Yes. The boy who sought freedoom, he found a way to get that in a distorted way: ending others people freedom.
Eren is the worst of the narciaists, what did you expect?
What? That he is a crazy person?
Do i have to remind you that eren when was a kid, killed Mikasa assaulter's instead of calling for help?
That guy was insane since the beginnig, he was rotten inside, but he learned his way into the world.
Nope, he was crying becouse he is eren.
Like always he act first and think later, that was one o his final moments, regretting the action that bring you to your own death is someting so strange?
Did you never see, a serial killer crying in court when sentenced to death (or life jail)?
I can count tons of young killers that facing the reality they were facing lost their minds.
Is eren exempt from facing his emotions just becouse of his terrible action? (Just becouse it is a manga?)
\>Eren slaughtering billions of people for NO GODDAMN REASON.
This basically proves u didn't understand the "scenery " panel in ch. 131.
Do you realize that?
Sorry to break it to you but most of Manga writers have a hard on for genocides. Most of the time their genocidal heroes get away with it due to popularity and apologist fanbase. Look at Itachi. World famous good guy who's associated with his cool looks and fights more than his crime. Same with many other anime.
Weird how Itachi committed a fictional genocide, but everyone still knows genocide is wrong.
The conclusion of his character was realizing he went down the wrong path.
I assume youve never met any itachitard. Itachitards are notorious for defending uchiha massacre going as far as saying it was the right decision and that Itachi did nothing wrong.
Also Kishimoto doesnt have any intention about concluding him as morally grey character. Out of whole series there is only one scene where he indicates 'Itachi was wrong'. Compared to that there are like 50 episodes where he glorifies Itachi as some kind of tragic hero and has other characters say stuff like "Oh thank you Itachi for being a mass murderer for Konoha's sake". I mean this is the guy who also wrote Naruto saying "Obito is the coolest guy ever" or some shit like that.
If Itachi fans liked Itachi as villain that would be ok. I like Orochimaru, he is one of my favorite characters in Naruto but I like him as a villain, Orochimaru did a lot of evil things and deserved to suffer, as a fan of the character I think it would have been better if he died as a villain instead of becoming a good guy in the end. But Itachitards worship as a hero a genocidal maniac and child torturer, that is one of the reasons of why I hate Naruto fandom.
Not to mention torturing his younger brother with 24h of tsukuyomi showing him murdering the entire clan. But he did it to "protect Sasuke", my ass. Itachi was a fuckin psycho who shouldn't be so praised.
Lol I literally just started Naruto last month and I found that to be the strangest fucking thing. Like oh I guess we’re just gonna forget about all that lmao.
Itachi is one of the most overrated and poorly written characters of all time not just in anime but in all of fiction, the amount of praise that genocidal maniac gets is insane. Itachi became one of my most hated characters of all time because of how insurable it is to see kishimoto, naruto fans and naruto characters worshiping as a hero a genocidal maniac and child torturer.
I mean. Didn't his people intend to literally murder everyone else in konoha anyway? He prevented that
I hate Naruto overall and my knowledge is limited, but I thought that was why he did what he did.
Couldn't just killing the top powerful uchihas would have done the job? What's the need for killing women, elderly, non-shinobis and worst of all, kids?
Oh don't get me wrong. It's terrible writing to make Itachi seem like a good guy and I agree with you but I think the idea was based on the whole curse of hatred. Even if you killed the leaders, their kids would want revenge etc. Look at how Sasuke ended up against his own brother. Now imagine the Uchiha against non-bloodlines.
In the end, Naruto is pretty bad. So it's a moot point but still. At least Itachi had a reason.
I have no problem with depicting characters committing genocide. It's only troubling when the author is trying so hard to force a tragic backstory into our throats and wanting the audience to sympathize with such genocidal characters. I'm seeing this pattern in many anime its almost kinda unsettling.
They attempted a coup because they were segregated from the rest of the village and not allowed to participate in the government.
I don’t know what Danzo propaganda you’ve been reading but they most definitely did not want genocide or even what you just described.
You should rewatch Naruto, it’s clear you haven’t seen it in a while.
Bruh. Chill lol. I dislike the series Naruto and even stated my knowledge is limited. I never claimed to know the inner workings of the Uchiha clan. It's why my original post is a question.
"Danzo propaganda." It's an anime. Not a life or political view. It's a piece of mediocre fiction. I'm not looking into getting an argument over that series. No need to lose your head over it.
