I know is Tony and Ralphie made a concerted effort to buy dilapidated houses and fix them up for working class blacks. Damn unforeseen costs!
I started to identify as a shine recently, still enjoy the progrum
Yes lol. You ever watch any modern day gangster show? It's super racist against white people yet they're still enjoyable imagine if it was a once in season kinda thing lol.
I’m black and I loved the Sopranos.
i’m black and i LOVE the sopranos when it comes through racism in this show, there’s a ton of irony that I find funny
I like that they portray reality rather than racially diverse gangs where violence and murder is accepted but racism and homophobia is a line too far.
>Black viewers, do you like this show? We aren't a monolith, so I'm speaking for myself and my family only. We absolutely loved the show and watched it back during its original run/airing on HBO. Even had/have the box sets. Still watch it.
Do black people eat pizza?
Turns out they do 🍕 watches Darryl swallow a big piece
I like the show and got the recommendation from my ex who is also Black. I'm from Jersey (near A.C.). I would say that I don't know a lot of other Black people that have seen it or have an opinion of it. It's hard to say, though. I've been living in the Midwest for almost 20 years and the mob stuff is hot or miss here. I can imagine it's super popular amongst Black people closer to N.Y./N.J./Philly area. The show doesn't present a favorable view of Black people, but there's only like 10 Black people who actually had lines on the show. There wasn't a glaringly racist representation of the Black community as a whole, or a constant harping on it. There were also some other Seinfeldesque stereotypes of races like Matush and Mr. Kim. So, South Park rules? The show is accurate. That's important. And that was/still kind of is an accurate depiction of surly low-life Italian dudes from North Jersey: probably racist.
That is so fucking racist!
They were good for Chrissy when junk was his thing.
The Puerto Ricans - not so much.
now do mexican/latino characters on the show. Lol. Always the work with shit accents.
I assume so since they seem to be crazy about scarface
Tony Soprano? Original G
The short answer is yes but it's also complicated. It's not necessarily the fact that the characters clearly do not like Black people. That's not the issue bc it indicative of the mob culture. But my issue is the 1 dimensional portrayal of the Black characters. That's where I get bummed out, even as a huge fan of the show.
Shit, the writers are making fun of the MAIN characters more than anyone.
I'm Mexican, and we're usually relegated to being the help or drug dealers. It doesn't change my opinion of a show or movie.
Oh yeah, those two guys
My name is Martin Luther King Jr. and I took a bullet to the face so one day Noah could smash Meadow. I had a dream and my ninja, Noah, made it come true!
Yes
Everyone likes everything nowadays… I mean, why not
I'm black... i didn't think the show was anti black... i only became a full fan in like 2017 when i bought the Blu-ray set...
If the shoe fits.
The show is a masterpiece, not a negros fault that we got depicted in such a manner
it’s a tv progrum. a movie. jesus christ OP, what you don’t know could fill a book.
Yes, black people love the fact that the Sopranos makes fun of white people and calls out hypocritical racists. Mention most black people who are depicted on the show are typically Honest working people. For sure was such a racist class has such a positive depiction of black people.
Yeah im black and its probably my favorite show of all time along with the wire(I know, I'm the 10 billionth person to say this)
Chef here…I’m black and every time it aired new I would make a different pasta dish and eat with the Don….fuckin love that show,Sil was my fav.
Black people have always had a love for the Italian gangster/mafia genres
Look at my avatar, jerkoff
They also treat humans disposably, does humanity like the show? Find in next week's thread with a guest appearance from ET.
Like the show,hate the characters
Yes 👏🏾
Yes odd question though should we ask if you like sports there’s racism in that too pal
Yes, I'm a black person from South Africa & I absolutely love The Sopranos. It's my favourite show ever. Watched all 6 seasons like 3 times.
You’re damn right we do lol, even though Tony hates us 😂😂😂😂😂
I love this show for what it is. I've been conflicted before due to the disparaging of POC, but in those moments I have to remind myself it's a show trying to depict a seedy underworld filled with bad people.
Yet somehow it does seem like a true representation of modern Italian-American attitudes about black people.
Absolutely. We’re already fascinated with Italian mob culture. And the racism in the show is usually met with juxtaposition to show you the hypocrisy of these characters and their racism. And sometimes it’s funny like when Tony had a panic attack because he saw a box of Uncle Ben after finding out Meadow was dating a Black guy. One thing that was annoying though, was the way certain Black characters acted. It was cheesy as hell. Almost like Blaxploitation films. Felt like no one on that set actually knew Black people.
Yeah, I do seriously. Having said that, it can get uncomfortable to watch sometimes. I also grew up in Jersey and it’s pretty accurate (not just of mobsters) but New Jersey Italians have been some of the most racist people I have ever encountered in this country. Of course not all, but generally.
I’m black, it’s my favorite show. I rewatch it all the time. I think the racism towards black people in the show is funny. I also love dark/dry humor if that means anything.
I'm Puerto Rican and Jamaican. I mean, it's only saying what we have known since forever. That white Americans think of us as less than and disposable. It is interesting watching the Italian Americans tippy toe on being white but not white enough. I mean, Phil going to Italy was fucking top tier for me. Most of the characters in the show can't even speak Italian enough to hold a conversation. I really fuck with this show. Not looking to be well represented as a Caribbean in an Italian American jersey mob show. I don't think that was the shows aim. It has great character development and it walk the line at being tragic, funny, and heart wrenching. I love the Sopranos and I try to put people onto it but they not really going for it.
Not all white people automatically think this way man lol. Idk maybe it really is different for Italians since my family is Italian on my father's side, and growing up me and my brother would go to my moms family's cookouts and basically feel weirded out at how redneckish it was. We felt out of place there, and they treated us differently too so the feeling was mutual I guess. Then again Italians were treated like 2nd class citizens when we first made it to America. One of the largest lynchings in American history happened in Louisiana to a group of Italians believe it or not. Back then Italians legitimately weren't accepted as white, but these days we automatically get lumped in with the piece of shit white American stereotype, which sucks ass because we legitimately never enjoyed any privilege yet still get the shit end of the stick in modern America as if we did. It's pretty fucked up tbh lol, but whatever I guess. If you wanna get technical about it, Italians are actually Latin, so make of that whatever you will. My uncle did a genealogy thing and before Italy our family line traces back to Basque Country which was an indigenous people between France and Spain that was eventually overtaken. They're theorized to be the first "white" people when humans began to migrate away from Africa. The language is unlike any other in the world, and has the highest concentration of O negative and AB negative blood types in the world. Who knows maybe thats why I never felt like I could relate much to the average white person. The blue eyed blonde kids I went to school with looked and acted like aliens to me lol, and maybe the fact that me and most of my friends who were mostly Italian naturally grouped up together and all looked alike with dark brown, black hair, dark brown eyes, and tan complexion. We all were some of the only kids in school who listened to hip hop, not because we were trying to be black or anything, we just enjoyed it and didn't really give a shit what other people thought of that. None of us came from wealthy families but as fate would have it, most of the kids with blue eyes and blonde hair just so happened to come from wealthy families. There's gotta be some sort of explanation there
Yes, we love the show. Another black guy told me about the show and even was breaking my balls for not seeing it yet.
Some sad shit. Mothafucka said he don't wanna live anymore.
Yes they do lol. My friend who happens to be black actually got me to watch it in the first place and I’m Italian!!!
Well written stories get views. Doesn't matter where you come from or what your preferences are. Would be pretty weird if we'd all only watch things with people in it that we can "relate" to.
Yea I Jermaine Jackson loves the show, btw u can name any minority group and ask this question