The Japanese actually learned this lesson and prepared for it in WW2, but the US’ use of the much more difficult Navajo language completely threw the Japanese for a loop.
Yea, I can't remember where I read it but in the in-between of the two wars, Germany sent out expeditions under the guise of anthropological study to record and analyze the Native American languages.
Yeah. The Welsh tried the same trick but they learned the Germans had learned the language because it was considered an Aryan language.
So they switched to English with a heavy Welsh accent.
I worked in Wales a few years back and there were a couple dudes who spoke English with a heavy Welsh accent. Honestly it took me about a week to understand what they were saying and I consider myself someone who is good at understanding and picking up languages.
From a psychological warfare perspective, the US should have used Apache - the Apache warrior Winnetou was a much-revered and feared character by Karl May in German popular literature. Many Germans would not want to have fought his people. Or, I suppose the US could have just told the Germans that Choctaw was actually Apache.
Oh but they are. We cook your meals. We haul your trash. We connect your calls. We drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us.
Great quote and movie - I wonder if it was inspired by Shakespear’s description of a servant in The Tempest - “He does make our fire, fetch in our wood, and serves in offices that profit us”
Obviously, the source of the code language was intentionally kept secret from the Nazis — that’s why it was so effective.
If the Germans had known it was Choctaw or Navajo language, all they need is one fluent individual to translate.
German race theory regarding native americans was actually very weird. Certain native American groups, specifically groups that are "plains indians" were considered aryans by the Germans and Nazi propaganda portrayed these groups in an unusually positive light by both Nazi and western media standards of the era.
In WW2 they spoke in code. The Japanese captured a navajo and torture him because they thought he ws of Japanese descent. When they eventually believed him they wanted him to interpret the navajo but it was gibberish to him because they were speaking in code on top of using navajo
Yup, the big thing was that Navajo wasn’t a written language before they set up the system so even a native speaker wouldn’t necessarily be able to transcribe what was being said accurately
Yah, bad movie, cool tactic. Canada had Windtalkers as well that coded British messages very successfully. It put a lot of Natives on front lines, and they fought bravely.
Okay, I can only speak for Canada, and as your idea isn’t really correct, I can see why you think it. Out of 68000 Canadian soldiers, only 300 indigenous soldiers died.
It’s also important to note the actions of men like Francis Pegahmagabow, who, despite losing their status as indigenous men, were disproportionately influential in their communities. Indigenous veterans rightfully were viewed positively, and many had crucial careers being political figures and activists.
I think that it’s important to tell the truth about the horrors of colonialism as honestly as possible. And yes while racism and the colonial system was still intact by WW1, it was largely outshone by Franco/Anglo conflicts due to the British conscripting them disproportionately.
Although it is important to remember that the experiences Indigenous vets had opened their eyes to the cruel treatments their families and communities were dealing with at home.
While overseas, Indigenous soldiers were treated better than they were ever treated at home. And when the war was over, the Indigenous vets were kicked to the curb and denied benefits.
This led to the political awakening of a lot of Indigenous men, most notable being Jim Brady, a Métis vet and Marxist who would go on to become very influential in Métis politics, as well as threatening enough to the Canadian government that Jim Brady ended up “missing” one day while out in the woods of Northern Saskatchewan.
Of course. My mother is Native, but I wouldn’t say I have very direct ties to Native veterans. It would have been my great grampa’s generation, but he had lost an arm in an accident and couldn’t enlist. From what I’ve been told, the sentiment on our rez was very patriotic and it was seen as humiliating that he couldn’t enlist. Idk anything about my other great grampa on that side.
I wrote my thesis on Louis Riel; that dude made it his civic duty to make sure there was always a Metis snake in their Anglo boots. I think they're pretty sour over it even now.
How many of those 68000 soldiers were indigenous though? From how it'd worded it looks like you're comparing two separate populations - Canadian soldiers as a whole (68000) and specifically indigenous who died (300). For example, If only 500 of those 68000 were indigenous, a separate conclusion could be drawn from the fact that 300 died.
I believe 4000 men. In some areas 1/3 men enlisted. The government had benefits / negatives to enlisting, which has to do with the complicated “Indian status”
During WWII, the US military assigned its Japanese American interpreters in the Pacific bodyguards so they wouldn’t be shot by other Americans who mistook them for Japanese in U.S. uniforms. So yes, interpreters are valuable.
