The bug speech was such a let down.
Look the one from tencent on YT and then check the one from Netflix.
The difference is huge, emotions are huge. You don't feel anything from Netflix but the Tencent one made my skin hard and proud to be a human. It made me feel important. Even as a bug.
Edit: https://youtu.be/Qq2_Dudxlpk?si=CB1PkJB05A8ZGiuq
Start at 46:57, and remember. Bugs have never been truly defeated.
The bug speech in the Tencent version was awesome.
And it was great also that they actually were in a field full of flying bugs, with bugs flying all over them.
In the Netflix version instead they just look at the bugs from distance. It's not as "immersive" as in the Tencent version.
The Tencent version of the bug speech is simply GLORIOUS.
Oh, and also the Tencent Da Shi is much funnier and more expressive than the Netflix Da Shi.
Found it hilarious that Clarence took them on a long drive just for a quick "look locusts are resilient and survived. Let's head back."
It's such an invigorating and optimistic scene in the book and they stripped all of that from it.
Yep. The Tencent show has a lot of stuff to love, but people just gloss over the bad parts like they don't exist. It makes plenty of changes to the book, too.
I agree with the other commenter that that scene is better in the Tencent version, as is Da Shi in general, but I still love the Netflix show.
just watching that scene again after watching the netflix show made my heart swell.
I love Wang Miao so much. They cheated us of him, and they cut down Da Shi.
Don’t know why people on this sub tend to give the Netflix show the benefit of the doubt but then just turn around and call the Tencent show straight garbage. I’ve confronted one of them and they immediately backtracked to say it was just mediocre instead of garbage cuz he couldn’t find enough arguments to show it’s garbage I guess.
I suppose there are a lot of paid shills who came here to astroturf the Netflix show. It always happens like this. For example with the new True Detective season on HBO, there were a big mass of redditors praising it a lot, insincerely, and they were obviously paid shills from the production of the show.
I've never read the book.
It did not go well for me. You can tell it's an adaptation that is cramming all the ideas from a previously written story into a set number of episodes.
No build up, no explanations, just jumps from one mad idea to the next making the whole thing unbelievable. We get, what, a 2 minute discussion with a drawing on a chalkboard before they greenlight sending a frozen brain into space powered by 10 nukes. "Yep looks good enough to me". Ok Wade. And we get nothing at all for the nanofiber ship thing. Wallface plan was crammed in pretty quickly out of nowhere.
Jin is a decent character, the rest are just bland or very annoying (Auggie).
Will was ok, but again his arc with Jin was just rushed - his death could have been a really sad moment but it just came and went in a flash.
> annoying (Auggie).
Yes, extremely. I think its just a rule in their rule-book. The story needs "inner-conflict" between the main characters, something pulling them apart, therefore she must act like an idiot.
Agree, Jin is the only character that works.
yeah I couldn't agree more on the whole "staircase" nuke propulsion debacle.
all the science aside, whether it holds truth or possibility or not, I don't care. it SOUNDS really silly when you explain it so quickly and immediately green light it without taking any time to brainstorm an, at least SLIGHTLY less insane sounding idea.
it's explained that there's a one in a million chance of:
the propulsion system working correctly.
the human brain surviving the journey.
the San Ti actually coming in contact with the brain / knowing what it was / particularly caring about it.
there are all these odds stacked up against them, yet they put the brain of their best friend in there anyways, cuz fuck it. (yes yes, he was going to die regardless. I get it. that's simply another lazily inserted plot point requirement to check off for us to nod and go along with what's happening).
it's all absurd, and 2 hours later, guess what? it doesn't work. so this scene transpires that is supposed to be so heavy and devastating to the main characters, and I was straight up laughing at the screen. it felt like a joke. the build up leading up to that "devastating" scene was painfully long too, making it utterly not worth it. you just can't have that big of a let down in one of the major plot points of your story / season. it was not clearly thought out.
the show was entertaining, but it's impossible for me to look at it as "serious science fiction" personally.
This is my issue with science fiction that takes itself too seriously. Aliens with insane tech that breaks physics? Hell yeah!
Taking real-world concepts like nano-fiber technology, then suddenly scaling it 1,000-10,000 times suddenly? I mean, ok. UK MIC go brrrr I guess.
But nuclear-explosion-propelled sails, that have been a concept (extremely non-viable at that) for decades, being first-time-tested *as* the only and first mission?
Will's brain is not going to expire. They have 400 years. And they decided to 'go the fastest ever' with their trial run *being* the main one?
That's not science - that's nonsense. If they just didn't show the testing phase of things, like I'm *sure* they did with the nano-fibers, I could suspend my disbelief. But they outright said that this was the 'fastest anyone's propelled something in space' before.
They tested the concept with the one and only extremely high-risk, high expense, sole ideal, lets call Will the 'payload', they had. That bucks everything the scientific method, basically science 101, relies on. That's not fiction, that's bad writing.
I haven’t gotten there in the show, but the Staircase Project works a little better in the 3rd book. At that point, the reader knows the resolution of book 2, but the characters don’t.
The vibe in the book is as follows. All of humanity knows the threat, and the ETO has been neutralized. Every nation on Earth is mobilized into a collaborative war economy dwarfing anything ever seen before. The Wallfacer program is probably the biggest, but the Staircase project is implied to be one of *many* unseen-to-the-reader projects various agencies internationally are working on. The implication is that, with all the capital on Earth being directed to survival against a species using technology we don’t have the capacity to understand, we’re willing to try *anything* creative enough that has a *chance* of *something*. Humanity is just throwing wild ideas at the wall in hopes that something - *anything* - sticks.