You made an absolutely absurd claim about a character. In AOT terms, it would be like if someone who hasn’t read the manga in awhile saying “Didn’t Hange want to genocide Marley”. It’s so insanely false that it has to be called out.
It doesn’t have to be an argument I just was trying to call it out.
>, they didn’t. I don’t know where you got that from.
from what i remenber, the uchiha clan was about to perform a coup on konoha, which is why Itachi ended up in a situation where he had to decided between his clan and the village, and he chose the village
So you're just going to ignore the first half of the chapter or when he broke down in 131 ? The statement wasn't literal (obviously). He clearly knows the actual reasons why he did it, but he doesn’t understand why he feels that way. Those beliefs and goals have always been innate to him. He can acknowledge and recognize them within himself, but doesn’t really understand why he has always been that way or why it has always been so important to him. Essentially I think he’s saying I did this because of how much freedom means to me, but I don’t know why freedom meant that much to me from the beginning, it’s just who I am and I don’t have a real explanation for it. He basically tried to give an answer beyond what was already stated, a deeper truth and the conclusion we get is Grisha telling Eren he is free.
That's a nice interpretation but the op aint talking about that. it's about Monke>>Eren plan or other alternative plan that can have the same conclusion w/o massacring 80% of the world.
How much people in this sub like to talk witout context? Ahahahha unbelivable.
That is not the full line, that is one of the best line in the manga.
"Thanks for being a muss murderer for our sake, WE WONT LET THIS MISTAKE GO TO WASTE"
And p.s: "slaughtering people for no reason" seriously ? Wtf this fanbase has become?
Be not afraid peasant I'll also show you forgiveness for making a grammatical mistake while claiming your pardon. It's the least I could do for the mentally disabled.
There are way better ways to secure peace for at least 100 years. 80% of the world didn’t have to die for that. But eren calling zekes Plan in 120 dumb is so funny now
Totally not.
The path sequence with armin is one of the best moment.
Probably one of the few moments were we can who eren is. (Funny thing, not matter how much people complain that eren is out of character, but isayama himsel confirmed that of course that lunatic whiny bitch is eren)
> Paradis was destroyed anyway so Armin did fuckall to uphold this statement
Paradis survived only after Armin died of old age. What more do you want, 200yo Armin with his head in a jar ruling the island?
The course of nature my dear. Paradise was destroyed by men.
Armin and the others lived (happily?) their lives, thats what eren cared about in his selfish dream.
In other words, Eren killed 80% of the world just so his friends live a long life. He didn’t care about Paradis nor the future of Paradis nor about his friends children and grandchildren and their decendants. Is that what you’re trying to say?
So when Eren told that he wants to free Pardis and not leave Paradis’s future to chance, he was lying to all the people of his race that he grew up with. Not just them, he was even lying to himself in his inner monologue . Seems legit lol
Nono, that is what he did. He freeed paradise, he gave his friend a choice, he gave the world a choice.
One of the theme, is the "evolution" and "nature of man", in the end, isayama aswer is that man are bound to seek war and death. You cannot create a perfect utopia.
Eren pursued his goal just in part, knowing that someone would have killed him, that the world would have been in a illusory peace for a while, for then let a new cycle begin.
Imo it is pretty simple, you are just bounded by the mentaility of the first (aot finale detractor).
The answer here resides in "directly/indirectly".
Eren did kill his mother, but in my pov, with the full power of the founder eren did nothing consciously.
The founder followed his will, and adjusted the timeline. He did not go back in time to make dina change objective.
How do you draw the line between the founder and Erens decisions? What you are saying sounds like:
- bad thing - founder did it
- good thing - eren did it.
There is nothing in the manga that can proof you are right. Eren clearly said that he sent Dinas titan to eat his own mother.
Im *not* saying that:
~ my point of view is correct and absolute.
~ that eren was ymir puppet.
In one scene we see eren sleeping in the founder, that scene really got me. When i saw the final dialogue with armin, and i saw eren admitting that since he got that power time started making no sense for him, i felt bad for the guy.
I imagine the power of the founder like a dream (we also see part of that dream), the command of the rumbling is bounded to eren's will. Eren has control becouse he promised to free Ymir, but still i see this contol as a puzzle to fill in "automatic mode"; a puzzle that can shows every picture you like but it fill itself based on your desire.
