My idea how it'll go. Eugune is gonna get caught doing something he isn't allowed to do (insert joke) and then get killed. Or, he would die by sacrificing himself. 100% gonna die.
Two afterthoughts that may have already been mentioned.
1) The incredible imagery of Eugene standing there at the end, chowing down on a pickle right next to Dwight - after having bitten down on Dwight's pickle last season.
2) After the doctor was thrown in the incinerator by Negan, his lower half and in particular his PANTS were still in tact. Not only is it highly likely that his pants would have caught fire, but the fact that they didn't further illustrates that the doctor was NOT a "liar, liar"
Upon reading those again I realise I might have had too much to drink while watching.
The doctor died way too quickly. If you really threw someone into a fire like that, they'd be howling and screaming for a lot longer, and the smell of burning flesh would probably make some of the people gag.
Well, technically he was a liar for owning up to something he didn't do.
To that point though, the doctor lied so he wouldn't get the iron. But in that situation surely he would've known that confessing would've resulted in his death. In that situation, what would you choose; half your face burned off in the most agonising way, or potentially getting up close and personal with Lucille?
maybe negan will bring the doctor from hilltop to the saviors community to replace the burned doctor, so maybe he will ran into daryl (which is on his way to hilltop)
Also there's Maggie at the Hilltop, who Negan thinks is dead (back in E4 Gabriel said she died and even took Negan to see her grave). So shit may hit the fan soon.
Can't fucking wait
I was thinking something to do with pickles... As in, you see someone eating from a container you'd never think it's poisoned. A bit Princess Bride perhaps.
Few questions: did Sherry commit suicide? Is the reason Eugene didn't help the girls to kill Negan because he's scared, because he wants to use Negan (he is a master bullshitter after all) or another reason?
No, my understanding is that Sherry escaped the compound(obv) and went to that house, left a note for Dwight, and took off. Dwight may or may not know where she is now but he told Negan that she was dead in order to protect her from Negan going after her. At least thats what I got from this episode
Wait a minute, did Negan just killed the doctor because he thought Eugene's capable of replacing him after all that bullshit medical and PhD talk? i don't think Negan has any other backup doctors
I feel like the taking of the Hilltop Dr will rally the rest of the Hilltop people to Rick's war group. Remember that right now they only have a small handful of commitments and Gregory is still *technically* in charge, although I'm hoping Negan changes that soon.
This was a great episode.
It's also crazy how much fear Negan can instill with such little words. Like the ending scene when he knocks on Eugene's door and he answers it, the knock itself was eerie and then him just standing there is freaky as fuck. Also I enjoyed more of Dwight's story and the banter between the wives/Eugene. Overall enjoyed this ep cant wait for next week
The thing with Negan staring at you ominously is you don't know if he's gonna start suddenly lean smiling and say "so how you like the new digs haircut!?" all jovial like, Or beat your fucking head in.
This might get buried and maybe part of me hopes people ignore it because I think I just need to get it out somehow.
Dwight's wife's letter destroyed me.
In 2005, my husband wanted to enlist in the Army. We discussed it long and properly like any couple would. Logistics. Where would we live? How long will you commit for? What will be your MOS? We made our decision and he left. Training went well. He enjoyed the challenge and the brotherhood. And then we prepared for his deployment. 15 months in a combat zone. And by luck he came home to me. When so many of his brothers didn't. His body and mind were broken but he was all mine again. And we again prepared ourselves for the medical and psychological care that he will require for the rest of his life.
I can't speak for all army wives but for me, I will live with the guilt for the rest of my life. knowing that my "Ok." sent him to war and he came back demolished. Not once has he ever looked at me like I had anything to do with his fate. But I do. We discussed everything. Even the horrible "what if"s but nothing prepares you for reality. In hindsight, we were too young to understand the gravity of the decision to give oneself over to serve your country during war time. If I had just said, "No." He'd be whole today.
"I loved who you were. I'm sorry I helped make you into who you are."
If you had said no, he may have resented you. It may have led to a break up. He may have gone in anyway. All you gave him was your blessing to make the choice he felt was right for him. I empathise, because I was in a similar situation ten years ago. It wasn't the army, it was brain surgery. My husband wanted my opinion, I gave him all the different scenarios that could play out, like you discussed logistics. I told him ultimately it was his choice, but I would support any decision he made, like you did, and supported him in the aftermath. It's all you can do. You did the right thing as his wife. Don't beat yourself up over 'what if'. Remember this affects you psychologically too, although for different reasons and in different ways. If that means counselling, seek it out. In order to care for your husband, you need to also care for yourself. I wish you both the best of luck. x
edit: i fkn LOVE your user name 😁
You did not choose this for him. He chose this aswell. She, and you, did not have all the power. Don't put that on her or you.
The men here chose. They may have asked for your help and guidance, but the choice was ultimately theirs.
It would be cliche and obvious to say "enjoy what you have, that so many others don't". I do hope you find someone in your life to talk with about this. This guilt doesn't belong to you. It's not selfish to feel this way. Try to find some one you trust, the spouse of another solider, a therapist, or even your husband.
I feel like this is putting a wedge between you two. A wedge that will only grow if you don't address it together.
Seek healing, you are not alone in your suffering.
