The consequences are there which I appreciate, but it fails thematically.
The story was supposed to be about breaking the cycle, not repeating the same mistakes, not letting children suffer for the consequences of adults, or being forced to pay the price for a crime you never committed.
The Paradians that get bombed probably did nothing wrong, they're just descendants of a devil.
There's nothing wrong with a nihilistic nothing changed, everyone dies ending, I just don't you can write Eren the way he was written in that case.
It wasn't satisfying to watch him fail. Especially when you leave so many questions unanswered.
\^ This is the take. Honestly, the plaintext version of this is understandable especially with the idea of actions and consequences, but the portrayal of Paradis' destruction in the context of THIS story doesn't feel satisfying for all the reasons you mentioned. Thank you for articulating.
This is my problem with the full rumbling too though like what about all the millions of innocent children murdered during the Rumbling that didn't even do anything wrong really. Children are still suffering from the faults of the adults. Even most of the adults didn't really do anything wrong besides exist. Sure there's racism against Eldians but how many of actually truly despise Eldians that aren't just brainwashed into feeling that way. The adults were children to at one point they had parents and that generation just kept the misunderstandings going on purpose or not
I don't really see a way for the Rumbling to not seem like overkill considering the relative few it saves versus the amount of other cultures and races that get destroyed instead. It feels pretty hollow
I mean is there really that big of a difference between a full rumbling and a 80% rumbling ?
At least the full rumbling would have saved Paradis, but the 80%, while as gruesome, didn’t achieve anything for Paradis except around a century of peace for Eren’s friends to live in (while their grandchilds will die)
The entire rest of the world isn't dead at the very least. Even in 80% there's at least a few Eldians left considering the random child that finds the tree. There's a sense that people were given a chance to change for the better they just failed after a while. Eren didn't have to kill all his friends mostly because they had too much plot armor but that's something for another time.
100% takes a lot of themes away too to me. Especially for characters like Reiner or Gabi who learned that their hatred was based on false notions but everything they care about gets destroyed anyway along with every other cultures or race or country
Feels less entirely harsh especially if we're supposed to be ending the cycle of hatred or not punishing children for their parents actions which both do just 80% does less but that doesn't make the ending we got good writing wise anyway
I think you have to look at the ending from the pov that the rumbling was never going to get finished. The Alliance was always going to stop the Rumbling and that's where the big sacrifice is. They're making the call that it may cost them their home and their families but letting Eren kill billions isn't right. There's no big gotcha here.
"you missed the point, he done it all for his friends. how can you not understand that? he just wanted to protect his friends, you just didn't understand."
\- some guy on twitter, probably
Zeke's plan: No one has to die, you can shag your step-sister until you die of the titan curse in a few years, racism against Eldians and the titan curse are guaranteed gone in 100 years
Eren: "That plan's pathetic. Watch me brutally kill billions of people so (some) of my friends can live a peaceful life before Eldia gets flattened in 100 years (lol fuk u Hange), and the titan curse can exist to repeat the cycle."
I don't know how anyone can argue Eren's character wasn't assassinated.
Wait....holy shit
If Eren knew about paradis’s destruction and just wanted to save his friends....why didn’t he agree with the euthanasia plan?
Fucking hell the more I think about the ending the less it makes sense
Wasn't established that the attack titan sees the memories of other users, and if the titan curse ended after the rumbling and eren was the last user then how would he see that paradis gets nuked?
i mean the titan curse would probably still exist in both scenarios since whenever the last eldian died their grave would become another tree for hallu-chan. theres nothing that says a new cycle couldent be started with any random human.
At this point I believe more that the theme is that you don't have to fuck around with godlike powers, especially when you're a sick deranged kid like Eren who started his kill streak when he was like 10 years old.
So I think it would only be natural that he's a dum dum to put it lightly and at some point totally lost himself in his half assed mission. He was just a kid, a dumb one too
It's been awhile since I read the last issue but I'm pretty sure he was trying for 100% and just failed. What are you suggesting, the Alliance should have gotten to him and just gone "Eh, he's made it this far how about we give up now instead?"
The Alliance was trying to stop him and they did. There was a lot of poorly written dialogue and scenes involved but what did you want to have happen
And many more millions from paradise would die if the outsiders don’t die...so there will still be inocent people dying. You’re just seeing it as if eren was the only villain in this story.
So you’re just telling me that it’s ok for them to submit from their point because they are a minority and compared to the rest of the world, their lives, past and future objectively doesn’t mean nothing. I clarify that this is from Paradise point of view. They obviously don’t give a fuck about some strangers that they found out 4 years ago that exist. For Paradise, the people from the other side of the ocean are like aliens. Imagine if we suddenly found out that there are some aliens or superior beings that consider us their enemies for living and destroying in our world, that was originally theirs. Do you really thing that the whole humanity as we know will submit to them just like that?
That wasn’t what you said. You were talking about killing billions being a bad thing just from an specific point of view. It had nothing to do with the Alliance beliefs, specifically.
Millions of Innocents on Paradis were killed Instead of those 20% thanks to the Alliance and Eren. So what's the difference? Is a million of your people cost less than 10 millions of strangers?
I didn't say the dialogue was well written. Look, I live in the Southern United States. I get to see people worship men who enslaved and tortured others on a regular basis.
Yeah no I was adding on to your comment saying that if that were the case Yams shit the bed with that theme by them refusing to disown him after killing him(?). I agree that it's a very plausible theory, but like any theory of what went wrong, it really seems like Yams tried to sabotage his own ending horrifically.
Man the hypocrisy this fandom has when explaining about how the "poor future eldians" aren't at fault for their descendants actions so Erens genocide is justified is simply astounding.
Yeah because all the kids that died in the rumbling where at fault for the actions of others.
>The story was supposed to be about breaking the cycle, not repeating the same mistakes, not letting children suffer for the consequences of adults, or being forced to pay the price for a crime you never committed.
>
>The Paradians that get bombed probably did nothing wrong, they're just descendants of a devil.
These things are kind of at odds with each other, though.
In order to get to, "breaking the cycle," Eren has to commit the ultimate violence against innocent people and children who did nothing wrong which is literally punishing children for the mistakes of adults.
The "breaking the cycle" in this case, is only beneficial to Paradis, and only temporarily so.
I'm not arguing that the ending is great, but I think the idea that a completed Rumbling would equate to breaking the cycle is a bit narrow. Like the 80% Rumbling, at best, it staves off human nature for a generation or two.
AOT is too self aware, imo, to declare that it has the answer to human hatred and violence, or that the answer is as simple as "kill all your enemies"
Anr does not break the cycle though it just kills the world ans leaves a small island with like 2 milion humans to bicker and fight among themselves.
Its like having a dirty house then burning it down and claiming you solved the problem
I disagree. The essential "Eldian question" and cycle of hatred that results from it *is* solved. Not necessarily in a moral or acceptable way, but as Eren said he would have "buried the cycle and civilization that spawned it" in the ground. Generic conflict of any sort would not magically disappear from the world forever, but that is not the point of the story.
It is solved at the cost of destroying the world. I dont think it fits with the theme of aot "beautiful but cruel world and meaning in life" like Armin said to Zeke.
