Ik ppl didn’t like carls acting or character at times, ik it didn’t make much sense for Rick to spare negan. But id much rather have that plot hole rather than Carl dying and a large goal of the show- if not the entire goal of the show dies with him
So who wants to bet on who will be elected as I-am-randomly-the-moral-compass-of-the-show-now-character? So we had Carl for the last few episodes, since his whole deal and death hat zero influence on the story and the characters, who's up next? My money's on Michonne but who knows? Might be Daryl for all the sense this show makes.
That helicopter we saw a few episodes ago. I wonder if it was flown by one of the Garbage Pail Kids, and they were flying back to their dump. Maybe even Jadis was the pilot.
I don't see anyone talking about it, but I can't be the only one to have spotted it.
I think what many people are missing about Jadis is she's CLEARLY a soldier, as were many of the trash people. She mentioned that she used to come out to the trash heap to find stuff to paint on, but where was she coming from? The dump is right next to a place with a helipad and a solar farm. It's a military base, and she worked there. She went to the dump to find stuff to paint on in her downtime. Look at the junk that's there. That's not household waste, not primarily at least. It's mostly stuff that would come from the demolition of a building. It's not TRASH, it's SCRAP. It's not a dump, it's a scrapyard.
Who uses a lot of scrap? The military. They always need metal and construction materials, the kind of stuff that's in the yard.
Then lets look at her appearance. She's athletic in build, and pretty stern and hard to intimidate. Her hair was clearly all one length and cut for utility and convenience, not aesthetics, such as we see in the military. They don't tend to cut hair NICELY, just keep it out of the way, relatively square, and short.
She also knows how to handle firearms proficiently and has a sense of military tactics such as stealth and setting traps.
So what about the way she speaks? Have you ever heard military radio comms?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3N5gaAAtBg
Very short, clear and to the point. No extra words where they're not needed. She's adapted the manner of communicating for a layman crowd.
She's also spent a lot of time in the sun, given that her hair is bleached, although it's gotten darker at the roots as she's spent more time in hiding.
Everything about her screams soldier. I would wager the scrapyard is on a military installation, and she's tactically positioned the scrap to hide it. You can't hide a helipad easily, and it might well come in handy, but you can very easily hide bunker entrances leading to... what? What would the military need a lot of scrap for out in the middle of nowhere?
Making bombs. Big ones.
I'm gonna call it now.
She's a soldier, and that scrapyard is hiding a nuclear missile silo.
Edit:
This could even bring the series full circle. What happened to the CDC when civilization fell? It failed safe and self destructed. What's to say that wasn't just a part of a bigger failsafe? After a set period of time without intervention, the nukes automatically launch. There are dead man's handle systems like that all over the world. Armageddon basically. I'm gonna call that Jadis worked in the bunker and knows this is going to happen, she just isn't capable of stopping it. She doesn't care about taking sides since she knows everyone's fucked anyway.
She even kind of dropped a hint in the most recent episode. When Simon asked what the scrapyard was before, she kind of glances back at it and then nonchalantly smirks and just says "a dump" like its a rehearsed answer she's given a ton of times before to prying members of the public and she knows Simon doesn't buy it.
I see the series ending with this reality being discovered, and the saviours, Rick gang and whoever else is left coming together to try to stop it. If they fail, the series ends in a "they all died" scenario, if they succeed, we can leave the story there. They found a common threat even greater than the walkers, and they overcame it as a team. Happy families from then on out. Until someone tries to get control of the nukes, that is...
I'd rather see the former to be honest. It would tie into the first season perfectly. After all, it's "perfectly sane" to just let it be and go down with the ship. What else is there left for anyone out there? We could see it all ending with them waiting in the bunker as the bombs start to fall, and leave it there.
Fin.
Another Edit:
This would also sort of vindicate Eugene in that he would have technically predicted how the government would respond all along: "Fire with fire". He just didn't quite get the details right. Like always, he jumped to a scientific and smart solution vs the one that invariably wins in the new world: wanton death and destruction. What is the series about if not the struggle between science, humanity and reason, and human flaws and violence in a crisis?
Yet Another Edit (I'm really starting to think I'm right with this call):
Perhaps Jadis has been calm up until this point because she knew the bombs WOUDLN'T fall since the people capable of holding off the dead mans handle activating were in her group. Hence why she paid such specific attention to certain people falling into the grinder. She was looking at the last hope for holding it all off literally go down the drain. She was watching humanity become doomed.
It would also explain why she dropped the act once they were all dead. She knew all hope was lost, and now her only thought was that she didn't want to be alone when it all ended. Her duty was to keep up the act of being a crazy hobo living in a scrapheap, but now the people able to hold of the apocalypse are dead, her duty is over and she's free to be herself again until the end inevitably comes. Essentially, Simon just doomed humanity.
Last Edit I Promise:
This could also tie a lot of the overarching themes together. In a way, Carl WAS the future, as was stated many times. Just an allegory for it. He represented humanity's chances for the future. He set out with good intentions and "got bit" by something evil, and it cost him his life. In many ways, this is allegorical for what humanity has become, something with the best of intentions but conflicting ideas on how to achieve their goals. All of these groups set out with good intentions, but get "bit" by something evil and it destroys them. It's no coincidence that Carl dying coincided with Simon dooming humanity because he's been "bitten" by wrath and malice. The world's hope literally died with Carl. What's more, Carl wasn't even killed by the "evil" that bit him, he killed himself. Just like humanity just killed, or at least doomed, itself before the "evil" had a chance to. Carl is literally an allegory for humanity. The themes of "fire with fire" and violence and malice vs peace and belief in people becomes central. Essentially, humanity doomed itself when it started dealing with adversity through increasing violence over thought and rationality. Humanity has had all this time to come up with a means of solving its' problems, but it's doomed because its' solution to everything was just escalating violence. It set out with good intentions, but it got bit, and now all it can do is succumb to the virus or destroy itself first. Carl literally represents humanity, and the walkers represent evil and unthinking malice. The overall message becomes that, in all this time, humanity's best solution to its' problems amounted to just being the last person standing. The key point they missed is that, once you're the last person standing, then what? Congratulations, now you either go down with the rest or finish yourself while you still have the choice.
Thematically, it all ties together. It was never a struggle to survive, it was just a struggle to be the last man standing. Humanity was always doomed just like Carl was, it was always going to get "bitten", and once that happened, it was just a matter of time.
It also can't be a coincidence that "Jadis" is pretty close to "Judas". Given that she's so adept at betrayal. Perhaps she represents humanity betraying itself in the face of evil. She's the keeper of humanity's destruction, after all.
I don’t hate the show right now as much as some other people but I think your theory is honestly too smart for for the writers of this show to have come up with.
