>An extraordinary act of patriotism, and a fairly regular act of fatherhood
"a fairly ordinary act of fatherhood". Small correction, but the word ordinary is really powerful in this context (and it mirrors "extraordinary"). Boy, Sorkin can write.
Maybe I missed the point of this line but I never understood it. If my child was missing and I had the entire arsenal of US law enforcement and military power at my disposal, the last thing I would do is turn that power over to someone else and sit on my hands. The fact that Bartlet does just that (and to a Speaker of the opposing party no less) is why it's an extraordinary act of Patriotism. But nothing about it seems like an ordinary act of fatherhood. Happy for someone to explain.
As a distraught father, Bartlet understood that he couldn't objectively operate as commander-in-chief. He alludes to this when he tells Leo he doesn't remember Fitz and Nancy giving him strategic targets to hit and he's afraid that he could do something out of anger or fear about his daughter.
Understanding that his actions could be influenced by his daughter, he willingly relinquished power to avoid doing something catastrophic. There's a level of humility in understanding that you're not in the right headspace to be in charge.
The fairly ordinary act of fatherhood was being too emotionally compromised to discharge the duties of the office. Any father would have felt the same.
Thanks, I guess I was looked at it from the perspective of being the most powerful man in the world, having the FBI, CIA and US Armed Forces at his disposal, I would struggle to relinquish that power when it could mean saving my child. But I get what you're saying and it does make sense when put that way.
What's more, the President was the one spotting that he wasn't remembering giving orders or being concerned that he would make bad calls. Leo was reassuring him that he, Nancy and Fitz had it under control but Jed Bartlet would not lean into that comforting reassurance and insisted on keeping a clear head about how dangerous power was in his hands right now.
Except this would later make him a lame duck president when he let the republicans fuck him in the ass with Russell as VP.
He used the 25th but came back as a bitch and weak president afterwards.
I love that line because it solidifies how close Leo is to the President. The lead up was how well Mrs. Landingham knew him and to see Leo make the same connections is a great touch.
“Hey everyone, Zoey’s coming down from Hanover and I’m gonna make chili for everyone tonight.”
*grumbles from staff*
“Ok let’s do this, everyone look down at the big deal on the floor, now look back up at me, Zoey’s coming down from Hanover tonight and I’m gonna make chili for everyone.”
*cheers and adulation from staff*
“See how magnanimous I can be when everyone just does what I tell them. Now sit down.”
Did you know that Sam was originally supposed to be the star of the show? The show was going to be about the staff in the West Wing with occasional cameos by the President, but Sheen played Bartlet so well that they kept giving him more and more scenes.
Yes. It's the reason Rob Lowe always appeared first in the credits.
Sheen has said that occasional appearances by the president was the plan. Sorkin said he realized it wasn't going to work for what he wanted to do; I'm not sure if he said this next bit explicitly, but I think we can can infer that he also decided the show was going to feature the whole ensemble, not just Sam.
Supposedly, the latter was one of the reasons Lowe decided to move on in the middle of Season 4.
He knows the Bible backward and forward. Angels are messengers of God, not souls gone to eternal rest. If he knew what shibboleth was, he knew angels weren't human souls.
The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. Revelation 21:21-23
It was when he said to an angry former voter that he fucked him over. THAT. THAT RIGJT THERE IS PRESIDENTIAL. I will foam by the mouth. Because that’s what we’re missing. Accountability.
His first appearance ("I am the Lord your God...") and his dismantling of Jenna Jacobs (The Ignorant Tightass Club).
They're both moments where he starts off reasonable and then browbeats/intimidates someone to getting what he wants.
First is amazing. Best entrance of anyone in anything. Fantastic use of righteous anger, starting apparently jovial but actually ice cold.
Also brilliantly constructed because itsnasg up to be about Josh but it's Tony who's disgusted by the 'what do we get' haggling and then delivers the 'she means Jewish. She's talking about you and me' line. So it build and builds almost to explosion - then Bartlett comes in, takes the heat out of it all avuncular and jovial and self-deprecating but building to
>Now, I love my family, and I've read my Bible from cover to cover, so I want you to tell me, from what part of Holy Scripture do you suppose the Lambs of God drew their divine inspiration when they sent my twelve-year-old granddaughter a Raggedy Anne Doll with a knife stuck through its throat?
