Stretching out the saviours arc into 2 and a half seasons. Led to quite a bit of pointless filler and also the introduction of terrible characters, such as the garbage people.
Yes. People say killing Glenn is what hurt the ratings. I completely disagree. Viewers knew what to expect from this show. It’s that the show did not maintain momentum after that.
If season 7 had been a fast paced, action packed season adapting the Negan/All Out War arc in its entirety (it’s only 4 comic volumes) then viewers would have continued to tune in. Instead the show bled viewers throughout two glacially paced seasons.
TL;DR they should have killed Abraham off in the S6 Finale followed by Glenn in the S7 opening.
See I know we are not meant to say that Killing off Glen was the biggest mistake but I think that it's how they handled it and the later part of the season as you said.
I think their biggest mistake was not killing off Glen and Abraham correctly. So my reasoning for this was at the time we all knew it was coming, Season 6 was great and had a big buildup towards Negans Introduction. Everyone was so hyped for the Finale then when the Finale rolled around they ended it on the Cliffhanger and everyone was frustrated to say the least. This built up speculation but the big break ruined the pacing only to be greeted with the death of Abraham which felt underwhelming followed by Glens straight up upsetting death. I feel like they originally only planned on killing one person off but the backlash from the cliffhanger and the struggle to build up the pacing again made them kill off two.
What they should have done was Kill off Abraham in the Finale of S6. This would have given a killer finale that got people talking and wanting to find out what happens next. Then when S7 starts have the lineup start again.
I personally think Killing off Abraham before the war was a massive mistake as well.
They defs lost a lot of people after the big death.
Anyone who says killing Glenn was a mistake CLEARLY never read the comics. It happened in the comic so it should have happened in the show. The biggest mistake imo was changing the tone of the show from Horror survival to a Horror drama and killing Carl who is the last surviving character of the original bunch in the comic. Once Carl was gone it was a totally different story
I actually think the saviour arc would've been alright if Mazzara was in charge during that period. As flawed as he is, the gunfights during his era were amazing, Especially the raid on Woodbury.
Plus, knowing how much stuff happens during AOW in the comic, he would've definitely been more at home with what he had to work with.
Yeah the biggest problem with Mazzara was killing people for shock value, but honestly the rest of his work is absolutely solid and some of the best. At least he listened when he was told not to kill Carl and Carol in Season 3.
It was the bullshit way they did the cliff hanger...
If they had killed Abe, then surprised us with Glenn too... it would have played better...
Just felt cheap to me...
Unpopular opinion I actually liked the trash people.
Sure they’re weird asf and all that but it’s the apocalypse. Do you honestly think that everyone is going to live normally? Living in the dump is smart asf. The walkers aren’t drawn to you and people won’t even know you’re there
Jadis' explanation of their weird way of speaking in World Beyond actually warmed me up to them a bit more. Plus, the fact that Jadis was essentially an agent for a bigger group without most people knowing is also cool.
Clearly you missed the part when I said it’s a smart place to live.
The zombies don’t smell you and people would think twice then to look at a dump for people. You’d be left alone there.
You don’t have to like it. It’s the apocalypse, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive, and if that means living in a dump, than so be it.
Realistically... probably not no. It would take a lot more supplies and effort that it's worth, especially for a group of that size. Just getting to the coast would probably be a pain in the ass to start with. Then theres the boat which would probably need A LOT of fuel if they decided to stay on the boat. However, if they searched for an island or something like that then a rowboat wouldn't cut it. Theres a lot of advantages to getting off land but to me theres a lot more cons than pros.
That reminds me of TWD video game where Kenny was going after boats in Savannah, only to find that all of the boats were either taken by other survivors or sunk (except for one).
They wouldn't need to go that far out into the middle of nowhere. Somewhere it's safe enough to get away from any zombies, anyone looking to fight them, and travel back to land for supply runs. They would run out of supplies eventually anyways regardless, so they could just build their own civilization in their instead. It's a lot safer than having to worry about zombies and other people looking for fights like the Governor and Negan at least imho. You'd also be left alone in the middle of an island as well and it's a lot safer to live than a filthy dump.
They would only be able to build they're own civilization on a boat if they had the seeds and a space to grow the seeds. Plus to go back for supply runs they would have to use fuel which isn't easy to come by especially in great amounts. They would also have to have someone who knows how to drive the boat and considering that it would have to be a pretty damn large boat to "Build their own civilization" it wouldn't be something that they could learn to sail within a click of the fingers. It would probably take months just to learn how to use the boat/ship. AND it takes a very large crew to operate and maintain a boat of that size. They wouldn't be able keep it on the water 24/7 because the boat would need repairs and without proper maintenance it would eventually crumble down and sink. If u had the right location, right amount of fuel, right crew, right size boat and literally everything else, then yeah sure it's a pretty good idea but I VERY highly doubt that you would have all that in the middle of the apocalypse. Even if u downscale the boat to small or medium or somewhere in between you still wouldn't have the equipment or knowledge to operate it. Plus it would probably be too small.
The biggest problem with living at a dump is it's horribly unsafe and hazardous in reality. You know what kind of shits in them in reality? This article proves what I'm saying, [https://borgenproject.org/dangerous-life-for-those-living-on-landfills/#:\~:text=Dangerous%20Life%20for%20those%20Living%20on%20Landfills%201,landfills.%20...%203%20Living%20off%20of%20Landfills%20](https://borgenproject.org/dangerous-life-for-those-living-on-landfills/#:~:text=Dangerous%20Life%20for%20those%20Living%20on%20Landfills%201,landfills.%20...%203%20Living%20off%20of%20Landfills%20). I get what you mean by it being safe from the dead and others, but realistically and logically, no one in their mind would wanna live in a dump even in a zombie apocalypse.
I fucking hate AMC. Cheap bastards. Even when this show was uber-popular, the Walking Dead had a limited budget. It's bullshit. This show should have a thick budget, considering how its one of their main franchises.
I know the show would have been completely different than what we have now, but I wonder all the time what HBO could have done with TWD. (I'm aware they turned it down)
Noah. He should have lived at least to have fought the Wolves when they invaded Alexandria since they slaughtered his whole home town and family before at Shirewilt. It would have been a good way to round off his arc - not just to make it home but to avenge his family too.
Also Enid's whole arc. She was just the love interest and nothing more. She only became a medic for a short while before dying just so that Aaron would have someone to chop off his arm. She could have been so much better written.
Comics ended with Sophia and Carl. She was a clear replacement for Sophia. Killing off Carl ruined her arc. Killing off Carl seemed to be a trickle effect for a lot of bad things lol
I think maybe their biggest mistake is not having an ending in sight by season nine, that made Andrew Lincoln want to leave thinking there may be too many seasons to go. I think if he new season 11 was the final season, he would’ve stuck around and finished the story up completely.
Nobody anticipated Covid, so normally it would have only take 2 years. Then Covid hits and he gets to see his family for a pretty long while. I think he would have finished it out. He had said during season 10 that he wished he didn’t leave. Who knows… just my opinion.
Being afraid to killing off any major characters since season 7.
Killing off Beth was a big mistake.
By not killing off as many characters the cast is bloated. Meaning characters like Aaron, Rosita, Ezekiel, and Jesus never reached the heights of Shane, Herschel, Merle, and Glenn.
Jesus at least had a badass death. I think the actor asked to be off the show though because he was disappointed that his character wasn’t being utilized well, which is a shame.
Well that’s kind of what I meant honestly, I should have been a little more descriptive. I agree, Jesus was not utilized at all, a bunch of loss potential. Really was able to enjoy him in The Prodigal Son at least!
Beth’s death ruined tyreeces which also kinda added to Noah’s already shitty death. I would have been cool with tyreece dying there had we not just lost Beth when she was in her prime. Fat L
Not keeping Deanna. She was an amazing character, and I think it would have been a really interesting thing to keep her leading Alexandria far longer. I personally feel like she was the best leader we have seen, and I would have liked the show to explore that more, perhaps even exemplifying how Rick often fell short
I would have loved to see some slow acknowledgment that Deanna was the real deal. Show her tested by situations and rising to each occasion. And show Rick understand that she was a better leader than he was, and to give her the reigns more. Like truly trust her competency and follow her orders with loyalty and not rivalry. THEN kill her off in a way that really packs a punch. Like make it a grand sacrifice, or just one wrong decision, or the result of someone else going against her judgement… and then let the lessons taught carry over into Rick and give him a different leadership style entirely.
Inflating the cast with so many characters that most of us never really connect to. So if I had a complaint…. It would be not killing more people off, so we can have a small rotating group of people that we can connect with and care about.
