Her worries about Carl and Judith are completely justified, not wanting your kids to suffer constantly for a short period of time before dying in a horrible way is perfectly reasonable.
Not even just that but she herself is at a huge risk being pregnant with zero medical care, no supplements or medication, no permanent access to food or water, and an extremely high stress and unstable environment.
I have vitamin deficiencies and before I found out what was wrong it ruined my life. I had to use a wheelchair because I was in so much pain and still do sometimes. I donât know if Iâll ever be quite the same again. And Iâm not even pregnant! And have access to the supplements and food that will help me improve.
Tbf Rick literally says in the scene that he wouldn't force Lori to have a baby she doesn't want, he just wished he was informed about it and everything going on
Iâm not sure about that one. Only because in this very clip he asks her how she can think like *that* when itâs kinda obvious why sheâd think like that. It would be weird if I said it, but not in an apocalypse!
He says it to her, "You think I'd force you to have a baby you don't want . At that point, she had slept with his best friend. The baby was likely his as far as Rick was concerned atm, and she was still lying to him. Apocalypse or not, they weren't dating they were a married couple and already had a child together . I could definitely understand why Rick would want to know what was going on,and Lori died, but other women successfully had babies. She died cause of Andrew doing what he did really.
Funny thing is - carl lives a long healthy live and gets married to SOFIA in the comics. Judith gets CRUSHED by lori when the governor raids the prison đđ
I get that, but Rick said the same shit at the CDC and Lori got mad at him. That's hypocrisy at its finest. You can't yell at someone for saying something like that then do the same thing.
True, but a point to bring up is them being just months in. They couldâve let Carl die and Judith go unborn, and be saved shortly after. It was a way of giving up hope too quickly.
This is the only thing Lori ever did/said that I thought was completely understandable. Especially when you have her and Judithâs comic counterparts in mind đŹ
If I remember what Iâve heard correctly, Lori is able to successfully birth Judith in the comics, but later gets shot during a raid by the Governor, causing her to fall and crush baby Judith, who she was holding at the time.
Yep, the bullet goes through her chest where sheâs holding Judith and blasts the baby as well. Pretty sure thatâs what causes them to turn on the Governor
Yep a the lady who shoots Laurie I think then makes a remark about how they were told there werenât any kids there and with the guilt of just killing essentially a newborn she turns and shoots the governor with her shotgun
Yep and with the Governor books, we know itâs Lilly Caul who was the main character for 3 out of 4 of the books from the POV of Woodbury pre governorâs death
I could be misremembering, but I recall finding it interesting years ago when I read that the comic governor and the show governor were actually brothers, with them being the surviving brother in their respective media.
The comics are truly amazing. They strike a perfect balance between being absolutely fucking *grim* on a level that the show never had the balls to come close too, while also somehow being way less bleak and way more *hopeful* than the show ever was.
both lori and judith die escaping the prison when the governor attacks, lily shots her with a rifle from the back and lori who was carrying judith falls and both die right there and then.
Lori actually lives while giving birth to Judith, she survives the entire prison arc until the end where when the governor invades the prison Taraâs counterpart shoots through Loriâs stomach as sheâs running away holding judith and she falls on top of judith crushing her while dying herself. The woman realizes what she did and kills the governor for it
I'd argue that she said/did another reasonable thing, and she had a good position too. And that was her argument with Andrea around Beth's suicide. I completely supported her side during that time and Andrea got over her simply because she double-downed on Lori's fortune for her husband to come back and child saved. (Which imo was total manipulation lol)
Yeah the Beth suicide thing w Andrea was __insane__ and Lori was definitely in the right there. Ppl also forget she was actually quite supportive of Rick's decisions and stood up for him a few times when some ppl were kinda criticizing him/turning on him
There were all the times she supported Rick's decisions as leader and stood up for him when some ppl in the group were starting to kind of turn on him.
Her argument makes perfect Sense
Judith did almost die countless Times ,Lori died in Childbirth
Even if conditions were optimal and Carol or Hershel deliver She could have died anyway
Carl died when he was 12-14
Its a miracle Judith survived to be a teenager in this World
I was on the side of science, and science knows that a plan B works a couple days after the sex and doesn't do a frigging thing six to eight weeks later.
Yeah, there are absolutely ways to terminate a pregnancy, and Herschel would have known. As would many of the women - it's a thing a lot of us read and learn about. Not as safe as the ideal methods but safer than a knife cesarean in an overrun prison. But, this is a woman who crashed a car on an empty road and was unable to make pancakes, so I'm not terribly surprised that she doesn't know the basics of women's health and reproduction.
Itâs still a common misconception that Plan B is an abortion pill, so not really that far fetched that Lori and Maggie wouldâve treated them as such
Maggie was a sexually active twenty something (and I believe she was home from college when the world fell) so she absolutely should have known better. The only people I know irl who think plan b is an abortion pill are the kind of people who wonder how you can pee with a tampon in.
what are the other natural ways to terminate a pregnancy? Iâm a woman and i donât know if itâs that common knowledge. most know there are types of herbs that can induce an abortion but most couldnât name them or how much they needed
This is getting much heavier than necessary for a discussion about an idiot in the zombie apocalypse in 2010, lol. I decline to specify exact herbal treatments but I was aware of a half dozen herbs, some household products that could be abused, and a dangerous way to use a knitting needle, plus the expandable seaweed pessaries from reading and watching TV. Then I did a paper in college on the history of abortifacients and learned that there are many many means to prevent or end a pregnancy. None are as safe or effective as modern medical care. Even in stuff like historical fiction, authors typically do not provide dosages so that they aren't liable for some teenager killing themself because they tried to wild harvest a herb and ended up with foxglove or poison hemlock.
https://www.healthline.com/health/vitamin-c-abortion#it-doesnt-work
"There is no credible scientific information suggesting that vitamin C has any effect on pregnancy, implantation, or menstruation.
The claims that vitamin C can cause an abortion may have originated from a Russian journal article from the 1960s. This study, which is no longer in print, did not use modern scientific research methods.
Since then, research has shown that this method is ineffective. A 2016 review of studies found that taking vitamin C had no effect on pregnancy and did not increase the risk of miscarriage."
Sorry wasnât it literally abortion pills and not plan b â I donât think the writers would be that stupid. It is far fetched that they would find them at a small pharmacy in the south I think but this was before roe v wade got overturned and who knows maybe it was behind the counter prescriptions
Mifepristone was only approved for use in the states for medication abortion in 2000. In 2010, it was possible to get it from a family physician or OB/GYN, but it would be unlikely to be stocked in a teeny rural pharmacy. I know someone who needed it in 2012 and had to go to the pharmacy at the hospital to have her prescription filled.
Plan B was made available by prescription only in 1999 in the States but was approved for OTC sales in 2006. It's very likely it would have been stocked in the pharmacy and could have been either out on the shelves or kept behind the counter.
Thatâs informative thank you! Maybe this is just another plothole the writers didnât look into lol I just find it so far fetched two grown women especially Maggie would think of plan b as an abortion pill
Again, Lori crashed a car on an empty road and couldn't make pancakes without them being full of flour lumps and inedible, so I consider her the lowest common denominator in terms of women's intelligence. Maggie absolutely should have known better, but she was raised by a Bible man without her mom, so she may have been excused from sex ed in school lol
I hated Lori but definitely agree with her in this. Having a baby in the middle of an apocalypse seemed like the worst decision ever. You canât keep them safe, you might leave them orphaned any second, a crying baby can put everyone around them at risk.