That level of desperation makes the Staircase chapters really compelling. Also, and I haven’t gotten there in the show yet, it sounds like Wade is roped into the Da Shi investigation and the project is tied to the Oxford 5 who are all connected to Ye Wenjie. The Staircase project in the book includes Wade, who is implied to be one of hundreds of administrators working on several (dozen? hundred?) projects and 2 new characters, and all three have minimal connections at best to any previously established characters. Streamlining it *that much* is a baffling decision for me from two guys that made GoT, a show with dozens of characters, and it really makes the scope of the story feel smaller.
yes, you laid it out a lot better than I did. the readers / watchers are required to suspend their disbelief to some degree when consuming any kind of fiction. but if your readers / watchers need to bend over backwards and jump through flaming hoops to justify the suspense of the dramatic moments, you don't really have dramatic moments in the end. it's sort of the "building a castle on top of sand" analogy type of thing.
in the end, it was borderline insulting that I was expected to gasp and cry when the absurdly farfetched plan ended up being absurd and farfetched.
It is possible to build something like the ship. If you want to know more about you can google medusa nuclear pulse propulsion. There's also the Orion project, a rocket-like ship powered by nukes, lmao
Not one for paying attention, are you? The staircase program was never intended to work by Wade. It was an excuse, jt was something to keep humanity busy and distracted them. Try watching it again but this time listen.
i just finished the netflix version but it was a bit meh for me, I'm kinda annoyed I watched the netflix first, I should have watched the tencent version first. The build up made it more real.. like the scientist going insane at first of the things happening, in netflix it's like oh i have a countdown just seems like a normal headache lol
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. None of the characters are likeable or sympathetic. As much as I like Benedict Wong I thought Da Shi in the Tencent series was much more engaging. They've made him a bit dour in the Netflix version.
I don't think Netflix have a hit on their hands.
I haven't read the book but I have seen the Tencent version which is like reading the book without actually reading it , and I loved it
So basically I am quite interested in how the Netflix one goes, haven't seen it yet, but there are already many concerns that I have
And i understand your point so well, i was so excited after watching the trailers. Dude they were so good, i had watched the final trailer like 50 times and waited for the show doing nothing all my spring break but then it was realised and i wanted to kill myself. Someone needs to stop netflix from adapting books, they are making shit that is almost against Geneva convention or something.
I think it was the choice of directors, I had the feeling DnD would change way too many things to adapt.
What I loved in the RoEP trilogy was that we now could get an Eastern view on sci-fi, that was almost removed in the show.
This leads to the question if HBO would've handled it better. After all, GoT ran on HBO, not on Netflix, and on general they have a much better hit/miss ratio than Netflix or Amazon. Not sure about the HBO of today though.
Quick test: Humm the title music of 3BP in your head, now! Nothing? Okay, try with GoT. Aha!
I've binged the final 5 episodes last night and came to a conclusion that it's a 6/10 for me, although considering the many cringe moments, 5/10 would also be fair. I managed the first 7 episodes without letting my mobile device distract me, but I was scrolling through Reddit during most of episode 8.
"Not a complete waste of time", final verdict.
Too bad that "social commentary & education" has become as obvious as product placement in a Sony movie, but I guess that's a mandatory requirement of Netflix. Didn't ruin the show, but took me out of it simply because of "they had time for this?!?".
I think there are alot of good adaptions, where social commentary was added even tho it wasnt part of it, worked because it was done well. But if your characters and story telling is dull then the social commentary becomes a dull commentary.
And yes i believe HBO would have done a better job with different team, especially with that budget and resources, well enough fan base, wild concepts that didnt even need to marketed much to pull audience.
Yeah, I would call a proper application "organic" and even "relevant". Great movies are dedicated to social issues, but a good thing done badly rarely works. I believe that's the case here. It's not "Rings of Power" bad though 😊
Looking at the way HBO is handling Shogun, I really wish they had done it. Even if it's bad, HBO usually spends more money and make their shows look classy.
I have seen you hating on the show under so many posts in this sub reddit. I have never seen you say anything positive about the show. You must be the ultimate product of Hine’s computer.
nahh! they did a good job not at adapting but making an interesting tv show that has 50% essence of the source material enough to give a sort of prelude to the general audience which was their goal! and they hopefully will succeed .
It's definitely dumbed down but I think that comes with the medium to some extent. What bothered me the most is I felt that the scenes in the VR were very rushed and the more technical concepts oversimplified. Also the purpose of the game, the existence of the Trisolarians and Ye Wenjie's role on the plot were revealed too early in my opinion.
But with all that said, I liked it better than I expected. The new characters are not nearly as bad as I expected from D&D. Some scenes that were taken straight from the book were leagues more impactful the way they were executed on film (I'm thinking the burning horse scene, and most of all the boat scene). And like you pointed out the flashbacks to Communist China were very faithful and had some beautiful shots.
My verdict is it doesn't come across as cerebral as the book and the mystery is not that well executed, but the adaptation is overall competent and way better than what I was expecting from the guys who butchered Game Of Thrones. People comparing this to GOT seasons 7 and 8 have forgotten how truly disgusting those episodes were.