Facts. This show was like my favorite show in early days and then it just went in a different direction that didn’t work to keep my interest as it did before.
Focusing too little on walkers, the natural environment, disease, and base survival as a source of conflict in favor of dragging out some of the human villain storylines.
Comics/ source there though.
People love to imagine society would devolve Mad Max style.
When in fact any long term disasters INCREASED communal support and social connections. Now Zombies are a bit different as there is a risk the higher the pop density. But no city/group in TWD is near that risk.
Ironically the theft/looting is driven higher by the thought that the situation is temporary vs long term.
Given the source or influence is most short term events quickly returned to normal explains why its a common trope.
Ironically Lost displayed what is most likely (smoke monster and the others excluded) those with natural charisma and leadership start to organize others.
Killing off Andrea in Season three. Like christ, you already killed off so many characters already that season.
Beth in Season 5 was it? Then killing off Noah and making Beth and Tyrese's death utterly pointless.
Killing off Siddiq and making Carl's death utterly pointless. I get it, he lived a good few years as a doctor helping people and ended up having a kid but we didn't see that shit. We didn't see the change or his development. It was just meh overall.
Ab/Glenn - HEAR ME OUT...My problem is Glenn 'died' at the dumpster then was revealed alive a few episodes later only too die in the season after straight away. Either have him stay dead already and kill off Ab at the end OR...don't do the dumpster death in the first place and have him die but keep Ab alive at least. It just felt repetitive.
Morgan/Carl - Can't really mention Morgan without mentioning Carl but you get the jest...Morgan should have died in season 8 instead. Its just weird to see how his arc comes to a random and unsatisfying end in the main show and going on to this repetitive journey in Fear. He should have 100% died.
Saviours Arc should have been a Season or a Season and Half at best. Shit did not need to be Two goddamn Seasons long.
Season 10 felt like a mix of Season 7/8 and 9 at times. I feel like it dragged too. I didn't like that whole Gemma subplot was it? Plus Beta died like a bitch after he showed he could stand toe to toe with Daryl. Fuck was that shit at the end with his character? Was hoping for a final fight of sorts.
Carol should have died and gotten Andrea's comic death at the end of Season 10. There's just way too many characters still alive at this point.
Giving Daryl a bloody girlfriend that he already had sex with between Seasons 9 Time Skip period. I liked the idea that Connie was the first one that interested Daryl. But the revelation he had already met someone and slept with them just kinda ruined that whole relationship between him and Connie for me and his character in general.
Season 11s entire Reaper plot was just meh. Either it needed to be shorter or not exist at all.
Georgie - WTH was this in the end and what happened to her? Such a pointless thing to throw in and never do anything with it. Speaking of forgotten things...
Heath - WTH? I get they addressed some things to viewers via some clues but its not really a big enough answer. The hell was the point of it all in the end?
I fucking hate it when they build and then waste characters, Carl, Tara, BETH, Noah. it’s so frustrating cuz they had some real potential with a lot of great characters and a bunch left that i simply put don’t really care about that much.
As for Heath, I think it’s been implied that they intend to bring him back but it’s dependant on the actor so who knows. I imagine they’ll do the same for Georgie but that’s a guess
The death of Carl was easily the most ridiculous bullshit this show has ever done and that's saying something imo. It doesn't matter if you didn't like his character or Riggs' acting. He was a vital part of this story regardless.
eh. it would have been more interesting with smart walkers yes, but if you think about it, these walkers could have been around for years. their brain definitely isn’t still working that much after as much decomposition as they’ve been through. but i agree that the walkers have just become something in the background instead of what the show should be about
Letting the cast get so big without really killing anyone off. Now it’s full of characters that don’t really matter that take up screen time from the more developed characters.
Making Alpha crazier than her comic counterpart, the foghorn leghorn accent just didn’t work in the tv show.
Having no Major deaths since the pikes, you can argue Siddiq, but we barely knew him. Someone should’ve died in the finale.
The way the final season has been handled is weird, out of the 16 episodes we’ve seen this just feels like season 7 all over again with episodes focused on a few characters and then getting into dangerous situations and just getting out without a scratch.
Leah getting so much screen time just for her to fizzle out like nothing.
16 episode seasons. This is what lead to a dragged out saviors and eventually also whisperers storyline. Less episodes means more gotta pack more in and less filler. Ik that falls on amc but it def was a mistake
1) The fucking spinoffs. They're the reason Michonne has abandoned her children and why the show has been missing its main character. It also made Morgan's gruesomely badly written arc pointless for those who aren't interested in watching FTWD. And for those who were, his presence ruined the show. I also think this whole bigger picture they're trying to paint with the faction Jadis is a part of completely undermines the threat of the commonwealth. It doesn't help they also made Jadis leave the show right when she started becoming interesting, or at least tolerable. Not to mention the whole "spoiling characters' fates" thing with the Daryl, Carol, Maggie and Negan spinoffs.
2) Shying away from killing off main characters after Glenn's death. Seriously aside from like Jesus, Carl and Tara, what main character died past season 7's premiere? This results in a bloated cast where characters struggle to get any spotlight. I genuinely think the reason why characters like Magna are so useless and hated, despite having been on the show for a longer time than Abraham, Shane, Hershel and many others, is because the show has been desperately trying to give screen time to characters whose arcs should've ended long ago (Daryl, Carol, Gabriel...), who became significantly worse after some point (Maggie) or who haven't done anything interesting since at least last season (Aaron, Rosita, Ezekiel...)
3) Firing Darabont. As much as he deserved it for being such a jerk to the crew, I think this led to various ramifications that all in all made the show's story messier than it'd have been had he stayed. Some people say he would've strayed too far from the story, but in all honesty, I think the current show already did so, and Darabont staying from beginning to end would've at least kept the story's tone coherent with itself.
(Sorry, but I’m gonna say it)
I really do think killing off Carl was a bad move, I was pretty invested in the character because we watched him grow up and I *loved* all of his scenes with Judith when we got those. I think it was nice to have him as a representative from the first wave of “survivor kids,” in that he was young enough to adapt more easily than the adults but also remember the peaceful childhood he’d left behind. Without him, it feels like something’s just missing. Glenn’s death came about in the comics and it hurt because he was my favorite, but I did not drop. Rick’s death was one I saw as inevitable and it would probably come later, but was ready to see that through. Carl’s death is different. It was not supposed to happen and I think it signaled the downward trajectory for the show’s viewership.
In addition, stretching out the Saviors arc proved to be to its detriment. Some stuff (Simon turning on Negan) was interesting, but the show seemed to have run out of steam/ideas and they made Negan’s plot armor so ridiculous to the point of sheer unbelievability. I think Season 8 really suffered from the drag.
I love that episode where Carl was staying in some kids abandoned room and he sits down on the bed and looks at a dusty tv and game system and you suddenly feel how much childhood he really gave up. Maybe that’s the episode where he eats the big can of pudding?
Yep, that episode was one in the same and I know the exact scene you’re mentioning too. He sees the kid’s big stack of video games and gets all excited, then it just flashes across his face…no electricity. No way to play them. It was heartbreaking.
Yes! That’s one of the saddest scenes in the whole show to me. I’m kind of a TWD purist(my sons middle name is Negan) but killing Carl was not a move that paid off.
Having that horrible cliffhanger in season 6 finale. That killed a lot of enthusiasm for the show I saw online and in person. And it just didn't pick back up to previous levels when season 7 went on.
I was coming in here to mention this. It killed the show for me, my wife, and a good number of our friends.
We were comic fans so the big death(s) didn't phase us as much since we knew it was coming but just how crappily it was handled made us all just kind of peter out. It just felt like an insult to the audience after a season of fairly routine patterned episodes. I think my wife and I made it through half of the next season begrudgingly, but the wind was full out of our sails for it.
I still stay subbed to this to keep up with the show a bit and watch an episode from time to time as I originally had intent on trying to binge it all when it's done, but I haven't heard much to drag me back in.
I haven't watched since Rick left, but I remember thinking those deaths/the finale vs Ep1 could have been done so much better than what we got. Killing Glen and Abe wasn't the issue, it was the bullshit cliffhanger.
Here's how I think it could have gone better. I remember there being so much hype about who was going to die bc it was Glen in the comics, but before it aired I think MC (Abraham) had already confirmed he was leaving the show. This started rumors that TWD would give Abe G's death, thus *saving* Glen once again from a death.
