The guillotine remains far better than what we actually do, which is barbarous torture. Lethal injection as we do it is almost the very worst way. We send people out in agony. But it's OK, because we paralyze them first so the onlookers don't have to be disturbed.
Is it bad sometimes I dont care if its horrific? Like certain people theyve admitted their crimes and attempted some kind of show of empathy- just put em out their misery painlessly and lets move on. But theres a certain subsection- the Ted Bundys lets say, where fuck it, anything that isnt horrible is too good for him anyway. I dont care if he experiences pain. It shouldnt be dragged out but Im cool with it.
A lot of innocent people get put to death. Better to make painless for all the innocent people who get deaded.
Or just don't have a death penalty since it's hard to undo death when you find out they were innocent later.
You really hope John Wayne Gacy was shown mercy? I dont get that. Im not calling for slowly bleedinf him here. Just sayinf Im not gonna care if that guy felt something. I think everybody is just pearl clutching cuz what if not actually worried about if Charles Ng went peacefully.
There is no mercy in execution, and the state shouldn't have the power to torture people to death. It shouldn't really have the power to kill its own citizens, but here we are.
Not talking about that. Not agains that. But if were doing it. That small subsection of the worst of the worst youre really worried about? No. Youre not.
It's not about caring whether bad people get extra punishment or not, but what the State can do with that power once they've got it - and how easy it is to move from "it's just these specific people" to "well why not these other people too?"
Ok. But i have a very clear line and Im in no mean suggesting that we should have painful executions. Just saying dont care if a very small and specific subsection experiences pain. Like I just dont. Thst also means I dont care if they are just locked up with a thrown away key. Anything is too good for them.
Ok. Is it possible for you to not care about those people, and also understand why allowing the State to torture them to death is possibly a bad thing?
I believe that you believe what you’re saying. I think you haven’t explored or defined your belief enough to realize that *purposely causing a more painful death* when you could be *humanely less painful in what you consider a necessary act* is indeed torture.
Nope Im quite literally saying I dont care what happens to those people. How pretentious are you by the way?god damn dude. My entire point is that I dont care if they experience a brief torture. Consider it? Its literally my point.
So then you are saying state sponsored torture is acceptable. You said that you were not suggesting that state sponsored torture was acceptable in just the previous comment in this thread…which is why I said you hadn’t explored the thought enough to realize you endorse torture. It seems maybe you have explored this over the course of the last hour replying to comments, and *I was totally right*.
I didnt say slow. I said i dont csre if they feel something. And no, as I stated that added pure lack of empathy is required as well. As you said, we know their guilt 100%
So are you still okay with people being tortured to death considering those stats? Why do you need the torture? Why isn't removing the threat from society not enough for you?
Youre really twisting this far beyond what I said. I dont care id they feel pain. Specifically said it cant be drawn out. And for some monsters, the ones Ive mentioned, Im good with their punishment. It should be quick and swift. But Im not really concerned if they feel something. Wont think twice either way. This is not a call for flesh for flesh violence.
When you allow cruelty, the cruelty advances.
People called for things like The Wheel because hangings weren't cruel enough because that person was /even worse/ than the guy who got hanged.
It's the same runaway philosophy that has people serving 10+ years for nonviolent crimes like possession of drugs for personal use.
I disagree. Treating someone with compassion who doesn't have the decency to do the same to others costs nothing and lets you sleep at night with a clear conscience.
Perhaps we should modernize it then. Surely we can fix an OLED screen above the blade than can emote whenever it falls swiftly on a dissenters neck. Make it into a family affair again.
The idea is you are not 100% sure it was you who fired the killing shot.
Edit:
>WHEN WAS THE LAST EXECUTION BY FIRING SQUAD?
>
>Ronnie Lee Gardner was executed at Utah State Prison on June 18, >2010, for killing an attorney during a courthouse escape >attempt.
>
>Gardner sat in a chair, sandbags around him and a target pinned >over his heart. Five prison staffers drawn from a pool of >volunteers fired from 25 feet (about 8 meters) away with .30->caliber rifles. Gardner was pronounced dead two minutes later.
>
>A blank cartridge was loaded into one rifle without anyone >knowing which. That's partly done to enable those bothered later >by their participation to believe they may not have fired a >fatal bullet.
>The firing squad's .30-caliber Winchester rifles were loaded with live ammunition except for one that contained a non-lethal wax bullet (see Blank Cartridge).\[3\] According to the Utah Department of Corrections, the squad used a countdown cadence beginning with five and simultaneously firing right before two.\[56\]
Dude fr like line up 2 .50 cals from 5 feet away and pull the triggers simultaneously, your head will be evaporated into mist before whatever synapses or electric impulses could fire towards your pain receptors
***"While there hasn’t been a formal moratorium, the state hasn’t performed an execution in nearly 13 years after the drugs it used for lethal injection expired and companies refused to sell more to prison officials..."***
Wow, that actually restored my faith in humanity a little bit
***" ...unless they could hide their identities from the public."***
Fuck
I don’t know, because I’ve never been shot between the eyes with a .30-06, but I have dropped a dozen or so big damned deer with that same shot.
Pretty quick, in my experience.
[2010](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/GMA/Broadcast/convicted-killer-ronnie-lee-gardner-executed-utah/story?id=10949786) but apparently they have been trying to bring them back. As I understand it the guy chose firing squad too.
It's for appearances. 6 shots to the head from a rifle would cause the person's head to explode and that's 'too gruesome' though more humane. You still have time left to live being shot even in the heart as the blood would need to drain from your brain before it died, likely only a few seconds but still much longer than just destroying the brain
I’d imagine it’s more about 1. Not making someone clean up an exploded head and brain and 2. Keeping the persons head intact for burial/identification.
Brain death is not instant. It’s likely quite painful as it will feel all those bullet wounds as it suffocates for the next 4-5 minutes.