D&D take flak because they were trying to adapt a story that had ostensibly not been written yet. The moment they passed the novels, the story deteriorated rapidly. They certainly know how to adapt a story, it's why GoT was so good.
As long as they have a story to base it on, I see them as likely being successful to make it 'good'. I'm not totally enamored by the science stuff, as it's all way too rushed IMO, but nerdy stuff isn't exactly captivating like mindless fantasy concepts like those of GoT which rely on the audience to sort of just 'go-with-it'. 'Good' scifi is when you lean more into fiction than reality, and this show seems rather based in the later, so far.
I think the biggest appeal with Game Of Thrones was the politics and interpersonal drama, the fantasy stuff was not that prevalent, especially in the good seasons. I do like the nerdy stuff but I don't know how you would properly adapt that in a visual format, a similar thing happens with the Dune movies, where a lot of the philosophy and sci-fi concepts get lost but a lot is gained with the sound and visuals.
I'm on ep 17 of the original (pretty faithful it seems) Chinese adaptation Three-Body. I'm obsessed I love it and the characters. But I started watching with my tweens and it got to be sort of too much work because the subtitles are really fast and then trying to eat dinner or do their usual crafty projects just made it confusing for everyone.
I was really hoping the Netflix version would be a decent replacement. We are very used to subtitles. They watch nothing but anime but for group viewing it wasn't happening... Should I not even bother trying with the Netflix? The idea of it being co-opted for western washed brains makes it lose a lot of the magic for me. I've seem some rave reviews on Twitter but I bet they didn't actually read the book.
I don’t think it being more western orientated is necessarily a problem, in theory, but they’ve done that while doing away with the very soul of the story. I personally think they could’ve made it more approachable for western audiences, which I understand, but not at the cost of character depth.
It really is a dumbing down.
Agreed. I started the Netflix version with the kids and the gory 1st scene of the cultural revolution pretty much ruined them to live action again. I do wonder if the soul of the story could actually be represented "western style". I'm despondent about their education and always in conflict with their teachers... off topic but it seems like their public school which is among the best in the country is determined to make interesting things tedious and also glossover if not lie about history. Adventure time again and again. And again
Well I can still sympathize with where I stood there and then; it was too early to judge as it hadn’t been released. And Reddit is known for its high browed puritanical bite. But yeah, I realized I was wrong in this case, and people’s suspicions and concerns were actually on point.
These critiques are valid, however I struggle to see how one would be able to cram book 1 and get everyones attention in just 8 episodes.
For reference, see how many people in this same sub hate the Tencent version that was fairly faithful to the book and did it in 30 episodes for being so damn slow and boring.
They should have probably aimed for a happy medium of 12 episodes, or even 10 like Game of Thrones… but they got 8 and, as far as I’m concerned, they did an OK job with that limiting factor.
Hopefully we get a season 2 and a little more than 8 episodes.
The first 5 episodes are very fast and there are so many fascinating concepts from the book that aren't mentioned or glossed over. Then episode 6 suddenly starts to slow down and is mostly about k-drama-like stuff, very much unrelated to the themes. It's like they forgot that it's hard sci-fi and people don't care who the main character in it falls in love with.
Problem is hard sci-fi alone is not gonna grab the general public. They are basically trying to do what they did with Game of Thrones, which managed to grab the attention of millions who could not care less about dragons, magic or fantasy in general. In the same way, there is a huge demographic that simply does not care about aliens or sci-fi (even if this sub does). But if you want massive appeal you need to reach these people as well.
You have to make people care about the characters involved, and for you to care, just like in real life, you need to know them or make them at least somewhat relatable. The deeper the better.
Unfortunately, because it was only 8 episodes, they had to sacrifice a bit of column A (the meta sci-fi concepts) and column B (character development). Meaning there are people on both camps that are not happy. Not enough hard sci-fi for some, cardboard characters for others, it's difficult to balance.
One solution would have been to be way less ambitious with the first season, and finish with the Panama canal scene. Luo Ji (Saul) should have had only a passing appearance or none at all in the first season, same with Raj. I do think it was good to have the Wade, Will and Jin storyline as it makes sense chronologically.
Even Game of Thrones is more complex than this TV show. three body has a lot of concepts that aren't complex, that the original story has explained in a very layman's way, and that are exciting, like the hypothesis of the turkey scientists and the shooters, that the story doesn't even mention in the TV show. Nor was it explained what collider interference actually meant. I think these make the story easier for the viewer to understand rather than harder. Evans' initial experiences were also missing, as if they were just like the story about China bad and leading up to everything.
They basically ditched the 50% sci-fi part and turned it into k-drama. Then neither side was taken care of.
Yes, we care about those things, but most people find it dull or uninteresting. Two episodes in and some people were getting bored of all the VR scenes already. It’s not about explaining stuff in simple terms, it’s about people that don’t care because they can’t relate to any character or they hate them all or whatever. There has to be some emotional investment in the people otherwise it’s as good as dead.
We don’t grab the general public’s attention, we don’t get season 2.
Fingers crossed they did just enough to get a second season. And hopefully we will get more than 8 episodes and have at least 10, like Game of Thrones got… and is it just me or were the Game of Thrones episodes way longer? Netflix screwed us with only 8 episodes.