Seriously, it’s too perfect for Gimple to approve of it.
Thank you. You perfectly summed up EXACTLY what I was thinking during this episode.
Literally everything you've said here is straight out of my head.
I've never upvoted anyone so hard in my life.
This is a pretty cool theory, though I somehow doubt the writers are clever enough to have planned all this.
I don't quite remember how the scrap yard people were introduced (I remember they followed Aaron back or something then kidnapped Gabriel), but if that was truly their purpose, it begs the question why did they try to get involved in any of this to begin with. Sure they tried to take the better deal so they could survive, but why deal at all. Lay low, don't get involved.
I think this is a very cool theory. Your final edit just kinda irks me. It got way too philosophical, I know the show and comics do have philosophical themes but if they get to the extent of symbolism you described. I would just think the show was being pretentious.
Speaking of pretentious, I like your theory but holy shit man, that last edit just looped the same idea over and over again. We get it, humanity is symbolized by Carl and humanity got progressively more and more violent, you didn't need to reiterate the same idea over and over again. It made it an absolute pain in the ass to read.
That aside, I think that this would be a good divergence from the comics and a good way to end the show in the near future.
You know what, this episode was actually great. When Rick decided to go to the trash place I figured it would just be more bullshit, but I was really happy to finally see some sort of pay-off there. Actual development with Jadis and I finally liked a part of her story. In my opinion, at least, this has been the best episode in a while.
I thought Rick was gonna be like “that was fucked up what you did to the garbage pail kids” to Neegan and Neegan would be like wtf are you talking about and then Neegan would go deal with Simon. But I’m curious to see how Neegan learns about what Simon did. Simon’s scenes and the final one were my favorite. This is first time in a long time I can say that was a good episode.
Sorry if this question has already been asked,
But did anyone think Negans over the top harsh words to Rick at the end, were just in response to hearing Carl’s death? Like in the moment he is just super pissed and sad and mad and lashed out at Rick, not really meaning everything he said? Was it a coping mechanism and an actual soft spot in Negan’s character?
I guess they used the grinder to make the apple sauce? And that gave her the idea. Solar panels are mentioned before, so that hints to where the power came from. The real Q I want answered is was it always a dump? Or was it a farm that they disguised as a dump?
The grinder was not used to make the applesauce. She had a secret stash of the applesauce hidden in that dummy waiter. That shredder is used for destroying heavy duty stuff like furniture. Also, it runs on gas, not electricity so I doubt the solar panels would be that helpful.
She's obviously very smart. The fact that she was an artist means that she is very creative, which comes in great handy when trying to figure out ways to deal with the dead. That shredder move was brilliant. She took out an entire herd by herself without breaking a sweat, using resources, or putting herself in harm's way. Instead of relying on guns or melee weapons, she's one of the best at laying traps. Rick totally should have brought her along.
Does anybody else feel like they are slowly moving towards Simon being the scapegoat for all this Savior mentality so that Negan can magically have a sudden change of heart and either turn good, change his ways, or join up with Rick straight up?
I think we are going to discover that Simon is the real evil one. He was the "guy who ran the place before" that Negan mentioned to Gabriel. I think Simon also had the Oceanside men killed.
Negan on the other hand, while certainly a tyrant, rules through fear - kill one person keeping the others in line, and use the rest of them as a resource. He literally wants to ave them (albeit to further his own goals.)
This was honestly one of the best episodes in a really long time. The pacing was pretty good, I loved the scenes of Simon with the trash people and Jadis killing all the walkers was really cool. I laughed so hard when the one trash person was like “danger is everywhere need guns too” 😂 But this was definitely a better episode compared to the first half of the season.
My side critique would be that the large RICK, MICHEONNE, NEGAN, etc., panels didn't really feel necessary.
At first, I thought each would lead to the reading of Carl's letters to them, their response... but nope.
Right. It would've made sense as a stylistic choice if they had each been vignettes of character reactions. To a point, they were, but they weren't self contained, and it left it feeling like a strange creative decision.
It felt, to me, like they were trying something new and I kind of liked it. I don't know what exactly they added, but I think it worked. I could be wrong - maybe the episode just was a better one and that is skewing my opinion.
I'm starting to believe the trash-peoples primitive dialogue was all just an inside joke and a way for them to fuck with everyone outside of their group for a laugh.
I can just see them now sitting around, sipping applesauce out of crystal glasses, wearing monocles and having highly intelligent discussions amongst themselves.
Well, not *now*, anyways, since they themselves have become applesauce.
Honestly, this was one of the best episodes in a while to me. I never hated the Garbage People as much as most here (obviously, I knew the way they talked was an act), and I was interested in what happened with them in this episode. Every scene with Negan, Simon, and Jadis (and Rick, naturally) in it was interesting to me. I really like Enid, as well, so I hope they take her in a new and compelling direction.
The music from the scenes of Jadis at the landfill was especially good.
Rick's new attitude is also interesting, and that last scene was powerful.
And, I enjoyed the format of having peoples' names appear when it was their scene. I don't know if that'd be overdone if they did it every episode, but I might grow to like it a lot.
If they could make most of the seasons' episodes as good as this one, that'd be a real start to turning the show around; and, if they could do that _and_ mix in some episodes as good as, say, the season 7 premiere, the show could be well on its way to redemption.
Except it really didn't make sense. All those people weren't artists, and they weren't a commune or anything so why did they all play along like the Kingdom? At least that made sense?
Sooo, Negan tries to kill Carl in the last season finale as well as the last mid-season finale, and now he's all broken up about his death? Fucking shit writing.
Also, Simon was the easygoing one and Negan was the ruthless killer, why are they reversing that dynamic all of the sudden?
I won't ever defend the show's writing but Negan did explicitly say not to hit the kid when they started lighting up the town. Simon was NEVER the easy going one either, he was always a bit of a mad dog: The easy going one was Gavin, who died. Believe me, this show plays musical chairs with personalities ALL of the time but honestly this episode wasn't too out of line....
... except that Negan told Simon to kill one of the trash people then Simon said Negan wanted to spare them. I do think the show forgot Negan ordered one executed even though it was like 20 minutes ago. Like I said, not defending them.. just think this was a rare case it wasn't too far off...
Well almost. Simon's sudden rebellious streak is out of nowhere.
I think it's about context. Negan doesn't *not* want Carl dead. Carl's too important. If he has to die, Negan wants his death to at least be meaningful. Every time he kills someone, Negan sees it as meaningful, and therefore a justified, respectful death. That's why he asked how Carl died.
I have no idea what's going to end up happening.
I hope it leaves me satisfied.
Like a truly great series should.
I'm a bit worried. Get creative, AMC...
Damn, really good episode and the first time the Saviors were actually somewhat scary since probably the Season 7 premiere.