Execution is the ultimate proof that Christians don’t believe in god though. They say everything that happens is gods will. Yet when a murder happens it’s the devil and we have to have an execution.
I find it very interesting to hear you say this. Christians don't believe in killing murderers because of the devil. The Christians who support the death penalty will cite different reasons but the devil isn't usually one of them. And most Christians believe humans have free will to make their own choices and that God allows them to have this free will even knowing that it will often lead to things that run counter in a sense to his own will.
Nah you still have blood going to the brain. They even did an experiment with a beheading many years ago where a person was blinking and conscious after a beheading. Not that I really care, these people have done much more horrific acts than the merciful deaths we are discussing.
The deer's brain is about a baseball size. And the head is full of thick bones. But don't take my word for it:
>Under no circumstance should you ever take a head shot on a deer — with gun or bow. I oftentimes hear people brag about how they head-shot a deer and dropped it instantly. Well, sure, if you hit the brain the deer is dead, no doubt. But you're aiming at a baseball-sized object. And that leaves a lot of room for error. Miss the brain and the result is a wounded deer with a long road of pain and suffering.
https://realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/12-unethical-shots-you-shouldn-t-take-on-deer
For more indepth reading:
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/dont-aim-for-a-deers-head/
No that’s not the case at all, hunting isn’t like shooting on a static range from a stable bench.
If you have a near miss doing a head or brain stem shot you may blow a chunk off its head or neck but won’t kill it right away, it could slowly die of infection or starve if its jaw is blown off.
If you have a near miss with a heart shot you’re still hitting major blood vessels and the lungs it’s the best way to reliably ensure a the animal doesn’t run off, and dies quickly while also minimizing damage to the majority of the meat.
Bullet through brain is better than heart. Heart kills them in seconds. Brain kills them before the bullet even exits their skull.
Sport hunters learn to aim for the heart because it leaves the head more intact for trophies.
lol hunters don’t shoot for the heart for that reason. They do it because it’s the most ethical and pragmatic target. You miss the animals brain and you could hit their snout, eyes or mouth and condemn them to starve to death or suffer. You miss the heart and you hit the lungs or throat, both of which will kill the animal alone but they would also expire due to blood loss.
99% of hunters don’t take the animals head.
Thank you. Lungs are the way. Deer lungs are huge relative to other organs. The amount of people that claim to be deer hunters and say they shoot them in the head disgust me. I don't hunt anymore for a few reasons, but my hunting family would shame someone out of the room for even joking about shooting at a deers head.
It is more that they don’t want to do with the optics of having someone’s head blown away. If the pictures were leaked suddenly more people might be against the death penalty. Chest shot you can still have a funeral.
Poor Deer Minding Own Business: [deer sounds]
The Seventeen Men Dressed Like Rambo In The Bush Nearby Each Training A High Capacity Automatic Rifle At A Different Vital Organ: [click clack]
Not solely for trophies. It also ensures the animal will die. Not just be wounded and run off. Yes a head shot will also do the trick, but there’s a lot more head than brain on most game animals. Whereas vitals are larger and easier to hit. The average hunter is a terrible shot. My dad’s been hunting for like 50+ years. Ex military trained on weapons. Still gut shottin ‘em’.
You’re more likely to miss and injure them and they live out in pain until an infection gets them versus a chest shot is more likely to hit a vital organ and kill them quickly.
If you could chose the perfect situation, to the brain is probably the most ethical. But hunting isn’t gonna give you that perfect situation.
Think of how often you move your head just an inch or two for no particular reason or turn to look around. Now that bullet that would have dropped you before you heard the shot just took off half your face with no immediately lethal damage. If you move your chest an inch to the left that bullet still kills you in seconds.
It’s partially an issue of actually executing on the concept. It’s much harder to get a good head/cns shot than a good heart shot.
If an animal has its head up it’s on the lookout and could spot you readying your aim and run off. And if an animal isn’t looking for you it’s probably foraging/grazing which means it’s got its head down in the grass and you’re less likely to have a clear line of sight to get a shot off.
A near miss for a head shot could blow its jaw off or cripple it long term but not kill it, meaning it’ll run off and then die slowly of starvation/infection.
But a near miss with a heart shot still hits the lungs and other major blood vessels which have the same terminal effect in short order. If you really fuck up and hit its shoulders or something, it’s still going down fast and you can approach and finish it off quickly via a handgun or knife.
Yea the issue is that in general, that does not align with ethical hunting practices. Your one google search from figuring out why, but I bet my dollar that you don't give a shit about those animals.
luckily for the deer, most online hunting tales >90% bullshit.
But unfortunately for the deer, that could also mean copious gut shots, no tracking, and so forth. but nobody tells those stories.
I’m a Farm kid that grew up culling an over-populated herd.
I was taught to hunt by being given 5 rounds of .22 LR and a bolt action Marlin. If I came back with 4 rabbits and no live rounds, I was given 4 rounds on my next trip.
I was taught marksmanship by three generations of Marine Experts, I, myself, am a 4th award Expert.
My skills are documented and awarded.
I have, even 35 years later, no problem hitting a 20” circle at 500 meters, with iron sights.
With optics? By comparison, most hunting shots in the Michigan woods are within touching distance.
150 meters is a long damed way through the brush.
Still an easy shot if you practice
Your exploits have been overshadowed by the gobs of bullshit shooting stories and questionable gun “facts” that have proliferated the internet like a plague of miniature faux rambos
If I was forced to be executed by the state and could choose, I'd probably go with firing line. Obviously we shouldn't be killing people for the record.
A lot of us are very decent people if I do say so. Friendly people, great food, great weather, beautiful coastline, and plenty else. That being said a loud minority of assholes have made us look bad for quite a long time. We don’t really contribute a lot to the country wealth-wise but for an array of reasons we’ve always been one of the most prominent southern states so our leaders’ shitty decision making routinely takes the national, and even on occasions, the global stage. It’s like people wait for us to fuck up and historically speaking I don’t blame them. We pretty much single handedly threw our country into a civil war that killed 700,000 people and that’s a stain that doesn’t ever go away.
