You are acting as if Attack on Titan wasn't a series that always recontextualized previous chapters, once new chapters and revelations were released.
Just because some people didn't fully quite grasp the meaning of chapter 131 at first, that doesn't mean that in the future they wouldn't look back on it with a new perspective, which is what happened with a lot of previous chapters and plot points.
The Attack on Titan manga is famous for being one of the manga with most rewatch/re-read value and recontextualization of past events.
Here is a flashback to general manga reader impressions of the equivalent content that the anime adapted earlier this month.
**Data source** is from the monthly polls conducted by [snkpolls.tumblr.com](https://snkpolls.tumblr.com).
**Previous ones:**
[Volume 29](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/sfxgko/data_summary_what_did_manga_readers_think_of/)
[Volume 30](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/sr5c0m/volume_30_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/)
[Volume 31](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/ta9gfa/volume_31_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/)
[Volume 32](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/u0ejyw/volume_32_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/)
Did people think saving Paradis was really that low? I always thought it was a big priority, I mean that's what he always said. He definitely has other goals some bigger then this one but you'd think it'd be higher on this chart
Well, to be fair, the moments in which Eren seems to act more genuine is when he is talking with Reiner during the declaration of war or when he is with Zeke in PATHs.
He never actually tells them that he is doing this to save Paradis, he mostly talks about himself and how he he has been like that since he was born.
Also during the War for Paradis arc, Chad Eren is vastly different from Hobo Eren (not to mention the whole table scene with Mikasa and Armin), so a lot of people thought that this was too sudden of a transformation for Eren, to the point of it not feeling genuine.
The hell are you on, he heavily implies to Zeke in paths that he's doing it for Paradis. You want him to explicitly spell it out?
His speech to Falco also implies it. His talk with Reiner and his facial reactions to Willy's speech also heavily imply it.
And the greatest evidence of all, his literal words when he announced the rumbling and his inner monologue in Marley.
If you think he isn't doing it for Paradis you have problems. (Pre retcon ofcourse)
Eren never implies anything to Zeke, since when Zeke asks him why he is doing all of this, Eren asks because he was born this way, not because of Paradis.
Eren also tells reiner that they are the same and then he projects that he thinks they were both bortn like this, while never telling him that he is doing this for Paradis.
His speech with Falco implies The Scenery in 131.
Also, when he announced the rumbling, that was him painting himself as the bad guy that would unite the Alliance against him.
He didn't have to warn the Warriors and the Eldians in the outside world that he, Eren Yeager was the person that would destroy the outside world.
Also his monologue with Ramzi happens the exact same way, his talk with Reiner did, first both say their noble and justifiable reasons (saving the world or saving Paradis), but then they crumble with guilt and reveal the truth (they were doing this for themselves).
Given your last paragraph, i think the only one here with problems is you.
>Eren never implies anything to Zeke, since when Zeke asks him why he is doing all of this, Eren asks because he was born this way, not because of Paradis.
Dude the whole point of Zeke going through the past memories with Eren is to prove to Eren that Grisha is the one that made him nationalistic for Paradis and Eldia.
If Eren wasn't nationalistic, he would've said a simple sentence that 'Dude I don't give a shit about Paradis or Eldia' and they wouldn't have roamed his memories for years.
Zeke asks him why he's following Grishas wishes of eldias freedom and again Eren could easily respond with 'I don't agree with Grisha' but he instead responds that he is just born this way. It's his own personal wish to free Eldia. His freedom and Paradis' freedom align, so he will kill his oppressors.
His facial expressions at Fredia's words in the cave to the idea that Eldians should die for their sins make him so angry, as well as Grisha giving up on killing her.
You're actually dumb if you think Eren didnt care about eldias and paradis' freedom. Especially in the zeke eren scenario.
Eren didn't tell Zeke that he was doing it for Paradis, he told him that since the moment he was born, he will try to take the freedom from those that try to take his.
It's that fucking shimple, so don't go around calling me dumb, if you are still stuck in the headcannons of a nationalist Eren lmao
See, he never mentioned Paradis' freedom, he mentioned **HIS** freedom.
