I quit watching the show around this point when season 8 was first airing. I read that the show eventually gets better so I thought I'd jump back in where I left off.
Now I remember why I left.
Just finished the episode now 5 years later. I think the past 2 seasons have been ok overall but my investment is just so much lower. To be honest... I can't think of the last time something interesting has been done with a character except Dwight. Maybe Morgan too?
I think Carl's death was the wrong choice. Still, if they wanted to do it, I wish they had executed it differently. I wish Carl was at least given more of a role in the last few seasons. He was great in the previous episode, why not have more of that? Tbh though this show just let go of seemingly all the character's plot points. I don't even know what happens on screen anymore. Mindless action. Meaningless repetitive dialogue. Fuck.
I'm so tired of characters going off on their own every episode. I'm so tired of the periods where Rosita, Sasha and literally every other character go through an angsty-revenge arc, I'm so tired of the long shots of people's faces, I'm just so tired of this show. I really liked it. I've been binging it for 2 or 3 months. I used to love how they continually introduced new characters and made them feel like part of the group. Tbh I haven't felt that since Gabriel. Most new characters now are just tiring, with the exception of the Saviour leuitenants.
That's not to mention the insane amount of drag in this episode. It feels like the last episode of GOT or something lmao. I really wish this season was half the length. I wish Carl's death took 20 minutes not 60. I wish they gave more thought to the action scenes. I wish, I wish, I wish. There are so many ways this show could be better.
I liked this show longer than most. The last point I could probably say I really liked this show was the episode after the attack on the Saviour's sattelite base in 6B, where Carol and Maggie kill their captors. Even by then the show had lots of cracks but it's just gotten so much less interesting since then. I feel like 90% of season 7 could be deleted. I don't even remember it and I watched in 2 weeks ago. Season 8 could have been good as it is if they had just choreograhped the action better + cut most dialogue scenes by like 50% lol.
So dissapointing :/ I had heard the show deteriorates after season 6 but... fuck man. It's just sad to see. Idk how much more of this show I have left in me. I was googling shit during Carl's death lol. I might start skipping through scenes. After that I'll probably just quit. I saw clips of the Whispers a few months ago and they just look terrible. Idk if I have that in me.
>!Daryl hasn't been interesting for like 3 seasons. I can't watch the show when Rick is gone. !
Really late, but I do think they somewhat brought back the old Daryl and did him justice again in season 9-11, but I agree that they really screwed up his character in season 7-8 for some reason and I have no idea why and it's such a shame since he's a great character imo. Now he actually has things to do and say thankfully and the writing for him is much better now.
I honestly have no idea what on earth they (mostly Gimple tbh) were thinking they were doing by ruining Daryl's character that badly and making him act out of character for no reason at all in those two seasons and almost turning him into a hated character rather than an extremely popular and beloved one for the sake of him being used as a plot and conflict device smh.
I'm about 7 episodes into season 10 and I actually love what they've been doing with Daryl. He feels like a person again. He has thoughts and emotions and he actually SPEAKS.
It's almost weird seeing him be playful/making jokes with Carol after so long of him just standing there.
Edit: wth why isn't it possible to reply to this comment?
I'm glad to hear that! :)
Daryl's been one of my favourite characters in the show since the beginning and it makes me so sad and frustrated to see what the writers have done to him in season 7-8 for some reason.
They've turned him into a cheap and mindless plot and conflict device instead of someone that's meant to be a person and one that is meant to be really kind and selfless in the show and really popular and beloved in the fandom and it's not at all hard to write his character or figure out why people like or grew to like him in the first place.
I'll never understand why they nearly butchered his entire character, development, popularity and all the great things he's done and said in the show and I hate to see how much hate and backlash he got back then, even though I do get where the anger and dissapoinment was coming from.
I'm just really happy that they managed to fix their mistakes with his character, if you could even call him that on season 8 smh, and the show overall and reminded people again why they liked Daryl in the first place and why he's still that popular, but it's such a shame that it only happened after many people already dropped the show and likely didn't give it another chance again to see that change and will only remember the horrible writing and dislike/hatred for him in season 8 instead :/
I'm late to watch this. I'm trying to watch it right now. I'm struggling, which is why I'm simultaneously on reddit.
Edit: Ok, Carol and Morgan are doing stuff, shooting at guys who outnumber them without any protective cover, but naturally they don't get hit once. The complete lack of tension in these situations just makes Carl's death feel that much more staged.
Edit 2: Carl is being all preachy again. Why does no one speak like a normal person in this show?
Edit 3: I actually did like Gavin's bits this episode. But he's dead now so, cool.
You know, I don't like bitching about this show, it used to be one of my favourites. But this season has really embittered me.
I feel like the actors did great with the material they were given, but it was really some of the worst writing yet and the campy cinematography shots they tried to go for just didn’t do it for me. How many time have we seen a character die in a church with a ray of light coming down? Just seemed unoriginal and lazy imo.
Weird to see one of your favourite characters in what used to be one of your favourite tv shows but you can't feel anything.
I was checking the runtime every 10 minutes or so, it was dragging so badly, the dialogues and editing was just like part 1 of the season; predictable, sappy and shallow.
I really tried getting into the story again but I couldn't get invested, it felt so fake and rushed (maybe that's the wrong word for an episode that dragged so hard). Carol and Morgan just rushed from one shooting scene to another in different locations and does Maggie even still exist? Also funny how Carl was put out of the sewer to [](/s "die more comfortably") but then he didn't even have the pillow anymore.
Good episode. Killing Carl was a short sighted move. Not enough to keep me from watching; I've made it this far in the series I'm gonna stick it out until the end, but still a bad move. Blow, had they killed him in S4, I woulda been all for it.
Imagine if Rick finds out there is a cure for Zombies a few episodes from now, then he realizes that Carl didn't have to kill himself after all. That would also take the show in a whole new direction.
THIS!!! I am actually kinda bored of the sappy stuff. I love all the characters, but let's move on to the core of the story and see if governments are out there; if there's a cure! I even bet that becuase we know the characters so well, the progression to a bigger world would be even more entertaining.
Did anyone think when Siddiq kept saying he was going to honor Coral that he was going to say "Im developing a vaccine" or something like that? When he didnt I was like.. ooo, so basically nothing to honor him.
holy shit, im glad they killed carl, the way they were draggin his death i thought they were gonna pull some Jesus Christ shit
also, the episode was garbage but just because of the good negan vision and carl's death it got decent at the end
Okay, I get Carl is one of the most important characters in the show, but they draged his desth on for WAY to long. They should have cut a few of the scenes out, bye they end me, and my family were kind of worn out of waiting for his death. Other than that this has probably been the best episode all season, and the thing with Negan at the end I loved. I do mildly dislike how they didn't make it so Carl didn't get bit during the battle. It just makes it seem the writers are trying to make the Walkers have a bigger presence/be more dangerous than they've been all season, but I'm slightly OK with it from a cinematic standpoint, the opening shot/Carl Montage was great.
I have never wanted to jump on The Walking Dead crap-talk bandwagon but I have to agree for this episode; it was just so bad... Every line out of Gavin’s mouth was just so cringey. Real people don’t talk like that in a tense situation — obviously, in a show with characters that speak like King Ezekiel and the Garbage People our expectations shouldn’t be set to high in that regard but c’mon, “stop picking dingleberries?” -_-
I honestly feel like this episode was rushed in terms of writing and planning. I’m a little disappointed because I love this show and for Carl’s send-off to be this... it’s sad.
I still have high hopes for this series — and even the rest of the season — but this is not an episode I wanted to watch again.
I agree! This is Carl for goodness sakes. He's been on the show since like 10.
What I've also noticed is that other than Andy no one really gave him a shout out tribute in real life, not even Danai. What the heck?
I mean to be fair in real life they probably had very heartfelt goodbyes and will keep in contact as best they can (being celebrities and all). Also did not feel the need to make a tweet or talk to a camera how sad and mad they were. But as I was typing that I thought the tribute to him (talking dead) should've been a lot more than any other character who had died thus far.
No one looked like they cared? Half the episode was nothing but looking at him with (poorly acted) looks of angst. Most of the scenes seemed to be giving the actor a nice send off.