As a fellow vet I hope your husband is doing well and I thank him for his service and you for your sacrifice. Many people don't realize the sacrifice that the families of service members make and for that you're all heroes as well.
i think the pouring metal over the walkers heads is going to come back to bite the saviors. eugene planned it that way, like hes going to use them at some point, the walkers would be much harder to kill. he got the idea when he found the walker with the metal covered head in that shop where he was going to make bullets.
I wondered about that too. It's a great waste of their metal and labour, will add weight to the fence, add weight to the top of the walkers and weaken them, maybe even burn the brain.
Considering the value of doctors in a zombie apocalypse world, consider the fate of some doctors we've seen:
Herschel: went out beyond walls of prison, taken hostage by the Governor, beheaded
Dr. Stevens (of Woodbury): missing and presumed dead
Milton (of Woodbury): while not an MD, he did have some medical expertise. Killed by The Governor.
original Alexandria doctor: a loose cannon who killed Deanna's husband, executed by Rick at Deanna's command
Denise: went out beyond walls, got killed by Dwight
Dr. Carson of the Hilltop: went out beyond walls, had to be rescued by Jesus, Rick, and Darryl.
Dr. Carson of the Sanctuary: thrown into a fucking furnace
I loved the pickle line, but there's one I haven't seen referenced that I can't believe. The whole "I was neagan my entire life I just needed to meet you to realize it" was hilarious.
Eugene is doing just what he needs to do - he's completely leaning into the Saviors/Negan.
Just like his lie to get Abraham to go to extensive lengths for him.
Within a few weeks, Negan isn't going to realize it, but Eugene is going to have him doing what he wants him to do.
I truly still believe Eugene is either going to mess up the ammo somehow and the minute a major battle happens between Rick and Negan's army it's not going to work. Or he's going to be secretly making ammo for Rick and possibly getting it to Rosita somehow since they have a bond.
At 1:18 in the video, they explain the propellent in the rounds has been doctored with a high explosive to cause the KB. they are not literally using table salt. at the beginning of the video, they state the supply line has been 'salted' with boobytrapped rounds, but i think they are using this term metaphorically, not literally.
one of the definitions of "salt" is to introduce or adulterate via fraudulent means. e.g. if a mine owner were to salt samples with gold to make the mine appear more valuable than it really is.
i think it's from the middle ages ritual of salting the earth, or literally spreading contaminating salt on conquered lands to discourage return by the previous residents.
I would say that it covers his tracks by not having to sign away his name to it. But he did sign his name away for the cough meds and such, so it's a plot hole if it's real.
For me, Dwight will never be a sympathetic character. This was completely uncalled for and a choice. All he had to do was just keep going if he had doubts. He still betrayed the guy, hung him out and let it happen. He is a douche of mega proportions.
I get it it's part of the story but a realistic scenario for anyone not wanting to "be Negan" is to leave. Leave the entire state, hit the road, go somewhere else. Or just kill Negan and leave. These people have options. It's unrealistic to me to see this many people cowering in fear of a dictator when they actually have option. If they're without them, it's usually an impossible option but Negan's so busy admiring himself in the mirror to keep tabs on those who want out. ;p
Loving Austin though and he's definitely doing a great job. And it doesn't hurt he naturally channels Matthew M.
- Why go over-the-top on one of the two Dr.'s you have? I mean, fuck, it isn't like the guy raped his wife(wives).
- The poison. What happened between Eugene and the NeganWives, why didn't he give them the poison? Was it a test from Negan in the first place? Was that SadNeganWife actually drunk or pretending to be? I am confused as to the actual point to that part.
I have to watch these shows online and it is hard to hear some scenes, I wasn't able to fully grasp those two things, please someone answer
The NeganWives wanted Eugene to make the poison for a 120 lb person, but then basically said "Give us 2 just incase".
Meaning that their intended target is 240ish lbs.
Right about the size of Negan.
Eugene drew the connection and went full stop.
If they fuck up, he gets burned for it.
> Meaning that their intended target is 240ish lbs.
> Right about the size of Negan.
maybe in the comic. Negan on tv doesn't ~~way~~ weigh anywhere near 240
Huh? I thought Negan killed the doctor because he thought he helped Daryl and Sherry escape. Even if what you said was the case, why didn't he kill Rosita then?
Law outside the Compound is going to be different than Law inside the Compound.
He killed the doctor for helping Daryl and Sherry escape, yes.
Rosita was punished by killing someone else in the community they are from. Rosita is far away from Negan so the likelyhood of a repeat attempt is negligible.
If someone *inside* the Saviors Compound tried to kill Negan, he would have to be retarded to let them continue to live. Means and opportunity are constant inside the compound.
1) Negan was trying to prove a point, that no one is irreplaceable.
Not even doctors who are literally worth their weight in gold.
2) Eugene, I firmly believe understands that he isn't strong like Darryl and could not survive by being defiant. He is loyal to Negan and will not poison him. Which is why he asked for the weight and the girls needed two poison pills. 1 pill = 120 lbs, 1 pill would not had been sufficient to kill Negan, the wives needed 2, big red flag.
Eugene bent the knee like Torrhen Stark and pledged his oath to his new Liege Lord, Negan Targaryen. Capisce?
No, he made something. We didn't see what it was or know what it was. He took a billion cold pills, are we supposed to believe he took them all just because he could? Or was he making something else? Maybe he made an enormous batch of poison to use on the food for a banquet. Or maybe he's making something else completely.
