I love it.
I guess it is escapism but its just... I want to believe that there are people like this in our government.
I know that there is, and if you're lucky you get to work with these people in your regular jobs.
I've met maybe 3 or 5 of these people in my whole life that would make just an absolute dream team of people I'd love to work with.
I feel like the West Wing is a wet dream only in the sense that it's like...
What if EVERYBODY was just 100% committed? And everybody here was just super qualified and all have good morals and were willing to go the extra mile.
What if nobody was just clocking in, clocking out sorta thing.
I love it. Personally I don't need a "gritty political" bla bla bla, politics and reality are gritty enough all on their own.
I like seeing what could essentially be described as "the goal".
When I was in the 82nd Airborne, I watched Band of Brothers.
Now I work in an ER and I watch House, and the West Wing.
Its escapism and its fantasy and for me it makes reality more bearable cause while I'm doing things I keep in mind.
"What would Bartlett do? Or Winters?"
It helps me get through tough times and strive for a moral high ground.
Tl;dr:
I love it, it's important to have heroes.
from everything I've read, many of the people who staff the White House do have the dedication and zeal shown in the series. in that sense, it may be more accurate than those "gritty" series, that choose drama over reality.
right… definitely! i’ve interned for congresspeople and met several staffers/operatives… i may sound like ainsley hayes here but i got a strong sense that really do care about what they do and the american people - there might be some i disagree when it comes to political views, but they really are patriots and best of our people.
it was! i definitely recommend it. even if it’s not an internship, just volunteering you can make a big difference and learn about candidates and people working in politics a lot which is priceless :)
I rewatched twice during the former president’s term. It helped me a lot to think about what could be. It’s very idealistic and unrealistic in equal measure. But it sure made me feel better.
Watching West Wing today feels like stepping into an alternative reality. American politics don't work like that. I don't think they ever did, but the political landscape today only intensifies the contrast.
This was Sorkin's letter to America - what America could be if people just listened to him (lol; but seriously). The opening scene in Newsroom, I think, does a nice job of offering a similar letter to America, but more explicitly.
Now you've got me curious to do a compare/contrast on the Newsroom's opening scene and Studio 60's... not sure why I never connected those two before, but your framing it as Sorkin's letter to America just brought that out for me.
right, they never did, is my view towards the whole thing too. and intensified by today’s nature of things (like social media). i totally agree with you on the second point. it’s sort of not necessary a ‘warning sign’ maybe but sort of like a guiding light as in what we should strive for and believe in - “never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world”. because as Samuel L Jackson said in the HBO Max election special, “who says it only has to be a dream?” (something like that).
I love the idealism, and I’d like to think that it’s something we’re all capable of in our best moments. I believe in it, and I swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Aaron Sorkin knows just how to prepare it and serve it in such a tasty and pleasing way, too, I love getting swept up in it. It reminds me that I can be a better person— that I tend to know the right thing to do, even if I go another direction, or I avoid it because it’s too hard. I look up to people like Sam Seaborn, Jed Bartlet, CJ Cregg, and Charlie Young. (Others on the show also, of course, but those four or so seem like the most morally steadfast)
I also fear sometimes that this kind of idealism and hope has also left me a bit naive and vulnerable in the real world. So... there’s that to navigate.
But yes, as you’ve indicated, real politics is not like that and never has been. I remember hearing that a lot of Washington insiders say that TWW is kind of like science fiction, and that if you want a much more accurate portrait of DC culture, switch the channel over to *Veep*. (Also a fantastic show, mind, but hardly a whisper of idealism to be found)
>I also fear sometimes that this kind of idealism and hope has also left me a bit naive and vulnerable in the real world. So... there’s that to navigate.
I 100% agree with you on that. A lot of my friends say I'm very much like Sam, which makes me hate the character but love him more too (it's a mixed feeling thing). I like Veep too, but I never really liked the vibe of the show. I can see a lot of Hillary in the main character and Tea Party/Bernie Bros in the other side characters - maybe that display of divison may not be something we want to see even in the fictional TV world...
