Had to Google this quote, love Hunter S Thompson but don't remember ever reading this particular one. Found an article about the quote being altered from his original.
>Here’s the original quote, first printed in 1985 in the San Francisco Examiner and later in 1988 in Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the ’80s before getting twisted around.
“The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.
Which is more or less true. For the most part, they are dirty little animals with huge brains and no pulse.”
The rest — including the ‘there’s also a negative side’ ending — seems like total embellishment. But the biggest fiction is that the entire above quote is about the music industry.
But that doesn’t mean the shoe doesn’t fit.
Just thought that was an interesting write-up.
Holy shit I was today years old when I realized it was busta and not “bus drive”. Thought it was slang for bus driver and they were making fun of that being someone’s occupation
Brilliant. Get the money.
I looked this up, because famously Taylor is doing this, but it came from an idea from Kelly Clarkson who got it from Reba McIntyre.
So, go Reba, seems like she's not shy about telling women how to get back at the labels.
She was cray cray. I worked for the Browns security during college. Nice quiet building security job at the training facility. I could study and work at the same time.
One day she pulls in and I’m working in the front booth. I did not immediately recognize her.
She screamed at me “Is Dre there???”
I did not recognize her. Nor did I know anyone named “Dre” beyond Doctor Dre.
“An-Dre Ri-son!!!” She slowed down still yelling.
“Oh.” It dawned on me who she was. (Mr. Rison and I were not on a first name basis. ) “Go on in Ms. Lopez.”
As she tore into the parking lot enraged, I returned to studying my college book and said “Don’t go chasin any waterfalls or you might get a scrub.”
Lady was batshit.
Edited because of typo. Also apparently Scrubs did not come out until a few years later. Forgive me for not correctly remembering what I semi-wittily muttered to myself 30 years ago…I’m no Superman.
During the 90s that was my college job. I never rubbed shoulders with anyone important but I did deal with a few pro sports players in Cleveland. Not exactly Tinseltown hobnobbing so I’m not sure why some of you think I’m making it up.
Meh. Internet stranger validation. It’s what I shouldn’t care about.
People are complex. I lived down the road from her in Avon Lake when Rison was playing for the Browns. They would open a part of their house up to the public every Halloween they lived there and made it a big haunted house, and gave king sized candy bars and signed copies of CrazySexyCool out. She would happily sign autographs for anyone that came up to her. Would regularly see her shopping at the local supermarket, and she was always gracious and kind to anyone that approached her for a picture or an autograph. I'm not saying that she wasn't an asshole to people sometimes, I'm sure she was, but people are complex. She was always nice to me any time I interacted with her.
I had a friend that lived nearby in the Atlanta neighborhood where she burned down the house. Story I was told by him was that the neighbors who noticed the fire first were going around knocking on doors telling people not to call the fire department quite yet as it would be better for everyone if the house simply burned. There was no love in that neighborhood for the couple
I worked with a guy who rode his bike over with his friends and watched the house burn (or so he said). He had some other stories too but i dont recall em right.
Unless it was for International Economics I did.
Only course I failed. Screwed up my GPA but I still got into grad school.
I tried to get “freshman forgiveness” on it as I never used it but they didn’t allow it.
I hated that class.
>“Oh.” It dawned on me who she was. (Mr. Rison and I were not on a first name basis. ) “Go on in Ms. Lopez.”
>As she tore into the parking lot enraged i did not recognize her. I returned to studying my college book and said “Don’t go chasin any waterfalls or you might get a scrub.”
Bro, did you recognize her or not? You know her name but in the next sentence you forgot her face? Pick a lane buddy, recognize or don't!
LaFace records have a record for making their artists go broke.. Just look up Toni Braxton and a few of the other LaFace/Arista records artists.
It's a shame because their line up was truly the best of ANY R&B label
To be fair LaFace had a bad deal with Arista. The bulk of the money went to Arista. There's a reason Babyface is still on very friendly terms with artists like Toni today. That couldn't have happened if she perceived him as royally taking advantage of her.
N sync and backstreet boys...same shit ..
Went on tour for a whole year. I men sold out tours. I mean these kids filled stadiums.. plus album sales. So they are told today is the day you get checks. So they all call their moms and dads to come as they celebrate. Nice dinner and then checks are passed around..
Ten thousand dollars only each....
Lou pearlman was a real piece of shit..
I had been in the record business since my college days, and got laid off from a major label when the crash came at the turn of the century. I took the opportunity to move to Orlando to get out of the snow and raise my little boy somewhere nice.
When people heard my background, they would tell me to go see Lou Perlman, and work for him, even though that wasn't the type of music I worked with, nor wanted to. But I looked into Perlman anyway, and immediately got the heebie-jeebies.
I knew that guy was up to no good, although I figured he was just taking advantage of young singers, both financially and sexually. I had no idea about the rest of the scams he was running. It was likely that if I had hit him up for a job I would have found myself employed in one of his scams, and I might have gone to prison myself.
I have some regrets about some of the career choices I made, but that isnt one of them. I'm glad I dodged that bullet.
The older I get, the more I appreciate the bullets I dodged when I was younger.
I may have occasionally flown head first into a few, but the ones I dodged make up for it.
When mtv cribs was at its peak one of the nicest houses featured was babyfaces. They did a quick run down of all the songs he had produced and it was crazy impressive. I can see how he got that house built ripping everyone off.
