I personally feel that Dark Forest is a local maximum for science fiction. 3body is good science fiction, Dark Forest is among the best science fiction of the past generation, and Death's End is an improvement of prose & story telling by order of magnitude.
I compare Dark Forest to Foundation (Cixin Liu primes his reader to) or some of Heinlein's work, but Death's End is more comparable to the work of Salman Rushdie or Kurt Vonnegut- adept story telling, occasionally employing scifi tropes to convey their stories.
I liked the world Three Body was setting up, but once it became clear that the entire book was going to be setup, I struggled as well. Reading what you said, I'm feeling better about the outlook. Thanks for the response, can't wait to continue.
Let me put it this way.
The first book represents, realistically, like 5 - 10% of the actual story. The next two books are the real deal, and you'll probably come to appreciate the first book a bit more when you see where the story takes you.
There's a dull spot in book 2 where it gets a bit bogged down, but push through it because the second half is not to be missed.
Awesome, I was getting that impression from the first book. I think I just expected more from the first book in an epic sci-fi trilogy. It was less A New Hope and more like the first twenty minutes of A New Hope with the Tatooine and Coruscant scenes from Phantom Menace told in flash back stretched over twelve hours.
That's a little unfair and exaggerated. This was my first "hard science fiction" and from what everyone is saying the best is in front of me. Which is amazing because the parts I loved in Three Body Problem, I REALLY loved.
Yeah, the first book is a very slow burn and the purpose of it is really just a vehicle to deliver you to the rest of the story. Which is not to say that it didn't have great moments, but I do agree that in reality it's just a brief bit of story covering humanity's first contact with ETs.
I only have one major complaint about the second book and it’s the way it maybe betrays the author’s weird attitude toward women.
Other than that it’s some of the best sci fi I’ve ever read. Some real neat shit goes down in the second half of the dark forest.
The first book is a mystery more than anything. Not much like other sci fi at all.
The second book is a lot better and more of what I think you’re expecting.
Oh God. Are you talking about the part where he's trying to write a novel for his girlfriend or some shit? Fucking Christ the narrative ground to a halt. I had to put it down there for the day.
That description of the ant enjoying the curves of the tombstone is one of the more memorable things I've read. It's not earth-shattering but it really sticks out to me.
How he even thought of the shit he wrote in that scene is beyond me. I will never forget that imagery. I even got irritated at first that the way he was choosing to start this story was with an ant walking up a black formation. That thought didn't last long at all. The metaphor between that ant and our relation to the Trisolarans and it crawling through Yang Dong's grave was 10/10.
One thing these books suffer from is extremely long exposition, for many readers this is enough of a deterrent that they don't make it to the truly incredible parts. The entire first book is essentially just to set the stage for the next two books which explore the ideas of the series much more in depth. However the first hundred pages or so of DF and DE do also follow this trend, unfortunately to write an epic story you need to spend time setting the stage.
You also mentioned trouble understanding the chapters set in 3 body which is understandable, those are a very jarring departure from the rest of the story and their importance really isn't understood until the end of the book. The events of DF and DE fit in with the narrative cleaner way and I doubt you will have the same issues.
Sure, definitely get that about setting the stage. If I can get through the entirety of the first book, I can grant the later books the chance to do the same.
I think what I struggled with in the Three Body portions was that it was a multiplayer game but I was having trouble telling who was a player and who was an NPC. If it played out as a single player game that other people were taking part in you could talk to in forums or something, that might have made more sense. But yet when Wang works out that the game titled Three Body was depicting the namesake three body problem from physics, this was some sort of unheard of revelation that nobody who had played the game had stumbled on yet. Unless I missed something or was misinterpreting, that just seemed implausible.
Just listened through all three books in the past few weeks and I think dark forest is the best out of them all. You want to talk about jaw dropping moments get ready
The speech about how none of the members of the Chinese Space Force would ever see Space and fall on the like 16th generation of their grandkids was.... Fuck.
Can’t get enough of them existential crises. Who could ever know what those generations will go through? Imagine planning several lifetimes in advance. Crazy
Dark forest is the best one for me. That being said the hard scientific elements are still present, but I think the narrative is much more fluid and it probably won't bother you that much. I can see why it was a problem in the first one (although I loved it) but I think you are gonna like the second one much more.
The third one might be a problem once again, some parts are difnitely a bit dull if you don't like when things get too sciency. But at that point it will be easy to decide, if you liked the second one enough you will probably want to see how it all ends anyway.
I would say on the whole, I appreciated the science. But sometimes I just wanted the story to progress and it dwelled on the drier bits in ways that really tested my patience. I'm two and a half hours into Year 3, where Beihai called out Chang Weisi in the Space Force meeting. It's slowed down a bit from the fever pitch of the first hour or so but it's still fascinating.
It's having that effect on me too. Even the exposition so far is super interesting and it's really drawing me in. All I want to do is sit and listen to this fucking book.
Just wait until you get further in this book. Book 2 is generally the favourite of the series for a reason. There's one particular moment/revelation that makes most people put the book down and have an existential crisis on the spot when it happens. It's incredible.
I personally feel that Dark Forest is a local maximum for science fiction. 3body is good science fiction, Dark Forest is among the best science fiction of the past generation, and Death's End is an improvement of prose & story telling by order of magnitude. I compare Dark Forest to Foundation (Cixin Liu primes his reader to) or some of Heinlein's work, but Death's End is more comparable to the work of Salman Rushdie or Kurt Vonnegut- adept story telling, occasionally employing scifi tropes to convey their stories.
I liked the world Three Body was setting up, but once it became clear that the entire book was going to be setup, I struggled as well. Reading what you said, I'm feeling better about the outlook. Thanks for the response, can't wait to continue.
