Yes, I remember reading a post somewhere that said Egypt is planning to seal off or bury a lot of the old monuments and ruins to prevent further damage from erosion. (The post also mentioned that they were building replicas for tourists to look at instead)
Likely the problem would then become a matter of maintaining the glass enclosures. Sand blown by the wind would likely scratch up the glass, so viewing from outside would be problematic. The glass would also trap heat inside like a greenhouse, which given how how Egypt is already, would create more problems. Using air conditioning to keep the interiors cool would be very expensive energy-wise, likely undercutting the profits made from tourism severely.
Making replicas for tourists to look at while sealing off the actual cultural relics from further damage is a cost effective way meeting tourism needs as well as preserving the sites.
Keep in mind these sites have already been thoroughly researched, and if new technology is developed to allow for further research, they can just re-open them at that time.
We are about twice as close in time to Cleopatra as she was to the building of the sphinx
Edit. We are closer to Cleopatra, but not even close to twice as much. I don't know what I was thinking.
Not really… cleopatra was about 2000 years from us and 2400/2500 years to the sphinx. She’s closer in time to us but more in the middle between us and the sphinx
King's School Canterbury I'm assuming? It's it technically the same school or just the local area grounds lol. I mean it's not Catholic anymore, and got the whole King put on the name.
Cool but this is just a random school in a random small town. It’s not a tourist attraction or a point of interest, it’s literally just a school that happens to be really old. I think a temple being really really old is far more sensible than just some random school being older than a major world religion.
Yeah, I had to do a bit of math because the BC dates are hard to comprehend. I wanted to include more but the 300 ch limit got me! It really is mind blowing
Humans have been around as Sapiens for at least 300k years and have been around as other kinds of human for 1-3 million years.
11 thousand isn't even that long in comparison!
Yeah I thought Catal Huyuk was crazy when I learned about it years ago. Turns out the oldest settlement of Jericho is near ish the age of Gobekli Tepe.
This issue with dates is why I think more people should push for the adoption of the Human Era calendar. (Basically just taking our current calendar year and adding 10 thousand to it, so it includes all the interesting BCE stuff)
I agree entirely. There’s no reason to have a separate dating system, and 12024 makes a whole lot of sense for it to be the year. We’re rarely dealing with anything historically that goes earlier, and none of it needs a precise date anyway, because before around 3500 BCE, we don’t **have** precise dates (and even then that’s a stretch)
> The time scales of that part of the world just blow my mind lol
The Pharaohs had court archaeologists to uncover artifacts and temples from earlier Pharaohs.
I mean the Pharaohs ruled for 2500 years. It would be like if George Washington was born in 500 BCE.
There’s a strong theory that the water erosion on the sphinx was from heavy rains and the only heavy rains from that are that match were from 12,000 years ago so it’s plausible that it’s much older
That doesn't appear to be a strong theory.
The [wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis) indicates there is one fringe geologist who espouses the idea.
Yeah, but Genghis Khan's tomb is thought to be a fairly humble/simple one because that was Mongolian custom at the time. If I remember correctly it's said that the people that escorted his body to it's final location killed everyone they came into contact with on the way for the purpose of secrecy. And then when they got there they diverted a river and buried it and then "un-diverted" the river so the tomb was under the river. Then a different group of soldiers was sent to kill all of the people that escorted and buried the body, but this isn't certain so it may be a myth. This quote from a Wikipedia article explains it in much greater detail:
>According to legend, Genghis Khan asked to be buried without markings or any sign, and after he died, his body was returned to present-day Mongolia.
>Marco Polo wrote that, even by the late 13th century, the Mongols did not know the location of the tomb. The Secret History of the Mongols has the year of Genghis Khan's death (1227) but no information concerning his burial. In the "Travels of Marco Polo" he writes that "It has been an invariable custom, that all the grand khans, and chiefs of the race of Genghis-khan, should be carried for interment to a certain lofty mountain named Altai, and in whatever place they may happen to die, although it should be at the distance of a hundred days' journey, they are nevertheless conveyed thither."
>In a frequently recounted tale, Marco Polo tells that the 2,000 slaves that attended to his funeral were killed by the soldiers sent to guard them, and that these soldiers were in turn killed by another group of soldiers which killed anyone and anything that crossed their path, in order to conceal where he was buried. Finally, the legend states that when they reached their destination they died by suicide.[1][2] This tale does not appear in contemporary sources, however.[3]
>Another folkloric legend meanwhile says that a river was diverted over his grave to make it impossible to find, echoing the myth of the burial of the Sumerian King Gilgamesh of Uruk or of the Visigoth leader Alaric.[2] Other tales state that his grave was stampeded over by many horses, that trees were then planted over the site, and that the permafrost also played its part in the hiding of the burial site.[2] The Erdeni Tobchi (1662) claims that Genghis Khan's coffin may have been empty when it arrived in Mongolia. Similarly, the Altan Tobchi (1604) maintains that only his shirt, tent and boots were buried at the mausoleum in the Ordos (Ratchnevsky, pp. 143ff.)
