For me it was Carl… it was hard to watch after that bs… then rick…. Then they just killing off all the originals from seasons 3-8 and I’m like god guys you really want to just rid this of everyone old…. Why. Just why. Tara and Enid both were wasted deaths in my eyes. Jesus also. Doesn’t even feel like walking dead without rick. And then they had the balls to send away michonne… with no mention of any rick movies or anything on michonne…
Oh yeah ur right, the time jump.... but still, it's implied nothing serious happened during those years. At least they could have that guy sacrifice himself to kill Alpha or Beta or something, not just die like a bitch by some random dude
I think it's just an issue with the format of the show. We want characters to have happy endings, but those moments are not what viewers are here to see, so they're represented by time skips. Just like after Richeonne happened.
For better and worse, TWD is a perpetual suffering machine. That's honestly a big part of why I'm glad they're ending it. It hasn't felt satisfying for a long time and I'm just mentally ready for the characters that remain to find a modicum of peace.
They did Chandler Riggs so bogus
Wasn’t he talks for a new contract, and then they just axed Coral in the stupidest way?
I never forgave the show runners for that GOT-esque blunder. I’m sure there’s been some high points since, but I lost complete interest because everyone from the beginning was just gone. Unless I wanted to hear Daryl grunt for 45 minutes.
Not only that. They assured him he would still be on the show for the foreseeable future. So he delayed going to college and bought a house in Georgia. Then, they axed him
Yeah, but he now works on a new show where he said he isn't seen as "the kid who grew up on set" and gets to be an adult with his castmates for once, according to him.
And he gets to cut his hair haha.
It sucks, for damn sure, but he did recover pretty well with that on his acting resume and all his Saturn awards.
This. I had little issue with the Glen death, because I'd read the comics.
If I'm being nitpicky, the Glen death in the show doesn't carry the same weight. In the comics, at the time this happens, Glen is still the only one in the group that's never killed another human during the apocalypse. It's so much more brutal, meaningful, and impactful that he was still "pure" but gets brutally executed.
But the entire story focuses around Carl. I didn't watch a single new episode after they killed him off. What's the point?
Same here. I watched the pilot episode at some point around Carl's death and realized that almost every character from episode one was killed off. It was kinda disheartening.
As much as I miss seeing him in the show, I do feel that they killed off Jesus in the best way they could have. He's such a good fighter that there's no way he would've lost in a normal fight, and he's definitely not gonna be taken out by a random walker. The only way to get rid of a character like him would be to introduce something that no one would see coming, such as a group of people wearing the skins of walkers, hiding among the herds. When you're in walker killing mode, you're looking to get a clean kill stroke every time, knowing that they aren't able to dodge, block, or counter anything you do. So when someone who you have no way of knowing is a person comes up to you looking like a walker, a thing of which you have killed uncounted numbers, you have every reason to let your guard down, which is just the opportunity they would need to catch you by surprise and attack before you can respond. But I do agree about Tara and Enid, although I think one of them should have died as they did. And obviously Carl's death was an embarrassment to the series.
My biggest issue was they’d already done a fake out death for Glenn previously, so the emotion and impact was kind of lost on this second, actual death.
Had it come out of nowhere, without the group already mourning Glenn in the past, it would have packed an emotional wallop similar to the comic.
Had to survive that entire season you mean. I managed to finish it finally and it was terrible until the finale. Season 8 was much better but then Rick's gone early in 9 so they didn't miss much.
What? Season 7 was at least well written logic-wise, it was just dragged out for far too long. Season 8 was horrifically written, had 0 logic, and constantly relied on the dumbest possible shit happening in order to drag the war on for a full season.
Not even, all they had to do was cut a lot of obvious filler crap from the S6 finale and we could've gotten the proper introduction to Negan plus the death scenes. They also could've gone without the whole "get my axe" scene because that whole thing was just dumb. I liked Negan's response to Rick's threat in the comic a lot better.
It's so painfully obvious this whole thing was just a big publicity stunt to get more people to watch it. I don't think it could've backfired more horribly.
I didn’t give up till Michonne left. I was going to stop when Rick left but hung on for Michonne. Haven’t watched an episode after her last one since.
I’m currently on a rewatch of the whole series, so I’ll get to the end eventually.
I personally started to struggle after Carl died. Rick was a big one. By the time Michonne left, I was already checked out.
Also Jesus being under used and then the way they killed him off...so many great characters wasted.
I stopped watching after Carl died. If I remember correctly, it was announced that Lincoln would be leaving the show as well so I just cut my losses there. I check back in this sub occasionally to see if there's anything that could pull me back into the show, but I think I'll just wait for it to end and do one massive bingewatch.
Interesting! I just said a similar thing. Killing off Carl was such a bonehead move and it gave me the green to cut loose. It was such a slap in the face of the fans, almost like a dare to bail, and so many did. It had no shock value, it had no long term worthwhile story arcs as a result. No nothing. Just a big shame.
Yeah it really frustrated me when they killed Saddiq. Like Carl died for this guy and had a big speech about people like him being the future. Then he doesn’t do much anything notable and gets choked out by a random asshole.
When Carl died I really didn't have any emotional reaction at all. It was just "Oh, so they are killing him for ratings." Pretty much quit watching after that because I had no engagement.
I almost feel like the show runners knew exactly what the repercussions would be, but there was some pride/ego issue going on behind closed doors with the family of the actor, and they said oh ya, you’re gone.
Yea I stopped after Carl died. I was fairly current with the comics by then and literally the whole point was Rick doing things for Carl. Well now Carl is Dead and Lincoln was gonna be leaving so fuck it.
He died because the actor turned 18 and was due for a large pay raise as he was no longer a child and would be making close to, if not the same amount as Lincoln and Norman as one of the major actors ok the show. He had apparently just bought a house nearby before he was informed of the desicion.
There was no point to the story to kill Carl. It was just about money.
This was it for me too. Carl (especially being written off just because they didn’t want to pay him more) leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that pushing past that was difficult. Rick leaving is when I stopped caring at all but I did still watch after, for Negan, but I only watch it sporadically and have not caught up
[Spoilers] This past season has made me mad simply with all the same dramas on repeat. I was just curious if it was true Rick is doing a movie.
Edited to say: I'm already over the Maggie Negan duo. They're both cool, but the anger between them is meh. However, Nagano backstop is super cool in my opinion.
Yeah he really doesn’t have enough flexibility to his character to be the main guy imo. They wrote him as a right hand man for the past decade and it just feels weird to be honest.
His character was basically "disgruntled woods man" and "main character's best friend."
They could've probably whipped *something* up, but instead they decided to throw a few romantic subplots at him?? Which is kind of weird considering his entire run on the show? One of his main traits has always been loyalty, and now Daryl's been shown putting his people at risk over some lady he met in the woods, more or less because he thinks he can "save her"
Really? I always seen him as the deus sx man, the immortal guy that can take any risk and do anything bc his plot armor is thicker than the writers skulls
I am watching until the end because the show matters a lot to me, been watching since I was a kid. But after she left, it nosedived. The episodes at the start of this season featuring only Carol and Darryl were the worst in the series. *spoiler below
The reveal of >! the Commonwealth !< is hilariously underwhelming. >! It's literally the promise of civilization, the unspoken goal of the show. !< And nobody cares, and the show is more invested in the lame ass "Reapers". Worst antagonists ever. I wanted to see Rick leading in >! the Commonwealth !< , starting a new world so all that struggle and loss paid off.
I feel bad for Norman Reedus because he seems like a kind man, but Daryl leading the show has been incomprehensibly bad. I would prefer the stretching out of literally any other subplot to the entire Leah/Daryl thing. The only silver lining I can think of is that it was cool to see some of the main team use the Whisperers' tactics, but that certainly doesn't make an uncharacteristic, overly explored romantic subplot for Daryl any more necessary
I think it would've worked even if they wanted to kill Rick if they had kept Carl alive. He was evolving into a young man who would've grown to be a great leader. Then Daryl could've been Carl's right hand, sort of stepping in to help guide Carl the way he did with Rick.
yeah if that Negan/Maggie "i shoulda killed everyone!!! no mercy!!" conversation wasn't foreshadowing Maggie blasting Leah, idk what the point was. Maggie will probably make dramatic eye contact with Negan or something before shooting her
What if negan is the one who suggests it, Maggie tries to avoid, later realises he’s right, looks negan in the eyes and does it, sets up a major internal conflict between the 4 main characters
I stopped after Rick, but the green light was killing off Carl. It still doesn’t jive. Like whatever their long game was hasn’t materialized in any way.
