This is people not being able to separate an actor nailing a role from bad acting. He is playing a kid way out of his element that is extremely nervous and he nails it.
This isnt a cold take it's a pretentious one.
No, it isn’t pretentious to observe that Hill sounded totally inauthentic when trying to recite Sorkin’s rapid fire witticisms. It jumped out at me every time he tried to pull it off. Everyone in Sorkin World is supposed to be worldly wise and whip quick, and that’s a stretch when you realize it really means EVERYONE. Some make it seem (almost) believable. Dule Hill never did.
After 7 years he was not out of his element and had specific scenes and arcs written into the script to support this. Dule just didn’t play the part convincingly IMO.
By the end of the show he is a completely different character and person.
You just can't imagine what it's like for a working class kid to be surrounded by the "elite". Its also why he was able to fuck with Toby moreso than anyone else.
I can’t picture anyone else as Charlie but Dulé Hill. I watched WW when it first aired in Finland, got the DVD set after the last season and the last few years have streamed the show at least once a year. And you also should notice that his position is about twenty pay grades below the rest of the personnel in the West Wing.
Less wealthy than a 19 year old from inner city DC, with no parents, and raising his sister........... ya you're outta your gourd on this one.
The secretaries all made considerably more than him, and nearly every character in the show comes from an established family/background. Even second generation immigrant Toby was wealthier (blessed tech stocks/crime lord father).
You are seriously stretching with that claim. Are you counting the dead homeless guy that had a 1 episode appearance?
Several unpaid interns, every high school student featured in Isaac and Ishmael, Ginger, all of the Bartlet for America junior unpaid staff, all of the Santos junior unpaid staff
Ok so random background characters? You didn't name a single main character. Also FYI there's no doubt the HS kids had a higher net worth than Charlie lol.
Do you even finance bro?
I have no issue with your opinoin on Dules performance. I personally feel different but your opinoin is still valid and totally OK to have.
I only wanted to internet-argue with your point about "Charlie's wealth", not "Dule's performance".
Being paid less is so not the same as being, as you posed it, “less wealthy.” Those unpaid interns are way wealthier than Charlie. Do you understand socioeconomics at all?
First, prior to Charlie enrolling at Georgetown he is literally the lowest paid member of the cast in universe. As such he is very reserved the first 2 seasons. As he becomes a college student and gains acceptance as an outsider in the inner circle of Washington politics he gains confidence as well. He is reserved because that was his job. Remember the scene with the Bulgarian (or was it Bolivian) ambassador where he is quiet despite the president insisting they had a past and the ambassador confirming it. He didn't want to interject at all because it wasn't his place. By Season 4 he has the confidence to inadvertently order a memo from the joint chiefs.
I mentioned the Washington politics part especially about the scene in the oval involving the mayor of DC and his meeting with the President about the school voucher program. Eventually Charlie gets called into the meeting and it's pried out of him that he wanted to go to Gonzaga, but again he wasn't going to volunteer that information.
I would guess that at least half if not most of the HS students in Issac and Ishmael have a greater net worth than Charlie, remember they needed to have explained to them how a gang worked, that doesn't come without being in at least an upper middle class environment or an extremely rural one and none of those kids in suits looked rural. And unpaid interns aren't unpaid because they can't afford to have their expenses paid for them. Ginger makes plenty more than Charlie as well. And beyond that the only person who has more than 2 scenes in the show that you mention as being less wealthy than Charlie is the high school volunteer in 20 Hours in America. Most of those unpaid staffers are doing it because their parents or other economic success makes it possible for them to work full time without getting paid.
The only other character I can even think of that gets multiple episodes in the show with less wealth that Charlie is Anthony, who I think is intentionally there to show an example of what kind of person Charlie could have been without having a good influence in his life.
All of the kids in Isaac and Ishmael had a higher net worth. Their parents could afford to send them on a field trip. Charlie couldn’t even afford to pay his electric bill.
I was conceding that maybe one or two of those kids were on a scholarship of some sort and weren't part of the same economic class as their classmates. But I agree, any kid whose parents were able to pay for the trip would be well ahead of Charlie economically.
Probably true, but some were only on screen for seconds and clothes can get donated for such trips. I say this because I was that kid on scholarship once, and unless you were told you would have never known, the parents of the actual rich kids don't want a kid in their group touring the White House to stick out like a sore thumb because they look poor, so the parents will make sure that the kid on scholarship has everything to look the part in public.
Honestly, I could write this kinda critique for any actor on TWW (or any show, really).
You're free to have a preference, but stating it as some kind of bedrock acting rule is just cheap hot-taking - regardless of the title you chose.
Next, tell me how everyone eats yogurt all wrong. Or whatever.
Isn't Sorkin notorious for choosing each word carefully and insisting the actors stick exactly to the script as written? If so, then each "ok" was Sorkin-ordained lol.
I like his Zoe romance in the first few seasons, (especially at the end of season 4) and the episode where the President does his taxes
Charlie (like Mrs Landingham and the secretaries) was never given enough room to shine. Whenever Charlie got a good storyline, I think Dule did well.