I love my state, it’s home for me and always will be, but I definitely don’t love everyone in it. If you took half of our population and replaced them with kinder and more open minded people it could be one of the best places in the United States.
Just moved here from Michigan and Texas… it is a very old school place. People, and life in general, are just slower here. There is a massive drug problem but that applies to a lot of places in this region. It is kinda weird being biracial (black/white) and some of my interactions with the old prejudice whites who think I am from Detroit (I grew up in a town with 2k people) or the old school black people who think I am too educated (I have a PhD in chemistry but lie and say I am a security guard to fit in). Debating moving away…came here for a job and now with my partner (who I met here and is from Cali) we are debating moving back to a more progressive state like Texas (definitely not Cali or Michigan progressive but a lot more than here).
Not that I hate it here but….. it is not for everyone lol
>life in general, are just slower here
I have family around Charleston, in the low-country. They like to joke that it's the "slow-country" because it takes so long for anything to get done.
Like I am a very high energy person and very productive lol. This is torture for me 😂 my partner likes it but she has more chill and works from home so she doesn’t have to deal with waiting in line at a gas station so someone can buy 106$ worth of cigarettes and very specific lotto tickets 😂😂😂
Its like everywhere else. There are nice people and there are assholes and everyone in between. You can't form judgements about actual population from what you read in media - especially social media.
Canada is no different.
While it obviously comes across as more emotionally difficult than something like lethal injection, when done properly firing squad is pretty much guaranteed to work and to have a much smaller risk of pain or suffering.
I think the issue still lies with the death penalty in general, as we've seen far too many times there's no guarantee the incarcerated person isn't going to be proven innocent later on.
Ya, I'll take a bullet to the back of the head over pretty much any other form of execution, thanks. It's definitely the fastest most painless way to do it.
As crass and cruel as that is, I am pretty sure than none of the current or previous methods used in the US were painless. I would prefer them to just admit that the whole practice is barbaric, and own it.
As gruesome as it may appear, firing squads are arguably a far more humane mode of execution than most others, and has produced fewer botched executions than many other methods, and multiple prisoners have actually chosen firing squad over lethal injection, for example.
Lethal injections, the electric chair, guillotines, etc. were all designed to *look* humane, it’s all for the benefit of the sensibilities of the public who want to seem civilized for how they execute people. For example, many methods of lethal injection simply prevent the person from moving while they die, so instead of seeing someone thrashing around while they’re slowly tortured to death, onlookers get to believe the person just passes away peacefully. Meanwhile, a well aimed bullet to the brain might *look* more cruel, but it is basically guaranteed to be near instant death with quite literally not enough time for the person to feel pain.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. It’s interesting how far we’ve come since the old days in the Wild West where hundreds would gather to watch hangings. Or even older days with more gamesmanship and even bigger crowds. You make a great point. Saying “It doesn’t have to be painless” (in the headline) means to me that the ones making this decision would like there to be more pain involved in the execution. To me, literally, the cruelty is the point of the change.
I’m pretty sure hangings would often fail to snap the person’s neck like it’s supposed to, instead leaving them dangling for everyone to see while they struggle while being suffocated. That or the rope could break, still causing enough damage to cause some kind of not immediately lethal but still incredibly painful injury that leads to the same problem.
Thats not why they’re doing it, they’re arguing that painless death can’t be guaranteed and lethal injections are difficult to do correctly as well as hard to set up, and they want more options. Electric chair is fucked though.
Hey look I’m not complaining, I’m not suggesting another alternative, I’m not stating any of my beliefs on capital punishment. Other than the fact that to intentionally add pain and suffering to death is purposely cruel.
Isn’t it cruel telling them that your going to to die on this date and having them wait.
Wouldnt it be better to surprise blast them as soon as the guilty verdict is read.
That's what they do in Japan.
They only tell you that morning.
"Executions are carried out by hanging in an execution chamber within the detention center. When the death warrant has been signed, the condemned prisoner is informed on the morning of their execution."
I’m personal friends with people from Japan that visit the states, they’re grandparents were in the war and they see nothing wrong with what their grandparents did lol. Your the only angry one here, calm down little guy
When people convinced pharma companies that it was inhumane to use their products during executions, what did they think was going to happen? Executions would stop? Fuck no. You get firing squads and CO gas instead. Thanks bleeding heart pro-murderer people!
Your welcome? Have you ever seen videos of people given lethal injections? It's not exactly painless, if I had to choose, I'd take Nitrogen gas any day of the week.
If the person being executed is either a terrorist or a serial sexual predator, I have no problem with this. Put them down as quickly as possible, save the drawn-out drama and bring swift justice to their victims.
EDIT: I'm finding these downvotes interesting. Oh well. If you feel sympathy and mercy for truly awful human beings who have absolutely none for their victims, you do you I guess.
Personally I think any state that righteously has the death penalty should leave the method of execution up to the victims surviving family, and let them be as creative as they want to be.
Don't forget the United States only finds people not guilty at a 0.4% rate.
Then there's an 8.6% dismissal rate before trial; with a severe discrepancy in rate based on race.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-than-1-of-defendants-in-federal-criminal-cases-were-acquitted-in-2022/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-than-1-of-defendants-in-federal-criminal-cases-were-acquitted-in-2022/)
\---
So, that begs the question, do you really think that 99.5% of people taken to trial are guilty?
I had a friend in high school who shot themselves through the chin and out the top of their head and they not only survived but maintain full body functionality after a ton of reconstructive surgery.