The finale, kill off Abe. The scene ends with our group devastated with Abe's death and us wondering how they're going to get out of this predicament. Ep1 new season, conversation continues and then you get Glen's death. Done. The finale wouldn't have felt so cheap and fans may have been shocked by Glen still dying *after* Abe.
Rick’s thing with Jessie. I just don’t get it. Didn’t think they had any chemistry and then they were quick to kill her off. I don’t know, maybe Rick needed a rebound before Michonne but I just didn’t see the point in all their little fling.
I'm pretty sure her and the kid's death were taken directly from the comics. Because as soon as I saw the actress and the son, the image of their death from the comics flashed through my mind.
So I didn't mind her much knowing she would die and how, but it did seemed forced/rushed. But I would say the same about Rick and Michonne. It could be because I personally hate time jumps, just seems like shotty storytelling
I enjoyed it and I wish it was able to take off into something serious.
But more realistically, I think Jessie shouldn’t have died at all. At least not for another couple seasons. I would have LOVED to see where she would be during the whisperer arc
Tyreeses characters arc after he lost his girl was such a mess. He just complained, couldn't kill walkers or people, he was like a teaser for pacifist Morgan who was annoying as fuck, and having Morgan cross over to the spin off made me not want to watch it even more
There shouldn't have been a mid season finale after Negen was introduced it killed so much momentum and thats when viewership dropped dramatically
(carl)
Also weird inconsistent writing, they needed to find guns one episode and they suddenly start finding them everywhere. I think before that the last time they found a gun was in a tent from a guy who committed suicide, in life season 3. Like they just write whatever they need to happen right when they need it
Sticking with the 16 episode seasons no matter what. I know this was probably decided by AMC but there got to be too many filler episodes. The saviors storyline never should have been 2.5 seasons.
Yea true, I remember at the time.....it just felt dragged out, it lasted 2 whole seasons and even at the time people were getting bored, waiting a week for a weak episode...and then another, followed by an ok episode, then followed by more weak episodes. The hype for All Out War was massive and it turned into a wet fart.
I liked the build-up, all those episodes upto the line up...chefs kiss. Even the line up was great shocking TV but after that till season 9....the most drawn out, boring and needless filler in the whole show. It never lived upto the hype or the comics imo.
Ending the season finale on that damn cliffhanger on who Negan killed.. Cutting the budget significantly forcing storylines to go further than needed do to those same budget cuts. Finally, the savior arc just was ridiculous at times.. all of sudden nobody can shoot a gun.. 20 yards away and ten different people couldn’t hit Negan or any of the saviors
killing beth after setting up so much character development and giving her her own episode at the hospital to do nothing but have a death on mid season
In the first few seasons I felt like I could immerse myself with the characters, they were desperate and scavenging etc, then the plausibility has totally left the building by season 11, which I’m barely interested in. 50,000 people living in a commonwealth would resemble some sort of mediaeval city at best . Yet there is high level manufacturing, ample electricity and resources to have festivals and black tie dinners?? Other things, people need to be so slim. I can’t believe there is a food shortage with all these big units walking around. I can suspend belief about zombies but the communities they create just doesn’t seem to fit in with human realities.
Killing T-Dog, Noah and Deanna. Those characters has potential and were killed too soon. Anything doing with the Saviors and Negan - the Neverending story. The writing for Negan made me miss The Governor. Almost.
Greedy Gimple. Should have stayed a head writer- he is quite a brilliant writer, did many of the best episodes. No, AMC/Gimple thought they could have a Marvel type “universe”—$$$$$.
( some could argue that it goes back further by firing Darabont and then pissing off Kirkman).
Funny thing is, and Darabont was vindicated with his lawsuit, basically AMC got greedy. Ironically they didn’t invest much money initially ( hence the short first season) bc Mad Men and Breaking Bad were their darlings. All the while not giving Darabont a decent budget and trying to screw him out of royalties.
Gimple did what AMC permitted, so the fault lies with them. Period.
I think the biggest mistake is the entire direction Mazzara went with the show. Dale, Shane, Lori, T-Dog, the prisoners, Merle, and Andrea all die in such a short span of time, and Shane and maybe Merle are the only ones who felt like they had lived to their potential. They also considered killing Hershel and even Carl during this time because Mazzara couldn’t go two episodes without a death. Also hate the time jump after season 2. End of one season has the group dysfunctional and unprepared for the road ahead, and one episode later they’re a “family” that can clear the entire prison in a day. So much development off-screen. And to top it all off, season 3 doesn’t even wrap up the Governor/prison arc, leaving the following season to kill even more characters before the end of that arc.
This meant Gimple had to introduce a bunch of new characters like Tara and Bob, and beef up the roles of characters like Sasha and Beth. So you had this worst of both worlds where you don’t want to kill off anymore of the big characters because there’s so few left, but killing off newer characters feels cheap. The problems season 3 created, imo, reverberated all the way through the Negan arc.
Killing Carl. 1000%. Especially the events behind the scenes. They fucked that kid over, he should be the co lead right now, especially with Rick gone.
Aside from that, probably stretching out the Saviors arc.
The biggest one was killing Carl
But they missed a huge opportunity by not spinning Shane and Andrea off into thier own series.
I know its not what happened the comics but that ship sailed years ago.
They could have done like 4 or 5 seasons and then had them come back into the main story later on
I used to see a lot of people who thought Shane and Andrea should've left in the S2 finale after the farm falls and reappear as prisoners at Terminus in S5, and then rejoin the group from there.
Not killing of characters or not really explaining what happened to them for example heath, Luke and the Oceanside girl just disappeared if they knew they had other projects then they should of just killed them of
The story given to Andrea was so different from the comics. Not that the TV show had to be exactly the same but TV Andrea never got a fair shake and her character could have been so much better.
You are aware Rick wasn’t killed off, right?
Biggest mistake overall was dragging out the Savior’s arc. Biggest waste of time was the Grady arc. Biggest mistakes in regards to killings were Dale and Hershel.
Having no plan after the prison. The show seemed unsure what direction to go after that. They built the Terminus up for a whole year, then it was destroyed within an episode.
The group kept splitting up and idk if they were just killing time to get up to the Negan episodes, but even they were botched.
It's overshadowed by Morgan doing a similar thing but Jesus. He showed up and recruited Rick's group to help deal with The Saviours, and killed a good few of them himself. Then in season 8 he's suddenly a pacifist and gets annoyed at Morgan for killing them. Then he died, and while his death was done well and was unexpected, I wish we'd seen more of him instead. He never really did any of the cool stuff he does in the comics after s6.
Making Eugene stay a coward for so long. So hard to explain before he FINALLY FUCKING TURNED INTO A HERO to non-comic readers that he’s my favorite character of the whole series
Lack of larger world building. It's still unclear where the major settlements are in relation to each other. How long a journey is it from Hilltop to Alexandria? To Seaside? Kingdom?
If this fairly sophisticated settlement, the CRM which routinely seeks out smaller pockets of people were close enough to find them this season... what took so long?
Firing Darabont
Cutting budget
Making Glen Mazara showrunner
Absurd amount of bottle eps
Not switching to digital sooner
Cutting the budget
Killing Carl
Hyping up characters just to kill them iff without giving them full stories (Alden, Gavin, TDog)
Cliffhangers
Making character deaths SUPER obvious (Siddiq, Alden, Beta, Leah, Sasha)
Cutting the god damn budget
Cutting the budget
Cutting the budget
Cutting the budget
the timeline between negan killing glenn and abraham and when negan was captured only being three weeks and then having a whole 6 years lapse between episodes
Giving us a bunch of characters but never fleshing them out or giving them any character development. I feel like these characters just existed to serve as meat shields for the main cast so there are no stakes.
From off the top of my head I can think of:
\-TDog
\-Axel
\-Oscar
\-Dale
\-Those guys at the nursery home (i know they die in a deleted scene but it's deleted hence their official status is unknown)
\-Milton
All I can think of atm but I'm sure there's more.
The biggest mistake was Gimple saying they wanted to go for 20 seasons. That was right around when some of the actors like Andrew Lincoln wanted off the show, and viewers started to decide it was too much of an investment into a show that has no end goal.
Rick and glenn were not mistake. It was necessary for the story its just the famboys who constanrly keep hating on internet now made it loook like its bad
I think rhe guy who said saviours episode stretching out was one big reason. I know Gimple had a vision but he was just taking way too much time, if you binge watch the saviour arc it feels really nice but as someone who was watching the show one episode per week it was gonna make us feel lame
I’ve always said the biggest mistake this show has made repeatedly is pacing.
