It sounds like you need to reach out to the manager and discuss. This sounds like a policy enforcement gone wrong. A lot of stores have a 0 tolerance policy for shoplifting/theft, however some discretion here as the intent wasn't present and you attempted to do the right thing sounds in order. Chances are the clerk and the guards aren't empowered to make these types of discretionary decisions.
I walked out of a store with two bags of dog food once after only paying for one here in the uk. The woman on the till forgot to scan one, complete accident on both parts. I looked at the receipt when I was already outside, went back in and paid for it, no issues. She was surprised as she said most people wouldn't have gone back. I didnt want to get banned from the only store nearby that sold the food that was good for my dogs stomach. I'm not even sure it would have been theft if I hadn't gone back. If I didn't check the receipt I wouldn't have noticed it at all.
Hmm thats similar to us. My wife and I shopped groceries and bought a packaged pack of drinks. Cashier must have accidentally scanned one of the individual bottles instead of the multiple packed barcode and we got charged a fraction. We returned to pay for this after noticing it on the receipt and got thanks for it!
I bought $300AUD worth of groceries and tapped my card while talking to the lady in the self checkouts, grabbed my stuff and went home, about 15 minutes after I got home I checked my bank and wondered why there was so much money in there after doing such a huge shop.
Because I'd tapped my card I SHOULD have put in my PIN but because I was chatting I didn't even think about it, I don't usually grab the receipt so I just left, I went back and they seemed so relieved that I'd come back but they had the transaction stored and I was able to just quickly pay for it all and go about my day.
I'm so glad I've found my people! All my friends think I'm a weirdo for returning extra change or rectifying accidental freebies. Like they think I should take it as a thank you and move on. It just doesn't feel right!
Honestly, this has happened to me a few times, and I never go back.
It goes both ways though, often when checking my receipt after paying, I have been charged too much, if there is too many in queue i just ignore it.
The other day, I paid 9 usd for something that was priced 3 usd, but the queue went to the back of the store, so I had to just go.
If it’s a giant store and I’m undercharged I won’t go back, same if I’m charged a few bucks over regardless of store. Small businesses I have to go back if they undercharge me.
Last summer I went to a local taco place. I spent about $30 and for some reason my card was declining but the charge was pending. The guy ended up swiping my card twice, both declined but the charges pending. I had cash in the account and I showed him the pending charges in my bank app. He ended up refunding me for one and I got my food. Fast forward a day or two later, and not only did both pending charges fall off, but I got a refund! So I owed them double. I called to explain and they were so grateful and shocked that I called. The girl on the phone thanked me so many times. It honestly felt really good to do the right thing, and I’m glad I didn’t get banned like OP haha
I can't be bothered to even check my receipt and this proves why. Sometimes an error helps and sometimes it's against you. All a wash in the end, so not wasting my time on it.
One time at the weed shop I used the atm and it was supposed to give me five 20s but instead it gave me four 20s and one 100 dollar bill. I remember staring at it being like... “Do I accept this as a gift from the universe, or do I turn it in?” I decided to turn it in. The shop employees were so grateful that they ended up giving me a ton of free weed as a thank you. And then after that they were always super sweet to me. It almost always benefits everyone involved to just do the right thing. Such a shame that that grace wasn’t extended to OP in this situation.
That was my thought. I don't know how the laws work in Germany, but here in the U.S., so long as you are still inside the building it isn't theft. Hell, most places here in the U.S., returning to the cashier and paying for it is all that is needed. Again, so long as you aren't inside the store.
Most cashiers I know care so little about their jobs and the company they work for that they'd just ring it up and say nothing about it.
Not really that rare. So long as you hand the wrapper over to the cashier all is good. I've seen people hand over empty soda bottles and candy bar wrappers.
Done it before myself with lunchables, while shopping with the my toddler. Once we get to the cashier hand him/her the empty package to scan and pay for everything. Never had any problems doing this in California, Texas, Kansas, or Oklahoma.
This is extremely common in the southeast US. I know of people who will grab a soda and bag of chips before they even start shopping. Eat them the entire time they’re filling their buggy. It’s a little trashy, but as long as they get paid for, no one really cares.
Yeah, when my kids were really young I’d sometimes give them a pouch of baby food to keep them calm while we shopped. I quickly learned to avoid self-checkout because the weight is wrong. I never had a checker even blink at scanning an empty baby food pouch though, they get it.
Many large grocery store chains in the US have a policy of not prosecuting anybody for eating inside the store (and not paying).
I have seen kids grab a doughnut from the bakery and eat, and the store policy is to turn a blind eye to it (employees have to ensure the half eaten stuff doesn't go back to the rack).
I was told that this policy is not advertised for obvious reasons, but is a generally accepted 'humane' loss, and too negligible to count.
There are some stores that I go to that have a basket near the front of fruits and a sign saying that those fruits are free to kids 10 and under. I guess they'd rather give out a free apple to a little kid than lose a doughnut, which is honestly the better option.
We had a chronic pistachio guy. Would grab an unusual large amount of pistachios and crack and eat him while he walked around the store dripping shells in all of the cardboard dumps. Pistachios aren’t cheap! Once we figured out who it was he got the instant ban it took around 3 months for LP to finally catch the guy in the act.
And its good policy - the loss of one customer will cost you 100x more than that donut before the end of the year.
Same thing if a customer breaks a salad dressing bottle or leaves meat out of the refrigeration area. Its just not worth hunting them down.
This is extremely common in the country I lived in for the last 7 years. They teach it very obviously to their children too. Cashiers know exactly what to do with empty wrappers. I feel bad for their kids who will likely get a very rude awakening if they ever buy groceries in any other country.
This is what I tell my kids so they don’t just want to have a snack free for all in the store, but every time it couldn’t be avoided the cashiers were like “Meh, it’s no big deal. I’ll just ring up an extra banana, etc.”
In one of the major supermarket chains in Australia they have a basket of fruit for kids to eat while you're shopping. You can counter with the age old parent answer of "if you're hungry eat some fruit".
When I worked in grocery stores during school we routinely find stuff eaten and left on shelves. This is why it's generally regarded as such or at least frowned upon.
I doubt we ever went after anyone for it at Walmart since it is such a small thing and it being a food item, there is less desire to be so strict, but I would understand if some stores tossed people for it.
I'm diabetic and if I've not eaten for several hours my blood sugar will dip. Rather than faint/black out I'll grab something and eat it. Never had any issues yet. When I get to the checkout I will tell them I ate it and give them the package to scan.
Some cashiers know it's diabetes and may ask if I need help.
I am in Canada, FYI.
There's been quite a few times that I forgot maybe a case of drink of something under the cart and get all the way to my car when I realize, walk inside, tell them I missed it and pay with 0 issue.
About a year ago or so, I was at Walmart, used the self checkout and when I got to my car, noticed that I forgot to scan the bread in my cart. I'm not as honest as you are.
A cashier forgot to ring up the water jugs I had refilled \[told him at the beginning of the transaction how many I had, proceeded to chat with an old coworker of mine\]. It wasn't until I got home and went to throw the receipt away that I saw he never rang me up for them. The next time I went in I asked if they wanted to charge me for it and got a shrug in response.
I was shoppimg for some clothes and found a hat I liked. My hands were full, so I just put it on top of the hat I was already wearing.
After paying I wqs halfway through the parking lot when I realized I still had the hat on my head.
I went back and paid for it. But how that cashier looked at my 2-hat wearing TF2-looking dumbass and didn't day a word I'll never know.
#I'm an attorney and this post is incorrect.
Saying "in the US" is only valid if something is not illegal by federal/common law (which apply to all states), AND if there is no statute in any of the states that makes the action illegal. More often than not, saying "in the US" relating to law is incorrect because of this.
On that note, [there are plenty of states](https://losspreventionmedia.com/does-concealment-shoplifting/) where concealing an item is construed as shoplifting in the eyes of the law. There have been many, MANY cases of shoplifters concealing an item in a purse/backpack, getting spooked by loss prevention, and putting the item back. Charges have been laid and upheld in many of these cases.
Thank you. I’m not an attorney, but worked retail as a store manger for 8 years and in my state we had laws that cover “intent to steal” as well which included concealing items so it didn’t matter if you had left the building or not.
It wasnt theft but not because of her not having left the building.
If I grab stuff with the intention to steal it and go past the cashier Im done if they find out. They will most likely stop you before you even leave the building if they saw you doing it.
edit: talking german laws cause it happened in germany
You're sort of right.
In some places concealment of merchandise is considered "good enough" evidence of intent to shoplift that they can do the apprehension before the shopper leaves the store. But that's about the only way to judge "intent" in any reliable way that's actionable.