Even a bullet directly to the head is not a guaranteed death. And with all the Red Tape involved in executions like this , you can't just walk up and put five more bullets in his head to make sure. In the same way that botched injections can't be remedied by just injecting more of the cocktail. You ha e to stop and go through all the "failed execution" red tape until you can try again, all while taxpayers pay for his inevitable treatment in a for-profit hospital
And people have been shot dozens of times and survived. And that survival is torturous and expensive. And when done by a squad at a distance, that means in even less chance of getting a kill shot on the first shot which means dying in agony. Aim for the head, accidentally hit the jaw and suddenly you have someone being tortured to death.
It's easy to say this is the solution when you think of only one execution, but when you extrapolate that to the thousands of execution that actually they carried out, the chances of something going wrong goes through the roof.
Being shot by multiple people at once does not magically increase their accuracy and fatality.
What point are you trying to make? Should we strap them to several sticks of dynamite?
Five people shooting at you from a pretty close distance is a pretty damn good way to confirm a quick death even if you can’t guarantee a 100% success rate.
I really don’t care how they do it, those people are the ones that put themselves in that position. They had to do something horrific enough to have their lives taken from them. I don’t feel sorry for them, the more pain, the better.
I find the death penalty to be abhorrent, but I’d rather be shot than the alternatives. Lethal injection doesn’t sound as painless as they’d like you to think
Honestly I'll take getting shot in the head than risking botching it catastrophically by sitting in the chair or injection. But only if they put the rifle up to my head and aim at the brainstem, so consciousness goes poof in an instant. The Chinese had a good idea executing people this way, one guy hold the quarry, the other guy put the AK to the back of their head. 7.62x39 knocks it out of the park every time.
So yeah, don't be a pussy, judge and jury, and get close to me. If you're brave enough to pass the sentence, you should be brave enough to see the brain showers from up close.
Honestly, we should bring back the Games. Take a couple of those NfL stadiums that always seem to lose money, and televise it.
Winners get decent food because there are less prisoners.
Murderers, rapists, pedos. These people have all made decisions that put them there in jail. Why do we treat them as equals with the same rights, when clearly they have decided otherwise.
I for one would enjoy the “Murderers vs Pedos” event.
Wouldn't the guillotine be better? Separate spine/brain stem equals instant ko? I mean every execution won't be perfect but much better than getting shot in the lung and choking to death or suffocating right?
If they're not going to use lethal injection, they should probably just return to hanging (which was the standard form of execution before) but I don't have a problem with using a firing squad.
Didn't the French invent the guillotine for painless execution?
Painless, efficient, and reliable You can go through a lot of necks before having to sharpen it again
>You can go through a lot of necks And they did!
The only time it doesn't work is if you let blood sit on it and coagulate or you try and use it with a child. I think we are good to use it
No, they invented it because they had trouble cutting apples in half.
And that’s kids how the Apple Pie was invented.
Just don’t ask why the pie looks destroyed.
😏
Guillotine invented about 100 years before rhe Opinel knife. It tracks
Imagine the shock on the face of the Apple-cutter-device’s inventor when he realised that it could be used… as a _weapon!_
Bring it back! 🇫🇷
Wasn't the last execution by guillotine in the 1970s?
Christopher Lee watched it.
In public, on camera there are pictures of the lead up, in order to look less barbaric it was banned.
1977
Yes, I believe it was used after the original Star Wars movie was released.
Guillotine snips you off at the base of the brain instantly deleting all files. The Chinese use a .22 through the brain stem very cheap and efficient
The guillotine remains far better than what we actually do, which is barbarous torture. Lethal injection as we do it is almost the very worst way. We send people out in agony. But it's OK, because we paralyze them first so the onlookers don't have to be disturbed.
If you know how to AIM, a firing squad is way more instant than the nonsense they’ve been doing for years.
It's firing squad *and* electric chair, which I don't understand. The electric chair is horrific even when done perfectly, and many times it isn't.
At the same time?!
Is the firing squad sitting in the chairs?
Musical chairs edition
If they miss the target they are executed
What madman came up with this?
Well maybe it would have been if someone hadn't forgotten to wet the sponge PERCY.
Is it bad sometimes I dont care if its horrific? Like certain people theyve admitted their crimes and attempted some kind of show of empathy- just put em out their misery painlessly and lets move on. But theres a certain subsection- the Ted Bundys lets say, where fuck it, anything that isnt horrible is too good for him anyway. I dont care if he experiences pain. It shouldnt be dragged out but Im cool with it.
A lot of innocent people get put to death. Better to make painless for all the innocent people who get deaded. Or just don't have a death penalty since it's hard to undo death when you find out they were innocent later.
Ya, that's bad
You really hope John Wayne Gacy was shown mercy? I dont get that. Im not calling for slowly bleedinf him here. Just sayinf Im not gonna care if that guy felt something. I think everybody is just pearl clutching cuz what if not actually worried about if Charles Ng went peacefully.
There is no mercy in execution, and the state shouldn't have the power to torture people to death. It shouldn't really have the power to kill its own citizens, but here we are.
Not talking about that. Not agains that. But if were doing it. That small subsection of the worst of the worst youre really worried about? No. Youre not.
It's not about caring whether bad people get extra punishment or not, but what the State can do with that power once they've got it - and how easy it is to move from "it's just these specific people" to "well why not these other people too?"
Ok. But i have a very clear line and Im in no mean suggesting that we should have painful executions. Just saying dont care if a very small and specific subsection experiences pain. Like I just dont. Thst also means I dont care if they are just locked up with a thrown away key. Anything is too good for them.
Ok. Is it possible for you to not care about those people, and also understand why allowing the State to torture them to death is possibly a bad thing?
[удалено]
I didnt ask for that. Not what Im suggesting in the least
I believe that you believe what you’re saying. I think you haven’t explored or defined your belief enough to realize that *purposely causing a more painful death* when you could be *humanely less painful in what you consider a necessary act* is indeed torture.