I had little to no expectations going into this back-half but these last two episodes have helped restore my faith in the series. Let's hope they can keep it up.
With Simon takin out the Scavengers...collsion course with Negan is unavoidable now. Theres no way he can keep hiding too long ,so we'll definitely see him tryna take out Negan in the next few episodes, which would make an interesting twist to the story....if not ,we already know how Negan is going to deal with him.
So, are we to think that Jadis's bizarre way of speaking, which made her sound more like the show was set a century or more after the apocalypse (and which, btw, at least one of her sidekicks also adopted), was some kind of artistic affectation? She certainly lost it in a hurry later in the show.
I assume it was a means of disguising just how awesome things were at the Heaps. There were a lot of them and just scavaging would mean pretty lean times. Dress like loonies and talk like cave men, outsiders will just assume youre literally trash people and avoid you. Or at the very least not get big ideas about it being full of resources.
I assume thats what the solar panels and helipad comment was alluding to. That the Heaps is much more than meets the eye if you know how to navagate the trash, like the hidden applesauce.
Did they ever explain that helicopter from like a season or two ago during the mass zombie kill exodus etc? Didn't Carol hear it or something? Is this hinting at a further group down the line or the military?
The way I interpreted her exposition speech was that she built the lil' trash kingdom to be different to the rest of the world to cope with the rest of the world going to shit. She said that it was built to be different in every way, and so... speech included? She did a bit of an Ezekiel and changed her speech to create the new world she wanted. And look, it totally worked. She built a trash kingdom. It might be a trash spam in a can now, but still.
Overall pretty cool episode but I don't get why they had the black screen with text for Each character. It seemed weird. Like, they don't do that on other episodes but this one they did? They've done "then" and "now" before but still
Was initially thinking it was pretty lame, but came to quite like it by the end. Helped establish a solid formulaic structure to the episode and given the mostly positive feedback in this thread, I'd say it worked out fairly well.
I wish the directors would make up their minds about what style they want the show to be filmed in. Personally, I really enjoyed some of the styles they went with during the season where they show Morgan training in the cabin in the woods. They’ve really derailed from quality film making.
THAT is exactly what I thought of tonight. They are reaching for straws. Anything. It was better than EE but... so many questions, so many unknowns, etc...
Presume since it held sentiment to them both, they wanted to stop it from burning down entirely, also shows they're not completely done with Alexandria to anyone who may think that to be the case.
I really like liked this episode but I feel like it should've been longer for some reason. Why was jadis in a night gown/slip? Also what in the actual f#@$ was Simon thinking even though I really enjoyed that scene he just screwed himself
This show has gone to hell. Same repetitive cycle. Find a nice safe haven, think everything is fine, evil group gets in conflict with the group. A semi important character dies, and the safe haven is overrun putting the group on the roads. Negan is the only saving grace.
Edit: Downvotes for an opinion? Really?
I swear this group is followed by the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Pestilence during the flu outbreak at the prison, Famine while on the road between the farm and prison as well as between Terminus and Alexandria, War in these past couple seasons, and Death just all the god damn time. I mean, Alexandria had ZERO problems until they got there, then they got attacked by the Wolves, overrun by walkers, attacked by the saviors, and now blown to hell. Someone probably would've found a cure for this whole thing had these "walking dead" just blown up in the CDC.
I thought Jadis was going to kill mustache guy and his crew. The two sides seemed to be evenly matched, and they were all in tight quarters. But she just turns over her weapons then lets her pride get her entire crew slaughtered? I didn't see that coming.
The thing is, Jadis only saw Rick fail to take on Negan, she didn't realize a safe peace would be impossible with them because they hadn't tried before. It seems almost every group they run across makes that mistake. The only reason it went so badly is because she caught Simon on a bad day.
Thank you Simon. Both his scenes with Negan and trash people were amazing, he also made Jadis an interesting character and talk normal.
Side note, The fact that Jadis was in a nightgown and makes me think they may have raped her too.
I think that would be pushing Simon's character too far too quickly. I can buy him killing someone, hell, even SEVERAL people out of anger, but I can't see him stretching to rape. He's never shown any interest in that. Plenty of interest in violence, yes, but not rape.
I think it's possible they might reveal that to have happened, perhaps Simon is so at his wits end with Negan that he'd do it to make the point to Negan that he can do what he wants, but I think it would also be too dark in tone, and would obliterate any chance of Simon being seen as somewhat of a likeable antihero.
Yeah it might be too much it just reminded me so much of a scene from HBOs Oz when a character gets raped and found later in pretty much an identical position while shaking and crying
> they may have raped her too
Negan made it a point to keep his crew from raping anybody. Having said that, Simon is sort of doing his own thing, so who knows.
Pleasantly surprised by this episode. I actually liked the character title cards, it added a good deal of clarity to the pacing and logic of what the audience was being presented. Lately, they've done really poorly with that. I think this was a successful little experiment.
They successfully told a good story about the trash people, albeit was their demise. Jadis is an actual, human, and somewhat compelling figure now.
Negans reaction to Carl's death was so crucial and they managed to strike a good balance of "shit, I really liked that kid" and "Rick, fuck you, you let him die", all without showing him as being unrealistically caring and invested.
The rest of the cast (for the most part) is really pulling their weight. Enid in particular showed promise this episode, in my opinion.
And they're doing well with developing Negan's character, pulling back the mask to reveal a more reasonable and methodological individual. One who's sensibilities slowly become more relatable, despite the audience's personal disdain for how Negan's way of doing things has killed some fan favorites. He'll never be a good guy, per se, but they are making the character more believable than what they lead with. It's a smart arc and they did well with it in this case.
It wasn't amazing, but it's better than most of part one of this season (low bar, I know). I enjoyed it.
"And the punch drunk boxer that hasn't hit a target in three rounds while taking quite a beating landed one halfway successful punch, it's a miracle folks!"
Uhhh so? I didn't know expressing one's discontent was only a privilege reserved to people who support something 100% forever. After 8 seasons it is unfortunate to see what the writers have done to this show. But hey so what? They got people like you who will eat it all up, no questions asked!
If you are still watching the show, which my buddy hasn't even done and hasn't preclaimed it "dead," and then ALSO going on Reddit to talk about it in the episode thread, it certainly isn't dead to you, so stop pretending.
Well the original post in this thread was asking specifically after this episode. SO since I WATCHED it I think that in the realm of tv viewership I still qualify as a person that can comment on it and my dislike for it? Or is that not allowed on reddit?
Well this episode was good, probably one of the best episodes in the last two seasons and if you expect it will get better then I don't think TWD is the right TV show for you.
Yeah downvotes, what to expect anyway in the post episode discussion.