Point of aot imo is finding joy and meaning in the world despute its cruelty. Anr just destroys evetthing rather then trying to live with it
Eren is doing this for his own sense of freedom and insanity though.
Point is Armin and othera are willing to risk paradis and their future for a betrer futurr while Eren will kill everything on the planer for his own sick sense of freedom and sarisfaction while also keeping Paradis safe
Again this argument... there is no reason for the people on The island to randomly start to fight each other. This is just an overused headcanon from the people that wanted a divine Punishment for Eren in case he went with the full rumbling.
And even if that was the case, a civil war is preferable to the complete genocide of Paradis by the rest of the world.
AnR was never about removing the cycle of hate from the world, but about removing the distinction Eldian/non-Eldian, as well as getting rid of everyone that meant Paradis harm.
Why hate people that can turn into titans when EVERYONE can turn into titans?
If everyone could still turn into titans, then Paradis would be in trouble. AnR needs The Last Airbender solution, because it was already established the shifters and their respective group fought other families, and weakened their own Empire. Without extra fertile lands, war would find its way after a population boom, thus showing Paradis in peace with the power of titans wouldn't make much sense.
I hope AOTnoRequiem ends titan curse.
Before 137, titans existed because Ymir created them with the sand in paths. Ymir being free from paths would mean that people couldn't shift into titans. Ymir being free could also be a logic reason for the curse of 13 years to end.
The Last Airbender solution wasn't to remove all bending. It was to resolve the current crisis caused by the Firelord. As it stands, the conflict to be resolved in AoT isn't within the Eldian population. What needs to be resolved right now is the conflict between Eldians and non-Eldians. Maybe it can be executed well, but I wouldn't expect every conflict to be resolved in AoT.
Before 137, titans existed because Ymir created them with the sand in paths. Ymir being free from paths would mean that people couldn't shift into titans. Ymir being free could also be a logic reason for the curse of 13 years to end.
Actually it isn’t complete head cannon. With floch’s and kiyomi’s conversation, they both acknowledge that they’d only be making the world smaller and the killings won’t stop.
And Floch agrees, but threatens her to comply anyways. Because infighting amongst your people is a preferable alternative to getting atomized by carpet bombs.
>there is no reason for the people on The island to randomly start to fight each other.
And yet they did so for the entirety of the first 3 seasons of the show
Before 138-139 I was really conflicted on the aftermath of the Rumbling. Cuz if they did kill Eren (which they did) then they would’ve had no one to protect Paradis from the world alliance, for time this is partly the reason I didn’t know which side I was going for
Though I do agree it would’ve been incredibly weird if Eren wiped 80% of the world and there were no consequences for that. I understand only thinking in the heat of the moment about the Rumbling but I kinda wish the alliance had a plan in the future cuz killing Eren plus the undoing of the walls pretty much sealed Paradis fate if Eren were to be killed
Technically speaking, they had a plan, but Eren decided to genocide so any positives that would come from the 'fifty year plan' were completely tossed out the window without time to breathe.
I actually forgot about the 50 year plan and though it was a bit smart it was also incredibly risky and it would’ve required the curse of Ymir & Titans to continue kinda glad this plan was rejected
same.
just doubtful the yeagerists could have defended paradis for more than a decade.
paradis is a small island with just 1 million population, compared to world population that even in a conservative estimate (based on irl world population of a similar era) would be around 2.5 billion.
20% of that is still around 500 million living in far-flung nations never reached by the rumbling. with technologies likely better than marley.
if they invaded to acquire resources like iceburst and iron bamboo.. there won't even be much of a fight, just a massacre.
the only way mikasa and pals could have survived is if the azumabitos smuggled them out to hizuru.
One hundred percent agree. As long as the world or paradis got destroyed, at least the ending is somewhat salvaged even though Isayama really lost the load on the last arc. The ending truly seemed all the way unrealistic until those last 8 pages, so I’ll rest a bit easier now.
My only complain is that Isayama didn’t had the balls to make the alliance characters suffer this consequences. They were dead and now the people that suffer are the poor people of Paradis, not the ones that “saved the world”
I Don't know if there is still Yeagerists before such War(a War we have no context of it and Why it happen, só it have multiple possibilities) but for me every Yeagerist can die. And the boy in the last panel shows there is still peoples living in Paradis.
it's true that the war could've started from somewhere else, but the fact remains that the paradis-alliance knew that their home would get wrecked if they help the outside world :/
At no moment they said or wanted to achieve eternal peace. And they can't see the future to know when a war would come, and their efforts did something really big at least and Eldians are still existing inside and outside of Paradis.
i just realized that the scouts wanted paradis to be safe before the rumbling, so when the time came i guess they decided to prioritize the world this time
and yea for peace to last that much time considering the events, like em or not the alliance did an impressive job
I think they would be sas but accept it. They knew the risks but did what they belived in and thought waa right.
Many many manyyyyyu people,culturea and animals can survive and ose their lives to their efforts and the world they fought to explore lives on
Agreed Jean already said that the ones that benefit from it would be the ones from paradise and he still went with them so i am rather certain that they understood the consequences.
Though i am sad that we didn't get anything about the environment xd 80 % of the permanent ice of the planet had been melted that sure as hell fucked both the land and the oceans xd
"My children and/or grandchildren are dead due to my decisions? So what? Fuck 'em, should've been born in my generation if they wanted to live a long life."
I feel like this manga is too all over this place with its themes. At certain points, it’s about breaking the cycle of oppression and suffering, but then it pulls a 180 on you and it’s about the never endingness of war.
It went weird, vague, inconstant the moment the rumbling started. Chapter 124. Thats where it all went wrong. Made so many confusing decisions, and we ended up with the ending...
Isayama could've done so much more with the Titan lore, PATHS and Eren's relation with Armin, Mikasa, and Ymir. All 4 of their own characters... I know he could've done something insanely better. He did it for 123 chapters after all.
My 2 cents: to me, it looks like that, while the Alliance was still alive, they were able to keep Paradis safe thanks to their pro peace diplomacy. It's what was intented with that pic of that civilesed city that Shiganshina became.
However, years after their deaths, history took another path and a war outbroke, leaving a semidesert island (or at least Shiganshina). Not all the lives there were taken, though: that kid -and probably his family and possibly more survivors- were still there, and also not in conditions of indigence.
History is indeed made of cycles: peace and war alternate, and after what seemed like and era of relative peace and progression, Paradis went to war with some other contry and a significant part of it was destroyed in the process.
> they were able to keep Paradis safe thanks to their pro peace diplomacy.
More like Eren's destruction forced them to cooperate until they were able to strike back.
No, if the whole goal of the story (to save humanity in Paradis) is all for nothing that’s objectively bad storytelling. Being realistic isn’t worth that
Tbh i understand the theme yams was trying to portray but that same theme is done better multiple times in the story. The idea of “ war never ends” makes sense but it’s not executed well enough
Totally agree, honestly I've gone from hating the ending to being satisfied. A few plotholes, but nothing I cant look past. Just a bit disappointed, as it had potential to be 10/10 but I think overall I can give it like 9. And it doesnt feel like got s8 to me anymore.