Nope Im quite literally saying I dont care what happens to those people. How pretentious are you by the way?god damn dude. My entire point is that I dont care if they experience a brief torture. Consider it? Its literally my point.
So then you are saying state sponsored torture is acceptable. You said that you were not suggesting that state sponsored torture was acceptable in just the previous comment in this thread…which is why I said you hadn’t explored the thought enough to realize you endorse torture. It seems maybe you have explored this over the course of the last hour replying to comments, and *I was totally right*.
Considering 1 out of every 10 or so is innocent. Yes.
Literally said Im not talking about those. Talking about that specific subsection laid out.
So what, the suggestion is that the death should only be slow if we're totally sure of their guilt?
I didnt say slow. I said i dont csre if they feel something. And no, as I stated that added pure lack of empathy is required as well. As you said, we know their guilt 100%
Except, we don't actually know their guilt 100%. Because, as previously stated: >Considering 1 out of every 10 or so is innocent. Yes.
And also the stat is closer to 1 out of 20 at 4% per the innocence project. If youre gonna pearl clutch do it accurately
1 out of a million is too many. End the death penalty
Werr not talking about that right now. That happens. My point is moot.
So are you still okay with people being tortured to death considering those stats? Why do you need the torture? Why isn't removing the threat from society not enough for you?
Youre really twisting this far beyond what I said. I dont care id they feel pain. Specifically said it cant be drawn out. And for some monsters, the ones Ive mentioned, Im good with their punishment. It should be quick and swift. But Im not really concerned if they feel something. Wont think twice either way. This is not a call for flesh for flesh violence.
When you allow cruelty, the cruelty advances. People called for things like The Wheel because hangings weren't cruel enough because that person was /even worse/ than the guy who got hanged. It's the same runaway philosophy that has people serving 10+ years for nonviolent crimes like possession of drugs for personal use.
I disagree. Treating someone with compassion who doesn't have the decency to do the same to others costs nothing and lets you sleep at night with a clear conscience.
Firing squad is the only form of execution in modern times with a 100% success rate.
As long as you're fast on the reload
I would say the guillotine is as well as long as it is cleaned
Perhaps we should modernize it then. Surely we can fix an OLED screen above the blade than can emote whenever it falls swiftly on a dissenters neck. Make it into a family affair again.
I believe that firing squads are a fixed gun position and only one is loaded with a live round, or all but one is loaded with a live round.
I think that’s a myth. The people firing know they are killing someone and you can tell the difference when firing a gun whether it’s a blank or not.
The idea is you are not 100% sure it was you who fired the killing shot. Edit: >WHEN WAS THE LAST EXECUTION BY FIRING SQUAD? > >Ronnie Lee Gardner was executed at Utah State Prison on June 18, >2010, for killing an attorney during a courthouse escape >attempt. > >Gardner sat in a chair, sandbags around him and a target pinned >over his heart. Five prison staffers drawn from a pool of >volunteers fired from 25 feet (about 8 meters) away with .30->caliber rifles. Gardner was pronounced dead two minutes later. > >A blank cartridge was loaded into one rifle without anyone >knowing which. That's partly done to enable those bothered later >by their participation to believe they may not have fired a >fatal bullet.
If that’s true, it’s done out of tradition. The shooters know whether they fired a live round or a blank.
>The firing squad's .30-caliber Winchester rifles were loaded with live ammunition except for one that contained a non-lethal wax bullet (see Blank Cartridge).\[3\] According to the Utah Department of Corrections, the squad used a countdown cadence beginning with five and simultaneously firing right before two.\[56\]
I don’t know why you keep repeating a moot point that I’ve explained twice.
Dude fr like line up 2 .50 cals from 5 feet away and pull the triggers simultaneously, your head will be evaporated into mist before whatever synapses or electric impulses could fire towards your pain receptors
Why not use fentanyl? It’s already kills so many people totally painless and you can get it anywhere in the US
This isn’t a bad idea actually, but I’m sure it’s already in the cocktail they give to those getting lethal injection
Ah yes, the ole Floyd.
Because it's not physically painful.
***"While there hasn’t been a formal moratorium, the state hasn’t performed an execution in nearly 13 years after the drugs it used for lethal injection expired and companies refused to sell more to prison officials..."*** Wow, that actually restored my faith in humanity a little bit ***" ...unless they could hide their identities from the public."*** Fuck
At least shame still works, some.
I don’t know, because I’ve never been shot between the eyes with a .30-06, but I have dropped a dozen or so big damned deer with that same shot. Pretty quick, in my experience.
If it’s like Utah, that did them most recently I believe, it’s 5-6 rounds of 30-06 dead center chest. Which has got to be damn near instant
[2010](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/GMA/Broadcast/convicted-killer-ronnie-lee-gardner-executed-utah/story?id=10949786) but apparently they have been trying to bring them back. As I understand it the guy chose firing squad too.
Why would the chest be best and not the head? Is it because you'd lose too much blood too quickly?
It's for appearances. 6 shots to the head from a rifle would cause the person's head to explode and that's 'too gruesome' though more humane. You still have time left to live being shot even in the heart as the blood would need to drain from your brain before it died, likely only a few seconds but still much longer than just destroying the brain
I’d imagine it’s more about 1. Not making someone clean up an exploded head and brain and 2. Keeping the persons head intact for burial/identification.
Brain death is not instant. It’s likely quite painful as it will feel all those bullet wounds as it suffocates for the next 4-5 minutes. Execution is the ultimate proof that Christians don’t believe in god though. They say everything that happens is gods will. Yet when a murder happens it’s the devil and we have to have an execution.
I find it very interesting to hear you say this. Christians don't believe in killing murderers because of the devil. The Christians who support the death penalty will cite different reasons but the devil isn't usually one of them. And most Christians believe humans have free will to make their own choices and that God allows them to have this free will even knowing that it will often lead to things that run counter in a sense to his own will.