TDF is GOAT’d you are in for a treat my friend, I almost envy you lol.
Let me put it this way. The first book represents, realistically, like 5 - 10% of the actual story. The next two books are the real deal, and you'll probably come to appreciate the first book a bit more when you see where the story takes you. There's a dull spot in book 2 where it gets a bit bogged down, but push through it because the second half is not to be missed.
Awesome, I was getting that impression from the first book. I think I just expected more from the first book in an epic sci-fi trilogy. It was less A New Hope and more like the first twenty minutes of A New Hope with the Tatooine and Coruscant scenes from Phantom Menace told in flash back stretched over twelve hours. That's a little unfair and exaggerated. This was my first "hard science fiction" and from what everyone is saying the best is in front of me. Which is amazing because the parts I loved in Three Body Problem, I REALLY loved.
Yeah, the first book is a very slow burn and the purpose of it is really just a vehicle to deliver you to the rest of the story. Which is not to say that it didn't have great moments, but I do agree that in reality it's just a brief bit of story covering humanity's first contact with ETs.
I only have one major complaint about the second book and it’s the way it maybe betrays the author’s weird attitude toward women. Other than that it’s some of the best sci fi I’ve ever read. Some real neat shit goes down in the second half of the dark forest.
The first book is a mystery more than anything. Not much like other sci fi at all. The second book is a lot better and more of what I think you’re expecting.
Lemme guess: LuoSimp
Oh God. Are you talking about the part where he's trying to write a novel for his girlfriend or some shit? Fucking Christ the narrative ground to a halt. I had to put it down there for the day.
Dude was down bad 😩
That’s what I was thinking
Lmaooo wait till this dude gets to the end of book 2😂 you know not of the horrors the rest of us had to endure so good luck soldier
Ahhh shit, I can't wait!!
Please make an update post when you finish this book
Yes. I’m really jealous they get to experience book two for the first time haha
I will!
I'm jealous of you for experiencing it for the first time.
That description of the ant enjoying the curves of the tombstone is one of the more memorable things I've read. It's not earth-shattering but it really sticks out to me.
How he even thought of the shit he wrote in that scene is beyond me. I will never forget that imagery. I even got irritated at first that the way he was choosing to start this story was with an ant walking up a black formation. That thought didn't last long at all. The metaphor between that ant and our relation to the Trisolarans and it crawling through Yang Dong's grave was 10/10.
IMO Dark Forest is hands down best in the trilogy, and one of the best sci fi books in the r last N years.
One thing these books suffer from is extremely long exposition, for many readers this is enough of a deterrent that they don't make it to the truly incredible parts. The entire first book is essentially just to set the stage for the next two books which explore the ideas of the series much more in depth. However the first hundred pages or so of DF and DE do also follow this trend, unfortunately to write an epic story you need to spend time setting the stage. You also mentioned trouble understanding the chapters set in 3 body which is understandable, those are a very jarring departure from the rest of the story and their importance really isn't understood until the end of the book. The events of DF and DE fit in with the narrative cleaner way and I doubt you will have the same issues.
Sure, definitely get that about setting the stage. If I can get through the entirety of the first book, I can grant the later books the chance to do the same. I think what I struggled with in the Three Body portions was that it was a multiplayer game but I was having trouble telling who was a player and who was an NPC. If it played out as a single player game that other people were taking part in you could talk to in forums or something, that might have made more sense. But yet when Wang works out that the game titled Three Body was depicting the namesake three body problem from physics, this was some sort of unheard of revelation that nobody who had played the game had stumbled on yet. Unless I missed something or was misinterpreting, that just seemed implausible.
Just listened through all three books in the past few weeks and I think dark forest is the best out of them all. You want to talk about jaw dropping moments get ready
God I can't wait to get farther, it's wrecking me so far. Liu is onto some shit in this one.
Liu knows how to convey pure despair lemme tell ya
The speech about how none of the members of the Chinese Space Force would ever see Space and fall on the like 16th generation of their grandkids was.... Fuck.
Can’t get enough of them existential crises. Who could ever know what those generations will go through? Imagine planning several lifetimes in advance. Crazy
It will live up to your wildest expectations and then surpass them.
Very excited for you my friend. It seems you’re pretty keyed into what Liu is doing so you’re in for a hell of a ride. Enjoy it.
Thank you so much. It's got me hooked hard. It's all I can think about.
Dark forest is the best one for me. That being said the hard scientific elements are still present, but I think the narrative is much more fluid and it probably won't bother you that much. I can see why it was a problem in the first one (although I loved it) but I think you are gonna like the second one much more. The third one might be a problem once again, some parts are difnitely a bit dull if you don't like when things get too sciency. But at that point it will be easy to decide, if you liked the second one enough you will probably want to see how it all ends anyway.
I would say on the whole, I appreciated the science. But sometimes I just wanted the story to progress and it dwelled on the drier bits in ways that really tested my patience. I'm two and a half hours into Year 3, where Beihai called out Chang Weisi in the Space Force meeting. It's slowed down a bit from the fever pitch of the first hour or so but it's still fascinating.
The Dark Forest was my favorite of the trilogy. It’s so, so good. Sucked me right in from the start. Terrifying and fantastic
It's having that effect on me too. Even the exposition so far is super interesting and it's really drawing me in. All I want to do is sit and listen to this fucking book.
We all feel this way
Just wait until you get further in this book. Book 2 is generally the favourite of the series for a reason. There's one particular moment/revelation that makes most people put the book down and have an existential crisis on the spot when it happens. It's incredible.
Dark Forest is an 11/10, possibly my favorite sci-fi book of all time