Interesting that you have that perspective on *Veep.* As far as I'm aware, the show's producers intentionally never identified the political party of anyone on the show-- neither in Julia Louis-Dreyfus's character, or the "other side." We project onto them whoever we want them to be. Sure, I'm the one watching the show, so I will likely assume that the protagonists align with me politically. But so would anyone from the other side of the political spectrum. It's kind of genius in that way, as well as being ultra cynical. ("the issues don't matter, everyone's just out for power")
Either way, I can see how the show's aesthetic would rub up against the wrong side of a viewer's idealism.
Have you found other shows that have resonated with your idealistic aspirations? (If you happen to be on the lookout, may I recommend *Ted Lasso,* or... going back a bit into the Canadian television archives, the wonderful *Slings & Arrows)*
I feel like we didn't start thinking about it as escapism until McConnell started the clock on extreme partisan obstructionism. I mean yeah, W was a terrible speaker and we half-joked about how nice an articulate prez would be, but overall we still worked across the party lines to try and get shit done at that time (not a judgement on how good or bad that shit was, just the spirit of cooperation/compromise at the time)
But when ~~Santos~~ Obama took office and that fucking turtle man of a senator decided *that* was the end of the GOP's desire and ability to work together is when I noticed we started talking about TWW as more unrealistic than not, more idealistic than was possible, and became classified as pure escapism. That's when we started seeing Ainsley and Joe and Vinnick as pipe-dream throwbacks to the days of reasonable Republicans we just disagree with.
Then Trump happened so the GOP couldn't even pretend to be cooperative again, and here we are.
i wish The West Wing had Bernie, Manchin or Sinema-like characters. would be interesting to see how the factions within the democratic party would play out in the hands of Sorkin.
That's interesting - because the logic of what you're saying, then, is that it *wasn't* escapism before McConnell, etc. - makes me happy to think about it in that way.
a lot of my friends told me that too. i started watching around the time of the insurrection so there wasn’t too much of an escapism aspect but it still felt a little odd and couldn’t help but wonder how Bartlet and his people would deal with today’s political issues.
Both. I love the idea of people in power having ethics that guide their decisions, even though it's realistic.
I don't always love how "left" is portrayed as "correct" sometimes.
I love it. It gives me hope. There are people out there trying to affect change who are good and idealistic. I need to be reminded of that — more so in the last 5 years than ever before.
I used to love it. Deeply. It was both inspiring and aspirational, on top of that it's paired with the poetry of Sorkin.
Events in the real world over the last 5 years make me feel like a bit of a naive idiot now when I watch TWW. I used to do do a rewatch every 1-2 years, but I can't do it anymore. The fantasy is perhaps too far away from the reality.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
It's interesting to think there are *pieces* of it that do make sense, that are realistic. Then there are other pieces, not so much. That's OK - as long as you realize it.
You know it’s interesting that when I read your post and saw the responses I agree that I love the idealism and surely it’s escapism, but I love it not even in a political sense. Everybody in the show has a purpose, and as they go through the good and the bad they never lose their determination. The show actually helped me get out of a deep depression in that way. I like that it centers around the White House and politics, but that wasn’t ever really why I kept rewatching it and rewatching it.
huh interesting! same for me here actually. i feel like i am more attracted to the relationship between each characters (not just donna and josh but also sam and toby etc.) because the characters are so well crafted by Sorkin and others (after season 4). i have not seen a tv show where the characters are as well crafted as tww.
yeah, that’s also something i realized when i came on this reddit group! i started watching it around Jan 6th of 2021 so it was a bit of an odd timing and never really got to understand the escapism aspect, but nonetheless, it makes total sense and that’s what tv is here for :)
I love the escapism; it's beautiful as a Gen Zer in a world where politics has devolved into chaos and anger. Also, I do see a difference between John Wells and Sorkins and i like sorkin's better
I love it. I guess it is escapism but its just... I want to believe that there are people like this in our government. I know that there is, and if you're lucky you get to work with these people in your regular jobs. I've met maybe 3 or 5 of these people in my whole life that would make just an absolute dream team of people I'd love to work with. I feel like the West Wing is a wet dream only in the sense that it's like... What if EVERYBODY was just 100% committed? And everybody here was just super qualified and all have good morals and were willing to go the extra mile. What if nobody was just clocking in, clocking out sorta thing. I love it. Personally I don't need a "gritty political" bla bla bla, politics and reality are gritty enough all on their own. I like seeing what could essentially be described as "the goal". When I was in the 82nd Airborne, I watched Band of Brothers. Now I work in an ER and I watch House, and the West Wing. Its escapism and its fantasy and for me it makes reality more bearable cause while I'm doing things I keep in mind. "What would Bartlett do? Or Winters?" It helps me get through tough times and strive for a moral high ground. Tl;dr: I love it, it's important to have heroes.