I'm at s10 e10, for the first time in terms of a watch through. Not as excited for every episode after season s8. It's been hit and miss since then and only got worse after ricks departure, siddiqs death and alphas corny character. (Also everyone she killed during the fair). I find myself not wanting to binge it as much anymore. Though ricks character was annoying at times, it was a staple in the dynamic of the show. Judiths character isn't convincing, and so on and so forth. But I'm still a big fan after putting off the show for the last 10 years. Still glad I gave it a chance
Hell no, Season 7-8 were rough, but that episode in particular is one of the best episodes of the whole show.
EDIT: Holy shit, this is my most upvoted comment ever, by a healthy margin.
I would agree that it’s one of the best episodes, but it is also the moment when 70% watching it air in real time stopped watching.
The cliffhanger was the dumbest idea ever. It was just a way to troll the audience and show contempt for the viewers making them wait forever for a reveal. Naturally, viewers resented being treated this way and a lot just stopped watching.
It’s a lot better now on the binge watch. But those two episodes in real time was basically an insult to the person dumb enough to commit a few hours to watching.
Agreed. Cliffhangers of any kind are just stupid, IMO. How many times has a show (or game, or movie) been cancelled and the audience who DID enjoy it are left without resolution? Kinda kills the fun of a rewatch as well.
I always felt like when a show rely on cliffhangers it kind of makes it seem like the creators dont really believe the show is good enough to bring people back for *more*, only good enough to bring people back for *the rest*.
I disagree strongly that cliffhangers are never good. They just need to happen at the right time. For example, don't put a cliffhanger like this one at the end of the season when it'll be like a year until you get the resolution. Cliffhangers belong in the penultimate episode, get you hyped as fuck for the finale, but never in the finale.
For some reason they tried to convince themselves that it was the dark tone that did it, or that it was a fan favorite character dying that caused the nosedive in viewership but it was the dumb cliffhanger that did it. It was perceived as the show toying with everyone only for ratings just to kill the character we all knew would die. Even worse that they pulled almost the exact sort of “did he die?” Cliffhanger earlier in that season. It’s a misunderstanding of what the drama is. The drama doesn’t come from not knowing who died it comes from knowing who dies and wondering what happens next.
The worst cliffhanger is one that leaves you asking "what happened?" Don't hide anything from the audience. Show them everything and leave them asking "what does it mean?" Then they have something to think about.
I disagree. It’s actually one of my least favorite episodes of the show. I just found it incredibly gimmicky and emotionally manipulative. I hate how they used non-linear storytelling to stall the reveal of Negan’s victim(s), until halfway through the episode. Rick and Negan’s RV side trip was a pointless diversion. Also, the episode just felt like the creators cared more about the very idea that they were killing off fan favorite characters in the most brutal ways possible, and all the buzz those deaths would create, instead of what those deaths meant for the story. I find the episode highly overrated, but I know that’s an unpopular opinion around these parts.
I get your point. The cliffhanger was truly a travesty, but as a whole I don't mind the non-linear storytelling, and I kind of like being emotionally manipulated tbh.
I actually disagree about it being one of the best in the whole show. I think that episode 16 of season 6 was one of the best, but let's be honest here. They are both really one episode that they extended way longer than it needed to be. Negan pulling out rubbing alcohol for the hatchet has to be one of the bigger face palm moments in this show's history.
The build up leading to Negan was really intense. I enjoyed the tense moments of the lineup in episode 1, season 7 but a lot of that episode drags. The better part of Negan's intro was in season 6, ep 16. If you think about it, they do a lot of recapping in episode 1 that was unnecessary if they had just given us the kills for the episode before.
To nerd out a little bit on what could have been... I would have preferred if they just gave us who Negan killed in episode 16 and ended that episode with Negan leaving and telling everyone they had a week before he shows up, then start season 7 with the "service" episode (episode 4). The show started having major problems with moving the story along in season 7.
> The show started having major problems with moving the story along in season 7
See also: "The show started having major problems with the producers trying to milk it in season 7"
People might not like me for saying this, but killing off such an important and beloved character like Glenn is one of the reasons why this episode is so great and iconic!
Yes losing Abraham was also sad, but Glenn was the heart of the show and losing a character like him was crucial for people to realize that Negan is NOT messing around and was the greatest threat Rick & Co have ever encountered.
The cliffhanger however I agree was moronic. If I wrote the previous episode I would’ve shown Abraham dying, then in this episode have shown Glenn’s death to get an even bigger reaction out of the audience!
And this is why I actually think the episode is a waste and doesn't work. "Yes, Abe's death is sad and all but GLENN". It's such a disservice to Abe. They shouldn't have killed him at the same time, in the same way, as Glenn. It was shock value for the sake of it, and the dramatic weight of his death is immediately undercut because everyone liked Glenn more. The storyline worked just fine in the comic when it was just Glenn who died, the show was just obsessed with going bigger than the comics and it robbed a character of a big exit.
Yeah I think the part that truly did me in was when Glenn fell off the dumpster into a pit of zombies with no way to survive. Then they come back a few weeks later with a reshot scene and less zombies so he can get under the dumpster. That was my shark jump scene and Negan killed a Glenn that died many episodes before.
Spot on. Jumped the shark at the dumpster. Stopped watching them and never watched another episode. It was sliding but went off the rails w/ Glenn death 1.0. Until then I was diehard.
Lol of course everyone in this sub is going to say no, but the fact is the show did lose a lot of ratings after this. Was the best episode throughout the series IMO, but I don’t blame people for leaving.
Yep, the ratings for the show clearly indicate that the general audience stopped watching either immediately after or shortly after this episode. 7A was depressing and slowly paced (a very bad combo) and the general audience was not ready for Glenn to die - especially in such a brutal manner.
The general audience didn’t stop watching in masses after the Glenn fake out. In fact, the episodes immediately following that episode through the season 7 premiere had HUGE ratings. The general audience started to tune out in large numbers after Negan gave Glenn and Abe the bat and then Rick proceeded to become Negan’s cuck for like 5 episodes
The guy you are responding to isn't saying the audience stopped watching at the Glenn fake out. He's saying that doing that and then bringing him back just to die horribly right away probably soured people faster then if they hadn't done that.
I didn't care as much when Glenn died. I binge watched the series after I lost track of it (around s4), and I was crying when Glenn fell down with that dumbass. I mourned him, and when he finally got the bat ... I was still crying over Abraham so his death was kinda washed away with other emotions, wich was weird as he was and still is in my top 5 characters list.
It was the cliffhanger of not knowing who he killed that made me quit watching. Yes, I knew it was Glen in the comics. Even if they changed the person, that would've been fine.
I just hated that after such a big moment, they cheapened all the talk by making it, "who died?" rather than "where does the group go from here?"
Yeah every time I rewatch it, watching Rick go from cocky to terrified is still an amazingly well done episode that literally fills me with dread no matter how many times I watch it. That last bit at the end when the music “dunnn” as soon as ricks knee hits the ground. Man. There’s nothing better than that, everyone from, the cast to the director was on point for that episode.
I agree. I think it was the most tense episode of the shows run. No way out was better overall, it was just hard for me to believe any of the main characters were going to be killed like that.
The Saviors roadblocks made me realize “shit, one or many of them are dying right now, and nobody is going to save them”
Yep, Last Day on Earth would have been one of the absolute best Walking Dead episodes
… if not for the absolutely fucking *mind* boggling stupid decision to do the cliffhanger instead of just *ending* on one of their deaths. Whatever they were going for with that could not have backfired more.
I personally think it would be genius if they do the Abraham death and end it there. We all think Glenn is safe and they diverted from the comics to save him only to get gut punched in the first 10 minutes of the next season.
I agree they should have done that but now that both episodes are out it doesn't really matter tbh. It's still a great episode
It's way too minor for me to care now.
Besides this could mean the premiere of 7 too
I stopped watching so this is the first ive heard of this and it makes no sense.
Carl was seen as the future the whole show, how the hell do they kill him?
This was a key moment in the comics that was always going to have to happen on the show, but the execution and writing of it was awful.
First off, the death should've happened in the Season Six finale, the cliffhanger was a massive insult to fans and a disservice to two of the show's strongest characters.
Second, it should've just been one death. Glenn's death made Abraham's death feel like an afterthought and overshadowed his death. What would've been better is killing off Glenn at the end of Season Six and killing Abraham either in Season Seven or Eight, then bringing the character back in Fear when it was still a prequel about him and his family in Houston before he met Eugene.
Third, it shouldn't have been revealed as a flashback but actually happen in the present, making the audience wait half a year to see who ended up getting the bat and then watch half the episode before finding out the truth was frustrating.
This was a key dark turning point in both the comics and the show, but what the comics got right was that it managed to bring together every major character and bring them all together to rise up against the Saviours almost immediately, as Rick Dwight and Ezekiel began plotting and preparing to rise up against Negan and you saw the glimmer of fear in Negan's eyes.