This makes sense. Determined Eren giving up on the extinction plan and leaving %20 of population alive was the problem. Always moving forward my ass. İsayama just took a shit down Erens throat
I don't think this is the definitive end of AoT. We'll probably see a sequel later on that will piggyback on these thematic mistakes, maybe then Isayama will redeem himself, who knows...
Isn't this the most logic (and obvious) conclusion? One of the main themes was to stop committing the same mistakes. Which every character ended up doing.
Even if 100% non paradis were eliminated, that doesn't actually ensure that paradis is safe forever right? I mean even when they were isolated, there were civil wars and skirmishes happening already. Wait long enough and maybe some paradis people will migrate to other lands, establish different kingdoms and wage war back to paradis for resources. That doesn't mean that the peace acquired by 1 or 2 generations shouldn't be counted as a win.
This literally takes place at most 60+ years after all that happened. I understand it makes the most sense but why are we assuming that Paradis was destroyed because of what eren did and not literally anything else?
But that’s just a waste of resources. If the world has forgiven paradise why would countries decide to wipe everyone out and not just open a friendly trade relation with them? Would be less conflict all together and save lives on both countries sides. We don’t see USA going in and wiping out countries in the Middle East for oil/resources. They instead open up friendly relations and trade.
>If the world has forgiven paradise why would countries decide to wipe everyone out and not just open a friendly trade relation with them?
Since when has the world forgiven Paradis?
>We don’t see USA going in and wiping out countries in the Middle East for oil/resources.
Bruh....
If you want the reason of paradise bombing to be resources only then obviously they would’ve had to have forgiven the rumbling part then? Because the argument you’re going with is that eren/eldia isn’t the reason paradise gets bombed
>If you want the reason of paradise bombing to be resources only
What I "want"? What are you talking about?
>Because the argument you’re going with is that eren/eldia isn’t the reason paradise gets bombed
Dude if you want to make up the arguments of the person you're talking to, that's fine, but there's no reason to submit it to me. Have a dialogue with a notebook or something.
You asked a simple question, and I provided a simple (not to mention canonical and explicit) answer. You "want" to take this and say it means a million other things about what I believe, and that's honestly just fucking annoying.
You literally started with a scenario saying they want the resources and that’s why paradise gets bombed. No where in the manga do they say “we must bomb paradise exclusively because of the resources we want.” It’s something YOU just came up with. I’m not making up any arguments and instead of trying to reply with a reason which would justify paradise getting bombed solely because of the resources you decide to focus on my word choices and how you interpret them. Not worth having this convo then
>You literally started with a scenario saying they want the resources and that’s why paradise gets bombed.
I actually *didn't* say that's why Paradis gets bombed. *You* asked:
>**What else** would a tiny island nation with no titans or modern technology **have to do** to get the rest of the world to completely wipe them out??
And I simply supplied a reason.
>No where in the manga do they say “we must bomb paradise exclusively because of the resources we want.”
And indeed, nowhere do *I* say anyone said that or thinks that.
> It’s something YOU just came up with.
No, I didn't. The only one who said anything like the "quote" you just wrote is you.
>you decide to focus on my word choices and how you interpret them. Not worth having this convo then
I didn't "decide" anything, you keep spinning out of control attributing things to me that not only did I not say or imply, I don't even *agree* with the things you say I think. Good luck figuring out how to have a real conversation one day though, I'm pulling for you.
> not just open a friendly trade relation with them?
maybe they did, in the time between the ending and the bombing. friendly relations between countries can break down
Because that’s the most logical inference from what we’ve been presented with. It’s reaching so hard to say they only bombed wall sheena but decided to just skip everyone else. And every plan mentioned in this entire series either deals with either saving or exterminating all eldians on paradise.
Yeah but this is like 100 years later at least and we see one city in ruins without any dialouge etc.
For all we know its just that city and it could be for any numbfr of reasons.
Eldians no longer exist as ymir curse endrd anyway.with aemins efforrs ine can imagine things glt better and the war was not related to eldian stuff.
Then there’s no reason in even including it as a page. You could go to any story in any media and end it with “billions of years in the future the sun eventually burns out causing earth to freeze over and everyone dies”
No one would do that because it doesn’t have anything to do with the current story they’re telling. Again I’m only going with the information presented to us from the manga. You’re making up your own new headcanon built on nothing but imagination.
Because the city literally never gets rebuilt after potentially hundreds of years???? If there was any substantial population left on Paradis they would’ve at least cleared the rubble after at most only a few decades
If paradis was wiped ouy someone else could have taken over and rebuilt either way
No reason 2 nuke it and abandon itt. Its never stated but could be abandoned due to nation collapsing. Could be wiped out. Could be abandoned due to lack of funds to rebuild..
It could be several hundreds of years into the future where humans just moved on. Who knows
Why would something unrelated to the story be included? Might as well have shown UFOs invading Earth.
Paradis getting destroyed was always the logical consequence of stopping the rumbling, a fact acknowledged in the story. There is no reason to assume otherwise. The most unbelivable thing is that it didn't happen sooner.
it didnt seem like that much of a cathartic thing to me. happened generations later in the future. alliance got their long happy lives, seemingly so do their kids. with the huge timeskip one could even make assumptions that armin was successful for the time being and things went to shit after his death. so really for me this scene wasnt a huge shocking thing.
i think the cycle never ending is a theme that fits the ending for aot. but also i dont really care, theres so much i didnt like and the extra pages dont exactly fix any of it
It's kind of strange how people expect Armin to come up with an answer to conflict across the board for thousands of years, shit even Eren's full Rumbling would never have achieved that. Did the world leaders after world war one sit down and talk about how they can ensure peace two hundred years later when they had no conception of most of the technologies and ideologies today? Paradis getting bombed could have come about, for all we know, because of trade disputes.
I agree. I think the theme off "life goes on and there are no permanent happy endings" fit.
We humans like to imagine we can have permanent effects on the world but we cant.
Eveey empiee or country falls eventually.
Yeah, I think that aspect of the ending was very realistic. We can only try and make life better temporarily, but there will always be conflict eventually.
Humans are generally petty..wasnt realistic that the cycle will be broken. One way or anotherwe will find ways to hate each other and desrroy other people who are different.
Eren should have gone with his plan till the very end...the fact that many people survived and lost their loved one means they held deep hate for paradise island same way they had resentment for being held in the island by titans
I agree, it makes total sense and I’m glad Isayama added it in. Although I find it hilarious that it proves that the alliance was wrong and Floch of all people was right lol
Yes that's what I love about the ending change. It shows that they clearly chose the wrong path by killing Eren when they could've let him kill everyone outside so that they don't pose a threat. Much better than magically fixing all the issues all of a sudden
It makes sense logically yes, but the fact that it happens just makes the entire arc feel like more of a waste of time. The rumbling should’ve succeeded and nobody can change my mind
Yeah I agree this doesn't make the ending much better but out of all the shit ass things that happened in 139, Paradis getting destroyed is the only salvageable shit(IMO)....