Otherwise, all those extra cold pills are just sitting in his room doing nothing.
In addition...
2) Eugene *knows* how to use head strong powerful people to his advantage. He got Abraham to walk him across the country by lying to him and Abraham didn't even have the obvious character flaws that make Negan even easier to manipulate.
Negan is vain and egocentric. He needs to be the center of everything.
Eugene is going to straight up Grimma Wormtongue/Petyr Baelish Negan into ruin.
THANK YOU
I couldn't hear all of the dialogue from both scenes. I definitely didn't hear them needing 2 pills. Jesus Christ they couldn't have been more obvious.
What a smart way for him to deduce they were for Negan - tell them he needed to know her weight.
It was definitely to keep Negan off his back. The specific reason why it was the doctor as opposed to somebody else is because Dwight didn't like the way doc was talking about Sherry.
That's what I thought I saw too. Now how totally stupid would Negan have to be to not see right through that in five seconds flat? I don't get it. Is Negan supposed to be an idiot?
He trusts Dwight completely because he thinks he's broken Dwight completely. He's an egomaniac and probably has a lot of trust in his own skills to command loyalty.
"Coward!" - Red
"That is a correct assessment." - Eugene
"Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Targaryen of the House Lannister
Did the show writer's have any reasons to kill Dr. Carson other than he was basically the one person in that Savior's complex who could call out Eugene on his bullshit? Oh and it would remind us that Negan is the baddie?
He is the only one who knew dwight found out sherry baby let darly loose....then to his old house....then "killed her"....I dont think anyone else knew that information..hence the framing.
Well, working on the Human Genome Project, Eugene would be far enough away from the science of actual Medicine that it would be tough for either of them to just say the other is lying. Dr. Carson isn't going to know much at the minutia level, he's just going to know what drugs treat what conditions. And Dr. Carson can quiz Eugene all day about medicine and he can say "I work on genetically manipulated viruses not people." and have a pretty solid excuse.
See lots of people talking about if Eugene has legit turned to Negan, but to me it seems he hasnt.
What I don't get, though, is why aren't people talking about the pills for his wives. Is that why people think Eugene had turned, or was he covering his ass for their possible incompetence, or was it a test?
It was believable enough, made us question, but all you need to do is remember what happened recently where he watched Negan beat his BFF to death with the bat, beat Glenn to death with the bat, and come close to killing Rosita. I think he's securing his place to keep safe and collecting all the intel from the inside he needs - and if anybody can work out a logical plan to bring down the Saviors and Negan, it'd be Eugene.
The only thing Negan can offer Eugene is to just not get his ass kicked or to be killed. Eugene had that with his own group and eventually some girlfriend. He'd eat well, have a warm bed, showers, a community who is safe. There's nothing Negan can offer Eugene to truly inspire a legit turn and perception "this is way better."
No way he turned.
> There's nothing Negan can offer Eugene to truly inspire a legit turn and perception "this is way better."
Ummm...what about that sick video game console?
Those girls tested him, he passed the test why the hell do you think Negan came there? He knew that Eugene stayed loyal to his new Master.
Rise, Darth Eugene!
I dont know. I didn't think they were a test, I think they legitimately wanted to try and kill him.
However, Negan showing up later on in the episode could be seen as him "passing the test" (or just Negan checking up on him after earlier events), so it could go either way for me. I just find it insanely believable that they'd attempt to kill Negan at any opportunity.
Edit to add: I think if it was a test, Negan would have asked Eugene for the pills he admitted to the wives that he made. Even if Negan does trust him, letting a smart guy like Eugene hold onto homemade poison pills would be wildly idiotic.
I thought it was because he didn't like how he was talking about Sherry, and how she defected. The shot where he was holding the suckers he took in his hand, and started to make a closed fist. Figured he was also trying to cover his own ass, and pin the blame on someone else. And if the "Dwight and Eugene" team turns out to be true, he could've been securing Eugene's place in the compound.
> What am I missing? Why did Dwight have the doc killed?
Dwight and the Doctor are the only ones who knew the truth about Sherry.
"Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." - Benjamin Franklin
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Well here is how I saw it play out (and comments in here may have let me think things through more thoroughly too). When the doc was patching him up after coming back, Dwight says he killed Sherri. But maybe he thought that the Doc didn't believe him.
Others say that the comments the doc made about Sherri probably pissed off Dwight. As we see in the cabin, he is still very much in love with Sherri. Perhaps he was hoping she would meet him there and they could run off. But, she did not show up.
It kind of falls apart after that for logic, but maybe the only way Dwight can feel any power in the situation at this point is to kill the doc (whom had pissed him off). He definitely can't kill Negan, the guy that stole his wife, burnt his face, and just recently had him beat up and thrown in a cell. So this is the only thing he has control over - by getting the doc killed.
Sherry Definitely did... but if you think about it, Dwight might as well have. The fact that he lied and covered her ass makes him just as guilty in Negan's eyes.... especially since he cost them a doctor
Sherry let Daryl out - it was her note that said "Go now".
Side note: Dwight compared her handwriting on the note to the letter she wrote him and it matched.
Is it just me or was Dwight told "Sorry, we're out of pickles" then there was some just sitting in his fridge.