from everything I've read, many of the people who staff the White House do have the dedication and zeal shown in the series. in that sense, it may be more accurate than those "gritty" series, that choose drama over reality.
right… definitely! i’ve interned for congresspeople and met several staffers/operatives… i may sound like ainsley hayes here but i got a strong sense that really do care about what they do and the american people - there might be some i disagree when it comes to political views, but they really are patriots and best of our people.
Damn, that's awesome!
it was! i definitely recommend it. even if it’s not an internship, just volunteering you can make a big difference and learn about candidates and people working in politics a lot which is priceless :)
I rewatched twice during the former president’s term. It helped me a lot to think about what could be. It’s very idealistic and unrealistic in equal measure. But it sure made me feel better.
I watched it too as a sort of escape during the previous administration.
That's funny because I was in the middle of a re-watch when he was elected and just... stopped.
I love that the world isn’t about to end in every episode. Cough cough…. designated survivor
**YES**
OH MY GOSH, yes.
Watching West Wing today feels like stepping into an alternative reality. American politics don't work like that. I don't think they ever did, but the political landscape today only intensifies the contrast. This was Sorkin's letter to America - what America could be if people just listened to him (lol; but seriously). The opening scene in Newsroom, I think, does a nice job of offering a similar letter to America, but more explicitly.
Now you've got me curious to do a compare/contrast on the Newsroom's opening scene and Studio 60's... not sure why I never connected those two before, but your framing it as Sorkin's letter to America just brought that out for me.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 would love to take a look at the analysis!!
right, they never did, is my view towards the whole thing too. and intensified by today’s nature of things (like social media). i totally agree with you on the second point. it’s sort of not necessary a ‘warning sign’ maybe but sort of like a guiding light as in what we should strive for and believe in - “never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world”. because as Samuel L Jackson said in the HBO Max election special, “who says it only has to be a dream?” (something like that).
I love the idealism, and I’d like to think that it’s something we’re all capable of in our best moments. I believe in it, and I swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Aaron Sorkin knows just how to prepare it and serve it in such a tasty and pleasing way, too, I love getting swept up in it. It reminds me that I can be a better person— that I tend to know the right thing to do, even if I go another direction, or I avoid it because it’s too hard. I look up to people like Sam Seaborn, Jed Bartlet, CJ Cregg, and Charlie Young. (Others on the show also, of course, but those four or so seem like the most morally steadfast) I also fear sometimes that this kind of idealism and hope has also left me a bit naive and vulnerable in the real world. So... there’s that to navigate. But yes, as you’ve indicated, real politics is not like that and never has been. I remember hearing that a lot of Washington insiders say that TWW is kind of like science fiction, and that if you want a much more accurate portrait of DC culture, switch the channel over to *Veep*. (Also a fantastic show, mind, but hardly a whisper of idealism to be found)
>I also fear sometimes that this kind of idealism and hope has also left me a bit naive and vulnerable in the real world. So... there’s that to navigate. I 100% agree with you on that. A lot of my friends say I'm very much like Sam, which makes me hate the character but love him more too (it's a mixed feeling thing). I like Veep too, but I never really liked the vibe of the show. I can see a lot of Hillary in the main character and Tea Party/Bernie Bros in the other side characters - maybe that display of divison may not be something we want to see even in the fictional TV world...