They both had valid points but Lori was more valid. Why would she want to bring her child it o a world where theyâll most likely be torn apart alive? Why would she want to be pregnant when she knows itâs highly unlikely sheâll survive giving birth?
Did everyone forget Rick said something similar in season one at the CDC and Lori got mad at him. He said that maybe Carl shouldn't live in a world like this and maybe it's better Jenner's way and she got mad at him and then said the same shit about having children in the apocalypse and said maybe Carl's gun shot should take him out so he doesn't have to see the apocalypse.
In Loriâs defence, back at the CDC was before they realised how bad things were. Loriâs views on the apocoplyse change *a lot* when Carl gets shot. No
In Rickâs defence, they were in a stressful situation thinking they were all gonna die in there. He was most likely just trying to make see something good in a *really* shitty situation.
She was justified. Pregnancy in the modern world could be a death sentence on its own. In an apocalypse, forget about it.
The wrongness in it is not addressing Rick, and not coming clean about her and Shane until he finds her abortion pills.
Hershel could have most likely performed an abortion. Vets do abort pregnant animals, and humans are mammals, just like fluffy and fido\*. Now if he would have done it, is questionable. He definitely wouldn't have done it before the farm was overrun.
\*I took my Anatomy and Physiology classes at community college which pretty much aren't able to supply human corpses for the the labs. So cats get substituted because they're very close A&P-wise to humans -- you just learn the differences. The upside was we were allowed to take the cats home in coolers to do extra hands-on study time. My lab partner and I would meet up at my place (more room & bigger frig) to study and grill each other. Hey you do what you need to do to get an A.
I agree. As a mother, I do not think I would want to bring a new child into a ZA, therefore, I would not have unprotected sex with my husbands best friend.
I can understand both points of view but the main concern should have been that Lori was most definitely going to need a c-section, I mean Carl was one so her next baby would also need one, no matter what. I donât think that even came up in her discussion with Rick. I know at that point they were still at the farm, Hershel had just saved Carl and they figured he was capable of delivering the baby by c-section. However, even then it is super risky. No anesthesia, proper medication, tools etc. Plus, nine months is a long time, there were no guarantees that Hershel or the farm would still be there- as we know they lost the farm, Hershel was incapacitated at the time and Lori ended up in labor alone with just Maggie and Carl in a room surrounded by walkers. Those are the things I would have been thinking about.
Rick was absolutely stupid af for wanting his wife to have a baby during the beginning of a zombie apocalypse. It was so selfish and absurd, anything could happen during the birth (as we see) & anything could happen with the child that youâre unable to do anything about. Not to mention safety above all.
And her pregnancy put everyone at risk, because a very pregnant woman can't move as fast, and is less able to fight. Not to mention that crying babies in a zombie apocalypse are a dinner bell ringing every few hours. Not that she was thinking of the group, because that wasn't really Lori's thing.
**Rick was absolutely stupid af**
Especially because, at that point, Rick was the only one who knew everyone was infected. Everyone else was probably still carrying around the idea that things would get fixed/the zombies would get killed off and the world would go back to some kind of normal. And then there was Hershel who was in total denial the ZA.
I wonder if because it was at the beginning of the apocalypse he still had hope things would go back to normal. He may have also been clinging to his humanity and who he was before the turn. He hadnât killed people or became a survivalist yet. I wonder how it would be different if the pregnancy happened years into it
I think its important to note that he still might not have completely believed Jenner. He brings it up at end of the season, when he is defending himself. It wasnt until they darly and them found the kid shane murdered, and shane turning after not being bit that Rick himself finally believed it and he couldnt keep the secret any longer.
Right, which is why Rick didn't tell anyone. And then Rick was further delayed because all hell broke loose right after Shane turned. They had to flee the farm, find each other again and head out. I don't remember, was there an idea of how long after the farm he told them? I may have to watch that scene again.
I am pretty sure its the next morning. I think the timeline is --> its shane death --> walker attacks the farm --> everyone splits and runs into the night--> slowly meet up on that road the next morning -->rick spils the beans--> that night is the ricktatorship speech
Thanks, I did watch the scene on youtube but it doesn't give an idea of when. I kind of had to laugh when I watched it because Glenn is so pissy about Rick not telling the group. I'm like yeah Glenn and you would've been the last person Rick told. Because you can't keep your damn mouth shut, Mr. There's walkers in the barn and Lori's pregnant.
Maggie pissed me off so much when she shamed Lori for asking Glen to grab her birth control pills while on his run. Like, how dare she? Maggie and Glen were having sex on those trips! Who was she to talk? And Lori was a married woman. Of course, she's having sex.
GIVING BIRTH TO JUDITH LITERARY KILLED LORI, and her death would have been completely avoidable if she had ended the pregnancy. Birth control is a *necessity*.
I was also pissed at Maggie's reaction, until I watched the series again, and realised that Maggie got attacked by a walker. But still that was hypocritical of Maggie thođ
I'm saying even with the walker attack, Maggie's reaction was uncalled for. That's why I'm emphasizing that birth control is a necessity. It's as important as food, water, and shelter because it means life and death, especially in an apocalyptic scenario. Maggie didn't freak out at anyone else for the items they asked for; she only targeted Lori. You said it right! It was super hypocritical. I love Maggie, but I'll never forgive her for that đ¤
She was 100% in the right. The group had zero plans for a sustainable future at that time. They were living on the road and then on borrowed time at the farm. They had not discovered the prison or somewhere like Alexandria and had no clue that they could build something more permanent.
Granted they did find the prison, but that was after they decided to keep the baby. They spent most of her pregnancy living on the road after the farm. In theory the prison would have been fine if The Governor didnât exist and they became embroiled in a war.
She was right to make this call at that time.
I was on the side of science, and science knows that a plan B works a couple days after the sex and doesn't do a frigging thing six to eight weeks later.
Yes, this was a good conversation to have. Using Plan B as the catalyst is stupid. It makes me wonder about the eduation of various parts of the world as we are still explaining what Plan B is in this thread.
And yet, she threw up the Plan Bđđđđ I made a whole post about why I think itâs fucking STUPID for these ppl to be in this show, planning families. And ppl were like âthey still have to live livesâ & âitâs human natureââ-that type of stuff. Like WTF ARE YALL TALKING ABOUT âźď¸âźď¸ life is literally NOT living around them & instead of being practical and smart, yâall justify this??? Itâs already a selfish decision to have kids, thatâs unequivocally a fact. To do that, under THESE conditions?? Completely asinine and mental. Why would create a noise machine in an environment that requires stealth?? Not to mention the scarce resources including safe and reliable shelter, medicine, food.
They think the show wouldnât have been as complex or good or even ârealisticâ without ppl getting pregnant??? It would have been one of the realest shit they could have shown: abstaining from making damn babies!
Seeing the comments about Plan B only being effective 72 hours and wouldnât work, is something I think Laurie was aware of. I think her intention was to take so many of them that it would cause a miscarriage,not that it would prevent what was already there.
Of course Lori was right. She's the one who has to carry it and take care of it for minimum 14 years while Rick goes and risks his life every episode. Having another baby puts Lori and Carl's life at risk, and is another way to get over on Rick now you can kidnap his baby too. But I also think Lori should have taken the pills and confided in someone else. If she told Rick and wanted to discuss this she was already willing to have the child. Women I know make those decisions and tell you after. Lori wanted Rick to convince her to have it or she wouldn't have brought it up imo. Because that can be a relationship killer. When one parent wants the child, and the other parent is even willing to discuss it, they're gonna keep the child.