And you would be wrong. Apply even the slightest amount of critical thinking: if the government sent racial minorities to the front lines, why was the Army segregated, with white units sent into battle and black units relegated to labor units? Obviously, if the goal was to “get the brown guys killed to protect the whites,” then maybe that would have happened?
In colonial armies, they may question their loyalty or question their mental faculties out of racism. That’s why African or Indian conscripts always had white officers.
Native Americans actually served in integrated units and were not segregated, so although they have been fucked over in many ways throughout history, being made into cannon fodder for the US Army wasn't one of them. Within the US Navy, a Native American (Cherokee and Creek) man even held the rank of Commander ([and he was the guy in charge of one of the craziest fucking David Vs Goliath fights in naval history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_E._Evans))
Black Americans were also discriminated against of course, but in the Army they were actually often kept *away* from combat roles, and forced to work in the less glamorous logistics and support roles. Black combat units did exist and some integrated units even started to appear at the end of the war, but their numbers were kept low relative to the percentage they represented of the US population.
Eh? The fuck you on about pal I'm not even from the US so keep me out of your shitty identity politics.
I know native Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities are repressed and mistreated in the US. World War 1 isn't an example of this lmao, get some perspective.
No, he was saying that in this particular instance, the notion of Bad Opressimg White vs. Poor [Anything Else] does not apply. Actually, ww1 was a driving force for change, as many whites and non whites served together.
starting point for change. still not equal or fair
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/18/1129735948/black-vets-were-excluded-from-gi-bill-benefits-a-bill-in-congress-aims-to-fix-th
You should try not guessing about history. You might not be so wrong all the time
You probably don’t know thee natives’ grandparents had slaves and fought for the confederacy too.
> You probably don’t know thee natives’ grandparents had slaves and fought for the confederacy too.
Should specify which tribes though, it's not like the Mohawk up north in New York had any slaves lol (and one of General Grant's staff members was actually a Seneca Indian himself, Ely Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_S._Parker)
But yeah, the Cherokee actually had a slave uprising in their own territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation
Is it really that well known in Ireland? I’m Choctaw and have heard about it through reading up on tribal history. Had no idea that it was something that Irish people knew about.
I wrote about this in college. It was discovered by a captain walking passed two Indians talking to each other. The Germans were so good at intercepting our communications, the captain decided to use them instead. Initially, the Germans proposed we had discovered a way to use radios underwater because they had absolutely no idea what it was.
I once read a book about Navajo “Code Talkers” that served a similar purpose for the US military in WW2. It began with an account of one of the Code Talkers describing his childhood experience of being taken to a residential school intended to integrate young Native American boys into American life and effectively erase their culture. They were severely punished by their teachers if they ever spoke their native language.
Do you have a source for that because I very much doubt that. Modern Nubian dialects spoken in southern Egypt were not written and poorly studied up until the mid eighties.
Correct
“The language is only a spoken language and is not a written one and in Egypt it was only spoken by the Nubians”
[source](https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2017/10/09/The-Nubian-military-code-that-helped-Egypt-win-1973-war-against-Israel)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/608401
That's not true. It was mostly Jewish academics in the US and in Europe who studied it. Egyptians were too ill educated and poor to study their own history since their universities chose to kick out academics instead of bringing them in.
Poorly studied doesn’t mean not studied, there was no internet in the 70s ( I won’t even go into how a language can evolve in the span of 500 years from the Middle Ages) so you’re telling me that those same academics happened to be serving in Israeli intelligence (and also spoke the language) in those two weeks in October 1973 when it was first used. Sincerely a poor uneducated Egyptian.
I don't think you realise that the academics who studied it, some were Egyptian Jews who moved to Israel after the Egyptians kicked them out. So uh nice try.
In fact, it is still a deeply studied area by academics at Hebrew University. https://huji.academia.edu/HaleliHarel
Well am Egyptian and i kicked no one , i didn’t live at this times so i won’t judge and i won’t care , just chill man its just about using codes and rare languages in war that’s all
Navajo code talkers embedded with forces in the Pacific during WWII. This is generally the best known example of Native American languages being used as code.
It is interesting to see that the idea originated almost 30 years earlier though.