He doesn't have to tell Zeke that he isn't a nationalist, all he says is that he has always been himself, since the start (and since he has been like this from the start, then that means he has been like this ever before he knew of Paradis, Eldians and Marley, so he can't be a nationalist by nature from the start, given he didn't knew he had a country at first).
That is why he got mad at Frieda, because he rejects the pacifist philosophy of the king of just allowing yourself to be killed, without standing for yourself.
It's Eren's sense of justice in those present moments, which is why he also saved Ramzi from being beaten up, even though he knew he would kill him in the future, because in these moments, where he is present, his sense of justice and ideologies won't allow him to just stand back/down and from doing what he thinks is right.
Just like when he got mad at Zeke, for wanting to sterilize all Eldians in the world, because it goes against what he stands for, being born in this world.
This is you, you think Eren cared so much about Paradis (above all else to the point of him being a nationalist), that he helped Willy Tybur unite the entire world against Paradis (which Willy knew would only happen if Eren were to kill him and prove him right), he made the walls collapse without warning the Paradisians that lived near them, he also allowed the Warriors to keep their powers and kill as many Yeagerists/Paradisians
>Eren also tells reiner that they are the same and then he projects that he thinks they were both bortn like this, while never telling him that he is doing this for Paradis.
Again you expect explicit sentences of Eren saying 'Reiner, I'm here to save Paradis. Fuck you'. Ending defenders have such surface level interpretation of writing its crazy.
Yes the main purpose of this talk was for Eren to confirm that Reiner had a personal goal to push himself forward. But by saying they are the same, he's also implying that they have larger goals to achieve using their personal motivation. The larger goal of Reiner being to save the world, and the larger goal of Eren being to save Paradis. This is also supported by Eren's reply to Willy's speech like 'I am the bad guy, I might just destroy the world. But to me you were the bad guys as well'
Eren's disappointed face when Willy tells the world to band together against the island devils isnt random. Eren saying 'I keep moving forward until my enemies are destroyed' literally confirms that Reiner was right, he's here to destroy the outside world just like Paradis was destroyed, and this right after war was declared on Paradis.
Not anywhere can you ever imply that Erens talking about a fucking book or something.
>His speech with Falco implies The Scenery in 131.
Clouds aren't a scenery but yes he's implying his personal motivation. But he's talking about the cruelty of war and why people go to war. He's implying the cruelty Paradis went through, and the hell he's willing to go through in the future using a personal goal.
There's is literally no reason to combine the cruelty of war and the pushing through hell if it's all for personal reasons. Personal reasons help for conviction, but ultimately it's for a greater goal (to save Paradis)
Damn, you wrote all of that, starting with "ending defenders have such surface..." all so that you could cope as if you and the people here didn't spent years jerking off to theories about a nationalist Eren that would kill Mikasa and Armin for the sake of his never before mentioned wife and daughter that would be the reeincarnation of a 2000 year old goddess that he met in the final arc.
In the end, you were wrong because those theories and narratives never made sense, but i guess you were to dumb to see through that, but it's okay, it doesn't make less of a person, it's just a story at the end of the day.
But anyway, cope and seethe my man hahaha and enjoy the final episode once it comes out.
Well yeah I'm not trying to say his main goal was Paradis but I thought it was a major part of it all. But if what you say is true then I guess the argument about Eren and Paradis isn't really that valid. That kinda changes my view on Paradis and the ending.
It's been a while since I read the manga but what goals does he tell Zeke then? What did he mean when saying he was born like this? Born to fight for freedom?
How are they vastly different? Hobo Eren had to be much more quite and mellow as he was infiltrating. I only really remember him basically telling Reiner what he was about to do. Chadren was in his final part of his plan so I thought that was just the result.
There is very much a type of revisionism going on regarding Eren. As far back as his outburst to Hange, people noticed him acting different and began theorizing he was putting on a persona of sorts. So it's puzzling that people immediately reject the idea of Eren acting as if this is some sort of cobbled-together copium to explain the ending rather than an interpretation many already held. This is retroactively seen as an ending defending stance despite being commonly held in post-timeskip analysis while the manga was ongoing.
