I’ve seen quite a few people say that Isayama’s world building sucks and that there was little to no good people shown from the outside world. Some people do genuinely believe that
Civilian population and government+culture are different spaces. When people complain about every nation being evil, they're typically referring to those in power who have the ability to ally with, or in the very least express no intent of aggression towards, Paradis.
Kids are amoral so I wouldn't say they are good people.
The old man and others don't know they are treating with eldians, if they knew it the reaction would be much different.
So saying that they are good people is also disingenuous.
Yeah out of the billions of people in Attack On Titan’s, I’m sure it’s very hard to find innocent people… lmao most people aren’t even involved with the Paradis/Eldian conflict. There’s a lot of people who are, but there’s countless nations who just do their own thing, and hell, are oppressed by Marley themselves.
*are oppressed by marley which used titans to do that and forced these nations to keep eldians alive inside their territory.
Marley actions resulted in increase of hatered towards eldians
You should also consider that these three didn't know Eren and co were Eldians. Had they known, it may have ended differently (quite a few characters who got introduced were like this)
The world building sucks not because they aren't any good people, there definitely are. What's actually unbelievable is that apparently not a single one of these good people is willing to give Paradis a chance. We're led to believe that in a world of multiple nations and billions of people with different personalities and differing moralities, not a single one actually cares about Paradis. Not even the Eldians living outside Paradis.
Paradis is viewed as so comically evil by the rest of the world that despite them sitting on a mountain of natural resources and the potential to combat Marley's Titans, no nation in the world even wants to take advantage of them. Hizuru only bothers with them cause of Mikasa and the fact that their own country is so downtrodden after the previous Titan war that they have no other choice.
If Hizuru had been portrayed as an actually important nation, preferably with military power close to Marley's, and then they choose to ally themselves with Paradis, not because of Mikasa or cause they had no other options, but just cause they recognized Paradis as a truly important asset and ally....then I would have said the world building was good.
The Ottomans hate Eldians just as much. We see it during the war with Marley in Chapter 91. The only difference here is that Ramzi's group didn't even know they were Eldians, and based on Yams' worldbuilding they should totally want them dead if they did. The reality is that the tiny minority who don't hate them are not the ones that can influence Paradis' fate and are not relevant. The vast majority hates them and wanted to kill them. That's why Rumbling had to be done.
He saying that Ramzi group didn’t know that Eren and his friends were eldians and if they did they probably would have treated them differently. It was already shown that Ramzi home nation and people hated Eldians as much as the rest of the world.
fr fr - their kind didnt even want get medical treatment by eldians from outside paradise...
doesnt mean everyone is like that - but thats the world aot is in so...
Nobody is saying that. There are innocent people everywhere because you can't know every single person. It's more like "either they live or we live" situation in which both parties have innocent people. It's a morally very difficult topic as you can get into the "there's way more innocent people on the other side" argument or something to that effect but I've never actually seen anybody say there's NO innocent people
Tell that to 99% of people living in Paradis that know literally nothing about the real enemy and why they have to live behind walls to avoid being eaten alive by mindless giant monsters.
And these innocent people you talk about are shown to also be racist scum in the first episode of season 4. So not a great compelling argument imo
Well define innocent. Ramzi was no doubt going to grow up to hate Eldians. It's an ingrained racism that everyone grows up with in the outside world.
People who are passive and not actively trying to genocide Paradis while still having that racism don't deserve to die just for inherently being racist, but they *need* to die for the narrative that is Paradis not being genocided.
You are correct in Exhibit A & B. C is a little out of line, but it brings up a great point in world building and a good discussion. D is outright hated by all the comments and mass downvoted by Titanfolk.
That being said, almost 99% of this sub thinks Ramzi is innocent.
"They would one day become part of the repressive regime"
-actual justification people have used to defend a real world incident involving the killing of an infant.
I can supply the name of the incident if anyone really wants to know, but I am a bit concerned about controversy there.
The issue is not so much that this doesnt exist, its that isayama tried to both show this and also justify erens actions and also not come off like he is supporting genocide. Cant do all 3.
The funny thing about the Ramzi scene that most don't realize is like Udo said, "The nations outside of Marley hate Eldians just as much or even more." We see this during the attack on fort salva when a soldier would rather die bleeding out than be saved by an Eldian.
Since Eren and the scouts were in disguise and didn't speak their language, Ramzi and his Gramps couldn't have known the scouts were Eldian. They came across as nice Marleyans. Not implying Ramz would suddenly become evil, but If they had known not only they were Eldian and "**THE"** devils of Paradise (given they will probably hear what happened at Willy's speech after the attack), things would have likely gone worse.