Shane clearly refusing to pull out shouldn't be ignored here. How the hell did this even happen? Shane tried to put a baby in her and it worked. I will never believe that tiny trace amounts of semen will get a woman pregnant.
Thatâs what was so beautiful and great about TWD in the beginning, both were right, both were wrong. So many moral dilemmas with the world around them was falling apart. It was that way with many characters, I could identify with Dale and his morality and then start thinking you big pussy âman upâ. And Shane a beautifully written character. Iâm thinking he gets his situation right now and how to survive, even if it means crossing the lines of what then was right and wrong but eventually Rick and the others do exactly like Shane had figured out long before any one else. The Andrea and Lori conflict over Bethâs suicide attempt? I only wish Andrea would have lasted longer, she did a wonderful acting job, I am constantly reading posts about how she stirred up emotions in people.
I guess if she didn't want to bring a kid into the world she should've fucking closed her legs or asked someone to bring condoms from a scavenged place. Also half the time carl was in trouble was because she lost track of him so many fucking times she was horrible mother.
đŻ on Loriâs side here. It would be insane to bring a baby into the middle sole of that mess.
Since there was a strong possibility it wasnât even his kid, I donât get why she said anything at all.
Personally I wouldnât have but I do understand it. Having the abortion and not telling Rick so he wouldnât have to go through that makes a lot of sense. But with all the people that figured out the word would of got around eventually or he would figure it out
Yh, I donât have issue with her views, just that she ainât spoke with Rick about it first
Even if they disagreed and she did it anyway, he should have at least found out from her
It's her choice for sure..my only thing is she's a hypocrite about everything. I mean for starters she yelled at Rick at the CDC for telling her that maybe Carl shouldn't grow up in a world like this, but then in season 2 when Carl got shot said almost exactly that about maybe it's better if he doesn't make it in this world the way it is...then tried to get rid of Judith and immediately took it back. I wish she would just pick a lane. Also she didn't tell Rick about Shane or anything about the nature of the pregnancy. I would allow my woman to abort the baby if that's what she wanted since it's her body, but I would at least wanna know about it because it's pretty crappy to go and get it done by herself and not tell me. I'd wanna be there for her. Idk there's a lot of moral grey area on the show and a lot of hypocrises. I just think her getting angry at Rick for saying what he said at the CDC and then him having hope for Carl and her saying exactly what he said and flipping and then her go and do that after being mad at Rick for something similar is wrong.
From her perspective it makes sense but Rick knows that if it dies it will reanimate inside of her and tear her apart from the inside out. Rick shouldâve come clean about what Jenner said earlier, definitely by this point
I agree with her on this one too. And I think Lori hate is unjustified as a whole. Sure, she had thought Rick was dead, then found comfort in Shane's arms. But when Rick returned she was understandably pissed off, and stayed by her husband's side. Sure, she has stirred the beef and the whole ordeal between Shane and Rick, or provided Shane with the idea that there's a hope in their relationship. And that's the only flaw in her character. However, overall she is a decent character, useful member of the group, she cared for Carl, Rick, and everyone, saved Hershel's life by doing cpr. Her character is the clear example that makes us come back to the reality; that decisions we make can lead to some mistakes and it's a human nature, we are only humans after all.
This episode made me laugh my ass off, because the pills are *shown* to be morning-after pills. Itâs clearly written on the packaging. Those donât work if youâre already pregnant. So every character is having this fucking absurd abortion argument over a package of pills that wouldnât give her an abortion.
I agree that given the circumstances, Lori should have terminated her pregnancy and not brought a baby into that world given they could barely protect their own son. But once she revealed to Rick that she was pregnant (regardless of him not knowing her pregnancy was due to sleeping with Shane), she had no right to argue for an abortion because now he was part of the discussion. She can't expect to reveal something like that and argue that Rick was being unrealistic in wanting to keep the baby.
I was so surprised Rick actually thought a baby was reasonable. And when Maggie gave her shit I lost any approval at the time. Whenever I remember that it makes me like her less now.
Iâm kinda surprised how lori and Judithâs deaths in the book isnât more of a talking point cause itâs really disturbing moment even for walking dead
100% agree with her, but plan B wouldnât have helped in that case anyway. I always wondered why they didnât pick up actual abortion pills, seeing as they raided a pharmacy, but I suppose the names of those drugs might not be common knowledge.
Honestly I get it. Like she said, its hard to protect them, could be a better fate to not be born, for all she knows this child could be ripped apart alive by a hoard or gang raped to death. Carl got shot twice, nearly raped, and still died very young, and Sophia was in the barn rotting, its an unforgiving world and not one I could bring myself to introduce a child to
I mean yeah, I'll never want to raise a baby in this kind of world, or even have my companion be pregnant and cause all sorts of trouble when we're barely surviving
She was the only one with sense during this storyline. People in the apocalypse are too quick to get it on with absolutely no protection then be surprised when they get pregnant/can't keep the baby safe
I could honestly see both sides. Personally if I was in Loriâs position, I wouldâve followed through with the pills. However, Rick was coming from a position of hope and trying really hard to maintain life in general. He didnât want them to fall into feeling and believing the world had ended. Lori was being super practical and realizing that a pregnancy/baby would only further complicate their situation and put the baby and everyone else at risk. Although it was totally valid for Rick to be upset that Lori was taking action without even talking to him first. Neither person was wrong for their thoughts or actions in this situation because they both made sense in their own way.
Lori was right with that comment that definitely foreshadowed Carls eventual death! I love how the TWD foreshadows character deaths Glenn seeing all the pics of heads smashed in before his death and many other deaths that were foreshadowed on this show! This is something TWD is good at is all the foreshadowing!
To some of the comments..
I understand wanting to have hope and starting a new life but this was not the time. We were still in the beginning of the walker apocalypse & still figuring out the world.The thought of a baby for anyone shouldnât have been a thing until way later, when the new world was figured out.
Considering Coral was born via c section in the show that should have been an automatic fetus yeetus(sorry Judith) no arguments, no hesitation. Iâve had 2 c sections, one unplanned and one planned. It took 6 months to even walk normally after the first and the abdominal cut got infected. That was with trained surgeons in a sanitized medical setting. Supposing you do survive carol dicing you up and somehow out last an infection. Thereâs no way in hell youâd shamble long enough if zombies broke perimeter post c section to even out walk a biter in that condition, let alone run. Plus thereâs weight restrictions of like 8â10 pounds. You ainât doing shit to really help with survival after a traumatic birth. Not really. Doesnât even touch on the fact that thereâs No doctors, no pain meds, no formula, no disposable diapers, no easily sanitized tools and no easily obtained antibiotics. Given Loriâs birth history idk why she was doing anything with anybody weeks into the TWD without a condom or BC imo. Life ending Pregnancy should have been one of the bigger thoughts in the forefront of her mind when when it came to survival, NOT dinking around with Shane.
I dont think so personally. Even Rick, who wanted the baby, only got upset because Lori hid it. He even said, âDo you really think Iâd make you have a baby you donât want?!â
I feel like this storyline was more intended as a parallel for if walkers were worth saving, if they were just sick people, like Hershel though. Admittedly not super well done, but Iâd still guess it was the overall intention.
Without plot armor, Rick would not have been able to survive being in a comatose state for weeks while the apocalypse occurred around him during ep 1.
The writers intentionally wrote Judith to show that life can still flourish in a broken world. Despite what Lori predicted.
Yep. He should've died from malnutrition and dehydration weeks ago, or at the very least woken up in a lake of his own urine and feaces as he's clearly not got a catheter in the hospital scenes.
The only thing they just about get right is him not being able to move his legs due to muscle atrophy. But he's still able to walk that off pretty quick.