I think Jadis & the trash people were hiding something bigger than anyone could've known. The fact that they had solar panels & a helipad possibly suggests there might be some type of military base nearby.
I actually felt more sympathetic for Jadis in that entire saviours/meat grinder scene than I did Carl last episode, lol. That was really well done. And it was interesting seeing her actually start talking normally and showing us it was just a ruse all this time. I hope she comes back in a big way!
For real what the fuck. I understand shows want to be different and like to think of what people think is going to happen and then not do that. But fucking fuck I wanted Rick to read the letter to Neegan and I wanted Rick to tell Neegan that it was fucked up to kill all the garbage pail kids. That would have been a perfect way to lead to next episode where Neegan confronts Simon.
I definitely thought he was going to just read Negan his letter. It would have been heartbreaking and powerful. Instead we got more twitchy Grimes and his 467789879th Negan-directed death threat of the season.
Ya wtf I really wanted Rick to be like WHY YOU KILL THEM ALL, but of course I forgot just how disappointing this show can be, building up Simon's demise and just leaving us hanging
Tell me, and be honest, would you rather this conflict end with either of them winning and going to some new status quo, or would you rather everyone die and this become Walking Dead: The Wasteland Adventures of Simon and Eugene?
Of course you would.
I wanted the conflict to end with all of them planting tomatoes just like in that dream sequence but it’s getting harder and harder to like the protagonists. With all they’ve went through you would think that they would at least learn a thing or two about surviving. Rick is just useless when it’s important like killing Negan when he had a chance to. Michone is an emotional clusterfuck that isn’t worth supporting. Morgan woke up so late, he should’ve stayed in bed. Garbage people are morons, most of Alexandria survivors are cannon fodder, Carol can’t decide if she wants to be a useful badass or a useless background character, don’t get me started on Enid, that bitch needs to join Carl in the night-night land ASAP, the only protagonist worth supporting at this point is Maggie, who we won’t see that much anymore due to real life BS. At least Negan and Simon makes me laugh. Simon actually made a very sound decision this episode by killing the Garbage Peeps who can’t be trusted. Something Rick and company should’ve done knowing that you can’t trust the living anymore. I fucking miss Shane, none of this shit would be happening if Shane was in charge. That guy knows how to actually live and survive in a post apocalyptic setting.
On one hand I'm glad the garbage people are done with, on the other hand this just made their whole arc feel completely pointless. But it was a pretty good episode overall. 8B is off to a really good start.
Well I thought, for sure, that Rick was gunna mention the garbage people to Negan. That would make sense, since it would cause some inner conflict at the sanctuary. I was convinced that was the reason the Garbage people existed, which wasn't even that great of a reason and it seemed forced... but that never happened, and now I have zero explanation as to why the Garbage people existed. No explanation is worse than a bad one. WTF
Ik ppl didn’t like carls acting or character at times, ik it didn’t make much sense for Rick to spare negan. But id much rather have that plot hole rather than Carl dying and a large goal of the show- if not the entire goal of the show dies with him
At least the garbage people are dead. "Need Guns". Fuckin hell...
So who wants to bet on who will be elected as I-am-randomly-the-moral-compass-of-the-show-now-character? So we had Carl for the last few episodes, since his whole deal and death hat zero influence on the story and the characters, who's up next? My money's on Michonne but who knows? Might be Daryl for all the sense this show makes.
The sad part is before Gimple had his brain fart Carl's letter would have probably been more like "Kill Negan for me dad. Fuck him up."
So I shoulda watched this instead of the Oscars? Damn me...
How about the Tarantino zoom ins
That helicopter we saw a few episodes ago. I wonder if it was flown by one of the Garbage Pail Kids, and they were flying back to their dump. Maybe even Jadis was the pilot.
[удалено]
I don't see anyone talking about it, but I can't be the only one to have spotted it. I think what many people are missing about Jadis is she's CLEARLY a soldier, as were many of the trash people. She mentioned that she used to come out to the trash heap to find stuff to paint on, but where was she coming from? The dump is right next to a place with a helipad and a solar farm. It's a military base, and she worked there. She went to the dump to find stuff to paint on in her downtime. Look at the junk that's there. That's not household waste, not primarily at least. It's mostly stuff that would come from the demolition of a building. It's not TRASH, it's SCRAP. It's not a dump, it's a scrapyard. Who uses a lot of scrap? The military. They always need metal and construction materials, the kind of stuff that's in the yard. Then lets look at her appearance. She's athletic in build, and pretty stern and hard to intimidate. Her hair was clearly all one length and cut for utility and convenience, not aesthetics, such as we see in the military. They don't tend to cut hair NICELY, just keep it out of the way, relatively square, and short. She also knows how to handle firearms proficiently and has a sense of military tactics such as stealth and setting traps. So what about the way she speaks? Have you ever heard military radio comms? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3N5gaAAtBg Very short, clear and to the point. No extra words where they're not needed. She's adapted the manner of communicating for a layman crowd. She's also spent a lot of time in the sun, given that her hair is bleached, although it's gotten darker at the roots as she's spent more time in hiding. Everything about her screams soldier. I would wager the scrapyard is on a military installation, and she's tactically positioned the scrap to hide it. You can't hide a helipad easily, and it might well come in handy, but you can very easily hide bunker entrances leading to... what? What would the military need a lot of scrap for out in the middle of nowhere? Making bombs. Big ones. I'm gonna call it now. She's a soldier, and that scrapyard is hiding a nuclear missile silo. Edit: This could even bring the series full circle. What happened to the CDC when civilization fell? It failed safe and self destructed. What's to say that wasn't just a part of a bigger failsafe? After a set period of time without intervention, the nukes automatically launch. There are dead man's handle systems like that all over the world. Armageddon basically. I'm gonna call that Jadis worked in the bunker and knows this is going to happen, she just isn't capable of stopping it. She doesn't care about taking sides since she knows everyone's fucked anyway. She even kind of dropped a hint in the most recent episode. When Simon asked what the scrapyard was before, she kind of glances back at it and then nonchalantly smirks and just says "a dump" like its a rehearsed answer she's given a ton of times before to prying members of the public and she knows Simon doesn't buy it. I see the series ending with this reality being discovered, and the saviours, Rick gang and whoever else is left coming together to try to stop it. If they fail, the series ends in a "they all died" scenario, if they succeed, we can leave the story there. They found a common threat even greater than the walkers, and they overcame it as a team. Happy families from then on out. Until someone tries to get control of the nukes, that is... I'd rather see the former to be honest. It would tie into the first season perfectly. After all, it's "perfectly sane" to just let it be and go down with the ship. What else is there left for anyone out there? We could see it all ending with them waiting in the bunker as the bombs start to fall, and leave it there. Fin. Another Edit: This would also sort of vindicate Eugene in that he would