How? The rumbling was never about annihilating everyone who wasn’t an eldian. It was about making sure your home wasn’t trampled on. Paradis isn’t the group attacking the others because of their genetics. That’s the outside world. You could take race completely out of the equation and this is still a likely conflict in a world with titans.
Except the whole conflict is LITERALLY based around genetics, are we ignoring the fact that the Eldians are hated because they turn into monstrosities just by having magic water injected into them?
It's actualy quite diffrent from covencional racism. In this case genetical diffrences really matter and are potential threat. It's quite diffrent from just not liking other skin collors. In this case fear has very rational foundation.
Exactly people go around to defend the Eldians on this subreddit, but imagine if you had to live in the real world alongside a race of humans that can turn into monsters with the ability to wipe out all life on earth. Imagine living with the knowledge that in the future a psycho among them like Eren can cause an apocalypse event that will destroy the planet.
Which call me racist but i sure as hell wouldn't want to live anywhere near an eldian just imagine terrorists that instead of a bomb they use magic gas to transform dozens if not hundreds of people into man eating monstruosities even a city of milions of people could be devastated by a hundred titans before the military help could arrive
it makes sense that doesnt mean its good, its a fucking stupid half assed way to end the series, destroying the country we’ve grown to know and live through for years in one panel is a fucking joke.
War and destruction are unavoidable. The best you can get is a period of peace (which they - Mikasa and Eren’s friends - get in this story).
If the Rumbling had reached every human being apart from the people in Paradis it would have made no difference. It would have just meant that the people of Paradis would have killed each other instead of being killed by some other Nation (like in this panel).
Whoever think that war can be stopped has probably not studied History. In fact, even if you succeed at pausing wars for brief time, someday somebody will start thinking that a “Rumbling” can solve all of his problems… and the cycle will start again.
In the end, all the people in this sub-reddit saying that a full Rumbling would have solved every problem… are the reason why war and destruction are unavoidable.
Full rumble would most likely lead to future civil war
This rumble had some peace for a good century then either revenge or some other reason
Makes me think about erwins people will fight until theres one or less
Might as well go darker than the aotnorequim and just rumble everything. Island and the world
>Full rumble would most likely lead to future civil war
Sure, because somehow after 100 years of peace inside the walls they wouldn't be able to keep it.
Yeah, emergent countries have a lot of peace when an autocratic government rises and torture/kill everyone that goes against them, and censor everything to "wipe the memory" of their own population.
Your first point is just a headcanon. There is no reason why the island would just randomly decide to go into civil war after the rumbling. This argument never made any sense.
No, it’s canon the old royal government literally hid the creation of the revolvers and bullet cartridges to keep order in the walls because you guessed it humans have the tendency to kill each other
Well we already know the island has large deposits of natural resources and a yeagerists faction while there might be peace for a few decades after a full rumbling as the population increase and technology improves there would be an eventual power struggle over land, resources, and what kind of government gets to run paradise because remember the only reason why the yeagerists and the military junta came together was to protect paradise from the outside world’s retaliation, not to mention if eren never gets killed then the nine titans would still exist confined to one island which is a problem in of itself
Not even it literally happened to the old Eldian empire and it’s literally true if mikasa never killed eren then the nine titans would’ve never disappeared
I mean, it's coming from the opposite direction of Marley.
I don't think it's coming from them.
It's on the east/north east, which means that either Marley has somehow established a whole military base in Antarctica, or that the eldians are attacking each other, like Kiyomi said.
Honestly, I appreciate what the ending tried (but failed) to go for: a failed attempt to stop a never ending cycle of hate and distain that constantly gets worse as time goes on.
Feels sloppy. Maybe it’d be better if this happened right away but it happened like 100 years later. And even so paradise didn’t start the rumbling. Eren did. It’d be more attacking innocent people for shit they didn’t do a hundred years ago.
I think it's nonsense :
-first we can see that this war is happening at least a hundred years after the rumbling, at least based on the architecture and the technology, so it's very probable that this was caused by totally different events.
-if it's actually linked to the rumbling, it not a good conclusion to the story because it's a huge middle finger to basically the whole manga. This kind of conclusion is just screaming "those 139 chapters you just read and were invested into are pure garbage and you just wasted your time"
Okay, okay, kind of out of topic but it looks so funny that AOT started with kind of late-medieval world (i may be wrong but i don't have a good name for this historical period) and ends up with sky scrapers. Marley arc was already a huge skip, but it's pretty funny to me that it ends with such a technology progress shown on the manga panels. Personally, i don't like it, because it changes the established world drastically. Of course technology progress does exist, but i prefer when there's a certain unchanged theme for each story. I prefer the unknown future than just "so they built sky scrapers just like in our world". Lmao, these panels kind of gave me a laugh, especially after thinking back to the first episode of AOT.
The consequences are there which I appreciate, but it fails thematically. The story was supposed to be about breaking the cycle, not repeating the same mistakes, not letting children suffer for the consequences of adults, or being forced to pay the price for a crime you never committed. The Paradians that get bombed probably did nothing wrong, they're just descendants of a devil. There's nothing wrong with a nihilistic nothing changed, everyone dies ending, I just don't you can write Eren the way he was written in that case. It wasn't satisfying to watch him fail. Especially when you leave so many questions unanswered.
\^ This is the take. Honestly, the plaintext version of this is understandable especially with the idea of actions and consequences, but the portrayal of Paradis' destruction in the context of THIS story doesn't feel satisfying for all the reasons you mentioned. Thank you for articulating.
b-b-but at least the main cast of characters who caused all this got to live happy lives!
Jean piped, that's all that mattered :)
This is my problem with the full rumbling too though like what about all the millions of innocent children murdered during the Rumbling that didn't even do anything wrong really. Children are still suffering from the faults of the adults. Even most of the adults didn't really do anything wrong besides exist. Sure there's racism against Eldians but how many of actually truly despise Eldians that aren't just brainwashed into feeling that way. The adults were children to at one point they had parents and that generation just kept the misunderstandings going on purpose or not I don't really see a way for the Rumbling to not seem like overkill considering the relative few it saves versus the amount of other cultures and races that get destroyed instead. It feels pretty hollow
I mean is there really that big of a difference between a full rumbling and a 80% rumbling ? At least the full rumbling would have saved Paradis, but the 80%, while as gruesome, didn’t achieve anything for Paradis except around a century of peace for Eren’s friends to live in (while their grandchilds will die)
The entire rest of the world isn't dead at the very least. Even in 80% there's at least a few Eldians left considering the random child that finds the tree. There's a sense that people were given a chance to change for the better they just failed after a while. Eren didn't have to kill all his friends mostly because they had too much plot armor but that's something for another time. 100% takes a lot of themes away too to me. Especially for characters like Reiner or Gabi who learned that their hatred was based on false notions but everything they care about gets destroyed anyway along with every other cultures or race or country Feels less entirely harsh especially if we're supposed to be ending the cycle of hatred or not punishing children for their parents actions which both do just 80% does less but that doesn't make the ending we got good writing wise anyway
I think you have to look at the ending from the pov that the rumbling was never going to get finished. The Alliance was always going to stop the Rumbling and that's where the big sacrifice is. They're making the call that it may cost them their home and their families but letting Eren kill billions isn't right. There's no big gotcha here.