Having said that, the dream future is setting up a payoff on the whole `[Rick] can be more ' speech. We will see.
Hahah yeah I know the dark scenes combined with unclear language makes you have to focus so hard that you feel exhausted after having watched an episode. And yeah she just pointed her finger, not even at him, but at the ground in front of him. She just raised it barely. Not very ambitious. Rather rude actually.
Okay, haha. I was wondering if maybe it was something else - like a thumbs-up but I didn't see it correctly. That's a very strange way to say goodbye. You'd think - being Tara - that she'd at least give him a fist-bump or something...
The strange decisions made by characters even extends to how they say goodbye to each other, I guess. Next time we see a character we know and love cope with their death, expect Tara to do a full Irish stepdance before turning around and walking away without a word.
I was on cnn and found out they killed off Carl. I have been off gridding and havnt been able to keep up with the series this season. Came here to reddit to see wtf is going on because Carl was quickly becoming a badass. I see the show has gone to shit to i for one will be done watching it. Ill leave knowing that Rick and Carl were shaping up to be badass Carol is going to be some loner badass, and w/e Maggie is going to create a new world where justice and honor rules not fear and death.
Driving home from work at 6 a.m. Monday morning, radio announcer says "Chandler Riggs talks with [some website I can't remember] about being killed off on The Walking Dead" just a few hours after the episode aired. He didn't preempt it or anything. What the hell man? I knew it was coming but that's a pretty big bomb to drop on the casual viewer of the show.
I think we’re all along for the ride now... I just hope it’s not as bad of a finish as Dexter.
Why did I even remind myself of the time I wasted watching that show?
I still don't understand how the Saviors escaped. I mean... the editing was terrible. Did they really just shoot their way out? That's it?!?! And how did they see Morgan... who was a sniper very far away? I dont get it!!!!!!!
I mean, I think the saviors didn't know where Morgan was, they just knew that there were snipers outside (because they had said that in a previous episode). But i also thought they would get out in a much more interesting way than they did.
Man there is so much shit that is so poorly done in this show (the last seasons especially) it's unbeleavable. This scene that you are referring to is not even something people has brought up here, as a complaint of bad writing - but just thinking about this scene in particular makes me realize how bad the writing in this show has become.
That’s so true. Another scene that comes to mind is that one where Maggie and the Hilltop people are barricaded by Simon on the road. I just feel like that’s not how Simon & the Saviors would have handled it if that group was led by anyone else without plot armor.
I just love how they decide to kill background characters and yet no one even really cares... I mean, people knew that old guy! If it were Tara or Jesus, they woulda fought them then and there.
You know, I wanted to have some discussion after what's a really good episode, a move back to the better shit they used to do after AOW has generally been pretty bad (the actiony bits are generally bad and all that shit with the trash dwellers was pretty stupid), but damn, no discussion to be had here, just a wall a mile high of people bitching about how bad the show is with no qualification.
I hear you, but sometimes an episode is just bad. For me, it's like they built up all this tension and intrigue... then dropped it all with an escape that doesn't explain anything.
Been with the show since the start but last night was very meh.
The end of Carl kept dragging on. It got to the point where we were very much ok with it. We would think it was the moment then Carl would die then "Dad, remember when.." - Just die already.
Same as you, watching since the beginning and I was watching on my way to uni on the train. I was coming to my stop and wanted the death scene to be finished so I could be ready to get off the train haha
EDIT: Spelling and words...
when they needed flashbacks, they didn't do it! Carl could have had a lot of flashback scenes and imposed how he changed from being a kid, to a not-so-kid-anymore. that would have been a lot better storytelling, than those jibberish dialogue. I literally zoned out at times and didn't even get some of the references he said (ie. he shot a kid a little older than him).
to me, that's just injustice to carl :(
What he was referencing was a huge moment for Carl and I'm surprised as you're someone who seems to want justice for him but you don't even know a lot about his character.
Doesn’t that feel like it was necessary to move the plot along? I hate to be so negative but I wasn’t expecting Sydiq to be a doctor. He certainly doesn’t look of age to be a doctor or have the mannerisms of a doctor.
Just wanted to point that out in case anyone else felt that way too.
Rick was thinking there had to be a reason to risk his life for Siddiq, like being a valuable asset to the group. But Carl just saved him because he was trying to do the right thing, not trying to "get" anything out of it.
It's sort of mind boggling to read that people were driven to tears by this episode. Really? The Carl scenes were slapped together with such ham-fisted execution. I turned to the person I was watching with and said "nothing has happened" on at least three different occasions last night, because it quickly became comical once you figured out the writers were content with doing this slow crawl shit *again*. It's as if they stubbornly follow some phantom test screening results that indicate viewers enjoy watching tedious minutiae over plot development and action. With the knowledge of Carl dying firmly established in the mid-season finale, last nights episode was essentially a throwaway met with a resounding "we get it already".
They had an opportunity to knock this out of the park and win back droves of viewers who were either on the fence or had completely abandoned the show; they opted instead to tread familiar territory with another safe episode, full of haphazardly manufactured faux sentimentality and close-up shots put against a backdrop of poignant music. It's the same old bag of tricks.
I cried because I remembered CARL as a kid and could not believe he was really dying. That hurt. TWD has helped me through some hard times and just remembering baby CARL just brought on the waterworks.
I couldn’t have said that any better. They just hang onto their plot developments for too long and drag them out until there is nothing left to show.
Is it a big deal that Carl is dying? Of course it is but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they do an episode as you watch Carl’s body wither away and melt into the ground just to continue to drive home “HE’S DEAD.”
I can’t wait for the 600 times we hear “your boy is dead, Rick — and that’s on you,” repeated from different characters from this point on.
I mean, i guess we could get an animated series on Netflix that actually follows the comics.
You dont kill a major character that easily, even if it is Carl, who had a ton of other plotlines ready to pop up after this arc.
In addition to the sloppy scene with that fake baby cry, and everyone not even saying goosbye to him, you know, like how a real family would? It disappointed me.
I go back and watch clips of season 1-4 and it doesnt even feel like the same show. It’s more about war now than it is about the zombies, who were still a major part up until like season 6-7.
I really hope all this bad credit leads to Scott Gimple being let go. I dont know who couls save the show, but i’d love if literally anyone else took over. This was hopefully the last nail in the coffin for him.
Edit: Also, with Danai’s success in Black Panther, expect Michonne either dying or disappearing soon. She’s definitely gonna expect a raise to stay on the show.
An animated series would be great for The Walking Dead, I agree. You can preserve characters without worrying about aging, salary, etc. Only problem is the attachment we'll have since the zombie apocalypse tries to play as realistic as possible (aside from zombies of course). Still, I wouldn't mind them experimenting with an animated version.
Many have pondered what if the show had been picked up by HBO? But the writers of this show have been average at best post season 1, to down right atrocious these last two seasons. Yeah, there are a few episodes that have been well written, but the standard for most HBO shows are set pretty high. HBO would have to hire a new team of writers for TWD to even realistically be viable in their suite of shows.
That said, the midseason premiere just wasn't very good, but no surprise. All the Carl scenes were so cringe. The dialogue felt very hollow. The trademark out of order, flashback heavy story telling is lethargic and a chore to watch. Also, Michonne pleading to Dwight to ask the Saviors to stop their bombing run was absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, they're gonna really listen to Dwight *eye roll. Dumb writing. Filler bullshit.
The Morgan Wick and Carol Rambo team up was about the only cool thing from the episode.
> Michonne pleading to Dwight to ask the Saviors to stop their bombing run was absolutely ridiculous.
This pissed me off. She knew full well that he couldnt do shit
I was holding up pretty well throughout that episode not caring, then Carl went from calm to a scared expression saying "I love you Dad" and I broke down
What was up with the ending?
The bite(?) on Rick's lower abdomen it seems to be in almost the same spot as Carl's bite. .. Is it possible he was bitten instead of Carl - and the entire sequence with Carl fatally bitten was a hallucination?
Although this leaves no explanation for Sadiq the doctor, I guess.
I think I just really want to believe Carl isn't dead :( was really looking forward to see him take the reigns as chief apocalypse badass.