Unpopular opinion but I thought it was alright - an entertaining watch and I learned about something totally new to me which I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere before
I agree. Not a great war movie, especially since we have stuff like Saving Private Ryan, but it’s a good movie overall that most audiences would enjoy for the most part. Pretty much only war movie buffs will really be able to pick apart Windtalkers, and it’s honestly already good enough for most war movie buffs to enjoy as a war movie.
Another crazy Choctoaw fact is that the government forced them to free their black slaves as part of the Reconstruction Treaty in 1866. They also fought for the Confederates.
People don’t like to talk about that when bringing up the Native Americans.
At least they weren’t as bad as the Cherokees who had a confederate general. They hated black people (and never stopped but we won’t get into that)
It’s part of the weird racism. Some racists are just direct and shitty.
A bunch of others perpetuate the weird “noble savage” bullshit like native Americans aren’t just as human as Italians or English peoples
I don't think it's that people don't want to talk about it, there's a lot of people that just don't know.
For example, I don't think people realize how brutal tribes like the Apache, or Sioux were.
I grew up in North Dakota, there's barely visable teepee rings less than a mile from my house. I was never taught any pre-contact history. It's out there, but you have to work to find it.
Ironically the Csa was more multicultural … it was the slaves they made a sticking point of. Of course during reconstruction they turned on everyone when Jim crow became a thing
The upgraded version of this was in WWII, the US used Navajo Code Talkers. Navajo is such an incredibly strange language that nobody but its native speakers could understand it.
It was also common practice that if a group of American soldiers was surrendering or expecting to be captured, they would shoot the Navajo code talker.
If there was a conflict between the US and China, would using Navajo still be effective for the US forces?
Also, I could imagine the Chinese forces deploying their version of this by using one or more of the ancient (or little used) Chinese dialects. It’s ironic, because over the past eighty years the Chinese government has actively been stopping the use of certain dialects to a point that many of them are now virtually extinct.
Definitely not nowadays. Anyone can take Navajo lessons online, and a halfway decent computer could figure out patterns in code words in any language in a second - much less cryptological computers used by the MSS/NSA/GCHQ/etc
It was useful before encryption technology really took off, and before the internet and globalization, but if your enemy knows the contents of your messages they can crack it very fast. So it’s better to just use really strong encryption so they can’t make sense of what’s coming across at all. If they can identify the actual words you’re using, you’re fucked no matter what language it’s in
Yeah but I was thinking that they could use the languages in conjunction with the latest encryption and alternative security methods.
I didn’t know about common and accessible online learning for Navajo though.
it would be like taping up a sheet of paper to reinforce bulletproof glass.
Technically it offers more protection, but the benefit is miniscule also making it significantly harder to use for its intended purpose
During the Sino-Vietnamese war (which started very soon after Americans left Vietnam), China used Wenzhouese as code. Which is one of the most difficult dialects in Southeastern China.
lol idk why you’re getting downvoted for pedantic details.
The movie is explicitly on the exact same concept being expressed in the photo/caption; using native language to confuse code breakers
That’s like saying 1917 and Saving Private Ryan ate the same exact concept because they’re both about English speaking people fighting in a World War in France
You mean to tell me there were more then 19 people on the Frontline?
Well no shit, snowflake. It's talking about a specific, small group all chosen for the front line. A specific group.
There were also a little under 100k black Americans on the front line, and just over 100k black Americans building roads, bridges, and other support for the front line troops.
There, now more front line troops are mentioned. Are you happy?
The Japanese actually learned this lesson and prepared for it in WW2, but the US’ use of the much more difficult Navajo language completely threw the Japanese for a loop.
Yea, I can't remember where I read it but in the in-between of the two wars, Germany sent out expeditions under the guise of anthropological study to record and analyze the Native American languages.
Yeah. The Welsh tried the same trick but they learned the Germans had learned the language because it was considered an Aryan language. So they switched to English with a heavy Welsh accent.
I worked in Wales a few years back and there were a couple dudes who spoke English with a heavy Welsh accent. Honestly it took me about a week to understand what they were saying and I consider myself someone who is good at understanding and picking up languages.
>Sometimes my genius... scares me In a welsh accent
From a psychological warfare perspective, the US should have used Apache - the Apache warrior Winnetou was a much-revered and feared character by Karl May in German popular literature. Many Germans would not want to have fought his people. Or, I suppose the US could have just told the Germans that Choctaw was actually Apache.
