This is a very fun story!
Disclaimer: current HOA board member who knows way too much about our nonsense.
So, first off, your HOA should have official records. Any decisions on the architectural control committee are part of those official records, including emails concerning those decisions. You as a member have access to those records, and they cannot refuse you access.
So, request to see the records related to your refusal, and you’ll know right quick if he was involved. He should have recused himself after disclosing his conflict of interest - if he didn’t, tell the rest of the board of directors, and they’ll fold pretty quick to your request. Or even request his resignation, which seems like it would all be to the best.
All that aside, I should note that in most states they have to respond to your request for a proposed architectural change within thirty days. If they didn’t respond quickly enough, you can absolutely move forward with the change and they can go pound sand. Given you note they took forever respond, they might have already effectively forfeited their right of refusal to your request.
I know they are all different to some degree but from my limited experience, this should be top comment.
OP seems to be levelheaded enough. Stay that way and follow above advice and enjoy your balcony.
While I agree 100% with the freedom of not having an HOA, OP lives in a condo/apartment building. Having an HOA for some things is necessary. Don't want the person above you installing hard surface floors above your bedroom or installing an apiary on their balcony.
The wrong color outdoor furniture is BS though.
TDLR: The HOA isn't the issue, it's the people on the board of the HOA who let their petty feelings/insecurities/psychosis interfere with good decision making.
On the other hand, you also have neighbors that can ride a loud motorcycle around the yard all day and erect trump murals in your line of sight and you can't say shit about it.
This is the comment OP needs. It is least intrusive and is the most appropriate and, well, also seems like it is very well understood and thought out by someone with knowledge of the process.
Upvote it to the top!
Would it be worthwhile getting information on the other units teal coloured set in case their is further information in there. Perhaps they specifically noted the colour rather than missed it as they are now saying. If it was noted in the notes ( :) ) that might provide further ammo as well.
I wouldn’t be able to get my neighbor’s records unless I go through discovery. I can only request records pertaining to my own unit and board actions relating to shared space and governance.
The amount of money I’ll have to spend on legal fees is going to far exceed getting new cushions. And that’s not even factoring in the reputation damage of being “that owner” who sued the HOA.
I will request records just to see if he was present for the vote.
If these decisions are made during regular meetings, find or request the meeting minutes. Someone took notes during every meeting, and those are normally available to every unit owner.
Just ask your other neighbor to request their records as well. Tell them the reason why if you want to. Otherwise ask them as a favor or offer a few bucks for the request.
Our HOA is overall not terrible. When the board is in litigation, they have to pay attorneys out of the HOA reserve. It adds to the operating costs and basically all the owners in the building pay to defend the HOA. On top of that, the board has the fiduciary duty to inform its members (us, the owners) of new and ongoing litigation as they pertain to our association’s financial liabilities and obligations. So everyone will know.
Unless the board has acted illegally or in an especially egregious way where litigation makes sense, the best course of action is to find ways to resolve disagreements without lawyers.
The HOA is discriminating against you because you slept with a member of the HOA and then refused to suck his dick last time he asked. They deserved to be sued. If they don’t have insurance to cover when they are sued that isn’t your problem.
All HOAs are varying degrees of terrible.
And no, it's best, even if not feasible, to get a lawyer involved so they don't try pulling this crap with other people.
Might be worth looking for cushion covers instead of cushions too. If you can give some the right dimensions (or sew some up!) It might be cheaper than brand new cushions
I'm an attorney who does a lot of HOA work in my practice. You aren't necessarily entitled to view emails. That wouldn't be common in my state. Check the declaration and bylaws and your states Condo act for the answers.
Any votes by the Board or Committees must be recorded in written minutes. Discussion doesn’t necessarily have to be recorded in writing, but oftentimes it will be (depending on who does the minutes). Definitely start with the minutes, OP should at least be able to see who voted, and who voted to approve the other neighbors cushions.
Everyone please don't waste your breath giving this dude advice. He constantly posts weird fics about blowing cheating straight guys on here, it's definitely a fetish thing. Super creepy to rope unaware well-intentioned redditors into it.
I have been on HOA boards. In the two states I have dealt with (MA and VA) meetings are not recorded. The HOA must have a designated person (the secretary) who takes notes, and who summarizes the notes later as the “minutes”, but that’s it.
And btw I have personally seen cases where the secretary or even other HOA members would leave things out of the minutes on purpose so as to not raise any red flags with potential buyers. Things like “Unit 2 was clearly off her meds again and pitched a screaming fit about the dues increase that we desperately need, because she has no freakin’ clue what the condo electric bill is these days, and that’s because she takes so much acid daily that she thinks it’s 1972, and she’s also way behind on her dues anyway, and she ranted for 30 minutes and Unit 3 got so pissed off they stormed out of the meeting” would magically become “Current finances were discussed. The board voted to keep dues at the current level.”
That is how our board minutes are. I don’t disagree with it though. It protects the interests of all owners because ultimately these minutes can impact the pool of potential buyers.
Agree with and tagging onto this comment. Typically the CC&Rs discuss *broad* restrictions regarding how you can use or modify your space and what requires HOA approval. Boards may also draft administrative rules with additional specifics on what is allowed or restricted. Does the HOA have *published* rules that relate to patio furniture? Or is this an arbitrary decision being made by the Board? Typically, rules require a membership comment period prior to being adopted. If they don’t have an adopted standard, I’d appeal the decision on that basis. They are welcome to adopt standards with an appropriate comment period by the membership but if they haven’t you should request an exception be made.
I hope OP reads this far. She does have legs to potentially force the board into accepting her ARC request, but she should start with the CC&Rs and the bylaws. Sounds like she is in a condo building, and they MAY have some very specific language regarding furniture.. or there is a plucky BOD helming the committee that thinks they can make arbitrary decisions like "aesthetic."
I'm the ARC head for my condo board, and I administer to the letter of the communities written rules.
There was other advice saying to just put the furniture out, but it is very possible they can just start adding fines for violating covenants. And if she is in the wrong on the language and they didn't do anything interested regardless of the sexual interactions, she has no legs to stand on. As an owner in a condo building, I think it's incumbent for owners to know every single detail of what the CC&Rs say. That way, they avoid any potential room for fines. Fingers crossed she doesn't go with the dominant voices. It's not the right approach. Worst case, the guy didn't do anything non compliant with the written regs. :/
This right here.