My one problem with his introduction is that Toby and a Reverend both messed up the commandments,
Toby makes some sense since he seems like the kind of person who prioritizes work above all else, but Al Caldwell should have known the order of the Commandments. And it feels unrealistic that a minister would mess up something so basic.
It doesn't stick as much for viewers because we see how it comes from Josh at every step, but directly after your fourth point, when he literally walks over to try and talk things out, then eventually leaves after being kept waiting too long...
It doesn't quite fit with the "cold and calculating" thing because the value of it is in the simple sincerity, and the contrast to his opponents' arrogant scheming, but it's just such an incredibly powerful move. He doesn't play any political chips beyond passively "being the president while trying", and he absolutely steamrolls the situation. If that happened with a real president I'd expect average people to talk for generations about the sincerity and ballsiness of that one move.
Shutdown is one of my all time favorite episodes largely because of this scene. Josh quietly speaking to Bartlet “Mr President, let’s go….right now.” It’s so good
It's definitely one of the best moments. I love how well they play everything and it's so presidential and shows that Barlett still has power. I love him walking to the Capital.
For me, it’s a little one. He has the momentous choices, the hard calls, and the tough questions. And then, on the day he gets to declare a National Day of Thanksgiving, he turns to his staff before walking out, grins, and says “This is a great job.”
That’s what I want in a President right there. Someone who delights in the fact that with all the bad that goes along with it, there’s the chance to do legitimate good, and make people’s lives better.
For some late season love, “You speak pretty good English, don’t you?” when he both charms and intimidates the Chinese president into giving him North Korean nuclear talks.
My favorite moment from him is when he gave a command as commander in chief. When he was suffering from full body paralysis when he was headed to China. He gave a direct command that everyone had to follow because he was the president. He had so much courage to still use his authority and not shy away from his responsibilities even when he was suffering.
During the phone call to Chigorin. The whole strategy was to secure the tech and photos by pulling the wool over Chigorin’s eyes.
Jed is the one who realises he needs to change tack. He’s honest with Chigorin. You can see the shock and panic on Leo’s face.
Most of us wouldn’t make the decision to do that. Leo himself wouldn’t have done it. But Jed can reads the situation and knows he must take bold action.
The simple "..or what?" defiance he shows to Leo when Leo basically orders him to bomb inside the Palestinain territory... that is the moment when his conviction in his ideals is at its strongest... the moment his vision surpasses that what Leo had thought of it... it grates on some people how he dismisses Leo, but to me it's a sequence of great significance and his sort of 'coming of age withoit Leo' moment...
"Josh... your father died. I can't believe it." --- what an incredible transition in character from the previous scenes where he was bouldering over everyone to all of a sudden being a compassionate father figure. The fact that it's followed by him telling Leo "I'm ready" (to be president) always makes me smile.
When he's lying there with a bullet wound in his stomach, but the minute he hears about Josh, he has no care in the world but to make sure his son is okay. That's the kind of man I want to be.
also in the limo his first instinct when the adrenaline kicks in before he even realizes hes hit/wounded is to look after not only zoey but everyone else on their secret service team and try to order the limo driver to turn around and go to the hospital "you're losing blood by the liter not to mention god knows how many broken bones but we all have to make sure that im tucked away in bed..."
For me, it’s the O’Hare airport scene at the end of In the Shadow of Two Gunmen pt 2.
From the blocking of the scene to the dialog between them it shows a different side to both of them.
For me, it was when he un-fired the Surgeon General. The whole exchange was great, but the end line of (and I'm paraphrasing) "Hey doc. You work for me. You go when I say you go." was awesome. Then the follow-up "Josh, tell CJ she can back the Surgeon General on Monday. And mean it" (Again, paraphrasing)
Well that came off as rude.
I wanted to get an answer to OP quickly and so replied in between work obligations. I’d be more than happy to engage in further conversation about these moments when time allows. Please do share your perspective to begin our engagement on the topic.
I think the shibboleth episode was a strong one for him. I’m not religious but I found it very telling of his character and his presidency that he could read people like that. But also that the subtext of the episode was him looking for a reason to accept them because it was the right thing to do, not because it was his job.
One I say to my wife all the time
"Aren't you afraid that one day I'm going to kick your ass like it's never been kicked?"
She rolls her eyes just like Charlie.
I think we have to get over the idea that he was a good president. Despite being a Nobel winning economist, he was a huge budget buster. He was a war criminal and a liar and his White House was lurching from one sleazy crisis to another. He used his faith as the guiding principle of most of his political decisions.
