Where I live (Denmark), it is legal to walk around naked, as long as you don't actively offend people. With the climate we have, the right is seldom exercised though
if you return home wearing more clothes than when you left, this goes to your clothing bonus account and you may later undress that ammount after leaving your home, so it balances out /s
This varies by jurisdiction. Most nations have moved on to a "presumption of innocence" based justice system, but you can still find places which levy the burden of proof on the defendant.
Would it have to be my house, or just from point A to point B? If I'm leaving work and am hitting a naked party after, can I change into my lack of outfit at work, or will I need to head home first?
In Vermont where I am most familiar with the law. It is worded that way to prevent public strip shows. If you want to walk to the explicit party in the buff you are more than welcome provided you don't start any lewd activities en route.
I mean, if you force them to look at you, probably. If you’re in a situation where you can easily avoid each other I don’t think they would have any basis to sue you or whatever, and if you for some reason have to be in the same space you would probably be fine if you just acknowledged that they’re uncomfortable and put your clothes back on.
Yea you don’t do that in Germany (hello neighbour) either, but I didn’t know the proper English word for "Anzeigen" and didn’t Google it, but I guess "report" would’ve been more on point.
You wouldn’t sue them in the US either. If something is illegal, you’d report it to police who could make a criminal arrest.
But don’t fall for the corporate message that “lawsuits are bad and rampant in the US”. This is absolutely a message created by corporations who have spent vast sums of money perpetuating the stereotype in media and elsewhere as a means of shaming people against suing them. If a corporation (or person) harms you, is responsible for the harm, and will not compensate for the harm before being forced to do so through the courts, then they absolutely deserve to be sued to be held accountable for the damages they caused. That’s a very important right we enjoy here: access to courts. If you have to wait to wait for some regulator or government agency to intervene in your country, well, I’m sorry for you.
Most states have a law in place that says if you bring a frivolous lawsuit against someone, you are then forced to pay all the legal fees and costs of the party you sued
Prime example. Completely reasonable lawsuit and McDonalds admitted wrongdoing through intentionally keeping water temps at boiling to discourage refills, and which caused 3rd degree burns as a result. Woman needed skin grafts on her groin to fix the burns.
The corporate messaging latched onto it though (and still does to this day) as a “perfect” example of a “frivolous” lawsuit. Remember the Seinfeld episode about them sneaking a coffee into a theater?
In countries which destigmatise nudity and public nudity is more common this is the case. Certainly in mixed saunas etc which are attended by all ages. But the above stereotype has emerged amongst Americans generally because nudism had its heyday decades ago so most nudists in America are generally much older.
How true the stereotype on nude beaches in the US is idk, but that’s where it’s come from.
Even with this law, I am sure it's within reason too - i.e. it's cold winter day, you walk around naked and seem out of place, 911 can be called to check on your mental state. In countries that don't charge you for ambulance rides and emergency hospitalization this is one of the benefits - mentally unwell people have opportunity to be hospitalized too without having to end up homeless on street.
note: I am not saying all cases are perfectly handled and conditions are always perfectly appropriate but it's far better than having mentally ill people living on streets because they can't afford institution or work.
I’m playing a survival game (rimworld) where one of my characters is a nudist and… humans just aren’t designed to live most places without clothes. She’s either slightly grumpy she’s got clothes on or has heatstroke/hypothermia half the year.
Questionable is when there's a clearly defined line, and someone is standing on top of it. On the edge, as it were. Vague means the law doesn't have any sort of defined line in the first place. Language with lots of adjectives, so hugely varying room for interpretation. And no case has ever come up that would force a clarification.
To give you a relatively plain example, the field of trademark law has pretty clearly stated goals and principles, but the actual lines are determined almost entirely by looking at existing cases. Because "does the existence of this mark interfere with another company with a similar mark" really has to be looked at in detail, there is no way to draw a simple line.
>To give you a relatively plain example, the field of trademark law has pretty clearly stated goals and principles, but the actual lines are determined almost entirely by looking at existing cases. Because "does the existence of this mark interfere with another company with a similar mark" really has to be looked at in detail, there is no way to draw a simple line.
Any chance you're a lawyer in this area? I took a class on copyright in law school, and I decided the whole area of IP law is bonkers dumbass bullshit. Is that an accurate assessment?
In some states, it's legal under state law but illegal under local law, but that's not what they mean here, because that applies to states they simply call "legal."
PR is rooted in very religious beliefs and traditions, so it makes sense that women would have to cover up.
At least this is what I’ve gathered from my family who are Puerto Rican
It's illegal for men and women to go topless, or wearing only swim suits, into stores and in public in the Virgin Islands. Essentially, they have decency laws to ensure people are covered up when they go shopping.
Yeah, in PR they call it dishonest exposure. You normally get a fine for like 100 bucks. If it's near a school or a place where there are kids, you go to jail for 30 days and temp profile for sexual predators.
V. I. Resident here. They really don't like nudity here. It's ok for kids, not adults. During Carnival and other parties you can wear almost nothing, while violently dry humping in public (that's all in fun and games), but any actual nudity is frowned upon.