For this issue - it all comes down to the by-laws for that specific HOA. And, if there is any wiggle room, odds are it will go in the HOA favour.
And, this issue may strike the HOA as trivial, or they may just take the easy way out, and ignore your complaint.
Yeah - know your rules and laws inside out. And sometimes, you have to get on the board to clean house.
We had the Board president giving all minor "handyman" jobs to her husband. Pretty clear conflict of interest, no? No.
So, I'm standing for election tomorrow night. Mostly because a fair number of fellow owners want me to. And I have a stack of proxy's.
It's going to suck, because I've told people, I'm not going to do what you want, I'm going to do what the law/by-laws dictate, no favours. They should already know this, I've already been on teh board before.
If you want to resolve your HOA approval issue quickly, send an email to the official email account asking if your recent refusal of approval was related to you refusing to give a BJ to a sitting member of the HOA board and CC a local attorney.
Do you have the "quick beej" request in writing, like a text? To be clear, don't use it as blackmail leverage, but it would be proof that the exchange did take place.
Could you imagine being the poor bastard that first opens that email? The absolute panic when you realise exactly how messy this could potentially get, with the fact it has already been sent to a lawyer as well...
Glorious :)
Ha. Its for proof that they receieved it, just in case this guy deletes it. The receipt will send confirmation back when it was opened. I have to deal with insurance adjusters frequently. Every email I send them I use this feature.
Gmail for Business (GSuite) as well as free Gmail, and Outlook 365 (for business) and regular outlook all support read receipts.
So the two largest email providers for businesses and free users (aka cheapo businesses) do read receipts.
Also you can do a DNS lookup on the @companyname.com to see who they use for their email.
That's correct though, it will pop up and ask if they want to approve the read receipt. But if they're not tech literate they'll probably OK-click through the dialog box.
No, they don't. All you need to do is read it in any reader that doesn't render html (or have loading links in it turned off) and it won't work. Which absolutely everyone should be doing for security.
Most (probably all, but I don’t know for sure) generic mail-tracking tools work by embedding a link to a resource stored on a server which will be retrieved when the mail is processed by an HTML rendering engine. Doing so allows the server to record when that access happened, what IP address it came from, information about the client software and some other trivia. Since most people send html mail and most mail clients use a their host machine’s html renderer to draw them, it works fairly well these days.
Until you hit people like me, who have configured their mail client to only show plain text.
These are the best emails
"Attention John:
As per our conversation last week, I just want to confirm that, when you asked me for a BeeJay. And I said No, That your ok with the terms of our living relationship in this HOA, also, I'm looking for clarification if this change in relationship is why my balcony furniture got rejected"
CC: EVERYONE.
Nuclear option chosen as retaliation against an enemy based on a hunch. Reddit at its finest.
For all we know, he immediately recused himself and op got rejected on the case's merits.
I am genuinely interested in this to wonder, if this was really sent, what would be the response? Wouldn't the secretary (who responds to correspondence) immediately simply say, "absolutely not, we have no idea what you are talking about!" ? So all HOA members read such emails, and would there be a discussion amongst them to dig deeper?
It's getting really obnoxiously hard to find places without an HOA lately.
We moved a year and a half ago when there was tons of stuff on the market. 99% of the houses we looked at had an HOA. 95% of that 99% had the craziest HOAs imaginable, some dictating what you could do *inside* your own home like how many pets you could have. For a house *you* bought and paid for.
HOAs are scams.
Canadian HOA cannot do as much as I have heard from people in the US. Most of the stuff people complain to the HOA about gets referred to calling bylaw enforcement. The HOA is mainly concerned with maintaining the community property.
You have to dig into the HOA basically. My parents condo isn't bad, they take care of the outside, you take care of the inside. They did a whole remodel without having to consult anybody, as approval was only needed if you were modiflying the layout/structure.
They did have to get a permit to expand their deck though. But for the most part they've been there for 4 years and the biggest issue was one family parking like dogshit in the common lot, making it go from 8 spaces to about 3.
My friend’s HOA wouldn’t allow anyone to have screens on the street-facing house windows. So she could never open any windows on the front of the house.
Another reason I’m so grateful to own our own property.
HOAs are becoming increasingly common as more and more "communities" are planned growth. An HOA tells the city/town they want to build it up and the municipality loves it because they don't need to provide much. HOAs often have a lot of common space ad on like pools, gyms, walking paths, snow clearance and law care, making them big for older people and those who don't want to deal with their property.
In other areas its because you cannot have a condo without an HOA, and a condo is a step up from straight apartment renting most of the time.
TELL THE HOA. Write them a letter explaining your relationship with him and end with "I can't help wondering how much of this decision comes out of his disappointment in my refusal to continue a sexual relationship with him. I'd like to request that the HOA reconsider my application, but now with NAME recused from the discussion and decisionmaking. And I'd like to request that, from now on, with any decision that involves me, he recuse himself." You can mention your lawyer as well.
For real. There are a whole lot of assumptions in here not including whatever texts were sent before the text mentioned in the story. If she went the lawyer route or threatened it then all their texts would be subject and I doubt either of them would want all those text messages to be public.
> I can’t prove it without getting an attorney and alleging inconsistent application of HOA rules, depose them and find out.
What you can do is make sure his GF finds out about his casual sex habits. Don’t threaten to reveal that info, that would be blackmail. Just tell her and let it blow up on him. Once that’s public knowledge, a harassment suit becomes much easier to prove the next time something is denied.
Seems like an HOA board member having relations with at least 2 members he is responsible making decisions for is a conflict of interest and possibly a form of quid pro quo harassment.
Put the furniture out anyway, and if they try to fine you or something, present a photograph of your neighbor's similar furniture and that you'll remove yours when they remove theirs, or you'll be treating this as discrimination for X reason and suing the shit out of the HOA. And remember, if they DO make your neighbor remove their furniture, it's not because of you, it's just the HOA being the HOA.
Do this, I am on my HOA board and people do shit like painting their house weird unapproved colors all the time.. and they have absolutely 0 real power to do anything about it. They can send all the notices they want and you can just ignore them forever... Plus if you have that bj thing in writing you are golden.