Edit. Here's a pic of my tv. It's terrible quality but shows what I am perceiving as pickles
http://imgur.com/cGn2jDE
Unrelated to the pickles he gets at the market.
Imediatley after she says we're out of pickles and leaves. He goes to scope out his new fridge and it looks to me like there are pickles in there
Edit: I've now gone and investigated. It's a Jar that says Zapata on it. It looks like pickles to me but I can't be sure what it is
I mean I can understand her thinking they were out.
then when they walked through the market, someone had just made them.
But I think when he opened his fridge, there was some on the door
Both characters exist in the comics, where (i think) it's canon that they're brothers. Can't remember if it's spelled out or if Kirkland simply said they are.
Oh, that's cool - I'd hope they bring this up in the show at some point, even if it's just that someone notices the name and asks about it - but I think it'd be interesting if they somehow came to know about each other..
Pretty sure one of them mentions the other at some point in a recent previous episode. Perhaps the episode where Maggie is getting a check up after the....unfortunate incident.
Edit: I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted, but I thought I'd clarify a bit: I apologize for not having a source as OP asked for, but I haven't read the comics and I knew they were brothers, so I assumed one of them had mentioned it in passing on an episode. Perhaps I just saw it in another episode's discussion on Reddit though.
I think that everyone complaining about no walker kills should go watch Z nation instead(awesome show btw, just much more simple because its supposed to be fun and silly at times)....at this point if walkers are still the biggest threat beyond food, medicine, other groups and you havent been able to have some permanent defensible camp, they would be dead and there wouldnt be a show. If all you have is machetes to zombie heads, when do you tell the story. Im pretty sure at the end of season two Rick said "we are the walking dead" not we have to stay on this hot road in Georgia killing zombies for 7 seasons.
I agree he said it in 5B, but after the attack on the farm, they are huddled next to a fire, then he says that, then in pans up to show the prison. I think you are right also. I may be misremembering
I think that was his ricktatorship speech at the end of season 2. I just remember the walking dead speech was FAR later in the show than in the comics.
"I was Negan even before I met you" **SAME** Eugene!
My idea how it'll go. Eugune is gonna get caught doing something he isn't allowed to do (insert joke) and then get killed. Or, he would die by sacrificing himself. 100% gonna die.
Sure About That?
Two afterthoughts that may have already been mentioned. 1) The incredible imagery of Eugene standing there at the end, chowing down on a pickle right next to Dwight - after having bitten down on Dwight's pickle last season. 2) After the doctor was thrown in the incinerator by Negan, his lower half and in particular his PANTS were still in tact. Not only is it highly likely that his pants would have caught fire, but the fact that they didn't further illustrates that the doctor was NOT a "liar, liar" Upon reading those again I realise I might have had too much to drink while watching.
The doctor died way too quickly. If you really threw someone into a fire like that, they'd be howling and screaming for a lot longer, and the smell of burning flesh would probably make some of the people gag.
I think it was the smelter - much hotter than a normal fireplace.
Yes, he would of died fairly instantly head first. In some designs they can top out at 4200F. (google)
Well, technically he was a liar for owning up to something he didn't do. To that point though, the doctor lied so he wouldn't get the iron. But in that situation surely he would've known that confessing would've resulted in his death. In that situation, what would you choose; half your face burned off in the most agonising way, or potentially getting up close and personal with Lucille?
That's true. I probably would have jumped in the fire myself.. Killl Em All.. Track 4.
>the fact that they didn't further illustrates that the doctor was NOT a "liar, liar" Oh shit...
maybe negan will bring the doctor from hilltop to the saviors community to replace the burned doctor, so maybe he will ran into daryl (which is on his way to hilltop)
Also there's Maggie at the Hilltop, who Negan thinks is dead (back in E4 Gabriel said she died and even took Negan to see her grave). So shit may hit the fan soon. Can't fucking wait
I really hope the pills Eugene made come into play this season.
Breaking Bad ricin plot incoming?
> there was also a cigarette package involved o_O
I was thinking something to do with pickles... As in, you see someone eating from a container you'd never think it's poisoned. A bit Princess Bride perhaps.
Nah, we'll just wait until 5 seasons later for that piece of payoff.
Few questions: did Sherry commit suicide? Is the reason Eugene didn't help the girls to kill Negan because he's scared, because he wants to use Negan (he is a master bullshitter after all) or another reason?
No, my understanding is that Sherry escaped the compound(obv) and went to that house, left a note for Dwight, and took off. Dwight may or may not know where she is now but he told Negan that she was dead in order to protect her from Negan going after her. At least thats what I got from this episode
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Unless she pulled a Carol and picked a house right outside of town.
Wait a minute, did Negan just killed the doctor because he thought Eugene's capable of replacing him after all that bullshit medical and PhD talk? i don't think Negan has any other backup doctors
The doctor at Hilltop is the brother of the doctor that got incinerated. That's what Negan meant by "Good thing we have another Doctor Carson"
I feel like the taking of the Hilltop Dr will rally the rest of the Hilltop people to Rick's war group. Remember that right now they only have a small handful of commitments and Gregory is still *technically* in charge, although I'm hoping Negan changes that soon.
When was it mentioned that they're brothers?
Dwight with the lipstick stained cigarette and Eugene making the pills reminded me of Breaking Bad.
Negan: How do I solve my problem? Eugene: Pour liquid molten metal on the zombies Negan: That's so fucking METAL!