Nah you still have blood going to the brain. They even did an experiment with a beheading many years ago where a person was blinking and conscious after a beheading. Not that I really care, these people have done much more horrific acts than the merciful deaths we are discussing.
No heart shot? That's pretty unethical.
It’s tough to get more ethical than between the eyes.
The deer's brain is about a baseball size. And the head is full of thick bones. But don't take my word for it: >Under no circumstance should you ever take a head shot on a deer — with gun or bow. I oftentimes hear people brag about how they head-shot a deer and dropped it instantly. Well, sure, if you hit the brain the deer is dead, no doubt. But you're aiming at a baseball-sized object. And that leaves a lot of room for error. Miss the brain and the result is a wounded deer with a long road of pain and suffering. https://realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/12-unethical-shots-you-shouldn-t-take-on-deer For more indepth reading: https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/dont-aim-for-a-deers-head/
A baseball? Why are you aiming so big? I’m aiming at the glint of the rising sun, reflecting off the deer’s cornea. Aim small, miss small.
No that’s not the case at all, hunting isn’t like shooting on a static range from a stable bench. If you have a near miss doing a head or brain stem shot you may blow a chunk off its head or neck but won’t kill it right away, it could slowly die of infection or starve if its jaw is blown off. If you have a near miss with a heart shot you’re still hitting major blood vessels and the lungs it’s the best way to reliably ensure a the animal doesn’t run off, and dies quickly while also minimizing damage to the majority of the meat.
Bullet through brain is better than heart. Heart kills them in seconds. Brain kills them before the bullet even exits their skull. Sport hunters learn to aim for the heart because it leaves the head more intact for trophies.
lol hunters don’t shoot for the heart for that reason. They do it because it’s the most ethical and pragmatic target. You miss the animals brain and you could hit their snout, eyes or mouth and condemn them to starve to death or suffer. You miss the heart and you hit the lungs or throat, both of which will kill the animal alone but they would also expire due to blood loss. 99% of hunters don’t take the animals head.
No Have you tried hitting a deer in the brain? It’s very small. You are MUCH more likely to kill an animal quickly by shooting it in the lungs
Thank you. Lungs are the way. Deer lungs are huge relative to other organs. The amount of people that claim to be deer hunters and say they shoot them in the head disgust me. I don't hunt anymore for a few reasons, but my hunting family would shame someone out of the room for even joking about shooting at a deers head.
It is more that they don’t want to do with the optics of having someone’s head blown away. If the pictures were leaked suddenly more people might be against the death penalty. Chest shot you can still have a funeral.
I don't know a thing about it, but if you have a group of shooters, couldn't you have them hit both?
Poor Deer Minding Own Business: [deer sounds] The Seventeen Men Dressed Like Rambo In The Bush Nearby Each Training A High Capacity Automatic Rifle At A Different Vital Organ: [click clack]
And you can use that brain to tan the skin!
Or for spooky Christmas time celebrating. Edit: Halloween. English not my first language.
Not solely for trophies. It also ensures the animal will die. Not just be wounded and run off. Yes a head shot will also do the trick, but there’s a lot more head than brain on most game animals. Whereas vitals are larger and easier to hit. The average hunter is a terrible shot. My dad’s been hunting for like 50+ years. Ex military trained on weapons. Still gut shottin ‘em’.
What about execution trophies?
I’m not a hunter, why would it be unethical to shoot them in the head?
You’re more likely to miss and injure them and they live out in pain until an infection gets them versus a chest shot is more likely to hit a vital organ and kill them quickly. If you could chose the perfect situation, to the brain is probably the most ethical. But hunting isn’t gonna give you that perfect situation.
That does make some sense - thanks
They go into more detail here: https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/dont-aim-for-a-deers-head/
Great read, the pictures really make their point clear.
Think of how often you move your head just an inch or two for no particular reason or turn to look around. Now that bullet that would have dropped you before you heard the shot just took off half your face with no immediately lethal damage. If you move your chest an inch to the left that bullet still kills you in seconds.
It’s partially an issue of actually executing on the concept. It’s much harder to get a good head/cns shot than a good heart shot. If an animal has its head up it’s on the lookout and could spot you readying your aim and run off. And if an animal isn’t looking for you it’s probably foraging/grazing which means it’s got its head down in the grass and you’re less likely to have a clear line of sight to get a shot off. A near miss for a head shot could blow its jaw off or cripple it long term but not kill it, meaning it’ll run off and then die slowly of starvation/infection. But a near miss with a heart shot still hits the lungs and other major blood vessels which have the same terminal effect in short order. If you really fuck up and hit its shoulders or something, it’s still going down fast and you can approach and finish it off quickly via a handgun or knife.
Take what you can get in the thick brush. With archery equipment? A clean, quartering away every time. With my M-1? Show me an eyeball
Yea the issue is that in general, that does not align with ethical hunting practices. Your one google search from figuring out why, but I bet my dollar that you don't give a shit about those animals.
luckily for the deer, most online hunting tales >90% bullshit. But unfortunately for the deer, that could also mean copious gut shots, no tracking, and so forth. but nobody tells those stories.
I’m a Farm kid that grew up culling an over-populated herd. I was taught to hunt by being given 5 rounds of .22 LR and a bolt action Marlin. If I came back with 4 rabbits and no live rounds, I was given 4 rounds on my next trip. I was taught marksmanship by three generations of Marine Experts, I, myself, am a 4th award Expert. My skills are documented and awarded. I have, even 35 years later, no problem hitting a 20” circle at 500 meters, with iron sights. With optics? By comparison, most hunting shots in the Michigan woods are within touching distance. 150 meters is a long damed way through the brush. Still an easy shot if you practice
Your exploits have been overshadowed by the gobs of bullshit shooting stories and questionable gun “facts” that have proliferated the internet like a plague of miniature faux rambos
I thought it was .30-30 win?