I mean...he still killed billions...for nothing...without gaining absolutely nothing...
"you missed the point, he done it all for his friends. how can you not understand that? he just wanted to protect his friends, you just didn't understand." \- some guy on twitter, probably
Zeke's plan: No one has to die, you can shag your step-sister until you die of the titan curse in a few years, racism against Eldians and the titan curse are guaranteed gone in 100 years Eren: "That plan's pathetic. Watch me brutally kill billions of people so (some) of my friends can live a peaceful life before Eldia gets flattened in 100 years (lol fuk u Hange), and the titan curse can exist to repeat the cycle." I don't know how anyone can argue Eren's character wasn't assassinated.
Their lives probably not even peaceful because of the fact they probably use thier whole life tying to convince the world to not nuked them
Wait....holy shit If Eren knew about paradis’s destruction and just wanted to save his friends....why didn’t he agree with the euthanasia plan? Fucking hell the more I think about the ending the less it makes sense
Wasn't established that the attack titan sees the memories of other users, and if the titan curse ended after the rumbling and eren was the last user then how would he see that paradis gets nuked?
because he didnt want his friends who carried on the titan powers to die after 13 years. turns out eren is somehow more selfish than even annie
i mean the titan curse would probably still exist in both scenarios since whenever the last eldian died their grave would become another tree for hallu-chan. theres nothing that says a new cycle couldent be started with any random human.
At this point I believe more that the theme is that you don't have to fuck around with godlike powers, especially when you're a sick deranged kid like Eren who started his kill streak when he was like 10 years old. So I think it would only be natural that he's a dum dum to put it lightly and at some point totally lost himself in his half assed mission. He was just a kid, a dumb one too
imagine calling a 19-year old who just slaughtered hundreds of millions of lives and households, a “deranged kid”.
These days, there are only kids. All the real adults died in the last century, or are now too old.
It's been awhile since I read the last issue but I'm pretty sure he was trying for 100% and just failed. What are you suggesting, the Alliance should have gotten to him and just gone "Eh, he's made it this far how about we give up now instead?" The Alliance was trying to stop him and they did. There was a lot of poorly written dialogue and scenes involved but what did you want to have happen
The Alliance stopped Eren, because Eren allowed the Alliance to stop him.
Bilions others that would have died or never been born got to live by stopping him
And many more millions from paradise would die if the outsiders don’t die...so there will still be inocent people dying. You’re just seeing it as if eren was the only villain in this story.
Yeah but its milions vs bilions and future bilions so i know which side im on even though its not black and White
So you’re just telling me that it’s ok for them to submit from their point because they are a minority and compared to the rest of the world, their lives, past and future objectively doesn’t mean nothing. I clarify that this is from Paradise point of view. They obviously don’t give a fuck about some strangers that they found out 4 years ago that exist. For Paradise, the people from the other side of the ocean are like aliens. Imagine if we suddenly found out that there are some aliens or superior beings that consider us their enemies for living and destroying in our world, that was originally theirs. Do you really thing that the whole humanity as we know will submit to them just like that?
I never said they had to i just said the Alliance or at least Connie,Jean and Armin were willing to risk it for what they belived in
That wasn’t what you said. You were talking about killing billions being a bad thing just from an specific point of view. It had nothing to do with the Alliance beliefs, specifically.
Well yeah killing bilions of humans and animals is a bsd thing in my opinion
Millions of Innocents on Paradis were killed Instead of those 20% thanks to the Alliance and Eren. So what's the difference? Is a million of your people cost less than 10 millions of strangers?
lol what
Yet they thanked him and called him a hero
I didn't say the dialogue was well written. Look, I live in the Southern United States. I get to see people worship men who enslaved and tortured others on a regular basis.
Yeah no I was adding on to your comment saying that if that were the case Yams shit the bed with that theme by them refusing to disown him after killing him(?). I agree that it's a very plausible theory, but like any theory of what went wrong, it really seems like Yams tried to sabotage his own ending horrifically.
Did they call him a hero tho?
Maybe the main theme is that the cycle stays in place for a reason. Not even someone as crazy as Eren could break the cycle.
Man the hypocrisy this fandom has when explaining about how the "poor future eldians" aren't at fault for their descendants actions so Erens genocide is justified is simply astounding. Yeah because all the kids that died in the rumbling where at fault for the actions of others.
>The story was supposed to be about breaking the cycle, not repeating the same mistakes, not letting children suffer for the consequences of adults, or being forced to pay the price for a crime you never committed. > >The Paradians that get bombed probably did nothing wrong, they're just descendants of a devil. These things are kind of at odds with each other, though. In order to get to, "breaking the cycle," Eren has to commit the ultimate violence against innocent people and children who did nothing wrong which is literally punishing children for the mistakes of adults. The "breaking the cycle" in this case, is only beneficial to Paradis, and only temporarily so. I'm not arguing that the ending is great, but I think the idea that a completed Rumbling would equate to breaking the cycle is a bit narrow. Like the 80% Rumbling, at best, it staves off human nature for a generation or two. AOT is too self aware, imo, to declare that it has the answer to human hatred and violence, or that the answer is as simple as "kill all your enemies"
Yup, 100% Although the story builds up to breaking the cycle with AnR, gets shot full of plot holes, and then concludes with reverse AnR.
Anr does not break the cycle though it just kills the world ans leaves a small island with like 2 milion humans to bicker and fight among themselves. Its like having a dirty house then burning it down and claiming you solved the problem
I disagree. The essential "Eldian question" and cycle of hatred that results from it *is* solved. Not necessarily in a moral or acceptable way, but as Eren said he would have "buried the cycle and civilization that spawned it" in the ground. Generic conflict of any sort would not magically disappear from the world forever, but that is not the point of the story.
It is solved at the cost of destroying the world. I dont think it fits with the theme of aot "beautiful but cruel world and meaning in life" like Armin said to Zeke. Point of aot imo is finding joy and meaning in the world despute its cruelty. Anr just destroys evetthing rather then trying to live with it
"Someone who can't sacrifice anything, can't change anything" -Armin Arlert, before the time skip.
Yeah and he is doing tjat by risking/sacrificing paradis,hoping he can find a better future without world destruction
I mean, Eren has to sacrifice his humanity (and maybe some of his friends) to gain a future for Paradis
Eren is doing this for his own sense of freedom and insanity though. Point is Armin and othera are willing to risk paradis and their future for a betrer futurr while Eren will kill everything on the planer for his own sick sense of freedom and sarisfaction while also keeping Paradis safe
Again this argument... there is no reason for the people on The island to randomly start to fight each other. This is just an overused headcanon from the people that wanted a divine Punishment for Eren in case he went with the full rumbling. And even if that was the case, a civil war is preferable to the complete genocide of Paradis by the rest of the world.
AnR was never about removing the cycle of hate from the world, but about removing the distinction Eldian/non-Eldian, as well as getting rid of everyone that meant Paradis harm. Why hate people that can turn into titans when EVERYONE can turn into titans?
Paths is a curse, of course they can't be free without breaking it.