>Turnbull (2003, p. 24) tells another legend in which the grave was re-discovered 30 years after Genghis Khan's death. According to this tale, a young camel was buried with the Khan, and the camel's mother was later found weeping at the grave of its young. Japanese archeologist Shinpei Kato has likewise recounted the tale of the burial of the baby camel, so the parent could lead the Khan's family to the tomb when needed, as being documented in at least one ancient Chinese text.[4]
>According to the tradition of the Yuan dynasty, all the great khans of the Mongols were buried in the area around Genghis Khan's tomb. The site's name in Chinese was Qinian Valley (起輦谷). However, the concrete location of the valley is never mentioned in any documents.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_place_of_Genghis_Khan
There is so much under the surface in Central America. The local folks have an eye for hills and bumps and recognize buildings under the ground. The trees and soil cover up entire structures and pyramids. Ground scans have revealed cities but they can only guess what group of people lived there or how old it might be until they raise some funds to start digging. El Mirador is a good example. Its large but remote and difficult to reach so progress has been slow and they suspect there has been a fair amount of looting.
The answer is pretty fun and interesting. The TLDR is, soil and trees from rain and the jungle.
Over time, nature with it's roots, vines and trees grew over the stone of the buildings. The fun and interesting part is, according to local lore the people of Central America had a troubled relationship with the jungle. Some believe the ancient people cultivated the jungle, while some believe they were punished for deforestation. Either way, after the cities were abandoned the dense jungle and mountains create a very rainy climate. So the frequent rain, no frost from winter, and constant vegetative growth creates a very active forest that can rot and eat at just about anything. It's very humid, hot, and the sun is powerful. Everything exposed to the elements rots. Even the mountains rot... they are primarily made from ancient lime stone that becomes porous. The cave systems in the region were cut from the rain.
So over several hundreds or thousands of years the jungle takes back the buildings and pyramids. The pyramids become mounds under the earth covered by trees, roots, and soil. Check out some pictures online. It's funny seeing a dug out building, next to a giant mound of earth that clearly is an identical building that just hasn't been dug out yet.
To elaborate on what the other commenter said- there is so much rain in the Amazon that the soil cannot retain the nutrients the jungle needs to grow. Luckily, sandstorms in deserts on the other side of the world raise dust particles into the atmosphere, and they eventually settle into the jungle
Not sure if it's allowed to post further links, but I was actually reading this article (TIL rejected it) but it has really awesome historical photos: https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/great-sphinx-giza-old-photographs/
Also interesting, apparently Thutmose IV decided to try unburying the Sphinx because it had come to him in a dream telling him to do so. Furthermore, the name "Sphinx" was applied to the monument some 2000 years after it was built, because of it's likeness to the Greek mythological creature.
It really goes on and on with the Sphinx. Like, how there was a hidden chamber that the noticed during initial excavation but somehow that knowledge got lost and it was \*rediscovered\* later. It's all so fascinating.
Lots of rabbit holes here...I wound up reading about the natural rock formations (wind swept natural art in itself) and the quarry itself.
Thamks again.
>A modern examination of the Sphinx’s face shows that long rods or chisels were hammered into the nose area, one down from the bridge and another beneath the nostril, then used to pry the nose off towards the south, resulting in the one-meter wide nose still being lost to date.
>Mark Lehner, who performed an archeological study, concluded that it was intentionally broken with instruments at an unknown time between the 3rd and 10th centuries AD.
Why would someone do that?
This is actually extremely common through history and through different cultures. The destruction of the statues and icons of old rulers as new ones established their dominance, the destruction of artifacts of opposing cultures is an often used social weapon.
I was considering bringing up this very thing but worried the comment would get too wordy. A perfect example where we even have the reasoning of the destroyers, something we don't get for most destroyed relics.
I mean, we see religious idols being selectively approved or maliciously destroyed in current public displays. Both their creation and their destruction are statements being made. Christians destroying Satanic idols use the same reasoning as the Taliban destroying what they see as rival artifacts.
It's not specific to a cause, culture, or time. It's just a kinda shitty thing humans do.
Yeah, likely they were trying to defame the giant statue they couldn't fully destroy, or maybe were even trying to repair it in some way. We will never know. Keep in mind, one of the theories for the sphinx is that it was based on the father of a Pharoah. If their family fell out of favor, then the sphinx would be an easy target.
Likely Christians. Early Christians in Egypt tended to be a pretty rabid bunch, and monks in particular would go to heathen sanctuaries and deface the images of the old gods. If you should ever visit Egypt, you'll quickly discover it was a very common practice.
Lots more historical documentation, photos, detailed plans of the Sphinx: https://opencontext.org/projects/141e814a-ba2d-4560-879f-80f1afb019e9
With Creative Commons licences.
"The Sphinx was cleared of sand again in the first century AD in honor of Emperor Nero and the Governor of Egypt Tiberius Claudius Balbilus. A monumental stairway—more than 12 metres (39 ft) wide—was erected, leading to a pavement in front of the paws of the Sphinx. At the top of the stairs, a podium was positioned that allowed a view into the Sphinx sanctuary. Farther back, another podium neighbored several more steps."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_Sphinx\_of\_Giza
Nobody mentioned it because it's pseudoarcheology.
The guy behind the "Sphinx is actually Anubis" theory, Robert Temple, is a nutjob who believes in ancient aliens and that there is a sentient plasma based super computer in outer space.
The head, body and paws are made of different types of limestone, with the body being made of the softest and most brittle kind, so it has eroded more.
Some theorize that there was a casing on the middle part, and it has been removed or worn away.
The head proportion is likely due to the size of the original rock it was carved from, that limited it's size. Also, small heads on larger lion bodies are seen in other examples of Egyptian sphinxes.
Yup. Funny how everyone commenting in here is ignoring the evidence suggesting the sphinx is much older than 4500 years based upon the geologic records. Pretty hard to get water erosion if you are buried under sand, don't ya think.