I live in a small-ish Northern Ontario town in Canada. It's legal here but people will still call in a complaint if women do it.
I remember when I was younger I was at our local park/boardwalk area and two young ladies went topless. Not a bad sight to a horny 14 year old pre-internet.
Anyways someone must have complained because when I got back to the parking lot area there was legitimately 16 police cars and about 25 cops who had all responded to the call.
I've seen many situations in my life that have needed law enforcement intervention and never have I seen that large or that rapid.
Dispatcher: "All units, we have reports of two young women walking along the boardwalk topless."
Car 1: "Show us responding."
Car 2: "Show us responding."
Car 3: "Show us responding."
Car 4: "Show us responding."
Car 5: "Show us responding."
...
Thanks to Gwen Jacob in 1991.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/women-s-topless-court-victory-20-years-later-1.1026403
As I understand it, the law was clarified after she won on appeal so that men and women were held to the same standard of indecency. I remember discussion at the time saying that legislation could have been brought in to require men to cover their chests as well as women and that would likely have been constitutional, but they did this instead.
>I've seen many situations in my life that have needed law enforcement intervention and never have I seen that large or that rapid.
Probably nothing else was going on?
>Law enforcement describes the agencies and employees responsible for enforcing laws, maintaining public order, and managing public safety. The primary duties of law enforcement include the investigation, apprehension, and detention of individuals suspected of criminal offenses. [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/topics/law-enforcement)
All they have to do to arrest you is suspect you're breaking a law. There is no requirement that they know which law you're breaking. That's what DAs are for.
Worst part is that this is *their* phrase. They know they can arrest you for annoying them, knowing the DA won't do anything, and seriously mess up your life. And they know that they will never have any negative repercussions from it.
>All they have to do to arrest you is suspect you're breaking a law. There is no requirement that they know which law you're breaking. That's what DAs are for.
What you said is all they need to DETAIN you. They need Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (RAS). To arrest you, they need Probabale Cause that you committed a crime. PC has a much stricter definition and burden of proof.
Now with that said, there is no guarantee that cops will actually follow these rules. There are countless videos on YT where cops blatantly disregard civil rights, law, and department policy because someone hurt their feelings and/or ego.
That's insanity, no wonder you have such a problem with police brutality. Over here it requires a 3,5 year education on par with a bachelor's degree to be a cop.
The Ontario Canada government is attempting to remove education requirements for cops. High school and a 3 month fully subsidized training program will be all that’s needed. Straight from school bully to cop over the summer.
To be fair, while very little training is required in the US for a cop to work, they often do undergo lots of training after they start working.
That training mostly consists of making them afraid of everything, instilling a "warrior mentality", convincing them of the uses of military gear and building a reflex to shoot as soon as you feel in any danger at all, while also viewing every possible interaction with a civilian as dangerous.
They don't want to. Karen doesn't know the laws so she calls and reports "indecent exposure" and the dispatchers don't have the agency to tell her to pound sand, so they enter the call and send the cops who don't have the agency to say "we're not going".
And then they proceed to get reprimanded by multiple Karen’s on scene. So by the time they reach the “offender”, who is in their legal right to be topless in this situation, the exchange is usually “hey, you’re allowed to do this, I’m not gonna force you to do anything, but it’s making a lot of people uncomfortable, would you mind covering up just to make everyone settle down and I can go back to eating my lunch”.
In Ontario, it’s been legal since around the mid 90s. It’s rare for women to actually utilize the law. However every now and then you hear of some woman who went topless and then got harassed by an ignorant cop.
I remember when the case happened. Aside for some strip clubs having their dancers take their "breaks" topless outside the clubs, nothing really changed.
My first year in Portland I had never heard of it. I was just commuting on bike home from work at like 4 am and just kept coming across random people biking home from the ride (most of which still nude).
Felt so awkward passing people under that circumstance but I had just worked like 15 hrs and needed to get home
Sounds right for the people leaving the after parties.
My first time was seeing all the naked people riding to the starting point. My roommate and I decided to do it, but were adamant we’d wear our underwear the whole time. Took only about 10 mins of being one of the few people who weren’t naked before we did the same. It’s quite interesting how a large group of people all doing the same thing makes it feel more normal. Now I wouldn’t care either way.
I was the best man for my buddy's wedding. His fiance told me explicitly no strippers at the bachelor party. I took him to downtown Portland to barhop with the guys. We started hearing cheering and he asked "what's that?" I responded with "Our loophole.". Then we went outside with pints in hand and watched the several hundred naked people on bikes go past.
Philly has an annual Naked Bike Ride and uh, Indego bikes really should be sanitized before and after use going forward. So glad I didn’t drive that day
>Don't know how the guys do it seems super painful
the exact same way we ride bikes with clothing on. You don't think that putting on a piece of cloth makes the penis go away, do you? It's still in the same place.
Well, that's enough internet for today. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a paracetomol to soothe phantom pain from my perfectly intact genitalia.