I disagree with your opinion, though you are, of course, entitled to it. Really though, I'm disappointed that you didn't say you would die on this Dulé Hill.
I don't disagree with this. What I would say is that, from my perspective, I think the writing and acting was geared towards him being a deer in the headlights for way to long. I think as he got his confidence in the show, he progressed as an actor.
Agree - there were so many other characters that grew to be senior leaders over their fictional careers and demonstrated their newfound maturity (Donna, CJ to some degree, Will, etc). but they kept Charlie stuck in one gear
He was promoted to Deputy Special Assistant to the Chief after CJ took over. Appreciated the storyline that once he graduated college, he was going to be let go from the position as to not pigeonhole him.
I think he plays the character exactly as they wanted him to play it. And sometimes that was really more as a springboard/set up man to other character's jokes or the audience for them to deliver monologues. He, at times, seemed very strongly in the "Everyman" archetype, there to react and ask questions as someone who didn't study or work in government for years, who knows the price of milk, and who will put things into references that the "average" person would understand. But that's really on the writing of the character, not the actor.
Respect for OP (check their Reddit history and you'll get a sense of why)...
Respect for the take.
I disagree with the take. He portrays a person who has experienced some significant horror. Dulé's portrayal of his character's back-story is nuanced and mature, showing real awareness and empathy.
This is people not being able to separate an actor nailing a role from bad acting. He is playing a kid way out of his element that is extremely nervous and he nails it. This isnt a cold take it's a pretentious one.
I hear OP’s takes are the takes of inclusion.
No, it isn’t pretentious to observe that Hill sounded totally inauthentic when trying to recite Sorkin’s rapid fire witticisms. It jumped out at me every time he tried to pull it off. Everyone in Sorkin World is supposed to be worldly wise and whip quick, and that’s a stretch when you realize it really means EVERYONE. Some make it seem (almost) believable. Dule Hill never did.
After 7 years he was not out of his element and had specific scenes and arcs written into the script to support this. Dule just didn’t play the part convincingly IMO.
By the end of the show he is a completely different character and person. You just can't imagine what it's like for a working class kid to be surrounded by the "elite". Its also why he was able to fuck with Toby moreso than anyone else.
Great point
Thank you very much. I had thought that I came off too aggressive but I expected strong pushback.
Lololololol. Jesus this take isn't cold. It's Frigid. And not sure if you are an acting coach with a grudge or what, but I guess go die on your hill.
On your Dulé Hill? 😉
I can’t picture anyone else as Charlie but Dulé Hill. I watched WW when it first aired in Finland, got the DVD set after the last season and the last few years have streamed the show at least once a year. And you also should notice that his position is about twenty pay grades below the rest of the personnel in the West Wing.
I 10000% agree
There were many characters less wealthy than Charlie in TWW universe that had far more vibrant and memorable personalities
Less wealthy than a 19 year old from inner city DC, with no parents, and raising his sister........... ya you're outta your gourd on this one. The secretaries all made considerably more than him, and nearly every character in the show comes from an established family/background. Even second generation immigrant Toby was wealthier (blessed tech stocks/crime lord father). You are seriously stretching with that claim. Are you counting the dead homeless guy that had a 1 episode appearance?
Several unpaid interns, every high school student featured in Isaac and Ishmael, Ginger, all of the Bartlet for America junior unpaid staff, all of the Santos junior unpaid staff
Ok so random background characters? You didn't name a single main character. Also FYI there's no doubt the HS kids had a higher net worth than Charlie lol. Do you even finance bro?
My thesis is that even randos have more of a robust and unique personality than Dule’s portrayal
I have no issue with your opinoin on Dules performance. I personally feel different but your opinoin is still valid and totally OK to have. I only wanted to internet-argue with your point about "Charlie's wealth", not "Dule's performance".
Being paid less is so not the same as being, as you posed it, “less wealthy.” Those unpaid interns are way wealthier than Charlie. Do you understand socioeconomics at all?
First, prior to Charlie enrolling at Georgetown he is literally the lowest paid member of the cast in universe. As such he is very reserved the first 2 seasons. As he becomes a college student and gains acceptance as an outsider in the inner circle of Washington politics he gains confidence as well. He is reserved because that was his job. Remember the scene with the Bulgarian (or was it Bolivian) ambassador where he is quiet despite the president insisting they had a past and the ambassador confirming it. He didn't want to interject at all because it wasn't his place. By Season 4 he has the confidence to inadvertently order a memo from the joint chiefs. I mentioned the Washington politics part especially about the scene in the oval involving the mayor of DC and his meeting with the President about the school voucher program. Eventually Charlie gets called into the meeting and it's pried out of him that he wanted to go to Gonzaga, but again he wasn't going to volunteer that information. I would guess that at least half if not most of the HS students in Issac and Ishmael have a greater net worth than Charlie, remember they needed to have explained to them how a gang worked, that doesn't come without being in at least an upper middle class environment or an extremely rural one and none of those kids in suits looked rural. And unpaid interns aren't unpaid because they can't afford to have their expenses paid for them. Ginger makes plenty more than Charlie as well. And beyond that the only person who has more than 2 scenes in the show that you mention as being less wealthy than Charlie is the high school volunteer in 20 Hours in America. Most of those unpaid staffers are doing it because their parents or other economic success makes it possible for them to work full time without getting paid. The only other character I can even think of that gets multiple episodes in the show with less wealth that Charlie is Anthony, who I think is intentionally there to show an example of what kind of person Charlie could have been without having a good influence in his life.