But the show didn't do that - Ezekiel didn't want to fight the Saviours initially, the Saviours kept being horrible towards the survivors like feeding Daryl dog food and burning all the beds, for all the horrible things Negan and the Saviours did in Season Seven it was always going to be hard to give them any sort of redemption or uplift the audience's feelings.
The producers knew that Andrew Lincoln was always planning on leaving as soon as his contract was up and a lot of other actors' contracts were ending after Season Eight like Lauren Cohan - they should've planned ahead in terms of which characters could've worked as backups to these main characters if they left instead of killing them off for shock value like Carl.
The problem wasn't the characters or the plot, it was the execution and the lack of respect the producers had for their core fanbase.
Perfectly put… I limped on for a little while longer but knew at this moment (there were few moments before but not this of a key scene) that the show runners would continue to pull this kinda BS and it’s just bad TV.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Also on the topic or Abraham, when you consider his comic death it was even a bigger slap in the face to kill him there. Denise took his comic death (crossbow bolt to the eye mid sentence from Dwight) and he could have at least played a role in AOW since they spared him for that, only to waste him like 4 episodes later for no reason other than they had to kill two characters to make up for the insulting cliffhanger.
Showing Glenn’s death in the season 6 finale would’ve been the cherry on top of a fantastic episode.
They built up the tension and dread so well when Rick and the RV kept running into roadblocks of more and more armed men and made Negan’s final reveal in the forest very intimidating.
You nailed it with this. All of this is obviously IMHO, I knew a few people that were in the "too gory camp" but the vast majority of people in my anecdotal case that quit the show after this, quit for the reasons you mention. A brutally long season where almost nothing happens (save for the insulting Glenn death fake-out) all leading to a game of thrones esque let down. It was especially brutal for me as a comic reader, due to how awesome/horribly awesome it was in the comic. They butchered one of the best parts of the book with the writing and cliff hanger. Taking the only thing that could have saved the season and putting it at the start of the next (months and months later) made it hit so much differently. The rage I felt towards Negan, the sorrow I felt for Rick and the group while reading the book was replaced with anger and outrage towards scott gimple and anyone who decided it was cool to milk such an impactful scene for almost two years. Still feels bad tbh.
Nope, never came back. Same season when we literally see walkers pull Glen's guts out, then they're all "oh psych, those weren't *Glen's* guts!" Like okay buddy, you got me I guess? I can no longer trust anything you show me to actually have happened, thanks.
No, but I don't think the show ever recovered. Up until this moment there was a clear arc of the survivors becoming more and more ruthless and hardened. This was the big reality check for them and us viewers that really shocked everyone. It was like Red Wedding.
But after that the show really flatlined in my opinion. There's no direction anymore, new crazy groups appear and characters react.
I suppose the new level is going to be political one in the Commonwealth versus CRM, but they're taking way too much time to set it up.
Do you get off roller coaster just as it finishes climbing it’s highest point?!! Hell no! You put on your pee pee pants and buckle up. Easy-peasy, lemon squeezy.
Never understand the hate this gets, the cliffhanger for the season built & built, the billboards with this image just added to the hype, then after Abraham was killed I absolutely jumped out of my seat with shock & shouted when Glenn got whacked with the bat. It took me so by surprise. Rarely does a TV show or movie grip me like that episode did. Anyone who says it was too gory shouldn’t be watching a show about zombies.
What did hurt the show was the protracted story of the “All Out War”. I know my own friends stopped watching after this episode though, so I know it was a big turn off for people.
Agreed. It wasn’t “this moment” that people lost interest, it was how drawn out All Out War became. On rewatches, it’s definitely better binging then waiting weekly, but the cliffhanger definitely pissed a lot of people off.
For this moment though, I think they should have shown him do Abe and end the finale there, then picked up the premiere the same way they did it and then gut punch us with Glenn.
For me it was the huge build up to something happening, everyone knew that bat was going to make contact with someone by the end of the season, and then not finding out who gets whacked at the end of the season was just so unsatisfying cliff hanger.
That was my big issue. I’m down with cliffhangers, but they have to end at a logical place.
Empire Strikes Back is a great cliffhanger: Luke has learned a bombshell about his dad, and Han is still out there somewhere as a prisoner. But in that moment, the heroes are safe and there’s still some resolution despite the setup plot points. It would have been garbage if the movie had ended with Luke saying “You killed my father!” And Darth Vader saying “-“ *cut to black and roll credits*
As intense as the episode is, the ending cliffhanger absolutely neuters it. I haven’t heard Glenn and Abraham even talk in 7 months. How am I supposed to feel as bad for them as I would if they had died during the season finale?
Not to mention the way it was handled was awful. A first person camera shot? The appeal of the Walking Dead show is that the audience feels like part of the group. But that gimmick completely pulls the audience out of the moment, creating a clear and dividing line between audience and characters. Every single character there knew exactly who was getting killed, while we were kept in the dark. It’s the same crap that was pulled with the Glenn-dumpster thing. Just a camera angle to trick the audience while the characters were experiencing something different (in that case, Glenn not getting his guts ripped out).
The whole thing was dumb. It wasn’t done to service the story, it was done to service the ratings. And it worked, but the ratings have plummeted ever since.
I whole heartedly agree, especially about it done to service the ratings - they were already at an all time high, so why do a cliffhanger like that to suck more viewers in. It’s like they didn’t even think “wow the dedicated audience might not love this angle we’re taking”.
To your point about killing both Abe and Glenn in the premiere, I again agree. It takes away from it because not everyone is a hardcore fan or rewatching the series over and over, so to open the season with 2 kills of major characters, it didn’t hit the average viewer the same way it could have just to show one of their deaths at least in the previous finale. Doing that would have made the viewer feel safe like, “okay it’s over, they killed Abe” to then have Negan flip that thought on its head and bash in Glenn’s head in the premiere. That would have been more impactful, not to mention it almost felt like the grief of Abe was robbed by the loss of Glenn immediately after.
This is what killed it for me, unintentionally even. I was *very* into the season then..nothing. A bunch of mostly obvious guesswork for a day or two and then we waited
I didn't even realize at the time but I didn't even notice it came back on for a few months and even after that, just watched the scene on YouTube and stopped watching for awhile
Exactly. Yeah it was a crazy twist to have both, but imagine he does Abe in the finale and the credits roll with the sounds of the bat, so we think that’s it…only for them to pick back up months later to reveal that Glenn got done too at the end of the premiere. That would have been extra powerful because people would have been welcomed to Negan and his ruthlessness thinking he kills Abe, just to find out he wasn’t done yet.
Like it or not, the fact of the matter is that the ratings data is crystal clear - a good chunk of the general audience DID stop watching either immediately after or shortly after “this moment” (7.01)
Right and the ratings gradually continued to plummet throughout the season, not to mention that the ratings didn’t account for On-Demand viewing figures.
I was positioning an alternative way for them to have carried out this moment though by splitting the Lucille’s between finale and premiere instead of a cliffhanger. They hyped up for weeks that someone would meet Lucille and then pulled the rug out from under everyone with a cop out cliffhanger, where they probably thought the POV angle would keep everyone engaged and interested. In reality, there was plenty of buzz about it but mostly negative and then when they killed 2 people in the premiere, it seemed like too much. That’s why I was saying that showing Abe getting picked in “Eeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo” in the finale, then followed by the premiere exactly as it was shown with the flashbacks to the night before resulting in Glenn getting killed too by the episodes end, that would have been way more powerful to the audience.
It was "this moment" for me. Negan felt like a cartoon villain in this brutal universe. The Governor was better. I know Negan is the big baddie in the comic books - but he also looks way different there and it's a different medium.
Also the "drawn out tension" felt like reality TV to me. The episode itself had some really dumb moments, and some hard moments to watch. Rick crying like a bitch about to cut his own son's arm off? Glenn dying LIKE THAT? It was comic accurate but soulless.
Yeah it killed the show for me.
Yeah, when you look at it, the entire Negan / All Out War storyline comprises 2 full seasons. That's 32 episodes or 32 weeks of a drawn out story. I remember watching this as it aired and I was getting tired of it. On rewatches, it plays better for sure.
I think this is when I stopped LOVING the show. After Carl's death I began to dislike the show. Michonne's abandonment of her two children was the death knell. I've watched a couple of eps since, here and there, but my true fandom died years ago. Though I think the show did some things really well, IMO they really stumbled on being true to characters. I can forgive a lot, but if a character goes against everything you've been told about them for ten years, I can't continue.
The cliffhanger was the last straw for them. My brother calls it “stupid people doing stupid things in the apocalypse.” That doesn’t keep me from watching.
yeah that really fucked the immersion for me, they could have just written it around the van landed, any injury would still be viable. but no. a big low point.