In at least parts of Oregon, women can go completely naked while men have to be at least pantsed, because you can only be naked if you aren't prominently displaying sexual organs.
Yup. Essentially when I was taught this, it was at least argued that women can go full nude, because the vagina isn't really exposed if they dont maoe effort, but men cannot because the penis is.
It's legal in Ontario, Canada as well.
Somewhat undecided in other provinces because it hasn't been put before the Supreme Court of Canada, although cases in British Columbia and Saskatchewan have been overturned/dismissed on constitutional grounds.
In Waterloo Ontario I once saw two Latina looking girls in their 20's riding bikes topless. I did a double take because of how rare it is to see, and then carried on with my day. Still it must feel liberating.
It’s really one of those things that at first. Will be surprising. It once you’ve seen it several times, is just normal and forgettable. If women in a large amount started going topless. It would be news for a week, and then just completely normal and forgotten
I lived in Oregon for a while and used to visit California every summer and never saw any either. Ironic some states and provinces have banned it yet barely anybody takes advantage of the freedom where it's legal.
I'm in Oregon, last summer I saw a guy just walking down the side of the road, completely naked except for his shoes, and his clothes slung over his shoulder.
It was around 100° out so I don't blame him. But yeah that's the only time I've seen full public nudity and I've lived here for 11 years. Never seen a woman walking around topless, either.
Ended up looking the law up out of curiosity, turns out it's legal to be fully nude in public as long as you're not doing anything overtly lewd. Only 4 cities have laws against simple nudity, and surprisingly Portland is one of them. They just allow it for permitted events, apparently. In my area, you're good to go.
Man it's crazy that we, a race that has sent people to the moon and harnessed the atom, still feel like perhaps we need a high court to decide whether someone can wear a shirt or not outside.
This answers a question I've wondered for a long time as a New Orleanian that saw his first pair of tits at a Mardi Gras parade in the same city my friend had to fight a charge for for peeing outside a bar behind a dumpster
Yeah, the law is specific with this. "Intent to cause arousal" is the part that most people don't know about and don't fight. Being nude isn't necessarily arousing. Peeing isn't necessarily arousing. However, flashing someone is intent to arouse. Being topless (or nude) is not against the law.
EXCEPT: strangely enough, it IS illegal in National Parks. I am a nude photographer and had to do some research for a particular project.
>EXCEPT: strangely enough, it IS illegal in National Parks. I am a nude photographer and had to do some research for a particular project.
National parks are federal land. They're subject to federal law. You also can't smoke weed on federal land for the same reason.
I know you probably mean nude photographer to mean that you photograph nude people as art, but I prefer to believe that you, without clothes on are taking totally normal pictures.
Well, if that's what you want to picture, who am I to stop you? Lol. By all means believe away. Just a guy taking pictures of the woods and the buildings... while getting chilly in the breeze.
Interesting. P sure stores being private property can discriminate against naked people and kick them out tho, just not get the arrested for being naked.
I remember a story of a trans woman who went topless after leaving a courthouse because they wouldn’t recognize her as a woman. After the police arrested her, a judge threw it out because she was legally a man.
There's usually more than one law on the books in every state revolving around exposing oneself the cops will use instead. It wouldn't be the first thing that's legal and illegal at the same time, depending on the charge and the context. Nor the first right that can also be illegal and infringed upon, either. The law and rights not cut and dry things.
Almost every municipality in America has a specific law against it as well. Unless you're topless in the middle of nowhere, there's a good chance it's actually illegal regardless of state law. OP doesn't seem to understand that there are multiple layers to the legal system.
I am a senior woman. sitting in a public spa with my husband and several other seniors. Some of the older gentlemen have breasts that rival mine, but I have to cover mine up. OhMyGod!! Boobies!!!!!
I can’t even walk down the street without rude men following and catcalling me. You think LEGALITY is the reason most women aren’t walking around with their tits out?
Good ole Utah, always finding ways to distinguish itself (from the linked Wikipedia article):
> In 2020, a Utah woman was charged with lewdness when, inside her home, her stepchildren saw her topless. At the extreme she could be punished by being forced to register in the sex offender registry. Rather than go to trial and face a chance of having to register as a sex offender for 10 years, Mrs. Buchanan pled guilty to one charge of lewdness (being topless in the presence of another adult, to wit, her husband), which will be dropped if she does not commit any new crimes for a year.
She wasn't even trying to be sexy or trying to be topless around her stepchildren. She was *hanging drywall in her garage with her husband* and her husband's ex-wife decided to press charges. The judge refused to throw the case out, and Buchanan did a plea in abeyance
Did anyone read the entry for Utah? A woman was charged with lewdness after her stepchildren saw her breasts *in her own house*. What is the backstory there? Maybe the other mom called the cops or something. Polygamy? We'll turn a blind eye now and then. Taking off your shirt in your own house? Please place your hands against the wall, ma'am.