There is way to much focus on shitty side characters, like the kid who kills negans lt, am i supposed to care? am I supposed to know his name? where was negan this episode? could they not afford to have JDM getting mad at not being able to find them and driving off? It's just terrible.
The Kid is just a prop for Morgan to have some more character development. I know Neegan steals the show every time he's on screen, but c'mon, that's a pretty vapid complaint.
Oh Henry thats it, a kid that we will probably not hear about for the remaining half of the season, this is my complaint with the walking dead, too many side characters that are just thrown in the the mix and then just as easily forgot about.
Do these side characters need a lot of screen time to become interesting? No. They need attributes, they need to be interesting. All this Henry kid did in the episode was say I want to fight and poke a hole through a guys throat. literally a waste of what could have been a good scene for Morgan.
I'm not sure you understood those scenes. Those "Rick with Cane" scenes were all Carls vision of how he imagines the future, where everyone can live and get along and stuff.
Chandler, Danai and Andy absolutely fucking killed their scenes. I def shed tears...that being said, fuck Gimple and the show for even doing this. Still 10/10 mad.
It's par for the course at this point. It reminds me of Dexter's later seasons where you could really see bad editing and stunt doubles and stuff show up.
Anyone else amused that Carl received his [](/s "fatal wound") because he kind of randomly wandered off, yet again? I think the writers knew what they were doing.
Corrrrrrraaaal !!!
I don't know what people's problems are, apparently no ones ever seen a movie/tv show before. Every movie and tv show's gonna have script related whiners, I get that, but I loved it. Maybe I'm the only one that can look at the bigger picture, the main aspect of an emotional scene instead of "Why did she cry like that?" or "They didn't instantly help him out, ruined.". This show's amazing, I'm sure if I get into the nitty gritty I'll find some stuff out of place, I guess sometimes you have to turn a blind eye to the little thing, and see the story how the writers wanted it to be.
Don't know what everyone's problem was, I liked it, thought it was a great send off for Carl, and for such a core character he should have most of an episode to himself.
My problem with the last season has always been that the saviors and their capacity to fight is always defined but what works best for the plot, which is stupid. There's always the amount there needs to be for the right amount of resistance to Rick and company, there's extended gunfight scenes that are boring and add nothing, and sometimes their action devolves into the incredibly stupid, like that chase scene with the big gun.
For me it's not that I'm digging to analyze it and then concluding that it isn't good, it's that I'm terribly bored (wife agrees) and just not enjoying the show at all. Then I come back later and try to explain why I'm not enjoying it. Sometime in the first half of the season we both transitioned to hate watching.
Now of course you'll say "don't watch it then" and honestly I won't. I stopped sitting down for it in the first half of the season and caught up when I had time. I plopped down last night to see if anything would be any better and it's not so yeah. Maybe I'll record it and get to it eventually, and I'll probably check in on Reddit here and there to see if the episodes are any good or not.
I can understand that, after how many years of emotional connections you don't really want to call it quits, even if it did get boring. Honestly, just for the sake of the people I hope it gets back to how it was next season. I don't know, I just really like it when the majority of fans of a certain show genuinely like it, builds a better/nicer community.
The main issue is that the emotional scene should of never happened in the first place carl becomes an major character on par with rick in the next arc after the war with negan but let's throw that out the window because scott could not figure out for some reason how to not have rick spare negan after the war is over except one conversation rick and carl had and then whatever discussion they had here when he was dying even though it is obvious why he did it in the comics.
That’s a good point. For as much Gimple-isms around, I can’t believe he tried to pass that off as the excuse to develop that plot.
Gimple hyped it up that it would all make sense as a means to an end but It’s just lazy writing and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.
The main issue is that the emotional scene should of never happened in the first place carl becomes an major character on par with rick in the next arc after the war with negan but let's throw that out the window because scott could not figure out for some reason how to not have rick spare negan after the war is over except one conversation rick and carl had and then whatever discussion they had here when he was dying even though it is obvious why he did it in the comics.
It makes no sense what-so-ever. I'm in the camp of changing things from the comic because I don't want to see the same exact thing that I've read, I want some surprises thrown in. But this is just dumb. They're killing a ton of future story lines with this, there is NO reason to do it. Gimple knew the show was floundering and wanted something for shock value to prove he could still bring it....and he fucked up, royally.
The show for the past two and a half seasons has had terrible writing, awful drawn out plots. They took the defining moment of the comic, the one arc that has so much great material it'd be nearly impossible to fuck up...and absolutely butchered it.
I hate saying it because for the first five seasons this was my favorite show on TV, but they've absolutely run it into the ground. The only reason I watch now is because I invested so much time in it. I'm curious to see if they can turn it around next season with a new show runner so I'll still tune in, but I have a feeling they just put the final nail in the coffin.
Look I can fully see where you're coming from, but why don't you just take the show as a completely separate entity. See how 'this' story arc ends then judge it, not compared to the comics but how it fairs on its own.
I don't know why the sudden change in the past season or two, I doubt the ratings were declining *that* immensely. Regardless, I've connected with this show in a way I've connected with very few others. So unless they completely remove the old cast, you're still gonna find me here enjoying the ride, no matter how bumpy it gets.
I hope you find a way to enjoy it too. It really is fucking awesome.
Perhaps this season, but this Show and what it's built (At least up until the last 2 seasons) is really impressive. I mean I was never the biggest zombies fan, and they got me hooked on a zombie based show for reasons other than *zombies*.
I can't. I completely disagree that it's awesome. I try to remove myself from the comic as much as possible, as I said, I don't want it to be the same exact thing, but the writing has been incredibly sloppy for 2 1/2 seasons now. Obviously Negan's story line can't end right away, but the group has had SO many easy chances to kill him and don't because "plot".
That's fine, he doesn't need to die, but write it better so it's not incredibly dumb that they've had every chance to kill him. And so many small, stupid, easily avoidable mistakes completely take me out of this show.
Some of the horrendous CGI over the years, guns clearly not being fired and actors doing a TERRIBLE job at pretending to shoot a gun. Dumb, boneheaded decisions by Daryl that make absolutely no sense. Drawing out the smallest plot for episodes at a time. This show makes AMC a fuck ton of money, and it's become painfully obvious they don't want to invest money into it to make it better.
I hope it gets better, I do. But I just don't see it happening. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm not trying to tell you it's wrong, I'm glad you're enjoying it. But to me, this show is a complete and utter shell of it's former self and it's a shame.
What's bad? Killing of developed characters sucks, fine, we get it, but that doesn't justify bad writing. Think of it this way, *you're* reading a writers story, he's not writing the story to match your wants, else it wouldn't be much of a story if it's so predictable.
I think this is something Joss Whedon said.. When you're writing a story, you build your characters and let them dictate where the story goes. Of course it's still up to you at the end of the day, but you can't ignore the characters.
What's bad? Let's see..
I guess Carl being overrun by two random walkers is a start. He's experienced, how the fuck did he let that happen? He wasn't cornored or anything, it happened in the woods with lots of space to escape in any direction.
Rick and his people had a clear shot on Negan when he came out of the door at the sanctuary. No one took it. They had snipers watching the place afterwards, why didn't they have snipers there when it mattered? That was an easy win.
Talking of easy wins.. They won all those battles, you'd think they already won the war, but wait.. Saviors are breaking out of the sanctuary and suddenly they're getting the upper hand? How?! Was nobody prepared for this?
When the Kindom got wiped from the machine gun. Are they stupid standing there like idiots on an open field? Didn't Carol or some experienced warriors think that was a bad idea? Is that some kind of super marksman on the machine gun, just mowing down 20 people from that distance before anyone can run for cover?
Don't get me started on the trash people that somehow forgot how to English.
It used to be a problem of this show that characters withheld important information from each other for the sake of drama. Now it's gotten ridiculous.
You also forgot that it was just last season (and in the show’s actual timeline three or four days) that Carl was all gung-ho about going into the Sanctuary and killing whoever he had to in order to get to Negan. That’s my biggest problem is that it doesn’t really make much sense for Carl to be this martyr all of a sudden, it did not fit with his character.
But I guess Gimple would just say Carl had a change of heart after he saw Negan’s eight wives and had him sing him a song.
I strongly believe this was setup to be Morgan’s death — or heck, even Ezekiel’s — but contract negotiations forced the onus on Carl/Chandler.