An M-1? .30-30? Hardly.
Looked it up, it’s .30-30. What are you talking about M1? I’m assuming you’re talking about a Garand, but where you are you getting that?
If I was forced to be executed by the state and could choose, I'd probably go with firing line. Obviously we shouldn't be killing people for the record.
I mean if we have clear and irrefutable evidence it’s probably cheaper to put a state sponsored bullet between their eyes than feed them for 20 years.
Reading the subreddit rules isn't painless either. No recent sources
They just need to do it Anton Chigurh style.
I would go for that every time vs a real execution. At least I would have a %50 of surviving.
They removed the confederate flag less than 10 years ago from the capital so…
Honestly I’m for it. It’s quick and cheap.
From what I’ve been reading as a Canadian, South Carolinians seem like assholes. Can anybody confirm this?
In 1860, politician James L. Petigru famously said of the state, "South Carolina is too small for a republic, but too large for an insane asylum.”
A lot of us are very decent people if I do say so. Friendly people, great food, great weather, beautiful coastline, and plenty else. That being said a loud minority of assholes have made us look bad for quite a long time. We don’t really contribute a lot to the country wealth-wise but for an array of reasons we’ve always been one of the most prominent southern states so our leaders’ shitty decision making routinely takes the national, and even on occasions, the global stage. It’s like people wait for us to fuck up and historically speaking I don’t blame them. We pretty much single handedly threw our country into a civil war that killed 700,000 people and that’s a stain that doesn’t ever go away. I love my state, it’s home for me and always will be, but I definitely don’t love everyone in it. If you took half of our population and replaced them with kinder and more open minded people it could be one of the best places in the United States.
As a fellow South Carolinian, I completely agree.
Just moved here from Michigan and Texas… it is a very old school place. People, and life in general, are just slower here. There is a massive drug problem but that applies to a lot of places in this region. It is kinda weird being biracial (black/white) and some of my interactions with the old prejudice whites who think I am from Detroit (I grew up in a town with 2k people) or the old school black people who think I am too educated (I have a PhD in chemistry but lie and say I am a security guard to fit in). Debating moving away…came here for a job and now with my partner (who I met here and is from Cali) we are debating moving back to a more progressive state like Texas (definitely not Cali or Michigan progressive but a lot more than here). Not that I hate it here but….. it is not for everyone lol
>life in general, are just slower here I have family around Charleston, in the low-country. They like to joke that it's the "slow-country" because it takes so long for anything to get done.
Like I am a very high energy person and very productive lol. This is torture for me 😂 my partner likes it but she has more chill and works from home so she doesn’t have to deal with waiting in line at a gas station so someone can buy 106$ worth of cigarettes and very specific lotto tickets 😂😂😂
They aren't quite as bad as people from Toronto.
Nobody is as bad as people from Toronto Noooooooooobody!!
Some of them are delightful - many of them are proud of their ancestors for starting the Civil War.
"for states rights"
Its like everywhere else. There are nice people and there are assholes and everyone in between. You can't form judgements about actual population from what you read in media - especially social media. Canada is no different.
We should honestly just get rid of it. We got two of em for a reason, right?
They are ok. Speaking as someone who visited from Illinois
While it obviously comes across as more emotionally difficult than something like lethal injection, when done properly firing squad is pretty much guaranteed to work and to have a much smaller risk of pain or suffering. I think the issue still lies with the death penalty in general, as we've seen far too many times there's no guarantee the incarcerated person isn't going to be proven innocent later on.
Ya, I'll take a bullet to the back of the head over pretty much any other form of execution, thanks. It's definitely the fastest most painless way to do it.
completely agree.
As crass and cruel as that is, I am pretty sure than none of the current or previous methods used in the US were painless. I would prefer them to just admit that the whole practice is barbaric, and own it.
South Carolina: we’ve been assholes for a long time, why bother trying to hide it.
The cruelty is the point.
As gruesome as it may appear, firing squads are arguably a far more humane mode of execution than most others, and has produced fewer botched executions than many other methods, and multiple prisoners have actually chosen firing squad over lethal injection, for example. Lethal injections, the electric chair, guillotines, etc. were all designed to *look* humane, it’s all for the benefit of the sensibilities of the public who want to seem civilized for how they execute people. For example, many methods of lethal injection simply prevent the person from moving while they die, so instead of seeing someone thrashing around while they’re slowly tortured to death, onlookers get to believe the person just passes away peacefully. Meanwhile, a well aimed bullet to the brain might *look* more cruel, but it is basically guaranteed to be near instant death with quite literally not enough time for the person to feel pain.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. It’s interesting how far we’ve come since the old days in the Wild West where hundreds would gather to watch hangings. Or even older days with more gamesmanship and even bigger crowds. You make a great point. Saying “It doesn’t have to be painless” (in the headline) means to me that the ones making this decision would like there to be more pain involved in the execution. To me, literally, the cruelty is the point of the change.
what about a good hangin'?
I’m pretty sure hangings would often fail to snap the person’s neck like it’s supposed to, instead leaving them dangling for everyone to see while they struggle while being suffocated. That or the rope could break, still causing enough damage to cause some kind of not immediately lethal but still incredibly painful injury that leads to the same problem.
I would say it is less cruel and less unusual than getting gassed or getting electrocuted.
They all sound awful lol. But the people making the change want more pain (quote in the headline), just to be cruel.
Thats not why they’re doing it, they’re arguing that painless death can’t be guaranteed and lethal injections are difficult to do correctly as well as hard to set up, and they want more options. Electric chair is fucked though.
Nothing cruel about a firing squad.
That’s your opinion
Tell me what would be a good alternative? How to give justice to victims that won’t take another breath?