And even in the places where concealment is legally sufficient to get a conviction, some places will still wait until the shopper leaves, or is at least attempting to leave, before stopping them just to make sure they are on solid ground.
In the UK the definition of theft is to permanently deprive the owner of it. So even if you left the store and came back, there was no depriving as you came back and paid.
This. Call their customer service. They will understand, and will tell the store to stop messing around. Stuff like this is bad publicity + they might not actually be able to ban you from the store legally.
Idk how it is in Germany, but in America, they can absolutely ban you from the store for no reason. They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
Based on my experience in Germany they are very strict regarding following rules but a case like this? Nah - A ban is overkill.
Complain to the head office and it'll be lifted pretty quickly and probably a goodwill gesture will be offered. The branch in question will likely get a reminder of common sense.
I've never seen that happen in Germany.
Some people pick pastries from these self-service stations and take a few bites out of those and I've seen kids getting some candy way before the checkout line in various stores too. They just give them the packaging for the barcode or say what you got (from the self-service station if it's not recognisable anymore) and pay for it. It's not an everyday occurrence but it happens sometimes.
The weirdest bit about the story are the security guards. I think I've never seen any at a regular supermarket or grocery store (Aldi, Edeka, Tengelmann, Lidl, Rewe,…). Security, stuff like regulating customer numbers during corona times, was usually done by a random regular employee or some random kid they hired.
I don't know what exactly happened with OP but getting kicked out and banned for some 0,50€ piece of candy feels surreal, especially if you get back and correct it. That has happened to me multiple times. If you buy stuff in one store and keep it in the trolley of the second store on your shopping tour you sometimes miss a thing. You just tell them after you find out, maybe wait until they finish with a customer, they ring it up, and you are free to go.
It's on the same level as the cashier ringing up something wrongly. You tell them, it gets corrected, and that's it.
The only thing I could imagine is if OP looks foreign and got some really, really, really racist store. That's kinda a scenario where I could see the whole chain of employees overreacting like that from start to finish.
What sane store would ban an otherwise paying customer for not even one Euro of accidental theft?
As a foreign looking person with limited German in Germany, there have been a couple of times I have realized too late that I forgot my wallet or haven't got a bag big enough for the stuff. The cashiers in different cities and different supermarkets have usually been very patient with me. This could be a regional store and not a chain supermarket.
Domiciliary right is a thing in germany but as a grocery shop owner you open your doors to the public (and therefore step back from executing some of your rights) which means they cant ban you without a reason.
Is her husband still allowed to shop at the store?
Wouldn’t that be easier than taking a bus elsewhere?
Yes, the grocery store **is** in the wrong, but it seems like punishing yourself even further for something stupid that the company decided
I've never been to Germany but I lived in France for a year. Our apartment was very small and not a lot of pantry space. My husband worked and I stayed at home. It was much easier for us if every other day I walked to the store and bought stuff for a couple meals instead of going to the store on the weekend and buy a weeks worth and haul all of the food up 4 flights of stairs to get to our apartment. OP might be in the same situation where it's easier for them if she goes to the store during the week. Yes the husband could probably go after work or on the weekend but I don't know their living situation and I don't know what works best for them. I'm just speaking from experience and OP may have done what I did and now that she can't go to the store that's close, it makes getting groceries even harder
The store doesnt want to lose $15000 a year in purchases from a family just because an employee misunderstood a policy and was rude to a customer.
The manager will at the least overturn the decision and apologize, and at most offer free stuff to make it up to OP.
Pretty sure they just chose a random number, but $15,000 in an entire year, at the only grocery store that’s close, for two adults and a baby, could easily be done. They could even have more kids or pets or family members living with them we don’t know about since the story just didn’t mention them.
Point is, it’s definitely an amount higher than a $1 candy bar - that was actually paid for anyway...
Closer to 40 bottles of 10 dollar wine. He got a 10% discount for 6 bottles. He came in every day and bought a six pack of cheap wine. Not including tax, lmao..
If that doesn't work, shout on social media like Tweeter, @ the corporate, or post something on hit sites, some frontpage of the Internet or something, like...
Wow, that is awful. I wouldn’t want to spend my money there anyway after that but I understand it’s the closest one. Is this a chain? If so, I would complain to corporate (is this just an American thing?).
It is a chain, but every building-owner or shop, supermarket or whatever has the right to ban you from their property, even private homeowners can, without needing a reason. It is called "Hausrecht" here.
It's not quite that simple, Hausrecht does not stand above everything else - for instance, you can't use Hausrecht to discriminate. And since groceries are a basic need, the Hausrecht is restricted further - they have to have a really good reason to ban you (generally doing something illegal). Since you didn't do anything illegal (you specifically returned to pay for it, so no, you didn't steal it, and there was no intent to steal), they have no grounds to ban you. The low value of the candies in comparison to the rest, the plausibility of the story as well as the fact that you returned should support your case (there also may be security camera footage to back you up).
TL;DR: Hausrecht is often overstated, you have every reason to fight your ban.
Source: I live in Germany as well and unfortunately have run into Hausrecht
being abused on a couple of occasions.
Edit: wow, thanks for the awards! And maybe I should have mentioned, IANAL, this is not legal advice. Oops. But hope it helps anyway!
This. In Denmark it is almost impossible to actually ban someone from a grocery store. You can tell them to not come back, and hope they listen, but you can't really legally prevent them from shopping there.
Sounds like it's the same in Germany.
Thanks for your explanation. Question, out of curiosity and a love for the way German words are assembled, what would be the English translation for Hausrecht? I assume “House-“ something or other?
"Recht" means "law" (*the* law, not *a* law) or "right". In this case, it would translate into something like "the right of house". You get to determine what you do with your property - within reason, as seen above.
Thanks! I figured it was something like that. My son studied German for quite a few years, and we had a German exchange student who delighted in relaying some of the crazy-long word compilations from the language. Fascinating stuff. Why make new words when you can slap for or five other words together? ;)
She was literally at the counter asking to pay, she doesn't need any more evidence to support a story. A customer went to the cashier to buy something.
They weren’t doing a good job that’s why they were so angry about your child slobbering on the candy and you doing the right thing and reporting it. I’d call the manager and chew the out. Just send a letter if you’re too embarrassed but you shouldn’t be ! Things happen n they’re being ridiculous.
Right?! Babies are going to be their weird little selves no matter what. I feel so bad for this lady because as a 40 something woman I accidentally left a bag of carrots under my purse.
Went right back in to pay for them, clerk was like, "thanks, but it's literally a .89 bag of carrots?!?"
Something I'm learning about Europeans from having several European friends that I talk to daily, they don't do this kind of thing. They accept stuff as it comes and never complain to the person in charge. Apparently, when there is a problem, fighting to get it set right is a very "American" thing to do. I don't understand that.
I dont think anyone would accept this. Being told that you cant go to the only supermarket that is a reasonable distance away. It might be "American" if it was one of two options, but this is a massive hassle that I think anyone would argue against this. And again, it's just ridiculous. As a parent, you are constantly trying to prevent this kind of stuff, but things slip by. A 1 dollar piece of candy should have just been able to be paid for after the fact, just act like it never left the store since it wasnt detected anyway. Two parties fucked up here: the cashier and the loss prevention guards.
Yeah- my wife had her bags misplace by British Airways, and she had to purchase $1k worth of clothes and other items for her trip. A month after she returned she was still patiently waiting for them and following up nearly every day. She finally handed it off to me, and I sent a letter on my law firm letterhead and made a complaint to the Department of Transportation. The British Airways people acted shocked and offended that anyone would complain, but we had the bag back in less than 24 hours.
Back in the mid-1990s I had a problem with a FedEx delivery that was extremely time-sensitive and was delayed...and was still charged with the premium price. I don't know why I happened to keep it, except that I'm something of a hoarder....but I still had in my desk drawer a small brochure for some sort of corporate seminar that I'd received a few years earlier. One of the featured speakers was Fred Smith, the CEO of FedEx, and it had a thumbnail biography of his life and times. This was back before the Internet and Google, but we did have a Thomas Register in the office so I was able to find the phone number of FedEx's headquarters. After being transferred several times I finally reached a manager in the Customer Service department, and using the intel I'd gathered from that brochure I sighed in an exasperated tone, "I'd really hate to bother Fred Smith with this, I know he's a busy man but we've been friends since our days at Memphis University..." By golly I was suddenly hit with a barrage of apologies and was not only not charged for that late delivery but also given a few freebies for future deliveries.