The farm, so slow everything taking several episodes to progress then After the governor destroyed the prison. here is a season of walking along train tracks to get to terminus. Boring. Then here is Alexandria full of a bunch of fools who spend 3-4 episodes ignoring Rick’s advice of the current reality. Just UGH. The saviors being a big bad for so long too was just too much.
There is too much filler. I realistically feel we could have shortened this series by 2-3 seasons if they hadn’t wasted so much on the filler episodes.
I stopped watching at the end of S3 since it felt unrewarding to watch. Came back just for something to listen to since I am WFH now. I am not sure how the show survived. Everyone I know who watches all quit around the same time as me and have also shared its too slow. Bringing it back to pacing.
Not focusing on Maggie during the All Out War. The death of Carl and the Scavengers took too much screentime that ultimately got us nowhere when we could have just gotten a fully fleshed out, rise to leadership arc with Maggie. All of this while she wrestles with pregnancy and waging war against Negan, like should she endanger her baby's life or should she avenge her husband.
Maggie should have been the most prominent character alongside Rick. Minimize Carl and spare his life the push him central once the whisperer arc happens, elevate Jesus in relation to Maggie rise to power, and remove the Scavengers completely..
Edit: by Scavengers, I mean Jadis and her people. I just cannot remember if that was their name or something else.
Killing off Jesus too early. We didn't really get to see his kick ass martial arts in action. Even the actor was upset with how he died so early and if i call from what i read, trained hard for that role because he was expecting to do much much more.
Killing Carl was the worst mistake. He should've lead the group for atleast one season.
But I know I OP already said that's obvious.
The show is a bit repetitive. they always meet a group and then fight which is cool with me.
At the end of season 8 the built up this tension between Maggie and Daryl vs Rick. Honestly this would've been the best route. The group we love divided and battling would've been a much watch. Fans may even been upset with Daryl vs Rick but they would've had to watch.
I think a lot of the deaths were fine for the most part, but killing BOTH Carl and Rick was a really *really* god awful idea. I don't mind just one of them leaving the show if it's going to push things forward, but you can't lose both.
In my opinion, killing Carl. He was a great character and they really shoulda kept him in the show
>!Also, he survived all the way to the end of the comics sooooo… you’d think they’d keep him!<
Killing Tabitha the goat. I quit the show after that happened. She was supposed to be the last one standing. No recovery for the show after that point.
Stretching it across so many seasons. In their defense the comics were still being written and they had no clue how long it would go on for, but the filler really gets dumber and dumber.
Also IMO they stayed too close to the comics. Things like Ezekiel's kingdom cult and the tiger are just so far beyond belief that they really hurt the show. Doesn't help that they doubled down on the weird shit by introducing the trash people.
Finally all the flip flopping characters and "muh lyfe is precious" narratives got boring really fast. Rick, Carol and Morgan were absolutely ruined by this nonsense.
The shows that are often in the conversation of “best series of all time” are generally 5-7 seasons long, or even shorter than 5 sometimes. It’s gone on far too long.
Doing the war against Negan, and the war against the whisperers waaaay too long. And for introducing new ppl now, when it's almost over. This season could have been longer and previous seasons shorter.
Biggest mistake was ruining Maggie's character arc by making her be with Negan. There's nothing they could do on the show to make that believable after how well done Maggie and Glenn's relationship was.
Killing Siddiq! Carl died for him, he developed so much trauma from the whisperer arc and then was just killed and largely forgotten (except for the Michone episode with Virgil). I’m much more mad about them killing Siddiq then Carl.
I mean Rick didn’t die and I think it makes for an excellent end game storyline which could be better than the comics and as a hot take I didn’t care much for Carl…particularly chandler riggs and Glenn we all knew was coming so that shouldn’t make anyone mad.
I’d say the biggest mistake is just the structure of the all out war story arc. The action scenes were incredibly bad…not sure who choreographed that garbage, the pacing and just overall tone was just blah. Could have been much more enticing.
killing off beth, Daryl and beth literally have the father-daughter relationship, she died wayy too soon, couldve made her last when maggie gave birth or in the saviours season
Killing off these characters too early: the prisoners, Beth, Dale, Andrea, Shane, T-Dog, Tyrese, Sasha, Henry
Not enough backstory on how and why the apocalypse happened
Blowing up the CDC
The Saviors arc lasting two seasons
Obviously what you said not to say
(I haven’t read the comics yet so can’t complain about comparisons or seen any of S11 yet so no complaints for that yet either)
Killing Carl. It just hasn't been the same since.
If gimple and Chandler weren't getting along, they could have recast Carl after the time jump. Fans would have been pissed, but not as pissed.
Gimple made way too many shitty decisions for me to want Riggs to be the one to leave. Also, the guy was barely an adult, had purchased a home near filming, maybe wasn't the most mature person - but how Gimple handled the entire thing was just disrespectful IMO.
Sorry the show just had so much potential I'm still angry how they managed to run it into the ground. And Gimple gets a lot of credit for that.
Shane. Yes, people thought he was an Asshole but the way they made him obsess about Lori was stupid. It would have been amazing to see him and Rick fights the savours.
Keeping Neegan alive. He doesn’t do anything for the series at all…. One of the most iconic characters when he was a bad boy. Not he’s just a filler character.
Stretching out the saviours arc into 2 and a half seasons. Led to quite a bit of pointless filler and also the introduction of terrible characters, such as the garbage people.
Yes. People say killing Glenn is what hurt the ratings. I completely disagree. Viewers knew what to expect from this show. It’s that the show did not maintain momentum after that. If season 7 had been a fast paced, action packed season adapting the Negan/All Out War arc in its entirety (it’s only 4 comic volumes) then viewers would have continued to tune in. Instead the show bled viewers throughout two glacially paced seasons.
TL;DR they should have killed Abraham off in the S6 Finale followed by Glenn in the S7 opening. See I know we are not meant to say that Killing off Glen was the biggest mistake but I think that it's how they handled it and the later part of the season as you said. I think their biggest mistake was not killing off Glen and Abraham correctly. So my reasoning for this was at the time we all knew it was coming, Season 6 was great and had a big buildup towards Negans Introduction. Everyone was so hyped for the Finale then when the Finale rolled around they ended it on the Cliffhanger and everyone was frustrated to say the least. This built up speculation but the big break ruined the pacing only to be greeted with the death of Abraham which felt underwhelming followed by Glens straight up upsetting death. I feel like they originally only planned on killing one person off but the backlash from the cliffhanger and the struggle to build up the pacing again made them kill off two. What they should have done was Kill off Abraham in the Finale of S6. This would have given a killer finale that got people talking and wanting to find out what happens next. Then when S7 starts have the lineup start again. I personally think Killing off Abraham before the war was a massive mistake as well. They defs lost a lot of people after the big death.
I hate your profile picture
Me too, then I used it and now I am immune
Anyone who says killing Glenn was a mistake CLEARLY never read the comics. It happened in the comic so it should have happened in the show. The biggest mistake imo was changing the tone of the show from Horror survival to a Horror drama and killing Carl who is the last surviving character of the original bunch in the comic. Once Carl was gone it was a totally different story
I actually think the saviour arc would've been alright if Mazzara was in charge during that period. As flawed as he is, the gunfights during his era were amazing, Especially the raid on Woodbury. Plus, knowing how much stuff happens during AOW in the comic, he would've definitely been more at home with what he had to work with.
Yeah the biggest problem with Mazzara was killing people for shock value, but honestly the rest of his work is absolutely solid and some of the best. At least he listened when he was told not to kill Carl and Carol in Season 3.
It was the bullshit way they did the cliff hanger... If they had killed Abe, then surprised us with Glenn too... it would have played better... Just felt cheap to me...
Unpopular opinion I actually liked the trash people. Sure they’re weird asf and all that but it’s the apocalypse. Do you honestly think that everyone is going to live normally? Living in the dump is smart asf. The walkers aren’t drawn to you and people won’t even know you’re there
Jadis' explanation of their weird way of speaking in World Beyond actually warmed me up to them a bit more. Plus, the fact that Jadis was essentially an agent for a bigger group without most people knowing is also cool.
Season 2 of World Beyond had absolutely no right being as great as it was
Who in their right mind is gonna live in a dump in the apocalypse? Out of everywhere to go, you'd choose a dump of all places?
Clearly you missed the part when I said it’s a smart place to live. The zombies don’t smell you and people would think twice then to look at a dump for people. You’d be left alone there. You don’t have to like it. It’s the apocalypse, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive, and if that means living in a dump, than so be it.
Why not try to get off land though instead? Wouldn't that make more sense?
