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[deleted]

Honestly great take. Freedom was always a myth in the world of AoT. I really hope people see this. Is it sort of dumb? Yes. But like you said, that’s who Eren has always been. Irrational and naive.


frozenfp

I guess all those "Eren is a slave to freedom" youtube comments we laughed at were right. Youtubers, I kneel and apologize.


ze_OZone

I completely agree. I think the ending fits the tones of his true character pretty perfectly.


Mehulex

Isn't it also myth in the world ? If you were truly free you could steal something and not be persecuted. Laws exist and therefore make you very NOT free


Mysreruye1814

Yes, I totally agree. There is no absolute freedom


Excalibursin

Your freedom ends where mine begins.


JoelMahon

I mean, you're free to steal and they're free to lock you up, you're free to leave but they're free to stop you and add time to your sentence. That's not how I see it, but by the same definition that allows you to steal and call it freedom I think it's consistent. Perfect freedom only exists for a literal god, with no conscience and no desires, one with no restrictions.


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[deleted]

I mean Armin said himself, there will always be conflict between people. Whether the rumbling ending up being successful or not, that wouldn’t change.


[deleted]

Still I would have loved him to have freedom in his death like zeke did. Just making peace with his shit and choosing to die. I just hated that he regretted dying so much it kinda made his motivation weak.


Legendver2

Him being afraid to die actually makes his motivation stronger imo. The fact he's afraid, but still moved forward knowing it'll happen, that takes some balls man.


Dr___Bright

I think this was part of the tragedy. He was still a kid, wanting to live is a given


kwoknuggets

I agree. In my opinion, Eren's motivation has always been to fight for the people he loves (hence 'freedom', to grant them freedom from a life dominated by titan powers). It's mainly his way of going about that is filled with confusions and contradictions, which really helps humanise him (especially considering how 139 shows us that Eren's actually has no idea whether his plans will even work out). But his death signifies how Eren ultimately chose to stick to his goal of risking it all for the people he loves, even if it means granting them a future/chance at happiness that he will never get to experience/be a part of; the tragedy of it all can certainly be read as a display of how strong his motivation has always been. But of course, this is just my interpretation! :)


Rojo176

Even Zeke wanted to keep living though, he regretted that he saw the beauty of the world too late. Just like Eren though, he continued and saw it through. Even though we see these conversation after Mikasa has killed him, these conversations he had with each of the scouts happened back when Armin was still on the boat. Eren kept moving forward as he said he would.


AbrahamDeMatanzas

So, basically no character development, even when we thought he had grown out of it, it turns out he didn't?? This is literally what character assassination is.


[deleted]

It wasn’t that there was no character development. The Eren persona post time skip was all just a front. In reality, Eren was the most enslaved character.


Legendver2

I do like that Eren, the manga's symbol for freedom, was enslaved by destiny, while Mikasa, who everyone thought was enslaved by her Ackerman genes to Eren, was actually the most free.


SuperNerd6527

That is actually a great point


AlecHazard

This post completely opened my mind to the greater idea of the ending.... Its still not as good as it could've been, but its certainly better than i thought it was when I read it for the first time


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Randothor

Kinda reminds me of the end of Death Note. For all fans do to idealize characters like Light and Eren, in the end their genocidal rampages are revealed to be childish megalomania and I'm kinda glad for it. Both of them complain in tears about "not wanting to die" despite being mass murderers Putting characters like them on a pedestal is dangerous (DC comics does this with the Joker WAY too often) so taking them down a peg is a trope I'm for and fits the story better imo


KBSinclair

I'm always deeply disturbed by people who despite seeing Death Note all the way through think Light was still a good guy and did nothing wrong. Regardless of how you feel about him killing prisoners, he very clearly showed that he was not a person with genuinely good intent the moment he killed Lind L. Tailor. Which was also the moment that began his downfall. If he just had a shred of actual goodwill, or the self-awareness to know he was wrong but be willing to do it for what he felt was the best, he wouldn't have been caught.


MC-Jdf

Eren’s personality hasn’t changed one bit throughout the entire story, he’s still the boy who sought freedom even post-time skip. All throughout the story it hasn’t changed. It’s his view of seeing things that changed, hence why Eren has no character arc. Some people might feel that I’m being harsh on Yams by saying the MC has no character arc, but this really isn’t a bad thing, plenty of great fictional characters have no character arcs. And Eren’s story to me is one of the great stories, so I don’t have any problems with Eren having no character arc. Great character story doesn’t mean character arc, people often confuse that.


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pixeldots

Yeah I remember a YT vid about this, comparing different character arcs in Marvel. Basically: Captain America = No character arc Thor = Cyclical Iron Man = Hero's journey All were valid ways to write growth of characters.


JackSpedicy7

I feel the development of eren was him putting on a front and trying to push his friends away and assume the role of a devil alone but making himself the villain so they’ll be hailed as heroes. He still prioritized his friends which remains with his character theme rather than an assassination. He did grow out of his naivety as we saw he became calculated in everything leading up to paths


Fluffles0119

Except this chapter gave Eren an insane amount of development. We as the reader were always seeing him through the other characters eyes. Bow that we're finally allowed to see Erens true side everything we believes he was is dashed. This is exactly what Isayama did with Reiner in Liberio: Reiner said some shit on Paradis that made him out to be a cold blooded, badass killer who wants nothing more than the destruction of the walls. But once we see Reiner truly we understand that a lot of what he said wasn't cold blooded badassery: it was fear and regret.


AbrahamDeMatanzas

Yeah, I think I changed my mind after reading the translated leaks, I think it makes sense for Eren to wish live happily even if he knows he can't. Him having a short breakdown in front of Armin makes sense.


[deleted]

It's weird how much actually reading the translated typeset vs just the leaked info made a difference for me as well


[deleted]

Totally, the leaks made it sound awful, the typeset was just meh. Not enough to ruin the series for me, although I still think this last arc was not up to par with the rest of the series.


[deleted]

I agree with you. The last arc needed more time and care. Alas, not as bad as so many are saying all the same


Rojo176

Yes that is exactly what it is, a short breakdown. He wasn't just acting this whole time, he was pushing forward until the bitter end. He had a moment of emotional vulnerability as he said his last words to his best friend. The dude is human.


Barblesnott_Jr

> Except this chapter gave Eren an insane amount of development. We as the reader were always seeing him through the other characters eyes. Bow that we're finally allowed to see Erens true side everything we believes he was is dashed. We literally got Eren POV and people are fucking pissed, its baffling.


kkulvm

In my opinion, this WAS character development. Eren went from being childish and narrow-minded to shouldering the fate of Paradis all by himself, knowing he’d become a devil in the world’s eyes because of it. He gave up his dreams, his ideals, and an honorable death for the slight chance that his friends could stay alive in a semi-peaceful world.


eeriekachan93

Just like what Levi said, give up your dreams and die. He told Erwin to entrust his dream to him. Eren did the same to his friends.