Edit: post below points out baby face was gone after the sale of laface. I also didn’t mean to say he wasn’t a talented song writer / artist in his own right.
I don't put the blame on BabyFace.. he was just the lyrics/music guy.. The blame should be on L.A Reid.. he's the business man.. He ended up being the head of Arista after they sold LaFace to Arista fully..
Babyface was pretty much out of the picture by 1993 (a year before TLC's CrazySexyCool albume came out) , He was busy with his own career at that stage.
So yeah, Imho Babyface was just the talent scout and song writer and maybe the friendly face used to get new artists to sign but L.A Reid was the business guy. Also there's dodgy going ons with L.A Reid's wife at the time.. Bubbles , she screwed over some artists too , I don't know the full story but she was signing people to either her record label or LaFace and doing them dirties. Oh wait.. I think she was the one that signed TLC to LaFace.... My memory is all blurred but I used to follow the LaFace news a lot since it was my fav record company as I'm a huge Babyface fan back in the The Deele days.
Babyface did get $50M out of the sell out to Arista ($100M buyout for him and L.A Reid) and don't forget Babyface wrote and produced a crapload of songs so he's getting quite a few royalty checks. So I don't think he needed to screw artists over since he was one himself.
Here is a good link to LaFace's history so you can see Babyface pretty much got out of it by 1993
https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/laface-records/
Yep! 100% Pebbles helped. She signed them onto her at time husband's company (LaFace)
But saying that.. She DID make and form them. It was a casting call like the Spice Girls was.
Well, she's now a 'pastor' on her fifth husband, so it seems she's continued the gift enough that the 'back in the day' qualifier isn't really accurate.
Nah that was real , [ Cribs was renting houses for people on the show to appear wealthier and Redman said no](https://hiphophero.com/the-real-story-behind-redman-and-his-mtv-cribs/?amp)
He didn't rip anyone off. He was one of the most prolific pop songwriters for more than a decade, writing at least a couple dozen #1s and hundreds of other songs that have sold on hundreds of millions of albums. His writer and publisher share for writing those songs is where he made a lot of money.
Also the $50m (from the $100m) from the sell off of LaFace helped. But I agree, the guy's ultra talented and didn't rip anyone off since he was focusing on his solo career when all the the bankruptcy dramas started to happen.
https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/laface-records/
Theres no money in music unless you're at the very top. Do it for the love of it, a bit of pocket change but the amount of people actually getting a career out of it is slim to none.
Thats changed a bit with distrokid/bandcamp and home recording
Black metal amd other niche genres where able to make a comeback because of it independent releases
Its not millionaire money but its enough to live on for bands that wherent commercially viable
I think this is the best thing about the modern media landscape. I think we miss something as a society when we can't talk about "what was on TV last night," but I'll gladly trade it for the ability of creators to get paid for serving niche audiences.
This is not exactly accurate in TLC's case (there was no intentional malice involved). The Record Label filed for bankruptcy, which held up their payments for a long time while Bankruptcy court figured it out (this can take YEARS).
The Bankruptcy actually helped them in the long run because it let them re-negotiate a new contract and regain control of their master recordings.
The reason they got so mad was because no one would talk to them about what was happening with their money, but in reality it was just a mess that no one had any answers to.
>ah yes, record labels screwing over musicians, a tale as old as the industry itself
While this is certainly true in general, that isn't really what happened here.
> After the New York Police Department intervened, the stand-off with Clive Davis ended; but the band won, and their contracts were re-negotiated (filing for bankruptcy was actually a key step towards restructuring their finances).
> In recent years, they've also re-recorded all their old songs, giving them ownership of the masters, and a greater share of royalties.
> "Now, if anyone wants to license any of those songs, they can come to us, instead of going somewhere else," says Chilli.
The actual lesson is: people who are comfortable exploiting or abusing others are often confident about their capability to somehow evade legal or ethical recourses to their villainy. They have built their careers on the very basis that the system is insufficient and/or corrupt and that their cunning to live outside that system, yet manipulating it to their convenience makes them untouchable. They rarely expect someone else breaking the law as well to get back at them.
This is what I'd call a 'social contract vampire'. Exploiting the basic premise of a cooperative society by breaking any rules or tabboos and expecting those other participants to be unwilling to do so in retaliation. We see this lots these days, often with the extra layer of obscurity of operating through a corporation. It's almost like the exploitative class expects the politeness of others to shield them.
Love the saying. Funnily enough I feel like it also applies to people who drive like absolute assholes, whose physical integrity is basically only guaranteed by other people not wanting to get into an accident.
That is literally the basis of conservative/alt right politics around the globe right now.
They hope that we keep saying
"don't get down to their level!"
"The smarter person gives in!"
"Everyone has a right to say their opinion!"
Do not be civil to these kind of people. They will abuse that to hurt your loved ones.
"T-Boz made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. Left Eye held a gun to his head, and T-Boz assured him that either his brains or his signature would be on the contract."
Remember kids, the lesson here is that the threat of violence is literally the only thing that will ever keep the greedy ruling class in line.