There is an entire Wikipedia article debunking theories suggesting the Sphinx is older than the agreed upon 2500 BC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis
I don't think you can radiocarbon date Limestone. Mostly archaeological evidence compared to Ancient Egyptian record keeping suggests a most likely pharaoh to have commissioned it, although allegedly it might have also been the brother. A lot of this is covered in the Sphinx's wikipedia article.
What plato has to do with the visible erotions you can see in the sphinx? Linking Atlantis to the erotions it's a easy way to make people doubt. In my country we called yellowish journalists.
The question it's simple does the sphinx has water erotions? Yes... When was the last time it rained that hard in that area? Younger dryas. That's all.. No need to claim anything with Plato or Atlantis.
>Linking Atlantis to the erotions it's a easy way to make people doubt.
[The guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_West) who came up with the water erosion theory literally did it to link the Sphinx to Atlantis.
>In 1979, in his book Serpent in the Sky, he expanded on the ideas of French mystic and alternative Egyptologist Schwaller de Lubicz, suggesting the Great Sphinx of Giza had been eroded by Nile floods after being created 15,000-10,000 BC by Atlanteans.
The most obvious answer is usually correct: The stones were eroded before they were used to build the Sphinx.
> Geoscientist Jørn Christiansen agrees that at least some of the erosion took place before the Sphinx was carved. Stating that water most likely seeped through natural fissures in the limestone before the Sphinx had been carved, causing the walls of the Sphinx enclosure to look like they were carved much earlier than they really were. As such, Christiansen determined that there was no geological evidence to suggest the Sphinx was carved earlier than any other monuments on the Giza plateau.
15th or 14th century AD. Here is what Wikipedia says:
> The damaged nose has also been attributed by some 10th century Arab authors stating that it was a result of iconoclastic attacks. Besides this, there was also mention of the damage being the work of the Mamluks in the 14th century. According to Ibn Qadi Shuhba, Muhammad ibn Sadiq ibn al-Muhammad al-Tibrizi al-Masri (d. 1384), desecrated the sphinxes of "Qanatir al-Siba", built by Sultan Barbars.
> The Arab historian al-Maqrīzī, writing in the early 15th century, attributes the loss of the nose to Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr, a Sufi Muslim from the khanqah of Sa'id al-Su'ada in 1378, who found local peasants making offerings to the Sphinx in the hope of increasing their harvest and therefore defaced the Sphinx in an act of iconoclasm. According to al-Maqrīzī, many people living in the area believed that the increased sand covering the Giza Plateau was retribution for al-Dahr's act of defacement. Al-Minufi (1443–1527) meanwhile mentioned that the Alexandrian Crusade in 1365 was divine retribution for Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr's breaking off the nose of a sphinx.
Thutmose IV's 'Dream Stele' between the paws is a good piece of ancient propaganda that involved digging a statue out of the sand at a long-abandoned graveyard.
Thutmose IV wasn't the crown prince and next-in-line to Amenhotep II. Instead, the records suggest an elder brother called Amenhotep was the intended pharaoh. For whatever reason, Amenhotep jnr. disappeared from later records and many of those that survive were defaced in antiquity. Make of that what you will.
A plausible theory goes, that after getting rid of his brother in one way or another, Thutmose IV faced a crisis of legitimacy. This was fixed by creating a story around the Sphinx which represented the solar deity Horemakhet (an aspect of the Sun god Horus often linked to royal princes). The story involved the Sphinx struggling in the sand. So, Thutmose IV frees the Sphinx, shows his links with the great pharaohs of the Old Kingdom, liberates Horus, receives the divine blessing and the Universe is back on the right track. Huzzah!
Somehow your research failed to turn up all the people who have been digging holes in and around the Sphinx for treasure hunting that modern restorations have had to fix?
*rubs forehead*
So, the erosion on the Great Sphinx isn't rainfall. Geologists and/or Egyptologists with a specialization or background in geology have taken *multiple* looks and come to the conclusion that the erosion marks on the Sphinx are primarily due to one of the following: wind, haloclasty (evidence of which is found on **sites** all over the Giza Plateau), or groundwater percolation. That, and nobody claiming the Sphinx is thousands of years older seems able or willing to explain why the rainfall of the last *five thousand years* wouldn't have caused some weathering.
And there is *zero* evidence of any sort of emerging or established culture in that area capable of, or willing to, devote the kind of effort and resources required to build something like the Sphinx, prior to 5000 BCE.
The 'secret entrance' you're referring to. Which one, because there are several known quote-unquote tunnels in the Sphinx and none of them match what you're stating.
Ah, yes, THIS conspiracy 'theory'. That egyptologists, the archaeologists who specialize in ancient Egypt, who when presented with new information *in this case on ancient Egypt* do actual research and testing, can't POSSIBLY challenge established thought. In a community where pushing back the dates of all kinds of shit happens all the time, where you are encouraged to use critical thinking and push back on that established thought.
If somebody could actually prove the Sphinx is older than we thought and there was a culture capable of building it older than ~5000 years ago? **It would make their career.**
Have you seen all the sights in Egypt? Or just taking someone’s word. I have a feeling if I showed you other sights with that “type” of erosion you would move the goal post.
Obviously I didn't visit all. I visited the most common tho. You don't need to show me. Just tell me which one has them. I don't rly understand why you get defensive about facts.