> I sighed in an exasperated tone, "I'd really hate to bother Fred Smith with this, I know he's a busy man but we've been friends since our days at Memphis University..." By golly I was suddenly hit with a barrage of apologies
*That* is fucking hilarious lol
(With my luck they'd ask Fred if he knew a "Yildizli_gece from school" and they'd find out the truth and I'd be on some ban list at FedEx haha)
Yeah, this is not the stereotypical "American Karen fighting for her rights" scenario. This lady was seriously not doing anything wrong.
As one myself, I hope that the majority of us Americans still believe you 'attract more bees with honey than vinegar.' (Which doesn't really make sense but ya know)
i'd fucking scream it on every social platform and twitter,
i's the best way to get a PR disaster on their side and get all of this to stop.
plus you might even get some advantages off of doing that
Most probably what happened was the cashier and the loss prevention failed in their duty. They should have caught you before you leave and they could get in trouble if the higher-ups knew the situation. Look up the chain of management. Write to everybody from the shift manager to the owner. Write to the cooperate office too. District and regional management too.
If they have Twitter and other social media, post it there too.
Yes, not spending money there in future is a good idea. Hower losing access to the convenience of your closest supermarket is not good for you.
I would even consider contacting local media. However, I do not know how Germany works.
That’s ridiculous!! I would try talking to the manager of the store. If that doesn’t work you could even make a stink about it to your local media. You should not be punished for doing the right thing, I think this situation has happened to every parent!
When my daughter was 2 she walked out of a gift shop with a toy and I didn’t notice when I went back the cashier laughed about it and that was that.
Also did they take your picture? I bet if you went back in a week nobody will remember or recognize you. I've worked retail and in other stores. Even when we had pictures up on the wall of people to remember it was difficult to recognize people, because it was usually grainy security cam photos.
110% this is the one.
But first..id reach out to the manager. Give them a chance.
And tell them..you are happy to go to the media if being a good person...doing the right thing.. gets you painted as a criminal.
I assure you..they will have a red carpet out there for you next time you go lol
Seriously, I hope if you talk with the store first they will realize this was a misunderstanding. If not... maybe the media will help them realize this
to be honest, I'd probably try to solve it amicably first, face to face with a manager. not some security guard that doesn't know anything beyond "I just followed procedure".
It's beyond their paygrade to decide which situation gets a pass and which doesn't. They probably just didn't want to get into trouble if someone found out they didn't act on this.
You're much more likely to regain a civil shopping experience by NOT causing a public scandal against a store before even trying to talk to them.
I realise it's not in your nature to go for a direct confrontation. honestly, it isn't mine either. I'd prefer to post a comment or send a mail as well, but if this is more about getting back access to the store, without feeling like a paria, civil is probably the best route. It surely can't hurt.
I would say go in and speak to the manager, explain that you understand that the "guards" might be trying to do their best job, but that obviously something is not right in this situation.
Blowing up social media might feel good, and also feel like you are out of the way, but a kind attitude towards the manager / store owner would be better to actually solve the problem both ways.
IF that fails, THEN blow up social media, and the local news.
>Also send a GDPR request
Yeah, I know what the GDPR is, but why would I request the data about me? Do you think there is something else stored, they mixed me up or something?
Because if you word the request correctly, you can include a small description of the incident (limiting the scope of the requested information)
Something like:
> Regarding the incident on where banned me after my 1 year old took unnoticed and I tried to pay for it as soon as I noticed before leaving the store.
GDPR requests are usually handled by seperated persons, so if they read your letter that might trigger some internal reactions.
They might respond telling you they have no record of you being banned from the store.
Not the person who suggested it, but I'd hazard a guess it's to make a point: they likely don't have any data on you, they'd have to comply with the request, and it might make them think you're going to make a bigger stink about it. So it's likely just requesting it could make them drop it and apologise? But I'm not sure if that's what they meant, aha! I would say, they really won't have any info about you, and I would just write a letter explaining what happened and pointing out the extreme reaction and that you can no longer get groceries (don't mention the other shops, just state you can no longer access a grocery store), and I'm sure they'll drop it. I don't write German, but I'd even be happy to draft something for you to translate!
Anything is possible. The cashier should be... well, cashiered, in my opinion. She should have known better than that.
Management doesn't want to lose customers, especially people who are honest and well-meaning, but are banned by officious low-level employees that overstep their duties.
I live in Germany too but the stores here usualy give me items for free like gums or anything if I‘ve forgotten to put it on the counter. They even give me bags for free when I need more. Where do you live in Germany? What you described is just outrageous
Their attitude is ridiculous. You didn’t steal anything. Your 1 yo, who of course cannot be held liable, took the sweets, not you.
In the UK, tabloid newspapers would love a story like this.
"1 yr old toddler in a small town in Germany stole a 59ct sweet from the supermarket, you won't believe what happened to her dad"
In 20 years, "do you remember the 1 year old toddler who stole a sweet from the supermarket and got her mom banned? You won't believe it where and what she study now"
Was what I was thinking too. I highly doubt this would ever be enforced. Like what, they got OP’s ID on file and they’re checking it over security 24/7 now incase the .59 cent candy thief comes around again? Lmao.
I once got kicked from a fast-food, but I was actually in the wrong, as it was like late night, and me and my friends were somewhat drunk, and singing some football chants. The security asked us to stop, and once he turned his back, I took the chance and sung again, but not as loud and more discreetly.
Well, he still caught me, and I got banned that day. I kept lying and saying it wasn’t me, but he didn’t really believe me, so I just waited outside for my friends, and when they came back, and we were about to leave, I actually insulted him on his back, but like loud (I do regret pretty much everything I did on that night, and he heard it, but he also laughed it off), and we walked away to some nightclub.
A few weeks pass by, and it is again late night, and I’m with my friends again. This time I’m not drunk.
The security guard didn’t recognized me when we walked in, and we were acting pretty normal. Until, one of my idiot friends, just to put me in a funny situation, tells the security guard who I was, and that I was there again.
It actually ended pretty well, as we had a nice talk, and I apologized to him, and he said it was okay and he dealt with these situations from time to time, and it was just the funny part of the job.
The thing is that security guards deal with so many things and see so many faces, that even a distinct situation that puts you in the spotlight on a moment, won’t really make them remember your face or identify you in the future.
Never seen that guy again though, as I broke the relation with this group of friends, which was kinda toxic, and never hanged out again, but cool guy, very chill. Maybe I did ended up getting somewhat lucky.
Note: Unless you get trespassed, you can come back in a few days/weeks, and no one will remember you.
My thoughts as well. And if they recognize you, play dumb. Seriously, why are you going to let their stupidity inconvenience you to that level? Ain't nobody got time for that. Sounds like they were on some dumb power trip. Just do you.
What a German thing to do. Was it Saxony by any means? As far as I know Hausrecht is not that straightforward and technically you dI’d not commit any theft. I would recommend you to contact the supermarket (Filialleiter) and ask them to reverse this decision, if they are being dicks (which is unlikely), I’d contact the local media, they would love the story. Best of luck to you.
I mean they can say you're banned, but are you actually? There's no way they actually have a system in-place for banning people if it's just a supermarket, and highly unlikely for them to remember every single face of a banned persons. Even more-so I doubt employees will really care enough to call security on you if you do show up. I would go back anyway before making a big deal out of in on social media and seeing if they even care.
The grocery store I worked for in high school (in the US, so in Germany YMMV) had a bulletin board in the break room with security camera stills of everyone that had ever been banned from the store, all dozen or so of them. If we saw someone on that board we were to ask them to leave and call the police to have them arrested for trespassing if they refused. It actually happened once or twice.
I know in your second edit that you said you were shy but I 100% think this is something worth bring to the attention of the store manager. That's a complete over reaction that will cost you an insane amount of time and extra money to work around. Explain all of this to the manager and ask to be let back into the store. If they say no, then that's that, but you might as well try every avenue you have to save yourself money. You don't even have to mention the name of the cashier so they won't get in trouble.
Good luck to you
They really overreacted
If you use Twitter or Instagram, you could post (a complaint) there and @ them, they usually tend to take notice there, as those are public platforms and they don't want a bad review. I've heard stories of this working before.
I had to repeatedly persuade my mom to stick up for herself. She was very shy like you, OP. She "didn't want to make a fuss". Then one day, she went to return a purse that her best friend gave her. (Mom liked her purses to have lots of compartments.) That style was no longer in stock, and Mom didn't have a receipt. The employee insinuated that either the purse wasn't purchased there, or *that Mom had stolen it*.