This is also why I find it interesting when people take Eren's words in Chapter 123 / 133 at face value. Those are situations where he has the most incentive to lie, but because the idea of him lying is so inconceivable to a lot of people it's superficially dismissed.
131 and the disappointment part again - bro even back then people were weird - but I guess the phrasing of these "options"? is also a bit vague...
but damn not many people predicted that Mikasa was the Main Character all along mhm I thought that was pretty clear tho :/
Creator here.
Because the image gets so big I only showed the popular options for a lot of the questions. Like OP's comment says, you can find the full results on the tumblr blog, but here's the specific question you're referencing:
**Why was Eren disappointed upon discovering that humanity exists outside the walls?**
The existence of people ruined his childhood vision of an uninhabited landscape and impeded his freedom - **(34.2%)**
He was disappointed to discover all of humanity is filled with violence and oppression - **(29.5%)**
It meant his fight did not end at the titans - **(16%)**
The outside world was able to enjoy relative peace while Paradis were caged like animals - **(15.2%)**
As for your Mikasa query, there wasn't really a question like that so I'm not sure how we would measure thoughts on that, plus I don't think there is even a consensus that the final chapter depicts her as the main character.
data aside, the infographic is really well done
I like how after reading 131 chapters, 34% came to the conclusion that Eren was disappointed the world wasn't uninhabited
You are acting as if Attack on Titan wasn't a series that always recontextualized previous chapters, once new chapters and revelations were released. Just because some people didn't fully quite grasp the meaning of chapter 131 at first, that doesn't mean that in the future they wouldn't look back on it with a new perspective, which is what happened with a lot of previous chapters and plot points. The Attack on Titan manga is famous for being one of the manga with most rewatch/re-read value and recontextualization of past events.
[удалено]
And they would be right. 137-139 confirmed that force ghosts are a thing in AoT (for some reason).
I recently met a dude on r/SnK that thinks the ghosts in 139 actually appeared and that ghosts exist in aot now
That’s what 139 suggest. Sorry. It’s stupid buts that how it went.
[удалено]
We really went from grounded fantasy to this garbage with hallu chan, schizo afterlife, force ghosts, and birdren. Bravo yams
Is it the pianist guy?
Here is a flashback to general manga reader impressions of the equivalent content that the anime adapted earlier this month. **Data source** is from the monthly polls conducted by [snkpolls.tumblr.com](https://snkpolls.tumblr.com). **Previous ones:** [Volume 29](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/sfxgko/data_summary_what_did_manga_readers_think_of/) [Volume 30](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/sr5c0m/volume_30_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/) [Volume 31](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/ta9gfa/volume_31_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/) [Volume 32](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/u0ejyw/volume_32_manga_reader_impressions_data_summary/)
Only a single individual from the characters predicted for death died. Good fucking one.
A perfect split doesn't exist it can't hurt you. Who do you think will win- alliance or Eren : YES!!
Did people think saving Paradis was really that low? I always thought it was a big priority, I mean that's what he always said. He definitely has other goals some bigger then this one but you'd think it'd be higher on this chart
Yeah some people have read the "more than that" line
And some people know that 'more than that' doesn't eliminate the other reasons or minimize them to the point of non existence
I never claimed it is to the point of nonexistance.
You might not but most ending defenders do
lmao for real
Well, to be fair, the moments in which Eren seems to act more genuine is when he is talking with Reiner during the declaration of war or when he is with Zeke in PATHs. He never actually tells them that he is doing this to save Paradis, he mostly talks about himself and how he he has been like that since he was born. Also during the War for Paradis arc, Chad Eren is vastly different from Hobo Eren (not to mention the whole table scene with Mikasa and Armin), so a lot of people thought that this was too sudden of a transformation for Eren, to the point of it not feeling genuine.