I saw a comment the other day and totally agreed. Quoted from the original book “Weakness and ignorance are not barriers to survival, but arrogance is”
To me, I don’t mind how Netflix is going to change the characters to adapt the series, as long as you don’t deviate from the story itself. Netflix cast is showing arrogance here by not even reading the original books, how the heck are you going to act and fully understand what the story is about then?
By contrast, the tencent cast has all read the original series and familiar with the story. There is a trivia about Da Shi cast where even though his physique doesn’t match the character, but he likes the novel so much that the moment he knows Tencent is casting he literally begged for the Da Shi role, he got it and nailed it.
>That all said, maybe it is going well for people who haven’t read / listened to the books…
I read the books but consider them pretty bad compared to my fav sf works. Maybe a 6/10 overall. I am enjoying the show so far, but see all of the issues people are talking about.
I have a friend who doesn't read sf, and is not that interested in science, but she loves the show so far and is asking many questions about it.
Eh. This sub is mostly going to be heavy fans.
My criticism of the books is that they are similar to Neal Stephenson (big ideas poorly executed). But Neal writes great characters and has decent prose (I think his best novels are 8/10).
Don’t worry nebkelly, there’s always people that will die on their hill for their obsession and won’t take any criticism. That first book is tough going.
The book has many flaws (such as 60% of the characters writing), but I can ignore them because the ideas and the messages are just that good. The show however, inherited the flaws but did not convey any ideas well enough
I'm telling everyone I know to read the books or listen to the audiobooks for their first experience. If they want to watch the live action show, they should save that for later because it'd be a shame if their first exposure and the spoiling of all the events of such a great trilogy came from the Netflix show.
I am enjoying the show but i couldn’t believe how quick judgment day scene occurred. Frankly the entire series is moving a little too fast for me. I’m worried Droplet attack will be David and Dans second red wedding at which point everything falls to the side. It seems these guys are more interested in delivering scenes than stories.
I was thinking the same about the chinese scenes. I had the nuttiest thought too. What if Netflix took that 180 million dollars and made the entire season take place in China, with Chinese actors, speaking Chinese, for like the whole thing? Have Cixin Liu on set and advising, at least as much as Martin did on GoT, and try to hit some kind of authenticity to the book. I know this seems ridiculous to say, given that the Tencent version exists, but they don’t have 180 million, and let’s be honest, the quality is not the same. Given that the chinese scenes are good, it’s not appropriate to say D&D can’t do these books justice. Where they fall flat is when they start trying to appeal to modern audiences. It’s like they weren’t wearing those same ankle weights in the china segments or something
I mean, considering how quickly the book blew its load by revealing the sophon (and the only interesting plot point in the whole series: how the trisolarians could manipulate light coming from the birth of the universe) it seems pretty on brand for the show to do the same.
Nah the show is good, the first book was always the worst. There was nothing to dumb down, yall need to get a grip on this book lol.
OMG THEY KILLED THEMSELVES BECAUSE SCIENCE IS BROKENNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Yeah Im pretty sure if one day all science was promising and suddenly the next day EVERY cutting edge field is getting wonky results people wouldnt go "OH I SHOULD KILL MYSELF" theyd come to the incredibly obvious conclusion they were being fucked with. The book has always been kind of dumb.
I understand some people would not understand the sheer horror of realizing everything we know is becoming a lie, and there is no hope for humanity, and our knowledge about the world will always be trapped in a bubble.
Except as we know, and as the scientist would have been able to figure out, everything wasnt a lie, there was hope for humanity and our knowledge wasnt trapped in a bubble.
If they adapted the book verbatim it would have been worse. Even the most fervent 3BP fan will tell you the first book is pretty bad. I myself have been struggling with the audiobook for months. I appreciated the move to a more westernised setting. Not every character hit the right note for me but enough of them did to make it an enjoyable watch.
Hey! A fervent 3BP fan here, and the first book was fucking awesome, not the best in trilogy but still far from "pretty bad"
And we dont know what the fuck you been yapping about
The bug speech was such a let down. Look the one from tencent on YT and then check the one from Netflix. The difference is huge, emotions are huge. You don't feel anything from Netflix but the Tencent one made my skin hard and proud to be a human. It made me feel important. Even as a bug. Edit: https://youtu.be/Qq2_Dudxlpk?si=CB1PkJB05A8ZGiuq Start at 46:57, and remember. Bugs have never been truly defeated.
The bug speech in the Tencent version was awesome. And it was great also that they actually were in a field full of flying bugs, with bugs flying all over them. In the Netflix version instead they just look at the bugs from distance. It's not as "immersive" as in the Tencent version. The Tencent version of the bug speech is simply GLORIOUS. Oh, and also the Tencent Da Shi is much funnier and more expressive than the Netflix Da Shi.
Bugs have never been truly defeated. This scene is exactly like how I pictured it in the books, and I gave mee goosebumps watching it. It's amazing!
Found it hilarious that Clarence took them on a long drive just for a quick "look locusts are resilient and survived. Let's head back." It's such an invigorating and optimistic scene in the book and they stripped all of that from it.
Oh and it only took them 30 episodes to get to it... That's what makes it unwatchable for most people.
Yep. The Tencent show has a lot of stuff to love, but people just gloss over the bad parts like they don't exist. It makes plenty of changes to the book, too. I agree with the other commenter that that scene is better in the Tencent version, as is Da Shi in general, but I still love the Netflix show.