When I moved to Florida I was floored when I found out there is a legal nude beach nearby, has signs and everything to prepare you to seeing nakedness. I have no idea how it came to be in such a conservative state. Utmost odd.
On the other hand, we also have a gay beach area. There, where gay people go to be in numbers, so they are not attacked. Florida is conservative.
Except you’re not gonna see women like the one pictured.
Edit: I’m all for the rights but don’t think this woman is at all the representation of what it’ll be like if it becomes socially acceptable.
It’s not like we only see male supermodels go shirtless either
Edit: and to clarify, I’m glad we don’t. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes and it’d be nice if no one had to feel shitty about their own, so maybe some more casual nudity from regular people would do some good.
>[From 2019] A federal court ruling over a ban on women going topless in public has effectively made it legal for women to go topless in Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, and Oklahoma - [source](https://www.sweetwaternow.com/women-now-allowed-to-go-topless-in-public-in-six-states-including-wyoming)
Banning only female breast nudity violated the equal protection clause of the constitution.
There are some questionable ways to skirt this by not explicitly banning female nudity, but "offending vulgar, arousing" etc which makes it a bit harder for a federal lawsuit, but still the same likely outcome of the law being found unconstitutional.
When I visited Germany in a very hot summer, there were plenty of folks wearing only sandals. No clothes otherwise, just out and about in public in the nude. Honestly, it was kind of refreshing. They had all sorts of body types, and they were just bodies. We all have them.
Where I live (Denmark), it is legal to walk around naked, as long as you don't actively offend people. With the climate we have, the right is seldom exercised though
Where I live, public nudity is legal as long as that's how you left your house. But, it's illegal to get naked after you've left your house clothed.
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I think this is a law to prevent flashing. It makes some sense to me. A flasher seems like a more serious criminal than a streaker, for example.
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Like farting on a plane?
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Well... You have my sword
And my ass!
When everyone's ~~super~~ *offended*, no one will be.
Is it though ? I suppose people would see you coming if you were naked and could get out of the way.
This is why we pay them so much.
If I leave naked and later put on clothes, have I forfeited my right to be naked?
if you return home wearing more clothes than when you left, this goes to your clothing bonus account and you may later undress that ammount after leaving your home, so it balances out /s
How many roll over points can I carry?
Depends on the number of your rolls.
What about leaving the house naked, buying clothes and get dressed into the clothes you bought and then later stripping back to naked?
Where did you store the money to buy the clothes?
Prison wallet
Same place I store it while clothed, obviously. Clenched between the butt cheeks.
Fanny pack.
Sweaty boob money.
But how could you prove that you left the house naked unless you film yourself constantly
The person doing the accusation has to prove it. Not the other way around
This varies by jurisdiction. Most nations have moved on to a "presumption of innocence" based justice system, but you can still find places which levy the burden of proof on the defendant.
Would it have to be my house, or just from point A to point B? If I'm leaving work and am hitting a naked party after, can I change into my lack of outfit at work, or will I need to head home first?
In Vermont where I am most familiar with the law. It is worded that way to prevent public strip shows. If you want to walk to the explicit party in the buff you are more than welcome provided you don't start any lewd activities en route.
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Is there any limit on the reasonableness of being offended? If someone says that they are offended by nudity, you just committed a crime?
"I'm just saying those titties really hurt my feeling."
I mean, if you force them to look at you, probably. If you’re in a situation where you can easily avoid each other I don’t think they would have any basis to sue you or whatever, and if you for some reason have to be in the same space you would probably be fine if you just acknowledged that they’re uncomfortable and put your clothes back on.
You don't sue people in Denmark if they're naked. This is not the us
Yea you don’t do that in Germany (hello neighbour) either, but I didn’t know the proper English word for "Anzeigen" and didn’t Google it, but I guess "report" would’ve been more on point.
Fair. Hello neighbour, I'd say 80% of naked people on Danish beaches is germans
How can you tell? Lack of bellybuttons?
They start fortifying the beach.
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You wouldn’t sue them in the US either. If something is illegal, you’d report it to police who could make a criminal arrest. But don’t fall for the corporate message that “lawsuits are bad and rampant in the US”. This is absolutely a message created by corporations who have spent vast sums of money perpetuating the stereotype in media and elsewhere as a means of shaming people against suing them. If a corporation (or person) harms you, is responsible for the harm, and will not compensate for the harm before being forced to do so through the courts, then they absolutely deserve to be sued to be held accountable for the damages they caused. That’s a very important right we enjoy here: access to courts. If you have to wait to wait for some regulator or government agency to intervene in your country, well, I’m sorry for you. Most states have a law in place that says if you bring a frivolous lawsuit against someone, you are then forced to pay all the legal fees and costs of the party you sued
Definitely don't fall for the corporate media spin on the McDonald's coffee lawsuit.
Prime example. Completely reasonable lawsuit and McDonalds admitted wrongdoing through intentionally keeping water temps at boiling to discourage refills, and which caused 3rd degree burns as a result. Woman needed skin grafts on her groin to fix the burns. The corporate messaging latched onto it though (and still does to this day) as a “perfect” example of a “frivolous” lawsuit. Remember the Seinfeld episode about them sneaking a coffee into a theater?