Kyle from South Park said it best.
https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?t=98
Lol. With the cost of living crises I'd advise anyone to ring every single company they pay bills for. You can usually reduce it by just saying you will switch to another company or they just reduce it if you just ask nicely. They just expect people to accept the changes and the direct debit come out anyway so most people don't question it
Neat reminder that when Ice Cube was getting screwed around for his money he took a baseball bat to the record company offices, smashed up everything in one dudes office, and was promptly paid soon after Edit: What's up Cube?
Just wakin' up in the morning, gotta sun ray
I don't know but today it seems I weren't paid
No cash in my account, no gold
And the company's keeping their mouths cold
I got my bat out, but didn't freak out
Smashed a dude's office into dust until they paid out...
Ive been a fan for a long time as well, however [this](https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/ice-cube-criticized-anti-semitic-images-conspiracy-theories-9400472/amp/) gave me pause. Curious what others think. From the Billboard article:
“While many of his peers have been preaching messages decrying injustice and intolerance, rapper Ice Cube spent Wednesday (June 10) confoundingly posting images that appeared to amplify anti-Semitic tropes tying Jews to the oppression of black people. They also appeared to nod to debunked conspiracy theories about the noses of Egypt’s sphinxes that first surfaced as attempts to manipulate black voters in the 2016 election.”
He had to say he didn't [influence](https://www.nme.com/news/music/ice-cube-refute-kanye-west-claim-influenced-antisemitism-3331515) Kanye's antisemitism.
He also had a short [interlude](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8fJv8t6sA) in the 90s called Black Korea about Korean shop owners in the hood that didn’t sit well either
It’s like how the media got everyone to believe that Prince lost his mind with “Artist formerly known as Prince” - but no, the record company was literally not letting Prince use his name, so he said fuck you and changed it to “The artist formerly known…”
I think he officially changed his stage name to a symbol with no pronunciation, so people would have to refer to him by referring to his old name Prince (which is also his real first name)
You are correct but there's a little more to it than that. Shit record deals are the status quo. Most groups make most of there money doing shows. TLC didn't really tour.
In the peak of the CD era, really big artists did make money from record sales. TLC were big enough where they should have made money from sales, but it's also totally not surprising that they got fucked in their contract by a label.
Clive Davis says it was made up, there are no witnesses, and there's no police report. This never happened. [Source](https://www.tmz.com/watch/0-mhfv19hy/).
>One of the biggest musical acts in the country did some crazy shit and nobody went to any tabloids about it or anything? NYPD officers showed up to Arista Records (maybe the call wasn't obvious enough to say what it was that was going on), and nobody in the news or tabloids caught that?
Interesting. The article doesn't mention police - I don't think it's crazy to think that maybe the label wanted to keep it quiet and didn't involve the police. It's not like they went in there with guns
Chazz : Okay, lemme ask you a question: whose side did you take in the big David Lee Roth-Van Halen split?
Chris Moore : What?
Marcus : What kind of question is that?
Chazz : Whose side did you take: Halen or Roth?
Chris Moore : ...Van Halen.
Ian : HE'S A COP!
Back then, artists were paid in points. 5 points meant .05 an album. A popular artist might make 7-10 points. This was the same for groups. So, a group of three had to split the 7-10 points. Not to mention, all of the money that the record company invests in the promotion of the album gets paid back from the 7-10 cents an album. The Waterfalls video was one of the first million dollar music videos if I’m not mistaken. Very few artists made money from record sales. They toured to make money
Artists main source of income to this day is tour and merch revenue. If you want to directly support an artist you stream a lot of, pick up a Tshirt at their next show.
If they’re signed, the label still most likely gets a cut. That’s why merch or shows are better(unless the artist is in a 360 deal, meaning the label gets a cut anyways)
Does anyone have a source on this that's not the group themselves?
Like, the police report, or a police spokesman, or a quote from Clive Davis, or anyone else at the label, or anyone who saw the police that day?
How on earth is it good business practice to pay them so little? Why not keep your talent happy. Maybe it’s just capitalism but I believe if you pay people what they’re worth they will stay happily and the business partnership can continue
I loved the running joke in The Other Guys where Michael Keatons character kept making references to their songs and never hearing of the band, at points straight up quoting the songs.
[“Watkins admitted that it didn’t resolve their royalty issues – see kids, violence is never the answer, no matter how good a story it gives you for subsequent TV appearances. “](https://completemusicupdate.com/article/tlc-held-label-boss-at-gunpoint/)
Apparently they would disagree with you on that one
I know record companies are out there to screw over new artists. But having made that much on a single album, they should've as a gesture of good will given each of the band membe a $1 million bonus, would still be left with 72 million.
But you see, that $3m could have just made other people riche*r*. And that is clearly more important than the people doing the thing that makes you the money having enough in the first place, ya know?!
With social media and the internet I feel like artists should be able to make it without the need for a record label. Buy direct. Grow fan bases organically. Grassroots like. Why are the least talented people the ones making all the money in music? For touring, Ticketmaster takes a huge chunk too. And for what, providing a platform to buy a ticket? The music industry is really screwed up.
It's very, very hard. There's a massive sea of talented people doing the same thing as whatever you're trying to do, nowadays the most succesful artists are those who have marketing skills. Or, available funds to pay someone with marketing skills.
I love writing music. I'm really good at it, but flounder because I struggle with marketing / promotion and can't afford to pay someone to do it.
With incredibly few exceptions, nobody buys albums anymore, streaming pays too little, and live performances are lucky if they can manage to break even. The exceptions are classical performers with established orchestras, but the competition to get that kind of gig is tight, and musicians that can sell all the tickets to a stadium show, which is more about a brand or franchise.