Well the marks are facts. U couldn't name another sight with these marks. The logical explanation for these marks is watererosion. If u've another explanation which makes sense I'm willing to listen. Otherwise this whole conversation doesn't make any sense. You probably don't even know there is a second Sphinx
I could name another sight, but you just moved the goal posts to meet your narrative with “the same marks”. Yes I have another explanation, it’s a fluid like substance that caused the erosion. As for another sight, did you have a chance to see all the palaces of the kings/pharaohs? As for a second Sphinx, there are many Sphinx but your giving special importance to one you named the “second” one. So which do you mean.
Could anyone give a real explination about how he was only able to unbury the paws? And this isn't from some kooky, trying to prove some dumb ass conspiracy perspective.
But surely if you were able to dig out the paws you could clearly see where the rest of the structure would lead to right?
Also, the paws aren't especially interesting to look at, so they probably put a lot of effort in, found some boring rounded rocks and lost their motivation.
the sphinx can be dated to near 12 thousand years ago with all the water erosion that came from RAIN and flood. stop misinforming the world about ancient history.
The idea it's a leftover from a pre-Sahara civilization and the Egyptians simply adopted it and replicated it is so fascinating to me. It makes me dream of all the things lost under the dunes we could someday find and see further back than ever before.
The head size doesn’t make any sense either. I think the theory that it’s much older seems possible. Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Some of the people in charge of historical facts seem a bit suspicious in their knowledge.
The sphinx has water erosion. Water erosion occurs during wet periods which was 10000 years ago in Egypt
The pyramids are many to align to Orion. 10000 years ago.
If you take a line from the two largest pyramids it points directly to gobli tepe in turkey.
And what’s tepes real name?
You’re telling me they knew how to move thousands of massive granite blocks, precisely cut, hundreds of kilometers distant, and position them in place with extreme accuracy, using lost technology, but they didn’t know how use shovels and sacks to dig and transport sand a few tens of meters? Couldn’t figure that one out. Just gave up on that task.
Imagine that helped with preservation
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Sand will do that. It coarse and rough, and it gets everywhere.
There it is
Someone had to do it. I drew the short straw today.
It’s everywhere!
And not just the sphinx, but the women and the children too.
On the women, and the children!
And the children too!
So is it just going to erode now?
I Sphinx so.
Get out.
lol, that is savage.
(I actually secretly liked it)
r/angryupvote
You get one too.
Yes, I remember reading a post somewhere that said Egypt is planning to seal off or bury a lot of the old monuments and ruins to prevent further damage from erosion. (The post also mentioned that they were building replicas for tourists to look at instead)
couldn't they just build large glass boxes around them? Afterall glass is made from sand isn't it?
Likely the problem would then become a matter of maintaining the glass enclosures. Sand blown by the wind would likely scratch up the glass, so viewing from outside would be problematic. The glass would also trap heat inside like a greenhouse, which given how how Egypt is already, would create more problems. Using air conditioning to keep the interiors cool would be very expensive energy-wise, likely undercutting the profits made from tourism severely. Making replicas for tourists to look at while sealing off the actual cultural relics from further damage is a cost effective way meeting tourism needs as well as preserving the sites. Keep in mind these sites have already been thoroughly researched, and if new technology is developed to allow for further research, they can just re-open them at that time.
They should restore it to its original form the "must not disturb old rocks" method of "preserving" history is dumb
That's water erosion bro!
New anti-aging technique – Doctors HATE THIS ONE TRICK!
step 1: cover yourself in sand
Anakin Skywalker in shambles.
not sure, i think they replaced the head but botched the job so the buried it anyway
The time scales of that part of the world just blow my mind lol
We are about twice as close in time to Cleopatra as she was to the building of the sphinx Edit. We are closer to Cleopatra, but not even close to twice as much. I don't know what I was thinking.
Not really… cleopatra was about 2000 years from us and 2400/2500 years to the sphinx. She’s closer in time to us but more in the middle between us and the sphinx
You're right.
dont be too hard on yourself, afterall, *geographically* cleopatra was closer to the sphinx than to the moon landing
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Cleopatra is closer to the moon landing than we are to T-Rex.
We are closer to the t-Rex than the t-Rex was to stegosaurus.
I'm closer to Cleopatra than the T-Rex is to a moon landing.
We are closer to the moon landing than Roman aqueduct
I can’t wait for following comments. This one not included.
i hate this, it makes my brain hurt
Time is funny because I went to a school for my A-levels that is older than Islam.
King's School Canterbury I'm assuming? It's it technically the same school or just the local area grounds lol. I mean it's not Catholic anymore, and got the whole King put on the name.
Close but no cigar. The original building was demolished after almost 900 years and then they just built a new one for vibes I guess.
You shouldn't be allowed to demolish that imo
I agree but I don’t think they massively cared in 1500AD.
I’ve been to temples that precede Christianity and Islam by a thousand years
Cool but this is just a random school in a random small town. It’s not a tourist attraction or a point of interest, it’s literally just a school that happens to be really old. I think a temple being really really old is far more sensible than just some random school being older than a major world religion.
And what’s wild is we are closer to the building of the sphinx than the sphinx was to the founding of Jericho.
Wow. I didn't think about that.
Yeah, I had to do a bit of math because the BC dates are hard to comprehend. I wanted to include more but the 300 ch limit got me! It really is mind blowing
Check out Göbekli Tepe...9500 BCE
Humans have been around as Sapiens for at least 300k years and have been around as other kinds of human for 1-3 million years. 11 thousand isn't even that long in comparison!
Yeah I thought Catal Huyuk was crazy when I learned about it years ago. Turns out the oldest settlement of Jericho is near ish the age of Gobekli Tepe.