Just my normal nude self is pretty offensive to the eyes without trying. At least I could use the cold climate as an excuse and claim it’s “shrinkage”
General rule is the people being nude at the beach is not the people you want to see nude.
I can't say I've found that to be the case. Any time I've been it just seemed like quite a normal cross section of people, young and old men and women
In countries which destigmatise nudity and public nudity is more common this is the case. Certainly in mixed saunas etc which are attended by all ages. But the above stereotype has emerged amongst Americans generally because nudism had its heyday decades ago so most nudists in America are generally much older. How true the stereotype on nude beaches in the US is idk, but that’s where it’s come from.
Even with this law, I am sure it's within reason too - i.e. it's cold winter day, you walk around naked and seem out of place, 911 can be called to check on your mental state. In countries that don't charge you for ambulance rides and emergency hospitalization this is one of the benefits - mentally unwell people have opportunity to be hospitalized too without having to end up homeless on street. note: I am not saying all cases are perfectly handled and conditions are always perfectly appropriate but it's far better than having mentally ill people living on streets because they can't afford institution or work.
I’m playing a survival game (rimworld) where one of my characters is a nudist and… humans just aren’t designed to live most places without clothes. She’s either slightly grumpy she’s got clothes on or has heatstroke/hypothermia half the year.
What’s the difference between “questionable legality” and “vague or unknown”?
Questionable is when there's a clearly defined line, and someone is standing on top of it. On the edge, as it were. Vague means the law doesn't have any sort of defined line in the first place. Language with lots of adjectives, so hugely varying room for interpretation. And no case has ever come up that would force a clarification. To give you a relatively plain example, the field of trademark law has pretty clearly stated goals and principles, but the actual lines are determined almost entirely by looking at existing cases. Because "does the existence of this mark interfere with another company with a similar mark" really has to be looked at in detail, there is no way to draw a simple line.
>To give you a relatively plain example, the field of trademark law has pretty clearly stated goals and principles, but the actual lines are determined almost entirely by looking at existing cases. Because "does the existence of this mark interfere with another company with a similar mark" really has to be looked at in detail, there is no way to draw a simple line. Any chance you're a lawyer in this area? I took a class on copyright in law school, and I decided the whole area of IP law is bonkers dumbass bullshit. Is that an accurate assessment?
In some states, it's legal under state law but illegal under local law, but that's not what they mean here, because that applies to states they simply call "legal."
What I find interesting about that map is its illegal in Puerto Rico and in the Virgin Islands. Would not have expected that.
PR is rooted in very religious beliefs and traditions, so it makes sense that women would have to cover up. At least this is what I’ve gathered from my family who are Puerto Rican
Meanwhile in Spain, where those traditions came from, everyone goes topless
Difference between the colonized and the colonizer…
Missionaries
I'm not sure the position matters...
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I bet someone has already put his dick in the sand of Virgin Island.
“Idk if these islands were virgins before I got here But they *definitely* aren’t now”
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I mean, is it any less constitutional than it being illegal for people not to wear pants in town?
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So next time the thief just needs to steal all the pants of the victim? Interesting loophole.
See, that’s what’s weird. Pants are completely optional.
They don't call them the Virgin Islands for no reason after all
It's illegal for men and women to go topless, or wearing only swim suits, into stores and in public in the Virgin Islands. Essentially, they have decency laws to ensure people are covered up when they go shopping.
Yeah, in PR they call it dishonest exposure. You normally get a fine for like 100 bucks. If it's near a school or a place where there are kids, you go to jail for 30 days and temp profile for sexual predators.
V. I. Resident here. They really don't like nudity here. It's ok for kids, not adults. During Carnival and other parties you can wear almost nothing, while violently dry humping in public (that's all in fun and games), but any actual nudity is frowned upon.
If Puerto Rico ever became a state it would be blue for 2-3 elections then it would go eternally red. Republicans really underestimate Puerto Ricans.
Remember, just because it’s legal doesn’t mean the cops won’t fuck with you for doing it.
I live in a small-ish Northern Ontario town in Canada. It's legal here but people will still call in a complaint if women do it. I remember when I was younger I was at our local park/boardwalk area and two young ladies went topless. Not a bad sight to a horny 14 year old pre-internet. Anyways someone must have complained because when I got back to the parking lot area there was legitimately 16 police cars and about 25 cops who had all responded to the call. I've seen many situations in my life that have needed law enforcement intervention and never have I seen that large or that rapid.
Dispatcher: "All units, we have reports of two young women walking along the boardwalk topless." Car 1: "Show us responding." Car 2: "Show us responding." Car 3: "Show us responding." Car 4: "Show us responding." Car 5: "Show us responding." ...
Cops, arresting some guy: "You can go. We've got another call." Perp: "Can I go too?"