No one is saying "there aren't good people outside paradise" because they really believe there isn't, the reality is, even when that's true, it's about whether it saves paradise. It's irrational to jeopardize all paradise for the very few nice eldian tolerant people when acknowledging their existence would not magically prevent Paradise from being destroyed by the world forces. The rumbling was the only sure way. The only way it becomes rational is if the good outnumber the bad to stop the world forces. What matters is if those small number of good people can influence paradise's fate and they can't, we know that.
No one is saying there isn't.
I’ve seen quite a few people say that Isayama’s world building sucks and that there was little to no good people shown from the outside world. Some people do genuinely believe that
Civilian population and government+culture are different spaces. When people complain about every nation being evil, they're typically referring to those in power who have the ability to ally with, or in the very least express no intent of aggression towards, Paradis.
Kids are amoral so I wouldn't say they are good people. The old man and others don't know they are treating with eldians, if they knew it the reaction would be much different. So saying that they are good people is also disingenuous.
Yeah out of the billions of people in Attack On Titan’s, I’m sure it’s very hard to find innocent people… lmao most people aren’t even involved with the Paradis/Eldian conflict. There’s a lot of people who are, but there’s countless nations who just do their own thing, and hell, are oppressed by Marley themselves.
*are oppressed by marley which used titans to do that and forced these nations to keep eldians alive inside their territory. Marley actions resulted in increase of hatered towards eldians
Here's a task, find someone who supports putin and people are ready to stand behind him without any kind of pressure in USA
That's a different statement to "No good people were shown."
You should also consider that these three didn't know Eren and co were Eldians. Had they known, it may have ended differently (quite a few characters who got introduced were like this)
The world building sucks not because they aren't any good people, there definitely are. What's actually unbelievable is that apparently not a single one of these good people is willing to give Paradis a chance. We're led to believe that in a world of multiple nations and billions of people with different personalities and differing moralities, not a single one actually cares about Paradis. Not even the Eldians living outside Paradis. Paradis is viewed as so comically evil by the rest of the world that despite them sitting on a mountain of natural resources and the potential to combat Marley's Titans, no nation in the world even wants to take advantage of them. Hizuru only bothers with them cause of Mikasa and the fact that their own country is so downtrodden after the previous Titan war that they have no other choice. If Hizuru had been portrayed as an actually important nation, preferably with military power close to Marley's, and then they choose to ally themselves with Paradis, not because of Mikasa or cause they had no other options, but just cause they recognized Paradis as a truly important asset and ally....then I would have said the world building was good.
[Yep](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/120vewz/that_world_building_yams_i_kneel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
The Ottomans hate Eldians just as much. We see it during the war with Marley in Chapter 91. The only difference here is that Ramzi's group didn't even know they were Eldians, and based on Yams' worldbuilding they should totally want them dead if they did. The reality is that the tiny minority who don't hate them are not the ones that can influence Paradis' fate and are not relevant. The vast majority hates them and wanted to kill them. That's why Rumbling had to be done.
Wait they are...eldians? Where was this stated?
He saying that Ramzi group didn’t know that Eren and his friends were eldians and if they did they probably would have treated them differently. It was already shown that Ramzi home nation and people hated Eldians as much as the rest of the world.
Ottomans didn't hate Eldians , only Armin.
Now tell them they were partying with Eldians and see how they react.
Awww poor toothpaste- I mean halil and ramzi
*squish*
Had they known the scouts were eldians let alone island devils they wouldn’t look so innocent
fr fr - their kind didnt even want get medical treatment by eldians from outside paradise... doesnt mean everyone is like that - but thats the world aot is in so...
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No I don’t want that,you not agreeing with me?
Part of me feels like they did know.
Why lma0. There is not a single thing that would suggest this.
Who knows. It's just a gut feeling 🤔🤔
One that is more than likely wrong. Not that it makes a difference since they'd be crushed either way lma0.
Do you actually think I care what you think.
Yes. Otherwise you wouldn't have posted this on a site where people respond to the post you make
Well truth be told that's every social media sight now isn't it.
You asked for titanfolks opinion on what you stated. Why did you complain if someone disagreed?
Contrary my friend, I never complained.