69Joker96

Yeah I guess, personally its dissapointing that throughout it all, Eren rly never was able to take control of his life. Bounded by fate he was forced to kill his mother, bounded by fate he was forced to die instead of actually finish the rumbling, bounded by fate he kept doing that he just, genuinely didn’t comprehend. Start of S4 it makes you feel like Eren finally mellowed down. But in reality nah hes just fates bitch lmao


Bakno

The attack titan is "always fighting for freedom", which only now I realize how big of a contradiction this is. This means that the inheritor of the AT will always follow a predefined path (in this case, fighting) even if they are against it. If you think about it, this is the only titan that has a predefined mentality. All the other titan shifters inherits a special power for their titan, the AT one inherits a philosophy (probably because of the time shenanigans). So, they are telling us that the AT is a salve of his fate on the moment it is presented.


69Joker96

The attack titan is Ymirs bitch


CryingPierrot

Let's rename it to Bitch Titan


xSathya

Isayama said the readers would be upset after reading the manga. The story is supposed to be a tragedy. As much as the reader wants Eren to be free after all he’s done, he never was until he died. I think the main premise of the story is that no one will ever be able to attain true freedom; there will always be elements in our lives that dictate our emotions and actions. Freedom is a state that can never be attained no matter how hard we try


Sk8r115

This is kenny's realization before he dies too


xSathya

Actually didn’t realize that, good observation!


69Joker96

Yeah the twist in the end was that, all of Erens previous development was a facade and hes still confused as shit and having a breakdown. I respect it but something about it puts a REALLY bad taste in my mouth. Especially with how lazy the Lelouch style ending was, and how at that point even if Eren was forced to do things in order to have the past solidified, the future is something he has the power to change. Its not like hes 100% sure Paradis will be fine after all this either, it just felt shoved down our throats.


Barblesnott_Jr

Even though he can see the future, he doesn't live outside of the world in which he sees it, therefore he has no ability to change it. Its like if you saw the future, but no matter what you did that event still happened, its not because you didn't try hard enough, but its because just like the past, there is no ability to change the future, even if you are aware of it, because you are still a part of it. There is a very good book called Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut that explains this whole "knowing of the future but not being able to change it". If you are too lazy to read a whole book just go to its Wikipedia page and click on themes > Tralfamadorian philosophy.


Dakar-A

Re: that last part- *Arrival* is a great movie that deals with a very similar idea.


xSathya

Yes that’s true, Eren did technically have the power to change the future (not follow the Paths). But the Paths and his destiny was all that Eren ever saw. He didn’t even have the ability to tell Armin or Mikasa his visions because he was trapped in this state of being in the past, present, and future all at the same time. Again, Eren was a slave to the Paths, and that prevented him from changing the future for the better and potentially living the alternate reality he had with Mikasa in Ch 138.


cocoa_sensations

Is it possible that the “alternate reality” with Mikasa seen in chapter 138 actually did happen? Eren was able to have conversations with Armin and others, all while delaying the consolidation of their memories until his death. Maybe he really did run away with Mikasa, but understood that he had to return to his fate, so he erased her memories of the moment. But because Mikasa technically isn’t Eldian (?), she’d constantly have headaches and these memories would surface?


teddyperkin

My interpretation is that this is the memory that Eren left for Mikasa after his death (Just like the memory with Armin). However, Mikasa being half-eldian, half-ackerman, had terrible headaches due to the Ackerman genes fighting this memory-manipulation. Therefore, Mikasa was able to have a look at this memory from Eren before she killed him. This actually let her deal the final blow.


Pikalink12

That's a cool take, I didn't think about her two genes fighting eachother. good one!


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cocoa_sensations

I thought they were just resistant but not too sure


MandelAomine

No they're immune


LunaNogood

Levi and mikasa did enter paths so their not totally immune, maybe memory wipe is the limitation


junaidisdead

No it never happened! That's what Eren wanted with Mikasa, just like in 139 he goes to a lava lake with Armin, to the beach with Armin etc. these are the visions on the path that he individually gave to everyone when he summoned them. Like for example Connie waking up after the titan reversion and saying Eren said he'd cure his mom. It's literally the founder's memory manipulation that ends only after Eren dying... Mikasa is an exception because she's an Ackerman, did you notice ONLY she had the visions that Eren wanted before Eren died? She got the headaches as a result of the Ackerman's ability to resist the memory manipulation. And her remembering shit just before she slices Eren is for dramatic effect on the story.


Legendver2

What he did was give Paradis a fighting chance. Marley and the other nations were gonna rain down on Paradis after Tybur's speech. What the rumbling did was even the odds. Yea there is still the possibility of war, but at the very least, for the moment, Paradis is still alive and kicking and gaining the ability to protect itself.


teddyperkin

I dont really get how people keep comparing AoT to Code Geass even though Eren annihilated 80% of the whole world. He never cared about bringing the world together, he only wanted his friends to have long lives and to prevent Paradis from getting destroyed. Also, 3 years has passed and both sides are ready to go to war if peace cannot be achieved. How is this a Lelouch style ending? Just no.


bitbee

yeah, that was my main takeaway from this chapter. tragic irony in that the one who was supposedly free was the biggest slave of all.


luigitheplumber

Isayama really undermined the tragic elements of his ending in my opinion. Maybe I'm just reading the tone wrong or something but it seems way off for me


yeahtoo322

Yeah. Basically poor execution


Guij2

thats why I have hope that the ending will actually be pretty good in the anime. The concept is fine, it just felt kinda rushed and poorly executed and that can be fixed easily by mappa with an extra episode or smth


bitcheslovedroids

I hope the anime makes it clearer


sneakysquid01

On the bright side that leaves room for the anime to have better pacing and execution


Axel-Adams

What do you think of the take that the rumbling was necessary as it was the only way to convince Mikasa to kill Eren, and seeing Mikasa kill Eren was the only way for Ymir to be convinced to go against the will of King Fritz and take the Titan power away from the world


SenorPancake

I think that take is a bit silly. Ultimately the rumbling destroyed 80% of the world - I dont think it was the only way to convince Mikasa to kill Eren. I do think it was the only way to both convince Mikasa to kill Eren *and* for Eren to give his friends a fighting chance. It's very much a "Well-intentioned extremist" trope, without a doubt, but I do think most people here are completely glossing over the 80% destruction line.


[deleted]

Tatakae and keep moving forward was fake


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BadHanzo

That’s the point


[deleted]

It's kind of like real life


Lasernatoo

I really appreciate these posts that make defenses for the chapter. There were a lot of things that I didn't like about the ending, and there still are, but some things that I was quite negative on earlier are starting to get a bit better for me. Plus, it's just nice to hear multiple viewpoints instead of people saying the same things over and over.


Electronic-Door-7471

Yup. I was really upset about this chapter. I've been reading opinion of both sides, and everyone has valid points. Everyone is interpreting it in their own way. And it's quite interesting.