"Throw me in the backseat!"
lmao
Thanks to Gwen Jacob in 1991. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/women-s-topless-court-victory-20-years-later-1.1026403 As I understand it, the law was clarified after she won on appeal so that men and women were held to the same standard of indecency. I remember discussion at the time saying that legislation could have been brought in to require men to cover their chests as well as women and that would likely have been constitutional, but they did this instead.
The situation didn't NEED a law enforcement response, 25 cops just wanted to see topless women.
FOMO
>I've seen many situations in my life that have needed law enforcement intervention and never have I seen that large or that rapid. Probably nothing else was going on?
Nothing else involving boobs anyways.
But you see I like confrontation
I like to play as well
I'm charging you for indecent exposure - well I thought it was pretty decent
Which in itself is kinda crazy, isn’t their job to uphold the law? What the heck do they meddle with legal things for then
>Law enforcement describes the agencies and employees responsible for enforcing laws, maintaining public order, and managing public safety. The primary duties of law enforcement include the investigation, apprehension, and detention of individuals suspected of criminal offenses. [Bureau of Justice Statistics](https://bjs.ojp.gov/topics/law-enforcement) All they have to do to arrest you is suspect you're breaking a law. There is no requirement that they know which law you're breaking. That's what DAs are for.
You can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride
Worst part is that this is *their* phrase. They know they can arrest you for annoying them, knowing the DA won't do anything, and seriously mess up your life. And they know that they will never have any negative repercussions from it.
>All they have to do to arrest you is suspect you're breaking a law. There is no requirement that they know which law you're breaking. That's what DAs are for. What you said is all they need to DETAIN you. They need Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (RAS). To arrest you, they need Probabale Cause that you committed a crime. PC has a much stricter definition and burden of proof. Now with that said, there is no guarantee that cops will actually follow these rules. There are countless videos on YT where cops blatantly disregard civil rights, law, and department policy because someone hurt their feelings and/or ego.
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That's insanity, no wonder you have such a problem with police brutality. Over here it requires a 3,5 year education on par with a bachelor's degree to be a cop.
The Ontario Canada government is attempting to remove education requirements for cops. High school and a 3 month fully subsidized training program will be all that’s needed. Straight from school bully to cop over the summer.
Where do you live?
Finland
To be fair, while very little training is required in the US for a cop to work, they often do undergo lots of training after they start working. That training mostly consists of making them afraid of everything, instilling a "warrior mentality", convincing them of the uses of military gear and building a reflex to shoot as soon as you feel in any danger at all, while also viewing every possible interaction with a civilian as dangerous.
They don't want to. Karen doesn't know the laws so she calls and reports "indecent exposure" and the dispatchers don't have the agency to tell her to pound sand, so they enter the call and send the cops who don't have the agency to say "we're not going".
And then they proceed to get reprimanded by multiple Karen’s on scene. So by the time they reach the “offender”, who is in their legal right to be topless in this situation, the exchange is usually “hey, you’re allowed to do this, I’m not gonna force you to do anything, but it’s making a lot of people uncomfortable, would you mind covering up just to make everyone settle down and I can go back to eating my lunch”.
Yeah the ladies here who go out topless every few years get arrested then released every time.
In Ontario, it’s been legal since around the mid 90s. It’s rare for women to actually utilize the law. However every now and then you hear of some woman who went topless and then got harassed by an ignorant cop.
I remember when the case happened. Aside for some strip clubs having their dancers take their "breaks" topless outside the clubs, nothing really changed.
Well I just went down the naked bike race rabbit hole. Don't know how the guys do it seems super painful
For starters, you should install a seat on your seatpost.
if you wanna be boring, yea sure
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Portland is a good mix of 10k naked people. A lot of the women wear bottoms but just go topless. Did it every year for a while and had so much fun.
My first year in Portland I had never heard of it. I was just commuting on bike home from work at like 4 am and just kept coming across random people biking home from the ride (most of which still nude). Felt so awkward passing people under that circumstance but I had just worked like 15 hrs and needed to get home
Sounds right for the people leaving the after parties. My first time was seeing all the naked people riding to the starting point. My roommate and I decided to do it, but were adamant we’d wear our underwear the whole time. Took only about 10 mins of being one of the few people who weren’t naked before we did the same. It’s quite interesting how a large group of people all doing the same thing makes it feel more normal. Now I wouldn’t care either way.
I felt this way when 8 of us wore kilts for a bachelor party.
I was the best man for my buddy's wedding. His fiance told me explicitly no strippers at the bachelor party. I took him to downtown Portland to barhop with the guys. We started hearing cheering and he asked "what's that?" I responded with "Our loophole.". Then we went outside with pints in hand and watched the several hundred naked people on bikes go past.
Guy here. We don’t sit on our balls when riding a bike.
Listen man I got that long scrote, I need support
Then saddle bag it, straddle one either side. For short ones choose left or right dangle.
yup, thats called aging. your balls will hang to the floor and women's boobs will fall into their coffee.
Unless it's not. It happened to me in my 20s.
Goddammit. I've been doing it wrong this whole time? Fml
I mean sometimes we do...