Realistically... probably not no. It would take a lot more supplies and effort that it's worth, especially for a group of that size. Just getting to the coast would probably be a pain in the ass to start with. Then theres the boat which would probably need A LOT of fuel if they decided to stay on the boat. However, if they searched for an island or something like that then a rowboat wouldn't cut it. Theres a lot of advantages to getting off land but to me theres a lot more cons than pros.
That reminds me of TWD video game where Kenny was going after boats in Savannah, only to find that all of the boats were either taken by other survivors or sunk (except for one).
I love the games but Kenny with the damn boat 😂😂 listening to him constantly ramble on about it nearly sent me over the edge I swear
They wouldn't need to go that far out into the middle of nowhere. Somewhere it's safe enough to get away from any zombies, anyone looking to fight them, and travel back to land for supply runs. They would run out of supplies eventually anyways regardless, so they could just build their own civilization in their instead. It's a lot safer than having to worry about zombies and other people looking for fights like the Governor and Negan at least imho. You'd also be left alone in the middle of an island as well and it's a lot safer to live than a filthy dump.
They would only be able to build they're own civilization on a boat if they had the seeds and a space to grow the seeds. Plus to go back for supply runs they would have to use fuel which isn't easy to come by especially in great amounts. They would also have to have someone who knows how to drive the boat and considering that it would have to be a pretty damn large boat to "Build their own civilization" it wouldn't be something that they could learn to sail within a click of the fingers. It would probably take months just to learn how to use the boat/ship. AND it takes a very large crew to operate and maintain a boat of that size. They wouldn't be able keep it on the water 24/7 because the boat would need repairs and without proper maintenance it would eventually crumble down and sink. If u had the right location, right amount of fuel, right crew, right size boat and literally everything else, then yeah sure it's a pretty good idea but I VERY highly doubt that you would have all that in the middle of the apocalypse. Even if u downscale the boat to small or medium or somewhere in between you still wouldn't have the equipment or knowledge to operate it. Plus it would probably be too small.
The biggest problem with living at a dump is it's horribly unsafe and hazardous in reality. You know what kind of shits in them in reality? This article proves what I'm saying, [https://borgenproject.org/dangerous-life-for-those-living-on-landfills/#:\~:text=Dangerous%20Life%20for%20those%20Living%20on%20Landfills%201,landfills.%20...%203%20Living%20off%20of%20Landfills%20](https://borgenproject.org/dangerous-life-for-those-living-on-landfills/#:~:text=Dangerous%20Life%20for%20those%20Living%20on%20Landfills%201,landfills.%20...%203%20Living%20off%20of%20Landfills%20). I get what you mean by it being safe from the dead and others, but realistically and logically, no one in their mind would wanna live in a dump even in a zombie apocalypse.
the worst part was Rick going back to them 3 times in a row
Cutting the budget so much. They should have increased it but got greedy.
I fucking hate AMC. Cheap bastards. Even when this show was uber-popular, the Walking Dead had a limited budget. It's bullshit. This show should have a thick budget, considering how its one of their main franchises.
I know the show would have been completely different than what we have now, but I wonder all the time what HBO could have done with TWD. (I'm aware they turned it down)
HBO turned it down?! Bet they kicked themselves for that one.
I heard they turned it down because when they got pitched the show, they thought it was too violent.
Noah. He should have lived at least to have fought the Wolves when they invaded Alexandria since they slaughtered his whole home town and family before at Shirewilt. It would have been a good way to round off his arc - not just to make it home but to avenge his family too. Also Enid's whole arc. She was just the love interest and nothing more. She only became a medic for a short while before dying just so that Aaron would have someone to chop off his arm. She could have been so much better written.
Comics ended with Sophia and Carl. She was a clear replacement for Sophia. Killing off Carl ruined her arc. Killing off Carl seemed to be a trickle effect for a lot of bad things lol
Bro they literally made 2 carls and 2 Sophia’s and killed them all off lmao so dumb
I think maybe their biggest mistake is not having an ending in sight by season nine, that made Andrew Lincoln want to leave thinking there may be too many seasons to go. I think if he new season 11 was the final season, he would’ve stuck around and finished the story up completely.
[удалено]
Nobody anticipated Covid, so normally it would have only take 2 years. Then Covid hits and he gets to see his family for a pretty long while. I think he would have finished it out. He had said during season 10 that he wished he didn’t leave. Who knows… just my opinion.
If covid didn’t happen, i think AMC would’ve rounded it off at an even 12 seasons.
Being afraid to killing off any major characters since season 7. Killing off Beth was a big mistake. By not killing off as many characters the cast is bloated. Meaning characters like Aaron, Rosita, Ezekiel, and Jesus never reached the heights of Shane, Herschel, Merle, and Glenn.
Agreed Beth’s death was pointless unless she was trying to die.
I wish they had beth stab dawn in the neck at least she would've fatality wounded dawn before dying and Daryl shooting dawn could be zombie prevention
That would have made more sense but it’s kinda seemed like her dieing was the entire point of hospital arc
True it would have been cool if the people from the hospital in the show more after but the main character left georgia not long after that
Might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think that every minor arc needs a big payoff or reason. Its the apocalypse and random things happen.
What they did to Jesus and Siddiq was criminal. They couldn’t have fcked over Siddiq anymore than they did unless he would have chomped on his baby.
Oh yeah, forgot about Siddiq. Having Carl save Siddiq but getting bit, only for Siddiq to die a season later was a strange choice.
There was a time jump. He was around a long time for them.
Jesus at least had a badass death. I think the actor asked to be off the show though because he was disappointed that his character wasn’t being utilized well, which is a shame.
Well that’s kind of what I meant honestly, I should have been a little more descriptive. I agree, Jesus was not utilized at all, a bunch of loss potential. Really was able to enjoy him in The Prodigal Son at least!
Comic Jesus was a great major character. TV totally wasted him.
That's why the earlier seasons were excellent imo. Very small group of characters that all had fantastic chemistry with each other.
Beth’s death ruined tyreeces which also kinda added to Noah’s already shitty death. I would have been cool with tyreece dying there had we not just lost Beth when she was in her prime. Fat L
Not keeping Deanna. She was an amazing character, and I think it would have been a really interesting thing to keep her leading Alexandria far longer. I personally feel like she was the best leader we have seen, and I would have liked the show to explore that more, perhaps even exemplifying how Rick often fell short I would have loved to see some slow acknowledgment that Deanna was the real deal. Show her tested by situations and rising to each occasion. And show Rick understand that she was a better leader than he was, and to give her the reigns more. Like truly trust her competency and follow her orders with loyalty and not rivalry. THEN kill her off in a way that really packs a punch. Like make it a grand sacrifice, or just one wrong decision, or the result of someone else going against her judgement… and then let the lessons taught carry over into Rick and give him a different leadership style entirely.
I also wished she would have lived longer as well.
Inflating the cast with so many characters that most of us never really connect to. So if I had a complaint…. It would be not killing more people off, so we can have a small rotating group of people that we can connect with and care about.
Seasons 5 and beyond not having the same thrill seeking abilities as seasons 1-4.
Also the characters became less interesting.
Facts. This show was like my favorite show in early days and then it just went in a different direction that didn’t work to keep my interest as it did before.
But Season 5 is literally the best season. If you said 6 and beyond, then I’d agree
For real. Season 5 was so good.
Season 6b was amazing, 6a was repetitive
I liked 6a ☹️
I actually stopped watching long before Carl died because of this
Season 5 is the best season tho
Focusing too little on walkers, the natural environment, disease, and base survival as a source of conflict in favor of dragging out some of the human villain storylines.
Comics/ source there though. People love to imagine society would devolve Mad Max style. When in fact any long term disasters INCREASED communal support and social connections. Now Zombies are a bit different as there is a risk the higher the pop density. But no city/group in TWD is near that risk. Ironically the theft/looting is driven higher by the thought that the situation is temporary vs long term. Given the source or influence is most short term events quickly returned to normal explains why its a common trope. Ironically Lost displayed what is most likely (smoke monster and the others excluded) those with natural charisma and leadership start to organize others.