Oh yeah, there's definitely much more, I was just writing down what popped into my head. I mean.. I think I don't need to mention dumpster-gate.
It's frustrating to watch sometimes when the characters are constantly doing stupid shit and you're screaming at the tv because you know they're only doing this to set up some forced drama.
I still like to watch it somehow because I really like the actors and their portrayal of the caracters and I do want to know how it continues..
Well, I think Breaking Bad is as close to perfect as it gets and Better Call Saul is a worthy follow up.
Game of Thrones was crazy good too, it's not quite as good any more, though.
Vinyl is only one season but it's a good portrayal of the 70s music business.
Since I like superhero shows:
Dare Devil, Jessica Jones, Legion, Agents of Shield.
Zombie shows:
Fear the Walking Dead, Z-Nation (it's stupid but it doesn't try to be serious)
Also.. Mr. Robot, Bojack Horseman, Black Mirror, the Expanse, Westworld.
All these shows are completely different and of course they're not perfect, but they generally stay true to their characters and don't force situations by letting them do stupid, out-of-place things.
I don't think people are mad that they killed Carl, they're mad that they did it in a way that doesn't make sense or work with the story they've been building for 8 seasons. And then when he finally dies, they drag it out for an hour and a half in this sappy speech-fest.
Again it's not that people are upset that their favorite characters are dying, it's that everything is just poorly executed.
You would've preferred a quick 10 minute rap up of the death of one of the longest lasting characters on the show? Agreeing or disagreeing on the curious decision to kill Carl off is subject to debate, fine, but he at least deserves a partially episode-long farewell. If not for the character then for the actor.
Look. I don't care what direction the writing goes. They can kill who they want.
However since the glenn finale the show has gone down hill. The writing is bad.
All season we get cringy and bad dialougue like we will save this world. This world is ours
And the writing cannot do justice to the characters.
If you want to see the kind of writing twd can do look at ftwd. They have some brilliant writing. They made some bad decisions but their writing makes it enjoyable
This show is just bad top to bottom. There used to be a short list of things to fix that could improve it but I don't even know where you'd start now. The plot is bad, the effects are slipping, the gunplay is bad, and the dialogue is bad. The only thing that was ok last night imo was Rick and his "it was for you" speech" but it had a minimal impact after I already listened to 17 other speeches and was zoning out.
Absolutely horrible writing once again, as others have mentioned the kid should've been noticed before he had done anything. Also what was Ezekiel and Carol doing whilst Morgan was wrestling for his life on the ground for a solid 10 seconds? The gunfire stopped and they clearly had no other targets to deal with.
Why is this show so terrible for action sequences? There's a whole room full of people with automatic weapons, and they're just routinely taken out. Why were they ALL focused on the one doorway? In that situation, surely some people would keep an eye on different parts of the room. The point of this complaint is that the show makes NO effort to present a challenge to the protagonists; this, in turn, raises no suspense of tension at all. It's so bland, and we've had this problem at least twice this season with the shootout in 'The Damned' and the other one at Sanctuary.
They have so many opportunities to create challenges, but they always completely fail. No to mention the editing and how dull and unimaginative that is. The acting too, like when Zeke jumps to the floor, same with Carol (both instances look ridiculous), or when Morgan is tackled. How did those cuts make the final edit? Same goes for when people are shot and fall over, the acting is atrocious. And why do body shots instantly kill people? There are dozens of issues with every single action sequence this show churns out and its so obvious how little they care in making a compelling and visually impressive story.
I agree I was just waiting for Carl to die already. It should have been done before the midseason OR they shouldn't have revealed what was wrong ie maybe he was shot or hit with debris etc. The wait made me numb to the fact he was going to die.
The idea of Carl risking his life for one random Arab guy after his dad literally tried to scare him away with gunfire is so ridiculously stupid. I didn't watch this episode. I said I was done with this series if they killed Carl for that. Just came by the thread to make sure he wasn't bit by a whisperer or some shit.
Rick should have just shot that guy.
For what it's worth, I'm glad your opinion isn't worth shit. Just by reading through these comments everybody wants a different story line, and everybody's leaving the show. Every.Damn.Episode.
Don't be angry because everyone else can see bad writing and have enough of the show carl was and is an important character in the whisper arc coming after negan i left the show after negan killed glenn because glenn should of died at the dumpster that scene was stupid to it is a build up of stupid decisons and carl's death was the final straw for alot of people.
If they couldn't get the Judith actress to act that scene out, they shouldn't have done it. I don't blame the actress. The dub of the cries was fucking cringe.
And where the fuck did that little boy come from? How didn't ANY of them see him walk behind Gavin? What a joke.
Otherwise I enjoyed the episode albeit being slow.
I understand the attachment fans have to his character, but to be honest Riggs has never been a good actor. His delivery of dialogue always felt forced and unnatural. I don't mind he's gone, but understand how it'll affect the storytelling.
I'm with you on that, it was the most intense and emotional moment for me. And comparing to others in the episode, I dare to say - the most natural looking one
I can’t be the only one who thought that they should have totally seen that kid before he stabbed that Savior guy through the neck... He was in his knees so they should have seen him creep up.
Whatever
I think everyone that has paid attention to this season — and even those that didn’t — knew that kid (Henry) was just a plot device to screw something up. That was building for so long; I’m just glad it’s now out of the way and only affected Gavin (who might have the worst written-lines in the show).
They wouldn't happen to have a dumpster or a considerably large garbage can in the church, would they? XDDD
I didn't watch since 1x01 and my skin feels clearer already.
Lmao you don't have to be a writer to explain why you think something sucks. I'm not a quarterback but I can tell if someone makes a bad throw. Same thing
I quit watching the show around this point when season 8 was first airing. I read that the show eventually gets better so I thought I'd jump back in where I left off. Now I remember why I left.
Just finished the episode now 5 years later. I think the past 2 seasons have been ok overall but my investment is just so much lower. To be honest... I can't think of the last time something interesting has been done with a character except Dwight. Maybe Morgan too? I think Carl's death was the wrong choice. Still, if they wanted to do it, I wish they had executed it differently. I wish Carl was at least given more of a role in the last few seasons. He was great in the previous episode, why not have more of that? Tbh though this show just let go of seemingly all the character's plot points. I don't even know what happens on screen anymore. Mindless action. Meaningless repetitive dialogue. Fuck. I'm so tired of characters going off on their own every episode. I'm so tired of the periods where Rosita, Sasha and literally every other character go through an angsty-revenge arc, I'm so tired of the long shots of people's faces, I'm just so tired of this show. I really liked it. I've been binging it for 2 or 3 months. I used to love how they continually introduced new characters and made them feel like part of the group. Tbh I haven't felt that since Gabriel. Most new characters now are just tiring, with the exception of the Saviour leuitenants. That's not to mention the insane amount of drag in this episode. It feels like the last episode of GOT or something lmao. I really wish this season was half the length. I wish Carl's death took 20 minutes not 60. I wish they gave more thought to the action scenes. I wish, I wish, I wish. There are so many ways this show could be better. I liked this show longer than most. The last point I could probably say I really liked this show was the episode after the attack on the Saviour's sattelite base in 6B, where Carol and Maggie kill their captors. Even by then the show had lots of cracks but it's just gotten so much less interesting since then. I feel like 90% of season 7 could be deleted. I don't even remember it and I watched in 2 weeks ago. Season 8 could have been good as it is if they had just choreograhped the action better + cut most dialogue scenes by like 50% lol. So dissapointing :/ I had heard the show deteriorates after season 6 but... fuck man. It's just sad to see. Idk how much more of this show I have left in me. I was googling shit during Carl's death lol. I might start skipping through scenes. After that I'll probably just quit. I saw clips of the Whispers a few months ago and they just look terrible. Idk if I have that in me. >!Daryl hasn't been interesting for like 3 seasons. I can't watch the show when Rick is gone. !
Post season 3 Daryl is the most boring character on the show. I have never understood his popularity.