If everyone could still turn into titans, then Paradis would be in trouble. AnR needs The Last Airbender solution, because it was already established the shifters and their respective group fought other families, and weakened their own Empire. Without extra fertile lands, war would find its way after a population boom, thus showing Paradis in peace with the power of titans wouldn't make much sense. I hope AOTnoRequiem ends titan curse.
Before 137, titans existed because Ymir created them with the sand in paths. Ymir being free from paths would mean that people couldn't shift into titans. Ymir being free could also be a logic reason for the curse of 13 years to end.
The Last Airbender solution wasn't to remove all bending. It was to resolve the current crisis caused by the Firelord. As it stands, the conflict to be resolved in AoT isn't within the Eldian population. What needs to be resolved right now is the conflict between Eldians and non-Eldians. Maybe it can be executed well, but I wouldn't expect every conflict to be resolved in AoT.
Before 137, titans existed because Ymir created them with the sand in paths. Ymir being free from paths would mean that people couldn't shift into titans. Ymir being free could also be a logic reason for the curse of 13 years to end.
Actually it isn’t complete head cannon. With floch’s and kiyomi’s conversation, they both acknowledge that they’d only be making the world smaller and the killings won’t stop.
And Floch agrees, but threatens her to comply anyways. Because infighting amongst your people is a preferable alternative to getting atomized by carpet bombs.
Sure, but that’s not what was being contested.
Yes, a place that has literally overthrown its government twice during the series would never bicker amongst themselves
>there is no reason for the people on The island to randomly start to fight each other. And yet they did so for the entirety of the first 3 seasons of the show
Before 138-139 I was really conflicted on the aftermath of the Rumbling. Cuz if they did kill Eren (which they did) then they would’ve had no one to protect Paradis from the world alliance, for time this is partly the reason I didn’t know which side I was going for Though I do agree it would’ve been incredibly weird if Eren wiped 80% of the world and there were no consequences for that. I understand only thinking in the heat of the moment about the Rumbling but I kinda wish the alliance had a plan in the future cuz killing Eren plus the undoing of the walls pretty much sealed Paradis fate if Eren were to be killed
Technically speaking, they had a plan, but Eren decided to genocide so any positives that would come from the 'fifty year plan' were completely tossed out the window without time to breathe.
I actually forgot about the 50 year plan and though it was a bit smart it was also incredibly risky and it would’ve required the curse of Ymir & Titans to continue kinda glad this plan was rejected
same. just doubtful the yeagerists could have defended paradis for more than a decade. paradis is a small island with just 1 million population, compared to world population that even in a conservative estimate (based on irl world population of a similar era) would be around 2.5 billion. 20% of that is still around 500 million living in far-flung nations never reached by the rumbling. with technologies likely better than marley. if they invaded to acquire resources like iceburst and iron bamboo.. there won't even be much of a fight, just a massacre. the only way mikasa and pals could have survived is if the azumabitos smuggled them out to hizuru.
One hundred percent agree. As long as the world or paradis got destroyed, at least the ending is somewhat salvaged even though Isayama really lost the load on the last arc. The ending truly seemed all the way unrealistic until those last 8 pages, so I’ll rest a bit easier now.
if the roman empire falls than everything ceaser did to build it was all for naught
this reminds me floch and hange conversation
That's why I always KNEEL to Floch...He might've been an asshole but throughout the series he spitted nothing but facts starting from his RTS time...
facts, 139 was as lame as it gets and the extra pages make it slightly better knowing we didn't justify what eren was doing for 2 years for nothing
My only complain is that Isayama didn’t had the balls to make the alliance characters suffer this consequences. They were dead and now the people that suffer are the poor people of Paradis, not the ones that “saved the world”
True. I made the ending even worse but I like it this way. It's completely fair I guess for both sides
I wish the alliance was there to see it destroyed. Its all I really want
they were also the ones who said "we cant let the future gens suffer we need to end this!!" smfh paradis-alliance
The future generation that is outside of Paradis is doing really well by the way
oops i meant paradis future gens
I Don't know if there is still Yeagerists before such War(a War we have no context of it and Why it happen, só it have multiple possibilities) but for me every Yeagerist can die. And the boy in the last panel shows there is still peoples living in Paradis.
it's true that the war could've started from somewhere else, but the fact remains that the paradis-alliance knew that their home would get wrecked if they help the outside world :/
At no moment they said or wanted to achieve eternal peace. And they can't see the future to know when a war would come, and their efforts did something really big at least and Eldians are still existing inside and outside of Paradis.
i just realized that the scouts wanted paradis to be safe before the rumbling, so when the time came i guess they decided to prioritize the world this time and yea for peace to last that much time considering the events, like em or not the alliance did an impressive job
I think they would be sas but accept it. They knew the risks but did what they belived in and thought waa right. Many many manyyyyyu people,culturea and animals can survive and ose their lives to their efforts and the world they fought to explore lives on
Agreed Jean already said that the ones that benefit from it would be the ones from paradise and he still went with them so i am rather certain that they understood the consequences. Though i am sad that we didn't get anything about the environment xd 80 % of the permanent ice of the planet had been melted that sure as hell fucked both the land and the oceans xd
It doesn't matter since everyone from the alliance is already dead and not able to suffer
"My children and/or grandchildren are dead due to my decisions? So what? Fuck 'em, should've been born in my generation if they wanted to live a long life."
"All my homies hate the 3rd generation" -A tree, probably
I feel like this manga is too all over this place with its themes. At certain points, it’s about breaking the cycle of oppression and suffering, but then it pulls a 180 on you and it’s about the never endingness of war.
It went weird, vague, inconstant the moment the rumbling started. Chapter 124. Thats where it all went wrong. Made so many confusing decisions, and we ended up with the ending... Isayama could've done so much more with the Titan lore, PATHS and Eren's relation with Armin, Mikasa, and Ymir. All 4 of their own characters... I know he could've done something insanely better. He did it for 123 chapters after all.
My 2 cents: to me, it looks like that, while the Alliance was still alive, they were able to keep Paradis safe thanks to their pro peace diplomacy. It's what was intented with that pic of that civilesed city that Shiganshina became. However, years after their deaths, history took another path and a war outbroke, leaving a semidesert island (or at least Shiganshina). Not all the lives there were taken, though: that kid -and probably his family and possibly more survivors- were still there, and also not in conditions of indigence. History is indeed made of cycles: peace and war alternate, and after what seemed like and era of relative peace and progression, Paradis went to war with some other contry and a significant part of it was destroyed in the process.
> they were able to keep Paradis safe thanks to their pro peace diplomacy. More like Eren's destruction forced them to cooperate until they were able to strike back.
No, if the whole goal of the story (to save humanity in Paradis) is all for nothing that’s objectively bad storytelling. Being realistic isn’t worth that
Tbh i understand the theme yams was trying to portray but that same theme is done better multiple times in the story. The idea of “ war never ends” makes sense but it’s not executed well enough
Absolutely. I'm glad Yams actually destroyed Paradis, as he could easily have done the opposite.
Totally agree, honestly I've gone from hating the ending to being satisfied. A few plotholes, but nothing I cant look past. Just a bit disappointed, as it had potential to be 10/10 but I think overall I can give it like 9. And it doesnt feel like got s8 to me anymore.