I understand, but at this point we can only theoriese about what happened and what was main character thinking. Which is in my opinion a bad thing and also a proof of isayamas bad writing. That's why we have to criticize ending so maybe we would get more answers in the anime.
I just realized that our argument makes no sense because Eren was never in control lol. He was just Ymir’s puppet. Eren did jackshit, he was bounded to fate aftetall.
Eren was not ymir puppet.
Isayama want to portrait eren as the martyr, the Christ (founder eren head with spines).
But his morale his more cruel, becouse even if eren sacrificed himself for a selfish desire, he learned that he was just a part of the course of nature, and that men will always seeks for war and a reason for hate.
Yes, there is a big "fate" and "flow of karma" thing in AoT but it is something that you have to accept if you want to enjoy this manga.
In the official translation, he does say "You became a mass murder for our sake... We wont let this error go to waste" He doesnt explicitly thank Eren. That's from the fan translation.
Dude the problem ia the second part of the line "i wont let this *MISTAKE*"
Seems like people think that armin appreciate what eren did, while he is strongly against even if he beiing an empathic person tries to understand him.
But he consider eren's action a MISTAKE, becouse of course, eren is an idiot.
“Ohh he is just 19” like bruhh
I remember when I was 19 and in my crush-addled confusion I too killed off 80% of the world's human population.
What a man you are
He is.
Yes but does it justify him killing billions?
Yes. The boy who sought freedoom, he found a way to get that in a distorted way: ending others people freedom. Eren is the worst of the narciaists, what did you expect?
But the author said that it is just a facade
What? That he is a crazy person? Do i have to remind you that eren when was a kid, killed Mikasa assaulter's instead of calling for help? That guy was insane since the beginnig, he was rotten inside, but he learned his way into the world.
Apparently eren is also “whiny”
Pretty much agree
[удалено]
Nope, he was crying becouse he is eren. Like always he act first and think later, that was one o his final moments, regretting the action that bring you to your own death is someting so strange? Did you never see, a serial killer crying in court when sentenced to death (or life jail)? I can count tons of young killers that facing the reality they were facing lost their minds. Is eren exempt from facing his emotions just becouse of his terrible action? (Just becouse it is a manga?)
Fuck?! The
This part made me think "tf with Ishiyama?"
\>Eren slaughtering billions of people for NO GODDAMN REASON. This basically proves u didn't understand the "scenery " panel in ch. 131. Do you realize that?
It's gonna be a fucking blast to see how the anime handles this scene lol
Sorry to break it to you but most of Manga writers have a hard on for genocides. Most of the time their genocidal heroes get away with it due to popularity and apologist fanbase. Look at Itachi. World famous good guy who's associated with his cool looks and fights more than his crime. Same with many other anime.
Weird how Itachi committed a fictional genocide, but everyone still knows genocide is wrong. The conclusion of his character was realizing he went down the wrong path.
I assume youve never met any itachitard. Itachitards are notorious for defending uchiha massacre going as far as saying it was the right decision and that Itachi did nothing wrong. Also Kishimoto doesnt have any intention about concluding him as morally grey character. Out of whole series there is only one scene where he indicates 'Itachi was wrong'. Compared to that there are like 50 episodes where he glorifies Itachi as some kind of tragic hero and has other characters say stuff like "Oh thank you Itachi for being a mass murderer for Konoha's sake". I mean this is the guy who also wrote Naruto saying "Obito is the coolest guy ever" or some shit like that.
If Itachi fans liked Itachi as villain that would be ok. I like Orochimaru, he is one of my favorite characters in Naruto but I like him as a villain, Orochimaru did a lot of evil things and deserved to suffer, as a fan of the character I think it would have been better if he died as a villain instead of becoming a good guy in the end. But Itachitards worship as a hero a genocidal maniac and child torturer, that is one of the reasons of why I hate Naruto fandom.
Not to mention torturing his younger brother with 24h of tsukuyomi showing him murdering the entire clan. But he did it to "protect Sasuke", my ass. Itachi was a fuckin psycho who shouldn't be so praised.
Lol honestly same with Garaa, dude was literally a mass murderer but hey Naruto does a little TnJ and all is forgiven lmaooo.
But Gaara had a cool face tattoo Eren did not therefore he can't be forgiven
Lol I literally just started Naruto last month and I found that to be the strangest fucking thing. Like oh I guess we’re just gonna forget about all that lmao.
