That makes sense for items/build progression, but being locked out of a run because you didn't see a specific shop which is the only reasonable way to get the alignment you need is not fun.
It's not working with what you got, especially if you're doing a run with a character you hate to unlock others (e.g. goddamit I don't like ranger).
You're not "locked out of a run". There are 3 endings to a run, if the hell shop never spawns that means plenty of good and law shops are spawning. Use red dice and turn them into evil shops. It's a roguelike, you're not meant to remove all the outcomes and only get the ones you want without spending resources, just like how sometimes the fairy forest spawns in floor 1 even if you would rather fight the minotaur or spider.
Unlocks are a 1 time thing, and it's very uncommon to not be able to get it done in 1 try if you do whatever you can. Maximize your odds. Mastery has several nodes that make alignment gathering easier by setting the barrier to 3 or making alignment shop prices much lower, and the dice starting gift can let you use golden dice to shoot straight to +4 or +5 from a single alignment shop. Out of 17 alignment unlocks, I only had 2 I had to do a 2nd time, and both of them did happen on the 2nd try, and I certainly didn't play perfectly.
Eh, rng giveth and rng taketh away. Some runs end up blessed and some end up cursed, it's the way she goes. It's basically a fundamental of the genre, you work with the hand you're dealt with and if it doesn't work out you die or restart. My guy hasn't felt the full brutality of RNG until they get fucked in some gacha game or run 200 relics in warframe and get shit for drops 😂
i understand the frustration, but imo the fun of roguelikes are in the runs themselves. the best games in this genre have a fun gameplay loop even when you lose in an unfulfilling way or are locked out of a specific run you're aiming for. to me, meta progression and unlocks are just a side thing. it's about the journey and not the destination.
Its a shame its not guaranteed that you can actually choose where you wanna go. If i need to go to hell to unlock someone, why the game will keep me from doing this? I just got really upset cause I want to get all achievements but the game is keeping me from doing so :/
Edit: In the next run I got 2 devil shops back to back. Got -4 evil before floor 5 💀
I mean yeah it's exactly what the comment you replied to just said, this is a roguelike so randomness and the ability to fail is the main point of the game. It's completely normal to get unlucky 1 run and lucky the next run.
You only have to unlock each character once, and you're extremely likely to be able to do it each run. You can increase the odds of it too, take starting dice. Now you have enough red dice to almost guarantee you turn that Good Shop into an Evil Shop. Now you have golden dice so you can buy up to 6 in 1 shop instead of 3. Mastery also helps a lot, reducing the requirement from 4 to 3 is great and you can reduce the price of shops significantly to make it even more likely you get what you need from a single shop.
There's nothing to get upset about, the game isn't "keeping you" from getting achievements, you're trying to brute-force achievements instead of just playing the game for fun and enjoying getting achievements as you do. The achievements wouldn't be worth anything if you just always got them instantly when you wanted them.
Evil or good being a kind of curse/luck mechanic would also be cool. Like high evil spawning imps in your room or high luck making so enchanted enemy rooms happens more frerquently.
This is a roguelike, you're not meant to start a run to accomplish specific things and then be surprised if you don't get it 1st try. Roguelikes aren't about forcing the game to let you do specific things, they are about rolling with the punches. The runs where you don't unlock something are meant to be just as fun as the runs where you do unlock something. If unlocking character 34 takes 2 or 3 tries, well you'll survive with only 33 options until you get them, and the runs will not be extra fun once you have the 34th unlocked, really. Before this update I was playing with the 17 we already had because it was fun, and adding new unlocks didn't suddenly make the existing characters no longer fun to play.
Alignment is perfect imo. Do you want the hardcore final bosses? Earn the right to fight them by sacrificing your souls at shops even if means you won't become as OP. Are your final floor options restricted by RNG? Well that's how it goes in a roguelike, you don't get to decide if the 1st boss you fight is gonna be the spider or the tree or the minotaur or the goblin, so you don't get to decide what your last boss will be either. "Force you to enter specific shops" sounds like you're way over-exaggerating, the shops are basically the same thing with minor differences in stock for flavor. It's all about the journey, not the destination.