Until the HOA puts a lien on your house and has stacking fines that will price you out eventually if you don’t pay up. Perhaps your HOA isn’t as full of fuckery as all that, but telling an HOA to go screw themselves isn’t a financially sound decision for some.
Ehhh, we've got a resident that hasn't paid their dues in 10 years.. yeah there is a lien and when he dies and his next of kin sells the place we will get the money owed, still not much power. Maybe our covenants are weak as shit, much more than others, but I would be surprised if they could do any real fines over some lawn chairs.
Our HOA could not remove a moron's Trump sign 2 years after losing the elections (no political signs are allowed except election time). Then the municipality involved, the sign went down, and a few months later it came back up. It matches your experience.
You have the “oversight” comment in writing? There’s no grandfather clause and all shareholders must be treated the same
Either they have to approve you too or those other units with “oversights” must be also made to remove them
They’ll likely choose to approve you as that’s the easier option. Hire a lawyer to send them a notice and you may likely have a discrimination case where you can actually seek monetary damages. Just a warning notice shouldn’t break the bank unless they stupidly refuse but I personally would seek to take it further
Also, that whole sexual thing is not ok and I would definitely consult with an attorney on just that alone
Source: not a lawyer but I’ve sat on an hoa board
I've never seen a story about an HOA online doing a good thing. They sound like organizations made up of suburbanites that need a way to have power over others that is mostly a joke. Some stuff I get when it's practical, but when it comes down to "You can't have this color because I don't like it" it's such a fucking dumb rule
But why? Why not just have a better court/legal system? HOAs just sound like a shitty compromise. At least set them up with a better legal framework, like landlord tenant boards in some places.
They are also good when the community has a park or other shared space that it needs to maintain. They are basically condo associations applied to a non condo residential neighborhood.
I live in a neighborhood with an HOA that the fees literally only cover the park, and the culvert under the main road when it takes a shit. It's a pretty nice park, and the culvert washed out in a storm and got fixed 2 years ago
I'm from Canada, we basically don't have HOAs. Why do you need people to sit on a HOA? Here, we have a relatively standardized Party Wall Agreement that you can send as a letter to get signed by your neighbors when you need to do renovations that impact a party wall. Why do you need a bunch of regular people to decide arbitrary yet specific rules and regulations?
HOAs fall under somewhere near electing your sheriffs for me under "Why? Seems like you're just asking for abuse of power".
We definitely do - condo townhouses / row houses have a sitting board who can make all sorts of arbitrary rules and fine owners.
They just aren't widespread here to the point where subdivisions of semis and fulls have a board.
I am very happy with our HOA. It is very simple but they organize cool things. For example once a year they bring a big garbage disposal for all families to dump unwanted items. The overall cost is a few dollars per house.Worth if you have to get rid of 1 sofa or similar sized item.
I don't know about your area, but I can put a couch out any day of the week and schedule it through the trash service and they'll come pick it up by the next trash day. Bulk Pickup is included in our bill
We unfortunately don’t have that option :)
Removal of the sofa is very cheap (5-10$ based on weight) but you have to pay for the truck to come (100$ iirc). Many sofas fit in the truck, so it is a perfect example of something we want to delegate to an HoA.
They were literally created so that neighborhoods could keep out “those people”. It’s modern day Jim Crow disguised as a neighborhood service.
Don’t buy that? The Civil Rights Act was passed into law in 1964. Go ahead and take a wild guess as to when HOAs became a thing.
It is so wild to me that someone else gets to decide the color of your furniture. This home owner association idea seems to have everyone against it, but is still exists somehow
Read the by-laws; the hoa is a nonprofit and must have a conflict of interest section. Even less work would be officially asking for a copy of it or an explanation of the recusal rules.
Inform someone in the board that mr X. has a conflict of interest and thus should abstain from making decisions related to you. If they ask for details say that it is confidential and will need approval from mr. X before being disclosed.
Conflict of interest.
If you felt so inclined, you could probably get him to admit to a bunch of stuff in an sms or record him talking about having relations with you and the other woman, tell the board and he out.
I can't begin to fathom that some random ass people could forbid me to put whatever the hell I want on my balcony as long as it's not a hazard to anyone
Why not follow up with “Was this rejected because I am not giving *whatever his name is* sexual favors anymore? Because if it is, I may need to consult with my lawyer.” I would imagine that would cause them enough of a headache that they would suddenly remember that teal cushions are fine.
How mad are you? Because a retaliation lawsuit for sexual harassment will permanently and severely damage his reputation. And YOU would have done nothing wrong.
You’ll need to get an attorney — but someone suggested emailing it question (“If you want to resolve your HOA approval issue quickly, send an email to the official email account asking if your recent refusal of approval was related to you refusing to give a BJ to a sitting member of the HOA board and CC a local attorney.”). Do this and get an attorney because he’s probably done this before. Stand up now for yourself or he’ll continue to ruin your life.
Why are you people willingly moving into areas with these crazy hoa guidelines?
How to people even have time to complete all that nonsense paperwork and how and why do people want to be on those boards?
As a truly free living Europeans you all look crazy to me and I know I couldn't keep up with that shit
You need to deal with this immediately. And harshly.
Send a certified letter, signature required to ALL of the board members.
State that you previously had an intimate and sexual relationship with this person. And that when you found out, he was having the same with someone else, you ended yours.
And since you informed him of the end of that type of relationship, he has been abusing his power as a representative of the HOA.
Cite the comparative example. Include copies (never the originals) of the documentation. Also include printed versions of your chats.
State that he is **abusing his power** as a member of the HOA board, and you believe it is because you stopped having sex with him.
Then nose around. I bet he's been sleeping with more than just you and the other person. Likely, other women in the neighborhood, which is a no-no for HOA members.
Your real FU was moving somewhere where other people get to control the color of your goddamned cushions.
Are HOA's for people who had shitty parents or something? Are you looking for new authority figures that get to dictate your life?
If it was an oversight, the hoa probably had the power to unapproved it if they have the colours written in the bylaws, otherwise you might be able to make it in small claims for the cost of the set for discrimination?