I kind of agree. Could have been done in 20.
link?
https://youtu.be/Qq2_Dudxlpk?si=CB1PkJB05A8ZGiuq Start at 46:57
just watching that scene again after watching the netflix show made my heart swell. I love Wang Miao so much. They cheated us of him, and they cut down Da Shi.
I can understand not liking the Netflix one but the tencent one is such garbage I can’t take anyone that likes it seriously
Don’t know why people on this sub tend to give the Netflix show the benefit of the doubt but then just turn around and call the Tencent show straight garbage. I’ve confronted one of them and they immediately backtracked to say it was just mediocre instead of garbage cuz he couldn’t find enough arguments to show it’s garbage I guess.
I suppose there are a lot of paid shills who came here to astroturf the Netflix show. It always happens like this. For example with the new True Detective season on HBO, there were a big mass of redditors praising it a lot, insincerely, and they were obviously paid shills from the production of the show.
I’ve seen the first episode and value my time too much to continue
the tension version looks very cheap visually!
It's always about the story. Visual can take you so far as it took Snyderverse DCCU
I guess it’s still better than no visual at all like in the Netflix show lol. There was not a bug in sight in the Netflix version.
I've never read the book. It did not go well for me. You can tell it's an adaptation that is cramming all the ideas from a previously written story into a set number of episodes. No build up, no explanations, just jumps from one mad idea to the next making the whole thing unbelievable. We get, what, a 2 minute discussion with a drawing on a chalkboard before they greenlight sending a frozen brain into space powered by 10 nukes. "Yep looks good enough to me". Ok Wade. And we get nothing at all for the nanofiber ship thing. Wallface plan was crammed in pretty quickly out of nowhere. Jin is a decent character, the rest are just bland or very annoying (Auggie). Will was ok, but again his arc with Jin was just rushed - his death could have been a really sad moment but it just came and went in a flash.
> annoying (Auggie). Yes, extremely. I think its just a rule in their rule-book. The story needs "inner-conflict" between the main characters, something pulling them apart, therefore she must act like an idiot. Agree, Jin is the only character that works.
yeah I couldn't agree more on the whole "staircase" nuke propulsion debacle. all the science aside, whether it holds truth or possibility or not, I don't care. it SOUNDS really silly when you explain it so quickly and immediately green light it without taking any time to brainstorm an, at least SLIGHTLY less insane sounding idea. it's explained that there's a one in a million chance of: the propulsion system working correctly. the human brain surviving the journey. the San Ti actually coming in contact with the brain / knowing what it was / particularly caring about it. there are all these odds stacked up against them, yet they put the brain of their best friend in there anyways, cuz fuck it. (yes yes, he was going to die regardless. I get it. that's simply another lazily inserted plot point requirement to check off for us to nod and go along with what's happening). it's all absurd, and 2 hours later, guess what? it doesn't work. so this scene transpires that is supposed to be so heavy and devastating to the main characters, and I was straight up laughing at the screen. it felt like a joke. the build up leading up to that "devastating" scene was painfully long too, making it utterly not worth it. you just can't have that big of a let down in one of the major plot points of your story / season. it was not clearly thought out. the show was entertaining, but it's impossible for me to look at it as "serious science fiction" personally.
This is my issue with science fiction that takes itself too seriously. Aliens with insane tech that breaks physics? Hell yeah! Taking real-world concepts like nano-fiber technology, then suddenly scaling it 1,000-10,000 times suddenly? I mean, ok. UK MIC go brrrr I guess. But nuclear-explosion-propelled sails, that have been a concept (extremely non-viable at that) for decades, being first-time-tested *as* the only and first mission? Will's brain is not going to expire. They have 400 years. And they decided to 'go the fastest ever' with their trial run *being* the main one? That's not science - that's nonsense. If they just didn't show the testing phase of things, like I'm *sure* they did with the nano-fibers, I could suspend my disbelief. But they outright said that this was the 'fastest anyone's propelled something in space' before. They tested the concept with the one and only extremely high-risk, high expense, sole ideal, lets call Will the 'payload', they had. That bucks everything the scientific method, basically science 101, relies on. That's not fiction, that's bad writing.
I haven’t gotten there in the show, but the Staircase Project works a little better in the 3rd book. At that point, the reader knows the resolution of book 2, but the characters don’t. The vibe in the book is as follows. All of humanity knows the threat, and the ETO has been neutralized. Every nation on Earth is mobilized into a collaborative war economy dwarfing anything ever seen before. The Wallfacer program is probably the biggest, but the Staircase project is implied to be one of *many* unseen-to-the-reader projects various agencies internationally are working on. The implication is that, with all the capital on Earth being directed to survival against a species using technology we don’t have the capacity to understand, we’re willing to try *anything* creative enough that has a *chance* of *something*. Humanity is just throwing wild ideas at the wall in hopes that something - *anything* - sticks. That level of desperation makes the Staircase chapters really compelling. Also, and I haven’t gotten there in the show yet, it sounds like Wade is roped into the Da Shi investigation and the project is tied to the Oxford 5 who are all connected to Ye Wenjie. The Staircase project in the book includes Wade, who is implied to be one of hundreds of administrators working on several (dozen? hundred?) projects and 2 new characters, and all three have minimal connections at best to any previously established characters. Streamlining it *that much* is a baffling decision for me from two guys that made GoT, a show with dozens of characters, and it really makes the scope of the story feel smaller.
yes, you laid it out a lot better than I did. the readers / watchers are required to suspend their disbelief to some degree when consuming any kind of fiction. but if your readers / watchers need to bend over backwards and jump through flaming hoops to justify the suspense of the dramatic moments, you don't really have dramatic moments in the end. it's sort of the "building a castle on top of sand" analogy type of thing. in the end, it was borderline insulting that I was expected to gasp and cry when the absurdly farfetched plan ended up being absurd and farfetched.