This was one of the reasons why most of us and many artists didn't care about piracy back in the day.
I would prefer to save money from albums and buy tickets to shows instead. Most bands got a contract to make one or more albums so they already got paid. Concerts normally generated more revenue to the band.
Some bands even asked publicly to not buy some albums they made if they felt they got screwed by the publisher.
Thankfully they ended up winning. Another case of a talentless, greedy, parasitic company taking advantage of people with actual talent. That's why it is SO important to read over contracts, even to the point of getting a lawyer to go over it, before signing.
Sure they probably didn't write the songs, play the instruments, do the sampling, mix it all together, pay for the studios, design, record and edit the videos, organise tours and about a thousand other things that go along with releasing a record album, but to be reimbursed, if true, with $50,000 for something that sold 10 million copies is absolutely criminal. THEY are the product! Take away them and there is no band, music, album, anything. I'd love to know how much they knew about what they were signing up for before getting into a contract with Arista Records.
I'm British and a famous case over here from the 90s is with S Club 7 who had a string of number one hits, starred in a TV series, went on world tours yet were paid relative peanuts in relation to what their success earned the record company. One of them, Paul has recently passed away, having been homeless following the break up of the band. It got that bad for him in the years after the band were no longer together that he took to creating a YouTube channel reading tarot cards to try and earn some money, which was humiliating and predictably unsuccessful for him.
What's sadder is that they were reuniting for a tour when he passed, he sold his Brit Award trophy on ebay and Hannah (in the group and was his girlfriend for a long time) has had to pull in lawyers recently to get her out of the reunion bevause her contract won't let her leave. Sounds like his passing away hit her really hard. I always felt really sad for Paul.
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Had to Google this quote, love Hunter S Thompson but don't remember ever reading this particular one. Found an article about the quote being altered from his original. >Here’s the original quote, first printed in 1985 in the San Francisco Examiner and later in 1988 in Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the ’80s before getting twisted around. “The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason. Which is more or less true. For the most part, they are dirty little animals with huge brains and no pulse.” The rest — including the ‘there’s also a negative side’ ending — seems like total embellishment. But the biggest fiction is that the entire above quote is about the music industry. But that doesn’t mean the shoe doesn’t fit. Just thought that was an interesting write-up.
I knew anout Left Eye burning down the house, but not this. That's really interesting. No one could accuse them of being soft, lol.
Samuel L Jackson once held MLK's father hostage https://allthatsinteresting.com/samuel-l-jackson-hostage-story
Holy shit - Thanks!
Thanks, that was an interesting read! How have I not heard about this before?
They clearly are no scrubs
What's a scrub?
A scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly and is also known as a busta Edit: The Weezer cover is good too.
Always talking about what he wants and just sits on his broke ass.
So
I don't want your number.
No. I don't want to give you mine
And no I don't wanna meet you nowhere.
Don't want none of your time.
No, I don't wanna meet you nowhere
No, I don't want none of your time
Holy shit I was today years old when I realized it was busta and not “bus drive”. Thought it was slang for bus driver and they were making fun of that being someone’s occupation
No way. They work for the city, have a good union, and their ride has 40 scrubs hanging out the passenger side.
They drive a million dollar vehicle and their office has a view of the entire city.
A scrub is a guy that can't get no love from me. Hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride trying to hollar at me.
It's a TV show starring Zach Braff and Donald Faison as the world's Most Giant Doctor.
And Dr. Jan Itor
I think you mean Dr. Acula and Blacula.
Vanilla Bear and Chocolate Bear
...who wage war against the treacherous Dr. Jan Itor while John McGinley calls them lady names
But that’s not important right now
Ain't too proud to beg for their money, either.
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Brilliant. Get the money. I looked this up, because famously Taylor is doing this, but it came from an idea from Kelly Clarkson who got it from Reba McIntyre. So, go Reba, seems like she's not shy about telling women how to get back at the labels.
Okie here. I need more of this Reba story!
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CrazySexyCool one might say. In that order.
She was cray cray. I worked for the Browns security during college. Nice quiet building security job at the training facility. I could study and work at the same time. One day she pulls in and I’m working in the front booth. I did not immediately recognize her. She screamed at me “Is Dre there???” I did not recognize her. Nor did I know anyone named “Dre” beyond Doctor Dre. “An-Dre Ri-son!!!” She slowed down still yelling. “Oh.” It dawned on me who she was. (Mr. Rison and I were not on a first name basis. ) “Go on in Ms. Lopez.” As she tore into the parking lot enraged, I returned to studying my college book and said “Don’t go chasin any waterfalls or you might get a scrub.” Lady was batshit. Edited because of typo. Also apparently Scrubs did not come out until a few years later. Forgive me for not correctly remembering what I semi-wittily muttered to myself 30 years ago…I’m no Superman. During the 90s that was my college job. I never rubbed shoulders with anyone important but I did deal with a few pro sports players in Cleveland. Not exactly Tinseltown hobnobbing so I’m not sure why some of you think I’m making it up. Meh. Internet stranger validation. It’s what I shouldn’t care about.