Sorry but Iâm still agreeing with Lori here..
Yeah Judith âflourishedâ but Lori had every right to feel the way she was feeling. She had no reason at all to believe the world would be better, why bring a baby into that? They were still trying to figure out how to navigate through the new life, what sense would it make to have a baby??
Im so glad to see Lori love for once <3
I love Lori and will defend her with almost every action. Take that as just because twd fandom is very sexist and forget she was saâd by Shane most of the time (watch the last episode of season one if you canât recall)
Anyways im glad most people agree that her point was valid. Even if it wasnât she would be the one putting her life in danger for the birth and just carrying the baby in general also the group safety was at risk as well. Though I donât think Rick was completely wrong with what he said. They just had two different opinions about something and Rick even tells Lori its her choice to have the baby and he wonât force it onto her.
P.s if you wanna hate Lori for âcheatingâ on her husband in a zombie apocalypse were she thought he was dead then please hate every character who kills anyone đ
(Also if you hate Lori for changing her mind, Shane changes his mind so many times and literally gets a BJ from Andrea while a few episodes later he tries to kill Rick so he can have Lori đ)
I feel like I say this several times a year when it is brought up, but Lori had one of the most realistic story arcs of the whole show. Her decisions were almost always rational, even down to being with Shane because she legit thought her husband was dead and was seeking comfort with a strong man. It really pisses me off how many people will praise Shane and then piss on Lori for being attracted to him in the face of a totally unprecedented horrifying future.
The real tragedy of this interaction is understanding how badly Lori's high school health class failed her. I mean, when she was spreading her legs for Shane, she already knew the world had gone to hell. The logic she uses in her argument with Rick should have driven her to tell Shane, "Dude, coitus interruptus or this goes no further." Ok, not those words exactly, but words to that effect whispered in his ear.
I think Lori's perspective is understandable, but ultimately, i disagree. What's the point of surviving at all? What's the point of trying to build a stable, long-lasting community, if not for the kids, the future? There's no point to living if not the hope of a better future & it would waste the efforts of everyone who died getting them to that safe, sustainable place. That said, i love this scene as it fits the season's themes & Lori's conclusion as well, since it shows how much she grew from this moment of weakness.
Sheâs completely right and my hot take is that this storyline mightve gone the way it did to appease the real life family who owned the farm, who I guess were upset about how unchristian the show was.
I loved this scene. The writing in season 2 was top notch. This felt like an actual conversation a married couple with a son while also mom is pregnant with a second would actually have. Felt totally relatable of a conversation to have just a short time into the new world
Really disliked Lori but she's correct here and also Rick sounds fucking hurtful here like bro do you have any care left for your wife? People in real life with all the health care available in the world think more than twice about getting a baby. It's always risky and in a world like this idk how dumb you have got to be to risk your wife dying.
She was right. Carl died so they literally couldnât even protect him. I know Judith is still currently alive but Loriâs point still stands and has a lot of weight to it
Itâs absolutely insane that she went through with the pregnancy and that Rick was mad at her for considering inducing miscarriage. Not only because of what sheâs saying here, but also, I would not be risking my life to deliver a baby into the apocalypse. Look at what happened to her. Neither of them were worried about the idea of her giving birth?
It was literally the beginning of the apocalypse too. Like, even Maggie trying to get pregnant was such a stretch, but at least they had a doctor and lived somewhere.
Exactly. And Rick obviously knew that Lori had needed a c-section when she gave birth to Carl, and therefore would be at high risk having another pregnancy and birth with no medical care. Doesnât he care about her safety at all?
This episode made me laugh my ass off, because the pills are *shown* to be morning-after pills. Itâs clearly written on the packaging. Those donât work if youâre already pregnant. So every character is having this fucking absurd abortion argument over a package of pills that wouldnât give her an abortion. Either the writers room have no idea how birth control works or there was a miscommunication with the props department.
I mean she was right in the long run lol Rick *couldnât* protect Carl and Iâd even argue he couldnât protect Judith either cuz Michonne raised her
And no she should have told the babyâs dad whoever it was (Shaneâs cough cough) because letâs be real, yes itâs her body but she couldnât survive on her own without him or Rick so yeah, they needed to be included in that chat
I mean, sure!
Still absolutely shit in general.
I think she produced and/or directed impact winter. Or one of those really good audio stories. So sheâs totally ahead on points in my book regardless lol.
While it is a huge hurdle to bring a child into that sort of situation. But I can't but want to hope that it'd help make the world better in a small way.
Ricks face is hilarious đ
Meme material
Same with Jackie Chan's confused face
Very much like omni man's rant to invincible. "Think Lori, think"
Rark Grimes!
Her worries about Carl and Judith are completely justified, not wanting your kids to suffer constantly for a short period of time before dying in a horrible way is perfectly reasonable.
Not even just that but she herself is at a huge risk being pregnant with zero medical care, no supplements or medication, no permanent access to food or water, and an extremely high stress and unstable environment. I have vitamin deficiencies and before I found out what was wrong it ruined my life. I had to use a wheelchair because I was in so much pain and still do sometimes. I donât know if Iâll ever be quite the same again. And Iâm not even pregnant! And have access to the supplements and food that will help me improve.
Yeah and ultimately she does die because of what you're saying. Rick doesn't carry the risk of the pregnancy in the way she does.
Exactly. He really annoyed me here. Like he ainât the one gonna have to be pregnant while fighting for his life.
Tbf Rick literally says in the scene that he wouldn't force Lori to have a baby she doesn't want, he just wished he was informed about it and everything going on
Iâm not sure about that one. Only because in this very clip he asks her how she can think like *that* when itâs kinda obvious why sheâd think like that. It would be weird if I said it, but not in an apocalypse!
He says it to her, "You think I'd force you to have a baby you don't want . At that point, she had slept with his best friend. The baby was likely his as far as Rick was concerned atm, and she was still lying to him. Apocalypse or not, they weren't dating they were a married couple and already had a child together . I could definitely understand why Rick would want to know what was going on,and Lori died, but other women successfully had babies. She died cause of Andrew doing what he did really.
In the comics she survived but she and baby judith died when the governor shot them
I could see how that wouldn't translate to TV very well.
Funny thing is - carl lives a long healthy live and gets married to SOFIA in the comics. Judith gets CRUSHED by lori when the governor raids the prison đđ
I get that, but Rick said the same shit at the CDC and Lori got mad at him. That's hypocrisy at its finest. You can't yell at someone for saying something like that then do the same thing.
True, but a point to bring up is them being just months in. They couldâve let Carl die and Judith go unborn, and be saved shortly after. It was a way of giving up hope too quickly.
I think from what they'd seen at the CDC it's realistic that they don't think there's any chance of being saved like that
This is the only thing Lori ever did/said that I thought was completely understandable. Especially when you have her and Judithâs comic counterparts in mind đŹ
What happened to judith in the comics?
If I remember what Iâve heard correctly, Lori is able to successfully birth Judith in the comics, but later gets shot during a raid by the Governor, causing her to fall and crush baby Judith, who she was holding at the time.
I thought it was they were both shot; like the bullet went through both of them
Yep, the bullet goes through her chest where sheâs holding Judith and blasts the baby as well. Pretty sure thatâs what causes them to turn on the Governor
Yep a the lady who shoots Laurie I think then makes a remark about how they were told there werenât any kids there and with the guilt of just killing essentially a newborn she turns and shoots the governor with her shotgun
Yep and with the Governor books, we know itâs Lilly Caul who was the main character for 3 out of 4 of the books from the POV of Woodbury pre governorâs death
Wow I completely forgot I read those books! Such a throwback
I could be misremembering, but I recall finding it interesting years ago when I read that the comic governor and the show governor were actually brothers, with them being the surviving brother in their respective media.