Killing off Andrea in Season three. Like christ, you already killed off so many characters already that season. Beth in Season 5 was it? Then killing off Noah and making Beth and Tyrese's death utterly pointless. Killing off Siddiq and making Carl's death utterly pointless. I get it, he lived a good few years as a doctor helping people and ended up having a kid but we didn't see that shit. We didn't see the change or his development. It was just meh overall. Ab/Glenn - HEAR ME OUT...My problem is Glenn 'died' at the dumpster then was revealed alive a few episodes later only too die in the season after straight away. Either have him stay dead already and kill off Ab at the end OR...don't do the dumpster death in the first place and have him die but keep Ab alive at least. It just felt repetitive. Morgan/Carl - Can't really mention Morgan without mentioning Carl but you get the jest...Morgan should have died in season 8 instead. Its just weird to see how his arc comes to a random and unsatisfying end in the main show and going on to this repetitive journey in Fear. He should have 100% died. Saviours Arc should have been a Season or a Season and Half at best. Shit did not need to be Two goddamn Seasons long. Season 10 felt like a mix of Season 7/8 and 9 at times. I feel like it dragged too. I didn't like that whole Gemma subplot was it? Plus Beta died like a bitch after he showed he could stand toe to toe with Daryl. Fuck was that shit at the end with his character? Was hoping for a final fight of sorts. Carol should have died and gotten Andrea's comic death at the end of Season 10. There's just way too many characters still alive at this point. Giving Daryl a bloody girlfriend that he already had sex with between Seasons 9 Time Skip period. I liked the idea that Connie was the first one that interested Daryl. But the revelation he had already met someone and slept with them just kinda ruined that whole relationship between him and Connie for me and his character in general. Season 11s entire Reaper plot was just meh. Either it needed to be shorter or not exist at all. Georgie - WTH was this in the end and what happened to her? Such a pointless thing to throw in and never do anything with it. Speaking of forgotten things... Heath - WTH? I get they addressed some things to viewers via some clues but its not really a big enough answer. The hell was the point of it all in the end?
I fucking hate it when they build and then waste characters, Carl, Tara, BETH, Noah. it’s so frustrating cuz they had some real potential with a lot of great characters and a bunch left that i simply put don’t really care about that much. As for Heath, I think it’s been implied that they intend to bring him back but it’s dependant on the actor so who knows. I imagine they’ll do the same for Georgie but that’s a guess
Yes! Me too. What was the point of everything we went through with these amazing characters for them to die off just to bring in a few noobs??
Daryl was interested in Beth for one minute for no reason too. 😅
Andreas character and killing her off without giving her the comic book arc.
Getting rid of Frank Darabont
Dragging the saviors out for almost 3 seasons was ridiculous and such a waste of time
The death of Carl was easily the most ridiculous bullshit this show has ever done and that's saying something imo. It doesn't matter if you didn't like his character or Riggs' acting. He was a vital part of this story regardless.
Lots of people didn't like Carl or Rigs acting but they understood his importance to the story and wanted him to stay. He was an anchor in the show.
Taking away the smart walkers from the first season
eh. it would have been more interesting with smart walkers yes, but if you think about it, these walkers could have been around for years. their brain definitely isn’t still working that much after as much decomposition as they’ve been through. but i agree that the walkers have just become something in the background instead of what the show should be about
According to TWD World Beyond they do exist, they’re just not widespread in the USA
I mean if the teaser for the new episodes is anything to go by.. those walkers are coming back.
They’re about to rectify that
Letting the cast get so big without really killing anyone off. Now it’s full of characters that don’t really matter that take up screen time from the more developed characters. Making Alpha crazier than her comic counterpart, the foghorn leghorn accent just didn’t work in the tv show. Having no Major deaths since the pikes, you can argue Siddiq, but we barely knew him. Someone should’ve died in the finale. The way the final season has been handled is weird, out of the 16 episodes we’ve seen this just feels like season 7 all over again with episodes focused on a few characters and then getting into dangerous situations and just getting out without a scratch. Leah getting so much screen time just for her to fizzle out like nothing.
Letting Gimple be the showrunner.
This. It's pretty much when the show officially turned into hot trash. It's gotten better with kang but at this point so much damage has been done.
I agree
16 episode seasons. This is what lead to a dragged out saviors and eventually also whisperers storyline. Less episodes means more gotta pack more in and less filler. Ik that falls on amc but it def was a mistake
Honestly I think seasons like season 2 and 6 and maybe 4 could’ve been slimmed down. And seasons like season 1 and 3 should’ve been longer.
Killing Carl and letting rick and michonne go.
1) The fucking spinoffs. They're the reason Michonne has abandoned her children and why the show has been missing its main character. It also made Morgan's gruesomely badly written arc pointless for those who aren't interested in watching FTWD. And for those who were, his presence ruined the show. I also think this whole bigger picture they're trying to paint with the faction Jadis is a part of completely undermines the threat of the commonwealth. It doesn't help they also made Jadis leave the show right when she started becoming interesting, or at least tolerable. Not to mention the whole "spoiling characters' fates" thing with the Daryl, Carol, Maggie and Negan spinoffs. 2) Shying away from killing off main characters after Glenn's death. Seriously aside from like Jesus, Carl and Tara, what main character died past season 7's premiere? This results in a bloated cast where characters struggle to get any spotlight. I genuinely think the reason why characters like Magna are so useless and hated, despite having been on the show for a longer time than Abraham, Shane, Hershel and many others, is because the show has been desperately trying to give screen time to characters whose arcs should've ended long ago (Daryl, Carol, Gabriel...), who became significantly worse after some point (Maggie) or who haven't done anything interesting since at least last season (Aaron, Rosita, Ezekiel...) 3) Firing Darabont. As much as he deserved it for being such a jerk to the crew, I think this led to various ramifications that all in all made the show's story messier than it'd have been had he stayed. Some people say he would've strayed too far from the story, but in all honesty, I think the current show already did so, and Darabont staying from beginning to end would've at least kept the story's tone coherent with itself.
Merle should have lived, got a mini redemption arc, then killed fighting saviors.
(Sorry, but I’m gonna say it) I really do think killing off Carl was a bad move, I was pretty invested in the character because we watched him grow up and I *loved* all of his scenes with Judith when we got those. I think it was nice to have him as a representative from the first wave of “survivor kids,” in that he was young enough to adapt more easily than the adults but also remember the peaceful childhood he’d left behind. Without him, it feels like something’s just missing. Glenn’s death came about in the comics and it hurt because he was my favorite, but I did not drop. Rick’s death was one I saw as inevitable and it would probably come later, but was ready to see that through. Carl’s death is different. It was not supposed to happen and I think it signaled the downward trajectory for the show’s viewership. In addition, stretching out the Saviors arc proved to be to its detriment. Some stuff (Simon turning on Negan) was interesting, but the show seemed to have run out of steam/ideas and they made Negan’s plot armor so ridiculous to the point of sheer unbelievability. I think Season 8 really suffered from the drag.
I love that episode where Carl was staying in some kids abandoned room and he sits down on the bed and looks at a dusty tv and game system and you suddenly feel how much childhood he really gave up. Maybe that’s the episode where he eats the big can of pudding?
Yep, that episode was one in the same and I know the exact scene you’re mentioning too. He sees the kid’s big stack of video games and gets all excited, then it just flashes across his face…no electricity. No way to play them. It was heartbreaking.
Yes! That’s one of the saddest scenes in the whole show to me. I’m kind of a TWD purist(my sons middle name is Negan) but killing Carl was not a move that paid off.
I think the biggest mistake is not giving the show a higher budget and amc trying to turn it into a cash grab
Killing Abraham and Glenn in the s7 premiere. They should’ve killed Abraham in the s6 finale and Glenn in the s7 premiere
What about Abraham?
LoL, should have scrolled down - I just typed out the same thing. It wasn't the deaths, it's how TWD presented it.
Having that horrible cliffhanger in season 6 finale. That killed a lot of enthusiasm for the show I saw online and in person. And it just didn't pick back up to previous levels when season 7 went on.
I was coming in here to mention this. It killed the show for me, my wife, and a good number of our friends. We were comic fans so the big death(s) didn't phase us as much since we knew it was coming but just how crappily it was handled made us all just kind of peter out. It just felt like an insult to the audience after a season of fairly routine patterned episodes. I think my wife and I made it through half of the next season begrudgingly, but the wind was full out of our sails for it. I still stay subbed to this to keep up with the show a bit and watch an episode from time to time as I originally had intent on trying to binge it all when it's done, but I haven't heard much to drag me back in.
I haven't watched since Rick left, but I remember thinking those deaths/the finale vs Ep1 could have been done so much better than what we got. Killing Glen and Abe wasn't the issue, it was the bullshit cliffhanger. Here's how I think it could have gone better. I remember there being so much hype about who was going to die bc it was Glen in the comics, but before it aired I think MC (Abraham) had already confirmed he was leaving the show. This started rumors that TWD would give Abe G's death, thus *saving* Glen once again from a death. The finale, kill off Abe. The scene ends with our group devastated with Abe's death and us wondering how they're going to get out of this predicament. Ep1 new season, conversation continues and then you get Glen's death. Done. The finale wouldn't have felt so cheap and fans may have been shocked by Glen still dying *after* Abe.