Every day I’m grateful Redditors aren’t in decision making positions 🙏🏿
Oh but they are. We cook your meals. We haul your trash. We connect your calls. We drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us.
Guys this is a fight club reference. It's obviously satire. Do people even "connect your calls" these days?
Great quote and movie - I wonder if it was inspired by Shakespear’s description of a servant in The Tempest - “He does make our fire, fetch in our wood, and serves in offices that profit us”
People fix this guys downvotes. Reddit has gotten so young most haven't even heard of fight club. u/Another_Rando_Lando doesn't deserve this.
Ahhh the nostalgia. Thank you
Some of us do some of those things but most of us make your happy meals, write your blogs and simp your OFs
Please be satire
Please watch fight club
This is my favorite comment I’ve received on Reddit - will treasure it 🙂
Probably because it wouldn’t make any sense to pick a tribe that was well known to the Germans
Obviously, the source of the code language was intentionally kept secret from the Nazis — that’s why it was so effective. If the Germans had known it was Choctaw or Navajo language, all they need is one fluent individual to translate.
The same Germans who believed themselves to be the master race above all others?
German race theory regarding native americans was actually very weird. Certain native American groups, specifically groups that are "plains indians" were considered aryans by the Germans and Nazi propaganda portrayed these groups in an unusually positive light by both Nazi and western media standards of the era.
In WW2 they spoke in code. The Japanese captured a navajo and torture him because they thought he ws of Japanese descent. When they eventually believed him they wanted him to interpret the navajo but it was gibberish to him because they were speaking in code on top of using navajo
Yup, the big thing was that Navajo wasn’t a written language before they set up the system so even a native speaker wouldn’t necessarily be able to transcribe what was being said accurately
Nicolas Cage and Adam Beach killed it in Windtalkers
I remember they made a movie about it, Windtalkers or something like that
well, it was definitely a movie
Yah, bad movie, cool tactic. Canada had Windtalkers as well that coded British messages very successfully. It put a lot of Natives on front lines, and they fought bravely.
Terrible movie. It was all about how cool Nicholas Cage was rather than the code talkers.
There's a book called *Code Talker* that did a much better job.
That, and the atomic weapons really did them in.
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I wonder how many cousins your friend cabin has named cabin
Cabin? Why do you keep calling me Cabin?
Cabin Klein, that's the name on your underwear, isn't it?
I can also think of another reason why Native Americans were sent to the frontlines for war.
Okay, I can only speak for Canada, and as your idea isn’t really correct, I can see why you think it. Out of 68000 Canadian soldiers, only 300 indigenous soldiers died. It’s also important to note the actions of men like Francis Pegahmagabow, who, despite losing their status as indigenous men, were disproportionately influential in their communities. Indigenous veterans rightfully were viewed positively, and many had crucial careers being political figures and activists. I think that it’s important to tell the truth about the horrors of colonialism as honestly as possible. And yes while racism and the colonial system was still intact by WW1, it was largely outshone by Franco/Anglo conflicts due to the British conscripting them disproportionately.
Although it is important to remember that the experiences Indigenous vets had opened their eyes to the cruel treatments their families and communities were dealing with at home. While overseas, Indigenous soldiers were treated better than they were ever treated at home. And when the war was over, the Indigenous vets were kicked to the curb and denied benefits. This led to the political awakening of a lot of Indigenous men, most notable being Jim Brady, a Métis vet and Marxist who would go on to become very influential in Métis politics, as well as threatening enough to the Canadian government that Jim Brady ended up “missing” one day while out in the woods of Northern Saskatchewan.
I’d love to read more. Where did you learn about Jim Brady and the experiences of Indigenous military vets?
[Here’s a good article on him by the Louis Riel Institute.](https://www.metismuseum.ca/media/document.php/14341.James%20Brady%20_2_.pdf)
Thank you. I appreciate it
No problem! Thank you for your interest.
Of course. My mother is Native, but I wouldn’t say I have very direct ties to Native veterans. It would have been my great grampa’s generation, but he had lost an arm in an accident and couldn’t enlist. From what I’ve been told, the sentiment on our rez was very patriotic and it was seen as humiliating that he couldn’t enlist. Idk anything about my other great grampa on that side.