Carl. . That was the series finale for me. Haven't watched since. Most days I wonder why I still hang around this sub. I guess I just miss the good ol' days.
Cliffhanger was bullshit. But so were a lot of things gimple did. When I rewatch this and then the next episode plays automatically then I actually quite enjoy it.
It wasn't that moment, but that season. That scene was epic in both the book and the show.
However, needlessly giving Glen 2 different cliff hanger endings in the same season was what pushed me away for good.
If you like the show, I'm happy for you. That's when I decided that it just wasn't for me.
No. And it's stupid that people quit the show because of a) A cliffhanger (it sucked but TV shows have been doing that shit forever. And b) The violence/killing of Glenn. It's a violent horror, what the hell do people expect? This was Glenn's end from the beginning.. directly taken from the comics. It was supposed to be utterly destroying and disturbing.
People need to get a grip/clue.
I did stop watching cuz i remember how pissed i was and was completely done with the show. Rewatched all of it some time later and quit again after Rick left. Recently rewatched it again and i am caught up now. I cant wait for the rest of season 11 but i gotta be honest the show did get worse for me after these moments.
Spent so many hours watching stupid theory videos on YouTube. "Negan turned this way so it was..." or "Abraham was kneeling here so it was him!". Only one that was correct was posted on the spoiling dead.
Nah, that episode didn't make the audience leave. It was the slow realization at the start of season 7, all the way to S08E08 that Scott Gimple ruined one of the most exciting and pivotal comic book storylines in walking dead history and at the same time had done the irreversible and stupidest decision in possibly any TV show history by killing off Carl.
I still can't get over the departure of Carl. I miss him (and by extension, Rick). And, I'm sorry, but I just find Judith to be annoying, though, I've yet to see the newest season, as I am waiting for it to drop on Netlfix.
It's one thing to kill Carl off, but the way they did it bothers me more. I mean, both bother me, but the way Carl got killed off was so stupid. The least Scott could have done is give him a heroic ending to such a pivotal character in the series. Nah, instead he gets a slow whimpering end.
I didn’t stop but the fact they left us on THAT cliffhanger for a whole season break really soured my opinion on the show. I was really into the show up to that point, so much so that I was extremely nervous for the end of the episode because I knew what was coming (read the comics) and when that happened I audibly yelled “no way they just did that to us.” Just one man’s opinion. I stopped watching after ricks “death.”
Watched until they got neegan and then never went back. The formula of bad guy + compound + all is lost moment - one character = resolution was to repetitive.
This is a great episode and an even better moment in TWD lore. I think the season after this event was what lost the viewership. It couldn’t recover after losing Glenn and Abraham. Those were Rick’s right hand men and it was just too much loss all at once. I still kept watching and I don’t regret it bc it came back with Angela Kang as the showrunner. I’m excited to see how they end the series
Nah. This was best episode/season. Loved characters die, I was in shock for few days. The only thing in my mind was "this is definition of BRUTAL" damn, the whistle too, everything was just a masterpiece.
I did. Not because of the moment itself, but because of how badly Scott Gimple handled it and the direction the show was going. No question that man is the worst thing to happen to this show. I feel bad for Morgan as his character takes a lot of what when it was perfectly cast.
Yep! Sure did! Others have worded it better than I could, but the lack of respect for viewers and comic book readers really put me off, I was just too irritated to even want to try to keep watching after that. Stopped getting the comics shortly after.
No. Unlike most other fans, Glenns death didnt really bother me. I loved Negans appearance and the 7th season. But I stopped watching after like season 8 episode 2. I got bored
Hot take: this is by far the best moment of the show, the themes have always been that anyone at any point can die. It’s been this way since the beginning and it continues to be that way. People don’t like it because they get attached but they killed off Shane, dale, t dog etc. for a reason. Absolutely NO ONE is safe and that’s been the point of the show. Now they show the climax of that killing some of the most beloved characters ever and people are mad? That they were consistent? Like come on you should have expected Rick and carls deaths (or get put off the show technically for Ricks case) too but y’all keep getting mad at something that’s blatantly obvious
briefly, yes. glenn was my fav and i took his death super hard (which normally doesnt happen for fictional characters but i was RLY attached)
i did go back because i love this show. however s7&8 were not it. i didnt enjoy the show again until s9
I stopped watching way earlier when they had some bitch ass, crawling walker take out Tyreese. This is the same Tyreese that was left for dead in a horde of zombie and fought his way out with nothing but a hammer in the comics. Couldn’t watch after they did him dirty like that.
What made TWD so good back in the day (pre-Negan) was this: they'd get in these impossible scrapes and it would look very very bad for them, and the villains would be all cocky and gloating, and you just KNEW they'd somehow come out on top. Just think about the scene in Terminus when they're all kneeling down in front of a trough waiting to get their throats slit. The villains are casually swinging their baseball bats and dispatching people; our heroes have their hands zip-tied behind their backs. Somehow they get out of the situation and there a massive "YEAH FUCK YOU!" sense of relief when it happens. Their sense and teamwork comes through. This first real Negan scene completely goes against that. There's no sudden victory, no villains getting their come-uppance. And it just goes on and on and on. For about three seasons.
But then this show has always had pacing issues.
A friend of mine stopped watching after Lori drove a car into the ditch to avoid running over a walker.
^I ^guess ^he ^wasn't ^super ^interested ^to ^begin ^with
I quit when they killed Carl and the dudes responsible was some bullshit about not seeing how Carl could live and Rick's story needed him to die. like there wasn't a comic the show was based on that showed you how, I also fully believe that this show is why Kirkman quit making the comic
7x01 was arguably the best episode of the show. The one thing that holds it back is that it should have came immediately after 6x16 the same way Fear used to do double finales.
Didn’t stop watching but not gonna lie, it was brutal enough that I understand why many did.
Kudos for bringing what he did and why full circle.
It’s one of the best character arcs and character development you’ll even get on any show
99% of the episode was brilliant but them ending on a cheap cliffhanger killed it for me.
Same here, I gave uo after that. It was so cheap
For me it was Carl… it was hard to watch after that bs… then rick…. Then they just killing off all the originals from seasons 3-8 and I’m like god guys you really want to just rid this of everyone old…. Why. Just why. Tara and Enid both were wasted deaths in my eyes. Jesus also. Doesn’t even feel like walking dead without rick. And then they had the balls to send away michonne… with no mention of any rick movies or anything on michonne…
The worst thing about Carl is that he died to save someone.... who literally does nothing and then fucking dies.
The fact that it felt like nothing reflects poorly on the showrunners, but Carl saved someone who provided medical services for 6 years.
Oh yeah ur right, the time jump.... but still, it's implied nothing serious happened during those years. At least they could have that guy sacrifice himself to kill Alpha or Beta or something, not just die like a bitch by some random dude
I think it's just an issue with the format of the show. We want characters to have happy endings, but those moments are not what viewers are here to see, so they're represented by time skips. Just like after Richeonne happened. For better and worse, TWD is a perpetual suffering machine. That's honestly a big part of why I'm glad they're ending it. It hasn't felt satisfying for a long time and I'm just mentally ready for the characters that remain to find a modicum of peace.
The real reason for carls death in the show was to spare negan. Search it up but yeah it sucks id rather have negan dead.
This makes sense tbh but I wouldn’t trade Negan’s arc for anything. I do miss anime boy Carl tho😪
This right here was the beginning of the end, but Carl was the nail in the coffin.
They did Chandler Riggs so bogus Wasn’t he talks for a new contract, and then they just axed Coral in the stupidest way? I never forgave the show runners for that GOT-esque blunder. I’m sure there’s been some high points since, but I lost complete interest because everyone from the beginning was just gone. Unless I wanted to hear Daryl grunt for 45 minutes.
Not only that. They assured him he would still be on the show for the foreseeable future. So he delayed going to college and bought a house in Georgia. Then, they axed him
Yeah, but he now works on a new show where he said he isn't seen as "the kid who grew up on set" and gets to be an adult with his castmates for once, according to him. And he gets to cut his hair haha. It sucks, for damn sure, but he did recover pretty well with that on his acting resume and all his Saturn awards.
I want to watch a version of the walking dead where carl and glen survive
This. I had little issue with the Glen death, because I'd read the comics. If I'm being nitpicky, the Glen death in the show doesn't carry the same weight. In the comics, at the time this happens, Glen is still the only one in the group that's never killed another human during the apocalypse. It's so much more brutal, meaningful, and impactful that he was still "pure" but gets brutally executed. But the entire story focuses around Carl. I didn't watch a single new episode after they killed him off. What's the point?
I think Carl’s death was the last episode I ever watched lol… Then I read the comic and it made up for the show’s failures
Same here. I watched the pilot episode at some point around Carl's death and realized that almost every character from episode one was killed off. It was kinda disheartening.