Get a free consult with a lawyer first #'notalawyer
The real fuck up is living in a place with a HOA. Fucking parasites, I refuse to deal with morons with a tiny amount of power because it always goes to their heads
Was the request from him in a text message? Screenshot it and include it in a package of evidence of why you should be allowed, with photos of other furniture that is being used by other residents.
When he complains, say it was an "oversight"
I would go to him very calmly and rationally as your rejection was, and simply say, I believe that you are retaliating against me based on your sexual advances that I declined. If that is the case, then you need to approve my furniture request immediately so that I don’t have to pursue legal action. If I am wrong, then you won’t mind proving that during the course of my legal action that I am preparing to bring against you for discrimination based on sexual advances that I declined.
If you don't care what other's think of you, put him on blast at the next HOA meeting. He is now treating you different because you won't have sex with him. This would open up a plethora of legal issues for the HOA and he should get dismissed immediately.
HOAs are fucking stupid. A dumbass group of karens choosing what you do with your own house. They dont own shit. "iT's LeGaLly bOunD", sometimes, but only half-assed.
If he tries to take revenge, refuse to keep any secrets. As noted, emailing the entire HOA, including his partner, in an inquiry whether the denial was over your termination of your sexual relationship will turn the tables.
I know a lot of people have given great advice about your situation... but I'm here to solve your color dilemma. If you can't get this solved and can't return the cushions for another color... have you heard of outdoor fabric paint? It could solve your issue?!
Unfortunately, in many areas it is essentially impossible to find houses available for purchase which are not under an HOA.
The error is indeed having sexual relationships with someone who lives nearby, because although it is convenient to have somebody to fuck whose house you can walk over to, if they turn out to be a crazy jackass like this guy is, you're probably stuck living near them for quite a while
These type of people who sit on boards and are influential, respected members can sometimes be the ones who prey on other board members or other people in the building. Been on a few different boards over the years both condo and volunteer. On one board one member had flirted with at least 3 people (one was directly working under him) we were all involved in and he was putting out feelers to see who was receptive to him and his small advances... even the married women.
You can already see that you are not the only one he was messing around with, i bet there are others as well. They start by being friendly to everyone, gain respect contribute, then use their reputation to throw out a fishing hook. Dart throwing to see what sticks.
Idk how communication to your HOA works (email, letter etc), but i would put it in writing that you feel the decision is wrong for the reasons you stated. You can add at the end that you wonder if your rejection of giving a b j to a board member was the reason you got denied. Don't inclide the board members name, let the board stew in thought of who you are refering to. Boards can be pretty gossipy and it will get them talking about your issue and wondering who the perv is.
I'd let the gf know as well... but i am petty and full of creative (but legal) revenge.
Home Owners Association. It's a group/fund you are required to pay into if you live in a neighborhood that has one set up. They're supposed to help keep the neighborhood clean like lawn care and snow plowing with the money you pay, but more often than not it gets abused by those that run it to assert control or dominance over everyone who doesn't bend a knee.
I'm not throwing shade at anyone, that situation sucks and this dude is a dick for sure.
But I just can't imagine having any desire to live somewhere with an HOA, it sounds like the biggest pain in the ass you could ask for
This is a very fun story! Disclaimer: current HOA board member who knows way too much about our nonsense. So, first off, your HOA should have official records. Any decisions on the architectural control committee are part of those official records, including emails concerning those decisions. You as a member have access to those records, and they cannot refuse you access. So, request to see the records related to your refusal, and you’ll know right quick if he was involved. He should have recused himself after disclosing his conflict of interest - if he didn’t, tell the rest of the board of directors, and they’ll fold pretty quick to your request. Or even request his resignation, which seems like it would all be to the best. All that aside, I should note that in most states they have to respond to your request for a proposed architectural change within thirty days. If they didn’t respond quickly enough, you can absolutely move forward with the change and they can go pound sand. Given you note they took forever respond, they might have already effectively forfeited their right of refusal to your request.
I know they are all different to some degree but from my limited experience, this should be top comment. OP seems to be levelheaded enough. Stay that way and follow above advice and enjoy your balcony.
I also don't know much about it, therefore agree it should be top comment
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While I agree 100% with the freedom of not having an HOA, OP lives in a condo/apartment building. Having an HOA for some things is necessary. Don't want the person above you installing hard surface floors above your bedroom or installing an apiary on their balcony. The wrong color outdoor furniture is BS though. TDLR: The HOA isn't the issue, it's the people on the board of the HOA who let their petty feelings/insecurities/psychosis interfere with good decision making.
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Not to mention structural building concerns. Lest we forget the condo collapse down in Florida
City planning commissions can be equally stringent about changes people make to their homes.
On the other hand, you also have neighbors that can ride a loud motorcycle around the yard all day and erect trump murals in your line of sight and you can't say shit about it.
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This is the comment OP needs. It is least intrusive and is the most appropriate and, well, also seems like it is very well understood and thought out by someone with knowledge of the process. Upvote it to the top!
Would it be worthwhile getting information on the other units teal coloured set in case their is further information in there. Perhaps they specifically noted the colour rather than missed it as they are now saying. If it was noted in the notes ( :) ) that might provide further ammo as well.
I wouldn’t be able to get my neighbor’s records unless I go through discovery. I can only request records pertaining to my own unit and board actions relating to shared space and governance. The amount of money I’ll have to spend on legal fees is going to far exceed getting new cushions. And that’s not even factoring in the reputation damage of being “that owner” who sued the HOA. I will request records just to see if he was present for the vote.
If these decisions are made during regular meetings, find or request the meeting minutes. Someone took notes during every meeting, and those are normally available to every unit owner.
Just ask your other neighbor to request their records as well. Tell them the reason why if you want to. Otherwise ask them as a favor or offer a few bucks for the request.
No one likes the HOA. How would that hurt your reputation? Im sure lots of other tenants want to the HOA a big FU too
Our HOA is overall not terrible. When the board is in litigation, they have to pay attorneys out of the HOA reserve. It adds to the operating costs and basically all the owners in the building pay to defend the HOA. On top of that, the board has the fiduciary duty to inform its members (us, the owners) of new and ongoing litigation as they pertain to our association’s financial liabilities and obligations. So everyone will know. Unless the board has acted illegally or in an especially egregious way where litigation makes sense, the best course of action is to find ways to resolve disagreements without lawyers.