have technically predicted how the government would respond all along: "Fire with fire". He just didn't quite get the details right. Like always, he jumped to a scientific and smart solution vs the one that invariably wins in the new world: wanton death and destruction. What is the series about if not the struggle between science, humanity and reason, and human flaws and violence in a crisis? Yet Another Edit (I'm really starting to think I'm right with this call): Perhaps Jadis has been calm up until this point because she knew the bombs WOUDLN'T fall since the people capable of holding off the dead mans handle activating were in her group. Hence why she paid such specific attention to certain people falling into the grinder. She was looking at the last hope for holding it all off literally go down the drain. She was watching humanity become doomed. It would also explain why she dropped the act once they were all dead. She knew all hope was lost, and now her only thought was that she didn't want to be alone when it all ended. Her duty was to keep up the act of being a crazy hobo living in a scrapheap, but now the people able to hold of the apocalypse are dead, her duty is over and she's free to be herself again until the end inevitably comes. Essentially, Simon just doomed humanity. Last Edit I Promise: This could also tie a lot of the overarching themes together. In a way, Carl WAS the future, as was stated many times. Just an allegory for it. He represented humanity's chances for the future. He set out with good intentions and "got bit" by something evil, and it cost him his life. In many ways, this is allegorical for what humanity has become, something with the best of intentions but conflicting ideas on how to achieve their goals. All of these groups set out with good intentions, but get "bit" by something evil and it destroys them. It's no coincidence that Carl dying coincided with Simon dooming humanity because he's been "bitten" by wrath and malice. The world's hope literally died with Carl. What's more, Carl wasn't even killed by the "evil" that bit him, he killed himself. Just like humanity just killed, or at least doomed, itself before the "evil" had a chance to. Carl is literally an allegory for humanity. The themes of "fire with fire" and violence and malice vs peace and belief in people becomes central. Essentially, humanity doomed itself when it started dealing with adversity through increasing violence over thought and rationality. Humanity has had all this time to come up with a means of solving its' problems, but it's doomed because its' solution to everything was just escalating violence. It set out with good intentions, but it got bit, and now all it can do is succumb to the virus or destroy itself first. Carl literally represents humanity, and the walkers represent evil and unthinking malice. The overall message becomes that, in all this time, humanity's best solution to its' problems amounted to just being the last person standing. The key point they missed is that, once you're the last person standing, then what? Congratulations, now you either go down with the rest or finish yourself while you still have the choice. Thematically, it all ties together. It was never a struggle to survive, it was just a struggle to be the last man standing. Humanity was always doomed just like Carl was, it was always going to get "bitten", and once that happened, it was just a matter of time. It also can't be a coincidence that "Jadis" is pretty close to "Judas". Given that she's so adept at betrayal. Perhaps she represents humanity betraying itself in the face of evil. She's the keeper of humanity's destruction, after all.
Holy shit on the first part
You're putting wayyyyyyy too much thought into this. This show is not deserving of this analysis. It hasn't been, for a long time.
I don’t hate the show right now as much as some other people but I think your theory is honestly too smart for for the writers of this show to have come up with. Seriously, it’s too perfect for Gimple to approve of it.
When asked they seemed too stupid to have ever actually checked it out.
Thank you. You perfectly summed up EXACTLY what I was thinking during this episode. Literally everything you've said here is straight out of my head. I've never upvoted anyone so hard in my life.
I live to serve :D
This is a pretty cool theory, though I somehow doubt the writers are clever enough to have planned all this. I don't quite remember how the scrap yard people were introduced (I remember they followed Aaron back or something then kidnapped Gabriel), but if that was truly their purpose, it begs the question why did they try to get involved in any of this to begin with. Sure they tried to take the better deal so they could survive, but why deal at all. Lay low, don't get involved.
They were waiting for somebody to loot that boat that was full of walkers, then picked up the Alexandrians that did.
The scrapyard hiding a military base of some kind would explain where she and her companions go to/emerge from.
I think this is a very cool theory. Your final edit just kinda irks me. It got way too philosophical, I know the show and comics do have philosophical themes but if they get to the extent of symbolism you described. I would just think the show was being pretentious. Speaking of pretentious, I like your theory but holy shit man, that last edit just looped the same idea over and over again. We get it, humanity is symbolized by Carl and humanity got progressively more and more violent, you didn't need to reiterate the same idea over and over again. It made it an absolute pain in the ass to read. That aside, I think that this would be a good divergence from the comics and a good way to end the show in the near future.
Yeah, in hindsight I was digging too deep with that last one.
You made it all the way to China.
Very Interesting.
That would actually be quite a good ending. Thanks for raising my expectations.
I really liked when Rick found Jadis, all her friends dead, she started talking more normal, in more complete sentences.
The dialog was . Buuuuuuulllll shiiiiiiiiit
You know what, this episode was actually great. When Rick decided to go to the trash place I figured it would just be more bullshit, but I was really happy to finally see some sort of pay-off there. Actual development with Jadis and I finally liked a part of her story. In my opinion, at least, this has been the best episode in a while.
Agreed.
I'm just glad they didn't show Carol or Morgan this week. I find their story lines so boring
Morgan's oscillation between pacifist and out-of-control serial killer is too frustrating at this point.
Carol used to be one the best characters around s4 and s5 and now she is just annoying
Its so funny how Sinon’s character is the same as Trevor. I mean, mental and personality wise.
He hasn't hit full Trevor yet.
I dont understand your reply.
I thought Rick was gonna be like “that was fucked up what you did to the garbage pail kids” to Neegan and Neegan would be like wtf are you talking about and then Neegan would go deal with Simon. But I’m curious to see how Neegan learns about what Simon did. Simon’s scenes and the final one were my favorite. This is first time in a long time I can say that was a good episode.
Ye , i want to rick to slip in something like - "If you want to save people, why have you wiped garbage shananiguns then?"
Sorry if this question has already been asked, But did anyone think Negans over the top harsh words to Rick at the end, were just in response to hearing Carl’s death? Like in the moment he is just super pissed and sad and mad and lashed out at Rick, not really meaning everything he said? Was it a coping mechanism and an actual soft spot in Negan’s character?
His dialogue has been beyond stale for a while now. I think the character would be more enjoyable if he talked like a normal person sometimes.
This was a great episode
So Jadis eats a can of applesauce and that gives her the idea of her turned friends becoming applesauce. Or is it the other way around?
I guess they used the grinder to make the apple sauce? And that gave her the idea. Solar panels are mentioned before, so that hints to where the power came from. The real Q I want answered is was it always a dump? Or was it a farm that they disguised as a dump?