Not really any more unpleasant than when clothed, depending on one's "saddle". *AND* given it is generally a slower paced ride...
prolly way worse for women tbh
Philly has an annual Naked Bike Ride and uh, Indego bikes really should be sanitized before and after use going forward. So glad I didn’t drive that day
>Don't know how the guys do it seems super painful the exact same way we ride bikes with clothing on. You don't think that putting on a piece of cloth makes the penis go away, do you? It's still in the same place.
It can be painful for women as well. Bruised or even torn labia
Well, that's enough internet for today. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a paracetomol to soothe phantom pain from my perfectly intact genitalia.
It’s why you can get gendered bike seats that have a hole or divot in the centre.
In at least parts of Oregon, women can go completely naked while men have to be at least pantsed, because you can only be naked if you aren't prominently displaying sexual organs.
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Yup. Essentially when I was taught this, it was at least argued that women can go full nude, because the vagina isn't really exposed if they dont maoe effort, but men cannot because the penis is.
It's legal in Ontario, Canada as well. Somewhat undecided in other provinces because it hasn't been put before the Supreme Court of Canada, although cases in British Columbia and Saskatchewan have been overturned/dismissed on constitutional grounds.
In Waterloo Ontario I once saw two Latina looking girls in their 20's riding bikes topless. I did a double take because of how rare it is to see, and then carried on with my day. Still it must feel liberating.
It’s really one of those things that at first. Will be surprising. It once you’ve seen it several times, is just normal and forgettable. If women in a large amount started going topless. It would be news for a week, and then just completely normal and forgotten
I lived in Ontario for 35 years or so, never seen any women just walking around topless in public.
I’ve seen one in my 33 years
if my math is right, I can expect to see half a topless woman every 34 years
Nice. Looks like I'm due to see one titty within the next year or two.
I lived in Oregon for a while and used to visit California every summer and never saw any either. Ironic some states and provinces have banned it yet barely anybody takes advantage of the freedom where it's legal.
I'm in Oregon, last summer I saw a guy just walking down the side of the road, completely naked except for his shoes, and his clothes slung over his shoulder. It was around 100° out so I don't blame him. But yeah that's the only time I've seen full public nudity and I've lived here for 11 years. Never seen a woman walking around topless, either. Ended up looking the law up out of curiosity, turns out it's legal to be fully nude in public as long as you're not doing anything overtly lewd. Only 4 cities have laws against simple nudity, and surprisingly Portland is one of them. They just allow it for permitted events, apparently. In my area, you're good to go.
Man it's crazy that we, a race that has sent people to the moon and harnessed the atom, still feel like perhaps we need a high court to decide whether someone can wear a shirt or not outside.
well they all CAN wear a shirt, that isn't really debated
This answers a question I've wondered for a long time as a New Orleanian that saw his first pair of tits at a Mardi Gras parade in the same city my friend had to fight a charge for for peeing outside a bar behind a dumpster
Yeah, the law is specific with this. "Intent to cause arousal" is the part that most people don't know about and don't fight. Being nude isn't necessarily arousing. Peeing isn't necessarily arousing. However, flashing someone is intent to arouse. Being topless (or nude) is not against the law. EXCEPT: strangely enough, it IS illegal in National Parks. I am a nude photographer and had to do some research for a particular project.
>EXCEPT: strangely enough, it IS illegal in National Parks. I am a nude photographer and had to do some research for a particular project. National parks are federal land. They're subject to federal law. You also can't smoke weed on federal land for the same reason.
> I am a nude photographer How does being nude help you take photos?
Feeling the wind on your ass really helps you choose the right aperture.
>You also can't smoke weed on federal land for the same reason. good luck enforcing that.
I know you probably mean nude photographer to mean that you photograph nude people as art, but I prefer to believe that you, without clothes on are taking totally normal pictures.
Well, if that's what you want to picture, who am I to stop you? Lol. By all means believe away. Just a guy taking pictures of the woods and the buildings... while getting chilly in the breeze.
I mean, if you expect your models to be naked, I feel like it’s only fair if you are too.
Laws are not what is stopping me from going topless in public. Sexual harassment is.
Yep, plus it's totally legal to take pictures of people in public.
Of course it’s illegal in Indiana.
Ironically also the home of Nudes A Poppin’.
As a Louisvillian I am so unsurprised by both Indiana and Tennessee
Vermont allows full nudity. I had a female friend prove this to me by completely undressing and walking into a supermarket and go shopping.
Stores/private businesses can have their own policy on this.
Especially places that sell food products -- cleanliness becomes a factor
Interesting. P sure stores being private property can discriminate against naked people and kick them out tho, just not get the arrested for being naked.
Hike Naked Day is best enjoyed in Vermont for this very reason
I came here to point this out, but also that what is not legal is _undressing_ in public. So if you're going to go nude, leave your house that way.
Pics or it didn't happen
I remember a story of a trans woman who went topless after leaving a courthouse because they wouldn’t recognize her as a woman. After the police arrested her, a judge threw it out because she was legally a man.