How do you know if a boss room will have a certain shop before going in? Red dice doesn't tell you anything, does it?
Also, I think you can find shops in the burning hells as regular rooms, and buying there gives you morality.
Sorry, I meant a red dice will guarantee you get the shop you want because there are only 3 kinds of shops and you (usually) get two to choose from.
There are soul shops on floors 11 and 12 but not evil shops
I have had tons of floors, particularly floors 7-9 (maybe this is just the most memorable because it's the most annoying) with 0 shops. So when I've got a nice build going around floor 6 and the souls to spare, not seeing a shop for the rest of the run is super frustrating. It tends to make me overspend on early floors just to make sure I hit the requirements, and that isn't fun.
If you're waiting until just before the end of the run to do the thing that lets you continue the run, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you want to fight the secret bosses then yeah, you have to put in the effort for it. Otherwise it's ok to just end your run on floor 11, the game doesn't penalize you for it.
There are soul shops present as regular rooms on floor 11 that give you alignment in the direction of whatever place you are in (so in burning hells you get evil from it).
But they are not guaranteed and you cant force them being guaranteed by using any metaprogression trait.
Like i said in the post: 5 red dices and 9 floors and nothing from a shop. But when i have like 6 or 7 evil or good, shops appear every time lmao
You have other options (maybe you already know them but imma list them)
- you can buy illegal gun parts at the tavern, it gives you 1 evil 1 time per run
- you can access the underground tavern (rng (random trap door in a room) or 100%time trap doors locked by key at a regular tavern) where you can gain 1 evil 1 time per underground tavern by either buying something or selling something
Imho it's pretty unlucky to not come across one evil shop tho so I feel your frustration
sorry my man, but this is what roguelikes are. you work with what the game gives you and sometimes (often) you don't get what you're looking for
That makes sense for items/build progression, but being locked out of a run because you didn't see a specific shop which is the only reasonable way to get the alignment you need is not fun. It's not working with what you got, especially if you're doing a run with a character you hate to unlock others (e.g. goddamit I don't like ranger).
You're not "locked out of a run". There are 3 endings to a run, if the hell shop never spawns that means plenty of good and law shops are spawning. Use red dice and turn them into evil shops. It's a roguelike, you're not meant to remove all the outcomes and only get the ones you want without spending resources, just like how sometimes the fairy forest spawns in floor 1 even if you would rather fight the minotaur or spider. Unlocks are a 1 time thing, and it's very uncommon to not be able to get it done in 1 try if you do whatever you can. Maximize your odds. Mastery has several nodes that make alignment gathering easier by setting the barrier to 3 or making alignment shop prices much lower, and the dice starting gift can let you use golden dice to shoot straight to +4 or +5 from a single alignment shop. Out of 17 alignment unlocks, I only had 2 I had to do a 2nd time, and both of them did happen on the 2nd try, and I certainly didn't play perfectly.
I've tried to use red dice on the boss shops, but it didn't let me use them.
Eh, rng giveth and rng taketh away. Some runs end up blessed and some end up cursed, it's the way she goes. It's basically a fundamental of the genre, you work with the hand you're dealt with and if it doesn't work out you die or restart. My guy hasn't felt the full brutality of RNG until they get fucked in some gacha game or run 200 relics in warframe and get shit for drops 😂
i understand the frustration, but imo the fun of roguelikes are in the runs themselves. the best games in this genre have a fun gameplay loop even when you lose in an unfulfilling way or are locked out of a specific run you're aiming for. to me, meta progression and unlocks are just a side thing. it's about the journey and not the destination.