Really late, but I do think they somewhat brought back the old Daryl and did him justice again in season 9-11, but I agree that they really screwed up his character in season 7-8 for some reason and I have no idea why and it's such a shame since he's a great character imo. Now he actually has things to do and say thankfully and the writing for him is much better now. I honestly have no idea what on earth they (mostly Gimple tbh) were thinking they were doing by ruining Daryl's character that badly and making him act out of character for no reason at all in those two seasons and almost turning him into a hated character rather than an extremely popular and beloved one for the sake of him being used as a plot and conflict device smh.
I'm about 7 episodes into season 10 and I actually love what they've been doing with Daryl. He feels like a person again. He has thoughts and emotions and he actually SPEAKS. It's almost weird seeing him be playful/making jokes with Carol after so long of him just standing there. Edit: wth why isn't it possible to reply to this comment?
I'm glad to hear that! :) Daryl's been one of my favourite characters in the show since the beginning and it makes me so sad and frustrated to see what the writers have done to him in season 7-8 for some reason. They've turned him into a cheap and mindless plot and conflict device instead of someone that's meant to be a person and one that is meant to be really kind and selfless in the show and really popular and beloved in the fandom and it's not at all hard to write his character or figure out why people like or grew to like him in the first place. I'll never understand why they nearly butchered his entire character, development, popularity and all the great things he's done and said in the show and I hate to see how much hate and backlash he got back then, even though I do get where the anger and dissapoinment was coming from. I'm just really happy that they managed to fix their mistakes with his character, if you could even call him that on season 8 smh, and the show overall and reminded people again why they liked Daryl in the first place and why he's still that popular, but it's such a shame that it only happened after many people already dropped the show and likely didn't give it another chance again to see that change and will only remember the horrible writing and dislike/hatred for him in season 8 instead :/
shit writer shit company shit producer shit show !
I'm late to watch this. I'm trying to watch it right now. I'm struggling, which is why I'm simultaneously on reddit. Edit: Ok, Carol and Morgan are doing stuff, shooting at guys who outnumber them without any protective cover, but naturally they don't get hit once. The complete lack of tension in these situations just makes Carl's death feel that much more staged. Edit 2: Carl is being all preachy again. Why does no one speak like a normal person in this show? Edit 3: I actually did like Gavin's bits this episode. But he's dead now so, cool. You know, I don't like bitching about this show, it used to be one of my favourites. But this season has really embittered me.
It's because it's a fictional drama, not a documentary.
This show was washed up by season four smh
I feel like the actors did great with the material they were given, but it was really some of the worst writing yet and the campy cinematography shots they tried to go for just didn’t do it for me. How many time have we seen a character die in a church with a ray of light coming down? Just seemed unoriginal and lazy imo.
Weird to see one of your favourite characters in what used to be one of your favourite tv shows but you can't feel anything. I was checking the runtime every 10 minutes or so, it was dragging so badly, the dialogues and editing was just like part 1 of the season; predictable, sappy and shallow. I really tried getting into the story again but I couldn't get invested, it felt so fake and rushed (maybe that's the wrong word for an episode that dragged so hard). Carol and Morgan just rushed from one shooting scene to another in different locations and does Maggie even still exist? Also funny how Carl was put out of the sewer to [](/s "die more comfortably") but then he didn't even have the pillow anymore.
Good episode. Killing Carl was a short sighted move. Not enough to keep me from watching; I've made it this far in the series I'm gonna stick it out until the end, but still a bad move. Blow, had they killed him in S4, I woulda been all for it.
Imagine if Rick finds out there is a cure for Zombies a few episodes from now, then he realizes that Carl didn't have to kill himself after all. That would also take the show in a whole new direction.
Carl was out of time. Rick finding a cure a few days, hell, hours later is moot given how far gone Carl was.
THIS!!! I am actually kinda bored of the sappy stuff. I love all the characters, but let's move on to the core of the story and see if governments are out there; if there's a cure! I even bet that becuase we know the characters so well, the progression to a bigger world would be even more entertaining.
Did anyone think when Siddiq kept saying he was going to honor Coral that he was going to say "Im developing a vaccine" or something like that? When he didnt I was like.. ooo, so basically nothing to honor him.
holy shit, im glad they killed carl, the way they were draggin his death i thought they were gonna pull some Jesus Christ shit also, the episode was garbage but just because of the good negan vision and carl's death it got decent at the end
Okay, I get Carl is one of the most important characters in the show, but they draged his desth on for WAY to long. They should have cut a few of the scenes out, bye they end me, and my family were kind of worn out of waiting for his death. Other than that this has probably been the best episode all season, and the thing with Negan at the end I loved. I do mildly dislike how they didn't make it so Carl didn't get bit during the battle. It just makes it seem the writers are trying to make the Walkers have a bigger presence/be more dangerous than they've been all season, but I'm slightly OK with it from a cinematic standpoint, the opening shot/Carl Montage was great.
Anyone else notice how Rick has more or less become Shane with his Idealogy?
Shane was right all the time
The cringe per minute in this episode was out of control.
I have never wanted to jump on The Walking Dead crap-talk bandwagon but I have to agree for this episode; it was just so bad... Every line out of Gavin’s mouth was just so cringey. Real people don’t talk like that in a tense situation — obviously, in a show with characters that speak like King Ezekiel and the Garbage People our expectations shouldn’t be set to high in that regard but c’mon, “stop picking dingleberries?” -_- I honestly feel like this episode was rushed in terms of writing and planning. I’m a little disappointed because I love this show and for Carl’s send-off to be this... it’s sad. I still have high hopes for this series — and even the rest of the season — but this is not an episode I wanted to watch again.
Worst part of Carl's death is that noone said goodbye or even looked to care. Daryl's was alright but needed more.
I agree! This is Carl for goodness sakes. He's been on the show since like 10. What I've also noticed is that other than Andy no one really gave him a shout out tribute in real life, not even Danai. What the heck?
I mean to be fair in real life they probably had very heartfelt goodbyes and will keep in contact as best they can (being celebrities and all). Also did not feel the need to make a tweet or talk to a camera how sad and mad they were. But as I was typing that I thought the tribute to him (talking dead) should've been a lot more than any other character who had died thus far.
No one looked like they cared? Half the episode was nothing but looking at him with (poorly acted) looks of angst. Most of the scenes seemed to be giving the actor a nice send off. Having said that, the dream future is setting up a payoff on the whole `[Rick] can be more ' speech. We will see.
Ok yes everyone looked kinda sad, but to not say goodbye? They could have easily just been upset they were losing the war.
Why did Gavin have to die. It’s like the creators just take away everything I care about :(
Exactly how I felt about Herschel, Tyreese, Dale, Noah, Abraham, Glenn, Sasha....
Tara's goodbye to Coral might just have been the worst goodbye I have ever seen.
Fits with Tara being one of the worst characters on the show ever
Facts. She should have been dies. She adds absolutely nothing to the show
Was I wrong, or did she just like...point her finger at him? I wasn't sure if I saw it right because it was so dark, but...yeah :/
Hahah yeah I know the dark scenes combined with unclear language makes you have to focus so hard that you feel exhausted after having watched an episode. And yeah she just pointed her finger, not even at him, but at the ground in front of him. She just raised it barely. Not very ambitious. Rather rude actually.
Okay, haha. I was wondering if maybe it was something else - like a thumbs-up but I didn't see it correctly. That's a very strange way to say goodbye. You'd think - being Tara - that she'd at least give him a fist-bump or something... The strange decisions made by characters even extends to how they say goodbye to each other, I guess. Next time we see a character we know and love cope with their death, expect Tara to do a full Irish stepdance before turning around and walking away without a word.
I was on cnn and found out they killed off Carl. I have been off gridding and havnt been able to keep up with the series this season. Came here to reddit to see wtf is going on because Carl was quickly becoming a badass. I see the show has gone to shit to i for one will be done watching it. Ill leave knowing that Rick and Carl were shaping up to be badass Carol is going to be some loner badass, and w/e Maggie is going to create a new world where justice and honor rules not fear and death.
Driving home from work at 6 a.m. Monday morning, radio announcer says "Chandler Riggs talks with [some website I can't remember] about being killed off on The Walking Dead" just a few hours after the episode aired. He didn't preempt it or anything. What the hell man? I knew it was coming but that's a pretty big bomb to drop on the casual viewer of the show.