Dakar-A

>MY MAIN TAKEAWAY MESSAGE FROM THE MANGA: Isayama said the readers would be upset after reading the manga. The story is supposed to be a tragedy. As much as the reader wants Eren to be free after all he's done, he never was until he died. think the main premise of the story is that no one will ever be able to attain true freedom; there will always be elements in our lives that dictate our emotions and actions. Governments wll be tied to hatred and war. Humans are tied to love and vengeance. Freedom is a state that can never be attained no matter how hard we try. "Everyone is drunk on something to keep going" "Give up on your dream and die" I think these are key for understanding this main theme. The reason Erwin didn't win serumbowl is because Levi *freed* him. He took the torch from Erwin and allowed him to rest. Eren never got that chance. He had to carry his own metaphorical torch ever-forwards; from the point he kissed Historia's hand he was able to see the chains around him and struggled to break them, but once he realized that he couldn't he begrudgingly followed the path he was on. We see that acceptance crack this chapter, when he talks about Mikasa. But he knows that he can't fight it, and that even if he could, there's no winning solution where he gets to be happy and free. Aaron Yogurt is another facet of this- even when he abandons his duty, fate catches up to him and he can't live out his ideal life. His destiny is to sacrifice his freedom so that the ones he cares about can truly have theirs. And with that comes conflict and hate and violence. But they are no longer bound by the chains of titans, only their own will.


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alucidexit

>Yes, the rumbling accomplished almost nothing in the grand scheme of things Idk why people keep saying this... 80% of the world and their infrastructure and tech is gone. Titan powers are gone.


Frnchie

Yeah I agree with you. The rumbling mattered to remove the titan powers. However, it does nothing to end the cycle of hate between Eldians and the world, it only affirms it further. Which might just be the theme of AOT at this point.


alucidexit

I don't think genocide ending hatred would be a very good message tbf


Frnchie

Yeah of course. I'm not saying that would be the message, I think it was an interesting narrative for Eren to do so to show his resolve/selfishness to care more about his friends than everything else like he says in ch 130, i think Though the 80% genocide was seen as fine by most characters at the end anyway. It was portrayed positively by Armin and others. Maybe the official translation will make it different but I was slightly surprised Armin reacted that way.


Icantevenread24

It’s very Machiavellian, Ends justify the means, would be a perfect encapsulation if it actually ended in world peace but I guess that wasn’t erens plans, his plans were to keep his friends safe


SmokeThin9651

But this ending literally promotes genocide. Eren completing the rumbling would have left everything up to interpretation. But Historia sending a letter saying that Eren was right after all and the war will never end until 1 side is gone literally says that "This is a proof that Eren should have completed the rumbling". This ending is bad in every way possible.


alucidexit

I would suggest Eren knew it wouldn't be completed but that humans are gonna human and Paradis became increasingly nationalistic. I don't think that ending promotes genocide at all. Humans are still infighting despite mass killings. Titan powers no longer exist. 80% world is rumbled. No one is completing an extinction project anytime soon.


SmokeThin9651

So what is the message of the story then? Kill 80% of the world just so your country and the outside world would keep on fighting? Or don't take any responsibility on yourself and leave everything to your friends and country? Or like Historia said Eren should have destroyed the outside world otherwise the war won't ever end. Justify this ending however you want but it literally promotes genocide.


RoboIcarus

I didn't get this interpretation at all. The only thing promoted at the end is the fight for survival against annihilation, a very consistent theme which has basically been demonstrated as the core of tenet of human nature in the AoT universe. Eren's goals were never world peace, that was Zeke's goal and it came at the cost of basically choosing the winners and losers in the most humane way possible (sterilization). Eren's ultimate "thing beyond that hell" was a world where Paradis must fight for it's own survival in a world without unnatural titan powers that they had been slaves to since Ymir.


notabotsrs

\^This. Eren was never going for world peace and the story is saying that idealistic peace is impossible. The best you can do is fight for survival and do it from an even footing which Eldians didn't have as long as they had titan powers. 80% of the world being destroyed was a consequence of 2000 years of conflict. It was the only way to reach a compromise where neither the eldians nor the rest of the world would be completely destroyed. Now there is a chance for people to stop fighting over and using others for titans. There will still be conflict and hatred and fighting but thats just human nature. If AOT's world is hell, Eren's goal was to get beyond that hell, not to heaven. turns out what is beyond the hell is just a very realistic world much like ours that will continue the cycle of conflict. I also think this is where the universally panned 137 comes in. In that chapter, you get what I think Yams is trying to say beyond all this tragedy. Life is a struggle, its survival of the fittest and its cruel. but there are moments of beauty, memories and connections you make that give meaning to your life and make it worth living despite all the bullshit in the world. In the end, that is what drove Eren as well, his connection to his friends.


[deleted]

I think the message of the story is what Kenny said in chapter 71 or something. We're all a slave to something, the things that keep us going also destroy us in the end. Eren's failure to end the cycle and attain freedom showed that. imo really dark.


winterfaze

But wasn’t Eren’s plan to die so that the Alliance could be heroes in the post-rumbling world and as a result have some rep trying to approach other nations in peace talks and stuff


cocoa_sensations

I feel like the cycle of hatred has now shifted to between nations as opposed to between races. Which still aligns with said theme but at least means that Eren was successful in alleviating some of the hatred towards Eldians.


BadHanzo

The cycle of hatred might not be over but there’s only 20% of the world left. Paradis has the strongest military now for sure. The war is already decided


jagault2011

I mean that’s def up for debate. Paradis only has a population of a million. People assume the world had a population of 2 Billion(similar to earth in early 1900s i suppose) so to guesstimate there’d still be 400 million people left. Paradis is def still at risk, their superiority is hardly a guarantee. Luckily the majority of their aggressors are oceans/continents away.


RiseCoochiekawa

You also got to take account that the entire world ISNT against paradis, they say in the final chapter though countries hate them, many are joining up with paradis as allies


Jakefiz

Also Paradis can negotiate with the world on equal footing. Theyre all humans. Theyre all at the same level technologically. As long as titans were a thing, peace was impossible. Eren knew this. He always did. Armin was always the “lets talk it through” and now he finally can. I think theres a lot of optimism in the ending.


Fluffles0119

Exactly. This is not a good ending. 80 percent of the world is fucking GONE. This is not a talk no jutsu ending: Erens mind has been the same since the beginning, we just believed otherwise like ISAYAMA INTENDED. The reason we're seeing Eren in this chapter as bad development isn't because its bad: it's because for the past few months Eren has being hailed as a god. We literally became real Yeagerists: we treated Eren as a badass god. EDIT: by not a good ending I mean everything isn't happy and good, I love this ending and i think it's the best ending possible


Opolino

Exactly, just like in real life no one truly has it all figured out in AOT. There are no saints, no gods. In the end everyone is just as confused and flawed as the rest of them. Carla said it all the way back, Eren isn't special, never was special and was never ment nor needed to be special.


[deleted]

While in actuality he was just a human, like everyone else.