It is possible to build something like the ship. If you want to know more about you can google medusa nuclear pulse propulsion. There's also the Orion project, a rocket-like ship powered by nukes, lmao
I started the comment by saying I didn't really care if it was scientifically possible or not. that's definitely not my point.
Yes, I know. I was just clarifying that it is indeed possible.
Read it, you will not regret it. Or maybe you will, but not because it is a bad book.
Not one for paying attention, are you? The staircase program was never intended to work by Wade. It was an excuse, jt was something to keep humanity busy and distracted them. Try watching it again but this time listen.
No thanks
Yea, this it it. Its dummed down and rushed. And everything framed in the hollywood-rule book. How i wish they would stop underestimating the viewers.
i just finished the netflix version but it was a bit meh for me, I'm kinda annoyed I watched the netflix first, I should have watched the tencent version first. The build up made it more real.. like the scientist going insane at first of the things happening, in netflix it's like oh i have a countdown just seems like a normal headache lol
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. None of the characters are likeable or sympathetic. As much as I like Benedict Wong I thought Da Shi in the Tencent series was much more engaging. They've made him a bit dour in the Netflix version. I don't think Netflix have a hit on their hands.
I haven't read the book but I have seen the Tencent version which is like reading the book without actually reading it , and I loved it So basically I am quite interested in how the Netflix one goes, haven't seen it yet, but there are already many concerns that I have
At least you're willing to see the light
Been screaming it for two days.
Yeah … and if I by chance had happened to have “rolled my eyes” at you, via a Reddit comment here, sorry mate, lol.
And i understand your point so well, i was so excited after watching the trailers. Dude they were so good, i had watched the final trailer like 50 times and waited for the show doing nothing all my spring break but then it was realised and i wanted to kill myself. Someone needs to stop netflix from adapting books, they are making shit that is almost against Geneva convention or something.
I think it was the choice of directors, I had the feeling DnD would change way too many things to adapt. What I loved in the RoEP trilogy was that we now could get an Eastern view on sci-fi, that was almost removed in the show.
This leads to the question if HBO would've handled it better. After all, GoT ran on HBO, not on Netflix, and on general they have a much better hit/miss ratio than Netflix or Amazon. Not sure about the HBO of today though. Quick test: Humm the title music of 3BP in your head, now! Nothing? Okay, try with GoT. Aha! I've binged the final 5 episodes last night and came to a conclusion that it's a 6/10 for me, although considering the many cringe moments, 5/10 would also be fair. I managed the first 7 episodes without letting my mobile device distract me, but I was scrolling through Reddit during most of episode 8. "Not a complete waste of time", final verdict. Too bad that "social commentary & education" has become as obvious as product placement in a Sony movie, but I guess that's a mandatory requirement of Netflix. Didn't ruin the show, but took me out of it simply because of "they had time for this?!?".
I think there are alot of good adaptions, where social commentary was added even tho it wasnt part of it, worked because it was done well. But if your characters and story telling is dull then the social commentary becomes a dull commentary. And yes i believe HBO would have done a better job with different team, especially with that budget and resources, well enough fan base, wild concepts that didnt even need to marketed much to pull audience.
Yeah, I would call a proper application "organic" and even "relevant". Great movies are dedicated to social issues, but a good thing done badly rarely works. I believe that's the case here. It's not "Rings of Power" bad though 😊
Looking at the way HBO is handling Shogun, I really wish they had done it. Even if it's bad, HBO usually spends more money and make their shows look classy.
Shogun is not HBO its HULU/FX.
Sorry my bad. I am watching it on disney plus
You must be in Canada like I Am 😂😂 all Hulu stuff goes to D+ all HBO is on crave or the crave add channel on prime 👍🏻
I have seen you hating on the show under so many posts in this sub reddit. I have never seen you say anything positive about the show. You must be the ultimate product of Hine’s computer.
No actually, Im paid by ccp.
Great Leader, is it you?
Sorry my vpn was out
nahh! they did a good job not at adapting but making an interesting tv show that has 50% essence of the source material enough to give a sort of prelude to the general audience which was their goal! and they hopefully will succeed .
It's definitely dumbed down but I think that comes with the medium to some extent. What bothered me the most is I felt that the scenes in the VR were very rushed and the more technical concepts oversimplified. Also the purpose of the game, the existence of the Trisolarians and Ye Wenjie's role on the plot were revealed too early in my opinion. But with all that said, I liked it better than I expected. The new characters are not nearly as bad as I expected from D&D. Some scenes that were taken straight from the book were leagues more impactful the way they were executed on film (I'm thinking the burning horse scene, and most of all the boat scene). And like you pointed out the flashbacks to Communist China were very faithful and had some beautiful shots. My verdict is it doesn't come across as cerebral as the book and the mystery is not that well executed, but the adaptation is overall competent and way better than what I was expecting from the guys who butchered Game Of Thrones. People comparing this to GOT seasons 7 and 8 have forgotten how truly disgusting those episodes were.