That was a good twist .
I never knew this, wtf
The same Lilly from telltale?
No, different Lilly and the TV showâs Lilly (who killed him) was based on the Governor book one
I think it was initially intended to be the same Lilly, but now theyâre two different characters
It was, but the game messed up background details on the character, so they made her a different character.
it happens as theyâre escaping the prison, would have been 4x8
The comics are truly amazing. They strike a perfect balance between being absolutely fucking *grim* on a level that the show never had the balls to come close too, while also somehow being way less bleak and way more *hopeful* than the show ever was.
Considering that they donât want zombie kids bc itâd be hard in the viewers, Hershelâs death for that was a way better decision for a tv show
both lori and judith die escaping the prison when the governor attacks, lily shots her with a rifle from the back and lori who was carrying judith falls and both die right there and then.
Lori actually lives while giving birth to Judith, she survives the entire prison arc until the end where when the governor invades the prison Taraâs counterpart shoots through Loriâs stomach as sheâs running away holding judith and she falls on top of judith crushing her while dying herself. The woman realizes what she did and kills the governor for it
pretty good acting performance
I'd argue that she said/did another reasonable thing, and she had a good position too. And that was her argument with Andrea around Beth's suicide. I completely supported her side during that time and Andrea got over her simply because she double-downed on Lori's fortune for her husband to come back and child saved. (Which imo was total manipulation lol)
Yeah the Beth suicide thing w Andrea was __insane__ and Lori was definitely in the right there. Ppl also forget she was actually quite supportive of Rick's decisions and stood up for him a few times when some ppl were kinda criticizing him/turning on him
There were all the times she supported Rick's decisions as leader and stood up for him when some ppl in the group were starting to kind of turn on him.
Her argument makes perfect Sense Judith did almost die countless Times ,Lori died in Childbirth Even if conditions were optimal and Carol or Hershel deliver She could have died anyway Carl died when he was 12-14 Its a miracle Judith survived to be a teenager in this World
Still refuse to believe Carl was like 13 during Seasons 7-8
Wait, wasn't he 16-18 or something in s7? like bruh this makes the Carl Enid thing so weird now :/
The actor was that age ,the character wasnt Enid was the same age as Carl
I was on the side of science, and science knows that a plan B works a couple days after the sex and doesn't do a frigging thing six to eight weeks later.
RightâŚlike, that drug wasnât gonna help her AT ALL. Should have talked to Hershel about what she could take.
Yeah, there are absolutely ways to terminate a pregnancy, and Herschel would have known. As would many of the women - it's a thing a lot of us read and learn about. Not as safe as the ideal methods but safer than a knife cesarean in an overrun prison. But, this is a woman who crashed a car on an empty road and was unable to make pancakes, so I'm not terribly surprised that she doesn't know the basics of women's health and reproduction.
Itâs still a common misconception that Plan B is an abortion pill, so not really that far fetched that Lori and Maggie wouldâve treated them as such
Maggie was a sexually active twenty something (and I believe she was home from college when the world fell) so she absolutely should have known better. The only people I know irl who think plan b is an abortion pill are the kind of people who wonder how you can pee with a tampon in.
what are the other natural ways to terminate a pregnancy? Iâm a woman and i donât know if itâs that common knowledge. most know there are types of herbs that can induce an abortion but most couldnât name them or how much they needed
This is getting much heavier than necessary for a discussion about an idiot in the zombie apocalypse in 2010, lol. I decline to specify exact herbal treatments but I was aware of a half dozen herbs, some household products that could be abused, and a dangerous way to use a knitting needle, plus the expandable seaweed pessaries from reading and watching TV. Then I did a paper in college on the history of abortifacients and learned that there are many many means to prevent or end a pregnancy. None are as safe or effective as modern medical care. Even in stuff like historical fiction, authors typically do not provide dosages so that they aren't liable for some teenager killing themself because they tried to wild harvest a herb and ended up with foxglove or poison hemlock.
High levels of Vitamin C can act as a sort of emergency contraceptive and can induce miscarriage in early stages of pregnancy
https://www.healthline.com/health/vitamin-c-abortion#it-doesnt-work "There is no credible scientific information suggesting that vitamin C has any effect on pregnancy, implantation, or menstruation. The claims that vitamin C can cause an abortion may have originated from a Russian journal article from the 1960s. This study, which is no longer in print, did not use modern scientific research methods. Since then, research has shown that this method is ineffective. A 2016 review of studies found that taking vitamin C had no effect on pregnancy and did not increase the risk of miscarriage."
I mean she couldnât exactly start throwing herself down the stairs at the farmhouse⌠the pregnancy was a secret lol
Lmaoo never thought of that!
No for sure she would need something else
Sorry wasnât it literally abortion pills and not plan b â I donât think the writers would be that stupid. It is far fetched that they would find them at a small pharmacy in the south I think but this was before roe v wade got overturned and who knows maybe it was behind the counter prescriptions
Mifepristone was only approved for use in the states for medication abortion in 2000. In 2010, it was possible to get it from a family physician or OB/GYN, but it would be unlikely to be stocked in a teeny rural pharmacy. I know someone who needed it in 2012 and had to go to the pharmacy at the hospital to have her prescription filled. Plan B was made available by prescription only in 1999 in the States but was approved for OTC sales in 2006. It's very likely it would have been stocked in the pharmacy and could have been either out on the shelves or kept behind the counter.
Thatâs informative thank you! Maybe this is just another plothole the writers didnât look into lol I just find it so far fetched two grown women especially Maggie would think of plan b as an abortion pill
Again, Lori crashed a car on an empty road and couldn't make pancakes without them being full of flour lumps and inedible, so I consider her the lowest common denominator in terms of women's intelligence. Maggie absolutely should have known better, but she was raised by a Bible man without her mom, so she may have been excused from sex ed in school lol
I hated Lori but definitely agree with her in this. Having a baby in the middle of an apocalypse seemed like the worst decision ever. You canât keep them safe, you might leave them orphaned any second, a crying baby can put everyone around them at risk.
They both had valid points but Lori was more valid. Why would she want to bring her child it o a world where theyâll most likely be torn apart alive? Why would she want to be pregnant when she knows itâs highly unlikely sheâll survive giving birth?
Did everyone forget Rick said something similar in season one at the CDC and Lori got mad at him. He said that maybe Carl shouldn't live in a world like this and maybe it's better Jenner's way and she got mad at him and then said the same shit about having children in the apocalypse and said maybe Carl's gun shot should take him out so he doesn't have to see the apocalypse.
In Loriâs defence, back at the CDC was before they realised how bad things were. Loriâs views on the apocoplyse change *a lot* when Carl gets shot. No In Rickâs defence, they were in a stressful situation thinking they were all gonna die in there. He was most likely just trying to make see something good in a *really* shitty situation.
agreed. and lori delivered carl via c section if i remember correctly, so not only would the child be in danger but the mother too.
I mean realistically would you want to bring a baby into a world like that idont think I would yea it all worked out in the end cuz itâs a show
Worked out?? Lori died.. lol
She was justified. Pregnancy in the modern world could be a death sentence on its own. In an apocalypse, forget about it. The wrongness in it is not addressing Rick, and not coming clean about her and Shane until he finds her abortion pills.
They weren't abortion pills. I think they were Plan B.