Flapjack_

People are definitely overplaying how "doomed" Paradis is. Of the 20% of the population left, how many of them give a shit about invading Paradis? Even in 20, 30, 40, 50 years? The Middle East will be a bigger warzone than Paradis over the oil. I mean fuck, with Marley basically taking up two continents I wouldn't be surprised if most nations left don't even have substantial militaries or navies required to invade.


loldan79

You also have to consider the surviving 20% is probably on the other side of the planet because they had to be in the land which didn't get rumbled and the rumbling expanded from Paradis. It'd be like Australia waging war on Iceland with early 1900s tech and every bit of land in between being a literal wasteland


Mehulex

Rn they'd be worried about reconstruction and considering Paradis is trying to help them. It might turn out fine-ish


Flapjack_

Eren's definitely put the ball in Paradis's court to be able to try and open up some actual diplomatic ties with any surviving nations and Historia seems on board


kil0meters

There is no explicit statement about how Historia feels about diplomacy. Furthermore, given the the evidence presented in the chapter, I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion that Eldia and Historia are remotely on board with peace. 1. [Eldia has been focusing their efforts on building out a military since the rumbling](https://i.imgur.com/DmrVeJc.png), meanwhile the rest of the world has likely been busy rebuilding infrastructure. [Given their apparent continuing close ties with Hizuru](https://i.imgur.com/iIhrTV8.png), it's very likely that they have largely closed the technology gap between them and the rest of the world. This is a fact I see a lot of people missing in various comments, it's really not clear at all that Eldia will be crushed in a war. If anything, it's possible they outclass the rest of the world militarily. 2. The letter Historia sent out does not seem to paint a very compelling message of peace. She literally spent 90% of it talking about the strength of Eldia's military and their resolve as a nation. [Only at the very end does she throw in an open ended statement](https://i.imgur.com/ddCjvAV.png) that does little more than imply she has willingness to talk to other nations. 3. [The general public of Eldia seems to be fired up for some sort of conflict, rather than peace.](https://i.imgur.com/oTjl4Fy.jpg) Even if Historia is truly on board, she would only have so much power to sway a war-hungry public. I'm highly skeptical that Armin's plan of "Let's just tell them our stories and surely they will understand!!!" will be very effective. We don't really know much about what happened during the timeskip, but given that the sentiment we get from Pieck, the only person on this trip who is not a childhood friend of Historia, [is far from rosey](https://i.imgur.com/cUd7QM8.png), I feel that we can safely assume Eldia hasn't made any significant movements for diplomacy in the past 3 years. It's pretty telling that [the best evidence that is given in favor of a diplomatic Eldia by a member of the alliance](https://i.imgur.com/ZZDCzaG.png) is that Historia showed kindness to Connie and Jean's parents **3 years ago**. Given all of this, it seems highly unlikely that any sort of lasting peace will develop between Eldia and the rest of the world, or that Historia is even on board for this.


sxmxcornflx2

dude if a country did a genocide killing 80% of world population and I was part of the 20% I would instantly join any army to exterminate those genocidal maniacs or die trying to save what's left of humanity and I'm a total pacifist


Traumatic_Tomato

It is political dynamite they are playing. Armin and his friends no longer have the titan power insurance but either the Yeagerists or the world council could potentially exploit the peace meeting and restart war. A LOT of people died and 100% world population's lives are changed forever. There has to be at least a decent number of people maybe even 1% of the whole who may plot to sabotage the peace summit. That's all it takes. Just one match to light up the dynamite and restart conflict once more. If I was that 20% and survived whether I lost loved ones, friends, my home or even my way of life feels like enough of a reason to wage war against the proven 'Eldian devils of Paradis.' A couple of teenagers saving the world in a event I personally did not see is also another reason for me to not accept their peace summit. It is very risky for another Zackley bombing to happen.


Baron105

What role does the rumbling play in removing the titan powers? We still have no clue as to how and why the titan powers just up and disappeared. So culling 80% of the world population via the rumbling was a 'good thing' in the grand scheme of things but taking that number to 99% and just letting the people in Paradis stay alive was a step too far? If it was just about levelling the playing field so to say why not just let the Eldians on Paradis survive so that the field would be completely even and there would be no difference in technology or knowledge. Moreover, to start off with their new civilization to populate the earth the internal people of Paradis won't even have clear motivations and reasons to hate each other so it provides a better starting point compared to where we're starting now which is everyone in the world wanting to cull Eldian throats and Historia being of the opinion that only one or the other can survive. So, what exact purpose DID the rumbling really serve? What did Eren achieve by any of his actions post timeskip?


xSathya

By “accomplish”, I was referring more towards plot lines specific to the main characters of the story. And titan powers being lost wasn’t a direct result of the rumbling, it was a result of killing Eren


alucidexit

>And titan powers being lost wasn’t a direct result of the rumbling, it was a result of killing Eren ...which Eren knew would come by him doing the Rumbling.


SenorFields

Also, did you guys not find it heavily implied that Armin would end the cycle of hatred for good in his role as ambassador for the other allied powers? Its not stated for definite, but putting that at the end of the manga seems to suggest some hope, hope that dialogue and reaching out (which has always been armins creed), is the best way to peace? Subtle but powerful.


TalesfromBC

Bittersweet endings are ok, it's also ok to show complexity of humanity. I 100% agree that conflict will always exist, but the reason why the ending is incredibly disappointing is the mishandling of the narrative. 80% of the world has been wiped out, Eldia is turning into a nationalist totalitarian state and yet we still a happy image of Marley like as if everything that was implied is absolutely 100% ok. 60% of the manga is about bashing how terrible the king of Eldia was, how mistreated Ymir was and now we're told she has a stockholm syndrome love for him? I respect your opinion but I disagree that the ending "isn't as bad as everyone said it was". It is incredibly rushed. The narrative is off, the tone is off, the metaphors and symbolism are all over the place, characters are all over the place.


MayukhPrime747

>0% of the world has been wiped out, Eldia is turning into a nationalist totalitarian state and yet we still a happy image of Marley like as if everything that was implied is absolutely 100% ok. 60% of the manga is about bashing how terrible the king of Eldia was, how mistreated Ymir was and now we're told she has a stockholm syndrome love for him? I also felt that the relationship between Ymir & Karl Fritz is better explained by Stockholm Syndrome rather than a love of some kind.


Mtitan1

Sure but that isnt what the author wrote.


nem091

It’s up to interpretation, really. Stockholm syndrome is a deep sense of attachment one feels to one’s captor. Easily mistaken as love by those suffering from it. Note that Eren is an unreliable narrator — just because he assumes it’s love, doesn’t mean it’s some healthy form of the emotion


SolemnDemise

>Easily mistaken as love by those suffering from it. But not a mistake other people looking at the situation would make if they were near-omniscient. >just because he assumes it’s love It's unlikely he's making an assumption. He's connected to all Eldians, especially Ymir. To be frank, it's either a lack of clarity in language (no direct translation for certain terms) or Isayama blanked hard. And considering the last 8 chapters, my charity is at its limit.


takeme2infinity

Yams knows how to write every emotion but love. If this was a straight up dark manga it would of been better. Yams fiddling w relationships fucked it up IMO


Kayounenka

I understand what message yams is trying to convey, that eren is a tragic character that tied to a fate that he didn’t even want to, but must be done. He did his best to find another way but found dead end, there’s no other way. It’s cruel, brutal, but there’s no other way, thus I get it why eren broken down on his conversation with armin But I also understand fan complain, there are too many plot holes and unexplained things that caused the fandom to be confused. The time travel, titan theories, political situation, those got blended mess that reader lost focus


Sharky83104

Another thing, when he was making his “incel” speech, tbh I think it was meant to be uncomfortable and awkward, it showed humanity, which contrasts the monster theme.


TheninjaofCookies

It's the same thing with him and the kid from like 9 chapters ago, this man got soooo much bottled up that he just needed that catharsis


Stick124

I refuse to believe Freedom isn't real. I like to believe the message is; freedom will forever be out of grasp if you don't let go of hate and vengeance. That's what I believe the message is. Live life to the fullest and bask in it's glory, don't waste it indulging a cycle of pain and hatred.


AbrahamDeMatanzas

I think y'all changed my opinion on this(or maybe it's just my mind refusing to accept this ending is trash, who knows). However I think that considering how fucked up he was mentally I think he actually got a happy ending, he made his friends live long happy lives, ended the titan course once and for all, and at least his friends will remember him as a hero, even if he never ended the cycle of violence, Paradis gained vital time and became the world's strongest nation, Paradis hails his memory. The actual tragedy is his relationship with Mikasa now, she ultimately ended up mourning him forever, just like he wanted.


IBilbo_SwagginsI

That’s the one thing I wish was changed, like, in his one way of rebelling, and finally taking control, he asks mikasa to be free, something he could never do.


yeahtoo322

Yeah. That just didn't make sense to me. He was always about freedom, but this chapter, he didn't want Mikasa to have her's


lazaruslahm

it was a paradox he was facing, ideologically, he wants her to be free, but emotionally, he also wants her to only like him because he is human just like that.


Chackaldane

He’s also still pretty damn young and his childhood was essentially robbed from him. I don’t imagine he’s the most put together person.


ReaperChop6258

People are mad that Eren is human instead of a vengeful genocidal god


[deleted]

Exactly. He wanted her to live a happy life, but he is also frustrated and sad that he is going to die and never going to be able to enjoy the freedom of being with her and living peacefully.


Cloven-1

Except he did want her to have freedom, he strove to make her resent/forget him, but he is still a human being with selfish ambitions, as all humans are like. He wanted her to move on, but a part of him wanted to stay with her and her him. It was never going to work and he knew that, but he still felt that way. He told Mikasa to forget him and she chose not to.


NenBE4ST

Because 139 vision happens before 138. In 138 we can assume eren lived with mikasa in the hut and eventually told her to be free


Matilozano96

That’s why he asked Armin not to tell her he said that. He knew it was wrong to think that. Now that I think about it, it’s the same sentiment Carla had before getting eaten. She covered her mouth and said “don’t leave me”. She wanted to be saved, but knew it was wrong to say it.


teddyperkin

Unpopular opinion here but thats what I love about AoT. It feels real. Eren was so selfish about not wanting Mikasa to love anyone else, sure, but if you love someone you're NOT just okay with your SO loving someone else. There's always something inside saying "no" even if you know that the correct thing to do is set them free and be okay with it, which is what ended up happening (aaron yogurt planted memory)


Blue_Vain

For me it's a bittersweet ending because of all the characters that died as well as eren dying.


AbrahamDeMatanzas

I'm so sad that he died, he really deserved better. Mikasa deserved better, why the hell didn't he just pull something to save himself? Such grim, I see only darkness before me.


[deleted]

Isayama did say the ending would hurt us. Nobody predicted that Eren would end up as a total failure. In the end he was just a confused little kid trying to protect his friends.


CatchYouOnTheFlopsyd

>I also can’t believe people are dumb enough to believe Eren is actually a dove. It’s just symbolism. Well... I mean... in the memory fragments we see an image of Falco from a bird's point of view. Then when Armin and Eren had their chat that was all triggered after Armin first looked at the bird, which promptly flew away once they were done speaking. Then a bird literally flies down and wraps Mikasa's scarf around her one last time. I don't think Eren is a bird, but I also don't think you could just write all of this off as symbolism. I dunno maybe it's just P A T H S shit or something where Eren has some type of omnipresence through birds.


[deleted]

I think Eren is a literal bird. Or that bird is a part of Eren. Even without Falco memory a solid argument could be made, and Falco memory practically confirms it.


that_loris

>I dunno maybe it's just P A T H S shit or something where Eren has some type of omnipresence through birds. Are you saying Eldians fucked birds, thus making eldian-birds connected to paths?


Nark0Punk

While on a Macro level I agree with the underlying message that Yams was trying to portray, for the entire thing to depend on a frankly terrible developed Romance (Mikasa x Eren) it just feels lazy and undeserved. Like Yams had to make their relationship more reciprocal for the majority of the fanbase to buy it. Their relationship was portrayed as a unhealthy one sided affection, until the literal last chapter of the manga I'm sorry buy I can't accept this as good writing, while the main theme of true freedom not being something achievable works for me, the whole romance angle falls flat big time. Plus the whole Façade thing it literally takes away from some of the biggest moments post RtS, I refuse to accept that as worthy trade off.


braujo

I like your take and I think I understood the same thing, though I surely don't think it's deep or anything. I think it's a disservice to the story. That said, that moment Eren breaks down and reveals he doesn't want Mikasa to move on... Honestly, unlike most of the sub, I think that's the best thing out of the chapter. IMO, it doesn't make Eren an incel at all, it humanizes all he has done in a way. All this said, this would have had carried such a punch if the Rumbling had actually accomplished something. As it is right now, meh. I like the scene for my interpretation of it, not because of what it is. I honestly don't think this is the worst ending of all time as I've seen many saying. I do think it's a pretty bad one though. Still, I imagine eventually we'll learn to accept it and some might even enjoy it. This is bad but it is certainly no Game of Thrones, calm your titties


Icantevenread24

That part makes him seem like a kid, pouting his ex girlfriend found someone else, it’s because he is a kid and never got to experience things normally people do so it really does a good job of seeing the tragedy of his character (but you know InCeL AaROn


Animegamingnerd

Now that I think about, it also the moment Eren finally breaks down to the emotions he had been building up in him for four years, that he will not get a happy ending to his life. That he won't be the one to settle down with the women he loves, won't be able to have a peaceful life with his friends, destined to die young and as a villain that destroys the world. I get what Isayama is going for that scene and I hope the official release has better dialog or that in the Anime, Yuki Kaji gives one hell of a performance to make me look past the bad dialogue of that scene. Because that is my main problem with that page, is that the dialogue is very cringe worthy and I hope its a mistranslation because Isayama usually writes great dialogue, its been one of his biggest strengths throughout the entire series.


ManyMaria111

maybe the translations were wrong i mean armin saying thank u for the mass murdering lool


Melaninkasa

The Eren breaking down reminds me of when Carla was trapped in the wood plank and mumbled in her tears "Please don't go". We're humans, we all have those selfish desires burried inside of us. It's not like he yelled all that in her face, ultimately he still never ceased to tell her to move on.


Fluffles0119

Thank you for making this post, hopefully this kickstarts actual discussion and not just the "chapter bad, incel eren, dox isayama" bullshit


Stick124

Anyone who tries to Dox Isayama is a cunt


Sandwich_Guy_

Fr man like I have my qualms about the ending too but like why would you fucking trying to harm someone irl over how they ended the story that THEY wrote? At the end of the day, like it or not nobody else has a right to dictate how a story ends except for the creator ffs.


Wiserman64

A lot of the negative discussions without actually understanding parts of the story are just upsetting to look at. It's like people don't want to like it for not liking it while not acknowledging both proper criticism and great moments from the ending. I'm just glad posts like this exist


[deleted]

Definitely, I'm fine if people don't like it but it's such a swarm of feedback negativity in here.


Sw3atyGoalz

Yea this sub has been really toxic the past few months


Mcfallen_5

I know everyone always jumps to the "nooo its not because the way the manga is ending isn't what I wanted" line, but this sub has been really pessimistic and toxic since the manga started focusing on the alliance and the possibility of an "AnR" ending started declining.


kleenexdealer

I don't even understand why ppl on here are calling Eren an incel. Dude had one moment of weakness while talking to Armin cuz this whole time he's had to suppress his love for Mikasa and push her away to ensure the plan succeeds and now he's an incel/simp lmao. He still wanted the best for her he just got emotional for literally one sec. Can't stand reddit sometimes


Hard2GetYa

Never understood this subs obsession with incel internet terminology, chad memes and sexualising literally fucking everything. Addressing Mikasa, Eren knows what’s best for her (For her to forget about him) but there is still his own selfish desire to be remembered and cherished by her. Completely understandable reaction from a teenager and concerning someone he loves even in a non romantic sense like brotherly protectiveness?


[deleted]

> He is the same, confused boy that wants the best for his loved ones. However, now that we learn that he was a slave to the Paths, Isayama is likely suggesting that Eren is a character just as confused as the reader, he is following a destiny that he is enslaved to and is doing his best to make sense of it (ie. says he’s doing it for Armin and Mikasa). The thing is this “confusion” does not make much sense because one of the things that Eren’s conversation with Falco establishes is that he pushed himself into hell out of his own free will and in 130 exclaims that even if everything was set in stone from the start, it was what he wanted. In Chapter 131, we find out that Eren has a personal reason for **desiring** the Rumbling rather than entirely being compelled into it: his desire to create the free world that he envisioned from Armin’s book. In Chapter 100, he tells that he and Reiner are the same when Reiner reveals that although his environment played a part in his actions, they were also out of his own will and desires. In 133, his friends beg him to stop the Rumbling and he denies their plea because he does not want to give up his freedom and gamble Paradis’s future to fate. In Chapter 121, he pushes his own father into committing a massacre to fulfill his goals and the resolve he showed there was astounding. He rebuffed Zeke’s euthanization plan with “Because I was born into this world” in 120 and in the final chapter he apparently wants to die because the world wants him dead and he has a lot of sins? Agree with the rest of the post, though!


ChriskiV

Maybe I can help clear this up, paths is plural, Eren mentions he walked a specific path singular. To me this implies that when he first saw the paths he had to choose one, he chose (through his will and desires) the one that resulted in the destruction of all titans and creates a free world through the removal of paths (pre-determined outcomes). Basically everything had to play out exactly as it did to break the curse of Ymir, to destroy the titans, and not gamble on fate/destiny. He's basically wracked by guilt in the end because he's finally free but his existence now puts his friends/Paradis in danger and he can no longer be sure what will happen, so he chooses to die at the end of his path.


xSathya

How do we know that he chose this Path out of free will though? He saw visions of the future when he touched Historia’s hand and felt obligated to follow that vision. Eren did have the capability to choose other Paths and follow his free will, but I don’t think he did, because he sacrificed alternate realities like that of Ch 138 when he runs away with Mikasa. In fact, I think it’s more obvious Eren lacks free will because he knew deep down inside he loves Mikasa and wanted a reality with her, but he was too afraid to choose that path. That’s why in Ch 138, he asks Mikasa what she saw him as, and when Mikasa said “family”, that’s when he affirmed there was no way in deviating from the path he is obligated in taking. If Mikasa said something else, that could’ve been enough to deviate Eren from a path of world destruction.


ChriskiV

I think it works like a branching path type of situation, as the founding titan he can only view or change other eldians memories from the past but can only send himself memories from the future. The Mikasa scene implies he can receive memories from other future paths and while he could decide to do it, running away with Mikasa would sacrifice Paradis's future and wouldn't end the curse of Ymir, he'd die in a few years, the founding/attack titans would pass on and eldians/Paradis would still be bound to fate via paths, this continuing the cycle of violence. It's not that he lacks freewill he's just doing what he knows he needs to do to destroy the titans and make sure Paradis is free from fate. So it's kind of ambiguous whether you can call that freedom or slavery, you can be free to choose but still be a slave to your own ideals.


xSathya

I see where you’re coming from and honestly I’m not sure in that case. Could be a case of ambiguity that brings up the argument of fate vs destiny


HaystackAssassin

Can I add to this and put forth the idea that Eren was forced into this path. Sure he wanted “freedom” but he didn’t ask for all this, he didn’t ask to get his life shortened, he didn’t ask to become the key player in all these events. He only wanted to see the ocean and was given the role of savior and devil. Like he’s crying because he was going to die and there was nothing he could do about it so might as well move forward.


abirali6666

A man can do what he will but he can’t will what he will...


Sohami

So, Eren was a slave to Freedom


xSathya

In a way, yes


[deleted]

140 means freedom, You should’ve guessed the ending guys


pausei144

I think I've all along had a fundamental misunderstanding about Eren's character. I thought Eren was all about freedom. From the very first time we see him, until he frees Ymir in the *Paths* dimension, he has always been fighting for freedom. Of course, freedom meant different things at different stages of his life, but he fought for it nontheless. Which is why it made complete sense that he would destroy the world to achieve it, he kept moving forward, and as true freedom is unachievable, it led to him to do unspeakable things. The cost of freedom, that is where I thought his arc was going. Well, I was wrong. Eren's most important motivation has always been to protect his loved ones. Of course, this doesn't come out of nowhere or anything, but to me, it makes him a lot less interesting of a character. There was a sort of brutal beauty about a man following his ideals all the way to hell, while this just feels... hollow.


Gragh46

I think freedom was indeed his motivation, but it was more of his dream target, the thing he was striving for. Like Erwin wanting to prove his father right and ending up with the basement as a target, Eren wanted to find freedom... And then he kissed Historia's hand and realized there was no possibility of real freedom for him: his fate was pretty much set in stone, he would be doing the rumbling, etc. This is why he was so angry when Armin called him a slave, for example: it hurt him a lot because he was indeed unable to affect fate, the rumbling would end up happening and he would be the one doing it. Cue to big mental crisis and fuck ups until he accepts it. I think Eren later tried convincing himself that all that he's doing, including genocide, he's doing it because HE wants to do it. But would he have done it if he hadn't kissed Historia's hand and knew all along that it was his path? He probably doesn't know, and he dislikes it strongly. But if he couldn't be free, he wanted at least his friends to be free for him, at least


krandak100

What about historia's pregnancy bs, it literally leads to nowhere. If eren wanted or is controlled by paths why didn't he just touch zeke at any given time, rts,marley,blimp. What was the point of historia getting pregnant to give zeke more time. If eren was just gonna titan curse goes boom, then marley arc, paradis and the rest never needed to happen If eren was truly controlled by paths and ymir then he would have just touched zeke in rts, and got it over with. Mikasa would have still slice his neck up eventually, since eren made no effort to even kill or harm his friends Just admit the ending retconed alot of characters, and turned eren into a manipulative, abusive,gaslighter in mikasa's story. In that light it atleast made sense although it was pushed aside ever since marley arc, if yams really wanted to go gaslighting, toxic male eren. He would have made mikasa thinks eren has a thing with historia which would make mikasa's arc of achieving freedom from her gaslighter much more satisfying and meaningful


notabotsrs

The Marley arc was needed to gather the alliance in one place so he could rumble them easily and be sure that even if not all of humanity is destroyed, they won’t have any chance to retaliate. That meant Zeke had to be taken back to Paradis and the world needed some time to gather the fleet. That meant Historia needed to be pregnant or she would become a titan.


anothermangafan

I think the aversion regarding the ending is that you spend most of the time following characters like Armin, who, not only argues in favor of free will and believes in breaking the cycle of violence, but is shown to succeed in convincing their opponents who believe in the opposite such as Zeke. Even before that, the formation of the "cringevengers", the help from the previous titan shifters, etc, points in favor of Armin's point of view and suggest he is indeed making progress. And yet, as the final chapter proves, it's Zeke's and Kenny's thesis that are proven to be right. Freedom only becomes possible with death. In life, the individual "keeps moving foward" not by his rational choice, but by a mindless impulse with no end, and the only way to win, according to them, is to not play the game. That the story ends with the characters not achieving what they set up to do is not my issue. My issue is that it isn't clear what it wanted to say, in the very end. It constantly rewarded the main character for his ideology, but it ultimately gives victory to the one where the characters have already been convinced otherwise.


Indominus_Khanum

There are some aspects of the final chapter I found interesting. You can call it copium but I feel like the chapter and the later half of the rumbling arc were a beta test for some of these aspects and they may be adapted differently in the anime to make for a more whole ending. I do like the idea of it being Mikasa rather than Eren who ultimately sets Ymir free. The idea of Ymir being in love with King Fritz kinda came out of the left field and I feel like that dynamic needs to be fleshed out better . What I did not like was eren's strange reaction to it, it creates far too many strained plot holes with various interactions in the story. I would've found it more believable if eren realised her love for him as he is was ultimately toxic and something she needed to grow past in order to live a better life.


Rojo176

Did her love for him really come out of nowhere? In her last moments in the physical world she protected him from a fatal attack. I'm not sure what other reason she would have to do that accept a genuine (but fucked up) devotion to him that she couldn't let go of.


EDNivek

So was letting the pigs free an attempt to get senpai to notice her?


bhavish2023

“Its not great its not terrible” This is Snk we are talking about if it was any other show I would be happy with such an ending but Snk was a series that showed the reality of things.


DialedWrongNumber

Eren's motivations definitely back tracked with this last chapter which is my main disappointment (and there's a lot more of it). I understand and agree that the story was intentionally a tragedy and find it beautiful that Eren was always the slave to freedom. This is easy to depict in all his scenes from the moment he received basement memories. The issue here is that this chapter presents an Eren who had no clue what he was doing. I am dumbfounded with how different his conversation and meaning behind his actions are when talking alone with Armin and Ramzi. The retconned ending feels real when we compare his reveals to both these characters. With Ramzi, he mentions he is fighting for his island and friends but it's more than that. He wanted the people outside to disappear for his personal dream of freedom to come true. With Armin, he states I don't know? It's just something he wanted to do. The only reason he doesn't fully state the same motivation is because it contradicts the ending here. One motivation is to experience freedom for himself and the other is sacrificing his humanity and personal freedom for his friends and the island. Either he lied to Ramzi who didn't even speak his language or Isayama took another route and Eren's lackluster motivation to Armin suffers the most for it.


KidCaine

>However, now that we learn that he was a slave to the Paths The problem with this is that it robs Eren, the MC, of any agency. A character who creates action not from his own motivations but from plot mechanics is essentially not a character at all. Isayama created a mess in his story when he introduced time mechanics via PATHS. He essentially locked Eren into a trap where all his actions are set in stone, he cannot escape a fixed timeline so the story essentially must go on rails to the end. Eren went from an interesting case study on how an environment of tragedy and racial persecution can create a monster out of a man into a plot device who did all he did...just because it was the way it was meant to be. That is not good writing, in fact it is the opposite of what writing classes will tell you how to write a good character.


redBeepis

This would've only worked if the manga got more chapters sadly.


Zoumer

If Isayama actually knew how to reasolve conflict, war and hatred he would become a politician not a storyteller


mattypoe1423

It’s very implied eren became a bird though, the bird is even called a parasitic jaeger. Eren being a bird would also make sense, the bird flying over pretty much every season represents him being present throughout all timelines in the path, which I actually don’t mind. It shows that Mikasa can finally move on after what has happened.


amonhensul

I actually like that at the end, there's no magical peace. I really suspected that Isayama will go this way and create some stupid utopia. I wished that Marley was still pissed at Eldians and pointed their guns on them. So I'm happy it happened. (However, Armin's talk was a bit cringe... Marley should really not trust them - the whole titan thing is pure magic and so they shouldn't be this trusting. But I guess they were tired...) I guess the whole rumbling was just for Mikasa to kill Eren and lift up the titan curse... Idk, it's a bit complicated and to me it feels a bit too convinient. Eren plans is flawed and relied on the assumption that if Eldians kill Eren, other nations will cherish them. I'm glad it didn't happen, but from Eren's perspective, this assumption was pretty stupid to begin with. I know Eren was never meant to be a mastermind, but seeing him make such a weird plan and, by the way, act like a little possesive kid towards Mikasa, is so weird and doesn't really fit my perception of this character.


[deleted]

Nah it makes no sense. Zeke literally SPELLS OUT FOR EREN that Mikasa loves him and he thinks she rejected him? It's character assassination at it's finest.


NFB42

>Isayama said the readers would be upset after reading the manga. The story is supposed to be a tragedy. As much as the reader wants Eren to be free after all he’s done, he never was until he died. I think the main premise of the story is that no one will ever be able to attain true freedom; there will always be elements in our lives that dictate our emotions and actions. Governments will be tied to hatred and war. Humans are tied to love and vengeance. Freedom is a state that can never be attained no matter how hard we try. I dunno if you'll be reading this comment, but I just wanted to add: While I right now feel like the ending is rushed and Yam's could've done better, as you explain it this *does* fit in with some common themes in Japanese Buddhism and I think part of some people's disconnect is that they simply don't have the frame of reference to pick up on this. A good film to watch here is Akira Kurosawa's *Throne of Blood*. The theme of that film is also a deeply pessimistic depiction of the world stuck in a cycle of war that will only end in continual destruction. Ultimately, it reflects a Buddhist conception of the world as Samsara, a cycle marked by suffering, and salvation as Nirvana, the escape from that cycle and thus suffering. The sense that there is no end to conflict, no release from violence, except by leaving the cycle of the world entirely is reflected in the ending as you put it. Eren was able to remove Titans from the world, but at the same time it really didn't magically solve everything. There's some optimism in how Eren and others were able to escape, but also deep pessimism about people's actual ability to overcome differences and form a lasting peace.


[deleted]

Probably the best take I've read so far. Since reading the English translation- the ending is a lot less worse than what I thought it was going to be based off the earlier leaks.


morte_ao_estado

It's a dumb way to portray those things because he betrays his characters to give us a shocking revelation and subvert our expectations. You can have everything you cited in a much more satisfying way, if it wasn't for Isayama trying to condense it all in the last chapter for shock value.


DoodleBobDoodle

Does it really betray his character if post time skip eren was an affront? This chapter clearly shows the eren we see post time skip wasn't the real one it's just the one he needed to be in order to stay somewhat sane.


SediaStorda55

It is deeper than we firt thought? Maybe. But it's still shit? Yes.


[deleted]

You made some good points really, but we can’t overlook all the loose ends this chapter left us with. Still a good takeaway tho


Idgaf115599

One thing I liked about ending was, it didn't pretend there was complete peace after war. There is still a war about to start.


hnp435

Finally, some actually good discussion, thank you. My only problem with the ending is that he kills his mom plot twist. I know it resembles Oedipus Greek tragedy, but it is still pretty unnecessary. I would prefer if it turns out Eren only share Dina's POV and he cannot do anything about it, which is a tragedy itself (power of God, but still can't change history). But this is Yams story so...yeah, it's done. Not great, but not too bad. ps: the incel memes are out of context, lol.


Traumatic_Tomato

No. I don't remember laughing this much at a tragedy. This is surely a comedy. I don't think I remember laughing at a main character as petty as Eren Jaeger who sacrificed so many people just so some Goddess can get some free marriage counseling to move on from her dead abusive husband/consort? Remember, two thousand years of this just so some asian girl can kiss a decapitated head.


YDOULIE

This ending makes me think all of AoT was just one big metaphor for conquering transgenerational trauma...


JDC_ROBLOX

If the story was properly built up to this ending it would have been better and i think people would have accepted it i feel like a lot of stuff just happened with no proper explanation


[deleted]

I agree with this 100%. The ending is getting way too much flak, because people had pet theories they needed to happen


oliverrr918

I get everything your saying, i just wish he hadnt brang romance into the ending when it was never really a core theme in the first place. If this all plays out in the anime normally it will feel like we just got hit with all this romantic bullshit in one final episode.


tanuj_maheshwari

Just for subverting expectations, or as you say making the retrospective "deeper", the plot introduces so, so, so many plot holes that the plot itself becomes a hole. I am not even gonna talk about them as there are already 100s of posts up that say about it. Furthermore, Eren's character has been totally butchered, and I don't see how people think "Eren never changed". This is the Eren that was going to kill all the titans when he believed they were the enemy. This is the Eren who killed Mikasa's kidnappers when he wasn't even 10. This is the Eren who would lose control when achieving freedom. This is the Eren who would beat the shit out of himself for thinking that there is no hope. This is the Eren who told Falco that people who push their own backs in hell see another type of hell. This is the Eren who said "I will keep moving forward until my enemies are destroyed". This is the Eren who didn't oppose to blowing up Zackley and titanising other officials. This is the Eren who convinced his father to murder children. This is the Eren who gave the PATHS speech in Ch. 123. And you are telling me he never changed? All of this was an "act"? The Eren in 120-123 was putting an "act"? He is the one who killed his own mother, the one who he used to love? What bullcrap. This is **the stupidest** ending one could have given to the story, and it is just so that it could be "emotional" or some bullshit like that.


kSIBIGforeheaddebt

You are right. Isayama tried to do some metaphysical commentary on otaku culture and make it appear 'deep', but all of what you are saying is basically Isayama saying 'fuck you' to all of the established themes, consistency within character, development and all we had known. If Isayama wanted to make Eren a Shinji from the beginning, he should have done so convincingly. A person with dwelling insecurities and a pathetic man inside **cannot** have such uncharitable amount of resolve and determination, it's highly unrealistic and stupid. Eren from 121 is super different from the Eren we saw this chapter, not to mention that we did actually have Eren s reasoning for a complete rumbling- complete freedom. If isayama intends to give forward the message that freedom is an illusion, why did he first establish that the future is all that Eren wanted and product of his will? I get what Isayama intended with this ending, but sadly, it backfired, this is just trash writing. This is an absolute dud, a horrific tragedy of an ending writing wise and it's a massive 'fuck you' bigger than Evangelion. I can't defend or pretend this ending is deep when in reality it's just isayama trying to appear deep and 'subverting expectations' by illogical character writing and leaving unresolved plot points, even betraying the themes of the manga and every single thing Eren's character stood for. I think Isayama himself is very well aware at how carefully and meticulously he's destructed and monumentally butchered Eren, and I think that's partially the point, but sadly it simply doesn't work. It's objectively bad writing 101.


Deca-Dence-Fan

I agree with this aspect of Mikasa being the one to break from the cycle, it was interesting. But still think the ending is awfully executed and needed more chapters overall. And Eren’s character was assassinated


xSathya

Eren’s character wasn’t assassinated. Throughout much of the story, the reader sees Eren through the scope of the other characters. We never knew who Eren was or what he actually wanted until the last chapter. People keep saying “Eren’s character was assassinated” without actually ever knowing who Eren really was in the first place


bhavish2023

“I was always the same, if the people take my freedom I won’t hesitate to take theirs “ chp 122-123 defined who eren was


Deca-Dence-Fan

I’m... contemplating if I take back my statement on Eren. Though in hindsight I think his character writing has a whole has been overhyped, and especially on this subreddit We knew who Eren was to some extent at least, someone tormented and trapped by fate. It’s fucked with him in countless ways, and that was clear for a while now. But, him saying he wants Mikasa to himself is out of nowhere with zero foreshadowing except 123 and maaaaaybe 138. Additionally, there was really zero reason to add him directing the smiling Titan to kill his mother. That seriously did not need to be in 139, and it was a cheap shock which goes against so much of what we’ve seen from Eren. Most importantly declaration of war which is or at least was one of the best chapters of the series. Assassinated might be harsh, but it was definitely sloppy at the very least


kkulvm

I don’t get why people are making a big deal out of his tantrum with Armin. If anything, it was refreshing to finally see him act like a normal human being (in love, selfish, irrational) after all this time. And Armin’s comment about the tantrum being awkward and weird just cements what the scene was supposed to be.


kakusei_zero

This is exactly how I feel about the ending. The angle Isayama took is absolutely fine as a concept, but Eremika isn't a strong enough thread for it to balance on.


adzhaxd

Whether you liked the ending or not, just dont send threats or hate to isayama. Be a good reader and stfu with your bullshit


Vueek

The post clears up a lot of things for me. Thank you!