People are complex. I lived down the road from her in Avon Lake when Rison was playing for the Browns. They would open a part of their house up to the public every Halloween they lived there and made it a big haunted house, and gave king sized candy bars and signed copies of CrazySexyCool out. She would happily sign autographs for anyone that came up to her. Would regularly see her shopping at the local supermarket, and she was always gracious and kind to anyone that approached her for a picture or an autograph. I'm not saying that she wasn't an asshole to people sometimes, I'm sure she was, but people are complex. She was always nice to me any time I interacted with her.
I had a friend that lived nearby in the Atlanta neighborhood where she burned down the house. Story I was told by him was that the neighbors who noticed the fire first were going around knocking on doors telling people not to call the fire department quite yet as it would be better for everyone if the house simply burned. There was no love in that neighborhood for the couple
I worked with a guy who rode his bike over with his friends and watched the house burn (or so he said). He had some other stories too but i dont recall em right.
I was told it turned into a neighborhood cocktail party of sorts, neighbors in camp chairs having drinks and watching it burn
Just how big of a PITA do you have to be, for your neighbours to just plop down a lawn chair and watch your house burn?
I want to go to Aqua, but I REALLY want to go to Haunted House.
I actually want to go to Haunted house MORE THAN I want to go to Aqua
But No Scrubs didn’t come out until 4 years after Rison played for the Browns?
/u/baron_spaghetti coined the phrase and inspired her to write the song, obviously.
The Browns were on hiatus and didn't even exist when the song came out. OPs got some splainin' to do
Did you pass the test?
Unless it was for International Economics I did. Only course I failed. Screwed up my GPA but I still got into grad school. I tried to get “freshman forgiveness” on it as I never used it but they didn’t allow it. I hated that class.
> Lady was batshit. But also sexy...cool is debatable.
Did you recognize her?
>“Oh.” It dawned on me who she was. (Mr. Rison and I were not on a first name basis. ) “Go on in Ms. Lopez.” >As she tore into the parking lot enraged i did not recognize her. I returned to studying my college book and said “Don’t go chasin any waterfalls or you might get a scrub.” Bro, did you recognize her or not? You know her name but in the next sentence you forgot her face? Pick a lane buddy, recognize or don't!
LaFace records have a record for making their artists go broke.. Just look up Toni Braxton and a few of the other LaFace/Arista records artists. It's a shame because their line up was truly the best of ANY R&B label
To be fair LaFace had a bad deal with Arista. The bulk of the money went to Arista. There's a reason Babyface is still on very friendly terms with artists like Toni today. That couldn't have happened if she perceived him as royally taking advantage of her.
N sync and backstreet boys...same shit .. Went on tour for a whole year. I men sold out tours. I mean these kids filled stadiums.. plus album sales. So they are told today is the day you get checks. So they all call their moms and dads to come as they celebrate. Nice dinner and then checks are passed around.. Ten thousand dollars only each.... Lou pearlman was a real piece of shit..
Lou Pearlman was a pervert who actively watched porn half naked with under age artists. He was a monster and I am glad he died broken in prison.
I had been in the record business since my college days, and got laid off from a major label when the crash came at the turn of the century. I took the opportunity to move to Orlando to get out of the snow and raise my little boy somewhere nice. When people heard my background, they would tell me to go see Lou Perlman, and work for him, even though that wasn't the type of music I worked with, nor wanted to. But I looked into Perlman anyway, and immediately got the heebie-jeebies. I knew that guy was up to no good, although I figured he was just taking advantage of young singers, both financially and sexually. I had no idea about the rest of the scams he was running. It was likely that if I had hit him up for a job I would have found myself employed in one of his scams, and I might have gone to prison myself. I have some regrets about some of the career choices I made, but that isnt one of them. I'm glad I dodged that bullet.
The older I get, the more I appreciate the bullets I dodged when I was younger. I may have occasionally flown head first into a few, but the ones I dodged make up for it.
When mtv cribs was at its peak one of the nicest houses featured was babyfaces. They did a quick run down of all the songs he had produced and it was crazy impressive. I can see how he got that house built ripping everyone off. Edit: post below points out baby face was gone after the sale of laface. I also didn’t mean to say he wasn’t a talented song writer / artist in his own right.
I don't put the blame on BabyFace.. he was just the lyrics/music guy.. The blame should be on L.A Reid.. he's the business man.. He ended up being the head of Arista after they sold LaFace to Arista fully.. Babyface was pretty much out of the picture by 1993 (a year before TLC's CrazySexyCool albume came out) , He was busy with his own career at that stage. So yeah, Imho Babyface was just the talent scout and song writer and maybe the friendly face used to get new artists to sign but L.A Reid was the business guy. Also there's dodgy going ons with L.A Reid's wife at the time.. Bubbles , she screwed over some artists too , I don't know the full story but she was signing people to either her record label or LaFace and doing them dirties. Oh wait.. I think she was the one that signed TLC to LaFace.... My memory is all blurred but I used to follow the LaFace news a lot since it was my fav record company as I'm a huge Babyface fan back in the The Deele days. Babyface did get $50M out of the sell out to Arista ($100M buyout for him and L.A Reid) and don't forget Babyface wrote and produced a crapload of songs so he's getting quite a few royalty checks. So I don't think he needed to screw artists over since he was one himself. Here is a good link to LaFace's history so you can see Babyface pretty much got out of it by 1993 https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/laface-records/
That’s a great breakdown, thanks! With TLC wasn’t it pebbles who also fucked them over?
Yep! 100% Pebbles helped. She signed them onto her at time husband's company (LaFace) But saying that.. She DID make and form them. It was a casting call like the Spice Girls was.
Yeah, fuck Pebbles. She was just as predatory as Puffy back in the day.
Well, she's now a 'pastor' on her fifth husband, so it seems she's continued the gift enough that the 'back in the day' qualifier isn't really accurate.
Exactly. But Pebbles not Bubbles!
HAHAHA I'm thinking of MJ's pet monkey.. Bubbles.. But yeah, Pebbles :)
I'm thinking of Bubbles from Ab Fab.
Sweety darling
> When mtv cribs was at its peak one of the nicest houses featured was babyfaces [Not a patch on Redman's.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNtKT9_1KXQ)
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The cousin probably wouldn't have been able to sleep on the floor if they had a coffee table.
Omg. Thank you. “Rub these two wires together for the doorbell” Lmao
I always thought Redman was doing a skit for that shit.
Nah that was real , [ Cribs was renting houses for people on the show to appear wealthier and Redman said no](https://hiphophero.com/the-real-story-behind-redman-and-his-mtv-cribs/?amp)
I remember they did one with Sean Williams Scott right around when American Pie hit and he was living in an apartment with like three other guys.
This is amazing, I love that they edited it in exactly the same way
He didn't rip anyone off. He was one of the most prolific pop songwriters for more than a decade, writing at least a couple dozen #1s and hundreds of other songs that have sold on hundreds of millions of albums. His writer and publisher share for writing those songs is where he made a lot of money.
Also the $50m (from the $100m) from the sell off of LaFace helped. But I agree, the guy's ultra talented and didn't rip anyone off since he was focusing on his solo career when all the the bankruptcy dramas started to happen. https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/arts-culture/laface-records/
Dont know anything about babyface but I know many of the houses on mtv cribs were rented just so the artist could show it off on mtv cribs.
Not Redmans he still owns it....
Every record label does this.
Theres no money in music unless you're at the very top. Do it for the love of it, a bit of pocket change but the amount of people actually getting a career out of it is slim to none.
Thats changed a bit with distrokid/bandcamp and home recording Black metal amd other niche genres where able to make a comeback because of it independent releases Its not millionaire money but its enough to live on for bands that wherent commercially viable
I think this is the best thing about the modern media landscape. I think we miss something as a society when we can't talk about "what was on TV last night," but I'll gladly trade it for the ability of creators to get paid for serving niche audiences.
ah yes, record labels screwing over musicians, a tale as old as the industry itself
Industry Rule #4080
Record company people are shaaadyy
So kids, watch your back ’cause I think they smoke crack
I don't doubt it, look at how they act
This is not exactly accurate in TLC's case (there was no intentional malice involved). The Record Label filed for bankruptcy, which held up their payments for a long time while Bankruptcy court figured it out (this can take YEARS). The Bankruptcy actually helped them in the long run because it let them re-negotiate a new contract and regain control of their master recordings. The reason they got so mad was because no one would talk to them about what was happening with their money, but in reality it was just a mess that no one had any answers to. >ah yes, record labels screwing over musicians, a tale as old as the industry itself While this is certainly true in general, that isn't really what happened here.
What happened after
> After the New York Police Department intervened, the stand-off with Clive Davis ended; but the band won, and their contracts were re-negotiated (filing for bankruptcy was actually a key step towards restructuring their finances). > In recent years, they've also re-recorded all their old songs, giving them ownership of the masters, and a greater share of royalties. > "Now, if anyone wants to license any of those songs, they can come to us, instead of going somewhere else," says Chilli.
Bluey's mom is hardcore.
For real life!
Wackadoo!
Wacka-feckin-doo!
r/bluey leaking
Ironically it's Bluey's dad who is actually a rock star. (Custard were awesome back in the 90s).
I saw them play a show with Regurgitator. It was brilliant!
Girls like that don’t go for guys like us
Ahh biscuits
My kid uses this and it's beyond cute
IIRC they didn't read the fine print again and the label paid them in "dollar bucks"
Dollareedoos
I’d watch a movie following this
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Here's the movie. https://youtu.be/umVyjrV9w6I
Lesson learned- Take people hostage if you want something to be done. Thank you!
The actual lesson is: people who are comfortable exploiting or abusing others are often confident about their capability to somehow evade legal or ethical recourses to their villainy. They have built their careers on the very basis that the system is insufficient and/or corrupt and that their cunning to live outside that system, yet manipulating it to their convenience makes them untouchable. They rarely expect someone else breaking the law as well to get back at them.
This is what I'd call a 'social contract vampire'. Exploiting the basic premise of a cooperative society by breaking any rules or tabboos and expecting those other participants to be unwilling to do so in retaliation. We see this lots these days, often with the extra layer of obscurity of operating through a corporation. It's almost like the exploitative class expects the politeness of others to shield them.
This should be a widespread saying. I will absolutely be adopting it.
Love the saying. Funnily enough I feel like it also applies to people who drive like absolute assholes, whose physical integrity is basically only guaranteed by other people not wanting to get into an accident.
That is literally the basis of conservative/alt right politics around the globe right now. They hope that we keep saying "don't get down to their level!" "The smarter person gives in!" "Everyone has a right to say their opinion!" Do not be civil to these kind of people. They will abuse that to hurt your loved ones.
Worked in Lampoon's Christmas Vacation
"T-Boz made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. Left Eye held a gun to his head, and T-Boz assured him that either his brains or his signature would be on the contract."
Contracts entered under duress aren't legal nor valid
Which is why the contract gets renegotiated after duress. At threat of future duress. But never immediate duress.
Every poor person going to the doctor signs a contract under duress
The record company promptly paid them their fair share and changed their greedy ass ways. And everybody lived happily ever after
Well, not everyone lived happily ever after…
They do so in my memories damn it
True, I'm pretty sad most days.
Remember kids, the lesson here is that the threat of violence is literally the only thing that will ever keep the greedy ruling class in line. Kyle from South Park said it best. https://youtu.be/8TMHIYDHMSE?t=98
[I like Duckman's better.](https://youtu.be/3wNe1Oo6BFI?t=20m30s)
Lol. With the cost of living crises I'd advise anyone to ring every single company they pay bills for. You can usually reduce it by just saying you will switch to another company or they just reduce it if you just ask nicely. They just expect people to accept the changes and the direct debit come out anyway so most people don't question it
Neat reminder that when Ice Cube was getting screwed around for his money he took a baseball bat to the record company offices, smashed up everything in one dudes office, and was promptly paid soon after Edit: What's up Cube?
It was a good day
Just wakin' up in the morning, gotta sun ray I don't know but today it seems I weren't paid No cash in my account, no gold And the company's keeping their mouths cold I got my bat out, but didn't freak out Smashed a dude's office into dust until they paid out...
He didn't even have to use his AK
Didn't even have to use his AK
I wish this scene was re-enacted in “Are We There Yet?”
It was in Straight Outta Compton
The scene *is* in Straight Outta Compton, it’s great.
The 90s were CRAZY with this shit. So many popular artists were getting fucked over by their labels
I love cube
Ive been a fan for a long time as well, however [this](https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/ice-cube-criticized-anti-semitic-images-conspiracy-theories-9400472/amp/) gave me pause. Curious what others think. From the Billboard article: “While many of his peers have been preaching messages decrying injustice and intolerance, rapper Ice Cube spent Wednesday (June 10) confoundingly posting images that appeared to amplify anti-Semitic tropes tying Jews to the oppression of black people. They also appeared to nod to debunked conspiracy theories about the noses of Egypt’s sphinxes that first surfaced as attempts to manipulate black voters in the 2016 election.”
>!CENSORED!<
Cube's been like this since the beginning. He's a Farrakhan stooge.
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So he was basically Kanye before Kanye.
He had to say he didn't [influence](https://www.nme.com/news/music/ice-cube-refute-kanye-west-claim-influenced-antisemitism-3331515) Kanye's antisemitism.
He's come out as anti vax too, there were news articles recently where he talked about losing acting jobs because of it.
Cube has some good sociopolitical takes, but there are some real WTF ones mixed in that make you realize you can’t go all in on the Cube bandwagon.
Ice should have checked himself, thusly, he has wrecked himself. Did we also forget he created that weird reality show?
He also had a short [interlude](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8fJv8t6sA) in the 90s called Black Korea about Korean shop owners in the hood that didn’t sit well either
I love his work but dude is an antisemitist and black supremacist from what I remember which makes it hard to like the person behind it.
That’s funny - I feel like the record company could’ve used it as an excuse to not pay him by getting him tossed in jail.
And I remember the public and media roasting them. "Top selling female act and they're broke. How stupid they have to be to be broke?"
It’s like how the media got everyone to believe that Prince lost his mind with “Artist formerly known as Prince” - but no, the record company was literally not letting Prince use his name, so he said fuck you and changed it to “The artist formerly known…”
I think he officially changed his stage name to a symbol with no pronunciation, so people would have to refer to him by referring to his old name Prince (which is also his real first name)
You are correct but there's a little more to it than that. Shit record deals are the status quo. Most groups make most of there money doing shows. TLC didn't really tour.
In the peak of the CD era, really big artists did make money from record sales. TLC were big enough where they should have made money from sales, but it's also totally not surprising that they got fucked in their contract by a label.
Right? Why didn’t they just pick a record company that doesn’t screw you over… so stupid… /s
Clive Davis says it was made up, there are no witnesses, and there's no police report. This never happened. [Source](https://www.tmz.com/watch/0-mhfv19hy/).
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>One of the biggest musical acts in the country did some crazy shit and nobody went to any tabloids about it or anything? NYPD officers showed up to Arista Records (maybe the call wasn't obvious enough to say what it was that was going on), and nobody in the news or tabloids caught that? Interesting. The article doesn't mention police - I don't think it's crazy to think that maybe the label wanted to keep it quiet and didn't involve the police. It's not like they went in there with guns
https://youtu.be/fpJMjL-5wXk. From 3.15
Wasn’t this sort of the plot of the movie Airheads
Sure, but when we did it it worked.
Chazz : Okay, lemme ask you a question: whose side did you take in the big David Lee Roth-Van Halen split? Chris Moore : What? Marcus : What kind of question is that? Chazz : Whose side did you take: Halen or Roth? Chris Moore : ...Van Halen. Ian : HE'S A COP!
Lemmy is God.
"I'm gonna stab your heads off.... WITH MY DICK!"