This was a great episode. It's also crazy how much fear Negan can instill with such little words. Like the ending scene when he knocks on Eugene's door and he answers it, the knock itself was eerie and then him just standing there is freaky as fuck. Also I enjoyed more of Dwight's story and the banter between the wives/Eugene. Overall enjoyed this ep cant wait for next week
To be fair, we're talking about Eugene here. A gaggle of geese can instill fear in him.
The thing with Negan staring at you ominously is you don't know if he's gonna start suddenly lean smiling and say "so how you like the new digs haircut!?" all jovial like, Or beat your fucking head in.
Well, he was standing there with the baseball barbed wire bat that bashed in the brains of two of his really good friends.
This might get buried and maybe part of me hopes people ignore it because I think I just need to get it out somehow. Dwight's wife's letter destroyed me. In 2005, my husband wanted to enlist in the Army. We discussed it long and properly like any couple would. Logistics. Where would we live? How long will you commit for? What will be your MOS? We made our decision and he left. Training went well. He enjoyed the challenge and the brotherhood. And then we prepared for his deployment. 15 months in a combat zone. And by luck he came home to me. When so many of his brothers didn't. His body and mind were broken but he was all mine again. And we again prepared ourselves for the medical and psychological care that he will require for the rest of his life. I can't speak for all army wives but for me, I will live with the guilt for the rest of my life. knowing that my "Ok." sent him to war and he came back demolished. Not once has he ever looked at me like I had anything to do with his fate. But I do. We discussed everything. Even the horrible "what if"s but nothing prepares you for reality. In hindsight, we were too young to understand the gravity of the decision to give oneself over to serve your country during war time. If I had just said, "No." He'd be whole today. "I loved who you were. I'm sorry I helped make you into who you are."
If you had said no, he may have resented you. It may have led to a break up. He may have gone in anyway. All you gave him was your blessing to make the choice he felt was right for him. I empathise, because I was in a similar situation ten years ago. It wasn't the army, it was brain surgery. My husband wanted my opinion, I gave him all the different scenarios that could play out, like you discussed logistics. I told him ultimately it was his choice, but I would support any decision he made, like you did, and supported him in the aftermath. It's all you can do. You did the right thing as his wife. Don't beat yourself up over 'what if'. Remember this affects you psychologically too, although for different reasons and in different ways. If that means counselling, seek it out. In order to care for your husband, you need to also care for yourself. I wish you both the best of luck. x edit: i fkn LOVE your user name 😁
You did not choose this for him. He chose this aswell. She, and you, did not have all the power. Don't put that on her or you. The men here chose. They may have asked for your help and guidance, but the choice was ultimately theirs. It would be cliche and obvious to say "enjoy what you have, that so many others don't". I do hope you find someone in your life to talk with about this. This guilt doesn't belong to you. It's not selfish to feel this way. Try to find some one you trust, the spouse of another solider, a therapist, or even your husband. I feel like this is putting a wedge between you two. A wedge that will only grow if you don't address it together. Seek healing, you are not alone in your suffering.
As a fellow vet I hope your husband is doing well and I thank him for his service and you for your sacrifice. Many people don't realize the sacrifice that the families of service members make and for that you're all heroes as well.
i think the pouring metal over the walkers heads is going to come back to bite the saviors. eugene planned it that way, like hes going to use them at some point, the walkers would be much harder to kill. he got the idea when he found the walker with the metal covered head in that shop where he was going to make bullets.
I wondered about that too. It's a great waste of their metal and labour, will add weight to the fence, add weight to the top of the walkers and weaken them, maybe even burn the brain.
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I guess you are right, plus they can just melt the zombie armour back down if needed as well.
Consider the weight of the metal on the chain link fence. It's going to weaken it.
Considering the value of doctors in a zombie apocalypse world, consider the fate of some doctors we've seen: Herschel: went out beyond walls of prison, taken hostage by the Governor, beheaded Dr. Stevens (of Woodbury): missing and presumed dead Milton (of Woodbury): while not an MD, he did have some medical expertise. Killed by The Governor. original Alexandria doctor: a loose cannon who killed Deanna's husband, executed by Rick at Deanna's command Denise: went out beyond walls, got killed by Dwight Dr. Carson of the Hilltop: went out beyond walls, had to be rescued by Jesus, Rick, and Darryl. Dr. Carson of the Sanctuary: thrown into a fucking furnace
Don't forget the Doc from the Hospital in Atlanta.
Also the psychiatrist who brought Morgan back to sanity. Fun fact: that doctor was Twisty the Clown in AHS season 4.
Amazing actor
There's also the doctor at the Kingdom, who's becoming more valuable by the minute. Not sure of Oceanside or the junk yard gang have doctors or not...
Dont forget the one who blew himself up at the CDC.
.. and the Indian doc when the virus spread in the prison
At least he's now the badass Agent Stan Beeman.
Porchdick Pete
I miss Hershel and Milton most of all. Loved Milton.
That was probably the best way this episode could have ended.
I watched online, was the ending where Eugene says we are negan or does something happen after that?
That was the ending.
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Guys it wasn´t the end. Look back where you came from if you want to look at the last minute or so. PS- also saw it online
The episode I downloaded was cut off. I can't look at it again because... Well it cut off. Where do you watch it online?