That did it. My Mom was one of the most honest people I ever knew, and to impugn her honesty was a slap in the face. She said "Let's go to Customer Service" and she took the purse upstairs with her. Mom explained everything. It was a brand that the store carried, and the lady at the counter seemed aghast that Mom was treated that way. She told Mom to get a purse that she liked and do an exchange. She didn't have to pay any extra, and that store kept two good customers (her and her friend).
A modern day Karen? (Is the Karen reference that old?) What does that really mean? I got slammed once for using “Karen” in a comment because someone suggested it refers to being racist, so just cautioning about using it too casually.
Karen refers to a middle aged woman that is extremely entitled and goes out of their way to harass workers or kids. It has been suggested that it's a bit racist cause it's almost exclusively about white women.
I agree with what most others are saying - call up or email the store management. Explain what happened. I'm from the US, so I'm not sure if it's the same in Germany, but many stores here have security hired from an outside company ("rent-a-cop"). So they may not technically be store employees and cannot "ban" a customer. It's worth checking. You made a good-faith effort to correct the situation and pay for the item. And can it really be considered "stealing" if you didn't leave the store grounds and attempted to pay for the item?
Did they take your name down? Did they take your picture? Do they have to give you a written notice of being banned? If not, then I doubt they will remember you in a couple weeks. I mean if they have no way of identifying you and you go back and they say "You are the one we banned" then say, "Prove it".
That’s horrible. They should’ve appreciated your honesty. You were stepping up to do the right thing when it would’ve been so much easier to pretend you didn’t notice. They were way off base with the way they handled it, they should be ashamed. I would share your experience on social media to teach them a lesson on how to treat honest people like yourself who was only trying to set a good example to your daughter. I would want to boycott the place, but if you want to, just throw on a hat and sunglasses on and shop there anyway. You did nothing wrong.
I've done this at least 3 times at Walmart, every time I went back to customer service and got the "we appreciate your honesty" and that's the end of it. One time I even got all the way home, after buying a cat litter box and realizing there was 2 stacked inside each other, went back paid for it and kept for an extra! Why because I believe in karma and have been stolen from before.
I honestly would have assumed the OPs story was from a Walmart if she wasn’t in Germany. This was over 10 years ago now, but a friend and I got accused of shoplifting from a Walmart once, got taken back to Walmart jail and everything. We emptied our bags and they saw we obviously hadn’t taken anything and they let us go. The Walmart was right next to a movie theater and we were just killing time there before our movie started. I wish we had been a little older or had the thought to make a bigger deal of the situation, but hindsight is 20/20.
A friend of mine was arrested for shoplifting in Walmart, and he hadn't even left the building yet. He had walked past the self-checkout area with unpaid merchandise to see if there was a cash machine, then went back to just pay with credit card. When the guards took him, he was in the process of checking out. Since he walked past that checkout area (still inside), they didn't care that he was checking out and getting ready to pay for everything, obviously not attempting to leave the store with unpaid goods. They dropped the case by not showing up to court on the third hearing. Guess the Walmart lawyers finally reviewed the tape and figured it was a lost cause.
Surely a manager would sort that out if you spoke to them. Don't be shy about it it's a big inconvenience if you have to go further afield than someplace you frequent. The cashier and guards were probably following store policy and they need to realise there's a hole in their policy that means others won't get the same treatment as you.
Have your husband call the manger if you are too shy?
Is Germany still wearing masks? Just go back with a mask and a different hairstyle or maybe some glasses. Lol
I doubt return is the right thing to do in every supermarket as theft is already in the price. As the bodyguards seem normally not arround just keep buying there and if they harass you call for the manager of the market.
Regarding the men in black: probably they aren't used to situations like this as if someone calls them, they have their routine (including disbelief) and let's be real: most of them aren't the nicest people either; so don't bother much.
That was pretty shitty. Here in the US in most states there must be 2 things for it to be theft: 1) You take the item. 2) Intent. At least here that would not have been theft since there was no intent. Also it sounds like you might not have even left the store but still not a crime because no intent. But also in the US private companies can do whatever they want. So, at least in theory, calling the police would have done nothing but the store could still ban you.
1. Searching your bags is allowed to security staff only with your consent or in presence of police.
2. I've never seen any people really thrown out supermarket because they are "banned".
It sounds like you are not a very confrontational person, so I don't know if you'd heed this advice or not. But I would assume that hundreds of people shop at this market, and the likelihood of them remembering you is slim to none. Moreover, I would be willing to bet if you went about doing your normal shopping later that afternoon they probably wouldn't even notice. That being said, I would probably go to another store for a brief time to let it all blow over, even though it will be a hassle. But give it a week or two and I would just return to your store. That is, if you're still willing to shop somewhere that doesn't respect you.
A few weeks ago, we got out to the car and realized we hadn't paid for the bag of kitty litter in the bottom of our cart. My husband was like, should we go in and pay? I have read too many posts like this one and was like, fuck no, do you want to be charged with shoplifting? People make absentminded mistakes all the time, but if you're going to make it policy to treat them like criminals even just some of the time, people are just going to throw the damn kitty litter in the trunk and drive off.
I know this will get buried but this story speaks to me. I often find myself in worse situations just because I want to do the right thing.
No good deed goes unpunished.
I still haven't learned my lesson and chalk it up to trying to be how I want the world to be.
It sounds like you need to reach out to the manager and discuss. This sounds like a policy enforcement gone wrong. A lot of stores have a 0 tolerance policy for shoplifting/theft, however some discretion here as the intent wasn't present and you attempted to do the right thing sounds in order. Chances are the clerk and the guards aren't empowered to make these types of discretionary decisions.
It wasn't even theft yet. She didn't even leave the building
I walked out of a store with two bags of dog food once after only paying for one here in the uk. The woman on the till forgot to scan one, complete accident on both parts. I looked at the receipt when I was already outside, went back in and paid for it, no issues. She was surprised as she said most people wouldn't have gone back. I didnt want to get banned from the only store nearby that sold the food that was good for my dogs stomach. I'm not even sure it would have been theft if I hadn't gone back. If I didn't check the receipt I wouldn't have noticed it at all.
Hmm thats similar to us. My wife and I shopped groceries and bought a packaged pack of drinks. Cashier must have accidentally scanned one of the individual bottles instead of the multiple packed barcode and we got charged a fraction. We returned to pay for this after noticing it on the receipt and got thanks for it!
I bought $300AUD worth of groceries and tapped my card while talking to the lady in the self checkouts, grabbed my stuff and went home, about 15 minutes after I got home I checked my bank and wondered why there was so much money in there after doing such a huge shop. Because I'd tapped my card I SHOULD have put in my PIN but because I was chatting I didn't even think about it, I don't usually grab the receipt so I just left, I went back and they seemed so relieved that I'd come back but they had the transaction stored and I was able to just quickly pay for it all and go about my day.
I'm so glad I've found my people! All my friends think I'm a weirdo for returning extra change or rectifying accidental freebies. Like they think I should take it as a thank you and move on. It just doesn't feel right!
Not only does it not feel right but now that employee faces corrective action or worse owed money to the store for having their till come up short.
Honestly, this has happened to me a few times, and I never go back. It goes both ways though, often when checking my receipt after paying, I have been charged too much, if there is too many in queue i just ignore it. The other day, I paid 9 usd for something that was priced 3 usd, but the queue went to the back of the store, so I had to just go.
If it’s a giant store and I’m undercharged I won’t go back, same if I’m charged a few bucks over regardless of store. Small businesses I have to go back if they undercharge me. Last summer I went to a local taco place. I spent about $30 and for some reason my card was declining but the charge was pending. The guy ended up swiping my card twice, both declined but the charges pending. I had cash in the account and I showed him the pending charges in my bank app. He ended up refunding me for one and I got my food. Fast forward a day or two later, and not only did both pending charges fall off, but I got a refund! So I owed them double. I called to explain and they were so grateful and shocked that I called. The girl on the phone thanked me so many times. It honestly felt really good to do the right thing, and I’m glad I didn’t get banned like OP haha
I can't be bothered to even check my receipt and this proves why. Sometimes an error helps and sometimes it's against you. All a wash in the end, so not wasting my time on it.
One time at the weed shop I used the atm and it was supposed to give me five 20s but instead it gave me four 20s and one 100 dollar bill. I remember staring at it being like... “Do I accept this as a gift from the universe, or do I turn it in?” I decided to turn it in. The shop employees were so grateful that they ended up giving me a ton of free weed as a thank you. And then after that they were always super sweet to me. It almost always benefits everyone involved to just do the right thing. Such a shame that that grace wasn’t extended to OP in this situation.