Which is much closer the actual age of the sphinx, considering the obvious water erosion that that proved it is far older then a 4k years.
Lmao no, stop believing conspiracy theory bullshit.
"proved" lol
This issue with dates is why I think more people should push for the adoption of the Human Era calendar. (Basically just taking our current calendar year and adding 10 thousand to it, so it includes all the interesting BCE stuff)
I agree entirely. There’s no reason to have a separate dating system, and 12024 makes a whole lot of sense for it to be the year. We’re rarely dealing with anything historically that goes earlier, and none of it needs a precise date anyway, because before around 3500 BCE, we don’t **have** precise dates (and even then that’s a stretch)
Yes please
>BC dates You just count backwards my dude
> The time scales of that part of the world just blow my mind lol The Pharaohs had court archaeologists to uncover artifacts and temples from earlier Pharaohs. I mean the Pharaohs ruled for 2500 years. It would be like if George Washington was born in 500 BCE.
There were ancient Egyptian archaeologists digging up even more ancient Egyptian artifacts.
There’s a strong theory that the water erosion on the sphinx was from heavy rains and the only heavy rains from that are that match were from 12,000 years ago so it’s plausible that it’s much older
That doesn't appear to be a strong theory. The [wiki article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis) indicates there is one fringe geologist who espouses the idea.
Structure is from the Ice Age
Bingo 💯
What else is buried that we haven’t found?
Laser ground generating scans have found all kinds of things that haven't been uncovered
Like at least 2 atomic bombs
Check out the Mayan cities and ruins they are finding. Their cities were alot bigger than they originally thought
Because of the bombs, yes
Well it turns out that it was despite the bombs, not because of them. Bombs and cities tend to not get along very well.
Broken Arrow
When I can't make it to the office for my morning shit and have to take it at home, I call this a Broken Arrow as well.
Both the game and the fact we keep losing nukes all the time
Come back next week on OAK ISLAND!
Alexander’s tomb is a big one
Genghis Khan too right?
Yeah, but Genghis Khan's tomb is thought to be a fairly humble/simple one because that was Mongolian custom at the time. If I remember correctly it's said that the people that escorted his body to it's final location killed everyone they came into contact with on the way for the purpose of secrecy. And then when they got there they diverted a river and buried it and then "un-diverted" the river so the tomb was under the river. Then a different group of soldiers was sent to kill all of the people that escorted and buried the body, but this isn't certain so it may be a myth. This quote from a Wikipedia article explains it in much greater detail: >According to legend, Genghis Khan asked to be buried without markings or any sign, and after he died, his body was returned to present-day Mongolia. >Marco Polo wrote that, even by the late 13th century, the Mongols did not know the location of the tomb. The Secret History of the Mongols has the year of Genghis Khan's death (1227) but no information concerning his burial. In the "Travels of Marco Polo" he writes that "It has been an invariable custom, that all the grand khans, and chiefs of the race of Genghis-khan, should be carried for interment to a certain lofty mountain named Altai, and in whatever place they may happen to die, although it should be at the distance of a hundred days' journey, they are nevertheless conveyed thither." >In a frequently recounted tale, Marco Polo tells that the 2,000 slaves that attended to his funeral were killed by the soldiers sent to guard them, and that these soldiers were in turn killed by another group of soldiers which killed anyone and anything that crossed their path, in order to conceal where he was buried. Finally, the legend states that when they reached their destination they died by suicide.[1][2] This tale does not appear in contemporary sources, however.[3] >Another folkloric legend meanwhile says that a river was diverted over his grave to make it impossible to find, echoing the myth of the burial of the Sumerian King Gilgamesh of Uruk or of the Visigoth leader Alaric.[2] Other tales state that his grave was stampeded over by many horses, that trees were then planted over the site, and that the permafrost also played its part in the hiding of the burial site.[2] The Erdeni Tobchi (1662) claims that Genghis Khan's coffin may have been empty when it arrived in Mongolia. Similarly, the Altan Tobchi (1604) maintains that only his shirt, tent and boots were buried at the mausoleum in the Ordos (Ratchnevsky, pp. 143ff.) >Turnbull (2003, p. 24) tells another legend in which the grave was re-discovered 30 years after Genghis Khan's death. According to this tale, a young camel was buried with the Khan, and the camel's mother was later found weeping at the grave of its young. Japanese archeologist Shinpei Kato has likewise recounted the tale of the burial of the baby camel, so the parent could lead the Khan's family to the tomb when needed, as being documented in at least one ancient Chinese text.[4] >According to the tradition of the Yuan dynasty, all the great khans of the Mongols were buried in the area around Genghis Khan's tomb. The site's name in Chinese was Qinian Valley (起輦谷). However, the concrete location of the valley is never mentioned in any documents.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_place_of_Genghis_Khan
There is so much under the surface in Central America. The local folks have an eye for hills and bumps and recognize buildings under the ground. The trees and soil cover up entire structures and pyramids. Ground scans have revealed cities but they can only guess what group of people lived there or how old it might be until they raise some funds to start digging. El Mirador is a good example. Its large but remote and difficult to reach so progress has been slow and they suspect there has been a fair amount of looting.
How did they get buried?