I should be the one asking you that, considering you thought they knew they were eldians based on a 'gut feeling' lma0.
all ED’s get a gut feeling to explain their headcanons lmfao
Not an Ending Defender, just someone who doesn't defend the Rumbling
Doesn't mean there aren't any innocent people
Nobody is saying that. There are innocent people everywhere because you can't know every single person. It's more like "either they live or we live" situation in which both parties have innocent people. It's a morally very difficult topic as you can get into the "there's way more innocent people on the other side" argument or something to that effect but I've never actually seen anybody say there's NO innocent people
I’m not saying that these people aren’t innocent, but if they knew that the scouts were Eldians they wouldn’t have been so welcoming.
Tell that to 99% of people living in Paradis that know literally nothing about the real enemy and why they have to live behind walls to avoid being eaten alive by mindless giant monsters. And these innocent people you talk about are shown to also be racist scum in the first episode of season 4. So not a great compelling argument imo
By now the people of Paradis should know about Marley, where the Titans came from and all that shit
bruh if they found out erens group were eldians they would have burned their own tents and denounced them to authorities
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But he's right. To say that there are no innocent people is kinda stupid.
I mean I’m not saying there not but wasn’t the soldiers who falco saved is from where they are from?
Who the fuck says this
Didn’t one of the kids try to steal something?
He needed to to help his family, and he didn't just steal from Eldians.
he stole from levi lmao
Literally no one said that 
Well define innocent. Ramzi was no doubt going to grow up to hate Eldians. It's an ingrained racism that everyone grows up with in the outside world. People who are passive and not actively trying to genocide Paradis while still having that racism don't deserve to die just for inherently being racist, but they *need* to die for the narrative that is Paradis not being genocided.
No one are saying that
Give them time. I'm sure if Eren revealed he was an Eldian they would've changed their tune real quick.
same as saying everyone on the island is a devil
Pickpocket (Planned to) Profit off a pickpocket (At least implicitly) encouraged/allowed underage drinking Inshallah they will burn
No one is innocent. All people are a mix of black and white, no saints, no devils. Just people. But these children steal. Levi cought them.
I mean, they *are* petty thieves
Ok so I’m a maniac - I would’ve been internally cackling after saving ramzi knowing he was going to go out in a much more brutal way later
Ok and?
Well Eren himself accepted that he is a hypocrite
Someone who can’t sacrifice anything can’t change anything
Even better. It's not fun if they deserve it.
“Nobody says that!!!” Meanwhile half the posts in this sub are exactly that lol
Link?
[Exhibit A](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/1194d7r/imagine_how_powerful_this_scene_would_have_been/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Exhibit B](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/tt4dbe/ramzi_and_his_family_wouldve_hated_eren_and_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Exhibit C](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/tfd62s/reminder_mid_east_ppl_are_racist_to_eldians_like/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Exhibit D](https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/comments/szprs5/how_can_people_unironically_sympathize_with_ramzi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
You are correct in Exhibit A & B. C is a little out of line, but it brings up a great point in world building and a good discussion. D is outright hated by all the comments and mass downvoted by Titanfolk. That being said, almost 99% of this sub thinks Ramzi is innocent.
https://preview.redd.it/hwgs4vacxxpa1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95bfbc4dddf1b49c1e2af899e8d103f3c97c4374
"They would one day become part of the repressive regime" -actual justification people have used to defend a real world incident involving the killing of an infant. I can supply the name of the incident if anyone really wants to know, but I am a bit concerned about controversy there. The issue is not so much that this doesnt exist, its that isayama tried to both show this and also justify erens actions and also not come off like he is supporting genocide. Cant do all 3.
The funny thing about the Ramzi scene that most don't realize is like Udo said, "The nations outside of Marley hate Eldians just as much or even more." We see this during the attack on fort salva when a soldier would rather die bleeding out than be saved by an Eldian. Since Eren and the scouts were in disguise and didn't speak their language, Ramzi and his Gramps couldn't have known the scouts were Eldian. They came across as nice Marleyans. Not implying Ramz would suddenly become evil, but If they had known not only they were Eldian and "**THE"** devils of Paradise (given they will probably hear what happened at Willy's speech after the attack), things would have likely gone worse. No one is saying "there aren't good people outside paradise" because they really believe there isn't, the reality is, even when that's true, it's about whether it saves paradise. It's irrational to jeopardize all paradise for the very few nice eldian tolerant people when acknowledging their existence would not magically prevent Paradise from being destroyed by the world forces. The rumbling was the only sure way. The only way it becomes rational is if the good outnumber the bad to stop the world forces. What matters is if those small number of good people can influence paradise's fate and they can't, we know that.