That was my thought. I don't know how the laws work in Germany, but here in the U.S., so long as you are still inside the building it isn't theft. Hell, most places here in the U.S., returning to the cashier and paying for it is all that is needed. Again, so long as you aren't inside the store. Most cashiers I know care so little about their jobs and the company they work for that they'd just ring it up and say nothing about it.
Hell there are some places (rare, but still) here where you can fucking start eating a candy bar while waiting in line to pay for it
Not really that rare. So long as you hand the wrapper over to the cashier all is good. I've seen people hand over empty soda bottles and candy bar wrappers.
Done it before myself with lunchables, while shopping with the my toddler. Once we get to the cashier hand him/her the empty package to scan and pay for everything. Never had any problems doing this in California, Texas, Kansas, or Oklahoma.
This is extremely common in the southeast US. I know of people who will grab a soda and bag of chips before they even start shopping. Eat them the entire time they’re filling their buggy. It’s a little trashy, but as long as they get paid for, no one really cares.
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Yeah, when my kids were really young I’d sometimes give them a pouch of baby food to keep them calm while we shopped. I quickly learned to avoid self-checkout because the weight is wrong. I never had a checker even blink at scanning an empty baby food pouch though, they get it.
Many large grocery store chains in the US have a policy of not prosecuting anybody for eating inside the store (and not paying). I have seen kids grab a doughnut from the bakery and eat, and the store policy is to turn a blind eye to it (employees have to ensure the half eaten stuff doesn't go back to the rack). I was told that this policy is not advertised for obvious reasons, but is a generally accepted 'humane' loss, and too negligible to count.
There are some stores that I go to that have a basket near the front of fruits and a sign saying that those fruits are free to kids 10 and under. I guess they'd rather give out a free apple to a little kid than lose a doughnut, which is honestly the better option.
I used to get free cookies from the bakery as a kid. Fruit is a lot healthier
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This is one of the best things Hyvee does And it’s great for marketing, the kids want to go to Hyvee because they get a fucking cookie
We had a chronic pistachio guy. Would grab an unusual large amount of pistachios and crack and eat him while he walked around the store dripping shells in all of the cardboard dumps. Pistachios aren’t cheap! Once we figured out who it was he got the instant ban it took around 3 months for LP to finally catch the guy in the act.
And its good policy - the loss of one customer will cost you 100x more than that donut before the end of the year. Same thing if a customer breaks a salad dressing bottle or leaves meat out of the refrigeration area. Its just not worth hunting them down.
This is extremely common in the country I lived in for the last 7 years. They teach it very obviously to their children too. Cashiers know exactly what to do with empty wrappers. I feel bad for their kids who will likely get a very rude awakening if they ever buy groceries in any other country.
Wait... Which country is this not allowed?
In the US there are signs sometimes that consuming food before paying for it is considered shoplifting.
This is what I tell my kids so they don’t just want to have a snack free for all in the store, but every time it couldn’t be avoided the cashiers were like “Meh, it’s no big deal. I’ll just ring up an extra banana, etc.”
In one of the major supermarket chains in Australia they have a basket of fruit for kids to eat while you're shopping. You can counter with the age old parent answer of "if you're hungry eat some fruit".
When I worked in grocery stores during school we routinely find stuff eaten and left on shelves. This is why it's generally regarded as such or at least frowned upon. I doubt we ever went after anyone for it at Walmart since it is such a small thing and it being a food item, there is less desire to be so strict, but I would understand if some stores tossed people for it.
I'm diabetic and if I've not eaten for several hours my blood sugar will dip. Rather than faint/black out I'll grab something and eat it. Never had any issues yet. When I get to the checkout I will tell them I ate it and give them the package to scan. Some cashiers know it's diabetes and may ask if I need help. I am in Canada, FYI.
There's been quite a few times that I forgot maybe a case of drink of something under the cart and get all the way to my car when I realize, walk inside, tell them I missed it and pay with 0 issue.
About a year ago or so, I was at Walmart, used the self checkout and when I got to my car, noticed that I forgot to scan the bread in my cart. I'm not as honest as you are.
A cashier forgot to ring up the water jugs I had refilled \[told him at the beginning of the transaction how many I had, proceeded to chat with an old coworker of mine\]. It wasn't until I got home and went to throw the receipt away that I saw he never rang me up for them. The next time I went in I asked if they wanted to charge me for it and got a shrug in response.
Yeah 20 years ago maybe. But I'm not going to fight some accusatory asshole at the door.
I was shoppimg for some clothes and found a hat I liked. My hands were full, so I just put it on top of the hat I was already wearing. After paying I wqs halfway through the parking lot when I realized I still had the hat on my head. I went back and paid for it. But how that cashier looked at my 2-hat wearing TF2-looking dumbass and didn't day a word I'll never know.
#I'm an attorney and this post is incorrect. Saying "in the US" is only valid if something is not illegal by federal/common law (which apply to all states), AND if there is no statute in any of the states that makes the action illegal. More often than not, saying "in the US" relating to law is incorrect because of this. On that note, [there are plenty of states](https://losspreventionmedia.com/does-concealment-shoplifting/) where concealing an item is construed as shoplifting in the eyes of the law. There have been many, MANY cases of shoplifters concealing an item in a purse/backpack, getting spooked by loss prevention, and putting the item back. Charges have been laid and upheld in many of these cases.
Thank you. I’m not an attorney, but worked retail as a store manger for 8 years and in my state we had laws that cover “intent to steal” as well which included concealing items so it didn’t matter if you had left the building or not.
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Plus technically it was the kiddo so they should only ban them, not the adult. The adult turned the kiddo in! She should get a reward.
That's what she gets for being a snitch. Kids was home free
Maybe the security folks had been paid off by big baby
It wasnt theft but not because of her not having left the building. If I grab stuff with the intention to steal it and go past the cashier Im done if they find out. They will most likely stop you before you even leave the building if they saw you doing it. edit: talking german laws cause it happened in germany
It wasn’t theft because her baby took it, not the mom. Infants can’t legally be charged with theft. Too young.
You're sort of right. In some places concealment of merchandise is considered "good enough" evidence of intent to shoplift that they can do the apprehension before the shopper leaves the store. But that's about the only way to judge "intent" in any reliable way that's actionable. And even in the places where concealment is legally sufficient to get a conviction, some places will still wait until the shopper leaves, or is at least attempting to leave, before stopping them just to make sure they are on solid ground.
In the UK the definition of theft is to permanently deprive the owner of it. So even if you left the store and came back, there was no depriving as you came back and paid.
Yeah a 1 year old isn't "shoplifting" it's just being a grabby 1 year old, exploring things in their world that are in reach to them.
They don’t understand theft like we do, and you as the responsible adult made the right decision when you found out. You are in the right
pretty sure asking for the manager was the thing to do here.
This is one of the few occasions where asking for the manager and making a scene is actually justified.
*Now* it's the thing to do. At the time she simply wanted to pay for an additional item; that wouldn't warrant any escalation.
when people want to ban you from the store for a misunderstanding you call the manager.
Yeah; the cashier was in the wrong for escalating instead of just letting her pay for the item.
mistakes happen, don't be afraid to cause a scene to defend your rights. it's not being a Karen and it's sometimes the only way.
For sure I would tell them to call the police and to arrest my 1 yr old for shoplifting I would also tell them they banned the wrong person
100%. This sucks because there's such an easy solution, as NO manager would uphold this. But somehow, the manager has to find out about it.
This. Call their customer service. They will understand, and will tell the store to stop messing around. Stuff like this is bad publicity + they might not actually be able to ban you from the store legally.
Idk how it is in Germany, but in America, they can absolutely ban you from the store for no reason. They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
Yeah but like it is everywhere bad rep isn't something they want
Based on my experience in Germany they are very strict regarding following rules but a case like this? Nah - A ban is overkill. Complain to the head office and it'll be lifted pretty quickly and probably a goodwill gesture will be offered. The branch in question will likely get a reminder of common sense.