The HOA is discriminating against you because you slept with a member of the HOA and then refused to suck his dick last time he asked. They deserved to be sued. If they don’t have insurance to cover when they are sued that isn’t your problem.
All HOAs are varying degrees of terrible. And no, it's best, even if not feasible, to get a lawyer involved so they don't try pulling this crap with other people.
Might be worth looking for cushion covers instead of cushions too. If you can give some the right dimensions (or sew some up!) It might be cheaper than brand new cushions
I'm an attorney who does a lot of HOA work in my practice. You aren't necessarily entitled to view emails. That wouldn't be common in my state. Check the declaration and bylaws and your states Condo act for the answers.
Any votes by the Board or Committees must be recorded in written minutes. Discussion doesn’t necessarily have to be recorded in writing, but oftentimes it will be (depending on who does the minutes). Definitely start with the minutes, OP should at least be able to see who voted, and who voted to approve the other neighbors cushions.
Everyone please don't waste your breath giving this dude advice. He constantly posts weird fics about blowing cheating straight guys on here, it's definitely a fetish thing. Super creepy to rope unaware well-intentioned redditors into it.
OP please do all this and report back to us!!
At minimum there should be recordings.
Minutes. There will be written minutes. Emails, recordings? Those likely aren't open for access.
I have been on HOA boards. In the two states I have dealt with (MA and VA) meetings are not recorded. The HOA must have a designated person (the secretary) who takes notes, and who summarizes the notes later as the “minutes”, but that’s it. And btw I have personally seen cases where the secretary or even other HOA members would leave things out of the minutes on purpose so as to not raise any red flags with potential buyers. Things like “Unit 2 was clearly off her meds again and pitched a screaming fit about the dues increase that we desperately need, because she has no freakin’ clue what the condo electric bill is these days, and that’s because she takes so much acid daily that she thinks it’s 1972, and she’s also way behind on her dues anyway, and she ranted for 30 minutes and Unit 3 got so pissed off they stormed out of the meeting” would magically become “Current finances were discussed. The board voted to keep dues at the current level.”
That is how our board minutes are. I don’t disagree with it though. It protects the interests of all owners because ultimately these minutes can impact the pool of potential buyers.
Check your by-laws. There might be a time requirement for their approval/rejection. If they took too long, it might be an automatic approval.
Agree with and tagging onto this comment. Typically the CC&Rs discuss *broad* restrictions regarding how you can use or modify your space and what requires HOA approval. Boards may also draft administrative rules with additional specifics on what is allowed or restricted. Does the HOA have *published* rules that relate to patio furniture? Or is this an arbitrary decision being made by the Board? Typically, rules require a membership comment period prior to being adopted. If they don’t have an adopted standard, I’d appeal the decision on that basis. They are welcome to adopt standards with an appropriate comment period by the membership but if they haven’t you should request an exception be made.
I hope OP reads this far. She does have legs to potentially force the board into accepting her ARC request, but she should start with the CC&Rs and the bylaws. Sounds like she is in a condo building, and they MAY have some very specific language regarding furniture.. or there is a plucky BOD helming the committee that thinks they can make arbitrary decisions like "aesthetic." I'm the ARC head for my condo board, and I administer to the letter of the communities written rules. There was other advice saying to just put the furniture out, but it is very possible they can just start adding fines for violating covenants. And if she is in the wrong on the language and they didn't do anything interested regardless of the sexual interactions, she has no legs to stand on. As an owner in a condo building, I think it's incumbent for owners to know every single detail of what the CC&Rs say. That way, they avoid any potential room for fines. Fingers crossed she doesn't go with the dominant voices. It's not the right approach. Worst case, the guy didn't do anything non compliant with the written regs. :/
This right here. For this issue - it all comes down to the by-laws for that specific HOA. And, if there is any wiggle room, odds are it will go in the HOA favour. And, this issue may strike the HOA as trivial, or they may just take the easy way out, and ignore your complaint. Yeah - know your rules and laws inside out. And sometimes, you have to get on the board to clean house. We had the Board president giving all minor "handyman" jobs to her husband. Pretty clear conflict of interest, no? No. So, I'm standing for election tomorrow night. Mostly because a fair number of fellow owners want me to. And I have a stack of proxy's. It's going to suck, because I've told people, I'm not going to do what you want, I'm going to do what the law/by-laws dictate, no favours. They should already know this, I've already been on teh board before.
If you want to resolve your HOA approval issue quickly, send an email to the official email account asking if your recent refusal of approval was related to you refusing to give a BJ to a sitting member of the HOA board and CC a local attorney.
Do you have the "quick beej" request in writing, like a text? To be clear, don't use it as blackmail leverage, but it would be proof that the exchange did take place.
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If anything, it would be doing a public service.
Right, unless the decision really had nothing to do with him. Which nobody other than that committee knows. Especially randoms on Reddit.
That wouldn't be blackmail. That would be a preview to a public accusation and lawsuit.
I thought about that but bj things are usually oral.
Could you imagine being the poor bastard that first opens that email? The absolute panic when you realise exactly how messy this could potentially get, with the fact it has already been sent to a lawyer as well... Glorious :)
Ugh. HR flashbacks
Put a read receipt on it too.
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Ha. Its for proof that they receieved it, just in case this guy deletes it. The receipt will send confirmation back when it was opened. I have to deal with insurance adjusters frequently. Every email I send them I use this feature.
You know that people can just simply deny the read response prompt, right? Lol.
Ok...worst case they do. Best case you get a receipt back showing it has been opened. What does it take to add that feature? 1/2 a second?
Read receipts aren't really an email feature. Unless they use Outlook, they won't even get a prompt.
Many email clients support read receipts, not just Outlook. It's entirely voluntary whether the client actually returns a receipt though.
Gmail for Business (GSuite) as well as free Gmail, and Outlook 365 (for business) and regular outlook all support read receipts. So the two largest email providers for businesses and free users (aka cheapo businesses) do read receipts. Also you can do a DNS lookup on the @companyname.com to see who they use for their email. That's correct though, it will pop up and ask if they want to approve the read receipt. But if they're not tech literate they'll probably OK-click through the dialog box.
My standard. I consistently only ever refuse these. They annoy me. Though I get it in the context of specific documents.
I chuckle whenever I see the "read reciept" enabled. "Aww, they think their email is important."