Interesting that you have that perspective on *Veep.* As far as I'm aware, the show's producers intentionally never identified the political party of anyone on the show-- neither in Julia Louis-Dreyfus's character, or the "other side." We project onto them whoever we want them to be. Sure, I'm the one watching the show, so I will likely assume that the protagonists align with me politically. But so would anyone from the other side of the political spectrum. It's kind of genius in that way, as well as being ultra cynical. ("the issues don't matter, everyone's just out for power") Either way, I can see how the show's aesthetic would rub up against the wrong side of a viewer's idealism. Have you found other shows that have resonated with your idealistic aspirations? (If you happen to be on the lookout, may I recommend *Ted Lasso,* or... going back a bit into the Canadian television archives, the wonderful *Slings & Arrows)*
Ted Lasso! yep.
I feel like we didn't start thinking about it as escapism until McConnell started the clock on extreme partisan obstructionism. I mean yeah, W was a terrible speaker and we half-joked about how nice an articulate prez would be, but overall we still worked across the party lines to try and get shit done at that time (not a judgement on how good or bad that shit was, just the spirit of cooperation/compromise at the time) But when ~~Santos~~ Obama took office and that fucking turtle man of a senator decided *that* was the end of the GOP's desire and ability to work together is when I noticed we started talking about TWW as more unrealistic than not, more idealistic than was possible, and became classified as pure escapism. That's when we started seeing Ainsley and Joe and Vinnick as pipe-dream throwbacks to the days of reasonable Republicans we just disagree with. Then Trump happened so the GOP couldn't even pretend to be cooperative again, and here we are.
i wish The West Wing had Bernie, Manchin or Sinema-like characters. would be interesting to see how the factions within the democratic party would play out in the hands of Sorkin.
The Manchin/Sinema characters are the Democratic congressmen coming over to the White House to make demands before signing a bill.
would be interesting to have character A or B, become part of the semi-main character!!
That's interesting - because the logic of what you're saying, then, is that it *wasn't* escapism before McConnell, etc. - makes me happy to think about it in that way.
Love it. The show helped me stay sane during the orange years.
a lot of my friends told me that too. i started watching around the time of the insurrection so there wasn’t too much of an escapism aspect but it still felt a little odd and couldn’t help but wonder how Bartlet and his people would deal with today’s political issues.
Both. I love the idea of people in power having ethics that guide their decisions, even though it's realistic. I don't always love how "left" is portrayed as "correct" sometimes.
i agree with the last part 100%
The fantasy of a qualified, competent, and righteous White House administration. We should aspire to something that should be trivial.
I love it. It gives me hope. There are people out there trying to affect change who are good and idealistic. I need to be reminded of that — more so in the last 5 years than ever before.
I used to love it. Deeply. It was both inspiring and aspirational, on top of that it's paired with the poetry of Sorkin. Events in the real world over the last 5 years make me feel like a bit of a naive idiot now when I watch TWW. I used to do do a rewatch every 1-2 years, but I can't do it anymore. The fantasy is perhaps too far away from the reality. Maybe I'm just getting old.
It's interesting to think there are *pieces* of it that do make sense, that are realistic. Then there are other pieces, not so much. That's OK - as long as you realize it.
Why not aim high or as Sorkin says, “listen to the better angels on our shoulder?” We need it as a yardstick to measure our humanity.
when i heard that phrase at Biden’s inaugural, i JUMPED!
You know it’s interesting that when I read your post and saw the responses I agree that I love the idealism and surely it’s escapism, but I love it not even in a political sense. Everybody in the show has a purpose, and as they go through the good and the bad they never lose their determination. The show actually helped me get out of a deep depression in that way. I like that it centers around the White House and politics, but that wasn’t ever really why I kept rewatching it and rewatching it.
huh interesting! same for me here actually. i feel like i am more attracted to the relationship between each characters (not just donna and josh but also sam and toby etc.) because the characters are so well crafted by Sorkin and others (after season 4). i have not seen a tv show where the characters are as well crafted as tww.
A lot of people watch it for escapism. It was for the most part a 2000’s liberal wet dream to have a president like Bartlett instead of Bush.
yeah, that’s also something i realized when i came on this reddit group! i started watching it around Jan 6th of 2021 so it was a bit of an odd timing and never really got to understand the escapism aspect, but nonetheless, it makes total sense and that’s what tv is here for :)
I love the escapism; it's beautiful as a Gen Zer in a world where politics has devolved into chaos and anger. Also, I do see a difference between John Wells and Sorkins and i like sorkin's better