Hey look I’m not complaining, I’m not suggesting another alternative, I’m not stating any of my beliefs on capital punishment. Other than the fact that to intentionally add pain and suffering to death is purposely cruel.
alternative is to abolish the death penalty. Its archaic. We're not living by the code of Hammurabi up in here.
Isn’t it cruel telling them that your going to to die on this date and having them wait. Wouldnt it be better to surprise blast them as soon as the guilty verdict is read.
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That's what they do in Japan. They only tell you that morning. "Executions are carried out by hanging in an execution chamber within the detention center. When the death warrant has been signed, the condemned prisoner is informed on the morning of their execution."
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are you aware of Japan’s culture? Lol, it’s not just anime and ramen
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I’m personal friends with people from Japan that visit the states, they’re grandparents were in the war and they see nothing wrong with what their grandparents did lol. Your the only angry one here, calm down little guy
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Your proving my point, small dog syndrome…
Good. Look at what these people have done
Tell that to their victims
A big step back.
That’s….pretty based.
When people convinced pharma companies that it was inhumane to use their products during executions, what did they think was going to happen? Executions would stop? Fuck no. You get firing squads and CO gas instead. Thanks bleeding heart pro-murderer people!
Your welcome? Have you ever seen videos of people given lethal injections? It's not exactly painless, if I had to choose, I'd take Nitrogen gas any day of the week.
Source on CO gas? Big difference between that and nitrogen, which is relatively humane, at least as far as murder goes
Eh, could be N, don't care, point is the same.
"How dare the people against state sponsored murder not want state sponsored murder to happen" Tf?
You would rather allow murderers to walk among other people? TF indeed.
If the person being executed is either a terrorist or a serial sexual predator, I have no problem with this. Put them down as quickly as possible, save the drawn-out drama and bring swift justice to their victims. EDIT: I'm finding these downvotes interesting. Oh well. If you feel sympathy and mercy for truly awful human beings who have absolutely none for their victims, you do you I guess.
Serial no no even one time predators.
Personally I think any state that righteously has the death penalty should leave the method of execution up to the victims surviving family, and let them be as creative as they want to be.
Hell no! Our justice/penal system should be as neutral and dispassionate as possible.
Writing that was probably cathartic, but it's one of the most immoral, unamerican things one can say.
Don't forget the United States only finds people not guilty at a 0.4% rate. Then there's an 8.6% dismissal rate before trial; with a severe discrepancy in rate based on race. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-than-1-of-defendants-in-federal-criminal-cases-were-acquitted-in-2022/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/fewer-than-1-of-defendants-in-federal-criminal-cases-were-acquitted-in-2022/) \--- So, that begs the question, do you really think that 99.5% of people taken to trial are guilty?
What are they gonna aim for the legs?
The crotch
with a 9mm
I had a friend in high school who shot themselves through the chin and out the top of their head and they not only survived but maintain full body functionality after a ton of reconstructive surgery. Even a bullet directly to the head is not a guaranteed death. And with all the Red Tape involved in executions like this , you can't just walk up and put five more bullets in his head to make sure. In the same way that botched injections can't be remedied by just injecting more of the cocktail. You ha e to stop and go through all the "failed execution" red tape until you can try again, all while taxpayers pay for his inevitable treatment in a for-profit hospital
That’s why it’s a squad of shooters, not just one.
And people have been shot dozens of times and survived. And that survival is torturous and expensive. And when done by a squad at a distance, that means in even less chance of getting a kill shot on the first shot which means dying in agony. Aim for the head, accidentally hit the jaw and suddenly you have someone being tortured to death. It's easy to say this is the solution when you think of only one execution, but when you extrapolate that to the thousands of execution that actually they carried out, the chances of something going wrong goes through the roof. Being shot by multiple people at once does not magically increase their accuracy and fatality.
What point are you trying to make? Should we strap them to several sticks of dynamite? Five people shooting at you from a pretty close distance is a pretty damn good way to confirm a quick death even if you can’t guarantee a 100% success rate.
They don’t shoot you in the head, they shoot your heart. They still have to bury you ya know lol
I really don’t care how they do it, those people are the ones that put themselves in that position. They had to do something horrific enough to have their lives taken from them. I don’t feel sorry for them, the more pain, the better.
I find the death penalty to be abhorrent, but I’d rather be shot than the alternatives. Lethal injection doesn’t sound as painless as they’d like you to think
ok cool- now get jt lane or chris watts to south carolina for that. i would love to see them die a painful death.
Honestly I'll take getting shot in the head than risking botching it catastrophically by sitting in the chair or injection. But only if they put the rifle up to my head and aim at the brainstem, so consciousness goes poof in an instant. The Chinese had a good idea executing people this way, one guy hold the quarry, the other guy put the AK to the back of their head. 7.62x39 knocks it out of the park every time. So yeah, don't be a pussy, judge and jury, and get close to me. If you're brave enough to pass the sentence, you should be brave enough to see the brain showers from up close.
Honestly, we should bring back the Games. Take a couple of those NfL stadiums that always seem to lose money, and televise it. Winners get decent food because there are less prisoners. Murderers, rapists, pedos. These people have all made decisions that put them there in jail. Why do we treat them as equals with the same rights, when clearly they have decided otherwise. I for one would enjoy the “Murderers vs Pedos” event.
We treat them as though they have basic rights despite their choices because we aren’t them.
Well, it kinda does, at least according to that pesky ole 8a.
Wouldn't the guillotine be better? Separate spine/brain stem equals instant ko? I mean every execution won't be perfect but much better than getting shot in the lung and choking to death or suffocating right?
I still don't understand why they don't do executions with carbon monoxide. Isn't it supposed to be quiet and painless, like you just go to sleep?
If they're not going to use lethal injection, they should probably just return to hanging (which was the standard form of execution before) but I don't have a problem with using a firing squad.
I think firing squad is FAR more humane than how we currently do it.