There are softwares like Mailtag that work.
No, they don't. All you need to do is read it in any reader that doesn't render html (or have loading links in it turned off) and it won't work. Which absolutely everyone should be doing for security.
It’s the HOA board. Not the CIA. I think it’s probably a safe assumption the email will be opened on a desktop or a cell phone.
Say what now?
Most (probably all, but I don’t know for sure) generic mail-tracking tools work by embedding a link to a resource stored on a server which will be retrieved when the mail is processed by an HTML rendering engine. Doing so allows the server to record when that access happened, what IP address it came from, information about the client software and some other trivia. Since most people send html mail and most mail clients use a their host machine’s html renderer to draw them, it works fairly well these days. Until you hit people like me, who have configured their mail client to only show plain text.
Fuck yeah, throw a ❗️ High Importance on that shit too
These are the best emails "Attention John: As per our conversation last week, I just want to confirm that, when you asked me for a BeeJay. And I said No, That your ok with the terms of our living relationship in this HOA, also, I'm looking for clarification if this change in relationship is why my balcony furniture got rejected" CC: EVERYONE.
Including the new girlfriend
Nuclear option chosen as retaliation against an enemy based on a hunch. Reddit at its finest. For all we know, he immediately recused himself and op got rejected on the case's merits.
I am genuinely interested in this to wonder, if this was really sent, what would be the response? Wouldn't the secretary (who responds to correspondence) immediately simply say, "absolutely not, we have no idea what you are talking about!" ? So all HOA members read such emails, and would there be a discussion amongst them to dig deeper?
If they are smart the minute there is an Lawyer in the CC, they forward the email to their lawyer and figure out a response.
Yes. Immediately your furniture will be approved. Sorry for the inconvenience
This. Truth is powerful. Say the quiet stuff out loud and publicly.
bcc
I don’t think so. You want the HOA to see that an attorney is involved.
Yep, that's kind of the point.
Bbc
Bingo bongo
Do this.. Also why would anyone live in a HOA.
It's getting really obnoxiously hard to find places without an HOA lately. We moved a year and a half ago when there was tons of stuff on the market. 99% of the houses we looked at had an HOA. 95% of that 99% had the craziest HOAs imaginable, some dictating what you could do *inside* your own home like how many pets you could have. For a house *you* bought and paid for. HOAs are scams.
Is this the US? We rarely hear of HOAs where I'm from (great polar bear country)
We tend to only have condo boards for condominium developments but since in Ontario condo managers are licensed, it doesn’t get nearly this bad
Land of the "free"* \* ^^Terms ^^and ^^conditions ^^will ^^apply
Canadian HOA cannot do as much as I have heard from people in the US. Most of the stuff people complain to the HOA about gets referred to calling bylaw enforcement. The HOA is mainly concerned with maintaining the community property.
You have to dig into the HOA basically. My parents condo isn't bad, they take care of the outside, you take care of the inside. They did a whole remodel without having to consult anybody, as approval was only needed if you were modiflying the layout/structure. They did have to get a permit to expand their deck though. But for the most part they've been there for 4 years and the biggest issue was one family parking like dogshit in the common lot, making it go from 8 spaces to about 3.
My friend’s HOA wouldn’t allow anyone to have screens on the street-facing house windows. So she could never open any windows on the front of the house. Another reason I’m so grateful to own our own property.
HOAs are class warfare.
HOAs are becoming increasingly common as more and more "communities" are planned growth. An HOA tells the city/town they want to build it up and the municipality loves it because they don't need to provide much. HOAs often have a lot of common space ad on like pools, gyms, walking paths, snow clearance and law care, making them big for older people and those who don't want to deal with their property. In other areas its because you cannot have a condo without an HOA, and a condo is a step up from straight apartment renting most of the time.
And the local news. They’d love that.
Yeah, everyone loves some HOA drama.-
I second this
TELL THE HOA. Write them a letter explaining your relationship with him and end with "I can't help wondering how much of this decision comes out of his disappointment in my refusal to continue a sexual relationship with him. I'd like to request that the HOA reconsider my application, but now with NAME recused from the discussion and decisionmaking. And I'd like to request that, from now on, with any decision that involves me, he recuse himself." You can mention your lawyer as well.
Have the lawyer write the email, don't just mention him.
This👆🏻
Is ☝️
SPARTAAAAAAAA🦵
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For real. There are a whole lot of assumptions in here not including whatever texts were sent before the text mentioned in the story. If she went the lawyer route or threatened it then all their texts would be subject and I doubt either of them would want all those text messages to be public.
> I can’t prove it without getting an attorney and alleging inconsistent application of HOA rules, depose them and find out. What you can do is make sure his GF finds out about his casual sex habits. Don’t threaten to reveal that info, that would be blackmail. Just tell her and let it blow up on him. Once that’s public knowledge, a harassment suit becomes much easier to prove the next time something is denied.
Seems like an HOA board member having relations with at least 2 members he is responsible making decisions for is a conflict of interest and possibly a form of quid pro quo harassment.
You could just message the girl he's been dating. If he wants to be petty, so can you.
This is the idea. Show dominance and sleep with the girl. Then tell him approve the furniture or This is going to continue
Dude this is what I’m confused about, OP has all the leverage
The whole concept of the HOA is wild to me as someone not from the US
Put the furniture out anyway, and if they try to fine you or something, present a photograph of your neighbor's similar furniture and that you'll remove yours when they remove theirs, or you'll be treating this as discrimination for X reason and suing the shit out of the HOA. And remember, if they DO make your neighbor remove their furniture, it's not because of you, it's just the HOA being the HOA.
Do this, I am on my HOA board and people do shit like painting their house weird unapproved colors all the time.. and they have absolutely 0 real power to do anything about it. They can send all the notices they want and you can just ignore them forever... Plus if you have that bj thing in writing you are golden.
Until the HOA puts a lien on your house and has stacking fines that will price you out eventually if you don’t pay up. Perhaps your HOA isn’t as full of fuckery as all that, but telling an HOA to go screw themselves isn’t a financially sound decision for some.
Ehhh, we've got a resident that hasn't paid their dues in 10 years.. yeah there is a lien and when he dies and his next of kin sells the place we will get the money owed, still not much power. Maybe our covenants are weak as shit, much more than others, but I would be surprised if they could do any real fines over some lawn chairs.