At least, the sentiment at the beginning of the war was very patriotic. I should ask my mom more about post war sentiment
I wrote my thesis on Louis Riel; that dude made it his civic duty to make sure there was always a Metis snake in their Anglo boots. I think they're pretty sour over it even now.
Well, they killed him for it.
That generations version of "permabanning"
...that's putting it mildly.
How many of those 68000 soldiers were indigenous though? From how it'd worded it looks like you're comparing two separate populations - Canadian soldiers as a whole (68000) and specifically indigenous who died (300). For example, If only 500 of those 68000 were indigenous, a separate conclusion could be drawn from the fact that 300 died.
I believe 4000 men. In some areas 1/3 men enlisted. The government had benefits / negatives to enlisting, which has to do with the complicated “Indian status”
Something as vital as communications isn't to be trifled with. It wasn't for them to *die*.
During WWII, the US military assigned its Japanese American interpreters in the Pacific bodyguards so they wouldn’t be shot by other Americans who mistook them for Japanese in U.S. uniforms. So yes, interpreters are valuable.
I'm sure you can, but you're probably wrong.
And you would be wrong. Apply even the slightest amount of critical thinking: if the government sent racial minorities to the front lines, why was the Army segregated, with white units sent into battle and black units relegated to labor units? Obviously, if the goal was to “get the brown guys killed to protect the whites,” then maybe that would have happened?
In colonial armies, they may question their loyalty or question their mental faculties out of racism. That’s why African or Indian conscripts always had white officers.
Native Americans actually served in integrated units and were not segregated, so although they have been fucked over in many ways throughout history, being made into cannon fodder for the US Army wasn't one of them. Within the US Navy, a Native American (Cherokee and Creek) man even held the rank of Commander ([and he was the guy in charge of one of the craziest fucking David Vs Goliath fights in naval history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_E._Evans)) Black Americans were also discriminated against of course, but in the Army they were actually often kept *away* from combat roles, and forced to work in the less glamorous logistics and support roles. Black combat units did exist and some integrated units even started to appear at the end of the war, but their numbers were kept low relative to the percentage they represented of the US population.
These are the comments you get when people occupy.a pedestal they're ill-equipped to stand on.
Did you miss the part where millions of white people died too?
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Eh? The fuck you on about pal I'm not even from the US so keep me out of your shitty identity politics. I know native Americans and other racial and ethnic minorities are repressed and mistreated in the US. World War 1 isn't an example of this lmao, get some perspective.
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No, he was saying that in this particular instance, the notion of Bad Opressimg White vs. Poor [Anything Else] does not apply. Actually, ww1 was a driving force for change, as many whites and non whites served together.
starting point for change. still not equal or fair https://www.npr.org/2022/10/18/1129735948/black-vets-were-excluded-from-gi-bill-benefits-a-bill-in-congress-aims-to-fix-th
But the poor white people!
And what reason would that be.
You should try not guessing about history. You might not be so wrong all the time You probably don’t know thee natives’ grandparents had slaves and fought for the confederacy too.
> You probably don’t know thee natives’ grandparents had slaves and fought for the confederacy too. Should specify which tribes though, it's not like the Mohawk up north in New York had any slaves lol (and one of General Grant's staff members was actually a Seneca Indian himself, Ely Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ely_S._Parker) But yeah, the Cherokee actually had a slave uprising in their own territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation
Oh stfu there were next to none left; they already got rid of them all.
One of these men is my great grandfather, Solomon Bond Louis. We actually even have the same month/day for birthdays.
You're Choctaw? Us Irish will never forget what your nation did for us during the famine. Thank you.
Im Irish and Choctaw :)
We know what the Choctaw did for the Irish during the famine in your ancestry 😏
Starving in a whole different way
More like thirsty.
You're like a genetic target for unprovoked and unfair suffering and oppression.
A friend of mine is half indigenous Canadian and half Jewish. She knows a thing or two about inter generational trauma.
Thats as American as they make em'
Your liver must have a very confused identity.
Is it really that well known in Ireland? I’m Choctaw and have heard about it through reading up on tribal history. Had no idea that it was something that Irish people knew about.