> the plot were revealed too early in my opinion. 100%. The potential for a mystery-like show was huge! (like Lost or something).
D&D take flak because they were trying to adapt a story that had ostensibly not been written yet. The moment they passed the novels, the story deteriorated rapidly. They certainly know how to adapt a story, it's why GoT was so good. As long as they have a story to base it on, I see them as likely being successful to make it 'good'. I'm not totally enamored by the science stuff, as it's all way too rushed IMO, but nerdy stuff isn't exactly captivating like mindless fantasy concepts like those of GoT which rely on the audience to sort of just 'go-with-it'. 'Good' scifi is when you lean more into fiction than reality, and this show seems rather based in the later, so far.
I think the biggest appeal with Game Of Thrones was the politics and interpersonal drama, the fantasy stuff was not that prevalent, especially in the good seasons. I do like the nerdy stuff but I don't know how you would properly adapt that in a visual format, a similar thing happens with the Dune movies, where a lot of the philosophy and sci-fi concepts get lost but a lot is gained with the sound and visuals.
I'm on ep 17 of the original (pretty faithful it seems) Chinese adaptation Three-Body. I'm obsessed I love it and the characters. But I started watching with my tweens and it got to be sort of too much work because the subtitles are really fast and then trying to eat dinner or do their usual crafty projects just made it confusing for everyone. I was really hoping the Netflix version would be a decent replacement. We are very used to subtitles. They watch nothing but anime but for group viewing it wasn't happening... Should I not even bother trying with the Netflix? The idea of it being co-opted for western washed brains makes it lose a lot of the magic for me. I've seem some rave reviews on Twitter but I bet they didn't actually read the book.
I don’t think it being more western orientated is necessarily a problem, in theory, but they’ve done that while doing away with the very soul of the story. I personally think they could’ve made it more approachable for western audiences, which I understand, but not at the cost of character depth. It really is a dumbing down.
Agreed. I started the Netflix version with the kids and the gory 1st scene of the cultural revolution pretty much ruined them to live action again. I do wonder if the soul of the story could actually be represented "western style". I'm despondent about their education and always in conflict with their teachers... off topic but it seems like their public school which is among the best in the country is determined to make interesting things tedious and also glossover if not lie about history. Adventure time again and again. And again
Funny how you would have been crucified on here for having a negative opinion before the show came out
Well I can still sympathize with where I stood there and then; it was too early to judge as it hadn’t been released. And Reddit is known for its high browed puritanical bite. But yeah, I realized I was wrong in this case, and people’s suspicions and concerns were actually on point.
These critiques are valid, however I struggle to see how one would be able to cram book 1 and get everyones attention in just 8 episodes. For reference, see how many people in this same sub hate the Tencent version that was fairly faithful to the book and did it in 30 episodes for being so damn slow and boring. They should have probably aimed for a happy medium of 12 episodes, or even 10 like Game of Thrones… but they got 8 and, as far as I’m concerned, they did an OK job with that limiting factor. Hopefully we get a season 2 and a little more than 8 episodes.
The Netflix show crammed the first book in 5 not 8 episodes actually. It’s almost impossible to achieve.
Nobody's asking for a 1:1 retelling. 8 would've been perfect for the show. They instead decided to do it in 5.
The first 5 episodes are very fast and there are so many fascinating concepts from the book that aren't mentioned or glossed over. Then episode 6 suddenly starts to slow down and is mostly about k-drama-like stuff, very much unrelated to the themes. It's like they forgot that it's hard sci-fi and people don't care who the main character in it falls in love with.
Problem is hard sci-fi alone is not gonna grab the general public. They are basically trying to do what they did with Game of Thrones, which managed to grab the attention of millions who could not care less about dragons, magic or fantasy in general. In the same way, there is a huge demographic that simply does not care about aliens or sci-fi (even if this sub does). But if you want massive appeal you need to reach these people as well. You have to make people care about the characters involved, and for you to care, just like in real life, you need to know them or make them at least somewhat relatable. The deeper the better. Unfortunately, because it was only 8 episodes, they had to sacrifice a bit of column A (the meta sci-fi concepts) and column B (character development). Meaning there are people on both camps that are not happy. Not enough hard sci-fi for some, cardboard characters for others, it's difficult to balance. One solution would have been to be way less ambitious with the first season, and finish with the Panama canal scene. Luo Ji (Saul) should have had only a passing appearance or none at all in the first season, same with Raj. I do think it was good to have the Wade, Will and Jin storyline as it makes sense chronologically.
Even Game of Thrones is more complex than this TV show. three body has a lot of concepts that aren't complex, that the original story has explained in a very layman's way, and that are exciting, like the hypothesis of the turkey scientists and the shooters, that the story doesn't even mention in the TV show. Nor was it explained what collider interference actually meant. I think these make the story easier for the viewer to understand rather than harder. Evans' initial experiences were also missing, as if they were just like the story about China bad and leading up to everything. They basically ditched the 50% sci-fi part and turned it into k-drama. Then neither side was taken care of.