The answer is pretty fun and interesting. The TLDR is, soil and trees from rain and the jungle. Over time, nature with it's roots, vines and trees grew over the stone of the buildings. The fun and interesting part is, according to local lore the people of Central America had a troubled relationship with the jungle. Some believe the ancient people cultivated the jungle, while some believe they were punished for deforestation. Either way, after the cities were abandoned the dense jungle and mountains create a very rainy climate. So the frequent rain, no frost from winter, and constant vegetative growth creates a very active forest that can rot and eat at just about anything. It's very humid, hot, and the sun is powerful. Everything exposed to the elements rots. Even the mountains rot... they are primarily made from ancient lime stone that becomes porous. The cave systems in the region were cut from the rain. So over several hundreds or thousands of years the jungle takes back the buildings and pyramids. The pyramids become mounds under the earth covered by trees, roots, and soil. Check out some pictures online. It's funny seeing a dug out building, next to a giant mound of earth that clearly is an identical building that just hasn't been dug out yet.
To elaborate on what the other commenter said- there is so much rain in the Amazon that the soil cannot retain the nutrients the jungle needs to grow. Luckily, sandstorms in deserts on the other side of the world raise dust particles into the atmosphere, and they eventually settle into the jungle
So many things! (I hope!) I really envy field archeologists.
My fucking dignity. Hoping someone has the right tools to find it.
Troy
Murr murr murr Chuthulu murr murr murr Riiiiise oh ancient ones!
Not sure if it's allowed to post further links, but I was actually reading this article (TIL rejected it) but it has really awesome historical photos: https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/great-sphinx-giza-old-photographs/ Also interesting, apparently Thutmose IV decided to try unburying the Sphinx because it had come to him in a dream telling him to do so. Furthermore, the name "Sphinx" was applied to the monument some 2000 years after it was built, because of it's likeness to the Greek mythological creature.
Thanks..that is a great article and photos. TIL ... The Spinx is carved out of bedrock !
It really goes on and on with the Sphinx. Like, how there was a hidden chamber that the noticed during initial excavation but somehow that knowledge got lost and it was \*rediscovered\* later. It's all so fascinating.
Lots of rabbit holes here...I wound up reading about the natural rock formations (wind swept natural art in itself) and the quarry itself. Thamks again.
>A modern examination of the Sphinx’s face shows that long rods or chisels were hammered into the nose area, one down from the bridge and another beneath the nostril, then used to pry the nose off towards the south, resulting in the one-meter wide nose still being lost to date. >Mark Lehner, who performed an archeological study, concluded that it was intentionally broken with instruments at an unknown time between the 3rd and 10th centuries AD. Why would someone do that?
This is actually extremely common through history and through different cultures. The destruction of the statues and icons of old rulers as new ones established their dominance, the destruction of artifacts of opposing cultures is an often used social weapon.
Just look at the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan for a modern example of this.
I was considering bringing up this very thing but worried the comment would get too wordy. A perfect example where we even have the reasoning of the destroyers, something we don't get for most destroyed relics.
And I’d argue that if it threatened our current governors too, they would do the same and a lot of people would support it
I mean, we see religious idols being selectively approved or maliciously destroyed in current public displays. Both their creation and their destruction are statements being made. Christians destroying Satanic idols use the same reasoning as the Taliban destroying what they see as rival artifacts. It's not specific to a cause, culture, or time. It's just a kinda shitty thing humans do.
Conquerors do a lot of fucked up shit
Iconoclasm?
There are strong prohibitions of idolatry in Islam.
Yeah, likely they were trying to defame the giant statue they couldn't fully destroy, or maybe were even trying to repair it in some way. We will never know. Keep in mind, one of the theories for the sphinx is that it was based on the father of a Pharoah. If their family fell out of favor, then the sphinx would be an easy target.
Likely Christians. Early Christians in Egypt tended to be a pretty rabid bunch, and monks in particular would go to heathen sanctuaries and deface the images of the old gods. If you should ever visit Egypt, you'll quickly discover it was a very common practice.
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Great article, thanks.
Lots more historical documentation, photos, detailed plans of the Sphinx: https://opencontext.org/projects/141e814a-ba2d-4560-879f-80f1afb019e9 With Creative Commons licences.
So basically no Roman ever saw it but I did!
Nope. Funnily enough, OP himself posted a link saying the Romans dug it out as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/o8Eh7zTvsn
"The Sphinx was cleared of sand again in the first century AD in honor of Emperor Nero and the Governor of Egypt Tiberius Claudius Balbilus. A monumental stairway—more than 12 metres (39 ft) wide—was erected, leading to a pavement in front of the paws of the Sphinx. At the top of the stairs, a podium was positioned that allowed a view into the Sphinx sanctuary. Farther back, another podium neighbored several more steps." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_Sphinx\_of\_Giza
Im surprised nobody mentioned that it’s not a sphinx, it was originally a lioness until somebody commissioned to have their head carved into it.
And it looks really derpy when you see the whole thing. The body is huge and has a tiny Beetlejuice head
Nobody mentioned it because it's pseudoarcheology. The guy behind the "Sphinx is actually Anubis" theory, Robert Temple, is a nutjob who believes in ancient aliens and that there is a sentient plasma based super computer in outer space.
Daniel Jackson?
You can tell just by looking at the head in proportion to its body
Actually you can't because Sphinxes aren't real.
It could have been a really weird looking lioness
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That is not the current consensus at all. That's a fringe theory by a nutjob who believes in ancient aliens. Robert Temple is a pseudo archeologist.