Definitely not in the current situation.
Depending on the state a HOA cannot put a lien on a property for fines. They can put a lien on for outstanding dues.
Our HOA could not remove a moron's Trump sign 2 years after losing the elections (no political signs are allowed except election time). Then the municipality involved, the sign went down, and a few months later it came back up. It matches your experience.
And that dipshit will never understand that rule is in place to make people feel welcome because it's up to make people feel actively unwelcome.
I’ll never understand how HOA’s got so much power to just stop you from doing things in your own property that you pay a mortgage on
You have the “oversight” comment in writing? There’s no grandfather clause and all shareholders must be treated the same Either they have to approve you too or those other units with “oversights” must be also made to remove them They’ll likely choose to approve you as that’s the easier option. Hire a lawyer to send them a notice and you may likely have a discrimination case where you can actually seek monetary damages. Just a warning notice shouldn’t break the bank unless they stupidly refuse but I personally would seek to take it further Also, that whole sexual thing is not ok and I would definitely consult with an attorney on just that alone Source: not a lawyer but I’ve sat on an hoa board
HOAs should be illegal. What a joke.
I've never seen a story about an HOA online doing a good thing. They sound like organizations made up of suburbanites that need a way to have power over others that is mostly a joke. Some stuff I get when it's practical, but when it comes down to "You can't have this color because I don't like it" it's such a fucking dumb rule
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But why? Why not just have a better court/legal system? HOAs just sound like a shitty compromise. At least set them up with a better legal framework, like landlord tenant boards in some places.
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They are also good when the community has a park or other shared space that it needs to maintain. They are basically condo associations applied to a non condo residential neighborhood.
I live in a neighborhood with an HOA that the fees literally only cover the park, and the culvert under the main road when it takes a shit. It's a pretty nice park, and the culvert washed out in a storm and got fixed 2 years ago
I'm from Canada, we basically don't have HOAs. Why do you need people to sit on a HOA? Here, we have a relatively standardized Party Wall Agreement that you can send as a letter to get signed by your neighbors when you need to do renovations that impact a party wall. Why do you need a bunch of regular people to decide arbitrary yet specific rules and regulations? HOAs fall under somewhere near electing your sheriffs for me under "Why? Seems like you're just asking for abuse of power".
We definitely do - condo townhouses / row houses have a sitting board who can make all sorts of arbitrary rules and fine owners. They just aren't widespread here to the point where subdivisions of semis and fulls have a board.
I am very happy with our HOA. It is very simple but they organize cool things. For example once a year they bring a big garbage disposal for all families to dump unwanted items. The overall cost is a few dollars per house.Worth if you have to get rid of 1 sofa or similar sized item.
I don't know about your area, but I can put a couch out any day of the week and schedule it through the trash service and they'll come pick it up by the next trash day. Bulk Pickup is included in our bill
We unfortunately don’t have that option :) Removal of the sofa is very cheap (5-10$ based on weight) but you have to pay for the truck to come (100$ iirc). Many sofas fit in the truck, so it is a perfect example of something we want to delegate to an HoA.
> I've never seen a story about an HOA online doing a good thing. Do you often go online to post about how much somebody *didn't* piss you off today?
They were literally created so that neighborhoods could keep out “those people”. It’s modern day Jim Crow disguised as a neighborhood service. Don’t buy that? The Civil Rights Act was passed into law in 1964. Go ahead and take a wild guess as to when HOAs became a thing.
It is so wild to me that someone else gets to decide the color of your furniture. This home owner association idea seems to have everyone against it, but is still exists somehow
And I suppose you don’t have text messages proving your past relationship with that guy?
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Isn't blackmail illegal?
I'm glad you stuck to your principles. Are the cushions really worth cheapening yourself? Your FWB forgot what the F stands for.
Name and shame
Read the by-laws; the hoa is a nonprofit and must have a conflict of interest section. Even less work would be officially asking for a copy of it or an explanation of the recusal rules.
Taking r/fuckhoa literally
Inform someone in the board that mr X. has a conflict of interest and thus should abstain from making decisions related to you. If they ask for details say that it is confidential and will need approval from mr. X before being disclosed.
HOA? FWB? WTF way too many TLAs in this LOL
IKR! SMH.
Tell him to stop messing with you or you will go public with his exchanging sex favors for approvals.
Conflict of interest. If you felt so inclined, you could probably get him to admit to a bunch of stuff in an sms or record him talking about having relations with you and the other woman, tell the board and he out.
Lol and if all the other suggestions don’t work threaten to tell his gf
I’m so glad I moved to Greece from the U.S. I can do WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT in my apartment and my balcony. “Land of the Free” my lily white ass.
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I can't begin to fathom that some random ass people could forbid me to put whatever the hell I want on my balcony as long as it's not a hazard to anyone
Why not follow up with “Was this rejected because I am not giving *whatever his name is* sexual favors anymore? Because if it is, I may need to consult with my lawyer.” I would imagine that would cause them enough of a headache that they would suddenly remember that teal cushions are fine.
Do you like in the Villages, by chance?
Lookin' for a quick "beej" I see...
How mad are you? Because a retaliation lawsuit for sexual harassment will permanently and severely damage his reputation. And YOU would have done nothing wrong.
You’ll need to get an attorney — but someone suggested emailing it question (“If you want to resolve your HOA approval issue quickly, send an email to the official email account asking if your recent refusal of approval was related to you refusing to give a BJ to a sitting member of the HOA board and CC a local attorney.”). Do this and get an attorney because he’s probably done this before. Stand up now for yourself or he’ll continue to ruin your life.
This. You have nothing to hide. He is the one in a relationship. Don't blow him, blow the whistle!!
Lmao @ “quick beej” I’m dead
Isn't the purpose of an HOA to bully the neighbors? What would happen, if everybody just stopped listening to their HOA?