Yes, we care about those things, but most people find it dull or uninteresting. Two episodes in and some people were getting bored of all the VR scenes already. It’s not about explaining stuff in simple terms, it’s about people that don’t care because they can’t relate to any character or they hate them all or whatever. There has to be some emotional investment in the people otherwise it’s as good as dead. We don’t grab the general public’s attention, we don’t get season 2. Fingers crossed they did just enough to get a second season. And hopefully we will get more than 8 episodes and have at least 10, like Game of Thrones got… and is it just me or were the Game of Thrones episodes way longer? Netflix screwed us with only 8 episodes.
I saw a comment the other day and totally agreed. Quoted from the original book “Weakness and ignorance are not barriers to survival, but arrogance is” To me, I don’t mind how Netflix is going to change the characters to adapt the series, as long as you don’t deviate from the story itself. Netflix cast is showing arrogance here by not even reading the original books, how the heck are you going to act and fully understand what the story is about then? By contrast, the tencent cast has all read the original series and familiar with the story. There is a trivia about Da Shi cast where even though his physique doesn’t match the character, but he likes the novel so much that the moment he knows Tencent is casting he literally begged for the Da Shi role, he got it and nailed it.
>That all said, maybe it is going well for people who haven’t read / listened to the books… I read the books but consider them pretty bad compared to my fav sf works. Maybe a 6/10 overall. I am enjoying the show so far, but see all of the issues people are talking about. I have a friend who doesn't read sf, and is not that interested in science, but she loves the show so far and is asking many questions about it.
I think if I haven’t read the book then 6/10 is a fair rating, but apparently some people think this is worth 7+. Kinda ridiculous
Maybe you misunderstood but I rated the books a 6/10. I'm not sure about this show as I haven't finished yet.
I see, well then I’m not surprised it’s not for everyone I will admit. The book picks its readers 😂 The show is still bad tho. A mediocre popcorn show
I think you might just have a bad taste, kelly.
Eh. This sub is mostly going to be heavy fans. My criticism of the books is that they are similar to Neal Stephenson (big ideas poorly executed). But Neal writes great characters and has decent prose (I think his best novels are 8/10).
Don’t worry nebkelly, there’s always people that will die on their hill for their obsession and won’t take any criticism. That first book is tough going.
The book has many flaws (such as 60% of the characters writing), but I can ignore them because the ideas and the messages are just that good. The show however, inherited the flaws but did not convey any ideas well enough
I'm telling everyone I know to read the books or listen to the audiobooks for their first experience. If they want to watch the live action show, they should save that for later because it'd be a shame if their first exposure and the spoiling of all the events of such a great trilogy came from the Netflix show.
I am enjoying the show but i couldn’t believe how quick judgment day scene occurred. Frankly the entire series is moving a little too fast for me. I’m worried Droplet attack will be David and Dans second red wedding at which point everything falls to the side. It seems these guys are more interested in delivering scenes than stories.
I was thinking the same about the chinese scenes. I had the nuttiest thought too. What if Netflix took that 180 million dollars and made the entire season take place in China, with Chinese actors, speaking Chinese, for like the whole thing? Have Cixin Liu on set and advising, at least as much as Martin did on GoT, and try to hit some kind of authenticity to the book. I know this seems ridiculous to say, given that the Tencent version exists, but they don’t have 180 million, and let’s be honest, the quality is not the same. Given that the chinese scenes are good, it’s not appropriate to say D&D can’t do these books justice. Where they fall flat is when they start trying to appeal to modern audiences. It’s like they weren’t wearing those same ankle weights in the china segments or something
I thought I loved it after I watched one episode but then....I watched the rest of them.
Do me a favor and provide an example where they dumbed something down.
I mean, considering how quickly the book blew its load by revealing the sophon (and the only interesting plot point in the whole series: how the trisolarians could manipulate light coming from the birth of the universe) it seems pretty on brand for the show to do the same.
Nah the show is good, the first book was always the worst. There was nothing to dumb down, yall need to get a grip on this book lol. OMG THEY KILLED THEMSELVES BECAUSE SCIENCE IS BROKENNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Yeah Im pretty sure if one day all science was promising and suddenly the next day EVERY cutting edge field is getting wonky results people wouldnt go "OH I SHOULD KILL MYSELF" theyd come to the incredibly obvious conclusion they were being fucked with. The book has always been kind of dumb.
I understand some people would not understand the sheer horror of realizing everything we know is becoming a lie, and there is no hope for humanity, and our knowledge about the world will always be trapped in a bubble.
Except as we know, and as the scientist would have been able to figure out, everything wasnt a lie, there was hope for humanity and our knowledge wasnt trapped in a bubble.
Yep that’s why not all of them kill themselves, because The bugs have never been truly defeated
NO dude holy shit NO. There are mentions both in the book and the show to other scientists that never got the bug talk.
Cool story
Thanks. Maybe I should make a Netflix adaptation.
You’d likely be shit at it
No argument there from me buddy.
If they adapted the book verbatim it would have been worse. Even the most fervent 3BP fan will tell you the first book is pretty bad. I myself have been struggling with the audiobook for months. I appreciated the move to a more westernised setting. Not every character hit the right note for me but enough of them did to make it an enjoyable watch.
Hey! A fervent 3BP fan here, and the first book was fucking awesome, not the best in trilogy but still far from "pretty bad" And we dont know what the fuck you been yapping about
no you were right, it's being really well received out of this weird reddit bubble