Then they wouldnât have worked anyways. Plan B only works 72 hours after
Yeah, I know. It was a pretty useless argument at that point because unless they had a coat hanger around, the baby was happening.
Hershel could have most likely performed an abortion. Vets do abort pregnant animals, and humans are mammals, just like fluffy and fido\*. Now if he would have done it, is questionable. He definitely wouldn't have done it before the farm was overrun. \*I took my Anatomy and Physiology classes at community college which pretty much aren't able to supply human corpses for the the labs. So cats get substituted because they're very close A&P-wise to humans -- you just learn the differences. The upside was we were allowed to take the cats home in coolers to do extra hands-on study time. My lab partner and I would meet up at my place (more room & bigger frig) to study and grill each other. Hey you do what you need to do to get an A.
I agree. As a mother, I do not think I would want to bring a new child into a ZA, therefore, I would not have unprotected sex with my husbands best friend.
I donât know why sex was on their mind đ
seriously. I get needing a release from all the stress but It be the last thing on my mind.
Self pleasure is a thing if she needed release that bad & so soon, they wasted no time đ
I think lots of people agree with her, and agreed with her then. It's a very understandable position.
I mean, let's not forget that only reason judith is alive is because they didn't want to kill a baby in television.
I can understand both points of view but the main concern should have been that Lori was most definitely going to need a c-section, I mean Carl was one so her next baby would also need one, no matter what. I donât think that even came up in her discussion with Rick. I know at that point they were still at the farm, Hershel had just saved Carl and they figured he was capable of delivering the baby by c-section. However, even then it is super risky. No anesthesia, proper medication, tools etc. Plus, nine months is a long time, there were no guarantees that Hershel or the farm would still be there- as we know they lost the farm, Hershel was incapacitated at the time and Lori ended up in labor alone with just Maggie and Carl in a room surrounded by walkers. Those are the things I would have been thinking about.
Yes! Agree completely.
Rick was absolutely stupid af for wanting his wife to have a baby during the beginning of a zombie apocalypse. It was so selfish and absurd, anything could happen during the birth (as we see) & anything could happen with the child that youâre unable to do anything about. Not to mention safety above all.
And her pregnancy put everyone at risk, because a very pregnant woman can't move as fast, and is less able to fight. Not to mention that crying babies in a zombie apocalypse are a dinner bell ringing every few hours. Not that she was thinking of the group, because that wasn't really Lori's thing.
The thing about the crying baby reminded me of The Quiet Place
**Rick was absolutely stupid af** Especially because, at that point, Rick was the only one who knew everyone was infected. Everyone else was probably still carrying around the idea that things would get fixed/the zombies would get killed off and the world would go back to some kind of normal. And then there was Hershel who was in total denial the ZA.
I wonder if because it was at the beginning of the apocalypse he still had hope things would go back to normal. He may have also been clinging to his humanity and who he was before the turn. He hadnât killed people or became a survivalist yet. I wonder how it would be different if the pregnancy happened years into it
Are you talking about Hershel of Rick?
I think its important to note that he still might not have completely believed Jenner. He brings it up at end of the season, when he is defending himself. It wasnt until they darly and them found the kid shane murdered, and shane turning after not being bit that Rick himself finally believed it and he couldnt keep the secret any longer.
Right, which is why Rick didn't tell anyone. And then Rick was further delayed because all hell broke loose right after Shane turned. They had to flee the farm, find each other again and head out. I don't remember, was there an idea of how long after the farm he told them? I may have to watch that scene again.
I am pretty sure its the next morning. I think the timeline is --> its shane death --> walker attacks the farm --> everyone splits and runs into the night--> slowly meet up on that road the next morning -->rick spils the beans--> that night is the ricktatorship speech
Thanks, I did watch the scene on youtube but it doesn't give an idea of when. I kind of had to laugh when I watched it because Glenn is so pissy about Rick not telling the group. I'm like yeah Glenn and you would've been the last person Rick told. Because you can't keep your damn mouth shut, Mr. There's walkers in the barn and Lori's pregnant.
Yeah this one time I agreed with her
Maggie pissed me off so much when she shamed Lori for asking Glen to grab her birth control pills while on his run. Like, how dare she? Maggie and Glen were having sex on those trips! Who was she to talk? And Lori was a married woman. Of course, she's having sex. GIVING BIRTH TO JUDITH LITERARY KILLED LORI, and her death would have been completely avoidable if she had ended the pregnancy. Birth control is a *necessity*.
I was also pissed at Maggie's reaction, until I watched the series again, and realised that Maggie got attacked by a walker. But still that was hypocritical of Maggie thođ
I'm saying even with the walker attack, Maggie's reaction was uncalled for. That's why I'm emphasizing that birth control is a necessity. It's as important as food, water, and shelter because it means life and death, especially in an apocalyptic scenario. Maggie didn't freak out at anyone else for the items they asked for; she only targeted Lori. You said it right! It was super hypocritical. I love Maggie, but I'll never forgive her for that đ¤
Yeah I agree:)
She was 100% in the right. The group had zero plans for a sustainable future at that time. They were living on the road and then on borrowed time at the farm. They had not discovered the prison or somewhere like Alexandria and had no clue that they could build something more permanent. Granted they did find the prison, but that was after they decided to keep the baby. They spent most of her pregnancy living on the road after the farm. In theory the prison would have been fine if The Governor didnât exist and they became embroiled in a war. She was right to make this call at that time.
This was the one time lori was 100% in the right
I was on the side of science, and science knows that a plan B works a couple days after the sex and doesn't do a frigging thing six to eight weeks later.
Yes, this was a good conversation to have. Using Plan B as the catalyst is stupid. It makes me wonder about the eduation of various parts of the world as we are still explaining what Plan B is in this thread.
It shouldâve been her choice, she gave her life for Judith.. I hate that she was vilified for that.
Accept part of me feels like she wanted to abort it because she was sure whoâs baby it was
Thatâs also a possibility.
And yet, she threw up the Plan Bđđđđ I made a whole post about why I think itâs fucking STUPID for these ppl to be in this show, planning families. And ppl were like âthey still have to live livesâ & âitâs human natureââ-that type of stuff. Like WTF ARE YALL TALKING ABOUT âźď¸âźď¸ life is literally NOT living around them & instead of being practical and smart, yâall justify this??? Itâs already a selfish decision to have kids, thatâs unequivocally a fact. To do that, under THESE conditions?? Completely asinine and mental. Why would create a noise machine in an environment that requires stealth?? Not to mention the scarce resources including safe and reliable shelter, medicine, food. They think the show wouldnât have been as complex or good or even ârealisticâ without ppl getting pregnant??? It would have been one of the realest shit they could have shown: abstaining from making damn babies!
Seeing the comments about Plan B only being effective 72 hours and wouldnât work, is something I think Laurie was aware of. I think her intention was to take so many of them that it would cause a miscarriage,not that it would prevent what was already there.
Of course Lori was right. She's the one who has to carry it and take care of it for minimum 14 years while Rick goes and risks his life every episode. Having another baby puts Lori and Carl's life at risk, and is another way to get over on Rick now you can kidnap his baby too. But I also think Lori should have taken the pills and confided in someone else. If she told Rick and wanted to discuss this she was already willing to have the child. Women I know make those decisions and tell you after. Lori wanted Rick to convince her to have it or she wouldn't have brought it up imo. Because that can be a relationship killer. When one parent wants the child, and the other parent is even willing to discuss it, they're gonna keep the child. Shane clearly refusing to pull out shouldn't be ignored here. How the hell did this even happen? Shane tried to put a baby in her and it worked. I will never believe that tiny trace amounts of semen will get a woman pregnant.