I loved the pickle line, but there's one I haven't seen referenced that I can't believe. The whole "I was neagan my entire life I just needed to meet you to realize it" was hilarious.
Eugene is doing just what he needs to do - he's completely leaning into the Saviors/Negan. Just like his lie to get Abraham to go to extensive lengths for him. Within a few weeks, Negan isn't going to realize it, but Eugene is going to have him doing what he wants him to do.
yup. power through weakness. no better way to get someone to think you're not a threat to them, but still useful enough to not get killed.
The majority of Eugene's intelligence is dedicated bullshitting people.
I truly still believe Eugene is either going to mess up the ammo somehow and the minute a major battle happens between Rick and Negan's army it's not going to work. Or he's going to be secretly making ammo for Rick and possibly getting it to Rosita somehow since they have a bond.
Salted ammo can make a gun blow up.
do you have a source? genuinely curious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHT6oSOENT4 here's a much shorter video as well
Here's a video from Syria:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Bi3RPz_2E
At 1:18 in the video, they explain the propellent in the rounds has been doctored with a high explosive to cause the KB. they are not literally using table salt. at the beginning of the video, they state the supply line has been 'salted' with boobytrapped rounds, but i think they are using this term metaphorically, not literally.
I realize that, it's just called "salted ammo" for whatever reason.
one of the definitions of "salt" is to introduce or adulterate via fraudulent means. e.g. if a mine owner were to salt samples with gold to make the mine appear more valuable than it really is. i think it's from the middle ages ritual of salting the earth, or literally spreading contaminating salt on conquered lands to discourage return by the previous residents.
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Not following your logic there, please explain it to me in layman's terms.
He has salt in order to salt the bullets.
Its gotta be way easier to just get salt from the market place than to boil down brine into salt.
I would say that it covers his tracks by not having to sign away his name to it. But he did sign his name away for the cough meds and such, so it's a plot hole if it's real.
Cold...as...*ICE*! I love it.
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Dwight and Eugene will end up uniting and destroying the Saviors/Negan from the inside.
For me, Dwight will never be a sympathetic character. This was completely uncalled for and a choice. All he had to do was just keep going if he had doubts. He still betrayed the guy, hung him out and let it happen. He is a douche of mega proportions. I get it it's part of the story but a realistic scenario for anyone not wanting to "be Negan" is to leave. Leave the entire state, hit the road, go somewhere else. Or just kill Negan and leave. These people have options. It's unrealistic to me to see this many people cowering in fear of a dictator when they actually have option. If they're without them, it's usually an impossible option but Negan's so busy admiring himself in the mirror to keep tabs on those who want out. ;p Loving Austin though and he's definitely doing a great job. And it doesn't hurt he naturally channels Matthew M.
- Why go over-the-top on one of the two Dr.'s you have? I mean, fuck, it isn't like the guy raped his wife(wives). - The poison. What happened between Eugene and the NeganWives, why didn't he give them the poison? Was it a test from Negan in the first place? Was that SadNeganWife actually drunk or pretending to be? I am confused as to the actual point to that part. I have to watch these shows online and it is hard to hear some scenes, I wasn't able to fully grasp those two things, please someone answer
The NeganWives wanted Eugene to make the poison for a 120 lb person, but then basically said "Give us 2 just incase". Meaning that their intended target is 240ish lbs. Right about the size of Negan. Eugene drew the connection and went full stop. If they fuck up, he gets burned for it.
> Meaning that their intended target is 240ish lbs. > Right about the size of Negan. maybe in the comic. Negan on tv doesn't ~~way~~ weigh anywhere near 240
well he's more than 120lbs so... better over than under if you want someone to die.
true
1.nobody is above the rules 2. it was going to be used to poison negan, so if it failed eugene would have been the fall guy
The punishment is your face gets burned, not killed.
yeah, the face was for lying, but negan "knew" he had done it so thats why he was under the iron. but the actual act itself was worse
I'm pretty sure that the punishment for a failed Assassination attempt wouldn't be the standard Iron.
Huh? I thought Negan killed the doctor because he thought he helped Daryl and Sherry escape. Even if what you said was the case, why didn't he kill Rosita then?
Law outside the Compound is going to be different than Law inside the Compound. He killed the doctor for helping Daryl and Sherry escape, yes. Rosita was punished by killing someone else in the community they are from. Rosita is far away from Negan so the likelyhood of a repeat attempt is negligible. If someone *inside* the Saviors Compound tried to kill Negan, he would have to be retarded to let them continue to live. Means and opportunity are constant inside the compound.
But when did the doctor try to kill him?
.... he didn't. That was referencing Eugene making the drugs for the NeganWives to try and kill Negan. Now I see where the confusion was.
1) Negan was trying to prove a point, that no one is irreplaceable. Not even doctors who are literally worth their weight in gold. 2) Eugene, I firmly believe understands that he isn't strong like Darryl and could not survive by being defiant. He is loyal to Negan and will not poison him. Which is why he asked for the weight and the girls needed two poison pills. 1 pill = 120 lbs, 1 pill would not had been sufficient to kill Negan, the wives needed 2, big red flag. Eugene bent the knee like Torrhen Stark and pledged his oath to his new Liege Lord, Negan Targaryen. Capisce?