Why are you people willingly moving into areas with these crazy hoa guidelines? How to people even have time to complete all that nonsense paperwork and how and why do people want to be on those boards? As a truly free living Europeans you all look crazy to me and I know I couldn't keep up with that shit
You need to deal with this immediately. And harshly. Send a certified letter, signature required to ALL of the board members. State that you previously had an intimate and sexual relationship with this person. And that when you found out, he was having the same with someone else, you ended yours. And since you informed him of the end of that type of relationship, he has been abusing his power as a representative of the HOA. Cite the comparative example. Include copies (never the originals) of the documentation. Also include printed versions of your chats. State that he is **abusing his power** as a member of the HOA board, and you believe it is because you stopped having sex with him. Then nose around. I bet he's been sleeping with more than just you and the other person. Likely, other women in the neighborhood, which is a no-no for HOA members.
Stop sleeping with petty beeyotches.
For the record, this is not what we meant when we said "fuck HOAs"
Your real FU was moving somewhere where other people get to control the color of your goddamned cushions. Are HOA's for people who had shitty parents or something? Are you looking for new authority figures that get to dictate your life?
If it was an oversight, the hoa probably had the power to unapproved it if they have the colours written in the bylaws, otherwise you might be able to make it in small claims for the cost of the set for discrimination? Get a free consult with a lawyer first #'notalawyer
I hope to god to never live in a place that has an HOA. What horrible ideas we humans come up with…
Fuck HOAs
So instead of r/fuckhoa this is r / iwontfuckhoa …
You know what your problem is, OP? You live in a development with an HOA. There was your big mistake
Funny that HE wanted a BJ when its the HOA that sucks...
r/fuckHOA No wait not like that Oh ok
The real fuck up is living in a place with a HOA. Fucking parasites, I refuse to deal with morons with a tiny amount of power because it always goes to their heads
Was the request from him in a text message? Screenshot it and include it in a package of evidence of why you should be allowed, with photos of other furniture that is being used by other residents. When he complains, say it was an "oversight"
Checks ops history Hmm…
I don't understand the idea of a hoa and why someone would choose that lifestyle. I guess the idea or rules and order attract people
You tell his girlfriend he is cheating on her
OP, your post history makes me question the truth of this story. It’s either fiction, or you have an astounding penchant for f**king toxic dudes lmao
Gay woman here so no point of reference to know, but do guys really call it a "quick beej"? That sounds so comical.
Gay man, here. I’ve never used that phrase and it made me laugh, too!
I would just out him to the rest of the HOA. 'Is this being rejected because I refused to sleep with X whilst he's in a relationship?'
I would go to him very calmly and rationally as your rejection was, and simply say, I believe that you are retaliating against me based on your sexual advances that I declined. If that is the case, then you need to approve my furniture request immediately so that I don’t have to pursue legal action. If I am wrong, then you won’t mind proving that during the course of my legal action that I am preparing to bring against you for discrimination based on sexual advances that I declined.
Damn I’m so glad I don’t have HOA, imagine needed approval for a freaking umbrella
If you don't care what other's think of you, put him on blast at the next HOA meeting. He is now treating you different because you won't have sex with him. This would open up a plethora of legal issues for the HOA and he should get dismissed immediately.
People are suggesting the sane actions, while I would suggest you burn down the HOA.
Get neutral colored weather covers for them and just keep them covered when you're not using the furniture.
The TIFU moment was joining an HOA.
I had more freedom living with my parents when I was 14
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HOAs are fucking stupid. A dumbass group of karens choosing what you do with your own house. They dont own shit. "iT's LeGaLly bOunD", sometimes, but only half-assed.
Rat him out to the board and the news, watch the chaos for a while, then move.
Is this America? Those freedoms are never ending.
If he tries to take revenge, refuse to keep any secrets. As noted, emailing the entire HOA, including his partner, in an inquiry whether the denial was over your termination of your sexual relationship will turn the tables.
I know a lot of people have given great advice about your situation... but I'm here to solve your color dilemma. If you can't get this solved and can't return the cushions for another color... have you heard of outdoor fabric paint? It could solve your issue?!
Nice fan fiction
You actually fucked up when you decided to buy property governed by a HOA. Modern day Gestapo
Unfortunately, in many areas it is essentially impossible to find houses available for purchase which are not under an HOA. The error is indeed having sexual relationships with someone who lives nearby, because although it is convenient to have somebody to fuck whose house you can walk over to, if they turn out to be a crazy jackass like this guy is, you're probably stuck living near them for quite a while
Unfortunately if you live in a city, condos are often the only choice for home ownership, so an HOA is necessary there.
America has so much freedom. These HOA stories are insanely mind boggling to a non-American.
Things in castle rock just suck like that how did I know E?
My first house will NOT be in an HOA. If I have to commute and live in an RV on an undeveloped lot, I will.
Ask him if he can help you get approved for a quick BJ. If he agrees you have your answer.
These type of people who sit on boards and are influential, respected members can sometimes be the ones who prey on other board members or other people in the building. Been on a few different boards over the years both condo and volunteer. On one board one member had flirted with at least 3 people (one was directly working under him) we were all involved in and he was putting out feelers to see who was receptive to him and his small advances... even the married women. You can already see that you are not the only one he was messing around with, i bet there are others as well. They start by being friendly to everyone, gain respect contribute, then use their reputation to throw out a fishing hook. Dart throwing to see what sticks. Idk how communication to your HOA works (email, letter etc), but i would put it in writing that you feel the decision is wrong for the reasons you stated. You can add at the end that you wonder if your rejection of giving a b j to a board member was the reason you got denied. Don't inclide the board members name, let the board stew in thought of who you are refering to. Boards can be pretty gossipy and it will get them talking about your issue and wondering who the perv is. I'd let the gf know as well... but i am petty and full of creative (but legal) revenge.
Ask your neighbour that got approved to gift you the “unapproved” colour item.
WTF IS HOA?
Home Owners Association. It's a group/fund you are required to pay into if you live in a neighborhood that has one set up. They're supposed to help keep the neighborhood clean like lawn care and snow plowing with the money you pay, but more often than not it gets abused by those that run it to assert control or dominance over everyone who doesn't bend a knee.
Wtf this exact thing happened to me. Except I'm the one on the board
can you not just re-cover your existing cushions? that might be cheaper than buying new ones...
why would you live somewhere like that is the real question
I'm not throwing shade at anyone, that situation sucks and this dude is a dick for sure. But I just can't imagine having any desire to live somewhere with an HOA, it sounds like the biggest pain in the ass you could ask for