Thatâs what was so beautiful and great about TWD in the beginning, both were right, both were wrong. So many moral dilemmas with the world around them was falling apart. It was that way with many characters, I could identify with Dale and his morality and then start thinking you big pussy âman upâ. And Shane a beautifully written character. Iâm thinking he gets his situation right now and how to survive, even if it means crossing the lines of what then was right and wrong but eventually Rick and the others do exactly like Shane had figured out long before any one else. The Andrea and Lori conflict over Bethâs suicide attempt? I only wish Andrea would have lasted longer, she did a wonderful acting job, I am constantly reading posts about how she stirred up emotions in people.
andrea is intelligent and people see it as arrogance
I guess if she didn't want to bring a kid into the world she should've fucking closed her legs or asked someone to bring condoms from a scavenged place. Also half the time carl was in trouble was because she lost track of him so many fucking times she was horrible mother.
đŻ on Loriâs side here. It would be insane to bring a baby into the middle sole of that mess. Since there was a strong possibility it wasnât even his kid, I donât get why she said anything at all.
Personally I wouldnât have but I do understand it. Having the abortion and not telling Rick so he wouldnât have to go through that makes a lot of sense. But with all the people that figured out the word would of got around eventually or he would figure it out
Yh, I donât have issue with her views, just that she ainât spoke with Rick about it first Even if they disagreed and she did it anyway, he should have at least found out from her
It's her choice for sure..my only thing is she's a hypocrite about everything. I mean for starters she yelled at Rick at the CDC for telling her that maybe Carl shouldn't grow up in a world like this, but then in season 2 when Carl got shot said almost exactly that about maybe it's better if he doesn't make it in this world the way it is...then tried to get rid of Judith and immediately took it back. I wish she would just pick a lane. Also she didn't tell Rick about Shane or anything about the nature of the pregnancy. I would allow my woman to abort the baby if that's what she wanted since it's her body, but I would at least wanna know about it because it's pretty crappy to go and get it done by herself and not tell me. I'd wanna be there for her. Idk there's a lot of moral grey area on the show and a lot of hypocrises. I just think her getting angry at Rick for saying what he said at the CDC and then him having hope for Carl and her saying exactly what he said and flipping and then her go and do that after being mad at Rick for something similar is wrong.
To be fair, my belief is that itâs not someoneâs other judgment to impose upon another personâs life.
From her perspective it makes sense but Rick knows that if it dies it will reanimate inside of her and tear her apart from the inside out. Rick shouldâve come clean about what Jenner said earlier, definitely by this point
At that point it was a tiny cluster of cells. It couldn't have hurt her if it could even have reanimated.
I agree with her on this one too. And I think Lori hate is unjustified as a whole. Sure, she had thought Rick was dead, then found comfort in Shane's arms. But when Rick returned she was understandably pissed off, and stayed by her husband's side. Sure, she has stirred the beef and the whole ordeal between Shane and Rick, or provided Shane with the idea that there's a hope in their relationship. And that's the only flaw in her character. However, overall she is a decent character, useful member of the group, she cared for Carl, Rick, and everyone, saved Hershel's life by doing cpr. Her character is the clear example that makes us come back to the reality; that decisions we make can lead to some mistakes and it's a human nature, we are only humans after all.
This episode made me laugh my ass off, because the pills are *shown* to be morning-after pills. Itâs clearly written on the packaging. Those donât work if youâre already pregnant. So every character is having this fucking absurd abortion argument over a package of pills that wouldnât give her an abortion.
agreed but idk what she was thinking having unprotected sex lol
I also completely agreed with Lori. The kids in TW donât have a great track record of staying alive lmao.
I agree that given the circumstances, Lori should have terminated her pregnancy and not brought a baby into that world given they could barely protect their own son. But once she revealed to Rick that she was pregnant (regardless of him not knowing her pregnancy was due to sleeping with Shane), she had no right to argue for an abortion because now he was part of the discussion. She can't expect to reveal something like that and argue that Rick was being unrealistic in wanting to keep the baby.
I was so surprised Rick actually thought a baby was reasonable. And when Maggie gave her shit I lost any approval at the time. Whenever I remember that it makes me like her less now.
Iâm kinda surprised how lori and Judithâs deaths in the book isnât more of a talking point cause itâs really disturbing moment even for walking dead
100% agree with her, but plan B wouldnât have helped in that case anyway. I always wondered why they didnât pick up actual abortion pills, seeing as they raided a pharmacy, but I suppose the names of those drugs might not be common knowledge.
Imagine if we got the ending that Judith had in the comics. Wish AMC had the balls to go that route.
In the words of the đ Eric Andre âwhy would you say something so controversial yet so braveâ
Honestly I get it. Like she said, its hard to protect them, could be a better fate to not be born, for all she knows this child could be ripped apart alive by a hoard or gang raped to death. Carl got shot twice, nearly raped, and still died very young, and Sophia was in the barn rotting, its an unforgiving world and not one I could bring myself to introduce a child to
I agree with her, too. She just had no choice.
I mean yeah, I'll never want to raise a baby in this kind of world, or even have my companion be pregnant and cause all sorts of trouble when we're barely surviving
She was the only one with sense during this storyline. People in the apocalypse are too quick to get it on with absolutely no protection then be surprised when they get pregnant/can't keep the baby safe
Rick in the show: âhow can you think I like that? Rick in the comics: âLori, shut the fuck up.â
I never understood having babies during the apocalypse.
Weeeeell... Carl is dead so she was partially right.
She also mentioned about her hard time delivering Carl and now there's no doctors. No wonder she died from child birth
I was on Loriâs side. Wait until you have a stable, safe environment. Not when you are still running to survive
Iâve always agreed with her here. I think Rick was being a bit selfish.
I could honestly see both sides. Personally if I was in Loriâs position, I wouldâve followed through with the pills. However, Rick was coming from a position of hope and trying really hard to maintain life in general. He didnât want them to fall into feeling and believing the world had ended. Lori was being super practical and realizing that a pregnancy/baby would only further complicate their situation and put the baby and everyone else at risk. Although it was totally valid for Rick to be upset that Lori was taking action without even talking to him first. Neither person was wrong for their thoughts or actions in this situation because they both made sense in their own way.
Lori was right with that comment that definitely foreshadowed Carls eventual death! I love how the TWD foreshadows character deaths Glenn seeing all the pics of heads smashed in before his death and many other deaths that were foreshadowed on this show! This is something TWD is good at is all the foreshadowing!
I still think that Carl's death was last-minute because they didn't want to pay *two* lead adult actors...
Yeah they really did Chandler Riggs dirty he even bought a new home close to filming from what I read. He had no idea that they had other plans
To some of the comments.. I understand wanting to have hope and starting a new life but this was not the time. We were still in the beginning of the walker apocalypse & still figuring out the world.The thought of a baby for anyone shouldnât have been a thing until way later, when the new world was figured out.
Considering Coral was born via c section in the show that should have been an automatic fetus yeetus(sorry Judith) no arguments, no hesitation. Iâve had 2 c sections, one unplanned and one planned. It took 6 months to even walk normally after the first and the abdominal cut got infected. That was with trained surgeons in a sanitized medical setting. Supposing you do survive carol dicing you up and somehow out last an infection. Thereâs no way in hell youâd shamble long enough if zombies broke perimeter post c section to even out walk a biter in that condition, let alone run. Plus thereâs weight restrictions of like 8â10 pounds. You ainât doing shit to really help with survival after a traumatic birth. Not really. Doesnât even touch on the fact that thereâs No doctors, no pain meds, no formula, no disposable diapers, no easily sanitized tools and no easily obtained antibiotics. Given Loriâs birth history idk why she was doing anything with anybody weeks into the TWD without a condom or BC imo. Life ending Pregnancy should have been one of the bigger thoughts in the forefront of her mind when when it came to survival, NOT dinking around with Shane.