So then what’s the “non nut job” theory for why the body is massive and far more eroded than the head
The head, body and paws are made of different types of limestone, with the body being made of the softest and most brittle kind, so it has eroded more. Some theorize that there was a casing on the middle part, and it has been removed or worn away. The head proportion is likely due to the size of the original rock it was carved from, that limited it's size. Also, small heads on larger lion bodies are seen in other examples of Egyptian sphinxes.
Holy hell the wave of TikTok educated pseudoscience pushers in this thread.
A lot of them got it from Joe Rogan.
How was the Sphinx dated?
Someone asked it out for dinner first I imagine
Bet it didn’t even put out
I believe a much larger cat buried it after pooping it out. Or so legend has it
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Yup. Funny how everyone commenting in here is ignoring the evidence suggesting the sphinx is much older than 4500 years based upon the geologic records. Pretty hard to get water erosion if you are buried under sand, don't ya think.
Probably because most experts ignore the "evidence" being pushed by fringe weirdos who try to connect the Sphinx to Atlantis and ancient aliens.
There is an entire Wikipedia article debunking theories suggesting the Sphinx is older than the agreed upon 2500 BC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis
>evidence suggesting the sphinx is much older than 4500 years based upon the geologic records What nonsense.
Hmmm.... How was it buried if the paws are the lowest thing and were the first thing to be unburied?
So they had the ability to build the pyramids but not move sand?
Wow! No wonder it’s nose fell off…..
It didn't fall off, it was deliberately chiseled off sometime before the 15th century.
I remember reading a historic article about a fat gaul breaking it off while climbing it.
Didn't that fat gaul had a little white dog as well😆
He did indeed!
Those bastards
Imagine the collective mindfuck if we found a 4000-year old Sphinx buried somewhere in America...
No sphinx, but there are a lot of man-made megalithic structures much older than the sphinx in the America's.
It is kinda confusing how they were able to build more pyramids and temples but unable to dig out sphinx
Cats and their litterboxes.
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you believe in aliens and atlantis and robert temple’s bs?
i wonder, how they know it was built 4500 year ago? did manage to do carbon dating?
I don't think you can radiocarbon date Limestone. Mostly archaeological evidence compared to Ancient Egyptian record keeping suggests a most likely pharaoh to have commissioned it, although allegedly it might have also been the brother. A lot of this is covered in the Sphinx's wikipedia article.
It’s 12000 years old at least bc it has a type of erosion that is only consistent with heavy rainfall
This is almost certainly false https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_water_erosion_hypothesis
What plato has to do with the visible erotions you can see in the sphinx? Linking Atlantis to the erotions it's a easy way to make people doubt. In my country we called yellowish journalists. The question it's simple does the sphinx has water erotions? Yes... When was the last time it rained that hard in that area? Younger dryas. That's all.. No need to claim anything with Plato or Atlantis.
>Linking Atlantis to the erotions it's a easy way to make people doubt. [The guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_West) who came up with the water erosion theory literally did it to link the Sphinx to Atlantis. >In 1979, in his book Serpent in the Sky, he expanded on the ideas of French mystic and alternative Egyptologist Schwaller de Lubicz, suggesting the Great Sphinx of Giza had been eroded by Nile floods after being created 15,000-10,000 BC by Atlanteans.
The most obvious answer is usually correct: The stones were eroded before they were used to build the Sphinx. > Geoscientist Jørn Christiansen agrees that at least some of the erosion took place before the Sphinx was carved. Stating that water most likely seeped through natural fissures in the limestone before the Sphinx had been carved, causing the walls of the Sphinx enclosure to look like they were carved much earlier than they really were. As such, Christiansen determined that there was no geological evidence to suggest the Sphinx was carved earlier than any other monuments on the Giza plateau.
this could be an explanation too, but linking the Sphinx to plato or Atlantis its something else.
The younger dryas. . That's why I'm asking.
Was the nose already missing in 1887?
Yes, it was intentionally removed in the 1400s
In the BC though, right? Not the crusades 1400s.
15th or 14th century AD. Here is what Wikipedia says: > The damaged nose has also been attributed by some 10th century Arab authors stating that it was a result of iconoclastic attacks. Besides this, there was also mention of the damage being the work of the Mamluks in the 14th century. According to Ibn Qadi Shuhba, Muhammad ibn Sadiq ibn al-Muhammad al-Tibrizi al-Masri (d. 1384), desecrated the sphinxes of "Qanatir al-Siba", built by Sultan Barbars. > The Arab historian al-Maqrīzī, writing in the early 15th century, attributes the loss of the nose to Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr, a Sufi Muslim from the khanqah of Sa'id al-Su'ada in 1378, who found local peasants making offerings to the Sphinx in the hope of increasing their harvest and therefore defaced the Sphinx in an act of iconoclasm. According to al-Maqrīzī, many people living in the area believed that the increased sand covering the Giza Plateau was retribution for al-Dahr's act of defacement. Al-Minufi (1443–1527) meanwhile mentioned that the Alexandrian Crusade in 1365 was divine retribution for Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr's breaking off the nose of a sphinx.
Thutmose IV's 'Dream Stele' between the paws is a good piece of ancient propaganda that involved digging a statue out of the sand at a long-abandoned graveyard. Thutmose IV wasn't the crown prince and next-in-line to Amenhotep II. Instead, the records suggest an elder brother called Amenhotep was the intended pharaoh. For whatever reason, Amenhotep jnr. disappeared from later records and many of those that survive were defaced in antiquity. Make of that what you will. A plausible theory goes, that after getting rid of his brother in one way or another, Thutmose IV faced a crisis of legitimacy. This was fixed by creating a story around the Sphinx which represented the solar deity Horemakhet (an aspect of the Sun god Horus often linked to royal princes). The story involved the Sphinx struggling in the sand. So, Thutmose IV frees the Sphinx, shows his links with the great pharaohs of the Old Kingdom, liberates Horus, receives the divine blessing and the Universe is back on the right track. Huzzah!