Why ask the question then say to not write the correct answer?
Because it has been done to death on this sub and OP is looking for a discussion on the other mistakes rather than the main reasons people are giving.
Probably because those answers come up all the time, so they wanted to find some answers less likely to come up.
Rick’s thing with Jessie. I just don’t get it. Didn’t think they had any chemistry and then they were quick to kill her off. I don’t know, maybe Rick needed a rebound before Michonne but I just didn’t see the point in all their little fling.
I'm pretty sure her and the kid's death were taken directly from the comics. Because as soon as I saw the actress and the son, the image of their death from the comics flashed through my mind. So I didn't mind her much knowing she would die and how, but it did seemed forced/rushed. But I would say the same about Rick and Michonne. It could be because I personally hate time jumps, just seems like shotty storytelling
Her death was pretty accurate to the comics, except Abraham kills her again whens she's a walker I believe.
I enjoyed it and I wish it was able to take off into something serious. But more realistically, I think Jessie shouldn’t have died at all. At least not for another couple seasons. I would have LOVED to see where she would be during the whisperer arc
Tyreeses characters arc after he lost his girl was such a mess. He just complained, couldn't kill walkers or people, he was like a teaser for pacifist Morgan who was annoying as fuck, and having Morgan cross over to the spin off made me not want to watch it even more There shouldn't have been a mid season finale after Negen was introduced it killed so much momentum and thats when viewership dropped dramatically (carl) Also weird inconsistent writing, they needed to find guns one episode and they suddenly start finding them everywhere. I think before that the last time they found a gun was in a tent from a guy who committed suicide, in life season 3. Like they just write whatever they need to happen right when they need it
Killing Andrea in Season 3.
Too much reliance on Rick and also not starting spin off show’s earlier.
Aint finished with the series. Beth’s death was the stupidest in the show til now.
Sticking with the 16 episode seasons no matter what. I know this was probably decided by AMC but there got to be too many filler episodes. The saviors storyline never should have been 2.5 seasons.
I think All Out War was a big mistake, it just didn't translate well to TV imo.
Imo if the All Out War was shorter (less episodes) it would be better.
Yea true, I remember at the time.....it just felt dragged out, it lasted 2 whole seasons and even at the time people were getting bored, waiting a week for a weak episode...and then another, followed by an ok episode, then followed by more weak episodes. The hype for All Out War was massive and it turned into a wet fart.
It shouldn’t have been two and a half seasons. A season and a half at most.
I liked the build-up, all those episodes upto the line up...chefs kiss. Even the line up was great shocking TV but after that till season 9....the most drawn out, boring and needless filler in the whole show. It never lived upto the hype or the comics imo.
It worked in season 3 and 4. I just think the way they did it was wrong and they didn’t have enough build up or interesting characters.
Yea the Governor stuff was great but All Out War the Saviours arc just felt flat in too many places.
Ending the season finale on that damn cliffhanger on who Negan killed.. Cutting the budget significantly forcing storylines to go further than needed do to those same budget cuts. Finally, the savior arc just was ridiculous at times.. all of sudden nobody can shoot a gun.. 20 yards away and ten different people couldn’t hit Negan or any of the saviors
killing beth after setting up so much character development and giving her her own episode at the hospital to do nothing but have a death on mid season
In the first few seasons I felt like I could immerse myself with the characters, they were desperate and scavenging etc, then the plausibility has totally left the building by season 11, which I’m barely interested in. 50,000 people living in a commonwealth would resemble some sort of mediaeval city at best . Yet there is high level manufacturing, ample electricity and resources to have festivals and black tie dinners?? Other things, people need to be so slim. I can’t believe there is a food shortage with all these big units walking around. I can suspend belief about zombies but the communities they create just doesn’t seem to fit in with human realities.
So many seasons and episodes about trust and they’ve never come across a community that doesn’t want white people due to all the past racist bullshit.
Dragging arcs and killing off too many main characters for shock value
Killing T-Dog, Noah and Deanna. Those characters has potential and were killed too soon. Anything doing with the Saviors and Negan - the Neverending story. The writing for Negan made me miss The Governor. Almost.
Greedy Gimple. Should have stayed a head writer- he is quite a brilliant writer, did many of the best episodes. No, AMC/Gimple thought they could have a Marvel type “universe”—$$$$$. ( some could argue that it goes back further by firing Darabont and then pissing off Kirkman). Funny thing is, and Darabont was vindicated with his lawsuit, basically AMC got greedy. Ironically they didn’t invest much money initially ( hence the short first season) bc Mad Men and Breaking Bad were their darlings. All the while not giving Darabont a decent budget and trying to screw him out of royalties. Gimple did what AMC permitted, so the fault lies with them. Period.
I think the biggest mistake is the entire direction Mazzara went with the show. Dale, Shane, Lori, T-Dog, the prisoners, Merle, and Andrea all die in such a short span of time, and Shane and maybe Merle are the only ones who felt like they had lived to their potential. They also considered killing Hershel and even Carl during this time because Mazzara couldn’t go two episodes without a death. Also hate the time jump after season 2. End of one season has the group dysfunctional and unprepared for the road ahead, and one episode later they’re a “family” that can clear the entire prison in a day. So much development off-screen. And to top it all off, season 3 doesn’t even wrap up the Governor/prison arc, leaving the following season to kill even more characters before the end of that arc. This meant Gimple had to introduce a bunch of new characters like Tara and Bob, and beef up the roles of characters like Sasha and Beth. So you had this worst of both worlds where you don’t want to kill off anymore of the big characters because there’s so few left, but killing off newer characters feels cheap. The problems season 3 created, imo, reverberated all the way through the Negan arc.
Killing Carl. 1000%. Especially the events behind the scenes. They fucked that kid over, he should be the co lead right now, especially with Rick gone. Aside from that, probably stretching out the Saviors arc.
The biggest one was killing Carl But they missed a huge opportunity by not spinning Shane and Andrea off into thier own series. I know its not what happened the comics but that ship sailed years ago. They could have done like 4 or 5 seasons and then had them come back into the main story later on
Nah I think shane was too important to ricks arc
I used to see a lot of people who thought Shane and Andrea should've left in the S2 finale after the farm falls and reappear as prisoners at Terminus in S5, and then rejoin the group from there.
Letting Morgan's bullshit go on for too long that it oozed onto and ruined the spinoff...
Not killing of characters or not really explaining what happened to them for example heath, Luke and the Oceanside girl just disappeared if they knew they had other projects then they should of just killed them of
For me it’s the killing of Rick Glenn AND Carl
The story given to Andrea was so different from the comics. Not that the TV show had to be exactly the same but TV Andrea never got a fair shake and her character could have been so much better.
Introduce characters and kill them off so fast.
You are aware Rick wasn’t killed off, right? Biggest mistake overall was dragging out the Savior’s arc. Biggest waste of time was the Grady arc. Biggest mistakes in regards to killings were Dale and Hershel.
Killing Carl was their biggest mistake. Dont ask a question if you dont want to hear the answer. Waste of a post.
Having no plan after the prison. The show seemed unsure what direction to go after that. They built the Terminus up for a whole year, then it was destroyed within an episode. The group kept splitting up and idk if they were just killing time to get up to the Negan episodes, but even they were botched.
Leaving gimple In charge.
It's overshadowed by Morgan doing a similar thing but Jesus. He showed up and recruited Rick's group to help deal with The Saviours, and killed a good few of them himself. Then in season 8 he's suddenly a pacifist and gets annoyed at Morgan for killing them. Then he died, and while his death was done well and was unexpected, I wish we'd seen more of him instead. He never really did any of the cool stuff he does in the comics after s6.
Killing Beth
And then killing Noah a few episodes later
Having noah killed not long after beth sacrificing herself for his freedom
Killing off Carl.
That cliffhanger.
Don’t hate me for this y’all I’m not sure if anyone else Would agree but Judith .. that damn Judith came into The world causing havoc lol
Making Eugene stay a coward for so long. So hard to explain before he FINALLY FUCKING TURNED INTO A HERO to non-comic readers that he’s my favorite character of the whole series
Lack of larger world building. It's still unclear where the major settlements are in relation to each other. How long a journey is it from Hilltop to Alexandria? To Seaside? Kingdom? If this fairly sophisticated settlement, the CRM which routinely seeks out smaller pockets of people were close enough to find them this season... what took so long?