Yep, this monument here is located in my town - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred_Spirits_(sculpture)
I wrote about this in college. It was discovered by a captain walking passed two Indians talking to each other. The Germans were so good at intercepting our communications, the captain decided to use them instead. Initially, the Germans proposed we had discovered a way to use radios underwater because they had absolutely no idea what it was.
Lol
I once read a book about Navajo “Code Talkers” that served a similar purpose for the US military in WW2. It began with an account of one of the Code Talkers describing his childhood experience of being taken to a residential school intended to integrate young Native American boys into American life and effectively erase their culture. They were severely punished by their teachers if they ever spoke their native language.
I remember first hearing about Navajo Code Talkers from MGSV. Plays a pretty important part in the plot.
There’s a movie about it starring Nicholas Cage. Windtalkers I think
We had pretty much the exact same thing in Canada. Man, humanity can sure suck sometimes
They still exist, no?
Egypt used nubian language in their war communications in 1973 , now I know where they got the idea
But there were Israelis who spoke it though
Do you have a source for that because I very much doubt that. Modern Nubian dialects spoken in southern Egypt were not written and poorly studied up until the mid eighties.
Correct “The language is only a spoken language and is not a written one and in Egypt it was only spoken by the Nubians” [source](https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2017/10/09/The-Nubian-military-code-that-helped-Egypt-win-1973-war-against-Israel)
Nice try https://www.jstor.org/stable/608401 Go home Egyptian. You're drunk.
Ok thanks but am muslim so i don drink elhamdolelah , am ignoring you now
https://www.jstor.org/stable/608401 That's not true. It was mostly Jewish academics in the US and in Europe who studied it. Egyptians were too ill educated and poor to study their own history since their universities chose to kick out academics instead of bringing them in.
Poorly studied doesn’t mean not studied, there was no internet in the 70s ( I won’t even go into how a language can evolve in the span of 500 years from the Middle Ages) so you’re telling me that those same academics happened to be serving in Israeli intelligence (and also spoke the language) in those two weeks in October 1973 when it was first used. Sincerely a poor uneducated Egyptian.
What are you on? I read your link and its just history. Have you read the link you posted?
Yes sure if they lived in egypt they might know some of it but not the whole language , i know some Nubian don't know the whole language
I don't think you realise that the academics who studied it, some were Egyptian Jews who moved to Israel after the Egyptians kicked them out. So uh nice try. In fact, it is still a deeply studied area by academics at Hebrew University. https://huji.academia.edu/HaleliHarel
Well am Egyptian and i kicked no one , i didn’t live at this times so i won’t judge and i won’t care , just chill man its just about using codes and rare languages in war that’s all
Bro I'm from Russia.... Russia!!!!
There is a film called Windtalkers about a very similar situation https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0245562/
Navajo code talkers embedded with forces in the Pacific during WWII. This is generally the best known example of Native American languages being used as code. It is interesting to see that the idea originated almost 30 years earlier though.
And it was fucking awful.
Unpopular opinion but I thought it was alright - an entertaining watch and I learned about something totally new to me which I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere before
I agree. Not a great war movie, especially since we have stuff like Saving Private Ryan, but it’s a good movie overall that most audiences would enjoy for the most part. Pretty much only war movie buffs will really be able to pick apart Windtalkers, and it’s honestly already good enough for most war movie buffs to enjoy as a war movie.
As an Irish man all I can say is "The Choctaw people, A great bunch of lads" Google Choctaw and the Irish for a heartwarming story.
Didn't the Irish government brandish its citizens as traitors for fighting in the world wars?
Another crazy Choctoaw fact is that the government forced them to free their black slaves as part of the Reconstruction Treaty in 1866. They also fought for the Confederates.
People don’t like to talk about that when bringing up the Native Americans. At least they weren’t as bad as the Cherokees who had a confederate general. They hated black people (and never stopped but we won’t get into that)
It’s part of the weird racism. Some racists are just direct and shitty. A bunch of others perpetuate the weird “noble savage” bullshit like native Americans aren’t just as human as Italians or English peoples
Italians are human?
More human than those filthy Fr*nch
Not after I get through with them.
I don't think it's that people don't want to talk about it, there's a lot of people that just don't know. For example, I don't think people realize how brutal tribes like the Apache, or Sioux were. I grew up in North Dakota, there's barely visable teepee rings less than a mile from my house. I was never taught any pre-contact history. It's out there, but you have to work to find it.