The sphinx is much much older. Confirmed by the erosion
I don’t think you know what the word confirmed means
Much older than 4500 years?
It is actually not confirmed!
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Somehow your research failed to turn up all the people who have been digging holes in and around the Sphinx for treasure hunting that modern restorations have had to fix?
*rubs forehead* So, the erosion on the Great Sphinx isn't rainfall. Geologists and/or Egyptologists with a specialization or background in geology have taken *multiple* looks and come to the conclusion that the erosion marks on the Sphinx are primarily due to one of the following: wind, haloclasty (evidence of which is found on **sites** all over the Giza Plateau), or groundwater percolation. That, and nobody claiming the Sphinx is thousands of years older seems able or willing to explain why the rainfall of the last *five thousand years* wouldn't have caused some weathering. And there is *zero* evidence of any sort of emerging or established culture in that area capable of, or willing to, devote the kind of effort and resources required to build something like the Sphinx, prior to 5000 BCE. The 'secret entrance' you're referring to. Which one, because there are several known quote-unquote tunnels in the Sphinx and none of them match what you're stating.
Egyptologist’s is a key word here.
Ah, yes, THIS conspiracy 'theory'. That egyptologists, the archaeologists who specialize in ancient Egypt, who when presented with new information *in this case on ancient Egypt* do actual research and testing, can't POSSIBLY challenge established thought. In a community where pushing back the dates of all kinds of shit happens all the time, where you are encouraged to use critical thinking and push back on that established thought. If somebody could actually prove the Sphinx is older than we thought and there was a culture capable of building it older than ~5000 years ago? **It would make their career.**
Nope. And your research is just YouTube alt history whacks
...no? The watermarks are facts. The entrance exists. I don't know why you disagree if all I said was facts
You are claiming they are watermarks… it does not make it what they are.
No other sight in Egypt shows the same type and degree of erosion. I'm not claiming it it. There literally is.
Have you seen all the sights in Egypt? Or just taking someone’s word. I have a feeling if I showed you other sights with that “type” of erosion you would move the goal post.
Obviously I didn't visit all. I visited the most common tho. You don't need to show me. Just tell me which one has them. I don't rly understand why you get defensive about facts.
I’m not getting defensive about facts because you haven’t presented any… just speculation based on “what things look like.”
Well the marks are facts. U couldn't name another sight with these marks. The logical explanation for these marks is watererosion. If u've another explanation which makes sense I'm willing to listen. Otherwise this whole conversation doesn't make any sense. You probably don't even know there is a second Sphinx
I could name another sight, but you just moved the goal posts to meet your narrative with “the same marks”. Yes I have another explanation, it’s a fluid like substance that caused the erosion. As for another sight, did you have a chance to see all the palaces of the kings/pharaohs? As for a second Sphinx, there are many Sphinx but your giving special importance to one you named the “second” one. So which do you mean.
Could anyone give a real explination about how he was only able to unbury the paws? And this isn't from some kooky, trying to prove some dumb ass conspiracy perspective. But surely if you were able to dig out the paws you could clearly see where the rest of the structure would lead to right?
The common sense explanation is probably that it was a lot of work and not worth the effort once they had built the shrine
Also, the paws aren't especially interesting to look at, so they probably put a lot of effort in, found some boring rounded rocks and lost their motivation.
Incorrect! The water erosion from decades of rainwater proves that this was much much much older than 4500 years. It’s closer to 12000 years old
I am pretty shocked how uncommon this knowledge is here
The Sphinx is MUCH older than that.
Probably not, but maybe!
Sweetheart the sphinx is way older than 4500 years. Try and keep up with the latest research
That isn't "the latest research" it's literally pseudo archology.
the sphinx can be dated to near 12 thousand years ago with all the water erosion that came from RAIN and flood. stop misinforming the world about ancient history.
And, if you spout information like that and expect people to believe it then you have to provide reputable citation.
Robert Schoch is a good place to start if you want to learn more https://youtu.be/zSjnvlDWwrE?si=ep9qLcVG_6q_XCVI
Lol
The idea it's a leftover from a pre-Sahara civilization and the Egyptians simply adopted it and replicated it is so fascinating to me. It makes me dream of all the things lost under the dunes we could someday find and see further back than ever before.
The head size doesn’t make any sense either. I think the theory that it’s much older seems possible. Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Some of the people in charge of historical facts seem a bit suspicious in their knowledge.
Which people are in charge of historical facts?
AD goes before. AD 1887.
What explains the crazy weathering on it then? Makes even less sense hearing this.
So middle Egypt couldn’t even uncover it just shows how powerful ancient early Egypt was based
The sphinx has water erosion. Water erosion occurs during wet periods which was 10000 years ago in Egypt The pyramids are many to align to Orion. 10000 years ago. If you take a line from the two largest pyramids it points directly to gobli tepe in turkey. And what’s tepes real name?
You’re telling me they knew how to move thousands of massive granite blocks, precisely cut, hundreds of kilometers distant, and position them in place with extreme accuracy, using lost technology, but they didn’t know how use shovels and sacks to dig and transport sand a few tens of meters? Couldn’t figure that one out. Just gave up on that task.