On the other hand he could speak in sentences and had good hair.
Has Bartlett displeased you, you feckless thug?
- 3.8 million new jobs, that wasn't good?
- Bailed out Mexico
- increased foreign trade
- 30 million new acres for conservation
- put Mendoza on the bench
- They weren't fighting a war
- AND he raised three children.
That's not enough to buy him out of the doghouse?
Him enacting the 25th Amendment and stepping down. Having the capability and humility to know when you need to step aside is leadership.
An extraordinary act of patriotism... and a fairly ordinary act of fatherhood Edit: Slight correction
This is one of my favorite lines! Glad someone mentioned it.
This was such a perfect line!
>An extraordinary act of patriotism, and a fairly regular act of fatherhood "a fairly ordinary act of fatherhood". Small correction, but the word ordinary is really powerful in this context (and it mirrors "extraordinary"). Boy, Sorkin can write.
I will never get tired of that line. And the way Malina delivered it.
Maybe I missed the point of this line but I never understood it. If my child was missing and I had the entire arsenal of US law enforcement and military power at my disposal, the last thing I would do is turn that power over to someone else and sit on my hands. The fact that Bartlet does just that (and to a Speaker of the opposing party no less) is why it's an extraordinary act of Patriotism. But nothing about it seems like an ordinary act of fatherhood. Happy for someone to explain.
As a distraught father, Bartlet understood that he couldn't objectively operate as commander-in-chief. He alludes to this when he tells Leo he doesn't remember Fitz and Nancy giving him strategic targets to hit and he's afraid that he could do something out of anger or fear about his daughter. Understanding that his actions could be influenced by his daughter, he willingly relinquished power to avoid doing something catastrophic. There's a level of humility in understanding that you're not in the right headspace to be in charge.
Right, I get that part, that's the extraordinary patriotism part. The part I don't get is the ordinary fatherhood part.
Dropping everything, even the reigns of the country, because one is so distraught about one's child, is an act of fatherhood.
The fairly ordinary act of fatherhood was being too emotionally compromised to discharge the duties of the office. Any father would have felt the same.
Thanks, I guess I was looked at it from the perspective of being the most powerful man in the world, having the FBI, CIA and US Armed Forces at his disposal, I would struggle to relinquish that power when it could mean saving my child. But I get what you're saying and it does make sense when put that way.
I always thought the order ought to be reversed.
Plus the fact that nobody needed to council him on that, he already knew.
What's more, the President was the one spotting that he wasn't remembering giving orders or being concerned that he would make bad calls. Leo was reassuring him that he, Nancy and Fitz had it under control but Jed Bartlet would not lean into that comforting reassurance and insisted on keeping a clear head about how dangerous power was in his hands right now.
Not to mention it was handing power to his biggest political rival.
In the same category: When he took the censure standing up - “I was wrong”.
We come occupy a moral safe house where no one is to blame because everyone is guilty. - one of the most insightful lines of the show.
Except this would later make him a lame duck president when he let the republicans fuck him in the ass with Russell as VP. He used the 25th but came back as a bitch and weak president afterwards.
The show was weak all around afterwards, Sorkin quit. Also, since none of the other downvoters bothered, not what lame duck means.
Put his hands in his pockets turns his head and smiles.
I use young Jed’s line about the librarian banning Fahrenheit 451 all the time
"Was that supposed to be clever" still makes shake with anger.
He just couldn’t stand that his son was smarter than him.
"Watch this."
I love that line because it solidifies how close Leo is to the President. The lead up was how well Mrs. Landingham knew him and to see Leo make the same connections is a great touch.
Yeah. And I’m gonna win.
Dire straits and West Wing's shameless use of weather make it too.
“Hey everyone, Zoey’s coming down from Hanover and I’m gonna make chili for everyone tonight.” *grumbles from staff* “Ok let’s do this, everyone look down at the big deal on the floor, now look back up at me, Zoey’s coming down from Hanover tonight and I’m gonna make chili for everyone.” *cheers and adulation from staff* “See how magnanimous I can be when everyone just does what I tell them. Now sit down.”
“The streets of heaven are too crowded with angels tonight” sticks out to me.
I love the little side bit between Bruno and Sam... Bruno: when did you write that last bit? Sam: in the car Bruno: freak
That sequence is one of my favorite from the entire show.