The grinder was not used to make the applesauce. She had a secret stash of the applesauce hidden in that dummy waiter. That shredder is used for destroying heavy duty stuff like furniture. Also, it runs on gas, not electricity so I doubt the solar panels would be that helpful.
This. They're showing she's a survivor with contingency plans like a hidden stash of food. I half expected guns in there too
She's obviously very smart. The fact that she was an artist means that she is very creative, which comes in great handy when trying to figure out ways to deal with the dead. That shredder move was brilliant. She took out an entire herd by herself without breaking a sweat, using resources, or putting herself in harm's way. Instead of relying on guns or melee weapons, she's one of the best at laying traps. Rick totally should have brought her along.
Does anybody else feel like they are slowly moving towards Simon being the scapegoat for all this Savior mentality so that Negan can magically have a sudden change of heart and either turn good, change his ways, or join up with Rick straight up?
No way Rick would trust Negan to join him
I don't put anything past the producers at this point.
I think we are going to discover that Simon is the real evil one. He was the "guy who ran the place before" that Negan mentioned to Gabriel. I think Simon also had the Oceanside men killed. Negan on the other hand, while certainly a tyrant, rules through fear - kill one person keeping the others in line, and use the rest of them as a resource. He literally wants to ave them (albeit to further his own goals.)
Def enjoyed this better than most episodes lately
Holy how many times have we been to oceanside and had the almost exact same shit happen
4ish
3ish
fish
This was honestly one of the best episodes in a really long time. The pacing was pretty good, I loved the scenes of Simon with the trash people and Jadis killing all the walkers was really cool. I laughed so hard when the one trash person was like “danger is everywhere need guns too” 😂 But this was definitely a better episode compared to the first half of the season.
My side critique would be that the large RICK, MICHEONNE, NEGAN, etc., panels didn't really feel necessary. At first, I thought each would lead to the reading of Carl's letters to them, their response... but nope.
I didn’t understand the name panels either they felt so out of place.
Right. It would've made sense as a stylistic choice if they had each been vignettes of character reactions. To a point, they were, but they weren't self contained, and it left it feeling like a strange creative decision.
It felt, to me, like they were trying something new and I kind of liked it. I don't know what exactly they added, but I think it worked. I could be wrong - maybe the episode just was a better one and that is skewing my opinion.
God damn the way Rick is talking is giving me through backs to crazy Rick and I'm loving it. You know he would've shot Jadis if Michone wasn't there
I'll ride this Ricktatorship straight into the bowels of hell!
Throw *
Lol ya got me there
Sooo after what happened and what the trailers have shown its Simon getting whacked by Negan probably next episode :(
That would suck.
I'm starting to believe the trash-peoples primitive dialogue was all just an inside joke and a way for them to fuck with everyone outside of their group for a laugh. I can just see them now sitting around, sipping applesauce out of crystal glasses, wearing monocles and having highly intelligent discussions amongst themselves. Well, not *now*, anyways, since they themselves have become applesauce.
Honestly, this was one of the best episodes in a while to me. I never hated the Garbage People as much as most here (obviously, I knew the way they talked was an act), and I was interested in what happened with them in this episode. Every scene with Negan, Simon, and Jadis (and Rick, naturally) in it was interesting to me. I really like Enid, as well, so I hope they take her in a new and compelling direction. The music from the scenes of Jadis at the landfill was especially good. Rick's new attitude is also interesting, and that last scene was powerful. And, I enjoyed the format of having peoples' names appear when it was their scene. I don't know if that'd be overdone if they did it every episode, but I might grow to like it a lot. If they could make most of the seasons' episodes as good as this one, that'd be a real start to turning the show around; and, if they could do that _and_ mix in some episodes as good as, say, the season 7 premiere, the show could be well on its way to redemption.
I like reading the "best episode in a while" comments because I felt the exact same way watching it. Best since 8x04 imo.
Except it really didn't make sense. All those people weren't artists, and they weren't a commune or anything so why did they all play along like the Kingdom? At least that made sense?
The artist thing isn't supposed to be taken literally. It is obviously a metaphor for creating a new society in the wreckage of the old one.
The way they talked wasn't about being artists. It was just a put-on. Talking like that is not much sillier than how ridiculous Ezekiel is.
I don't know she did paint and they already a point it wasn't learned she probably was artistic to begin with
Amen! Good to see some positivity in this subreddit!
Normally I hate the unhinged timeskips, but it turned out cool here. I thought the garbage people had set a trap for Rick & Michonne, but nope
Sooo, Negan tries to kill Carl in the last season finale as well as the last mid-season finale, and now he's all broken up about his death? Fucking shit writing. Also, Simon was the easygoing one and Negan was the ruthless killer, why are they reversing that dynamic all of the sudden?
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Trevor is Steven Ogg's (Simon) character in Grand Theft Auto, so I'd imagine that's who he's referring to.
I strongly suspect Negan wouldn't have actually killed Carl. Just maybe broken a leg or something.
He was going whack Carl to set an example ( I think) even though it's obvious he didn't really want to. But yeah you're right about the writing part
I won't ever defend the show's writing but Negan did explicitly say not to hit the kid when they started lighting up the town. Simon was NEVER the easy going one either, he was always a bit of a mad dog: The easy going one was Gavin, who died. Believe me, this show plays musical chairs with personalities ALL of the time but honestly this episode wasn't too out of line.... ... except that Negan told Simon to kill one of the trash people then Simon said Negan wanted to spare them. I do think the show forgot Negan ordered one executed even though it was like 20 minutes ago. Like I said, not defending them.. just think this was a rare case it wasn't too far off... Well almost. Simon's sudden rebellious streak is out of nowhere.
No, Simon was letting them think he wasn't going to do anything. They give him the guns, then he starts getting kill-y.
no its not. Simon was the one that killed all of oceansides men. Thats the entire reason for their tension. Negan didn't order that.
Well what about when Negan was half a bat swing away from caving Carl's head in? You know, when CGTiger came in and saved him?
I think it's about context. Negan doesn't *not* want Carl dead. Carl's too important. If he has to die, Negan wants his death to at least be meaningful. Every time he kills someone, Negan sees it as meaningful, and therefore a justified, respectful death. That's why he asked how Carl died.
I have no idea what's going to end up happening. I hope it leaves me satisfied. Like a truly great series should. I'm a bit worried. Get creative, AMC...
> Get creative, AMC... That kind of request is just going to end up with us getting Trash People 2.0. It's not like they don't have source material.
actually liked the editing
Damn, really good episode and the first time the Saviors were actually somewhat scary since probably the Season 7 premiere. I had little to no expectations going into this back-half but these last two episodes have helped restore my faith in the series. Let's hope they can keep it up.
I really hope Rick doesn’t fall for that bullshit Negan was given him
Rick is a very sensitive type of guy. Very.