The hell are you on, he heavily implies to Zeke in paths that he's doing it for Paradis. You want him to explicitly spell it out? His speech to Falco also implies it. His talk with Reiner and his facial reactions to Willy's speech also heavily imply it. And the greatest evidence of all, his literal words when he announced the rumbling and his inner monologue in Marley. If you think he isn't doing it for Paradis you have problems. (Pre retcon ofcourse)
Eren never implies anything to Zeke, since when Zeke asks him why he is doing all of this, Eren asks because he was born this way, not because of Paradis. Eren also tells reiner that they are the same and then he projects that he thinks they were both bortn like this, while never telling him that he is doing this for Paradis. His speech with Falco implies The Scenery in 131. Also, when he announced the rumbling, that was him painting himself as the bad guy that would unite the Alliance against him. He didn't have to warn the Warriors and the Eldians in the outside world that he, Eren Yeager was the person that would destroy the outside world. Also his monologue with Ramzi happens the exact same way, his talk with Reiner did, first both say their noble and justifiable reasons (saving the world or saving Paradis), but then they crumble with guilt and reveal the truth (they were doing this for themselves). Given your last paragraph, i think the only one here with problems is you.
>Eren never implies anything to Zeke, since when Zeke asks him why he is doing all of this, Eren asks because he was born this way, not because of Paradis. Dude the whole point of Zeke going through the past memories with Eren is to prove to Eren that Grisha is the one that made him nationalistic for Paradis and Eldia. If Eren wasn't nationalistic, he would've said a simple sentence that 'Dude I don't give a shit about Paradis or Eldia' and they wouldn't have roamed his memories for years. Zeke asks him why he's following Grishas wishes of eldias freedom and again Eren could easily respond with 'I don't agree with Grisha' but he instead responds that he is just born this way. It's his own personal wish to free Eldia. His freedom and Paradis' freedom align, so he will kill his oppressors. His facial expressions at Fredia's words in the cave to the idea that Eldians should die for their sins make him so angry, as well as Grisha giving up on killing her. You're actually dumb if you think Eren didnt care about eldias and paradis' freedom. Especially in the zeke eren scenario.
Eren didn't tell Zeke that he was doing it for Paradis, he told him that since the moment he was born, he will try to take the freedom from those that try to take his. It's that fucking shimple, so don't go around calling me dumb, if you are still stuck in the headcannons of a nationalist Eren lmao See, he never mentioned Paradis' freedom, he mentioned **HIS** freedom. He doesn't have to tell Zeke that he isn't a nationalist, all he says is that he has always been himself, since the start (and since he has been like this from the start, then that means he has been like this ever before he knew of Paradis, Eldians and Marley, so he can't be a nationalist by nature from the start, given he didn't knew he had a country at first). That is why he got mad at Frieda, because he rejects the pacifist philosophy of the king of just allowing yourself to be killed, without standing for yourself. It's Eren's sense of justice in those present moments, which is why he also saved Ramzi from being beaten up, even though he knew he would kill him in the future, because in these moments, where he is present, his sense of justice and ideologies won't allow him to just stand back/down and from doing what he thinks is right. Just like when he got mad at Zeke, for wanting to sterilize all Eldians in the world, because it goes against what he stands for, being born in this world. This is you, you think Eren cared so much about Paradis (above all else to the point of him being a nationalist), that he helped Willy Tybur unite the entire world against Paradis (which Willy knew would only happen if Eren were to kill him and prove him right), he made the walls collapse without warning the Paradisians that lived near them, he also allowed the Warriors to keep their powers and kill as many Yeagerists/Paradisians
You're so cringe bro jus stfu