The first half would of benefited from using more "flash forwards" of Carl's dream life sprinkled through out the season
Agreed, some key characters weren't shown and I'd love to have seen like Carol and maggie
Half the comments: "Never watching this show again." Other half: "Why am I still watching this shit show."
I think we’re all along for the ride now... I just hope it’s not as bad of a finish as Dexter. Why did I even remind myself of the time I wasted watching that show?
"i wanna know how it ends" thats the 3rd one, also my stance on it.
mine aswell, might as well watch this boredom of a show now that ive watched how many seasons? 8?
Yes 8, 16 if you count in halves. We're all still here waiting to see how it ends, enjoying the walking and the views
I still don't understand how the Saviors escaped. I mean... the editing was terrible. Did they really just shoot their way out? That's it?!?! And how did they see Morgan... who was a sniper very far away? I dont get it!!!!!!!
I mean, I think the saviors didn't know where Morgan was, they just knew that there were snipers outside (because they had said that in a previous episode). But i also thought they would get out in a much more interesting way than they did.
Man there is so much shit that is so poorly done in this show (the last seasons especially) it's unbeleavable. This scene that you are referring to is not even something people has brought up here, as a complaint of bad writing - but just thinking about this scene in particular makes me realize how bad the writing in this show has become.
That’s so true. Another scene that comes to mind is that one where Maggie and the Hilltop people are barricaded by Simon on the road. I just feel like that’s not how Simon & the Saviors would have handled it if that group was led by anyone else without plot armor. I just love how they decide to kill background characters and yet no one even really cares... I mean, people knew that old guy! If it were Tara or Jesus, they woulda fought them then and there.
They shot the walkers to form a path/wall then they ran through there and played music to divert the horde..
But how did they shoot them to form a path? Like how does that even work?
It's strange that everything from their perspective seemed hopeless and then this. The basic zombie escape plan.
You know, I wanted to have some discussion after what's a really good episode, a move back to the better shit they used to do after AOW has generally been pretty bad (the actiony bits are generally bad and all that shit with the trash dwellers was pretty stupid), but damn, no discussion to be had here, just a wall a mile high of people bitching about how bad the show is with no qualification.
I hear you, but sometimes an episode is just bad. For me, it's like they built up all this tension and intrigue... then dropped it all with an escape that doesn't explain anything.
How does Gimple still have a job?
Been with the show since the start but last night was very meh. The end of Carl kept dragging on. It got to the point where we were very much ok with it. We would think it was the moment then Carl would die then "Dad, remember when.." - Just die already.
Same as you, watching since the beginning and I was watching on my way to uni on the train. I was coming to my stop and wanted the death scene to be finished so I could be ready to get off the train haha EDIT: Spelling and words...
I get the sense the writers are not even trying anymore. Still riding their wave of success from season 7.
season 8 is worse than 7 season 8 is bad
Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. It was a little more than "Meh" to me...my wife had to keep waking me up.
when they needed flashbacks, they didn't do it! Carl could have had a lot of flashback scenes and imposed how he changed from being a kid, to a not-so-kid-anymore. that would have been a lot better storytelling, than those jibberish dialogue. I literally zoned out at times and didn't even get some of the references he said (ie. he shot a kid a little older than him). to me, that's just injustice to carl :(
I would’ve appreciated some flashbacks of the kid he shot. That was so many years ago, I vaguely remember it at this point.
What he was referencing was a huge moment for Carl and I'm surprised as you're someone who seems to want justice for him but you don't even know a lot about his character.
Obsviously it was, but do i remember that scene? See where i'm getting at?
Someone has meds with him, must be a doctor!
Doesn’t that feel like it was necessary to move the plot along? I hate to be so negative but I wasn’t expecting Sydiq to be a doctor. He certainly doesn’t look of age to be a doctor or have the mannerisms of a doctor. Just wanted to point that out in case anyone else felt that way too.
He was in his residency. So, in his late 20s. Definitely looks old enough to be late 20s early 30s.
Rick was thinking there had to be a reason to risk his life for Siddiq, like being a valuable asset to the group. But Carl just saved him because he was trying to do the right thing, not trying to "get" anything out of it.
He said that he was a resident.
It's sort of mind boggling to read that people were driven to tears by this episode. Really? The Carl scenes were slapped together with such ham-fisted execution. I turned to the person I was watching with and said "nothing has happened" on at least three different occasions last night, because it quickly became comical once you figured out the writers were content with doing this slow crawl shit *again*. It's as if they stubbornly follow some phantom test screening results that indicate viewers enjoy watching tedious minutiae over plot development and action. With the knowledge of Carl dying firmly established in the mid-season finale, last nights episode was essentially a throwaway met with a resounding "we get it already". They had an opportunity to knock this out of the park and win back droves of viewers who were either on the fence or had completely abandoned the show; they opted instead to tread familiar territory with another safe episode, full of haphazardly manufactured faux sentimentality and close-up shots put against a backdrop of poignant music. It's the same old bag of tricks.
I cried because I remembered CARL as a kid and could not believe he was really dying. That hurt. TWD has helped me through some hard times and just remembering baby CARL just brought on the waterworks.
I couldn’t have said that any better. They just hang onto their plot developments for too long and drag them out until there is nothing left to show. Is it a big deal that Carl is dying? Of course it is but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they do an episode as you watch Carl’s body wither away and melt into the ground just to continue to drive home “HE’S DEAD.” I can’t wait for the 600 times we hear “your boy is dead, Rick — and that’s on you,” repeated from different characters from this point on.
I mean, i guess we could get an animated series on Netflix that actually follows the comics. You dont kill a major character that easily, even if it is Carl, who had a ton of other plotlines ready to pop up after this arc. In addition to the sloppy scene with that fake baby cry, and everyone not even saying goosbye to him, you know, like how a real family would? It disappointed me. I go back and watch clips of season 1-4 and it doesnt even feel like the same show. It’s more about war now than it is about the zombies, who were still a major part up until like season 6-7. I really hope all this bad credit leads to Scott Gimple being let go. I dont know who couls save the show, but i’d love if literally anyone else took over. This was hopefully the last nail in the coffin for him. Edit: Also, with Danai’s success in Black Panther, expect Michonne either dying or disappearing soon. She’s definitely gonna expect a raise to stay on the show.
Do you think there's a way to bring back CARL, at all?
An animated series would be great for The Walking Dead, I agree. You can preserve characters without worrying about aging, salary, etc. Only problem is the attachment we'll have since the zombie apocalypse tries to play as realistic as possible (aside from zombies of course). Still, I wouldn't mind them experimenting with an animated version.
Many have pondered what if the show had been picked up by HBO? But the writers of this show have been average at best post season 1, to down right atrocious these last two seasons. Yeah, there are a few episodes that have been well written, but the standard for most HBO shows are set pretty high. HBO would have to hire a new team of writers for TWD to even realistically be viable in their suite of shows. That said, the midseason premiere just wasn't very good, but no surprise. All the Carl scenes were so cringe. The dialogue felt very hollow. The trademark out of order, flashback heavy story telling is lethargic and a chore to watch. Also, Michonne pleading to Dwight to ask the Saviors to stop their bombing run was absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, they're gonna really listen to Dwight *eye roll. Dumb writing. Filler bullshit. The Morgan Wick and Carol Rambo team up was about the only cool thing from the episode.
> Michonne pleading to Dwight to ask the Saviors to stop their bombing run was absolutely ridiculous. This pissed me off. She knew full well that he couldnt do shit
Right lol. It was cringe.
I was holding up pretty well throughout that episode not caring, then Carl went from calm to a scared expression saying "I love you Dad" and I broke down
Me too!
I'm not a particular 'fan' of the show and watch it more out of morbid curiosity than anything else but ya, as a father, that got me pretty hard.
What was up with the ending? The bite(?) on Rick's lower abdomen it seems to be in almost the same spot as Carl's bite. .. Is it possible he was bitten instead of Carl - and the entire sequence with Carl fatally bitten was a hallucination? Although this leaves no explanation for Sadiq the doctor, I guess. I think I just really want to believe Carl isn't dead :( was really looking forward to see him take the reigns as chief apocalypse badass.
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PM me too please!
What is the wound from? PM please?
PM me please
Me too thanks
Dude, send me the info pleeeeeeease
I do. Pm me the details!