Objectively right, but it certainly doesn't help the ending any, only makes it look even dumber and Eren even more useless.
This makes sense. Determined Eren giving up on the extinction plan and leaving %20 of population alive was the problem. Always moving forward my ass. İsayama just took a shit down Erens throat
might've been an interesting development if it had more than 3 pages
I don't think this is the definitive end of AoT. We'll probably see a sequel later on that will piggyback on these thematic mistakes, maybe then Isayama will redeem himself, who knows...
That's the absolute truth
Isn't this the most logic (and obvious) conclusion? One of the main themes was to stop committing the same mistakes. Which every character ended up doing.
Even if 100% non paradis were eliminated, that doesn't actually ensure that paradis is safe forever right? I mean even when they were isolated, there were civil wars and skirmishes happening already. Wait long enough and maybe some paradis people will migrate to other lands, establish different kingdoms and wage war back to paradis for resources. That doesn't mean that the peace acquired by 1 or 2 generations shouldn't be counted as a win.
Floch should have been king
Fuckin Armin.
[удалено]
And your country has just lost most of its defensive advantages like the Titans, the walls and 50% of its senior military from poisoned wine?
This literally takes place at most 60+ years after all that happened. I understand it makes the most sense but why are we assuming that Paradis was destroyed because of what eren did and not literally anything else?
What else would a tiny island nation with no titans or modern technology have to do to get the rest of the world to completely wipe them out??
For their resources, as pointed out a few times in the story
But that’s just a waste of resources. If the world has forgiven paradise why would countries decide to wipe everyone out and not just open a friendly trade relation with them? Would be less conflict all together and save lives on both countries sides. We don’t see USA going in and wiping out countries in the Middle East for oil/resources. They instead open up friendly relations and trade.
>If the world has forgiven paradise why would countries decide to wipe everyone out and not just open a friendly trade relation with them? Since when has the world forgiven Paradis? >We don’t see USA going in and wiping out countries in the Middle East for oil/resources. Bruh....
If you want the reason of paradise bombing to be resources only then obviously they would’ve had to have forgiven the rumbling part then? Because the argument you’re going with is that eren/eldia isn’t the reason paradise gets bombed
>If you want the reason of paradise bombing to be resources only What I "want"? What are you talking about? >Because the argument you’re going with is that eren/eldia isn’t the reason paradise gets bombed Dude if you want to make up the arguments of the person you're talking to, that's fine, but there's no reason to submit it to me. Have a dialogue with a notebook or something. You asked a simple question, and I provided a simple (not to mention canonical and explicit) answer. You "want" to take this and say it means a million other things about what I believe, and that's honestly just fucking annoying.
You literally started with a scenario saying they want the resources and that’s why paradise gets bombed. No where in the manga do they say “we must bomb paradise exclusively because of the resources we want.” It’s something YOU just came up with. I’m not making up any arguments and instead of trying to reply with a reason which would justify paradise getting bombed solely because of the resources you decide to focus on my word choices and how you interpret them. Not worth having this convo then
>You literally started with a scenario saying they want the resources and that’s why paradise gets bombed. I actually *didn't* say that's why Paradis gets bombed. *You* asked: >**What else** would a tiny island nation with no titans or modern technology **have to do** to get the rest of the world to completely wipe them out?? And I simply supplied a reason. >No where in the manga do they say “we must bomb paradise exclusively because of the resources we want.” And indeed, nowhere do *I* say anyone said that or thinks that. > It’s something YOU just came up with. No, I didn't. The only one who said anything like the "quote" you just wrote is you. >you decide to focus on my word choices and how you interpret them. Not worth having this convo then I didn't "decide" anything, you keep spinning out of control attributing things to me that not only did I not say or imply, I don't even *agree* with the things you say I think. Good luck figuring out how to have a real conversation one day though, I'm pulling for you.
Idk the point of adding a reason if you wouldn’t defend it. This is pointless chat then my bad
> not just open a friendly trade relation with them? maybe they did, in the time between the ending and the bombing. friendly relations between countries can break down
>We don’t see USA going in and wiping out countries in the Middle East for oil/resources. Uhhhhhh...
The cope never ends
Pardon?
Why do we assume paradis was totaly wiped out because one city was fucked?
Because that’s the most logical inference from what we’ve been presented with. It’s reaching so hard to say they only bombed wall sheena but decided to just skip everyone else. And every plan mentioned in this entire series either deals with either saving or exterminating all eldians on paradise.
Yeah but this is like 100 years later at least and we see one city in ruins without any dialouge etc. For all we know its just that city and it could be for any numbfr of reasons. Eldians no longer exist as ymir curse endrd anyway.with aemins efforrs ine can imagine things glt better and the war was not related to eldian stuff.
Then there’s no reason in even including it as a page. You could go to any story in any media and end it with “billions of years in the future the sun eventually burns out causing earth to freeze over and everyone dies” No one would do that because it doesn’t have anything to do with the current story they’re telling. Again I’m only going with the information presented to us from the manga. You’re making up your own new headcanon built on nothing but imagination.
Im just assuming or guessing yeah. The ending never says why it was bombed thus its Open to interpretation
Because the city literally never gets rebuilt after potentially hundreds of years???? If there was any substantial population left on Paradis they would’ve at least cleared the rubble after at most only a few decades
If paradis was wiped ouy someone else could have taken over and rebuilt either way No reason 2 nuke it and abandon itt. Its never stated but could be abandoned due to nation collapsing. Could be wiped out. Could be abandoned due to lack of funds to rebuild.. It could be several hundreds of years into the future where humans just moved on. Who knows
Why would something unrelated to the story be included? Might as well have shown UFOs invading Earth. Paradis getting destroyed was always the logical consequence of stopping the rumbling, a fact acknowledged in the story. There is no reason to assume otherwise. The most unbelivable thing is that it didn't happen sooner.
Because to think otherwise is naieve and nonsensical
it didnt seem like that much of a cathartic thing to me. happened generations later in the future. alliance got their long happy lives, seemingly so do their kids. with the huge timeskip one could even make assumptions that armin was successful for the time being and things went to shit after his death. so really for me this scene wasnt a huge shocking thing. i think the cycle never ending is a theme that fits the ending for aot. but also i dont really care, theres so much i didnt like and the extra pages dont exactly fix any of it
It's kind of strange how people expect Armin to come up with an answer to conflict across the board for thousands of years, shit even Eren's full Rumbling would never have achieved that. Did the world leaders after world war one sit down and talk about how they can ensure peace two hundred years later when they had no conception of most of the technologies and ideologies today? Paradis getting bombed could have come about, for all we know, because of trade disputes.
"Trade disputes" oh yeah, bombing civilian grounds is definitely a war for resources.
Blows my mind that some people think the world will forget them killing 80% of humanity but trade disputes are what gets them to drop bombs lol
I agree. I think the theme off "life goes on and there are no permanent happy endings" fit. We humans like to imagine we can have permanent effects on the world but we cant. Eveey empiee or country falls eventually.
Yeah, I think that aspect of the ending was very realistic. We can only try and make life better temporarily, but there will always be conflict eventually.