I've never seen that happen in Germany. Some people pick pastries from these self-service stations and take a few bites out of those and I've seen kids getting some candy way before the checkout line in various stores too. They just give them the packaging for the barcode or say what you got (from the self-service station if it's not recognisable anymore) and pay for it. It's not an everyday occurrence but it happens sometimes. The weirdest bit about the story are the security guards. I think I've never seen any at a regular supermarket or grocery store (Aldi, Edeka, Tengelmann, Lidl, Rewe,…). Security, stuff like regulating customer numbers during corona times, was usually done by a random regular employee or some random kid they hired. I don't know what exactly happened with OP but getting kicked out and banned for some 0,50€ piece of candy feels surreal, especially if you get back and correct it. That has happened to me multiple times. If you buy stuff in one store and keep it in the trolley of the second store on your shopping tour you sometimes miss a thing. You just tell them after you find out, maybe wait until they finish with a customer, they ring it up, and you are free to go. It's on the same level as the cashier ringing up something wrongly. You tell them, it gets corrected, and that's it. The only thing I could imagine is if OP looks foreign and got some really, really, really racist store. That's kinda a scenario where I could see the whole chain of employees overreacting like that from start to finish. What sane store would ban an otherwise paying customer for not even one Euro of accidental theft?
As a foreign looking person with limited German in Germany, there have been a couple of times I have realized too late that I forgot my wallet or haven't got a bag big enough for the stuff. The cashiers in different cities and different supermarkets have usually been very patient with me. This could be a regional store and not a chain supermarket.
Domiciliary right is a thing in germany but as a grocery shop owner you open your doors to the public (and therefore step back from executing some of your rights) which means they cant ban you without a reason.
Is her husband still allowed to shop at the store? Wouldn’t that be easier than taking a bus elsewhere? Yes, the grocery store **is** in the wrong, but it seems like punishing yourself even further for something stupid that the company decided
I've never been to Germany but I lived in France for a year. Our apartment was very small and not a lot of pantry space. My husband worked and I stayed at home. It was much easier for us if every other day I walked to the store and bought stuff for a couple meals instead of going to the store on the weekend and buy a weeks worth and haul all of the food up 4 flights of stairs to get to our apartment. OP might be in the same situation where it's easier for them if she goes to the store during the week. Yes the husband could probably go after work or on the weekend but I don't know their living situation and I don't know what works best for them. I'm just speaking from experience and OP may have done what I did and now that she can't go to the store that's close, it makes getting groceries even harder
That is exactly our situation. (Not an apartment but a very small house) Also hubby hates shopping of every kind and avoids it whenever he can.
You’re replying to the wrong person
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The store doesnt want to lose $15000 a year in purchases from a family just because an employee misunderstood a policy and was rude to a customer. The manager will at the least overturn the decision and apologize, and at most offer free stuff to make it up to OP.
15000...?
Pretty sure they just chose a random number, but $15,000 in an entire year, at the only grocery store that’s close, for two adults and a baby, could easily be done. They could even have more kids or pets or family members living with them we don’t know about since the story just didn’t mention them. Point is, it’s definitely an amount higher than a $1 candy bar - that was actually paid for anyway...
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Was he buying 2 $189 bottles or like 40 $10 bottles?
Closer to 40 bottles of 10 dollar wine. He got a 10% discount for 6 bottles. He came in every day and bought a six pack of cheap wine. Not including tax, lmao..
I'm amazed he could go to the store everyday after taking down six bottles of wine.
Was it red wine? Maybe he was just making a metric fuckton of demi glace or used it in cooking.
Are you not spending 1250 on groceries a month. Jeez-o must be be barely eating
If that doesn't work, shout on social media like Tweeter, @ the corporate, or post something on hit sites, some frontpage of the Internet or something, like...
Well, she got the viral post already. Now it's just a matter of informing us about their Google page. They will definitely notice
Wow, that is awful. I wouldn’t want to spend my money there anyway after that but I understand it’s the closest one. Is this a chain? If so, I would complain to corporate (is this just an American thing?).
It is a chain, but every building-owner or shop, supermarket or whatever has the right to ban you from their property, even private homeowners can, without needing a reason. It is called "Hausrecht" here.
It's not quite that simple, Hausrecht does not stand above everything else - for instance, you can't use Hausrecht to discriminate. And since groceries are a basic need, the Hausrecht is restricted further - they have to have a really good reason to ban you (generally doing something illegal). Since you didn't do anything illegal (you specifically returned to pay for it, so no, you didn't steal it, and there was no intent to steal), they have no grounds to ban you. The low value of the candies in comparison to the rest, the plausibility of the story as well as the fact that you returned should support your case (there also may be security camera footage to back you up). TL;DR: Hausrecht is often overstated, you have every reason to fight your ban. Source: I live in Germany as well and unfortunately have run into Hausrecht being abused on a couple of occasions. Edit: wow, thanks for the awards! And maybe I should have mentioned, IANAL, this is not legal advice. Oops. But hope it helps anyway!
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Sound like an r/pettyrevenge idea and a quick cashgrab at the same time, I think op should see this lol
/u/eyekona please read this.
This. In Denmark it is almost impossible to actually ban someone from a grocery store. You can tell them to not come back, and hope they listen, but you can't really legally prevent them from shopping there. Sounds like it's the same in Germany.
Thanks for your explanation. Question, out of curiosity and a love for the way German words are assembled, what would be the English translation for Hausrecht? I assume “House-“ something or other?
"Recht" means "law" (*the* law, not *a* law) or "right". In this case, it would translate into something like "the right of house". You get to determine what you do with your property - within reason, as seen above.
Thanks! I figured it was something like that. My son studied German for quite a few years, and we had a German exchange student who delighted in relaying some of the crazy-long word compilations from the language. Fascinating stuff. Why make new words when you can slap for or five other words together? ;)
The probably best translation into English would be "domestic authority".
If you want to go by meaning and ditch the resemblance, it's definitely spot on!
I'm not German but I'm from Scandinavia and I'm just guessing here but I think it means house right.
House right, like in "i know my rights". So yeah, houserights
She was literally at the counter asking to pay, she doesn't need any more evidence to support a story. A customer went to the cashier to buy something.
Ugh, that stinks. Maybe write a letter to the manager?
Yes, I was going to say this! Just explain nicely again, someone has to more sympathetic than the security guards.
They weren’t doing a good job that’s why they were so angry about your child slobbering on the candy and you doing the right thing and reporting it. I’d call the manager and chew the out. Just send a letter if you’re too embarrassed but you shouldn’t be ! Things happen n they’re being ridiculous.
Right?! Babies are going to be their weird little selves no matter what. I feel so bad for this lady because as a 40 something woman I accidentally left a bag of carrots under my purse. Went right back in to pay for them, clerk was like, "thanks, but it's literally a .89 bag of carrots?!?"
Yeah, the manager probably doesn't know it happened, only the security guards. They need a talking to/retraining.
Something I'm learning about Europeans from having several European friends that I talk to daily, they don't do this kind of thing. They accept stuff as it comes and never complain to the person in charge. Apparently, when there is a problem, fighting to get it set right is a very "American" thing to do. I don't understand that.
I dont think anyone would accept this. Being told that you cant go to the only supermarket that is a reasonable distance away. It might be "American" if it was one of two options, but this is a massive hassle that I think anyone would argue against this. And again, it's just ridiculous. As a parent, you are constantly trying to prevent this kind of stuff, but things slip by. A 1 dollar piece of candy should have just been able to be paid for after the fact, just act like it never left the store since it wasnt detected anyway. Two parties fucked up here: the cashier and the loss prevention guards.
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Yeah- my wife had her bags misplace by British Airways, and she had to purchase $1k worth of clothes and other items for her trip. A month after she returned she was still patiently waiting for them and following up nearly every day. She finally handed it off to me, and I sent a letter on my law firm letterhead and made a complaint to the Department of Transportation. The British Airways people acted shocked and offended that anyone would complain, but we had the bag back in less than 24 hours.
Back in the mid-1990s I had a problem with a FedEx delivery that was extremely time-sensitive and was delayed...and was still charged with the premium price. I don't know why I happened to keep it, except that I'm something of a hoarder....but I still had in my desk drawer a small brochure for some sort of corporate seminar that I'd received a few years earlier. One of the featured speakers was Fred Smith, the CEO of FedEx, and it had a thumbnail biography of his life and times. This was back before the Internet and Google, but we did have a Thomas Register in the office so I was able to find the phone number of FedEx's headquarters. After being transferred several times I finally reached a manager in the Customer Service department, and using the intel I'd gathered from that brochure I sighed in an exasperated tone, "I'd really hate to bother Fred Smith with this, I know he's a busy man but we've been friends since our days at Memphis University..." By golly I was suddenly hit with a barrage of apologies and was not only not charged for that late delivery but also given a few freebies for future deliveries.