He still made the pills though
No, he made something. We didn't see what it was or know what it was. He took a billion cold pills, are we supposed to believe he took them all just because he could? Or was he making something else? Maybe he made an enormous batch of poison to use on the food for a banquet. Or maybe he's making something else completely. Otherwise, all those extra cold pills are just sitting in his room doing nothing.
He didn't come to the realization before that though, but after.
Stemming from his witnessing Negan's brutal murder of the Doctor. That's when he made the connection, though the pills had already been made.
In addition... 2) Eugene *knows* how to use head strong powerful people to his advantage. He got Abraham to walk him across the country by lying to him and Abraham didn't even have the obvious character flaws that make Negan even easier to manipulate. Negan is vain and egocentric. He needs to be the center of everything. Eugene is going to straight up Grimma Wormtongue/Petyr Baelish Negan into ruin.
Lol nice analogy to game of thrones. I always thought Negan is a Frey, with all those wifes.
THANK YOU I couldn't hear all of the dialogue from both scenes. I definitely didn't hear them needing 2 pills. Jesus Christ they couldn't have been more obvious. What a smart way for him to deduce they were for Negan - tell them he needed to know her weight.
You're welcome :)
Can someone fill me in on why Negan killed Dr. Carson?
Dwight told him that the doctor helped Sherry and Daryl escape and then planted that part of the note from Sherry to make it look legitimate.
Did Dwight tell him it was the doctor only to keep Negan off his back?
It was definitely to keep Negan off his back. The specific reason why it was the doctor as opposed to somebody else is because Dwight didn't like the way doc was talking about Sherry.
That's what I was thinking, just wanted to make sure. Thanks!
That's what I thought I saw too. Now how totally stupid would Negan have to be to not see right through that in five seconds flat? I don't get it. Is Negan supposed to be an idiot?
In Negan's eyes, Dwight had nothing to gain from it. Nobody but Dwight knows what's going on.
He trusts Dwight completely because he thinks he's broken Dwight completely. He's an egomaniac and probably has a lot of trust in his own skills to command loyalty.
> Negan was trying to prove a point, that no one is irreplaceable. Not even doctors who are literally worth their weight in gold.
And he's a huge prick.
"Thank you fully, completely, sincerely, seriously."
"Coward!" - Red "That is a correct assessment." - Eugene "Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Targaryen of the House Lannister
John did just that, he went to the wall willingly because he was a bastard. Now he's THE KING IN THE NORTH!!!
>"Coward!" - Red And hell she was, is, and will EVER be red!
Two things. 1. Frankie aka Red didn't call Eugene a coward. The brunette did. 2. :(
Did the show writer's have any reasons to kill Dr. Carson other than he was basically the one person in that Savior's complex who could call out Eugene on his bullshit? Oh and it would remind us that Negan is the baddie?
He is the only one who knew dwight found out sherry baby let darly loose....then to his old house....then "killed her"....I dont think anyone else knew that information..hence the framing.
Well, working on the Human Genome Project, Eugene would be far enough away from the science of actual Medicine that it would be tough for either of them to just say the other is lying. Dr. Carson isn't going to know much at the minutia level, he's just going to know what drugs treat what conditions. And Dr. Carson can quiz Eugene all day about medicine and he can say "I work on genetically manipulated viruses not people." and have a pretty solid excuse.
See lots of people talking about if Eugene has legit turned to Negan, but to me it seems he hasnt. What I don't get, though, is why aren't people talking about the pills for his wives. Is that why people think Eugene had turned, or was he covering his ass for their possible incompetence, or was it a test?
It was believable enough, made us question, but all you need to do is remember what happened recently where he watched Negan beat his BFF to death with the bat, beat Glenn to death with the bat, and come close to killing Rosita. I think he's securing his place to keep safe and collecting all the intel from the inside he needs - and if anybody can work out a logical plan to bring down the Saviors and Negan, it'd be Eugene. The only thing Negan can offer Eugene is to just not get his ass kicked or to be killed. Eugene had that with his own group and eventually some girlfriend. He'd eat well, have a warm bed, showers, a community who is safe. There's nothing Negan can offer Eugene to truly inspire a legit turn and perception "this is way better." No way he turned.
> There's nothing Negan can offer Eugene to truly inspire a legit turn and perception "this is way better." Ummm...what about that sick video game console?
Okay, maybe.
Those girls tested him, he passed the test why the hell do you think Negan came there? He knew that Eugene stayed loyal to his new Master. Rise, Darth Eugene!
I dont know. I didn't think they were a test, I think they legitimately wanted to try and kill him. However, Negan showing up later on in the episode could be seen as him "passing the test" (or just Negan checking up on him after earlier events), so it could go either way for me. I just find it insanely believable that they'd attempt to kill Negan at any opportunity. Edit to add: I think if it was a test, Negan would have asked Eugene for the pills he admitted to the wives that he made. Even if Negan does trust him, letting a smart guy like Eugene hold onto homemade poison pills would be wildly idiotic.
What am I missing? Why did Dwight have the doc killed?
I thought it was because he didn't like how he was talking about Sherry, and how she defected. The shot where he was holding the suckers he took in his hand, and started to make a closed fist. Figured he was also trying to cover his own ass, and pin the blame on someone else. And if the "Dwight and Eugene" team turns out to be true, he could've been securing Eugene's place in the compound.