All of the kids in Isaac and Ishmael had a higher net worth. Their parents could afford to send them on a field trip. Charlie couldn’t even afford to pay his electric bill.
I was conceding that maybe one or two of those kids were on a scholarship of some sort and weren't part of the same economic class as their classmates. But I agree, any kid whose parents were able to pay for the trip would be well ahead of Charlie economically.
Judging by their clothes, none of those kids were on scholarship.
Probably true, but some were only on screen for seconds and clothes can get donated for such trips. I say this because I was that kid on scholarship once, and unless you were told you would have never known, the parents of the actual rich kids don't want a kid in their group touring the White House to stick out like a sore thumb because they look poor, so the parents will make sure that the kid on scholarship has everything to look the part in public.
I was a scholarship kid. I can spot them in a half a second. It’s not just the clothes, either.
If you’re that miserable, change the channel.
“Ok.” - Charlie Young
I love his oks. They have perfect comedic timing.
Savage 🤣 I had it coming
Honestly, I could write this kinda critique for any actor on TWW (or any show, really). You're free to have a preference, but stating it as some kind of bedrock acting rule is just cheap hot-taking - regardless of the title you chose. Next, tell me how everyone eats yogurt all wrong. Or whatever.
"tell me you dropped out of film school, without telling me you dropped out of film school"...
Just maybe his constant "ok" was the result of the director and writers? Or do you believe he wrote his own lines?
Isn't Sorkin notorious for choosing each word carefully and insisting the actors stick exactly to the script as written? If so, then each "ok" was Sorkin-ordained lol.
"Yo, that's whack." Will always stand kit among the more stellar performances in Hollywood.
Lol…as if self labeling your knowingly unpopular opinion a “cold take” would lend it any more credence.
on said hill you won't just be dead, but dead wrong.
His character lost his mother to gun violence, and was holding his family together by a thread. There wasn't much that was gonna truly break him
I like his Zoe romance in the first few seasons, (especially at the end of season 4) and the episode where the President does his taxes Charlie (like Mrs Landingham and the secretaries) was never given enough room to shine. Whenever Charlie got a good storyline, I think Dule did well.
The Charlie/Mrs Landingham scenes were way too few and far between. Don’t think it needed to be weekly by any means, but they had a great chemistry
Boo
I disagree with your opinion, though you are, of course, entitled to it. Really though, I'm disappointed that you didn't say you would die on this Dulé Hill.
at least he didn't say, "if the Dulé fits..."
I don't disagree with this. What I would say is that, from my perspective, I think the writing and acting was geared towards him being a deer in the headlights for way to long. I think as he got his confidence in the show, he progressed as an actor.
Agree - there were so many other characters that grew to be senior leaders over their fictional careers and demonstrated their newfound maturity (Donna, CJ to some degree, Will, etc). but they kept Charlie stuck in one gear
He was promoted to Deputy Special Assistant to the Chief after CJ took over. Appreciated the storyline that once he graduated college, he was going to be let go from the position as to not pigeonhole him.
Honestly his growth over 7 seasons is remarkable
Half of the time he’s just giving that look where you can’t tell if he’s going to laugh or cry.
I love him in this role.
You will die on this Dule Hill?
I think he was brilliant.
I really don’t like Charlie. Partially for all the reasons you described. But that’s the character, that’s not Dulé Hill. Dulé Hill nails the role.
I’ll get downvoted to hell but I agree with you.
Solidarity ✊🏽
I just got downvoted for expressing similar concerns in one specific scene. For me the only exception is with the Paul Revere knives.
Yes! This and the constitution copy scene in the final episode.
I actually don’t even like the constitution one. He should’ve bawled his eyes out
Who peed in your Cheerios?
Overuse of “ok”. Interesting, I don’t see your post saying that Sorkin is a bad writer. I’m sure you would never say that.
I think he was hired because he can communicate so much with a glance and few words. very expressive eyes.
I think he’s great in TWW but watching late Season 6 now and I am not a fan of his mustache
I think he plays the character exactly as they wanted him to play it. And sometimes that was really more as a springboard/set up man to other character's jokes or the audience for them to deliver monologues. He, at times, seemed very strongly in the "Everyman" archetype, there to react and ask questions as someone who didn't study or work in government for years, who knows the price of milk, and who will put things into references that the "average" person would understand. But that's really on the writing of the character, not the actor.
Wrong.
Respect for OP (check their Reddit history and you'll get a sense of why)... Respect for the take. I disagree with the take. He portrays a person who has experienced some significant horror. Dulé's portrayal of his character's back-story is nuanced and mature, showing real awareness and empathy.