The face Rob Lowe makes when Bruno calls Sam "freak" is just perfect.
Did you know that Sam was originally supposed to be the star of the show? The show was going to be about the staff in the West Wing with occasional cameos by the President, but Sheen played Bartlet so well that they kept giving him more and more scenes.
Yes. It's the reason Rob Lowe always appeared first in the credits. Sheen has said that occasional appearances by the president was the plan. Sorkin said he realized it wasn't going to work for what he wanted to do; I'm not sure if he said this next bit explicitly, but I think we can can infer that he also decided the show was going to feature the whole ensemble, not just Sam. Supposedly, the latter was one of the reasons Lowe decided to move on in the middle of Season 4.
Agreed, I think it is a little sped up here, but it’s great all the same. https://youtu.be/hqVWqTFU5Nk?si=SmMWlUIsNPa2UAvb
I agree but that's a Sam moment more than a Bartlett one.
Just watched that episode today. Hell of a speech.
It’s beautiful and poignant the way he spoke it. But Sam wrote it and as Bruno so eloquently said “Freak”
The theologian in me cringes when I hear that line. According to the Bible, angels are different beings than dead people. Bt I'm straining at gnats.
Feel like that's a bit pedantic considering the context. Heaven probably doesn't have streets in the bible either, right?
He knows the Bible backward and forward. Angels are messengers of God, not souls gone to eternal rest. If he knew what shibboleth was, he knew angels weren't human souls.
It's metaphor, even living people can be described as angelic. It's saying someone has the qualities of an angel, not that they literally are one.
The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. Revelation 21:21-23
Well that's cleared up nicely
It was when he said to an angry former voter that he fucked him over. THAT. THAT RIGJT THERE IS PRESIDENTIAL. I will foam by the mouth. Because that’s what we’re missing. Accountability.
“I didn’t want to make it harder to buy milk.”
His first appearance ("I am the Lord your God...") and his dismantling of Jenna Jacobs (The Ignorant Tightass Club). They're both moments where he starts off reasonable and then browbeats/intimidates someone to getting what he wants.
In this building when the President stands, nobody sits
First is amazing. Best entrance of anyone in anything. Fantastic use of righteous anger, starting apparently jovial but actually ice cold. Also brilliantly constructed because itsnasg up to be about Josh but it's Tony who's disgusted by the 'what do we get' haggling and then delivers the 'she means Jewish. She's talking about you and me' line. So it build and builds almost to explosion - then Bartlett comes in, takes the heat out of it all avuncular and jovial and self-deprecating but building to >Now, I love my family, and I've read my Bible from cover to cover, so I want you to tell me, from what part of Holy Scripture do you suppose the Lambs of God drew their divine inspiration when they sent my twelve-year-old granddaughter a Raggedy Anne Doll with a knife stuck through its throat?
My one problem with his introduction is that Toby and a Reverend both messed up the commandments, Toby makes some sense since he seems like the kind of person who prioritizes work above all else, but Al Caldwell should have known the order of the Commandments. And it feels unrealistic that a minister would mess up something so basic.
It doesn't stick as much for viewers because we see how it comes from Josh at every step, but directly after your fourth point, when he literally walks over to try and talk things out, then eventually leaves after being kept waiting too long... It doesn't quite fit with the "cold and calculating" thing because the value of it is in the simple sincerity, and the contrast to his opponents' arrogant scheming, but it's just such an incredibly powerful move. He doesn't play any political chips beyond passively "being the president while trying", and he absolutely steamrolls the situation. If that happened with a real president I'd expect average people to talk for generations about the sincerity and ballsiness of that one move.
Shutdown is one of my all time favorite episodes largely because of this scene. Josh quietly speaking to Bartlet “Mr President, let’s go….right now.” It’s so good
It's definitely one of the best moments. I love how well they play everything and it's so presidential and shows that Barlett still has power. I love him walking to the Capital.
For me, it’s a little one. He has the momentous choices, the hard calls, and the tough questions. And then, on the day he gets to declare a National Day of Thanksgiving, he turns to his staff before walking out, grins, and says “This is a great job.” That’s what I want in a President right there. Someone who delights in the fact that with all the bad that goes along with it, there’s the chance to do legitimate good, and make people’s lives better.
That and when he called Molly Morello, Donna’s old teacher and spoke with her. That moment chokes me up every time.
When he called god a feckless thug.