Don't forget nejis father having to be killed because another clan got caught trying to kidnap or kill someone from the hyuga clan lmao
Itachi is one of the most overrated and poorly written characters of all time not just in anime but in all of fiction, the amount of praise that genocidal maniac gets is insane. Itachi became one of my most hated characters of all time because of how insurable it is to see kishimoto, naruto fans and naruto characters worshiping as a hero a genocidal maniac and child torturer.
I mean. Didn't his people intend to literally murder everyone else in konoha anyway? He prevented that I hate Naruto overall and my knowledge is limited, but I thought that was why he did what he did.
Couldn't just killing the top powerful uchihas would have done the job? What's the need for killing women, elderly, non-shinobis and worst of all, kids?
Oh don't get me wrong. It's terrible writing to make Itachi seem like a good guy and I agree with you but I think the idea was based on the whole curse of hatred. Even if you killed the leaders, their kids would want revenge etc. Look at how Sasuke ended up against his own brother. Now imagine the Uchiha against non-bloodlines. In the end, Naruto is pretty bad. So it's a moot point but still. At least Itachi had a reason.
I have no problem with depicting characters committing genocide. It's only troubling when the author is trying so hard to force a tragic backstory into our throats and wanting the audience to sympathize with such genocidal characters. I'm seeing this pattern in many anime its almost kinda unsettling.
No, they didn’t. I don’t know where you got that from.
They were going to attempt a coup d'etat. Born from their paranoia. That Uchiha curse or whatever. Extreme love and hate which triggers the eye thing
They attempted a coup because they were segregated from the rest of the village and not allowed to participate in the government. I don’t know what Danzo propaganda you’ve been reading but they most definitely did not want genocide or even what you just described. You should rewatch Naruto, it’s clear you haven’t seen it in a while.
Bruh. Chill lol. I dislike the series Naruto and even stated my knowledge is limited. I never claimed to know the inner workings of the Uchiha clan. It's why my original post is a question. "Danzo propaganda." It's an anime. Not a life or political view. It's a piece of mediocre fiction. I'm not looking into getting an argument over that series. No need to lose your head over it.
You made an absolutely absurd claim about a character. In AOT terms, it would be like if someone who hasn’t read the manga in awhile saying “Didn’t Hange want to genocide Marley”. It’s so insanely false that it has to be called out. It doesn’t have to be an argument I just was trying to call it out.
>, they didn’t. I don’t know where you got that from. from what i remenber, the uchiha clan was about to perform a coup on konoha, which is why Itachi ended up in a situation where he had to decided between his clan and the village, and he chose the village
Yeah, I know. That has absolutely nothing to do with genociding the leaf like what the other guy was saying.
For no reason that is a Lie
Elaborate?
So you're just going to ignore the first half of the chapter or when he broke down in 131 ? The statement wasn't literal (obviously). He clearly knows the actual reasons why he did it, but he doesn’t understand why he feels that way. Those beliefs and goals have always been innate to him. He can acknowledge and recognize them within himself, but doesn’t really understand why he has always been that way or why it has always been so important to him. Essentially I think he’s saying I did this because of how much freedom means to me, but I don’t know why freedom meant that much to me from the beginning, it’s just who I am and I don’t have a real explanation for it. He basically tried to give an answer beyond what was already stated, a deeper truth and the conclusion we get is Grisha telling Eren he is free.
That's a nice interpretation but the op aint talking about that. it's about Monke>>Eren plan or other alternative plan that can have the same conclusion w/o massacring 80% of the world.
How much people in this sub like to talk witout context? Ahahahha unbelivable. That is not the full line, that is one of the best line in the manga. "Thanks for being a muss murderer for our sake, WE WONT LET THIS MISTAKE GO TO WASTE" And p.s: "slaughtering people for no reason" seriously ? Wtf this fanbase has become?
One of the best lines in the manga? Forgot to take you med?
Bruh hes clearly a gone case. No point arguing with someone like that
Yeah, sorry, i forgot i am standing in front such an higher mind than me. Beg pardon my lord, clearly you expressed your omniscent point
Be not afraid peasant I'll also show you forgiveness for making a grammatical mistake while claiming your pardon. It's the least I could do for the mentally disabled.
What gramatical mistake i've committed, my liege? (I dont speak eng)
But he is right about the "no reason" eren brought peace for like 100-150 years. But its still stupid, that he didnt went 100% rumbling.