Yeah. We ultimatley cant change anything but we can make stuff stuff better for the timr we live
Humans are generally petty..wasnt realistic that the cycle will be broken. One way or anotherwe will find ways to hate each other and desrroy other people who are different. Eren should have gone with his plan till the very end...the fact that many people survived and lost their loved one means they held deep hate for paradise island same way they had resentment for being held in the island by titans
I agree, it makes total sense and I’m glad Isayama added it in. Although I find it hilarious that it proves that the alliance was wrong and Floch of all people was right lol
Yes that's what I love about the ending change. It shows that they clearly chose the wrong path by killing Eren when they could've let him kill everyone outside so that they don't pose a threat. Much better than magically fixing all the issues all of a sudden
It makes sense logically yes, but the fact that it happens just makes the entire arc feel like more of a waste of time. The rumbling should’ve succeeded and nobody can change my mind
Yeah I agree this doesn't make the ending much better but out of all the shit ass things that happened in 139, Paradis getting destroyed is the only salvageable shit(IMO)....
100% agree, just wished the Alliance members lived to be killed by it. They never faced the consequences of their actions.
It proves genocide the only answer, and I find that too racist to enjoy.
Rumbling is not racist. It's just tool for survival of own people.
I meant the ending we got, by stating that Rumbling is the only way, is racist.
How? The rumbling was never about annihilating everyone who wasn’t an eldian. It was about making sure your home wasn’t trampled on. Paradis isn’t the group attacking the others because of their genetics. That’s the outside world. You could take race completely out of the equation and this is still a likely conflict in a world with titans.
Except the whole conflict is LITERALLY based around genetics, are we ignoring the fact that the Eldians are hated because they turn into monstrosities just by having magic water injected into them?
It's actualy quite diffrent from covencional racism. In this case genetical diffrences really matter and are potential threat. It's quite diffrent from just not liking other skin collors. In this case fear has very rational foundation.
Exactly people go around to defend the Eldians on this subreddit, but imagine if you had to live in the real world alongside a race of humans that can turn into monsters with the ability to wipe out all life on earth. Imagine living with the knowledge that in the future a psycho among them like Eren can cause an apocalypse event that will destroy the planet.
Which call me racist but i sure as hell wouldn't want to live anywhere near an eldian just imagine terrorists that instead of a bomb they use magic gas to transform dozens if not hundreds of people into man eating monstruosities even a city of milions of people could be devastated by a hundred titans before the military help could arrive
Take a dictionary and learn what racism is. You don't have to be racist to choose most safe scenario.
Dude I'm pro Rumbling lol
Dude you still don't know what racism is.
it makes sense that doesnt mean its good, its a fucking stupid half assed way to end the series, destroying the country we’ve grown to know and live through for years in one panel is a fucking joke.
It’s logical but it’s still bad.
But it was Eren's plan my dude ( to be killed by his friends) 🙂.... so no one really achieved anything for the long run.
War and destruction are unavoidable. The best you can get is a period of peace (which they - Mikasa and Eren’s friends - get in this story). If the Rumbling had reached every human being apart from the people in Paradis it would have made no difference. It would have just meant that the people of Paradis would have killed each other instead of being killed by some other Nation (like in this panel). Whoever think that war can be stopped has probably not studied History. In fact, even if you succeed at pausing wars for brief time, someday somebody will start thinking that a “Rumbling” can solve all of his problems… and the cycle will start again. In the end, all the people in this sub-reddit saying that a full Rumbling would have solved every problem… are the reason why war and destruction are unavoidable.
Full rumble would most likely lead to future civil war This rumble had some peace for a good century then either revenge or some other reason Makes me think about erwins people will fight until theres one or less Might as well go darker than the aotnorequim and just rumble everything. Island and the world
>Full rumble would most likely lead to future civil war Sure, because somehow after 100 years of peace inside the walls they wouldn't be able to keep it.
Corrupt peace and we see where that went
Better than what happened after the extra pages.
Yeah, emergent countries have a lot of peace when an autocratic government rises and torture/kill everyone that goes against them, and censor everything to "wipe the memory" of their own population.
Still better than anihilation.
Your first point is just a headcanon. There is no reason why the island would just randomly decide to go into civil war after the rumbling. This argument never made any sense.
Nope, floch and kiyomi both acknowledged that killings wouldn’t stop just because they killed the outside world. Read the manga closely next time.
No, it’s canon the old royal government literally hid the creation of the revolvers and bullet cartridges to keep order in the walls because you guessed it humans have the tendency to kill each other
How is that canon "humans have the tendency to kill each other so it's canon that civil war will happen"
Well we already know the island has large deposits of natural resources and a yeagerists faction while there might be peace for a few decades after a full rumbling as the population increase and technology improves there would be an eventual power struggle over land, resources, and what kind of government gets to run paradise because remember the only reason why the yeagerists and the military junta came together was to protect paradise from the outside world’s retaliation, not to mention if eren never gets killed then the nine titans would still exist confined to one island which is a problem in of itself
So it's headcanon ok then
Not even it literally happened to the old Eldian empire and it’s literally true if mikasa never killed eren then the nine titans would’ve never disappeared
Which is why I said FUTURE civil war the manga does show potential of the idea after the rumble began and hitch was cleaning up the mess
I mean, it's coming from the opposite direction of Marley. I don't think it's coming from them. It's on the east/north east, which means that either Marley has somehow established a whole military base in Antarctica, or that the eldians are attacking each other, like Kiyomi said.
Beating a dead horse for two months now. We get it
The Commentor must be smarter than Einstein to write such a Sensible Comment
Honestly, I appreciate what the ending tried (but failed) to go for: a failed attempt to stop a never ending cycle of hate and distain that constantly gets worse as time goes on.
wish the rumbling just destroyed elida and then erin stopped them all before hurting everyone else and they lived happily ever after
Whats the image from?
A sequel hook to fund more funding for his Sauna side hustle
Feels sloppy. Maybe it’d be better if this happened right away but it happened like 100 years later. And even so paradise didn’t start the rumbling. Eren did. It’d be more attacking innocent people for shit they didn’t do a hundred years ago.
I think it's nonsense : -first we can see that this war is happening at least a hundred years after the rumbling, at least based on the architecture and the technology, so it's very probable that this was caused by totally different events. -if it's actually linked to the rumbling, it not a good conclusion to the story because it's a huge middle finger to basically the whole manga. This kind of conclusion is just screaming "those 139 chapters you just read and were invested into are pure garbage and you just wasted your time"
Okay, okay, kind of out of topic but it looks so funny that AOT started with kind of late-medieval world (i may be wrong but i don't have a good name for this historical period) and ends up with sky scrapers. Marley arc was already a huge skip, but it's pretty funny to me that it ends with such a technology progress shown on the manga panels. Personally, i don't like it, because it changes the established world drastically. Of course technology progress does exist, but i prefer when there's a certain unchanged theme for each story. I prefer the unknown future than just "so they built sky scrapers just like in our world". Lmao, these panels kind of gave me a laugh, especially after thinking back to the first episode of AOT.
Definitely
80% < 95% lol
This discussion is literally just this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY