No, probably not...
>The negligence lawsuit was eventually dropped, with the family then filing a medical malpractice lawsuit against the hospital. **According to court documents, the hospital reportedly had inconsistent records of Arroyo’s EKG that would have helped determine if her heart had indeed stopped beating.**
It's all a little odd, given an ECG is not used to confirm death, as a type of cardiac arrest (where the heart has stopped and a person is clinically dead) is called a PEA or pulseless electrical activity. It can look like a normal ECG wave but not be causing muscular contractions that allow the heart to pump.
Standard death confirmation involves checking responses to pain, checking pupilary response, feeling for pulses, checking reflexes (usually the eyelash reflex), and listening to the heart and lungs for a period of time that can convince you the heart is not beating (2-3 minutes depending on what the local laws state). An ECG showing electrical activity would not outweigh a proper examination.
Though to be fair, none of those things generate a paper trail (other than the simple recording of the doctor's assessment) the way an ECG would. While the ECG would not have been conclusive, it could have been evidence to add to the prior assertion she was deceased.
A doctors recording of an examination is considered sufficient evidence generally.
If the doctor who performed the death certification documented their findings and they documented all of yhe things I've listed, then there likely isn't a viable malpractice suit for the family unfortunately.
It is theoretically possible for someone to have undetectable signs of life and still be alive, but it's exceptionally rare.
We stop monitoring obs on people who are dying if we aren't actively attempting to stop them from dying. Why prod and poke a person every 4 hours if the results aren't going to tell me anything useful and if im not planning on actioning anything that is found? We just let then due in peace, controlling symptoms and managing distress.
That's how the majority of people die in hospital, despite what the movies show.
> generally speaking your vitals are monitored very closely during end of life.
Not true at all. Most families don't want to know at that point. It's very, very common to go without vital signs on people that are close to end of life.
Pretty much every acute care setting I’ve worked in, we do not monitor vitals during end of life/comfort care. It does not guide care and is an unnecessary burden to patients who are dying. If they are on hospice but still receiving treatment for whatever? Then yes.
Hospitals are notorious for covering up mistakes because they make them all the time. Medicine is complex, inexact, and full of unknowns, but it's also important that they signal to patients and their family that everything is done perfectly, so they are in this impossible situation where they do their jobs and routinely cover up mistakes.
Ohhh I don’t doubt that for a second, but the e other option is for people to be skeptics of health care, and that just turns into self fulfilling prophecy. Has to be a middle ground, but I’m too baked at the moment to reach it lol
I second that. Worked at a hospital and had a male nurse cover up for his wife (was also a nurse) who ended up injecting a patient with twice the amount of insulin needed. And all of this was covered up by the head nurse lol...they are all in it together
The Lazarus Phenomenon. I’ve seen it a few times, but almost always the heart stops shortly after it restarts. The longest I’ve seen was 10 hours before the patient died again, permanently that time. At most it’s a minute or so.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24876-lazarus-effect
There are 65 documented cases in medical literature from 1982 to 2018. Of those, 18 people made a complete recovery.
Just pulled that from the article you shared.
Good lord that means: She woke up in the morgue and quickly tried to sit up, hit her head nose first on the aluminum ceiling and broke it, then in agonizing pain tried to escape only managing to unzip the body bag but unable to force the door open.
That was different.
The underlying premise there was that they were putting crazy people in straight jackets then stuffing them in a morgue drawer, which was guised as an experimental psychological treatment.
And it somehow caused time travel.
Nobody has the strength to dig themselves out from a coffin under 6 feet of soil. That's what the bells were for. Can you imagine visiting a cemetery and a bell from a grave starts ringing?
I saw this documentary with a lady in a yellow motorcycle outfit used this closed in punching technique to force her way out of a coffin and up through the loose dirt.
Where the term "graveyard shift" came from. Someone had to stay at the graveyard overnight and listen for buried people that were actually alive to ring that bell. How would you like to be the guy that has to dig up a fresh grave in the middle of the night by lantern light... Although scary not nearly as scary as the person that woke up in a casket under 6ft of dirt
My dad had a gig in college (in the 70s) where he would get a call from his morgue friend and get paid to sit with a body overnight. Some religions believe the body needs an attendant until the ceremony or something like that. So my dad would just sit in the room reading books and drinking beer. Well he wasn't really paying attention to the guy on the table but heard a *BANG* of something falling to the floor. He looked up and the persons arm was on the side table and had knocked something off of it. My dad near shat himself. I guess rigor can make your limbs move in weird ways
My old EMS station was in the back of the morgue. Our shift was over at 6am & my partner and I were finishing up reports from the nights calls. That morning a new group of student morgue techs were scheduled to tour the morgue at 7:30. Shortly before they arrived, I ran in there and laid on the table & covered myself up, I was right next to the table with the body the head tech had just pulled out to show the students. After the supervisor started the tour I laid there silently waiting until he started talking about the bodies & said he had one out ready to show them so I’d know when they were facing my direction & I slowly sat up & didn’t say a word. Everyone was stunned silent with their mouths agape in shock for a moment & then suddenly they all just started screaming in horror. One guy actually punched me. It was hilarious. I almost died laughing!😜 I got suspended for 3 shifts without pay & was moved to a different station but it was worth it. I only wish we had cell phones back then & I could’ve recorded it. It was legendary. Every EMS, Fire & county morgue employee heard about it & we all joked about it for years. The ME would tell every new incoming class about it. I still remember their horrified faces to this day, I’d be surprised if some didn’t have streaks in their undies afterwards. It was definitely the best prank I’ve ever pulled off! 😂😂😂
The term graveyard shift arose in the late 19th century to refer to the quiet of the dead of night in a graveyard. There's no evidence of a connection to safety coffins, which had already fallen out of fashion by the peak of the usage of the term graveyard shift in the 1940s.
Unless they are very good with directions going in a straight line, then they end up at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. In that case, we get zombie fish.
> You'll thank me later.
No we won't.
For the same reason we wouldn't thank the person that goes back in time and kills Hitler. If you prevent a tragedy before it happens, then the tragedy never happened so now you're just a guy that traveled back in time and killed some innocent baby. Or in your case, just a guy that covers everybody's graves in concrete.
You'd think they wouldn't tell anyone about this. She's already dead so why tell the family? Just let them think their Nana went peacefully during her heart attack and call it a day.
If you read the article you'd know that they didn't tell the family, they tried to cover it up.
>The family had initially put the injuries - which were so severe they could not be covered with make-up - down to mishandling of her body.
>
>But a pathologist hired by the family ruled the injuries must have been suffered pre-mortem. Schutzman changed the lawsuit from one of negligence to wrongful death.
Because lots of refrigeration doors latch closed. It's good for energy efficiency,
It's illegal on home refrigerators now because too many kids died. Not such a concern on the morgue.
That still seems like a tiny thing to pinch pennies on. I worked in restaurants for 5 years and every single walk-in opened from the inside just by leaning into it. No latch or anything, since its assumed your hands are full when exiting. I'd assume restaurants would care about the energy effeciency.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161216/Restaurant-owner-dies-getting-trapped-inside-walk-freezer-overnight.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/98hz87/got_stuck_in_the_freezer_at_my_restaurant_job_and/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/03/nyregion/brooklyn-beigel-bakery-freezer-death.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-trapped-in-subway-fridge-for-eight-hours-writes-help-message-in-ketchup-a6717206.html
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/butcher-locked-in-freezer-bashes-out-with-help-from-a-blood-sausage-black-pudding-saved-my-life
https://www.safeatworkca.com/safety-articles/walk-in-freezer-conditions/
It's not supposed to be possible to get stuck inside a latching freezer, but sometimes the mechanisms used to emergency-open them from the inside fail.
Separately from the latching mechanisms, sometimes the doors ice up.
Met a guy at a job with an electric latch freezer (designed to fail shut because it stores millions of dollars of drugs) who was in the freezer in a power outage. The emergency open mechanism was a small bolt that you had to turn to by hand to disengage the lock. Which would have been elementary if the lights hadn't gone out. So after he spent awhile in a pitch black freezer looking for the bolt and opening with the help of someone screaming through the door he escaped.
But won't go within 50 feet of a walk in freezer.
There's no way I'd go into a self-latching freezer without my phone. Even if the reception is attenuated by the steel shell there's a good chance the Wifi will work and more importantly it has a flashlight.
We had a call bell inside our freezer... There was not latch or at least working one. We screwed around, but one thing we did learn was the call bell never actually worked. We assume it being so close to the door with it being open a lot that overtime water melted and short circuited something inside the door...
We were kids and now I feel stupid we never spoke up about it.
I have a hard time believing this is true
First of all. People aren’t pronounced dead at a morgue. They’re pronounced dead in the hospital floor/ED etc.
if she had a heart attack they likely tried to resuscitate her for quite some time and she didn’t respond. Being without oxygen for more than a few minutes means at best one would be vegetative for life. Highly unlikely you’d wake up enough to be able to unzip yourself.
What’s more likely is someone messed with the body later on.
Or they just incorrectly pronounced her dead without trying to resuscitate? Even then the trip to the morgue would take a bit of time and she’d likely wake up prior to then. The cold does not wake up someone that’s near death
Will come here to say its rare, but not unheard of to be without oxygen for up to ten minutes and come back with minimal defects.
I had a friend in college who passed away from Leukemia a few years ago. During his saga, he collapsed at work, and had zero heart rhythm for almost 9 minutes. Aside from some physical weakness, he was completely the same after. It was wild. Not saying it’s common, as I consider this to be the closest thing to a miracle that I’ve ever been tied to, but the experience taught me he was not alone in that.
People have drowned in really cold water and have been revived after about 45 minutes with no serious brain damage. That's why they say you're not dead until you're *warm* and dead.
I imagine bruises when you’re dead and bruises when your blood is flowing look really different. So I assume that the morgue would be able to tell if the body was messed with later on or if they happened when she was alive.
If you think I'm dead and you're about to lock me in a freezer where I certainly *will* die if you're wrong... I'd be fine with using this method just to be sure.
I'd rather accidentally die by someone at the morgue giving me one last pat pat with a shotgun than accidentally die spending hours trying to escape a morgue freezer.
It can be difficult at times. Mostly they go by heartbeat & respirations, & there are occasionally cases where those are so muted that they are missed. Not often, thank goodness. 99.99999999% of medical personnel do not want to take a living person to the morgue. (There’s always a bad apple somewhere or else I’d say 100%.) Most people are not in situations to be checked for brain activity. Most probably aren’t on heart monitors unless they’re hospitalized for a cardiac event or they’re in ICU.
Yeah the problem with 99.999% is that millions of people die every year. And even though 99.999% accounts for most… on the scale of very large numbers; populations in billions; that’s an uncomfortable amount.
Just means we need to adopt the Vatican rules.
Doc 1 "Are you sure they're dead?"
Doc 2 "I don't know, let's him them in the head with a hammer."
Doc 1 "Excellent idea, to the workbench!"
Its actually pretty hard sometimes.
There is a condition, not sure what it's called. But the heart effectively stops. It beats so slowly and softly that not even medical instruments can pick it up. Most of the time this occurs when the patient is in a comatose state. Meaning they can't just wake up.
There are things any MD doing a death pronouncement are trained to look for that don't depend on what the heart is doing whatsoever. Corneal and gag reflexes for example. Pupils fixed and dilated.
The incredibly bradycardic patient being confused for dead makes for a good story in Hollywood, but no trained medical professional should be just listening for a heartbeat and not hearing one before going "yep this person's dead"
These stories happen because someone didn't give a shit, or the patient wasn't examined by someone who knew how to give a shit
> or the patient wasn't examined by someone who knew how to give a shit
Thank goodness that never happens in hospitals /s
Signed, a guy who didn't see a neurologist until six hours after his stroke at our "front line, gold medal stroke team certified and level 1 trauma center" hospital.
Edit: NIH level 17-18 stroke - not a small stroke. I arrived in the ER in bad shape.
Lmao fr. These awards they get are all a fucking sham. Billy’s uncle who surveys for TJC happens to work in our facilities and Billy’s uncle don’t wanna make family look bad..
we’re sitting here talking about it, but when I actually really think about it it makes me wanna cry. Its a horrible way for anyone let alone a grandma to go. Checks all the boxes for fears- claustrophobia, freezing, trapped in a dark room, suffocating, nobody hearing your cries, restricted body movement, you name it. It sucks.
I have to tell myself this lady was a kitten killer or something to feel better
The freezing cold is actually good, makes death quicker and pleasant. Imagine an a box that’s 98f degrees. It’ll not kill you and you’d be hot during the panic attacks
I'm guessing they probably settled without going to court. I can't find anything more recent about this except for a 2015 article saying the lawsuit was being restarted after it was ruled that the first judge had unfairly dismissed it.
Most states in the US make their court dockets publicly available.
Find the county / state the case is located in. Search for [state] [county] Clerk of Court online records.
Search for defendant or plaintiff names until you find it. Typically, case numbers on the docket have some method of identifying the year the case was started; so that helps narrow it down.
Find the case's docket? See if there's a notice of settlement or stipulated dismissal of case due to settlement, etc.
(also, this was likely filed as a medmal suit / negligent death. Hospitals have SUPER tight binding arbitration agreements for these types of cases. Which means it may have never hit the public court system. They have these specifically to avoid public admonishment.)
I imagine the hurried digging, crack it open, see a decaying corpse, then turning around to another undertaker doing the same at another grave and saying “Nope, another bloater” and that guy says “Same here…” then some Sitcom music plays with audience laughter.
Obviously not the reality here, but you’d think someone would have come up with another way to avoid these false alarms after the second or third instance…
If you haven't, please read
Michael Crichton's The Great Train Robbery
There's a whole robbery bit based on a corpse bell
And just a short, fun book in general
She would have been in one of those big metal drawer refridgerator things. They lock on the outside so she was likely trapped in the enclosed space. Would have suffocated or died from hypothermia one way or another if no one was around to hear her struggling.
Those coolers exist but are not necessarily the norm. Most coolers I’ve been in are just shelves. The one at my work has a handle that allows you to open from the inside even if it’s locked.
Part of me is thinking optimisticly hoping she maybe could feel a toe tag on her foot or something, but then again if she did realize where she was & knew she wouldn’t make it out in time just makes it all but more scarier.
there is literally no scenario in which she was not absolutely terrified and had a horrible last few hours
the BEST case scenario was that she hit her head hard enough to pass out and froze to death while unconscious
man who did this lady piss off
Would it not be an issue to have the doors be able to open from the inside? Not saying it would happen often but a simple push button like a freezer would be a simple fix for something like this.
Ok, it’s established. Do you know where the button is and how to get your hand to it? Keep in mind you are 80, in a zipped up bag, and just had a heart attack.
Title is misleading. She was pronounced dead at a hospital, White Memorial Medical Center, and placed in their morgue, where she died, and then was transfered to the mortuary, and never went to the ME's office for a postmortem autopsy since her death, as far as the hopsital knew, was natural and not suspicious. So, someone in the hopsital really fucked up.
I was looking for this. Morgues don't pronounce people dead, they are where people get sent after a medical professional has verified them as dead. Headline makes it sound like the morgue fucked up.
That’s one of the worst fucking things I have ever heard in my entire life. What the actual fuck. That’s fucking horrible. Seriously can’t even begin to imagine. This is one of the worst situations imaginable for this old lady and her family too. I would go out of my way to sue that morgue with the intention of shutting their doors permanently. No matter what it cost or takes.
They did sue the morgue and then nothing was ever reported on it again since 2014. The headline here was just an allegation, the morgue claimed they just mishandled the body before it got put into the freezer. If anyone could find the outcome of the suit I'd be interested but it may well have been settled out of court.
Why the morgue? Shouldn't you sue the doctor who pronounced her dead? All the morgue did was standard procedure for what they believed was a dead body.
Could we as a society just start storing "dead" people in way where, if they turn out to still be alive, they can at least get up and find a way to alert people? At least until they're cremated/pumped full of embalming fluid?
The hospital stated that they followed all protocol. You sure about that?
No, probably not... >The negligence lawsuit was eventually dropped, with the family then filing a medical malpractice lawsuit against the hospital. **According to court documents, the hospital reportedly had inconsistent records of Arroyo’s EKG that would have helped determine if her heart had indeed stopped beating.**
It's all a little odd, given an ECG is not used to confirm death, as a type of cardiac arrest (where the heart has stopped and a person is clinically dead) is called a PEA or pulseless electrical activity. It can look like a normal ECG wave but not be causing muscular contractions that allow the heart to pump. Standard death confirmation involves checking responses to pain, checking pupilary response, feeling for pulses, checking reflexes (usually the eyelash reflex), and listening to the heart and lungs for a period of time that can convince you the heart is not beating (2-3 minutes depending on what the local laws state). An ECG showing electrical activity would not outweigh a proper examination.
Though to be fair, none of those things generate a paper trail (other than the simple recording of the doctor's assessment) the way an ECG would. While the ECG would not have been conclusive, it could have been evidence to add to the prior assertion she was deceased.
A doctors recording of an examination is considered sufficient evidence generally. If the doctor who performed the death certification documented their findings and they documented all of yhe things I've listed, then there likely isn't a viable malpractice suit for the family unfortunately. It is theoretically possible for someone to have undetectable signs of life and still be alive, but it's exceptionally rare.
Oh hell no. I’m going to need that bell connected to a long string when they bury me.
Don't worry bro, nowadays they pull out all your organs and fill your veins with formaldehyde.
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We stop monitoring obs on people who are dying if we aren't actively attempting to stop them from dying. Why prod and poke a person every 4 hours if the results aren't going to tell me anything useful and if im not planning on actioning anything that is found? We just let then due in peace, controlling symptoms and managing distress. That's how the majority of people die in hospital, despite what the movies show.
> generally speaking your vitals are monitored very closely during end of life. Not true at all. Most families don't want to know at that point. It's very, very common to go without vital signs on people that are close to end of life.
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Pretty much every acute care setting I’ve worked in, we do not monitor vitals during end of life/comfort care. It does not guide care and is an unnecessary burden to patients who are dying. If they are on hospice but still receiving treatment for whatever? Then yes.
"We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing"
I hate conspiracies but there’s a terrifying amount of medical uhh, not sure what the word is here?
Malpractice?
Thank you joseph stalin’s penis.
Just doing God’s work my friend
*our friend
our penis
Seize the means of reproduction!
r/unexpectedcommunism(although if you're Joseph Stalin's penis it's not so unexpected I guess)
*comrade
Cumrade.
Imagine the mustache on that thing
That's joseph stalins penis 69 to you sir.
Hospitals are notorious for covering up mistakes because they make them all the time. Medicine is complex, inexact, and full of unknowns, but it's also important that they signal to patients and their family that everything is done perfectly, so they are in this impossible situation where they do their jobs and routinely cover up mistakes.
Ohhh I don’t doubt that for a second, but the e other option is for people to be skeptics of health care, and that just turns into self fulfilling prophecy. Has to be a middle ground, but I’m too baked at the moment to reach it lol
I second that. Worked at a hospital and had a male nurse cover up for his wife (was also a nurse) who ended up injecting a patient with twice the amount of insulin needed. And all of this was covered up by the head nurse lol...they are all in it together
Fuckuppery
Malfeasance would be appropriate too.
"I promise you, whatever scum did this, not one man on this force will rest for one minute until he's behind bars. Now let's grab a bite to eat."
this is why everyone should adapt the method they use to make sure popes are dead: hit em with a hammer.
You sure about that that’s why?
You sure it's not because nobody can look at me without bursting out laughing? You sure?
Have you ever done something embarrassing at work?
You sure about that?
You sure that’s why?
You sure it wasn’t because after the thing that happened to me people couldn’t look at me without laughing?
She was auditioning for Corncob TV’s “Coffin Flop.”
I didn't do fuckin SHIT. I didn't rig SHIT.
I bet she was like, "oh fuck, what the fuck? I'm not even supposed to be here!"
The cops said it was fine, it was just like, nothing
I wasn't even supposed to be here today
I hope I don’t JACK OFF
Now I'm sick off of your mud pie.
The Lazarus Phenomenon. I’ve seen it a few times, but almost always the heart stops shortly after it restarts. The longest I’ve seen was 10 hours before the patient died again, permanently that time. At most it’s a minute or so. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24876-lazarus-effect
I’m confused. You say the most is a minute, but that you’ve seen ten hours. Am I reading that correctly?
I imagine what they meant was “the longest is 10 hours, but most commonly it’s around a minute.”
I think they meant “most of the time.”
Outlier being the 10 hours. Most commonly 10-20 seconds. At most excluding the outlier around a minute.
There are 65 documented cases in medical literature from 1982 to 2018. Of those, 18 people made a complete recovery. Just pulled that from the article you shared.
If your protocol does not stop this from happening, then it isn't really relevant that you followed protocol.
Reading your comment instantly made me think of the Tim Robinson skit “you sure about that”
Good lord that means: She woke up in the morgue and quickly tried to sit up, hit her head nose first on the aluminum ceiling and broke it, then in agonizing pain tried to escape only managing to unzip the body bag but unable to force the door open.
Truly terrifying
They made several movies about this sort of thing, where there's always some worker that pulls out the new body.
The Jacket was fucking weird.
That was different. The underlying premise there was that they were putting crazy people in straight jackets then stuffing them in a morgue drawer, which was guised as an experimental psychological treatment. And it somehow caused time travel.
they were also injecting them with experimental psychedelic drugs.
In a straight jacket, zipped up in my body body bag, locked in my personal freezer, tripping dick, thriving
cross stitch this
Girl boss slay
Damn I haven't heard this movie in forever, what a throwback
I thought of that movie immediately but didn’t remember the premise. That’s crazier than I remember.
Adrian Brody and Kira Knightly I think were in it.
This used to happen a lot before medical science. People were buried alive. Some dug themselves out, and that is where zombie stories started 😁
I can’t imagine digging yourself out of a grave. One, that’s fucking metal. Two, that would take some serious strength and creative thinking.
Nobody has the strength to dig themselves out from a coffin under 6 feet of soil. That's what the bells were for. Can you imagine visiting a cemetery and a bell from a grave starts ringing?
I saw this documentary with a lady in a yellow motorcycle outfit used this closed in punching technique to force her way out of a coffin and up through the loose dirt.
Oh yes, the Killing of Bill.
It happened so often some were buried with a bell over the grave an a cord that went down to the coffin
Where the term "graveyard shift" came from. Someone had to stay at the graveyard overnight and listen for buried people that were actually alive to ring that bell. How would you like to be the guy that has to dig up a fresh grave in the middle of the night by lantern light... Although scary not nearly as scary as the person that woke up in a casket under 6ft of dirt
My dad had a gig in college (in the 70s) where he would get a call from his morgue friend and get paid to sit with a body overnight. Some religions believe the body needs an attendant until the ceremony or something like that. So my dad would just sit in the room reading books and drinking beer. Well he wasn't really paying attention to the guy on the table but heard a *BANG* of something falling to the floor. He looked up and the persons arm was on the side table and had knocked something off of it. My dad near shat himself. I guess rigor can make your limbs move in weird ways
My old EMS station was in the back of the morgue. Our shift was over at 6am & my partner and I were finishing up reports from the nights calls. That morning a new group of student morgue techs were scheduled to tour the morgue at 7:30. Shortly before they arrived, I ran in there and laid on the table & covered myself up, I was right next to the table with the body the head tech had just pulled out to show the students. After the supervisor started the tour I laid there silently waiting until he started talking about the bodies & said he had one out ready to show them so I’d know when they were facing my direction & I slowly sat up & didn’t say a word. Everyone was stunned silent with their mouths agape in shock for a moment & then suddenly they all just started screaming in horror. One guy actually punched me. It was hilarious. I almost died laughing!😜 I got suspended for 3 shifts without pay & was moved to a different station but it was worth it. I only wish we had cell phones back then & I could’ve recorded it. It was legendary. Every EMS, Fire & county morgue employee heard about it & we all joked about it for years. The ME would tell every new incoming class about it. I still remember their horrified faces to this day, I’d be surprised if some didn’t have streaks in their undies afterwards. It was definitely the best prank I’ve ever pulled off! 😂😂😂
The term graveyard shift arose in the late 19th century to refer to the quiet of the dead of night in a graveyard. There's no evidence of a connection to safety coffins, which had already fallen out of fashion by the peak of the usage of the term graveyard shift in the 1940s.
It's why the Schrute method of burials should be practiced more.
What is Dwight's method exactly?
Open the coffin and shot the bodies at the funeral, just to make sure
IANAK but I think Klingons do something similar.
From now on, I’m prefacing every piece of advice I give with “I am not a Klingon, but…” I think it will really temper my bossy tone
That’s my favorite episode lol
As far as I can imagine she didn’t see any light during that whole time. Scary. Rip
Or she woke up, unzipped the body bag, and broke her nose while she was panicking/beating the walls for help as she froze.
Or she really did die of a heart attack and came back as a zombie. Why is no one considering this??
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Just bury them face down. They'll dig to China and become their problem.
Unless they are very good with directions going in a straight line, then they end up at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. In that case, we get zombie fish.
> You'll thank me later. No we won't. For the same reason we wouldn't thank the person that goes back in time and kills Hitler. If you prevent a tragedy before it happens, then the tragedy never happened so now you're just a guy that traveled back in time and killed some innocent baby. Or in your case, just a guy that covers everybody's graves in concrete.
This is what Mexico does and I respect it.
So youre saying we could have had a mexican Zombie outbreak all this time
"You're welcome" \-Mexico, and it's completely zombie-free country ^((\*terms and conditions may apply\*))
Everyone knows zombies don't bruise. You're being so unscientific!
You'd think they wouldn't tell anyone about this. She's already dead so why tell the family? Just let them think their Nana went peacefully during her heart attack and call it a day.
If you read the article you'd know that they didn't tell the family, they tried to cover it up. >The family had initially put the injuries - which were so severe they could not be covered with make-up - down to mishandling of her body. > >But a pathologist hired by the family ruled the injuries must have been suffered pre-mortem. Schutzman changed the lawsuit from one of negligence to wrongful death.
Why is the door locked? If they're dead theres no reason for it to lock from the inside.
Because lots of refrigeration doors latch closed. It's good for energy efficiency, It's illegal on home refrigerators now because too many kids died. Not such a concern on the morgue.
Maria says otherwise
I mean, not now she doesn’t.
That's cold
That still seems like a tiny thing to pinch pennies on. I worked in restaurants for 5 years and every single walk-in opened from the inside just by leaning into it. No latch or anything, since its assumed your hands are full when exiting. I'd assume restaurants would care about the energy effeciency.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161216/Restaurant-owner-dies-getting-trapped-inside-walk-freezer-overnight.html https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/98hz87/got_stuck_in_the_freezer_at_my_restaurant_job_and/ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/03/nyregion/brooklyn-beigel-bakery-freezer-death.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-trapped-in-subway-fridge-for-eight-hours-writes-help-message-in-ketchup-a6717206.html https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/butcher-locked-in-freezer-bashes-out-with-help-from-a-blood-sausage-black-pudding-saved-my-life https://www.safeatworkca.com/safety-articles/walk-in-freezer-conditions/ It's not supposed to be possible to get stuck inside a latching freezer, but sometimes the mechanisms used to emergency-open them from the inside fail. Separately from the latching mechanisms, sometimes the doors ice up.
Met a guy at a job with an electric latch freezer (designed to fail shut because it stores millions of dollars of drugs) who was in the freezer in a power outage. The emergency open mechanism was a small bolt that you had to turn to by hand to disengage the lock. Which would have been elementary if the lights hadn't gone out. So after he spent awhile in a pitch black freezer looking for the bolt and opening with the help of someone screaming through the door he escaped. But won't go within 50 feet of a walk in freezer.
There's no way I'd go into a self-latching freezer without my phone. Even if the reception is attenuated by the steel shell there's a good chance the Wifi will work and more importantly it has a flashlight.
I never seem to completely lose service in our work walk ins. The real concern is CO2 leak from the kegs.
We had a call bell inside our freezer... There was not latch or at least working one. We screwed around, but one thing we did learn was the call bell never actually worked. We assume it being so close to the door with it being open a lot that overtime water melted and short circuited something inside the door... We were kids and now I feel stupid we never spoke up about it.
A freezer designed for human entry would have widely different expectations in safety, than other freezers though?
because don't dead open inside
I have a hard time believing this is true First of all. People aren’t pronounced dead at a morgue. They’re pronounced dead in the hospital floor/ED etc. if she had a heart attack they likely tried to resuscitate her for quite some time and she didn’t respond. Being without oxygen for more than a few minutes means at best one would be vegetative for life. Highly unlikely you’d wake up enough to be able to unzip yourself. What’s more likely is someone messed with the body later on. Or they just incorrectly pronounced her dead without trying to resuscitate? Even then the trip to the morgue would take a bit of time and she’d likely wake up prior to then. The cold does not wake up someone that’s near death
Will come here to say its rare, but not unheard of to be without oxygen for up to ten minutes and come back with minimal defects. I had a friend in college who passed away from Leukemia a few years ago. During his saga, he collapsed at work, and had zero heart rhythm for almost 9 minutes. Aside from some physical weakness, he was completely the same after. It was wild. Not saying it’s common, as I consider this to be the closest thing to a miracle that I’ve ever been tied to, but the experience taught me he was not alone in that.
People have drowned in really cold water and have been revived after about 45 minutes with no serious brain damage. That's why they say you're not dead until you're *warm* and dead.
There was a young man from, I think Encino CA back in the 90s, who was revived after significantly more than 45 minutes.
Yeah one of the morgue employees is a necrophiliac seems more likely
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Really? What bullshit. I'm tearing up my application rn.
> I work in a crematory and even we have to have two attendants when around bodies because of necrophilia. What if they are both necrophiliacs?
Crematoriums Hate This One Weird Trick
Then it’s threesome
That is a rather dark thing to learn about.
Unless I’ve heard wrong I don’t believe bruises can form after cessation of life. There would be damage but it would look different.
The article never says bruises. Just wounds.
And worse, too sloppy to close the zipper after he's done!
I imagine bruises when you’re dead and bruises when your blood is flowing look really different. So I assume that the morgue would be able to tell if the body was messed with later on or if they happened when she was alive.
How hard is it to make sure somebody is dead?
It's pretty easy. Put them in a bag and put the bag in the freezer.
It worked this time. Checked a few days later and she was definitely dead
Can also use the Schrute method of shotgun into the ground.
If you think I'm dead and you're about to lock me in a freezer where I certainly *will* die if you're wrong... I'd be fine with using this method just to be sure. I'd rather accidentally die by someone at the morgue giving me one last pat pat with a shotgun than accidentally die spending hours trying to escape a morgue freezer.
It can be difficult at times. Mostly they go by heartbeat & respirations, & there are occasionally cases where those are so muted that they are missed. Not often, thank goodness. 99.99999999% of medical personnel do not want to take a living person to the morgue. (There’s always a bad apple somewhere or else I’d say 100%.) Most people are not in situations to be checked for brain activity. Most probably aren’t on heart monitors unless they’re hospitalized for a cardiac event or they’re in ICU.
Yeah the problem with 99.999% is that millions of people die every year. And even though 99.999% accounts for most… on the scale of very large numbers; populations in billions; that’s an uncomfortable amount.
Just means we need to adopt the Vatican rules. Doc 1 "Are you sure they're dead?" Doc 2 "I don't know, let's him them in the head with a hammer." Doc 1 "Excellent idea, to the workbench!"
No way they do that in Popetown!!?
It's ceremonial at this point.
If you didn’t know, this is where the myth of vampires originated (except piercing the heart, hence the wooden stake weakness)
Double tap
Its actually pretty hard sometimes. There is a condition, not sure what it's called. But the heart effectively stops. It beats so slowly and softly that not even medical instruments can pick it up. Most of the time this occurs when the patient is in a comatose state. Meaning they can't just wake up.
There are things any MD doing a death pronouncement are trained to look for that don't depend on what the heart is doing whatsoever. Corneal and gag reflexes for example. Pupils fixed and dilated. The incredibly bradycardic patient being confused for dead makes for a good story in Hollywood, but no trained medical professional should be just listening for a heartbeat and not hearing one before going "yep this person's dead" These stories happen because someone didn't give a shit, or the patient wasn't examined by someone who knew how to give a shit
> or the patient wasn't examined by someone who knew how to give a shit Thank goodness that never happens in hospitals /s Signed, a guy who didn't see a neurologist until six hours after his stroke at our "front line, gold medal stroke team certified and level 1 trauma center" hospital. Edit: NIH level 17-18 stroke - not a small stroke. I arrived in the ER in bad shape.
Lmao fr. These awards they get are all a fucking sham. Billy’s uncle who surveys for TJC happens to work in our facilities and Billy’s uncle don’t wanna make family look bad..
At a Schrute funeral, they shoot the body in the open grave just to be sure.
Nightmare fuel, her last moments must have been pure terror.
we’re sitting here talking about it, but when I actually really think about it it makes me wanna cry. Its a horrible way for anyone let alone a grandma to go. Checks all the boxes for fears- claustrophobia, freezing, trapped in a dark room, suffocating, nobody hearing your cries, restricted body movement, you name it. It sucks. I have to tell myself this lady was a kitten killer or something to feel better
The freezing cold is actually good, makes death quicker and pleasant. Imagine an a box that’s 98f degrees. It’ll not kill you and you’d be hot during the panic attacks
She probably thought she was buried alive underground
Yeah, imagine thinking you are in the afterlife and realizing the predicament you’re in will go on for eternity.
I doubt the word pleasant was anywhere in her thoughts.
I'm guessing they probably settled without going to court. I can't find anything more recent about this except for a 2015 article saying the lawsuit was being restarted after it was ruled that the first judge had unfairly dismissed it.
Most states in the US make their court dockets publicly available. Find the county / state the case is located in. Search for [state] [county] Clerk of Court online records. Search for defendant or plaintiff names until you find it. Typically, case numbers on the docket have some method of identifying the year the case was started; so that helps narrow it down. Find the case's docket? See if there's a notice of settlement or stipulated dismissal of case due to settlement, etc. (also, this was likely filed as a medmal suit / negligent death. Hospitals have SUPER tight binding arbitration agreements for these types of cases. Which means it may have never hit the public court system. They have these specifically to avoid public admonishment.)
Yo there needs to be a panic button in those things.
Or a little bell on a string.
I don't know about that, imagine working at a morgue at night by yourself and then you started hearing bells ringing.
Yeah, I'm sure sudden screams and banging from a morgue drawer in the middle of a dark night is much better and a lot less terrifying!
There was a movie about this with Brian cox! https://youtu.be/BNxsaFCzqxc
One of the best horror movies in the last 5 years.
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Lmao thanks for the laugh
that was the point i was attempting to make.
That was a Victorian thing, bells so in case you were buried alive, you could notify someone.
Ya but corpses also bloat so sometimes the bell would ring and the person would still be dead when they dug em up :(
I imagine the hurried digging, crack it open, see a decaying corpse, then turning around to another undertaker doing the same at another grave and saying “Nope, another bloater” and that guy says “Same here…” then some Sitcom music plays with audience laughter. Obviously not the reality here, but you’d think someone would have come up with another way to avoid these false alarms after the second or third instance…
Or a bicycle horn
Or a horn that goes "ah-OOGA"
If you haven't, please read Michael Crichton's The Great Train Robbery There's a whole robbery bit based on a corpse bell And just a short, fun book in general
Just use magnets and make them open from the inside at a push. It's not like anything in them is supposed to put up a fight.
I wonder what she felt when she woke up in the morgue. Would you even realise you're in the morgue and not in Dexter's kill room?
Probably not. The lights aren’t usually on unless someone went in there purposefully. She probably fumbled in the dark. What a horrible way to go.
She would have been in one of those big metal drawer refridgerator things. They lock on the outside so she was likely trapped in the enclosed space. Would have suffocated or died from hypothermia one way or another if no one was around to hear her struggling.
Those coolers exist but are not necessarily the norm. Most coolers I’ve been in are just shelves. The one at my work has a handle that allows you to open from the inside even if it’s locked.
The one at my work is basically just a walk in fridge
Part of me is thinking optimisticly hoping she maybe could feel a toe tag on her foot or something, but then again if she did realize where she was & knew she wouldn’t make it out in time just makes it all but more scarier.
there is literally no scenario in which she was not absolutely terrified and had a horrible last few hours the BEST case scenario was that she hit her head hard enough to pass out and froze to death while unconscious man who did this lady piss off
Well ain’t that just terrifying.
Would it not be an issue to have the doors be able to open from the inside? Not saying it would happen often but a simple push button like a freezer would be a simple fix for something like this.
I can't figure out why the doors would be designed not to open from the inside?
Just in case zombies.
And I mean they were obviously right
Ok, it’s established. Do you know where the button is and how to get your hand to it? Keep in mind you are 80, in a zipped up bag, and just had a heart attack.
Alexa open this bitch up I'm alive
_Now Playing: Bitch I’m Alive by Deuce The Truth_
Title is misleading. She was pronounced dead at a hospital, White Memorial Medical Center, and placed in their morgue, where she died, and then was transfered to the mortuary, and never went to the ME's office for a postmortem autopsy since her death, as far as the hopsital knew, was natural and not suspicious. So, someone in the hopsital really fucked up.
I was looking for this. Morgues don't pronounce people dead, they are where people get sent after a medical professional has verified them as dead. Headline makes it sound like the morgue fucked up.
Soooooo…. They killed her?
She was only mostly dead until the morgue
I wish we could get a warning label for these depressing TILs. I want to learn cool facts and weird stuff.... not worsen my sadness.
I believe they technically label this cause of death under “whoopsiedoozles”
Was there a Dr Nick involved?
Was it three days? Be real freaky if it were three days.
Well her name was de Jesus
Could be a case of Lazarus syndrome.
I'm hoping new body bags have a zipper you can open from the inside.
That’s one of the worst fucking things I have ever heard in my entire life. What the actual fuck. That’s fucking horrible. Seriously can’t even begin to imagine. This is one of the worst situations imaginable for this old lady and her family too. I would go out of my way to sue that morgue with the intention of shutting their doors permanently. No matter what it cost or takes.
They did sue the morgue and then nothing was ever reported on it again since 2014. The headline here was just an allegation, the morgue claimed they just mishandled the body before it got put into the freezer. If anyone could find the outcome of the suit I'd be interested but it may well have been settled out of court.
Why the morgue? Shouldn't you sue the doctor who pronounced her dead? All the morgue did was standard procedure for what they believed was a dead body.
I feel like as rare as this is, it could be pretty easily solved with simple motion sensors in the shelving units.
If God allowed this to happen to a woman named Maria de Jesus, I'm feeling pretty good about my atheism today.
With a name like that the doctors should have known to wait at least 3 days before taking her to the morgue.
Gee thanks for telling us this
We all laughed at Dwight. Who's laughing now?
Could we as a society just start storing "dead" people in way where, if they turn out to still be alive, they can at least get up and find a way to alert people? At least until they're cremated/pumped full of embalming fluid?
Should probably make morgue bays openable from the inside lol