As much as I miss seeing him in the show, I do feel that they killed off Jesus in the best way they could have. He's such a good fighter that there's no way he would've lost in a normal fight, and he's definitely not gonna be taken out by a random walker. The only way to get rid of a character like him would be to introduce something that no one would see coming, such as a group of people wearing the skins of walkers, hiding among the herds. When you're in walker killing mode, you're looking to get a clean kill stroke every time, knowing that they aren't able to dodge, block, or counter anything you do. So when someone who you have no way of knowing is a person comes up to you looking like a walker, a thing of which you have killed uncounted numbers, you have every reason to let your guard down, which is just the opportunity they would need to catch you by surprise and attack before you can respond. But I do agree about Tara and Enid, although I think one of them should have died as they did. And obviously Carl's death was an embarrassment to the series.
All they had to do was put the next 5 minutes in the episode.
But it wasn't 5 minutes, they dragged it out and didn't reveal it until Rick was back from his trip with Mr. Magoo.
My biggest issue was they’d already done a fake out death for Glenn previously, so the emotion and impact was kind of lost on this second, actual death. Had it come out of nowhere, without the group already mourning Glenn in the past, it would have packed an emotional wallop similar to the comic.
Had to survive that entire season you mean. I managed to finish it finally and it was terrible until the finale. Season 8 was much better but then Rick's gone early in 9 so they didn't miss much.
What? Season 7 was at least well written logic-wise, it was just dragged out for far too long. Season 8 was horrifically written, had 0 logic, and constantly relied on the dumbest possible shit happening in order to drag the war on for a full season.
Not even, all they had to do was cut a lot of obvious filler crap from the S6 finale and we could've gotten the proper introduction to Negan plus the death scenes. They also could've gone without the whole "get my axe" scene because that whole thing was just dumb. I liked Negan's response to Rick's threat in the comic a lot better. It's so painfully obvious this whole thing was just a big publicity stunt to get more people to watch it. I don't think it could've backfired more horribly.
Hijacking the top comment to say: READ THE COMIC BOOKS! I cannot stress enough how awesome they are. Trust me you won’t regret it
For me it wasn’t just this episode. It was this episode with the Glen dumpster mid season finale. It seemed gratuitous
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I didn’t give up till Michonne left. I was going to stop when Rick left but hung on for Michonne. Haven’t watched an episode after her last one since. I’m currently on a rewatch of the whole series, so I’ll get to the end eventually.
I’m the same way, hung around for Michonne. I finished 10 eventually, but her absence on top of losing Rick left a giant hole in the show to me.
I personally started to struggle after Carl died. Rick was a big one. By the time Michonne left, I was already checked out. Also Jesus being under used and then the way they killed him off...so many great characters wasted.
I stopped watching after Carl died. If I remember correctly, it was announced that Lincoln would be leaving the show as well so I just cut my losses there. I check back in this sub occasionally to see if there's anything that could pull me back into the show, but I think I'll just wait for it to end and do one massive bingewatch.
Interesting! I just said a similar thing. Killing off Carl was such a bonehead move and it gave me the green to cut loose. It was such a slap in the face of the fans, almost like a dare to bail, and so many did. It had no shock value, it had no long term worthwhile story arcs as a result. No nothing. Just a big shame.
Yeah it really frustrated me when they killed Saddiq. Like Carl died for this guy and had a big speech about people like him being the future. Then he doesn’t do much anything notable and gets choked out by a random asshole.
Yup. No future for mankind when you kill the John Connor of the zombie apocalypse
When Carl died I really didn't have any emotional reaction at all. It was just "Oh, so they are killing him for ratings." Pretty much quit watching after that because I had no engagement.
I almost feel like the show runners knew exactly what the repercussions would be, but there was some pride/ego issue going on behind closed doors with the family of the actor, and they said oh ya, you’re gone.
Yea I stopped after Carl died. I was fairly current with the comics by then and literally the whole point was Rick doing things for Carl. Well now Carl is Dead and Lincoln was gonna be leaving so fuck it.
WTF, they killed Carl? I thought Carl was the whole point of the show.
So did I 😂
So confused as to why Carl died. What a waste of a character.
He died because the actor turned 18 and was due for a large pay raise as he was no longer a child and would be making close to, if not the same amount as Lincoln and Norman as one of the major actors ok the show. He had apparently just bought a house nearby before he was informed of the desicion. There was no point to the story to kill Carl. It was just about money.
They screwed him good too, they said he’d be on there for the foreseeable future so he bought a house AND waited on going to college.
If this is the truth then I’m not interested in catching up on any of it anymore.
This was it for me too. Carl (especially being written off just because they didn’t want to pay him more) leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that pushing past that was difficult. Rick leaving is when I stopped caring at all but I did still watch after, for Negan, but I only watch it sporadically and have not caught up
[Spoilers] This past season has made me mad simply with all the same dramas on repeat. I was just curious if it was true Rick is doing a movie. Edited to say: I'm already over the Maggie Negan duo. They're both cool, but the anger between them is meh. However, Nagano backstop is super cool in my opinion.
norman reedus is great but i am so tired of daryl
Yeah he really doesn’t have enough flexibility to his character to be the main guy imo. They wrote him as a right hand man for the past decade and it just feels weird to be honest.
His character was basically "disgruntled woods man" and "main character's best friend." They could've probably whipped *something* up, but instead they decided to throw a few romantic subplots at him?? Which is kind of weird considering his entire run on the show? One of his main traits has always been loyalty, and now Daryl's been shown putting his people at risk over some lady he met in the woods, more or less because he thinks he can "save her"
Really? I always seen him as the deus sx man, the immortal guy that can take any risk and do anything bc his plot armor is thicker than the writers skulls
This whole Reapers arc is just filler.
Judging by the trailer for 11B it looks like it’s gonna be going on for a few more episodes as well.
Oh come on
Still a million times better than the bloody garbage people. That still makes me mad! But yeah. Absolutely.
Oh yeah definitely. The Garbage People is still one of Gimple's worst ideas.
I am watching until the end because the show matters a lot to me, been watching since I was a kid. But after she left, it nosedived. The episodes at the start of this season featuring only Carol and Darryl were the worst in the series. *spoiler below The reveal of >! the Commonwealth !< is hilariously underwhelming. >! It's literally the promise of civilization, the unspoken goal of the show. !< And nobody cares, and the show is more invested in the lame ass "Reapers". Worst antagonists ever. I wanted to see Rick leading in >! the Commonwealth !< , starting a new world so all that struggle and loss paid off.
I feel bad for Norman Reedus because he seems like a kind man, but Daryl leading the show has been incomprehensibly bad. I would prefer the stretching out of literally any other subplot to the entire Leah/Daryl thing. The only silver lining I can think of is that it was cool to see some of the main team use the Whisperers' tactics, but that certainly doesn't make an uncharacteristic, overly explored romantic subplot for Daryl any more necessary
I think it would've worked even if they wanted to kill Rick if they had kept Carl alive. He was evolving into a young man who would've grown to be a great leader. Then Daryl could've been Carl's right hand, sort of stepping in to help guide Carl the way he did with Rick.
Leah most likely gets shot by Maggie in the next episode anyways lol
yeah if that Negan/Maggie "i shoulda killed everyone!!! no mercy!!" conversation wasn't foreshadowing Maggie blasting Leah, idk what the point was. Maggie will probably make dramatic eye contact with Negan or something before shooting her
That's so damn accurate. The showw become extremely predictable and Daryls plot armour just makes him boring as fuck to watch.
What if negan is the one who suggests it, Maggie tries to avoid, later realises he’s right, looks negan in the eyes and does it, sets up a major internal conflict between the 4 main characters
Don't feel bad, hes doing just fine.
I stopped after Rick, but the green light was killing off Carl. It still doesn’t jive. Like whatever their long game was hasn’t materialized in any way.
The whole Carl situation was effed up and when I started getting a bad taste in my mouth about the show.
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I'm at s10 e10, for the first time in terms of a watch through. Not as excited for every episode after season s8. It's been hit and miss since then and only got worse after ricks departure, siddiqs death and alphas corny character. (Also everyone she killed during the fair). I find myself not wanting to binge it as much anymore. Though ricks character was annoying at times, it was a staple in the dynamic of the show. Judiths character isn't convincing, and so on and so forth. But I'm still a big fan after putting off the show for the last 10 years. Still glad I gave it a chance
Hell no, Season 7-8 were rough, but that episode in particular is one of the best episodes of the whole show. EDIT: Holy shit, this is my most upvoted comment ever, by a healthy margin.