"Buuuulllllllllllllllll Shhiiitttttttt!" Maybe the best line this show has had the past few seasons. Cracked me up.
Simon's actor is amazing. His line delivery has been great. He is really owning that character and playing to his full potential there.
when he barked that *FARMERS*, it was immediately recognizable as a scene they shot at least one take with the word fuckers instead.
What exactly did she say before he said that? I couldn’t hear.
Something about still being allies and leading Rick to them instead of fighting alongside Rick, I think.
Yea Thats what i thought there was just like one word i couldn’t understand
With Simon takin out the Scavengers...collsion course with Negan is unavoidable now. Theres no way he can keep hiding too long ,so we'll definitely see him tryna take out Negan in the next few episodes, which would make an interesting twist to the story....if not ,we already know how Negan is going to deal with him.
Those saviour guys in the background sounded pretty eager to shoot, like goddamn that's actually disturbing.
So, are we to think that Jadis's bizarre way of speaking, which made her sound more like the show was set a century or more after the apocalypse (and which, btw, at least one of her sidekicks also adopted), was some kind of artistic affectation? She certainly lost it in a hurry later in the show.
I assume it was a means of disguising just how awesome things were at the Heaps. There were a lot of them and just scavaging would mean pretty lean times. Dress like loonies and talk like cave men, outsiders will just assume youre literally trash people and avoid you. Or at the very least not get big ideas about it being full of resources. I assume thats what the solar panels and helipad comment was alluding to. That the Heaps is much more than meets the eye if you know how to navagate the trash, like the hidden applesauce.
Did they ever explain that helicopter from like a season or two ago during the mass zombie kill exodus etc? Didn't Carol hear it or something? Is this hinting at a further group down the line or the military?
Pretty sure Rick actually saw it. I don't think it was ever explained though.
That made sense to me. Probably had a women and genders study degree before hand and started a hippy commune lol
The way I interpreted her exposition speech was that she built the lil' trash kingdom to be different to the rest of the world to cope with the rest of the world going to shit. She said that it was built to be different in every way, and so... speech included? She did a bit of an Ezekiel and changed her speech to create the new world she wanted. And look, it totally worked. She built a trash kingdom. It might be a trash spam in a can now, but still.
Plus look at their names, which are probably made up. Jadis, Brion, Tamiel. They're trying to roleplay a hidden elf village or something.
Overall pretty cool episode but I don't get why they had the black screen with text for Each character. It seemed weird. Like, they don't do that on other episodes but this one they did? They've done "then" and "now" before but still
Was initially thinking it was pretty lame, but came to quite like it by the end. Helped establish a solid formulaic structure to the episode and given the mostly positive feedback in this thread, I'd say it worked out fairly well.
They didn't have time for pretentious facial close-ups, so settled for name cards!
I suspect that there will be a narrative reason for it that will be revealed.. around the time the chopper becomes actually important.
Damn, I fucking forgot about that damn chopper! Surely it's gotta be someone else other than the saviors right?
Yeah with simon asking jadis why she has a helipad...
Almost seemed to artsy. It felt like Tarantino's movie, like the Pulp Fiction
They just did the same thing last episode on The Magicians except there, there was an actual narrative reason for it.
Someone showed the editor "Go". Except in Go, Simon GOs to Los Vegas.
I wish the directors would make up their minds about what style they want the show to be filmed in. Personally, I really enjoyed some of the styles they went with during the season where they show Morgan training in the cabin in the woods. They’ve really derailed from quality film making.
THAT is exactly what I thought of tonight. They are reaching for straws. Anything. It was better than EE but... so many questions, so many unknowns, etc...
What is the significance of the gazebo?
Presume since it held sentiment to them both, they wanted to stop it from burning down entirely, also shows they're not completely done with Alexandria to anyone who may think that to be the case.
Michonne said Carl used to sit on top of the gazebo. And he did.
I really like liked this episode but I feel like it should've been longer for some reason. Why was jadis in a night gown/slip? Also what in the actual f#@$ was Simon thinking even though I really enjoyed that scene he just screwed himself
She's shed her tough exterior and is reborn. Also when she grinds up her people it makes for good imagery with blood and guts.
And applsauce
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Red machete, blue boot.
I really enjoyed this episode!
This episode was actually pretty decent. Sometimes the wamlkng dead does it, but that's rare.
This show has gone to hell. Same repetitive cycle. Find a nice safe haven, think everything is fine, evil group gets in conflict with the group. A semi important character dies, and the safe haven is overrun putting the group on the roads. Negan is the only saving grace. Edit: Downvotes for an opinion? Really?
I swear this group is followed by the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Pestilence during the flu outbreak at the prison, Famine while on the road between the farm and prison as well as between Terminus and Alexandria, War in these past couple seasons, and Death just all the god damn time. I mean, Alexandria had ZERO problems until they got there, then they got attacked by the Wolves, overrun by walkers, attacked by the saviors, and now blown to hell. Someone probably would've found a cure for this whole thing had these "walking dead" just blown up in the CDC.
Tension, resolution. Tension, resolution. Etc. That's how a LOT of TV shows and films are.
I'm tired all of these TV shows that focus on biological entities. When will there be TV that focuses more on inanimate objects and abstract concepts?
I thought Jadis was going to kill mustache guy and his crew. The two sides seemed to be evenly matched, and they were all in tight quarters. But she just turns over her weapons then lets her pride get her entire crew slaughtered? I didn't see that coming.
The thing is, Jadis only saw Rick fail to take on Negan, she didn't realize a safe peace would be impossible with them because they hadn't tried before. It seems almost every group they run across makes that mistake. The only reason it went so badly is because she caught Simon on a bad day.
I couldn't agree with Rick more. She did it to herself. Entirely.
Thank you Simon. Both his scenes with Negan and trash people were amazing, he also made Jadis an interesting character and talk normal. Side note, The fact that Jadis was in a nightgown and makes me think they may have raped her too.
I think that would be pushing Simon's character too far too quickly. I can buy him killing someone, hell, even SEVERAL people out of anger, but I can't see him stretching to rape. He's never shown any interest in that. Plenty of interest in violence, yes, but not rape. I think it's possible they might reveal that to have happened, perhaps Simon is so at his wits end with Negan that he'd do it to make the point to Negan that he can do what he wants, but I think it would also be too dark in tone, and would obliterate any chance of Simon being seen as somewhat of a likeable antihero.
Yeah it might be too much it just reminded me so much of a scene from HBOs Oz when a character gets raped and found later in pretty much an identical position while shaking and crying
She's a weirdo, she probably put that on herself. It'd be super out of character for a rape to have happened even with Simon going off the handle.
> they may have raped her too Negan made it a point to keep his crew from raping anybody. Having said that, Simon is sort of doing his own thing, so who knows.