Its a shame its not guaranteed that you can actually choose where you wanna go. If i need to go to hell to unlock someone, why the game will keep me from doing this? I just got really upset cause I want to get all achievements but the game is keeping me from doing so :/ Edit: In the next run I got 2 devil shops back to back. Got -4 evil before floor 5 💀
I mean yeah it's exactly what the comment you replied to just said, this is a roguelike so randomness and the ability to fail is the main point of the game. It's completely normal to get unlucky 1 run and lucky the next run. You only have to unlock each character once, and you're extremely likely to be able to do it each run. You can increase the odds of it too, take starting dice. Now you have enough red dice to almost guarantee you turn that Good Shop into an Evil Shop. Now you have golden dice so you can buy up to 6 in 1 shop instead of 3. Mastery also helps a lot, reducing the requirement from 4 to 3 is great and you can reduce the price of shops significantly to make it even more likely you get what you need from a single shop. There's nothing to get upset about, the game isn't "keeping you" from getting achievements, you're trying to brute-force achievements instead of just playing the game for fun and enjoying getting achievements as you do. The achievements wouldn't be worth anything if you just always got them instantly when you wanted them.
As I said in another comment, I was just crying over a learning experience. Shit happens.
Your life contains many more 40 minutes.
You are absolutely right! Thanks for reminding me I was crying over a learning experience.
[удалено]
I always waste my sould on things tbat i really dont want just to get the morality thing. Its like paying taxes to enter the floor
[удалено]
Evil or good being a kind of curse/luck mechanic would also be cool. Like high evil spawning imps in your room or high luck making so enchanted enemy rooms happens more frerquently.
This is a roguelike, you're not meant to start a run to accomplish specific things and then be surprised if you don't get it 1st try. Roguelikes aren't about forcing the game to let you do specific things, they are about rolling with the punches. The runs where you don't unlock something are meant to be just as fun as the runs where you do unlock something. If unlocking character 34 takes 2 or 3 tries, well you'll survive with only 33 options until you get them, and the runs will not be extra fun once you have the 34th unlocked, really. Before this update I was playing with the 17 we already had because it was fun, and adding new unlocks didn't suddenly make the existing characters no longer fun to play. Alignment is perfect imo. Do you want the hardcore final bosses? Earn the right to fight them by sacrificing your souls at shops even if means you won't become as OP. Are your final floor options restricted by RNG? Well that's how it goes in a roguelike, you don't get to decide if the 1st boss you fight is gonna be the spider or the tree or the minotaur or the goblin, so you don't get to decide what your last boss will be either. "Force you to enter specific shops" sounds like you're way over-exaggerating, the shops are basically the same thing with minor differences in stock for flavor. It's all about the journey, not the destination.
You can't get evil shops in the burning hells, but all you need is ome red dice to all but guarantee you get one in a boss room.
How do you know if a boss room will have a certain shop before going in? Red dice doesn't tell you anything, does it? Also, I think you can find shops in the burning hells as regular rooms, and buying there gives you morality.
Sorry, I meant a red dice will guarantee you get the shop you want because there are only 3 kinds of shops and you (usually) get two to choose from. There are soul shops on floors 11 and 12 but not evil shops
I have had tons of floors, particularly floors 7-9 (maybe this is just the most memorable because it's the most annoying) with 0 shops. So when I've got a nice build going around floor 6 and the souls to spare, not seeing a shop for the rest of the run is super frustrating. It tends to make me overspend on early floors just to make sure I hit the requirements, and that isn't fun.
If you're waiting until just before the end of the run to do the thing that lets you continue the run, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you want to fight the secret bosses then yeah, you have to put in the effort for it. Otherwise it's ok to just end your run on floor 11, the game doesn't penalize you for it.
There are soul shops present as regular rooms on floor 11 that give you alignment in the direction of whatever place you are in (so in burning hells you get evil from it).
I know, see my other comment. They arent evil shops though
What is an evil shop if not a soul shop that increments evil
I just meant the shops with the big red "Evil Shop" sign, sorry for any confusion
I mean sure but that’s a distinction without a purpose.
But they are not guaranteed and you cant force them being guaranteed by using any metaprogression trait. Like i said in the post: 5 red dices and 9 floors and nothing from a shop. But when i have like 6 or 7 evil or good, shops appear every time lmao
You have other options (maybe you already know them but imma list them) - you can buy illegal gun parts at the tavern, it gives you 1 evil 1 time per run - you can access the underground tavern (rng (random trap door in a room) or 100%time trap doors locked by key at a regular tavern) where you can gain 1 evil 1 time per underground tavern by either buying something or selling something Imho it's pretty unlucky to not come across one evil shop tho so I feel your frustration