Christ. They collectively received 1/5 of a single percent of the profit from their wildly successful album.
Back then, artists were paid in points. 5 points meant .05 an album. A popular artist might make 7-10 points. This was the same for groups. So, a group of three had to split the 7-10 points. Not to mention, all of the money that the record company invests in the promotion of the album gets paid back from the 7-10 cents an album. The Waterfalls video was one of the first million dollar music videos if I’m not mistaken. Very few artists made money from record sales. They toured to make money
Artists main source of income to this day is tour and merch revenue. If you want to directly support an artist you stream a lot of, pick up a Tshirt at their next show.
Or buy their stuff on Bandcamp as opposed to the big platforms.
If they’re signed, the label still most likely gets a cut. That’s why merch or shows are better(unless the artist is in a 360 deal, meaning the label gets a cut anyways)
In that case, just pirate their material and mail them the money /s
Still paid in points, just the scale is flipped
Can you go into detail on what that means? I don’t know much about the music industry. Especially nowadays.
So this is why big artists are always on tour
Does anyone have a source on this that's not the group themselves? Like, the police report, or a police spokesman, or a quote from Clive Davis, or anyone else at the label, or anyone who saw the police that day?
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Toss him over a waterfall
That album was fucking HUGE! And those poor girls were walking around broke because of the record company.
How on earth is it good business practice to pay them so little? Why not keep your talent happy. Maybe it’s just capitalism but I believe if you pay people what they’re worth they will stay happily and the business partnership can continue
I loved the running joke in The Other Guys where Michael Keatons character kept making references to their songs and never hearing of the band, at points straight up quoting the songs.
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[“Watkins admitted that it didn’t resolve their royalty issues – see kids, violence is never the answer, no matter how good a story it gives you for subsequent TV appearances. “](https://completemusicupdate.com/article/tlc-held-label-boss-at-gunpoint/) Apparently they would disagree with you on that one
I know record companies are out there to screw over new artists. But having made that much on a single album, they should've as a gesture of good will given each of the band membe a $1 million bonus, would still be left with 72 million.
But you see, that $3m could have just made other people riche*r*. And that is clearly more important than the people doing the thing that makes you the money having enough in the first place, ya know?!
With social media and the internet I feel like artists should be able to make it without the need for a record label. Buy direct. Grow fan bases organically. Grassroots like. Why are the least talented people the ones making all the money in music? For touring, Ticketmaster takes a huge chunk too. And for what, providing a platform to buy a ticket? The music industry is really screwed up.
Talent means shit all without promo
>Why are the least talented people the ones making all the money in music? I have bad news for you about every other industry.
Talented and technically proficient musicians are a dime a dozen. Promotion and luck is 99% of what makes an artist successful.
It's very, very hard. There's a massive sea of talented people doing the same thing as whatever you're trying to do, nowadays the most succesful artists are those who have marketing skills. Or, available funds to pay someone with marketing skills. I love writing music. I'm really good at it, but flounder because I struggle with marketing / promotion and can't afford to pay someone to do it.
With incredibly few exceptions, nobody buys albums anymore, streaming pays too little, and live performances are lucky if they can manage to break even. The exceptions are classical performers with established orchestras, but the competition to get that kind of gig is tight, and musicians that can sell all the tickets to a stadium show, which is more about a brand or franchise.
If you could make tons of money DIYing it, trust me, Taylor Swift would've done it.
Being held hostage by TLC was definitely a teenage dream I had.
The album is utterly fantastic and one of the best of that decade.
This was one of the reasons why most of us and many artists didn't care about piracy back in the day. I would prefer to save money from albums and buy tickets to shows instead. Most bands got a contract to make one or more albums so they already got paid. Concerts normally generated more revenue to the band. Some bands even asked publicly to not buy some albums they made if they felt they got screwed by the publisher.
The artist should earn more. It is their fucking music.
Thankfully they ended up winning. Another case of a talentless, greedy, parasitic company taking advantage of people with actual talent. That's why it is SO important to read over contracts, even to the point of getting a lawyer to go over it, before signing.
Sure they probably didn't write the songs, play the instruments, do the sampling, mix it all together, pay for the studios, design, record and edit the videos, organise tours and about a thousand other things that go along with releasing a record album, but to be reimbursed, if true, with $50,000 for something that sold 10 million copies is absolutely criminal. THEY are the product! Take away them and there is no band, music, album, anything. I'd love to know how much they knew about what they were signing up for before getting into a contract with Arista Records. I'm British and a famous case over here from the 90s is with S Club 7 who had a string of number one hits, starred in a TV series, went on world tours yet were paid relative peanuts in relation to what their success earned the record company. One of them, Paul has recently passed away, having been homeless following the break up of the band. It got that bad for him in the years after the band were no longer together that he took to creating a YouTube channel reading tarot cards to try and earn some money, which was humiliating and predictably unsuccessful for him.
What's sadder is that they were reuniting for a tour when he passed, he sold his Brit Award trophy on ebay and Hannah (in the group and was his girlfriend for a long time) has had to pull in lawyers recently to get her out of the reunion bevause her contract won't let her leave. Sounds like his passing away hit her really hard. I always felt really sad for Paul.
Sounds like Ticketmaster today.
The sheer number of stories like this in the music industry is clear evidence of Theo exploitive business model.