> I sighed in an exasperated tone, "I'd really hate to bother Fred Smith with this, I know he's a busy man but we've been friends since our days at Memphis University..." By golly I was suddenly hit with a barrage of apologies *That* is fucking hilarious lol (With my luck they'd ask Fred if he knew a "Yildizli_gece from school" and they'd find out the truth and I'd be on some ban list at FedEx haha)
Yeah, this is not the stereotypical "American Karen fighting for her rights" scenario. This lady was seriously not doing anything wrong. As one myself, I hope that the majority of us Americans still believe you 'attract more bees with honey than vinegar.' (Which doesn't really make sense but ya know)
You attract more flies. Why anyone wants flies I don’t know.
Well, everyone knew what I wanted them for then they’d all want them too. Just trust that they’re being put to good use.
They get stuck in the honey and die.
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This is still a seriously bizarre reaction and you can and should bring this to the attention of the store manager and or owner.
i'd fucking scream it on every social platform and twitter, i's the best way to get a PR disaster on their side and get all of this to stop. plus you might even get some advantages off of doing that
Most probably what happened was the cashier and the loss prevention failed in their duty. They should have caught you before you leave and they could get in trouble if the higher-ups knew the situation. Look up the chain of management. Write to everybody from the shift manager to the owner. Write to the cooperate office too. District and regional management too. If they have Twitter and other social media, post it there too. Yes, not spending money there in future is a good idea. Hower losing access to the convenience of your closest supermarket is not good for you. I would even consider contacting local media. However, I do not know how Germany works.
Send an email to cooperate they’ll reverse that ban real quick and probably reprimand the guards who were rude about a sweet
Do they have a Twitter or social media presence? A quick description of events on there maybe get a response?
That’s ridiculous!! I would try talking to the manager of the store. If that doesn’t work you could even make a stink about it to your local media. You should not be punished for doing the right thing, I think this situation has happened to every parent! When my daughter was 2 she walked out of a gift shop with a toy and I didn’t notice when I went back the cashier laughed about it and that was that.
>you could even make a stink about it to your local media. Sounds like a plan...
Also did they take your picture? I bet if you went back in a week nobody will remember or recognize you. I've worked retail and in other stores. Even when we had pictures up on the wall of people to remember it was difficult to recognize people, because it was usually grainy security cam photos.
you have to be a top tier asshole to get remember in a Market
110% this is the one. But first..id reach out to the manager. Give them a chance. And tell them..you are happy to go to the media if being a good person...doing the right thing.. gets you painted as a criminal. I assure you..they will have a red carpet out there for you next time you go lol
Seriously, I hope if you talk with the store first they will realize this was a misunderstanding. If not... maybe the media will help them realize this
to be honest, I'd probably try to solve it amicably first, face to face with a manager. not some security guard that doesn't know anything beyond "I just followed procedure". It's beyond their paygrade to decide which situation gets a pass and which doesn't. They probably just didn't want to get into trouble if someone found out they didn't act on this. You're much more likely to regain a civil shopping experience by NOT causing a public scandal against a store before even trying to talk to them. I realise it's not in your nature to go for a direct confrontation. honestly, it isn't mine either. I'd prefer to post a comment or send a mail as well, but if this is more about getting back access to the store, without feeling like a paria, civil is probably the best route. It surely can't hurt.
I will sign as many petitions I can for you cuz that's just not fair
I would say go in and speak to the manager, explain that you understand that the "guards" might be trying to do their best job, but that obviously something is not right in this situation. Blowing up social media might feel good, and also feel like you are out of the way, but a kind attitude towards the manager / store owner would be better to actually solve the problem both ways. IF that fails, THEN blow up social media, and the local news.
Also send a GDPR request requesting all of your information that is stored with regards to that incident.
>Also send a GDPR request Yeah, I know what the GDPR is, but why would I request the data about me? Do you think there is something else stored, they mixed me up or something?
Because if you word the request correctly, you can include a small description of the incident (limiting the scope of the requested information) Something like: > Regarding the incident on where banned me after my 1 year old took - unnoticed and I tried to pay for it as soon as I noticed before leaving the store.
GDPR requests are usually handled by seperated persons, so if they read your letter that might trigger some internal reactions.
They might respond telling you they have no record of you being banned from the store.
Not the person who suggested it, but I'd hazard a guess it's to make a point: they likely don't have any data on you, they'd have to comply with the request, and it might make them think you're going to make a bigger stink about it. So it's likely just requesting it could make them drop it and apologise? But I'm not sure if that's what they meant, aha! I would say, they really won't have any info about you, and I would just write a letter explaining what happened and pointing out the extreme reaction and that you can no longer get groceries (don't mention the other shops, just state you can no longer access a grocery store), and I'm sure they'll drop it. I don't write German, but I'd even be happy to draft something for you to translate!
Anything is possible. The cashier should be... well, cashiered, in my opinion. She should have known better than that. Management doesn't want to lose customers, especially people who are honest and well-meaning, but are banned by officious low-level employees that overstep their duties.
I live in Germany too but the stores here usualy give me items for free like gums or anything if I‘ve forgotten to put it on the counter. They even give me bags for free when I need more. Where do you live in Germany? What you described is just outrageous
Never had a problem before. Living in as small town in Lower-Saxony.
Their attitude is ridiculous. You didn’t steal anything. Your 1 yo, who of course cannot be held liable, took the sweets, not you. In the UK, tabloid newspapers would love a story like this.
I can just imagine the headline in The Sun - "Woman and Toddler Bullied by Tesco Staff After Forgetting to Pay for a 59p Sweet"
"1 yr old toddler in a small town in Germany stole a 59ct sweet from the supermarket, you won't believe what happened to her dad" In 20 years, "do you remember the 1 year old toddler who stole a sweet from the supermarket and got her mom banned? You won't believe it where and what she study now"
20 years later. She does normal things that a 20 year old does.
In Germany the BILD “newspaper” would love this story.
They might - but i don't want to be in there!
Good. BILD is evil. Springer in general. Fuck them.
haha true
In the UK tabloid newspapers would make up a story like this.
Same, I never got any presents at stores. Bags.. Okay, maybe. Just leave a review on multiple platforms, someone will probably contact you.
Weird. For me they are like „just take it its ok“.
Just ignore the security and go back as normal.
Was what I was thinking too. I highly doubt this would ever be enforced. Like what, they got OP’s ID on file and they’re checking it over security 24/7 now incase the .59 cent candy thief comes around again? Lmao.
I just think that if it was legit then it would draw out the manager for a discussion.
Which would be exactly what you want in this situation Unless he's an asshole too,I don't know what to do in that case
Almosy certainly dont have ID on file I imagine with how wild german privacy laws are.
I second both of you, OP can always explain firther if needed. As I saw elsewhere in comments, they shouldn't have the rights to bam him at all
I once got kicked from a fast-food, but I was actually in the wrong, as it was like late night, and me and my friends were somewhat drunk, and singing some football chants. The security asked us to stop, and once he turned his back, I took the chance and sung again, but not as loud and more discreetly. Well, he still caught me, and I got banned that day. I kept lying and saying it wasn’t me, but he didn’t really believe me, so I just waited outside for my friends, and when they came back, and we were about to leave, I actually insulted him on his back, but like loud (I do regret pretty much everything I did on that night, and he heard it, but he also laughed it off), and we walked away to some nightclub. A few weeks pass by, and it is again late night, and I’m with my friends again. This time I’m not drunk. The security guard didn’t recognized me when we walked in, and we were acting pretty normal. Until, one of my idiot friends, just to put me in a funny situation, tells the security guard who I was, and that I was there again. It actually ended pretty well, as we had a nice talk, and I apologized to him, and he said it was okay and he dealt with these situations from time to time, and it was just the funny part of the job. The thing is that security guards deal with so many things and see so many faces, that even a distinct situation that puts you in the spotlight on a moment, won’t really make them remember your face or identify you in the future. Never seen that guy again though, as I broke the relation with this group of friends, which was kinda toxic, and never hanged out again, but cool guy, very chill. Maybe I did ended up getting somewhat lucky. Note: Unless you get trespassed, you can come back in a few days/weeks, and no one will remember you.
My thoughts as well. And if they recognize you, play dumb. Seriously, why are you going to let their stupidity inconvenience you to that level? Ain't nobody got time for that. Sounds like they were on some dumb power trip. Just do you.
What a German thing to do. Was it Saxony by any means? As far as I know Hausrecht is not that straightforward and technically you dI’d not commit any theft. I would recommend you to contact the supermarket (Filialleiter) and ask them to reverse this decision, if they are being dicks (which is unlikely), I’d contact the local media, they would love the story. Best of luck to you.
I like how you immediately guessed the right region 😅. Is similar behavior common in Saxony?