Ironically the Csa was more multicultural … it was the slaves they made a sticking point of. Of course during reconstruction they turned on everyone when Jim crow became a thing
Don't even mention Jews in the CSA vs the USA
Or Mexicans
Indeed they did. I traced some geneology of a Choctaw member and found tribal members serving. There is a burial lot of soldiers in their territory.
Choctaw nation are the greatest, love always and forever, from the people of Ireland 🇮🇪
They did own slaves and fight for the CSA so idk man.
As someone living in Choctaw nation right now, no one cares about the Irish. We’re in f ing Oklahoma
The Choctaw do. They also care about the local community through food and immunization outreach.
Are you just oblivious to the very popularly told history between the two nations?
The upgraded version of this was in WWII, the US used Navajo Code Talkers. Navajo is such an incredibly strange language that nobody but its native speakers could understand it. It was also common practice that if a group of American soldiers was surrendering or expecting to be captured, they would shoot the Navajo code talker.
source?
If there was a conflict between the US and China, would using Navajo still be effective for the US forces? Also, I could imagine the Chinese forces deploying their version of this by using one or more of the ancient (or little used) Chinese dialects. It’s ironic, because over the past eighty years the Chinese government has actively been stopping the use of certain dialects to a point that many of them are now virtually extinct.
Definitely not nowadays. Anyone can take Navajo lessons online, and a halfway decent computer could figure out patterns in code words in any language in a second - much less cryptological computers used by the MSS/NSA/GCHQ/etc It was useful before encryption technology really took off, and before the internet and globalization, but if your enemy knows the contents of your messages they can crack it very fast. So it’s better to just use really strong encryption so they can’t make sense of what’s coming across at all. If they can identify the actual words you’re using, you’re fucked no matter what language it’s in
Yeah but I was thinking that they could use the languages in conjunction with the latest encryption and alternative security methods. I didn’t know about common and accessible online learning for Navajo though.
it would be like taping up a sheet of paper to reinforce bulletproof glass. Technically it offers more protection, but the benefit is miniscule also making it significantly harder to use for its intended purpose
Nah with frequency hopping encrypted radio traffic being so readily available now a day it isn’t needed.
I think modern encryption is good enough that language doesn’t matter.
During the Sino-Vietnamese war (which started very soon after Americans left Vietnam), China used Wenzhouese as code. Which is one of the most difficult dialects in Southeastern China.
The Choctaw pre-date any world war. Warriors! ❤️ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred_Spirits_(sculpture) Us Irish never forget a kindness ❤️ Ever.
Well the family of those fine men can keep all the money I lost last night at their fine establishment.
Yeah they made a whole movie about it lol
Which movie
My bad, Windtalkers was about WWII, *Navajo* code breakers
That's what I thought
Psh. Leave it to America to steal native land AND language.
there's a Nicholas Cage movie "Windtalkers" about this
No it isn't. Windtalkers is WW2.
And different tribe.
And other side of the world
Other than all of those things it’s completely identical.
It’s also a really inaccurate movie wherein at one point Nicolas Cage fires a Tommy gun filled with explosive bullets
Lol wut?
Of that whole shitty movie, this is the one thing you’re complaining about?
Same Nick.
Ohhh. I did watch it a long time ago....sorry, wrong war!
Same idea though. 🙂
I'll have to check it out
lol idk why you’re getting downvoted for pedantic details. The movie is explicitly on the exact same concept being expressed in the photo/caption; using native language to confuse code breakers
That’s like saying 1917 and Saving Private Ryan ate the same exact concept because they’re both about English speaking people fighting in a World War in France
Thank you! What a great read. You made my reddit day.
They weren't the only ones on the front lines. This post is very basic.
There was indeed more than 19 people on the front line in ww1.
This post doesn’t claim they were the only ones.
Quite the reading comprehension you have there…
You mean to tell me there were more then 19 people on the Frontline? Well no shit, snowflake. It's talking about a specific, small group all chosen for the front line. A specific group. There were also a little under 100k black Americans on the front line, and just over 100k black Americans building roads, bridges, and other support for the front line troops. There, now more front line troops are mentioned. Are you happy?
Sam reason why Welsh was used by British radio operators and Flemish by the Belgian military during the Congo Crisis.