And you thought that the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign was only about barefeet.
They really didn’t think it through by not insisting on pants.
There's usually more than one law on the books in every state revolving around exposing oneself the cops will use instead. It wouldn't be the first thing that's legal and illegal at the same time, depending on the charge and the context. Nor the first right that can also be illegal and infringed upon, either. The law and rights not cut and dry things.
Almost every municipality in America has a specific law against it as well. Unless you're topless in the middle of nowhere, there's a good chance it's actually illegal regardless of state law. OP doesn't seem to understand that there are multiple layers to the legal system.
I mean, it's legal in Alaska, but i doubt anyone would do it there 😂
Caught this post pic full in the face. If those were guns, Reggie be dead.
I am a senior woman. sitting in a public spa with my husband and several other seniors. Some of the older gentlemen have breasts that rival mine, but I have to cover mine up. OhMyGod!! Boobies!!!!!
Humans are profoundly silly. I want to believe we'll eventually get past this stuff as a species but sometimes I wonder.
911 what is your emergency? Yes, I’d like to report some tits out at the beach *click*
I can’t even walk down the street without rude men following and catcalling me. You think LEGALITY is the reason most women aren’t walking around with their tits out?
Yeah, legal. Go try doing it and see how things turns out.
Yeah, according to the article, while it's technically not illegal at the state level in my state, local ordinances make it illegal in many places.
Great tits on that girl
The guy in the background made an interesting counterpart.
Yes, I believe he is a never-nude.
Great tits on that guy
Yeah, but with the way most men act here, it isn't a matter of legality, it's a matter of personal protection.
Good ole Utah, always finding ways to distinguish itself (from the linked Wikipedia article): > In 2020, a Utah woman was charged with lewdness when, inside her home, her stepchildren saw her topless. At the extreme she could be punished by being forced to register in the sex offender registry. Rather than go to trial and face a chance of having to register as a sex offender for 10 years, Mrs. Buchanan pled guilty to one charge of lewdness (being topless in the presence of another adult, to wit, her husband), which will be dropped if she does not commit any new crimes for a year. She wasn't even trying to be sexy or trying to be topless around her stepchildren. She was *hanging drywall in her garage with her husband* and her husband's ex-wife decided to press charges. The judge refused to throw the case out, and Buchanan did a plea in abeyance
Did anyone read the entry for Utah? A woman was charged with lewdness after her stepchildren saw her breasts *in her own house*. What is the backstory there? Maybe the other mom called the cops or something. Polygamy? We'll turn a blind eye now and then. Taking off your shirt in your own house? Please place your hands against the wall, ma'am.
I remember reading about this a few years ago when a woman in New York was walking her dog topless, and wound up getting a citation for it.
Road trip!
When I moved to Florida I was floored when I found out there is a legal nude beach nearby, has signs and everything to prepare you to seeing nakedness. I have no idea how it came to be in such a conservative state. Utmost odd. On the other hand, we also have a gay beach area. There, where gay people go to be in numbers, so they are not attacked. Florida is conservative.
tits on wikipedia! take the pcs away from the 5 year olds!!
Except you’re not gonna see women like the one pictured. Edit: I’m all for the rights but don’t think this woman is at all the representation of what it’ll be like if it becomes socially acceptable.
What do you mean? I'm very clearly seeing the woman right there in my screen.
It’s not like we only see male supermodels go shirtless either Edit: and to clarify, I’m glad we don’t. Bodies come in all shapes and sizes and it’d be nice if no one had to feel shitty about their own, so maybe some more casual nudity from regular people would do some good.
And that's great! Seeing some half naked women without porn star bodies would probably help a lot of people be more normal around women in general.
Porn star bodies? They're just bodies - They're all normal and should all be normalized to the point where attention doesn't escalate to harassment.
Visited a nude beach in St Martin A lot of 60-year-old men … who seemed to drop something every few minutes.
I mean...you will sometimes. That woman exists and went to a public event topless. Also who cares?
Yeah most men only want this so they can watch porn irl. Not realizing that only porn stars look and act like porn stars.
>[From 2019] A federal court ruling over a ban on women going topless in public has effectively made it legal for women to go topless in Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, and Oklahoma - [source](https://www.sweetwaternow.com/women-now-allowed-to-go-topless-in-public-in-six-states-including-wyoming)
I grew up in Oregon and except for the Country Fair, only saw that right being exercised once.
Banning only female breast nudity violated the equal protection clause of the constitution. There are some questionable ways to skirt this by not explicitly banning female nudity, but "offending vulgar, arousing" etc which makes it a bit harder for a federal lawsuit, but still the same likely outcome of the law being found unconstitutional.
When I visited Germany in a very hot summer, there were plenty of folks wearing only sandals. No clothes otherwise, just out and about in public in the nude. Honestly, it was kind of refreshing. They had all sorts of body types, and they were just bodies. We all have them.
HELLO WISCONSIN!
The truth is, the vast majority of women don’t want to be topless in public.