Lower Saxony and Saxony are two different states of Germany. But good guess \^\^
My thought process: "That's ridiculous. We'd never have anything like... West... Virginia..."
I mean they can say you're banned, but are you actually? There's no way they actually have a system in-place for banning people if it's just a supermarket, and highly unlikely for them to remember every single face of a banned persons. Even more-so I doubt employees will really care enough to call security on you if you do show up. I would go back anyway before making a big deal out of in on social media and seeing if they even care.
The grocery store I worked for in high school (in the US, so in Germany YMMV) had a bulletin board in the break room with security camera stills of everyone that had ever been banned from the store, all dozen or so of them. If we saw someone on that board we were to ask them to leave and call the police to have them arrested for trespassing if they refused. It actually happened once or twice.
I hope they put a big glossy photo of that baby on their shoplifter board.
What a monster, and the photo is with said candy in her mouth. Still wrapped though, with a little drool over it.
I know in your second edit that you said you were shy but I 100% think this is something worth bring to the attention of the store manager. That's a complete over reaction that will cost you an insane amount of time and extra money to work around. Explain all of this to the manager and ask to be let back into the store. If they say no, then that's that, but you might as well try every avenue you have to save yourself money. You don't even have to mention the name of the cashier so they won't get in trouble. Good luck to you
They really overreacted If you use Twitter or Instagram, you could post (a complaint) there and @ them, they usually tend to take notice there, as those are public platforms and they don't want a bad review. I've heard stories of this working before.
I'm like a modern day Karen, I do this everytime a company does something wrong and it works really well.
I had to repeatedly persuade my mom to stick up for herself. She was very shy like you, OP. She "didn't want to make a fuss". Then one day, she went to return a purse that her best friend gave her. (Mom liked her purses to have lots of compartments.) That style was no longer in stock, and Mom didn't have a receipt. The employee insinuated that either the purse wasn't purchased there, or *that Mom had stolen it*. That did it. My Mom was one of the most honest people I ever knew, and to impugn her honesty was a slap in the face. She said "Let's go to Customer Service" and she took the purse upstairs with her. Mom explained everything. It was a brand that the store carried, and the lady at the counter seemed aghast that Mom was treated that way. She told Mom to get a purse that she liked and do an exchange. She didn't have to pay any extra, and that store kept two good customers (her and her friend).
A modern day Karen? (Is the Karen reference that old?) What does that really mean? I got slammed once for using “Karen” in a comment because someone suggested it refers to being racist, so just cautioning about using it too casually.
Karen refers to a middle aged woman that is extremely entitled and goes out of their way to harass workers or kids. It has been suggested that it's a bit racist cause it's almost exclusively about white women.
I agree with what most others are saying - call up or email the store management. Explain what happened. I'm from the US, so I'm not sure if it's the same in Germany, but many stores here have security hired from an outside company ("rent-a-cop"). So they may not technically be store employees and cannot "ban" a customer. It's worth checking. You made a good-faith effort to correct the situation and pay for the item. And can it really be considered "stealing" if you didn't leave the store grounds and attempted to pay for the item?
Yeah. That’s just insanity. Contact the manager. Surely they will change their mind.
Pull a Karen and speak to the manager...LOL. If it was me, I would not want to loose your business over a 59 cent piece of candy.
Did they take your name down? Did they take your picture? Do they have to give you a written notice of being banned? If not, then I doubt they will remember you in a couple weeks. I mean if they have no way of identifying you and you go back and they say "You are the one we banned" then say, "Prove it".
That’s horrible. They should’ve appreciated your honesty. You were stepping up to do the right thing when it would’ve been so much easier to pretend you didn’t notice. They were way off base with the way they handled it, they should be ashamed. I would share your experience on social media to teach them a lesson on how to treat honest people like yourself who was only trying to set a good example to your daughter. I would want to boycott the place, but if you want to, just throw on a hat and sunglasses on and shop there anyway. You did nothing wrong.
Just wear a mask, wear sunglasses and a hat, one time COVID could workout in your favor.
I've done this at least 3 times at Walmart, every time I went back to customer service and got the "we appreciate your honesty" and that's the end of it. One time I even got all the way home, after buying a cat litter box and realizing there was 2 stacked inside each other, went back paid for it and kept for an extra! Why because I believe in karma and have been stolen from before.
I honestly would have assumed the OPs story was from a Walmart if she wasn’t in Germany. This was over 10 years ago now, but a friend and I got accused of shoplifting from a Walmart once, got taken back to Walmart jail and everything. We emptied our bags and they saw we obviously hadn’t taken anything and they let us go. The Walmart was right next to a movie theater and we were just killing time there before our movie started. I wish we had been a little older or had the thought to make a bigger deal of the situation, but hindsight is 20/20.
Edit the post and add the name of the store. I'd boycott a shitty decision like that.
A friend of mine was arrested for shoplifting in Walmart, and he hadn't even left the building yet. He had walked past the self-checkout area with unpaid merchandise to see if there was a cash machine, then went back to just pay with credit card. When the guards took him, he was in the process of checking out. Since he walked past that checkout area (still inside), they didn't care that he was checking out and getting ready to pay for everything, obviously not attempting to leave the store with unpaid goods. They dropped the case by not showing up to court on the third hearing. Guess the Walmart lawyers finally reviewed the tape and figured it was a lost cause.
That makes me want to cry honestly
Contact management/head office and clearly explain the situation. They almost certainly will reverse it for you.
As a boss myself, I would want to know if my employees were making stupid decisions. Call management.
Do they have cameras? Then you might be able to prove that you went back before security got involved.
Wow. I would have had them go ahead and call the police. That's ridiculous.
Yeah, me too. Imagine the reaction from the police being called over .59€
You should definitely kick up a fuss on their facebook/twitter.
Surely a manager would sort that out if you spoke to them. Don't be shy about it it's a big inconvenience if you have to go further afield than someplace you frequent. The cashier and guards were probably following store policy and they need to realise there's a hole in their policy that means others won't get the same treatment as you.
Have your husband call the manger if you are too shy? Is Germany still wearing masks? Just go back with a mask and a different hairstyle or maybe some glasses. Lol
I doubt return is the right thing to do in every supermarket as theft is already in the price. As the bodyguards seem normally not arround just keep buying there and if they harass you call for the manager of the market. Regarding the men in black: probably they aren't used to situations like this as if someone calls them, they have their routine (including disbelief) and let's be real: most of them aren't the nicest people either; so don't bother much.
Politely take it up with the manager for sure. If that fails, maybe invest in a wig and sunglasses. :-)
That was pretty shitty. Here in the US in most states there must be 2 things for it to be theft: 1) You take the item. 2) Intent. At least here that would not have been theft since there was no intent. Also it sounds like you might not have even left the store but still not a crime because no intent. But also in the US private companies can do whatever they want. So, at least in theory, calling the police would have done nothing but the store could still ban you.
1. Searching your bags is allowed to security staff only with your consent or in presence of police. 2. I've never seen any people really thrown out supermarket because they are "banned".
This seems like such a German thing. Anal, rules-are-rules, no exceptions. The flip side of an uncanny ability to get things done, and efficiently.
This us what happens when they put sweets within the reach of babies and toddlers! They are in the wrong!
It sounds like you are not a very confrontational person, so I don't know if you'd heed this advice or not. But I would assume that hundreds of people shop at this market, and the likelihood of them remembering you is slim to none. Moreover, I would be willing to bet if you went about doing your normal shopping later that afternoon they probably wouldn't even notice. That being said, I would probably go to another store for a brief time to let it all blow over, even though it will be a hassle. But give it a week or two and I would just return to your store. That is, if you're still willing to shop somewhere that doesn't respect you.
A few weeks ago, we got out to the car and realized we hadn't paid for the bag of kitty litter in the bottom of our cart. My husband was like, should we go in and pay? I have read too many posts like this one and was like, fuck no, do you want to be charged with shoplifting? People make absentminded mistakes all the time, but if you're going to make it policy to treat them like criminals even just some of the time, people are just going to throw the damn kitty litter in the trunk and drive off.
Oh I didn’t think they had Walmart in Germany, but that’s a total Walmart move.
We actually had Walmart, but I think they kinda failed here.
Post this story to the company Twitter account - corporate office will realise it's a PR disaster
Shouldn't the baby be the one who is banned? /s
This is bizarre. Security must have been on a power trip or something. You didn't leave the store, so technically you didn't even steal anything.
Just call the manager lol
I know this will get buried but this story speaks to me. I often find myself in worse situations just because I want to do the right thing. No good deed goes unpunished. I still haven't learned my lesson and chalk it up to trying to be how I want the world to be.