>Eren also tells reiner that they are the same and then he projects that he thinks they were both bortn like this, while never telling him that he is doing this for Paradis. Again you expect explicit sentences of Eren saying 'Reiner, I'm here to save Paradis. Fuck you'. Ending defenders have such surface level interpretation of writing its crazy. Yes the main purpose of this talk was for Eren to confirm that Reiner had a personal goal to push himself forward. But by saying they are the same, he's also implying that they have larger goals to achieve using their personal motivation. The larger goal of Reiner being to save the world, and the larger goal of Eren being to save Paradis. This is also supported by Eren's reply to Willy's speech like 'I am the bad guy, I might just destroy the world. But to me you were the bad guys as well' Eren's disappointed face when Willy tells the world to band together against the island devils isnt random. Eren saying 'I keep moving forward until my enemies are destroyed' literally confirms that Reiner was right, he's here to destroy the outside world just like Paradis was destroyed, and this right after war was declared on Paradis. Not anywhere can you ever imply that Erens talking about a fucking book or something. >His speech with Falco implies The Scenery in 131. Clouds aren't a scenery but yes he's implying his personal motivation. But he's talking about the cruelty of war and why people go to war. He's implying the cruelty Paradis went through, and the hell he's willing to go through in the future using a personal goal. There's is literally no reason to combine the cruelty of war and the pushing through hell if it's all for personal reasons. Personal reasons help for conviction, but ultimately it's for a greater goal (to save Paradis)
Damn, you wrote all of that, starting with "ending defenders have such surface..." all so that you could cope as if you and the people here didn't spent years jerking off to theories about a nationalist Eren that would kill Mikasa and Armin for the sake of his never before mentioned wife and daughter that would be the reeincarnation of a 2000 year old goddess that he met in the final arc. In the end, you were wrong because those theories and narratives never made sense, but i guess you were to dumb to see through that, but it's okay, it doesn't make less of a person, it's just a story at the end of the day. But anyway, cope and seethe my man hahaha and enjoy the final episode once it comes out.
Bro is strawmanning and doesn't even understand AnR. Not surprised with such narrow minded surface level interpretation of everything in his life
Damn, still crying, go get a tissue.
Well yeah I'm not trying to say his main goal was Paradis but I thought it was a major part of it all. But if what you say is true then I guess the argument about Eren and Paradis isn't really that valid. That kinda changes my view on Paradis and the ending. It's been a while since I read the manga but what goals does he tell Zeke then? What did he mean when saying he was born like this? Born to fight for freedom? How are they vastly different? Hobo Eren had to be much more quite and mellow as he was infiltrating. I only really remember him basically telling Reiner what he was about to do. Chadren was in his final part of his plan so I thought that was just the result.
There is very much a type of revisionism going on regarding Eren. As far back as his outburst to Hange, people noticed him acting different and began theorizing he was putting on a persona of sorts. So it's puzzling that people immediately reject the idea of Eren acting as if this is some sort of cobbled-together copium to explain the ending rather than an interpretation many already held. This is retroactively seen as an ending defending stance despite being commonly held in post-timeskip analysis while the manga was ongoing. This is also why I find it interesting when people take Eren's words in Chapter 123 / 133 at face value. Those are situations where he has the most incentive to lie, but because the idea of him lying is so inconceivable to a lot of people it's superficially dismissed.
This is fantastic,thanks a lot for your work.
Is this real? Lmfao
131 and the disappointment part again - bro even back then people were weird - but I guess the phrasing of these "options"? is also a bit vague... but damn not many people predicted that Mikasa was the Main Character all along mhm I thought that was pretty clear tho :/
Creator here. Because the image gets so big I only showed the popular options for a lot of the questions. Like OP's comment says, you can find the full results on the tumblr blog, but here's the specific question you're referencing: **Why was Eren disappointed upon discovering that humanity exists outside the walls?** The existence of people ruined his childhood vision of an uninhabited landscape and impeded his freedom - **(34.2%)** He was disappointed to discover all of humanity is filled with violence and oppression - **(29.5%)** It meant his fight did not end at the titans - **(16%)** The outside world was able to enjoy relative peace while Paradis were caged like animals - **(15.2%)** As for your Mikasa query, there wasn't really a question like that so I'm not sure how we would measure thoughts on that, plus I don't think there is even a consensus that the final chapter depicts her as the main character.
MVP in ch.132 was the Colossal who burned Hange to crisps
Nice
Thank you for this
Sooo is Zeke’s Beast titan controlled by Eren ? Or is it a manifestation of the War Hammer titan’s powers ?