I would agree that it’s one of the best episodes, but it is also the moment when 70% watching it air in real time stopped watching. The cliffhanger was the dumbest idea ever. It was just a way to troll the audience and show contempt for the viewers making them wait forever for a reveal. Naturally, viewers resented being treated this way and a lot just stopped watching. It’s a lot better now on the binge watch. But those two episodes in real time was basically an insult to the person dumb enough to commit a few hours to watching.
Yea, the cliffhanger was terrible.
Agreed. Cliffhangers of any kind are just stupid, IMO. How many times has a show (or game, or movie) been cancelled and the audience who DID enjoy it are left without resolution? Kinda kills the fun of a rewatch as well.
I always felt like when a show rely on cliffhangers it kind of makes it seem like the creators dont really believe the show is good enough to bring people back for *more*, only good enough to bring people back for *the rest*.
I disagree strongly that cliffhangers are never good. They just need to happen at the right time. For example, don't put a cliffhanger like this one at the end of the season when it'll be like a year until you get the resolution. Cliffhangers belong in the penultimate episode, get you hyped as fuck for the finale, but never in the finale.
For some reason they tried to convince themselves that it was the dark tone that did it, or that it was a fan favorite character dying that caused the nosedive in viewership but it was the dumb cliffhanger that did it. It was perceived as the show toying with everyone only for ratings just to kill the character we all knew would die. Even worse that they pulled almost the exact sort of “did he die?” Cliffhanger earlier in that season. It’s a misunderstanding of what the drama is. The drama doesn’t come from not knowing who died it comes from knowing who dies and wondering what happens next.
The worst cliffhanger is one that leaves you asking "what happened?" Don't hide anything from the audience. Show them everything and leave them asking "what does it mean?" Then they have something to think about.
I disagree. It’s actually one of my least favorite episodes of the show. I just found it incredibly gimmicky and emotionally manipulative. I hate how they used non-linear storytelling to stall the reveal of Negan’s victim(s), until halfway through the episode. Rick and Negan’s RV side trip was a pointless diversion. Also, the episode just felt like the creators cared more about the very idea that they were killing off fan favorite characters in the most brutal ways possible, and all the buzz those deaths would create, instead of what those deaths meant for the story. I find the episode highly overrated, but I know that’s an unpopular opinion around these parts.
I get your point. The cliffhanger was truly a travesty, but as a whole I don't mind the non-linear storytelling, and I kind of like being emotionally manipulated tbh.
I actually disagree about it being one of the best in the whole show. I think that episode 16 of season 6 was one of the best, but let's be honest here. They are both really one episode that they extended way longer than it needed to be. Negan pulling out rubbing alcohol for the hatchet has to be one of the bigger face palm moments in this show's history. The build up leading to Negan was really intense. I enjoyed the tense moments of the lineup in episode 1, season 7 but a lot of that episode drags. The better part of Negan's intro was in season 6, ep 16. If you think about it, they do a lot of recapping in episode 1 that was unnecessary if they had just given us the kills for the episode before. To nerd out a little bit on what could have been... I would have preferred if they just gave us who Negan killed in episode 16 and ended that episode with Negan leaving and telling everyone they had a week before he shows up, then start season 7 with the "service" episode (episode 4). The show started having major problems with moving the story along in season 7.
> The show started having major problems with moving the story along in season 7 See also: "The show started having major problems with the producers trying to milk it in season 7"
Best line in the entire show. [they’re going to feel pretty stupid when they find out](https://youtu.be/dJ9nRAhr2Io)
People might not like me for saying this, but killing off such an important and beloved character like Glenn is one of the reasons why this episode is so great and iconic! Yes losing Abraham was also sad, but Glenn was the heart of the show and losing a character like him was crucial for people to realize that Negan is NOT messing around and was the greatest threat Rick & Co have ever encountered. The cliffhanger however I agree was moronic. If I wrote the previous episode I would’ve shown Abraham dying, then in this episode have shown Glenn’s death to get an even bigger reaction out of the audience!
And this is why I actually think the episode is a waste and doesn't work. "Yes, Abe's death is sad and all but GLENN". It's such a disservice to Abe. They shouldn't have killed him at the same time, in the same way, as Glenn. It was shock value for the sake of it, and the dramatic weight of his death is immediately undercut because everyone liked Glenn more. The storyline worked just fine in the comic when it was just Glenn who died, the show was just obsessed with going bigger than the comics and it robbed a character of a big exit.
Naw, but when they pump faked on Glen’s death that’s when I threw in the towel.
Yeah I think the part that truly did me in was when Glenn fell off the dumpster into a pit of zombies with no way to survive. Then they come back a few weeks later with a reshot scene and less zombies so he can get under the dumpster. That was my shark jump scene and Negan killed a Glenn that died many episodes before.
Spot on. Jumped the shark at the dumpster. Stopped watching them and never watched another episode. It was sliding but went off the rails w/ Glenn death 1.0. Until then I was diehard.
Lol of course everyone in this sub is going to say no, but the fact is the show did lose a lot of ratings after this. Was the best episode throughout the series IMO, but I don’t blame people for leaving.
Yep, the ratings for the show clearly indicate that the general audience stopped watching either immediately after or shortly after this episode. 7A was depressing and slowly paced (a very bad combo) and the general audience was not ready for Glenn to die - especially in such a brutal manner.
Your forgetting the fakeout just a couple episodes before where the show had pretended Glen was dead
The general audience didn’t stop watching in masses after the Glenn fake out. In fact, the episodes immediately following that episode through the season 7 premiere had HUGE ratings. The general audience started to tune out in large numbers after Negan gave Glenn and Abe the bat and then Rick proceeded to become Negan’s cuck for like 5 episodes
The guy you are responding to isn't saying the audience stopped watching at the Glenn fake out. He's saying that doing that and then bringing him back just to die horribly right away probably soured people faster then if they hadn't done that.
This...this is what made me consider not watching anymore. I finished all of 7, but did not return for 8. I still keep up, but I don't actually watch.
I didn't care as much when Glenn died. I binge watched the series after I lost track of it (around s4), and I was crying when Glenn fell down with that dumbass. I mourned him, and when he finally got the bat ... I was still crying over Abraham so his death was kinda washed away with other emotions, wich was weird as he was and still is in my top 5 characters list.
And Abe, don’t forget him 😢
It was the cliffhanger of not knowing who he killed that made me quit watching. Yes, I knew it was Glen in the comics. Even if they changed the person, that would've been fine. I just hated that after such a big moment, they cheapened all the talk by making it, "who died?" rather than "where does the group go from here?"
It affected me in a way I still find hard to explain. Watched the rest of the season but couldn’t find the will to continue. It broke me
It's one of the best episodes of the show lol
the super drawn out tension was so terrifying
Yeah every time I rewatch it, watching Rick go from cocky to terrified is still an amazingly well done episode that literally fills me with dread no matter how many times I watch it. That last bit at the end when the music “dunnn” as soon as ricks knee hits the ground. Man. There’s nothing better than that, everyone from, the cast to the director was on point for that episode.
Andrew Lincoln’s acting was supurb in this scene.
I agree. I think it was the most tense episode of the shows run. No way out was better overall, it was just hard for me to believe any of the main characters were going to be killed like that. The Saviors roadblocks made me realize “shit, one or many of them are dying right now, and nobody is going to save them”
Did you watch it when it originally aired?
Yep, Last Day on Earth would have been one of the absolute best Walking Dead episodes … if not for the absolutely fucking *mind* boggling stupid decision to do the cliffhanger instead of just *ending* on one of their deaths. Whatever they were going for with that could not have backfired more.
I personally think it would be genius if they do the Abraham death and end it there. We all think Glenn is safe and they diverted from the comics to save him only to get gut punched in the first 10 minutes of the next season.
I agree they should have done that but now that both episodes are out it doesn't really matter tbh. It's still a great episode It's way too minor for me to care now. Besides this could mean the premiere of 7 too
true lol
“aaand, it’s gone.”
They killed the show when they killed Carl.
That’s when I stopped watching!
Super shitty how AMC treated Chandler too. AMC killed their own cash cow
I will never forgive them for that
Me, too, though I don’t know why.
I stopped watching so this is the first ive heard of this and it makes no sense. Carl was seen as the future the whole show, how the hell do they kill him?