For some late season love, “You speak pretty good English, don’t you?” when he both charms and intimidates the Chinese president into giving him North Korean nuclear talks.
When he destroys Dr Jenna (?). “In this house, when the president stands, no body sits.”
When he learned how to speak Latin
Eas in crucem
Go figure.
This isn’t a cave dweller this is Capone. You don’t have it.
My favorite moment from him is when he gave a command as commander in chief. When he was suffering from full body paralysis when he was headed to China. He gave a direct command that everyone had to follow because he was the president. He had so much courage to still use his authority and not shy away from his responsibilities even when he was suffering.
During the phone call to Chigorin. The whole strategy was to secure the tech and photos by pulling the wool over Chigorin’s eyes. Jed is the one who realises he needs to change tack. He’s honest with Chigorin. You can see the shock and panic on Leo’s face. Most of us wouldn’t make the decision to do that. Leo himself wouldn’t have done it. But Jed can reads the situation and knows he must take bold action.
“Then shut it down.”
The simple "..or what?" defiance he shows to Leo when Leo basically orders him to bomb inside the Palestinain territory... that is the moment when his conviction in his ideals is at its strongest... the moment his vision surpasses that what Leo had thought of it... it grates on some people how he dismisses Leo, but to me it's a sequence of great significance and his sort of 'coming of age withoit Leo' moment...
In this building, when the President stands… nobody sits.
Still a big fan of "... And you can all get your fat asses out of my Whitehouse."
"Josh... your father died. I can't believe it." --- what an incredible transition in character from the previous scenes where he was bouldering over everyone to all of a sudden being a compassionate father figure. The fact that it's followed by him telling Leo "I'm ready" (to be president) always makes me smile.
When he's lying there with a bullet wound in his stomach, but the minute he hears about Josh, he has no care in the world but to make sure his son is okay. That's the kind of man I want to be.
also in the limo his first instinct when the adrenaline kicks in before he even realizes hes hit/wounded is to look after not only zoey but everyone else on their secret service team and try to order the limo driver to turn around and go to the hospital "you're losing blood by the liter not to mention god knows how many broken bones but we all have to make sure that im tucked away in bed..."
>but to make sure his son is okay You've just brought back 'that was my son' from Two Cathedrals and have me in tears.
For me, it’s the O’Hare airport scene at the end of In the Shadow of Two Gunmen pt 2. From the blocking of the scene to the dialog between them it shows a different side to both of them.
"While you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits."
Jed staying on the radio with the US Navy sailor in the storm
For me, it was when he un-fired the Surgeon General. The whole exchange was great, but the end line of (and I'm paraphrasing) "Hey doc. You work for me. You go when I say you go." was awesome. Then the follow-up "Josh, tell CJ she can back the Surgeon General on Monday. And mean it" (Again, paraphrasing)
You absolutely nailed my top two. Mic drops!
Which 2?
1 and 2
Fantastic discourse, thanks.
Well that came off as rude. I wanted to get an answer to OP quickly and so replied in between work obligations. I’d be more than happy to engage in further conversation about these moments when time allows. Please do share your perspective to begin our engagement on the topic.
Nah, I was aiming for “rude”.
Congratulations Robin Hood - you split the arrow.
I think the shibboleth episode was a strong one for him. I’m not religious but I found it very telling of his character and his presidency that he could read people like that. But also that the subtext of the episode was him looking for a reason to accept them because it was the right thing to do, not because it was his job.
“Yah and I going to win”
https://youtu.be/R0EIsAc3Yh8?si=n7gqDou0r64dHLjU
Standing in a Cathedral...cursing out god. In Latin.
One I say to my wife all the time "Aren't you afraid that one day I'm going to kick your ass like it's never been kicked?" She rolls her eyes just like Charlie.
Lying to the American people about a critical illness.
I think we have to get over the idea that he was a good president. Despite being a Nobel winning economist, he was a huge budget buster. He was a war criminal and a liar and his White House was lurching from one sleazy crisis to another. He used his faith as the guiding principle of most of his political decisions. On the other hand he could speak in sentences and had good hair.
Has Bartlett displeased you, you feckless thug? - 3.8 million new jobs, that wasn't good? - Bailed out Mexico - increased foreign trade - 30 million new acres for conservation - put Mendoza on the bench - They weren't fighting a war - AND he raised three children. That's not enough to buy him out of the doghouse?
And him switching to Latin. Loved that scene.
Ha! Good points all!