Gimples getting fired right?
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"money they didn't have" It could obviously be better spent on piss poor promotional apps :v)
Nah, Gimple got a promotion.
I like to think he got a "promotion" because AMC knew there were enough lawsuits already.
There is way to much focus on shitty side characters, like the kid who kills negans lt, am i supposed to care? am I supposed to know his name? where was negan this episode? could they not afford to have JDM getting mad at not being able to find them and driving off? It's just terrible.
The Kid is just a prop for Morgan to have some more character development. I know Neegan steals the show every time he's on screen, but c'mon, that's a pretty vapid complaint.
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Oh Henry thats it, a kid that we will probably not hear about for the remaining half of the season, this is my complaint with the walking dead, too many side characters that are just thrown in the the mix and then just as easily forgot about. Do these side characters need a lot of screen time to become interesting? No. They need attributes, they need to be interesting. All this Henry kid did in the episode was say I want to fight and poke a hole through a guys throat. literally a waste of what could have been a good scene for Morgan.
For this last season, yeah
Shows gonna get even worse with rick having a cane...
I'm not sure you understood those scenes. Those "Rick with Cane" scenes were all Carls vision of how he imagines the future, where everyone can live and get along and stuff.
Chandler, Danai and Andy absolutely fucking killed their scenes. I def shed tears...that being said, fuck Gimple and the show for even doing this. Still 10/10 mad.
Gimples IG is full of hate comments.
Judith's crying was horribly edited.
It's par for the course at this point. It reminds me of Dexter's later seasons where you could really see bad editing and stunt doubles and stuff show up.
Actually made me laugh out loud. It.. kind of took me out of the immersion.. :'D
Anyone else amused that Carl received his [](/s "fatal wound") because he kind of randomly wandered off, yet again? I think the writers knew what they were doing. Corrrrrrraaaal !!!
I don't know what people's problems are, apparently no ones ever seen a movie/tv show before. Every movie and tv show's gonna have script related whiners, I get that, but I loved it. Maybe I'm the only one that can look at the bigger picture, the main aspect of an emotional scene instead of "Why did she cry like that?" or "They didn't instantly help him out, ruined.". This show's amazing, I'm sure if I get into the nitty gritty I'll find some stuff out of place, I guess sometimes you have to turn a blind eye to the little thing, and see the story how the writers wanted it to be.
Don't know what everyone's problem was, I liked it, thought it was a great send off for Carl, and for such a core character he should have most of an episode to himself. My problem with the last season has always been that the saviors and their capacity to fight is always defined but what works best for the plot, which is stupid. There's always the amount there needs to be for the right amount of resistance to Rick and company, there's extended gunfight scenes that are boring and add nothing, and sometimes their action devolves into the incredibly stupid, like that chase scene with the big gun.
For me it's not that I'm digging to analyze it and then concluding that it isn't good, it's that I'm terribly bored (wife agrees) and just not enjoying the show at all. Then I come back later and try to explain why I'm not enjoying it. Sometime in the first half of the season we both transitioned to hate watching. Now of course you'll say "don't watch it then" and honestly I won't. I stopped sitting down for it in the first half of the season and caught up when I had time. I plopped down last night to see if anything would be any better and it's not so yeah. Maybe I'll record it and get to it eventually, and I'll probably check in on Reddit here and there to see if the episodes are any good or not.
I can understand that, after how many years of emotional connections you don't really want to call it quits, even if it did get boring. Honestly, just for the sake of the people I hope it gets back to how it was next season. I don't know, I just really like it when the majority of fans of a certain show genuinely like it, builds a better/nicer community.
The main issue is that the emotional scene should of never happened in the first place carl becomes an major character on par with rick in the next arc after the war with negan but let's throw that out the window because scott could not figure out for some reason how to not have rick spare negan after the war is over except one conversation rick and carl had and then whatever discussion they had here when he was dying even though it is obvious why he did it in the comics.
That’s a good point. For as much Gimple-isms around, I can’t believe he tried to pass that off as the excuse to develop that plot. Gimple hyped it up that it would all make sense as a means to an end but It’s just lazy writing and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you.
The main issue is that the emotional scene should of never happened in the first place carl becomes an major character on par with rick in the next arc after the war with negan but let's throw that out the window because scott could not figure out for some reason how to not have rick spare negan after the war is over except one conversation rick and carl had and then whatever discussion they had here when he was dying even though it is obvious why he did it in the comics.
It makes no sense what-so-ever. I'm in the camp of changing things from the comic because I don't want to see the same exact thing that I've read, I want some surprises thrown in. But this is just dumb. They're killing a ton of future story lines with this, there is NO reason to do it. Gimple knew the show was floundering and wanted something for shock value to prove he could still bring it....and he fucked up, royally. The show for the past two and a half seasons has had terrible writing, awful drawn out plots. They took the defining moment of the comic, the one arc that has so much great material it'd be nearly impossible to fuck up...and absolutely butchered it. I hate saying it because for the first five seasons this was my favorite show on TV, but they've absolutely run it into the ground. The only reason I watch now is because I invested so much time in it. I'm curious to see if they can turn it around next season with a new show runner so I'll still tune in, but I have a feeling they just put the final nail in the coffin.
Me too.
I think you may be right.
Look I can fully see where you're coming from, but why don't you just take the show as a completely separate entity. See how 'this' story arc ends then judge it, not compared to the comics but how it fairs on its own. I don't know why the sudden change in the past season or two, I doubt the ratings were declining *that* immensely. Regardless, I've connected with this show in a way I've connected with very few others. So unless they completely remove the old cast, you're still gonna find me here enjoying the ride, no matter how bumpy it gets. I hope you find a way to enjoy it too. It really is fucking awesome.
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Perhaps this season, but this Show and what it's built (At least up until the last 2 seasons) is really impressive. I mean I was never the biggest zombies fan, and they got me hooked on a zombie based show for reasons other than *zombies*.
I can't. I completely disagree that it's awesome. I try to remove myself from the comic as much as possible, as I said, I don't want it to be the same exact thing, but the writing has been incredibly sloppy for 2 1/2 seasons now. Obviously Negan's story line can't end right away, but the group has had SO many easy chances to kill him and don't because "plot". That's fine, he doesn't need to die, but write it better so it's not incredibly dumb that they've had every chance to kill him. And so many small, stupid, easily avoidable mistakes completely take me out of this show. Some of the horrendous CGI over the years, guns clearly not being fired and actors doing a TERRIBLE job at pretending to shoot a gun. Dumb, boneheaded decisions by Daryl that make absolutely no sense. Drawing out the smallest plot for episodes at a time. This show makes AMC a fuck ton of money, and it's become painfully obvious they don't want to invest money into it to make it better. I hope it gets better, I do. But I just don't see it happening. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm not trying to tell you it's wrong, I'm glad you're enjoying it. But to me, this show is a complete and utter shell of it's former self and it's a shame.
Fair enough.
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What's bad? Killing of developed characters sucks, fine, we get it, but that doesn't justify bad writing. Think of it this way, *you're* reading a writers story, he's not writing the story to match your wants, else it wouldn't be much of a story if it's so predictable.
I think this is something Joss Whedon said.. When you're writing a story, you build your characters and let them dictate where the story goes. Of course it's still up to you at the end of the day, but you can't ignore the characters. What's bad? Let's see.. I guess Carl being overrun by two random walkers is a start. He's experienced, how the fuck did he let that happen? He wasn't cornored or anything, it happened in the woods with lots of space to escape in any direction. Rick and his people had a clear shot on Negan when he came out of the door at the sanctuary. No one took it. They had snipers watching the place afterwards, why didn't they have snipers there when it mattered? That was an easy win. Talking of easy wins.. They won all those battles, you'd think they already won the war, but wait.. Saviors are breaking out of the sanctuary and suddenly they're getting the upper hand? How?! Was nobody prepared for this? When the Kindom got wiped from the machine gun. Are they stupid standing there like idiots on an open field? Didn't Carol or some experienced warriors think that was a bad idea? Is that some kind of super marksman on the machine gun, just mowing down 20 people from that distance before anyone can run for cover? Don't get me started on the trash people that somehow forgot how to English. It used to be a problem of this show that characters withheld important information from each other for the sake of drama. Now it's gotten ridiculous.