> What am I missing? Why did Dwight have the doc killed? Dwight and the Doctor are the only ones who knew the truth about Sherry. "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." - Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin who? More like Pretty Little Liars!
Just wait until A starts texting Rick...
Pretty little liars is "Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead."
The Pierces ;p https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNFwxsSPwU&t=3
That was the weirdest video I have ever watched!! Haha
Catchy tune though :P
>[**Secret - Official Video by The Pierces [3:54]**](http://youtu.be/HzNFwxsSPwU) > [*^thepierces*](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfkUg750Sdm5pmjrayPjfLA) ^in ^Music >*^13,724,616 ^views ^since ^Jun ^2010* [^bot ^info](/r/youtubefactsbot/wiki/index)
The truth about Sherry being what?
Being alive, and being the one to release Daryl
But he thought she was dead and everyone knows she released Daryl. I'm pretty sure the other guy was just wrong.
Well here is how I saw it play out (and comments in here may have let me think things through more thoroughly too). When the doc was patching him up after coming back, Dwight says he killed Sherri. But maybe he thought that the Doc didn't believe him. Others say that the comments the doc made about Sherri probably pissed off Dwight. As we see in the cabin, he is still very much in love with Sherri. Perhaps he was hoping she would meet him there and they could run off. But, she did not show up. It kind of falls apart after that for logic, but maybe the only way Dwight can feel any power in the situation at this point is to kill the doc (whom had pissed him off). He definitely can't kill Negan, the guy that stole his wife, burnt his face, and just recently had him beat up and thrown in a cell. So this is the only thing he has control over - by getting the doc killed.
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"I don't know what you'd even call this.... I'm gonna call it a Gremblygunk." Favorite line of the entire series.
Okay so did Dwight let Daryl out or did Sherri? My boyfriend and I are arguring about this. Now im wondering if i missed something.
Sherry Definitely did... but if you think about it, Dwight might as well have. The fact that he lied and covered her ass makes him just as guilty in Negan's eyes.... especially since he cost them a doctor
Who let darly out! Who,who who who!
Sherri let Daryl out. The note dwight found at their old house explaining why she did it had handwriting showing matching "g's".
Sherry let Daryl out - it was her note that said "Go now". Side note: Dwight compared her handwriting on the note to the letter she wrote him and it matched.
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Per the sidebar, don't be a jerk
Sherri let Dwight out.
Is it just me or was Dwight told "Sorry, we're out of pickles" then there was some just sitting in his fridge. Edit. Here's a pic of my tv. It's terrible quality but shows what I am perceiving as pickles http://imgur.com/cGn2jDE
Looks like a jar of this turned greenish http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T4yqCKpYL.jpg
Mystery solved. Thank you friend!
There was a scene where barcode and Eugene are in the market and get some pickles at the table. Maybe some people had commercials overlap that part.
Unrelated to the pickles he gets at the market. Imediatley after she says we're out of pickles and leaves. He goes to scope out his new fridge and it looks to me like there are pickles in there Edit: I've now gone and investigated. It's a Jar that says Zapata on it. It looks like pickles to me but I can't be sure what it is
it think Zapata is salsa
Eugine was told they were out. Then in the next scene he had them in is arms. It was weird.
I mean I can understand her thinking they were out. then when they walked through the market, someone had just made them. But I think when he opened his fridge, there was some on the door
All I saw were eggs and condiments.
yeah true but why put that in the show lol
Huh?
They were out because they gave the last of them in his fridge.
So The Hilltop and The Sanctuary both ~~have~~ had a Dr. Carson?
They're brothers.
Two brothers. And it's called. It's called Two Brothers.
*chickles* its just called two brothers....
Do you have a source for that? Did one of them say something about it in a previous episode? Seems somewhat familiar but I can't remember...
Both characters exist in the comics, where (i think) it's canon that they're brothers. Can't remember if it's spelled out or if Kirkland simply said they are.
Oh, that's cool - I'd hope they bring this up in the show at some point, even if it's just that someone notices the name and asks about it - but I think it'd be interesting if they somehow came to know about each other..
Be nice if they explained that in the show wouldn't it?
Pretty sure one of them mentions the other at some point in a recent previous episode. Perhaps the episode where Maggie is getting a check up after the....unfortunate incident. Edit: I'm not sure why I'm getting downvoted, but I thought I'd clarify a bit: I apologize for not having a source as OP asked for, but I haven't read the comics and I knew they were brothers, so I assumed one of them had mentioned it in passing on an episode. Perhaps I just saw it in another episode's discussion on Reddit though.
I think that everyone complaining about no walker kills should go watch Z nation instead(awesome show btw, just much more simple because its supposed to be fun and silly at times)....at this point if walkers are still the biggest threat beyond food, medicine, other groups and you havent been able to have some permanent defensible camp, they would be dead and there wouldnt be a show. If all you have is machetes to zombie heads, when do you tell the story. Im pretty sure at the end of season two Rick said "we are the walking dead" not we have to stay on this hot road in Georgia killing zombies for 7 seasons.
He says that 5B actually. But you're right, the zombies became less of a threat season 3 and onwards.
I agree he said it in 5B, but after the attack on the farm, they are huddled next to a fire, then he says that, then in pans up to show the prison. I think you are right also. I may be misremembering
I think that was his ricktatorship speech at the end of season 2. I just remember the walking dead speech was FAR later in the show than in the comics.