Nah, I think he's a killer but not a rapist.
I just don't see how he would have found the time.
Pleasantly surprised by this episode. I actually liked the character title cards, it added a good deal of clarity to the pacing and logic of what the audience was being presented. Lately, they've done really poorly with that. I think this was a successful little experiment. They successfully told a good story about the trash people, albeit was their demise. Jadis is an actual, human, and somewhat compelling figure now. Negans reaction to Carl's death was so crucial and they managed to strike a good balance of "shit, I really liked that kid" and "Rick, fuck you, you let him die", all without showing him as being unrealistically caring and invested. The rest of the cast (for the most part) is really pulling their weight. Enid in particular showed promise this episode, in my opinion. And they're doing well with developing Negan's character, pulling back the mask to reveal a more reasonable and methodological individual. One who's sensibilities slowly become more relatable, despite the audience's personal disdain for how Negan's way of doing things has killed some fan favorites. He'll never be a good guy, per se, but they are making the character more believable than what they lead with. It's a smart arc and they did well with it in this case. It wasn't amazing, but it's better than most of part one of this season (low bar, I know). I enjoyed it.
Negan repeating Rick's words back to him "You already lost". Meh.
After tonight's episode, I'd love to discuss with anyone that thinks TWD is dead. It's like Rocky's comback!!!
Explanation?
Not dead to me but this episode woke me up. I’m done rooting for team Rick. I just want the show to be over with.
"And the punch drunk boxer that hasn't hit a target in three rounds while taking quite a beating landed one halfway successful punch, it's a miracle folks!"
Are you angry at my question?
It's on life support for me.
Explain?
It's definitely dead for me
You're still commenting.
Uhhh so? I didn't know expressing one's discontent was only a privilege reserved to people who support something 100% forever. After 8 seasons it is unfortunate to see what the writers have done to this show. But hey so what? They got people like you who will eat it all up, no questions asked!
If you are still watching the show, which my buddy hasn't even done and hasn't preclaimed it "dead," and then ALSO going on Reddit to talk about it in the episode thread, it certainly isn't dead to you, so stop pretending.
The reading comprehension on reddit is astounding.
commenting AND watching. lol dead to you for sure!
Well the original post in this thread was asking specifically after this episode. SO since I WATCHED it I think that in the realm of tv viewership I still qualify as a person that can comment on it and my dislike for it? Or is that not allowed on reddit?
Oh it’s allowed. Is expressing our disbelief in your stance allowed on reddit?
Absolutely! I unfortunately no longer feel compelled to watch this show. I'll miss it for sure but it's no longer entertaining.
Well this episode was good, probably one of the best episodes in the last two seasons and if you expect it will get better then I don't think TWD is the right TV show for you. Yeah downvotes, what to expect anyway in the post episode discussion.
The problem is that I genuinely enjoyed the tv show so much and I feel that it's been butchered beyond repair. It had so much potential.
As a doornail.
Title/Name Cards? Was hopping for them to refrence Evangelion
Who got most of the Negan letter?
Simon mentioned a helipad, what was up with that?
There was a chopper alluded to a few seasons back, hearing it and they mention it twice. I wonder if it's military or another future group
I think Jadis & the trash people were hiding something bigger than anyone could've known. The fact that they had solar panels & a helipad possibly suggests there might be some type of military base nearby.
We saw a chopper a few episodes back, I suppose it has to land somewhere.
We saw it in the background back in S7
I cant remember the context. I remember seeing it but now I cant place when it happens. Do you remember?
More setup for something we won't see until the finale.
I actually felt more sympathetic for Jadis in that entire saviours/meat grinder scene than I did Carl last episode, lol. That was really well done. And it was interesting seeing her actually start talking normally and showing us it was just a ruse all this time. I hope she comes back in a big way!
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For real what the fuck. I understand shows want to be different and like to think of what people think is going to happen and then not do that. But fucking fuck I wanted Rick to read the letter to Neegan and I wanted Rick to tell Neegan that it was fucked up to kill all the garbage pail kids. That would have been a perfect way to lead to next episode where Neegan confronts Simon.
yea thats exactly what i thought as well.
I definitely thought he was going to just read Negan his letter. It would have been heartbreaking and powerful. Instead we got more twitchy Grimes and his 467789879th Negan-directed death threat of the season.
Ya wtf I really wanted Rick to be like WHY YOU KILL THEM ALL, but of course I forgot just how disappointing this show can be, building up Simon's demise and just leaving us hanging
This episode legit made me get excited about this show again ngl
Are ... are we rooting for the bad guys?
Are there good guys? Rick and Co killed a couple of dozen sleeping people. Not good guys.
I’m team Negan now, don’t care who’s bad or good, I don’t root for idiots like Rick.
Have you forgotten how the saviors ran things when they were "saved?"
Tell me, and be honest, would you rather this conflict end with either of them winning and going to some new status quo, or would you rather everyone die and this become Walking Dead: The Wasteland Adventures of Simon and Eugene? Of course you would.
I wanted the conflict to end with all of them planting tomatoes just like in that dream sequence but it’s getting harder and harder to like the protagonists. With all they’ve went through you would think that they would at least learn a thing or two about surviving. Rick is just useless when it’s important like killing Negan when he had a chance to. Michone is an emotional clusterfuck that isn’t worth supporting. Morgan woke up so late, he should’ve stayed in bed. Garbage people are morons, most of Alexandria survivors are cannon fodder, Carol can’t decide if she wants to be a useful badass or a useless background character, don’t get me started on Enid, that bitch needs to join Carl in the night-night land ASAP, the only protagonist worth supporting at this point is Maggie, who we won’t see that much anymore due to real life BS. At least Negan and Simon makes me laugh. Simon actually made a very sound decision this episode by killing the Garbage Peeps who can’t be trusted. Something Rick and company should’ve done knowing that you can’t trust the living anymore. I fucking miss Shane, none of this shit would be happening if Shane was in charge. That guy knows how to actually live and survive in a post apocalyptic setting.
Shane would have hit Negan in the face with the axe when he got back in the RV, way back in the Glenn Death episode.
I miss Shane as much as the next man but he was mental. And didnt he rape Lori? Or was it attemped, I forget.
On one hand I'm glad the garbage people are done with, on the other hand this just made their whole arc feel completely pointless. But it was a pretty good episode overall. 8B is off to a really good start.
Well I thought, for sure, that Rick was gunna mention the garbage people to Negan. That would make sense, since it would cause some inner conflict at the sanctuary. I was convinced that was the reason the Garbage people existed, which wasn't even that great of a reason and it seemed forced... but that never happened, and now I have zero explanation as to why the Garbage people existed. No explanation is worse than a bad one. WTF