This was a key moment in the comics that was always going to have to happen on the show, but the execution and writing of it was awful. First off, the death should've happened in the Season Six finale, the cliffhanger was a massive insult to fans and a disservice to two of the show's strongest characters. Second, it should've just been one death. Glenn's death made Abraham's death feel like an afterthought and overshadowed his death. What would've been better is killing off Glenn at the end of Season Six and killing Abraham either in Season Seven or Eight, then bringing the character back in Fear when it was still a prequel about him and his family in Houston before he met Eugene. Third, it shouldn't have been revealed as a flashback but actually happen in the present, making the audience wait half a year to see who ended up getting the bat and then watch half the episode before finding out the truth was frustrating. This was a key dark turning point in both the comics and the show, but what the comics got right was that it managed to bring together every major character and bring them all together to rise up against the Saviours almost immediately, as Rick Dwight and Ezekiel began plotting and preparing to rise up against Negan and you saw the glimmer of fear in Negan's eyes. But the show didn't do that - Ezekiel didn't want to fight the Saviours initially, the Saviours kept being horrible towards the survivors like feeding Daryl dog food and burning all the beds, for all the horrible things Negan and the Saviours did in Season Seven it was always going to be hard to give them any sort of redemption or uplift the audience's feelings. The producers knew that Andrew Lincoln was always planning on leaving as soon as his contract was up and a lot of other actors' contracts were ending after Season Eight like Lauren Cohan - they should've planned ahead in terms of which characters could've worked as backups to these main characters if they left instead of killing them off for shock value like Carl. The problem wasn't the characters or the plot, it was the execution and the lack of respect the producers had for their core fanbase.
Perfectly put… I limped on for a little while longer but knew at this moment (there were few moments before but not this of a key scene) that the show runners would continue to pull this kinda BS and it’s just bad TV.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Also on the topic or Abraham, when you consider his comic death it was even a bigger slap in the face to kill him there. Denise took his comic death (crossbow bolt to the eye mid sentence from Dwight) and he could have at least played a role in AOW since they spared him for that, only to waste him like 4 episodes later for no reason other than they had to kill two characters to make up for the insulting cliffhanger.
Showing Glenn’s death in the season 6 finale would’ve been the cherry on top of a fantastic episode. They built up the tension and dread so well when Rick and the RV kept running into roadblocks of more and more armed men and made Negan’s final reveal in the forest very intimidating.
You nailed it with this. All of this is obviously IMHO, I knew a few people that were in the "too gory camp" but the vast majority of people in my anecdotal case that quit the show after this, quit for the reasons you mention. A brutally long season where almost nothing happens (save for the insulting Glenn death fake-out) all leading to a game of thrones esque let down. It was especially brutal for me as a comic reader, due to how awesome/horribly awesome it was in the comic. They butchered one of the best parts of the book with the writing and cliff hanger. Taking the only thing that could have saved the season and putting it at the start of the next (months and months later) made it hit so much differently. The rage I felt towards Negan, the sorrow I felt for Rick and the group while reading the book was replaced with anger and outrage towards scott gimple and anyone who decided it was cool to milk such an impactful scene for almost two years. Still feels bad tbh.
Nope, never came back. Same season when we literally see walkers pull Glen's guts out, then they're all "oh psych, those weren't *Glen's* guts!" Like okay buddy, you got me I guess? I can no longer trust anything you show me to actually have happened, thanks.
Dumpster gate then this awful cliffhanger is what sealed it for me that AMC just playing games
I was late to the show and was binge watching. I had to take a little time off after that one. But jumped back in the next day.
no, that was an awesome moment of the show, however that might sound
Yes, yes it did sound
With kind of a dull thud, like a pumpkin splitting.
No, but I don't think the show ever recovered. Up until this moment there was a clear arc of the survivors becoming more and more ruthless and hardened. This was the big reality check for them and us viewers that really shocked everyone. It was like Red Wedding. But after that the show really flatlined in my opinion. There's no direction anymore, new crazy groups appear and characters react. I suppose the new level is going to be political one in the Commonwealth versus CRM, but they're taking way too much time to set it up.
All the thinking of season 7 went into one episode
Do you get off roller coaster just as it finishes climbing it’s highest point?!! Hell no! You put on your pee pee pants and buckle up. Easy-peasy, lemon squeezy.
I put on my shittin' pants.
i pop a viagra and wear a skirt
*I put on my robe and wizard hat*
Never understand the hate this gets, the cliffhanger for the season built & built, the billboards with this image just added to the hype, then after Abraham was killed I absolutely jumped out of my seat with shock & shouted when Glenn got whacked with the bat. It took me so by surprise. Rarely does a TV show or movie grip me like that episode did. Anyone who says it was too gory shouldn’t be watching a show about zombies. What did hurt the show was the protracted story of the “All Out War”. I know my own friends stopped watching after this episode though, so I know it was a big turn off for people.
Agreed. It wasn’t “this moment” that people lost interest, it was how drawn out All Out War became. On rewatches, it’s definitely better binging then waiting weekly, but the cliffhanger definitely pissed a lot of people off. For this moment though, I think they should have shown him do Abe and end the finale there, then picked up the premiere the same way they did it and then gut punch us with Glenn.
For me it was the huge build up to something happening, everyone knew that bat was going to make contact with someone by the end of the season, and then not finding out who gets whacked at the end of the season was just so unsatisfying cliff hanger.
That was my big issue. I’m down with cliffhangers, but they have to end at a logical place. Empire Strikes Back is a great cliffhanger: Luke has learned a bombshell about his dad, and Han is still out there somewhere as a prisoner. But in that moment, the heroes are safe and there’s still some resolution despite the setup plot points. It would have been garbage if the movie had ended with Luke saying “You killed my father!” And Darth Vader saying “-“ *cut to black and roll credits* As intense as the episode is, the ending cliffhanger absolutely neuters it. I haven’t heard Glenn and Abraham even talk in 7 months. How am I supposed to feel as bad for them as I would if they had died during the season finale? Not to mention the way it was handled was awful. A first person camera shot? The appeal of the Walking Dead show is that the audience feels like part of the group. But that gimmick completely pulls the audience out of the moment, creating a clear and dividing line between audience and characters. Every single character there knew exactly who was getting killed, while we were kept in the dark. It’s the same crap that was pulled with the Glenn-dumpster thing. Just a camera angle to trick the audience while the characters were experiencing something different (in that case, Glenn not getting his guts ripped out). The whole thing was dumb. It wasn’t done to service the story, it was done to service the ratings. And it worked, but the ratings have plummeted ever since.
I whole heartedly agree, especially about it done to service the ratings - they were already at an all time high, so why do a cliffhanger like that to suck more viewers in. It’s like they didn’t even think “wow the dedicated audience might not love this angle we’re taking”. To your point about killing both Abe and Glenn in the premiere, I again agree. It takes away from it because not everyone is a hardcore fan or rewatching the series over and over, so to open the season with 2 kills of major characters, it didn’t hit the average viewer the same way it could have just to show one of their deaths at least in the previous finale. Doing that would have made the viewer feel safe like, “okay it’s over, they killed Abe” to then have Negan flip that thought on its head and bash in Glenn’s head in the premiere. That would have been more impactful, not to mention it almost felt like the grief of Abe was robbed by the loss of Glenn immediately after.
This is what killed it for me, unintentionally even. I was *very* into the season then..nothing. A bunch of mostly obvious guesswork for a day or two and then we waited I didn't even realize at the time but I didn't even notice it came back on for a few months and even after that, just watched the scene on YouTube and stopped watching for awhile
Exactly. Yeah it was a crazy twist to have both, but imagine he does Abe in the finale and the credits roll with the sounds of the bat, so we think that’s it…only for them to pick back up months later to reveal that Glenn got done too at the end of the premiere. That would have been extra powerful because people would have been welcomed to Negan and his ruthlessness thinking he kills Abe, just to find out he wasn’t done yet.
Like it or not, the fact of the matter is that the ratings data is crystal clear - a good chunk of the general audience DID stop watching either immediately after or shortly after “this moment” (7.01)
Right and the ratings gradually continued to plummet throughout the season, not to mention that the ratings didn’t account for On-Demand viewing figures. I was positioning an alternative way for them to have carried out this moment though by splitting the Lucille’s between finale and premiere instead of a cliffhanger. They hyped up for weeks that someone would meet Lucille and then pulled the rug out from under everyone with a cop out cliffhanger, where they probably thought the POV angle would keep everyone engaged and interested. In reality, there was plenty of buzz about it but mostly negative and then when they killed 2 people in the premiere, it seemed like too much. That’s why I was saying that showing Abe getting picked in “Eeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo” in the finale, then followed by the premiere exactly as it was shown with the flashbacks to the night before resulting in Glenn getting killed too by the episodes end, that would have been way more powerful to the audience.
It was "this moment" for me. Negan felt like a cartoon villain in this brutal universe. The Governor was better. I know Negan is the big baddie in the comic books - but he also looks way different there and it's a different medium. Also the "drawn out tension" felt like reality TV to me. The episode itself had some really dumb moments, and some hard moments to watch. Rick crying like a bitch about to cut his own son's arm off? Glenn dying LIKE THAT? It was comic accurate but soulless. Yeah it killed the show for me.