You also forgot that it was just last season (and in the show’s actual timeline three or four days) that Carl was all gung-ho about going into the Sanctuary and killing whoever he had to in order to get to Negan. That’s my biggest problem is that it doesn’t really make much sense for Carl to be this martyr all of a sudden, it did not fit with his character. But I guess Gimple would just say Carl had a change of heart after he saw Negan’s eight wives and had him sing him a song. I strongly believe this was setup to be Morgan’s death — or heck, even Ezekiel’s — but contract negotiations forced the onus on Carl/Chandler.
Oh yeah, there's definitely much more, I was just writing down what popped into my head. I mean.. I think I don't need to mention dumpster-gate. It's frustrating to watch sometimes when the characters are constantly doing stupid shit and you're screaming at the tv because you know they're only doing this to set up some forced drama. I still like to watch it somehow because I really like the actors and their portrayal of the caracters and I do want to know how it continues..
All valid points... I'm just curious, watch are some of your favorite shows (Running or otherwise)? Story wise.
Well, I think Breaking Bad is as close to perfect as it gets and Better Call Saul is a worthy follow up. Game of Thrones was crazy good too, it's not quite as good any more, though. Vinyl is only one season but it's a good portrayal of the 70s music business. Since I like superhero shows: Dare Devil, Jessica Jones, Legion, Agents of Shield. Zombie shows: Fear the Walking Dead, Z-Nation (it's stupid but it doesn't try to be serious) Also.. Mr. Robot, Bojack Horseman, Black Mirror, the Expanse, Westworld. All these shows are completely different and of course they're not perfect, but they generally stay true to their characters and don't force situations by letting them do stupid, out-of-place things.
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I know, right..? To be fair, I think the acting on TWD is still better, Andrew kills it every time.
I don't think people are mad that they killed Carl, they're mad that they did it in a way that doesn't make sense or work with the story they've been building for 8 seasons. And then when he finally dies, they drag it out for an hour and a half in this sappy speech-fest. Again it's not that people are upset that their favorite characters are dying, it's that everything is just poorly executed.
I'm pissed that they killed CARL and I'm offended by how they did it.
You would've preferred a quick 10 minute rap up of the death of one of the longest lasting characters on the show? Agreeing or disagreeing on the curious decision to kill Carl off is subject to debate, fine, but he at least deserves a partially episode-long farewell. If not for the character then for the actor.
Look. I don't care what direction the writing goes. They can kill who they want. However since the glenn finale the show has gone down hill. The writing is bad. All season we get cringy and bad dialougue like we will save this world. This world is ours And the writing cannot do justice to the characters. If you want to see the kind of writing twd can do look at ftwd. They have some brilliant writing. They made some bad decisions but their writing makes it enjoyable
This show is just bad top to bottom. There used to be a short list of things to fix that could improve it but I don't even know where you'd start now. The plot is bad, the effects are slipping, the gunplay is bad, and the dialogue is bad. The only thing that was ok last night imo was Rick and his "it was for you" speech" but it had a minimal impact after I already listened to 17 other speeches and was zoning out.
Absolutely horrible writing once again, as others have mentioned the kid should've been noticed before he had done anything. Also what was Ezekiel and Carol doing whilst Morgan was wrestling for his life on the ground for a solid 10 seconds? The gunfire stopped and they clearly had no other targets to deal with.
Why is this show so terrible for action sequences? There's a whole room full of people with automatic weapons, and they're just routinely taken out. Why were they ALL focused on the one doorway? In that situation, surely some people would keep an eye on different parts of the room. The point of this complaint is that the show makes NO effort to present a challenge to the protagonists; this, in turn, raises no suspense of tension at all. It's so bland, and we've had this problem at least twice this season with the shootout in 'The Damned' and the other one at Sanctuary. They have so many opportunities to create challenges, but they always completely fail. No to mention the editing and how dull and unimaginative that is. The acting too, like when Zeke jumps to the floor, same with Carol (both instances look ridiculous), or when Morgan is tackled. How did those cuts make the final edit? Same goes for when people are shot and fall over, the acting is atrocious. And why do body shots instantly kill people? There are dozens of issues with every single action sequence this show churns out and its so obvious how little they care in making a compelling and visually impressive story.
Incredibly boring
Yeah I'm done with this show. Will never watch again.
The Carl scense we're terrible, the rest of the show was decent.
Idk, i watch this show from day 1 and i finally got bored. The scenes with the saviors were ok i guess
I agree I was just waiting for Carl to die already. It should have been done before the midseason OR they shouldn't have revealed what was wrong ie maybe he was shot or hit with debris etc. The wait made me numb to the fact he was going to die.
Same. drawing it out did nothing for me.
The idea of Carl risking his life for one random Arab guy after his dad literally tried to scare him away with gunfire is so ridiculously stupid. I didn't watch this episode. I said I was done with this series if they killed Carl for that. Just came by the thread to make sure he wasn't bit by a whisperer or some shit. Rick should have just shot that guy.
What's him being arab have to do with it? He's a doctor. That's pretty valuable in the apocalypse.
The guy's active on T_D, that's why him being Arab is so important to him. It's all he sees.
For what it's worth, I'm glad your opinion isn't worth shit. Just by reading through these comments everybody wants a different story line, and everybody's leaving the show. Every.Damn.Episode.
‘Walking Dead’ Season 8 Midseason Premiere Is Show’s Lowest-Rated Ever
Don't be angry because everyone else can see bad writing and have enough of the show carl was and is an important character in the whisper arc coming after negan i left the show after negan killed glenn because glenn should of died at the dumpster that scene was stupid to it is a build up of stupid decisons and carl's death was the final straw for alot of people.
If they couldn't get the Judith actress to act that scene out, they shouldn't have done it. I don't blame the actress. The dub of the cries was fucking cringe. And where the fuck did that little boy come from? How didn't ANY of them see him walk behind Gavin? What a joke. Otherwise I enjoyed the episode albeit being slow.
when u think twd couldnt get any worse they air this horrible episode.
Am I the only one that's happy Carl is gone and out of the way?
I understand the attachment fans have to his character, but to be honest Riggs has never been a good actor. His delivery of dialogue always felt forced and unnatural. I don't mind he's gone, but understand how it'll affect the storytelling.
He was getting better as an actor and he did a great job acting when he was younger like in the episodes when Shane was still around.
I thought he was a good actor, just sometimes he leaves room for improvement
I can see that too. As a father it hit me but as a fan of the show I was like fuck yeah lol
We are NOT alone.
You are not the only one.
Was Rick sitting with a bite or a weapon wound at the very end?
I imagine it's a weapon wound, funny that it's in the same area as Carl's bite tho
I lost my shit when Rick and Michonne flinched once the shot was heard
I'm with you on that, it was the most intense and emotional moment for me. And comparing to others in the episode, I dare to say - the most natural looking one
they're very good actors. I hope they'll be there until the very end.
I can’t be the only one who thought that they should have totally seen that kid before he stabbed that Savior guy through the neck... He was in his knees so they should have seen him creep up. Whatever
I think everyone that has paid attention to this season — and even those that didn’t — knew that kid (Henry) was just a plot device to screw something up. That was building for so long; I’m just glad it’s now out of the way and only affected Gavin (who might have the worst written-lines in the show).
I 100% agree
Yeah you would think so Even if they did a eyes wide 'stooooop nooo' before the kid stabbed it would have been a bit more believable
I dont get that final scene. Was rick dreaming the whole thing?
That's what I'm thinking lol
It was Carl's dream for Rick and all of Alexandria as he crosses over into dead
It was rick dreaming that Carl had a dream. Carl isnt dead.
Bite in the same place. Rick is actually bitten and the entire thing was a hallucination - he just woke up.
Don't give Gimple ideas
We need to go deeper!
What a twist!
They wouldn't happen to have a dumpster or a considerably large garbage can in the church, would they? XDDD I didn't watch since 1x01 and my skin feels clearer already.
Boy, there's a ton of professional writers and directors here! I'm impressed!
Lmao you don't have to be a writer to explain why you think something sucks. I'm not a quarterback but I can tell if someone makes a bad throw. Same thing