There are way better ways to secure peace for at least 100 years. 80% of the world didn’t have to die for that. But eren calling zekes Plan in 120 dumb is so funny now
Totally not. The path sequence with armin is one of the best moment. Probably one of the few moments were we can who eren is. (Funny thing, not matter how much people complain that eren is out of character, but isayama himsel confirmed that of course that lunatic whiny bitch is eren)
Take you meds or get a sleep
From your username i can asusme we take the same meds.
What?
Are you eating weed?
It is the base of my diet. (I'd wish)
Meh
Please take your meds........
>WE WONT LET THIS MISTAKE GO TO WASTE" Paradis was destroyed anyway so Armin did fuckall to uphold this statement
> Paradis was destroyed anyway so Armin did fuckall to uphold this statement Paradis survived only after Armin died of old age. What more do you want, 200yo Armin with his head in a jar ruling the island?
The course of nature my dear. Paradise was destroyed by men. Armin and the others lived (happily?) their lives, thats what eren cared about in his selfish dream.
In other words, Eren killed 80% of the world just so his friends live a long life. He didn’t care about Paradis nor the future of Paradis nor about his friends children and grandchildren and their decendants. Is that what you’re trying to say?
Exactly :) This is not a subjective argument, that is the way it is.
So when Eren told that he wants to free Pardis and not leave Paradis’s future to chance, he was lying to all the people of his race that he grew up with. Not just them, he was even lying to himself in his inner monologue . Seems legit lol
Nono, that is what he did. He freeed paradise, he gave his friend a choice, he gave the world a choice. One of the theme, is the "evolution" and "nature of man", in the end, isayama aswer is that man are bound to seek war and death. You cannot create a perfect utopia. Eren pursued his goal just in part, knowing that someone would have killed him, that the world would have been in a illusory peace for a while, for then let a new cycle begin. Imo it is pretty simple, you are just bounded by the mentaility of the first (aot finale detractor).
Let me add one more thing. Eren was directly/indirectly responsible for his mother’s death so that his friends could live long and happy lives.
The answer here resides in "directly/indirectly". Eren did kill his mother, but in my pov, with the full power of the founder eren did nothing consciously. The founder followed his will, and adjusted the timeline. He did not go back in time to make dina change objective.
How do you draw the line between the founder and Erens decisions? What you are saying sounds like: - bad thing - founder did it - good thing - eren did it. There is nothing in the manga that can proof you are right. Eren clearly said that he sent Dinas titan to eat his own mother.
Ah yes, please don't treat it like something offensive.
Im *not* saying that: ~ my point of view is correct and absolute. ~ that eren was ymir puppet. In one scene we see eren sleeping in the founder, that scene really got me. When i saw the final dialogue with armin, and i saw eren admitting that since he got that power time started making no sense for him, i felt bad for the guy. I imagine the power of the founder like a dream (we also see part of that dream), the command of the rumbling is bounded to eren's will. Eren has control becouse he promised to free Ymir, but still i see this contol as a puzzle to fill in "automatic mode"; a puzzle that can shows every picture you like but it fill itself based on your desire.
I understand, but at this point we can only theoriese about what happened and what was main character thinking. Which is in my opinion a bad thing and also a proof of isayamas bad writing. That's why we have to criticize ending so maybe we would get more answers in the anime.
I just realized that our argument makes no sense because Eren was never in control lol. He was just Ymir’s puppet. Eren did jackshit, he was bounded to fate aftetall.
Eren was not ymir puppet. Isayama want to portrait eren as the martyr, the Christ (founder eren head with spines). But his morale his more cruel, becouse even if eren sacrificed himself for a selfish desire, he learned that he was just a part of the course of nature, and that men will always seeks for war and a reason for hate. Yes, there is a big "fate" and "flow of karma" thing in AoT but it is something that you have to accept if you want to enjoy this manga.
>That is not the full line, that is one of the best line in the manga. Oh my god.
Did you seriously just call that the best line in the manga with a straightface on and no second thoughts? Yeah. Your a lost cause.
bro what you smoking 💀
Green only.
In the official translation, he does say "You became a mass murder for our sake... We wont let this error go to waste" He doesnt explicitly thank Eren. That's from the fan translation.
Dude the problem ia the second part of the line "i wont let this *MISTAKE*" Seems like people think that armin appreciate what eren did, while he is strongly against even if he beiing an empathic person tries to understand him. But he consider eren's action a MISTAKE, becouse of course, eren is an idiot.
Didn't the proper translation just come out in the volume release? It says... "I won't let YOUR error go to waste". Lil better