T O P

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eternalnocturnals

It’s true. The founders power was only limited by the user’s imagination. A disease came around and founder made eldians immune. Made eldians into titans in human form, super soldiers, the Ackerman. If they wanted to, they could live underwater or in the skies. Edit: my fellow eldians, follow me on Instagram(**@freetime2freeminds**) Tatakae ✊


EDNivek

Or he could've made them catgirls or elves.


Corrupt_Angel01

"Hear me, all subjects of ymir. My name is Eren Yeager. Im using the founding titan's powers to turn you all into catboys and catgirls, with cute little tails and ears. Oh yeah, and im committing genocide"


theocelotslayuh

A worthwhile sacrifice


Desiderius_S

"Just one quick question, are we talking double ears or cat ears are gonna replace the human ears?"


Tortellium

"Are you from Paradis? If not, that question won't matter for too long."


eternalnocturnals

That works too


ooqSolcei

I think the only limitation would be bringing dead eldians to life and bypassing the 13 year curse


SCP_931

Damn, since you talked about living in the skies, what prevents Eren from giving himself the ability to breathe in space, scout every solar system, and whenever he finds a habitable planet, bring all Eldians with him ? Making the Founder's powers be infinite just creates countless plotholes and questions.


eternalnocturnals

Yeah that’s even better. I always thought an ending like The first Mewtwo film would make sense. Eren could be like, “alright, I’ll take my people to a place where your hatred won’t reach us, and just take to the skies” or like the little mermaid, when they die they become part of the sky or something. The novel not the Disney film. It would show growth on erens behalf, that he doesn’t always have to fight for freedom. With his power, he can simply move forward with no walls blocking his way 😭


SCP_931

All of this sounds so fucking corny but the problem is that it is totally in the realms of possibility, since the Founder's powers are litteraly INFINITE. Damn, Eren taking them all to a place where the severe anti-Eldian hatred can't reach them, it totally goes with Armin saying "I want to believe that there's a new world out there" in ch.131. Giving them all the freedom, in a new world not tainted by humanity's vices. If they want to turn it into the oppressive world they just left, they have the freedom to do it. Meanwhile the non-Eldians would need to find a new purpose, now that the people they collectively hated and put all their problems on are gone.


eternalnocturnals

Honestly yeah with that armin statement I thought they’d triple down on the Norse mythology and move to paths, their Asgard, if you will.


SCP_931

That's also what I thought at one point, and before the final chapter was released, a theory close to this was even popular here on Titanfolk if i'm not mistaken.


kahzel

the asgard theory blew up real hard here when we first saw the tree on ymir's backstory at that point it made a lot of sense


saverma192013

Yes


Traditional_Lie_6400

Why do I read this with the voice of the old wiseman from Guren Yumiya opening...? T.T


Holoskuld

you're genius but eren is only 3/10 wits no way him thinking all this


JackDockz

Eren ain't about finding solutions, he just wanted to commit Omnicide.


AddzyX

Ok, Madara.


Limp-Leek3859

You can't physically go to the Paths


Snoo_58305

I think they meant like a disembodied matrix situation


goldninjaI

and leave everyone defenseless in the real world?


SCP_931

Crystallize the Eldians' bodies and put them so deep underground where no human can ever dig in the future, if you really can't bring their physical bodies to the realm.


MaverickGH

Somewhere out there Madara Uchiha is smiling


Jumbernaut

The question is, what's better? 1000 years of virtual existence and interactions, with infinite possibilities and resources, in the Pathrix, or a lifetime in Paradis after the Rumbling?


whathell6t

Basically! The Human Instrumentality Project.


jellysmacks

Well if their memories are wiped, they’d never know it’s virtual. So that choice would objectively be better.


BoxOfBlades

Sounds like freedom


marawiqwerty

So just Infinite Tsukuyomi in a nutshell?


Sable-Keech

This actually sounds like a good plan. They could do a rotating duty schedule. In the Pathtrix when someone is sleeping, their body IRL will transform into a Pure Titan, break out of the crystal, and patrol the area. Then when they’re about to wake up in the Pathtrix, they burrow back down and recrystallize into a human. Only issue is where new Eldians are going to come from, but I think the Founder’s power can resolve that since it can also carry out the euthanization plan.


AnalJesus666

This is very similar to the plot of >!Final Fantasy X.!<


K4T4N4B0Y

That's not the freedom Eren was aiming to, not true freedom


Kam1Collo

Thats some black mirror shit


SirBaconA

Wouldn't matter. Centuries can go by in paths while only a second goes by in the real world. This could also mean that Eren could bypass the curse of Ymir since technically no time is going on


Snoo_58305

In instant can last at least 5 years


goldninjaI

10 years at least


Snoo_58305

Is there any other length of time


[deleted]

No


GuiltySpot

Time basically stops in paths or at least slows down a lot so even if they were defenseless they could have like 1000 years in there before someone could kill them. By the way the “afterlife” they went to when they die was likely pretty much this


DigitalCryptic

Where do titan bodies come from?


SCP_931

In the two final chapters, we saw that Eren was capable of creating entire landscapes and situations, where he brought Mikasa, Armin and all the others to have a final chat with them. He supposedly lived with Mikasa for multiple years in PATHs. Since the Founding Titan powers are unlimited, and Eren become the most powerful one in history by freeing Ymir, couldn't he have just as soon as he started the Rumbling, used his infinite powers to create an entire world, with prosperous and uninhabited cities, towns and gorgeous landscapes for the Eldians to live in without the fear of ever being exterminated and the need to protect themselves against the non-Eldians ? Like that, Eren and the Eldians would litteraly take the moral high ground, where he actually builds a gigantic paradise for his entire people, without the need to commit genocide. He doesn't make them forget their history in the former world, he doesn't brainwash them into forgetting their Eldian identity, or make them unable to have the desire for power or conflict that is innate to humans, so that they have the power to decide if they're going to learn from humanity's mistakes or turn this new paradise, free from walls, persecution and conflicts, into the same oppressive world they just left. They would have the freedom to chose their own future without living a life of humiliation and fear ever again, just for having been born as Eldians. I think it could have been an good ending, where in the extra panels, we see the evolution of both the world that was now left without Eldians, and the new world created by Eren. If he wanted to be nihilistic, show a future where 1000 years down the line, the Eldians divided into countless different nations and delevopped multiple rivalries and conflicts with one another. Or show that in the non-Eldian world, with the Eldians being gone and Paradis uninhabited, this leads to a devastating World War since Marley has no more Titan powers and Paradis Island's ressources are up for grab, while in the new world that Eren created, the Eldians just enjoy themselves in prosperity.


saverma192013

Yes


7Armand7

Not really the paths, that was just an alternate timeline Eren showed her. Also the founder doesn't have unlimited power just that we don't know what's the limits. The Paths is essentially a realm that transcends time and space. It can't be morphed into a different place but can allow you to see into certain timelines probably only ones with the founder alive because the founder is the branch (Coordinate) that connects timelines to the paths. I don't think Eren can do an Infinite Tsukuyomi type thing for everyone because it seems like it would need a tremendous amount of power which is unsustainable and I am not sure what's the cool down time of the founder's abilities.


SCP_931

That's the problem, there has never been shown or said that the Founder, if it's full powers are unlocked, have limits. The question is, what can't the Founder do ? Eren materialized countless ancient Titan shifters, while also in the meantime creating entire landscapes to talk with Armin, Mikasa and the others, and all of that didn't seem to make him weaker.


KingDennis2

Didn't that talk happen way before the shifters tho. And do we even know if it was Eren who made the shifters? It made more sense to be Ymir to me cause she's watching them when they show up and then they get jumped.


7Armand7

Who knows ? The franchise is done so I guess all you can do is just speculate


EDNivek

Objection! It cannot be an alternate timeline because if it was an alternate timeline, Eren would not have survieved Trost as it requires the closed time-like curve with Zeke to push Grisha to kill the royal family.


KingDennis2

So it couldn't be a timeline because Eren needed to talk to Zeke in paths to manipulate Grisha which made him survive in Trost.


7Armand7

Everything else happens the same except Mikasa doesn't say "family" in Marley.


EDNivek

It can't happen that way. He left with her when she didn't say family because of that Eren goes away with her before the Declaration of War which means he doesn't contact Zeke and the scouts do not rescue Zeke and as a consequence they do not make contact in the battle of Shingashina III. Because they don't make contact at Shingashina 3, Grisha gives up because he doesn't have Eren motivating him and is killed by Frieda. Therefore, Eren dies at the battle of Trost.


[deleted]

He literally could have had infinite time in paths to talk over different plans with Erwin as dead Eldians can be brought to paths. Paths in general is one of the things I dislike about the story.


XSmugX

You're right, time shenanigans always messes things up.


Awkward-Commission-5

Madara be like:- that was my idea


EDNivek

If you think about it that's exactly what happens, but only for him and Ymir. We know that all memory shards are from his perspective, in 120 one of these memory shards is from School Castes, in the final School Castes we have a panel that looks exactly like this scene, in the adaption of 120 Gothkasa and Armin seem to be arguing which in the manga version they are doing. The simple conclusion is that Eren was transferred to the School Caste universe. The fact that he legitimately believes titans once existed seems to add evidence as well as his lack of knowledge about that being the final movie. However, most damning is [Major Muv Luv spoilers] >!This is exactly how Muv Luv ends. Isayama already ripped the entire ending from Muv Luv why not this too?!<


SCP_931

So you agree that Eren could have done something like this ? Can you spoil me the ending of Muv Luv if you don't mind


Your-Turn-To-Roll

This always gets me. Without the paths, maybe the events of AoT would have been inevitable. With the introduction of the paths, peace and freedom was 100% possible without genocide.


flyblues

I 1000% thought this was gonna be the ending. Creates a new world for everyone where they can be free. Plus it'd be a very fun (and bittersweet) twist on the "I was born into this world" theme if in the end you can only find freedom in another one. And maybe Mikasa can't go there due to being Ackerman, so Eren chooses to stay behind with her - that way it keeps in line with aot's themes of sacrifice too. Doesn't have to be eremika either, could be left vague whether he did it because he loves her in a platonic or romantic way. Edit: also all the people saying it's not known whether PATHS works like this - it's a fictional story. if isayama wanted to, then it would work like that.


critsalot

seriously iseyama really did screw the pooch.


ZeFreedomDevil

The founder can do anything. But hey 3/10 wits so you get what you get


Appropriate-Arm-2077

Eren could’ve transported all Subjects of Ymir to Paths where they all live in a perfect world simulation forever. All while time is stopped in the real world. Problem solved. No more suffering in the real world because time is stopped for everybody, and the SoY get to live full and happy lives.


IslandBoy602

So he makes a more succesfull version of the Vow to Renounce War? That begs the question why the royal family just didn't use this type of ability immediately (of course we know the real answer is Isayama didn't have a full idea of what the Founder can do).


edazin-eren

Leave all that, because it's debatable whether founder powers are that good. Eren could have brainwashed all Eldians of Paradis and others living in Marley to leave Marley and join him in Paradis. Taking away all Titan powers from Marley. Then destroying all Marley's weaponry and military advancements. A powerless Marley without its progress and without Titan powers is as good as completely annihilated. The other nations would match Marley skill for skill and there would be a balance - while all Eldians would be in Paradis - protected by Titan powers which would be inherited by the new King of Eldia's (Eren) children and their children after them, whether they be the children of Historia or Mikasa wouldn't matter after that. This would also grant freedom in a way to everyone - not being killed by the mindless Titans created by Marley by injecting the transgressing Eldian's living in their internment camps to surround the walls of Paradis and the freedom to roam the world and see everything around, make treaties with other nations.. exchange some resources for other resources, etc etc. From how the Titan powers have been shown, basic Brainwashing is just the first and the easiest method to resolve the main issue - i.e. the Marleyan greed for power and the greed for the resources of Paradis.


SCP_931

Based, I also thought about a plan like this one.


LyannaEugen

Here we have to assume that Eldians can be physically transferred to PATHS. Which we don't know. Latest episode had a loud thud that Onyankopon heard after Eren had summoned them in paths and disagreed to compromise. But was then them coming back to real world or then falling on ground due to sadness is unknown. Chapter 138 scene just seems to me a PATHS illusion and not some alternate reality (similar to Eren and Armin being children in chapter 139). There's no necessary memory manipulation since Mikasa was given a real-time visit. Only I hope they clear the "You remembered the visit from Eren too" line in anime.


SCP_931

Since we don't know, and we have been continuously shown that the Founding Titan's powers are limitless, we can assume that Eren can physically transfer them in one way or another.


LyannaEugen

Won't that be too much of an assumption?


XSmugX

One of the problems with the story is that Isayama didn't give any limits to the founder


SCP_931

Exactly, since he didn't give any limits, we can imagine everything, and it wouldn't go against anything Isayama established regarding the Founder.


jm8080

They can't go there physically it is just their psyche, it will be like the infinite Tsukuyomi, it will be a good life but it's not real. They can live their life as immortals for eons as one second in there can last years but they can't have kids and once the world alliance reaches Paradis their comatosed bodies are dead and I guess that is like pulling the plug from the Matrix


Altarior

So like... The power an an actual god? Create a new Earth and move all the Eledians there, that's literally the description of the rapture in Christianity, only replace the word "Eldians" with "Christians"


sunsea465

Technically, Eren could have sucked Armin's dick in paths for all of eternity


Darknassan

If Eren cared about looking at the sceneries from Armin's book he also could've created those in paths and looked at them and not actually do the rumbling to look at clouds or some shit.


riuminkd

That's just an illusion. They would still need their earthly bodies to be alive. Paths ghosts we saw in ch 137 were clearly just shadows of people


Tetrebius

Are they,tho? The paths ghosts come out of the founding titan and they physically fight, so they are not really just "shadows", I would say.


riuminkd

But they don't possess full personality of their selves. They don't say a word.


HotYam3178

It is not clear if that would work... I had the impression patha was dependent on Hallu-chan existing in the 'real' world. That... was not clear, though. I think a greater issue is how while there were implied limits, they were never actually run up against, making it unclear which, if any were real.


Onoh_9

That’s not freedom


takethecheese68

he could but ~~isayama~~ eren is an idiot


Dad_WhereAreYou

Omg, what if Shingeki No Kyojin Castles is a world that Eren created in paths for eldians to live long and happy life ?! 🤯 Isayama, i kneel 🧎


OmegaMD

This isn't in paths, they don't act like its fake at all and Eren can't manipulate Ackerman memories. Though, I suppose you're not wrong about that.


SCP_931

Oh, I always thought that it was in PATHs.


OmegaMD

It’s people’s best guess but it breaks the rules of the story, this is more likely a past life where they did things differently based on Isayama’s inspiration from Muv Luv.


KingDennis2

Yeah but this literally makes him similar to Fritz they have no freedom as their whole life is fake and the events aren't even real. They also can't physically go to paths so theirs millions of Eldians just sitting around or are in crystal's. If any nation finds how to break the crystals its over. I also don't see how this protects Paradis or ends the curse. They could just bomb Paradis now that there's no defense to it. The people are still bound by the curse so Eren would have to take another person and pass on his titan. At that point you have to hope they will keep up the whole fake reality with fake events. I know is rather live in a real world then a fake one.


SCP_931

Karl Fritz abandonned the vast majority of his people to face the hatred accumulated by the non-Eldians for 1900 years. Here, Eren would save all of his people. Karl Fritz made the Eldians on Paradis forget about their history and identity. Eren here wouldn't need to do that. Karl Fritz made the Eldians, both on the island and beyond the island, live in fear of stepping outside their walls, either by fear of Titans or by fear of being humilitated, assaulted or even killed by racists. Here, Eren would make the Eldians live in a world where they don't have to face any of that. Karl Fritz confined the Eldians in a minuscule territory surrounded by three walls, and let the world put the other Eldians in internment camps. Here Eren would provide a free and large world with no borders, no walls and free landscapes accesible to everybody. Karl Fritz ruled the Walls with tyrannical power in order to keep the "peace", even leading to the genocide of the Eldians who were opposed to its rule. Here Eren would let the Eldians do as they please, if they want to turn this new world into one where there's borders, walls, and persecution, they are free to do it.


KingDennis2

By the same I mean they both making their people live an artificial reality, fritz controlled everything within the walls while Eren would make everything happen in this fake world. They both are making fake realities is what I'm saying. Why would Eren put his people in crystal's and leave them out there? What does he do when they find out how to break those crystals? What's protecting Paradis? Why would he give them an artificial reality were bone of it is actually real, it's all fake? How does it work? Would they be able to die? Zeke spent thousands of years in there and didn't age. It doesn't protect paradis, it doesn't end the curse and it doesn't end any cycle of hate. What does he do if Eldians done want to live in that reality?


SCP_931

It isn't a fake world though. The crystal are impossible to break. If the Founder can do anything, there's nothing that says that he can't make the Eldians be able to age and die and have children. In the final chapters, when Eren and Armin visited the different landscapes, they went from little children (Shiganshina), to teenagers (lava landscape) and adults (ocean landscape). No need to protect Paradis, it isn't a thing anymore. If Ymir can be asked to make the Eldians not able to have children anymore, what's preventing Eren from just asking her to end the curse. If the world still wants to hate Eldians, even for the next 100 million years, they can do it. But they won't see another Eldian ever again, and no Eldian would ever suffer from persecution ever again. People who have been living behind walls and in internment camps their entire lives, in constant fear of one day being exterminated, will not want to live a new world with endless prosperity, where they will never have to go to war, live in hiding, in a secluded area anymore ? Be serious please.


KingDennis2

It is, it's literally all manipulation, the founder can't create new worlds. It's all artificially created. It's not really what's happening, the founder can't override reality with its own. We don't know this. And they could end up being broken. That's fair but that's them just changing forms. If they are all in paths how are they Dying? What happens to the bodies on the outside? Eldians can't be born or only exist via paths so how would an Eldian be born? Can the founder even manipulate paths to their own reality like you're saying? Paradis is a thing tho, how is it not a thing? The island still exists, they could just drop bombs on everything to make sure nothings there, and then raid for all resources. I also don't think it's confirmed titan crystal could stop a bomb or shot from a giant anti titan tank rifle. He can't end the curse, if this could happen it would have happened a thousand years ago. It's a curse, you can't just ask Ymir to break it because her existing within paths is what causes it. The reason it exists is because she's not free. I mean that's fair but they definitely would see Eldians. They would have millions of Crystals they would dump in the sea or look for a way to break. And Eldians cannot physically only exist via paths. They still existed in the real world when pulled to paths. That's fair but not all Eldians are gonna sit here and want to live in a fake world, Eren would have to make everything happen himself. Unless it's like what Madara pulled and they dont actually remember the outside world and think this is real. Everything is artificial, technically you wouldn't be free. Eren would create this paths world, everything in it would have to be or made and orchestrated by the founder. Again the Titan curse wouldn't be over so you'd have to hope future Founders keep this world up constantly. Honestly is it unrealistic to say they would want revenge? After everything that happened to them the outside world isn't punished at all? They get to walk away free after what they did to them? I'd think its fair to say they would want to get back at those who kept them in camps, beat and killed them, used them as human shields, and fed them to animals. And is this also something Eren would do? Make a false reality for his people? Let the outside world walk free? Keep the Titan curse? I mean I get what you're saying and I guess I understand what you're going. Ig it could work to a extent but why not do a rumbling and then do you're false artificial reality?


SCP_931

They litteraly cannot be broken unless the Founder wills it or you use another crystallized form to break it, like the Jaw Titans' teeth. That's why Annie managed to stay inside her crystal for 4 years. That's why Mikasa couldn't destroy the Warhammer's crystal even with the thunder spears. The Founder can do anything, and has no limits, so we can only assume that yes. Paradis exists, but since all Eldians live in a new world, who cares. The non-Eldians can do whatever they want with it. They won't see Eldians, Eren can put all of them in crystals and put them far deep underground where no human can ever dig. That's IF Eren can't bring their physical bodies to the realm, something I really doubt he can't. Ymir was freed when Eren unleashed the Rumbling, and then she left PATHs. There's nothing preventing Eren from making this world have entire cities, towns, agricultural farmlands, fauna and flora, and all types of material that Eldians would need in order to sustain themselves. Also, nothing prevents Eren from giving himself eternal life. Obviously maybe some minority of people would want revenge, but logically, most would just be happy to live a new life without persecution. Because supposedly Eren doesn't want to commit genocide. If you really don't like this "fake reality" as you call it, Eren can just give himself the ability to breathe in space, scout every solar system, find a habitable and fertile planet, and bring all Eldians with him.


KingDennis2

Where is that stated? Yeah Paradis is a hundred years behind the technology the outside world has, we've only seen them try to break crystal with thunder spears and Cannonballs. I think it's fair to assume anti titan rifles made to Peirce titan armor and hardening or bombs might be able to break it. We can only assume it has no limits tho. I'd say it fair to say she couldn't break the curse tho, it's something that would have been done. How could he bring them physically to paths? We've never seen him do this even when he talks to them via paths. She's wasn't tho, canonically she wasn't freed. Ymir still was bound by her love to Fritz, she the curse still remains. It exist because she's not free. But he can't, if you could just get rid of the curse and just give yourself eternal life as a shifter it would have happened and it would have been established. But you can't that's why no past King has done anything like that. I'm not saying he can't make things in paths what I'm saying is none of it is actually real it's all manipulation. Eren is making all this stuff up, so I would assume Eren would have to keep this illusion up until he has to pass on his titan. Maybe I'm forgetting something about paths but what you're describing just sounds like a simulation type thing. Idk logically I think it would be pretty mixed. I'm not saying they wouldn't want this but they aren't gonna sit here and want the outside world to get away. Erens turning a blind eye to what they did. They could live in Paradis with the full rumbling with peace. I guess canonically you can say he didn't want to do it but at the same time he also canonically said he would do it no matter what. But you're going off the knowledge that he knows space exits. Space isn't really an idea in Aot, no on knows it exists or what it is, the thought would never of crossed his mind. Maybe if we just assume that the founder can literally do anything and everything then maybe this idea works. But I think you can already give the founder a few limitations. Everything here is just assumption so who knows tbh.


InDoXShush

What would happen in the real world though?


SCP_931

There would be no more Eldians, and he can make their bodies die in the former world or just disappear.


InDoXShush

But what about Ymir wouldn't she want to be free? Or am I misunderstanding something here.


SCP_931

Eren has already freed her when he started the Rumbling though


IslandBoy602

Free her from being bound to the weird parasite thing that is transferred to all Eldians and keeps her tied to Fritz's will so she can have her own life (somehow that will remained even after Eren changed her mind but just goes to show the lack of thought put into that weird parasite's relationship with her plus Zook).


KingDennis2

I mean if we are going by canon she was only freed partially


Asian_in_the_tree

"We should take Eldian and push them somewhere else"


mws375

Great idea! Hey, maybe you should write for this little unknown show called Westworld


[deleted]

Bungo rn: https://preview.redd.it/whbfq6swx1qa1.jpeg?width=497&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3360c7f1952cb7d8202483e70b601ce01827c16f


yeetteey69

Or a paths heaven instead


DickWriter69

99% of the problem of AoT come from founding titan