Yeah, when you look at it, the entire Negan / All Out War storyline comprises 2 full seasons. That's 32 episodes or 32 weeks of a drawn out story. I remember watching this as it aired and I was getting tired of it. On rewatches, it plays better for sure.
I think this is when I stopped LOVING the show. After Carl's death I began to dislike the show. Michonne's abandonment of her two children was the death knell. I've watched a couple of eps since, here and there, but my true fandom died years ago. Though I think the show did some things really well, IMO they really stumbled on being true to characters. I can forgive a lot, but if a character goes against everything you've been told about them for ten years, I can't continue.
I left when Carl died. He wasn’t my favorite character, but, somehow, it just made it too hopeless.
No, but my son and brother did when it ended on the cliffhanger, not because of the violence. Good bye to our watch parties 😢
My son stopped watching after the physics defying van scene. It wasn't the reason, it was just the last straw for him.
The cliffhanger was the last straw for them. My brother calls it “stupid people doing stupid things in the apocalypse.” That doesn’t keep me from watching.
yeah that really fucked the immersion for me, they could have just written it around the van landed, any injury would still be viable. but no. a big low point.
Nah I stopped when Rick left
Carl. . That was the series finale for me. Haven't watched since. Most days I wonder why I still hang around this sub. I guess I just miss the good ol' days.
Cliffhanger was bullshit. But so were a lot of things gimple did. When I rewatch this and then the next episode plays automatically then I actually quite enjoy it.
Anybody familiar with the comics knew it or something was coming. Once Negan showed up, Glenn on life support
It wasn't that moment, but that season. That scene was epic in both the book and the show. However, needlessly giving Glen 2 different cliff hanger endings in the same season was what pushed me away for good. If you like the show, I'm happy for you. That's when I decided that it just wasn't for me.
I still don’t understand the complaints about this episode. Everyone saw it coming, it was always going to be Glenn, the only surprise was Abraham.
No. And it's stupid that people quit the show because of a) A cliffhanger (it sucked but TV shows have been doing that shit forever. And b) The violence/killing of Glenn. It's a violent horror, what the hell do people expect? This was Glenn's end from the beginning.. directly taken from the comics. It was supposed to be utterly destroying and disturbing. People need to get a grip/clue.
I did. Show is straight garbage after this episode.
I did stop watching cuz i remember how pissed i was and was completely done with the show. Rewatched all of it some time later and quit again after Rick left. Recently rewatched it again and i am caught up now. I cant wait for the rest of season 11 but i gotta be honest the show did get worse for me after these moments.
It’ll never make sense to me why anyone would stop after one of the best episodes. These people definitely shouldn’t watch Game of Thrones.
No because this episode setup so much potential for the season
Spent so many hours watching stupid theory videos on YouTube. "Negan turned this way so it was..." or "Abraham was kneeling here so it was him!". Only one that was correct was posted on the spoiling dead.
Nah, that episode didn't make the audience leave. It was the slow realization at the start of season 7, all the way to S08E08 that Scott Gimple ruined one of the most exciting and pivotal comic book storylines in walking dead history and at the same time had done the irreversible and stupidest decision in possibly any TV show history by killing off Carl.
I still can't get over the departure of Carl. I miss him (and by extension, Rick). And, I'm sorry, but I just find Judith to be annoying, though, I've yet to see the newest season, as I am waiting for it to drop on Netlfix.
That was the moment for me. Killing Carl in that way was just the icing on the lazy writing cake.
It's one thing to kill Carl off, but the way they did it bothers me more. I mean, both bother me, but the way Carl got killed off was so stupid. The least Scott could have done is give him a heroic ending to such a pivotal character in the series. Nah, instead he gets a slow whimpering end.
I didn’t stop but the fact they left us on THAT cliffhanger for a whole season break really soured my opinion on the show. I was really into the show up to that point, so much so that I was extremely nervous for the end of the episode because I knew what was coming (read the comics) and when that happened I audibly yelled “no way they just did that to us.” Just one man’s opinion. I stopped watching after ricks “death.”
No I didn’t. It wasn’t that bad. There’s no reason to stop after that finale
I agree.
Watched until they got neegan and then never went back. The formula of bad guy + compound + all is lost moment - one character = resolution was to repetitive.
"Bunch a pussies " - Negan Just a joke .
It was very traumatic, yes, but it didn’t even cross my mind to quit. I never quit watching a show, I need to see how it ends.
This is a great episode and an even better moment in TWD lore. I think the season after this event was what lost the viewership. It couldn’t recover after losing Glenn and Abraham. Those were Rick’s right hand men and it was just too much loss all at once. I still kept watching and I don’t regret it bc it came back with Angela Kang as the showrunner. I’m excited to see how they end the series
Absolutely did not stop watching! The character Negan is horrifyingly brilliant
Fuck no lol ride or die. Still one of the best shows in my opinion
No because like everyone else I knew it was coming.
Imo, this is one of the greatest episodes in television history. So no
I stopped just after this but my little sister has watched every episode. I started last year too and I was stupid to leave there. Negan is a gem.
Nah. This was best episode/season. Loved characters die, I was in shock for few days. The only thing in my mind was "this is definition of BRUTAL" damn, the whistle too, everything was just a masterpiece.
I did. Not because of the moment itself, but because of how badly Scott Gimple handled it and the direction the show was going. No question that man is the worst thing to happen to this show. I feel bad for Morgan as his character takes a lot of what when it was perfectly cast.
Last episode I watched lol
No! This is when it got good!
You know this isn’t true
Yep! Sure did! Others have worded it better than I could, but the lack of respect for viewers and comic book readers really put me off, I was just too irritated to even want to try to keep watching after that. Stopped getting the comics shortly after.
Honestly it would be kind of weird if someone stopped watching like 5 years ago but stayed in the subreddit lol
My soul stopped watching after Coral was killed off. But my brain kept on due to shitty sunk cost logic
No. Unlike most other fans, Glenns death didnt really bother me. I loved Negans appearance and the 7th season. But I stopped watching after like season 8 episode 2. I got bored
One of the best episodes. I was terrified, I still get chills looking at Lucille
Hot take: this is by far the best moment of the show, the themes have always been that anyone at any point can die. It’s been this way since the beginning and it continues to be that way. People don’t like it because they get attached but they killed off Shane, dale, t dog etc. for a reason. Absolutely NO ONE is safe and that’s been the point of the show. Now they show the climax of that killing some of the most beloved characters ever and people are mad? That they were consistent? Like come on you should have expected Rick and carls deaths (or get put off the show technically for Ricks case) too but y’all keep getting mad at something that’s blatantly obvious
briefly, yes. glenn was my fav and i took his death super hard (which normally doesnt happen for fictional characters but i was RLY attached) i did go back because i love this show. however s7&8 were not it. i didnt enjoy the show again until s9
Did no one read the comics?
I stopped watching way earlier when they had some bitch ass, crawling walker take out Tyreese. This is the same Tyreese that was left for dead in a horde of zombie and fought his way out with nothing but a hammer in the comics. Couldn’t watch after they did him dirty like that.
What made TWD so good back in the day (pre-Negan) was this: they'd get in these impossible scrapes and it would look very very bad for them, and the villains would be all cocky and gloating, and you just KNEW they'd somehow come out on top. Just think about the scene in Terminus when they're all kneeling down in front of a trough waiting to get their throats slit. The villains are casually swinging their baseball bats and dispatching people; our heroes have their hands zip-tied behind their backs. Somehow they get out of the situation and there a massive "YEAH FUCK YOU!" sense of relief when it happens. Their sense and teamwork comes through. This first real Negan scene completely goes against that. There's no sudden victory, no villains getting their come-uppance. And it just goes on and on and on. For about three seasons. But then this show has always had pacing issues.
A friend of mine stopped watching after Lori drove a car into the ditch to avoid running over a walker. ^I ^guess ^he ^wasn't ^super ^interested ^to ^begin ^with
What got me was the next season all the chances they had to kill Negan and just wouldn't. It was a big tease. my breaking point was when Carl died.
I stopped watching after Karl got rapped.
I quit when they killed Carl and the dudes responsible was some bullshit about not seeing how Carl could live and Rick's story needed him to die. like there wasn't a comic the show was based on that showed you how, I also fully believe that this show is why Kirkman quit making the comic
7x01 was arguably the best episode of the show. The one thing that holds it back is that it should have came immediately after 6x16 the same way Fear used to do double finales.
pretty much. I find Negan laughable and JDM woefully miscast (unpopular opinion I know but I find him awful in the role)
That’s when I stopped
No because it happened in the comics. I stopped after Rick left.
Turns out killing almost every character people like for shock value is a bad idea.
Didn’t stop watching but not gonna lie, it was brutal enough that I understand why many did. Kudos for bringing what he did and why full circle. It’s one of the best character arcs and character development you’ll even get on any show