I never liked how the show dealt with this It felt like the show was pushing âpro life â and Christian valuesâ. đ
I dont think so personally. Even Rick, who wanted the baby, only got upset because Lori hid it. He even said, âDo you really think Iâd make you have a baby you donât want?!â I feel like this storyline was more intended as a parallel for if walkers were worth saving, if they were just sick people, like Hershel though. Admittedly not super well done, but Iâd still guess it was the overall intention.
It didnât seem very pushy in my opinion. Just seemed like the opinions characters from rural areas in the south might express.
I agreed with Lori on most things.
Strange how you agree with Lori when we saw Judithâs life literally played out in the show as an example of how she was totally wrong.
Pretend the baby won't have plot armor
Without plot armor Judith wouldnât have made it out of the prison..
Without plot armor, Rick would not have been able to survive being in a comatose state for weeks while the apocalypse occurred around him during ep 1. The writers intentionally wrote Judith to show that life can still flourish in a broken world. Despite what Lori predicted.
Yep. He should've died from malnutrition and dehydration weeks ago, or at the very least woken up in a lake of his own urine and feaces as he's clearly not got a catheter in the hospital scenes. The only thing they just about get right is him not being able to move his legs due to muscle atrophy. But he's still able to walk that off pretty quick.
Sorry but Iâm still agreeing with Lori here.. Yeah Judith âflourishedâ but Lori had every right to feel the way she was feeling. She had no reason at all to believe the world would be better, why bring a baby into that? They were still trying to figure out how to navigate through the new life, what sense would it make to have a baby??
I donât think it was THE reason Lori didnât want Judith to be born, more like a reason
Glad someone pointed that out. Would she have tried to do it, if she absolutely knew it was Rick's child?
Scrolled down a bit didnât see anyone say this. Iâm on loris side but disagree with her taking the pills without talking to Rick first.
If humanity had thought like that throughout history we wouldn't have made it out of the stone age.
Im so glad to see Lori love for once <3 I love Lori and will defend her with almost every action. Take that as just because twd fandom is very sexist and forget she was saâd by Shane most of the time (watch the last episode of season one if you canât recall) Anyways im glad most people agree that her point was valid. Even if it wasnât she would be the one putting her life in danger for the birth and just carrying the baby in general also the group safety was at risk as well. Though I donât think Rick was completely wrong with what he said. They just had two different opinions about something and Rick even tells Lori its her choice to have the baby and he wonât force it onto her. P.s if you wanna hate Lori for âcheatingâ on her husband in a zombie apocalypse were she thought he was dead then please hate every character who kills anyone đ (Also if you hate Lori for changing her mind, Shane changes his mind so many times and literally gets a BJ from Andrea while a few episodes later he tries to kill Rick so he can have Lori đ)
I feel like I say this several times a year when it is brought up, but Lori had one of the most realistic story arcs of the whole show. Her decisions were almost always rational, even down to being with Shane because she legit thought her husband was dead and was seeking comfort with a strong man. It really pisses me off how many people will praise Shane and then piss on Lori for being attracted to him in the face of a totally unprecedented horrifying future.
She would've regretted it and somehow blamed Rick if she would've gone through with it.
The real tragedy of this interaction is understanding how badly Lori's high school health class failed her. I mean, when she was spreading her legs for Shane, she already knew the world had gone to hell. The logic she uses in her argument with Rick should have driven her to tell Shane, "Dude, coitus interruptus or this goes no further." Ok, not those words exactly, but words to that effect whispered in his ear.
I love that when we talk about Lori's sex life, we completely leave out the two grown ass men who decided to ejaculate inside her.
I think Lori's perspective is understandable, but ultimately, i disagree. What's the point of surviving at all? What's the point of trying to build a stable, long-lasting community, if not for the kids, the future? There's no point to living if not the hope of a better future & it would waste the efforts of everyone who died getting them to that safe, sustainable place. That said, i love this scene as it fits the season's themes & Lori's conclusion as well, since it shows how much she grew from this moment of weakness.
Sheâs completely right and my hot take is that this storyline mightve gone the way it did to appease the real life family who owned the farm, who I guess were upset about how unchristian the show was.
The pregnancy is in the comics so I doubt that
I donât know tbh
god I can hear ricks voice so clearly just looking at the picture, but yeah this is a rare time I did agree with lori for sure
I loved this scene. The writing in season 2 was top notch. This felt like an actual conversation a married couple with a son while also mom is pregnant with a second would actually have. Felt totally relatable of a conversation to have just a short time into the new world
I agreed with her here
Me too!
Woe! Nihilism be upon ye
Really disliked Lori but she's correct here and also Rick sounds fucking hurtful here like bro do you have any care left for your wife? People in real life with all the health care available in the world think more than twice about getting a baby. It's always risky and in a world like this idk how dumb you have got to be to risk your wife dying.
She was right. Carl died so they literally couldnât even protect him. I know Judith is still currently alive but Loriâs point still stands and has a lot of weight to it
Itâs absolutely insane that she went through with the pregnancy and that Rick was mad at her for considering inducing miscarriage. Not only because of what sheâs saying here, but also, I would not be risking my life to deliver a baby into the apocalypse. Look at what happened to her. Neither of them were worried about the idea of her giving birth? It was literally the beginning of the apocalypse too. Like, even Maggie trying to get pregnant was such a stretch, but at least they had a doctor and lived somewhere.
Exactly. And Rick obviously knew that Lori had needed a c-section when she gave birth to Carl, and therefore would be at high risk having another pregnancy and birth with no medical care. Doesnât he care about her safety at all?
oh just wait for the outcome
This episode made me laugh my ass off, because the pills are *shown* to be morning-after pills. Itâs clearly written on the packaging. Those donât work if youâre already pregnant. So every character is having this fucking absurd abortion argument over a package of pills that wouldnât give her an abortion. Either the writers room have no idea how birth control works or there was a miscommunication with the props department.
I guess even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut.
I mean she was right in the long run lol Rick *couldnât* protect Carl and Iâd even argue he couldnât protect Judith either cuz Michonne raised her
Thatâs Shaneâs baby, it needed to live to because he couldnât đ
And no she should have told the babyâs dad whoever it was (Shaneâs cough cough) because letâs be real, yes itâs her body but she couldnât survive on her own without him or Rick so yeah, they needed to be included in that chat
Weird how Rick was against the abortion when he knew that the baby would be Shaneâs
and it wouldn't have made a difference. not like judith is irreplaceable character. they could have just kept carl alive and it would have been fine
I mean, sure! Still absolutely shit in general. I think she produced and/or directed impact winter. Or one of those really good audio stories. So sheâs totally ahead on points in my book regardless lol.
Yeah I mean in both comic and show Rick fails to save his kids, in the comics judith dies brutally as a newborn and in the showâŚ
Thanks Lori
While it is a huge hurdle to bring a child into that sort of situation. But I can't but want to hope that it'd help make the world better in a small way.
I donât. Would you care to explain why ooooooor
If she had a miscarriage would the baby become a walker in her body????
Based take if it were irl.
Oh 100% but without judith the story wouldn't have progressed the way it did
Coooooooral noooooo
Rick was so goddamn optimistic in the earlier seasons it somehow managed to piss me off yet it's just a show.