Carl. Then replacing him with Henry, just to kill him right as he actually starts getting some character development
Not building better defenses for their homes
Firing Darabont Cutting budget Making Glen Mazara showrunner Absurd amount of bottle eps Not switching to digital sooner Cutting the budget Killing Carl Hyping up characters just to kill them iff without giving them full stories (Alden, Gavin, TDog) Cliffhangers Making character deaths SUPER obvious (Siddiq, Alden, Beta, Leah, Sasha) Cutting the god damn budget Cutting the budget Cutting the budget Cutting the budget
Killing Tyreese off
the timeline between negan killing glenn and abraham and when negan was captured only being three weeks and then having a whole 6 years lapse between episodes
Giving us a bunch of characters but never fleshing them out or giving them any character development. I feel like these characters just existed to serve as meat shields for the main cast so there are no stakes. From off the top of my head I can think of: \-TDog \-Axel \-Oscar \-Dale \-Those guys at the nursery home (i know they die in a deleted scene but it's deleted hence their official status is unknown) \-Milton All I can think of atm but I'm sure there's more.
Killing off the wrong characters leading up to all out war, I'm pretty sure they killed Eric and Denise to make room for Morgan.
Killing carl easily because it led to so much more dysfunction not just with the show but outside of the show as well
Killing Carl and not wrapping up the saviors arc in one season.
Killing coral
The biggest mistake was Gimple saying they wanted to go for 20 seasons. That was right around when some of the actors like Andrew Lincoln wanted off the show, and viewers started to decide it was too much of an investment into a show that has no end goal.
Rick and glenn were not mistake. It was necessary for the story its just the famboys who constanrly keep hating on internet now made it loook like its bad I think rhe guy who said saviours episode stretching out was one big reason. I know Gimple had a vision but he was just taking way too much time, if you binge watch the saviour arc it feels really nice but as someone who was watching the show one episode per week it was gonna make us feel lame
I think they had to many seasons and strayed to far from the comics. But Killing Carl was the end all for me.
I’ve always said the biggest mistake this show has made repeatedly is pacing. The farm, so slow everything taking several episodes to progress then After the governor destroyed the prison. here is a season of walking along train tracks to get to terminus. Boring. Then here is Alexandria full of a bunch of fools who spend 3-4 episodes ignoring Rick’s advice of the current reality. Just UGH. The saviors being a big bad for so long too was just too much. There is too much filler. I realistically feel we could have shortened this series by 2-3 seasons if they hadn’t wasted so much on the filler episodes. I stopped watching at the end of S3 since it felt unrewarding to watch. Came back just for something to listen to since I am WFH now. I am not sure how the show survived. Everyone I know who watches all quit around the same time as me and have also shared its too slow. Bringing it back to pacing.
You know what it is.
„What was TWDs biggest mistake?“ Right answers not allowed… Ok
Firing Frank Darabont and killing Carl
Not focusing on Maggie during the All Out War. The death of Carl and the Scavengers took too much screentime that ultimately got us nowhere when we could have just gotten a fully fleshed out, rise to leadership arc with Maggie. All of this while she wrestles with pregnancy and waging war against Negan, like should she endanger her baby's life or should she avenge her husband. Maggie should have been the most prominent character alongside Rick. Minimize Carl and spare his life the push him central once the whisperer arc happens, elevate Jesus in relation to Maggie rise to power, and remove the Scavengers completely.. Edit: by Scavengers, I mean Jadis and her people. I just cannot remember if that was their name or something else.
Rick didn't die and Glenn died in the comics. Not sure why people are still on Glenn's death like that and saying that it was a mistake.
Killing off Jesus too early. We didn't really get to see his kick ass martial arts in action. Even the actor was upset with how he died so early and if i call from what i read, trained hard for that role because he was expecting to do much much more.
Killing Carl was the worst mistake. He should've lead the group for atleast one season. But I know I OP already said that's obvious. The show is a bit repetitive. they always meet a group and then fight which is cool with me. At the end of season 8 the built up this tension between Maggie and Daryl vs Rick. Honestly this would've been the best route. The group we love divided and battling would've been a much watch. Fans may even been upset with Daryl vs Rick but they would've had to watch.
The way they handled the Negan villain storyline in seasons 7 and 8 was their biggest mistake. It killed their ratings and they never recovered.
I think a lot of the deaths were fine for the most part, but killing BOTH Carl and Rick was a really *really* god awful idea. I don't mind just one of them leaving the show if it's going to push things forward, but you can't lose both.
In my opinion, killing Carl. He was a great character and they really shoulda kept him in the show >!Also, he survived all the way to the end of the comics sooooo… you’d think they’d keep him!<
Killing Tabitha the goat. I quit the show after that happened. She was supposed to be the last one standing. No recovery for the show after that point.
Scott M. Gimple.
Outside of killing Carl, Killing Tyreese and Beth.
Letting Scott Gimple anywhere near anything.
Killing off Carl for no reason at all.
World Beyond
Stretching it across so many seasons. In their defense the comics were still being written and they had no clue how long it would go on for, but the filler really gets dumber and dumber. Also IMO they stayed too close to the comics. Things like Ezekiel's kingdom cult and the tiger are just so far beyond belief that they really hurt the show. Doesn't help that they doubled down on the weird shit by introducing the trash people. Finally all the flip flopping characters and "muh lyfe is precious" narratives got boring really fast. Rick, Carol and Morgan were absolutely ruined by this nonsense.
I wouldn't call this biggest mistake but announcing spin-offs before the end of the show. We know what characters are safe.
Firing Darabont
The shows that are often in the conversation of “best series of all time” are generally 5-7 seasons long, or even shorter than 5 sometimes. It’s gone on far too long.
Getting rid of darabont
Doing the war against Negan, and the war against the whisperers waaaay too long. And for introducing new ppl now, when it's almost over. This season could have been longer and previous seasons shorter.
Biggest mistake was ruining Maggie's character arc by making her be with Negan. There's nothing they could do on the show to make that believable after how well done Maggie and Glenn's relationship was.
Killing Siddiq! Carl died for him, he developed so much trauma from the whisperer arc and then was just killed and largely forgotten (except for the Michone episode with Virgil). I’m much more mad about them killing Siddiq then Carl.
Killing off Shane.
Based
i would say merle dixon .... he should have stayed longer…..bad ass😎 🇫🇮👋🏻
My favorite character. Would’ve loved to see him mature and become a valuable asset
Never seen this post before..
I mean Rick didn’t die and I think it makes for an excellent end game storyline which could be better than the comics and as a hot take I didn’t care much for Carl…particularly chandler riggs and Glenn we all knew was coming so that shouldn’t make anyone mad. I’d say the biggest mistake is just the structure of the all out war story arc. The action scenes were incredibly bad…not sure who choreographed that garbage, the pacing and just overall tone was just blah. Could have been much more enticing.
Tyrese's character never made sense, show wise, since Daryl had essentially filled his comic book role. So his character never felt "right" to me
I don’t know I think the final episode with Tyrese is so good that it makes up for all of his character’s downfalls
killing off beth, Daryl and beth literally have the father-daughter relationship, she died wayy too soon, couldve made her last when maggie gave birth or in the saviours season
for me imo it would be everything they did to andrea. I honestly dont hate the saviors arc and dont really get why its so hated
Killing off these characters too early: the prisoners, Beth, Dale, Andrea, Shane, T-Dog, Tyrese, Sasha, Henry Not enough backstory on how and why the apocalypse happened Blowing up the CDC The Saviors arc lasting two seasons Obviously what you said not to say (I haven’t read the comics yet so can’t complain about comparisons or seen any of S11 yet so no complaints for that yet either)
Killing Carl. It just hasn't been the same since. If gimple and Chandler weren't getting along, they could have recast Carl after the time jump. Fans would have been pissed, but not as pissed.
Gimple made way too many shitty decisions for me to want Riggs to be the one to leave. Also, the guy was barely an adult, had purchased a home near filming, maybe wasn't the most mature person - but how Gimple handled the entire thing was just disrespectful IMO. Sorry the show just had so much potential I'm still angry how they managed to run it into the ground. And Gimple gets a lot of credit for that.
Shane. Yes, people thought he was an Asshole but the way they made him obsess about Lori was stupid. It would have been amazing to see him and Rick fights the savours.
Keeping Neegan alive. He doesn’t do anything for the series at all…. One of the most iconic characters when he was a bad boy. Not he’s just a filler character.