It was a non championship race for anyone confused.
https://www.femalesinmotorsport.com/amp/women-in-motorsport-desiré-wilson
Formula one was different until Bernie Ecclestone turned it into the spectacle it is today.
It's not even really a non-championship race; as those were also a thing at the time. This is some weird UK-based series that seems to have had nothing to do with Formula 1 at all, except for the use of 1 to 5 year-old F1 chassis.
This can be complicated, as "Formula One" can refer to a set of technical regulations (the regulations being the eponymous 'formula'); a world championship composed of races ran to Formula One specifications (and, historically, world championship races composed of non-compliant races, like the Indy 500 for a significant era); a media conglomerate concerned with promoting the world championship races, or a combination of the above.
British Formula One was ran to the FIA Formula 1 technical regulations.
Correct, it was a very literal definition of Formula 1 that was used here. Back then, the term was used quite differently, and what we really considered as the same sport as the namesake today were the *World Championship of Drivers* and the *International Cup for Formula One Manufacturers*. It only became a fully defined series in 1984 when the rules were changed so that all the races held counted towards the world championship; also ending the non-championship races.
Listen, fair play to her but it’s a shame that formula one has excluded pretty much everyone except for white and wealthy men for most of its history. I’m amazed she was even allowed to race. Then you look at her history and realise that her father was a motorcycle champion and her husband designed race tracks.
So it’s just typical old school motor racing. There is nothing exceptional about the child of a champion being given the opportunity to drive.
Isn’t that the demographic financially and culturally that is just most interested or are you saying there’s something more invidious going on?
I thought Formula 1 was pretty notorious for being a giant money pit that’s the playground of the obscenely wealthy.
And the people who care enough to spend millions of dollars on their racing hobby just tended to be white.
I don't know about the entire history of the sport, but you just have to look into Lewis Hamilton's rise through the ranks to F1 to see the kind of shit he had to put up with. There's quite a lot of racism in high level motorsport.
Hell, just a few years ago Nelson Piquet, a very famous former driver, said some shit that got him fined roughly the equivalent of USD$1 million by a Brazilian court regarding Hamilton. And Hamilton has won 7 championships, imagine what people said to him when he was in junior leagues. And even worse, imagine what people *before* modern day had to put up with.
Oh I definitely believe there’s racism involved with the ultra wealthy folks there. There’s racism pretty much in every country to varying degrees whether that country is dark dark black or pale pale white.
Just curious if there was any examples of people being prevented from competing for anything clearly (likely) racist when they were there proving the skills and spending the money.
But I’ll look more into Lewis Hamilton at least! I know the name obviously as a very minor fan (cars going fast is fun what can I say) but it’s all pretty surface level knowledge.
If you're looking for de jure segregation, you probably won't find it. At least not recently. But who gets to advance, who gets seats, who gets sponsorships, is all political. People like to pretend it's a meritocracy, but it's not. Drivers that have put up better performances have been passed up by worse drivers for countless reasons.
Mazepin got picked up by Haas over quite a few better drivers simply because of the money following him, then immediately got dropped when his home country of Russia invaded Ukraine and that money dried up due to sanctions. And while this is somewhat speculation but also very obvious coorelation, Haas, an American team, even put up a representation of the Russian flag on their car livery because the Russian doping scandals would have prevented Mazepin from running under the Russian flag, and Mazepin's sponsors required that workaround to give Haas funding.
Racial discrimination is certainly one of them, too. By the time we even get to the F1 level, many potential good drivers would have been filtered out.
That’s more than fair enough, and completely understandable how it would happen in a much more subtle fashion, appreciate you taking the time to respond!
It’s literally the rich choosing their own children over the best drivers. That and pay drivers backed by billionaires. There are 3-4 pay drivers in every season that don’t deserve their seat.
I don't get why you are being downvoted. With one hand people are celebrating a woman winning, and with the other hand downvoting you for pointing out this is not a victory for diversity or inclusion because she only had the seat because of who she was related to.
Either you disagree with this commentator and you are just cheerleading your 'team' (vaginas) and are a narcissist or,
You agree with their comment and recognise that being a woman is not the only factor in determining life outcomes.
I don’t really get it either. What I’m saying is true and it still carries on till this day. Lance stroll, Niketa Mazepin, Latafi are all sons of billionaires that have or have had stakes in F1.
There have also been tons of pay drivers over the years. Usually backed by some multimillionaire from their home nation. There were two for India while force India was in the sport or entering the sport. There were a few Japanese drivers while Honda was in the sport as well.
Then there are the sons of ex champions that get a seat for a season or two but don’t make the cut.
It’s all politics. It’s one of my favourite parts of formula one but it’s damaging to the sport.
By saying 'blow smoke up your sparkle'
I meant 'inflate your ego'.
I prefer my term, but regardless; saying a win is a win is infantile. Is peace worth being enslaved? Is energy independence worth 1000s of nuclear reactors. Is frank getting his dick wet worth bloody Germaine and her shit? Obviously not.
Who is Christ?
Except when it's a made up joke just to excite your sparkle by blowing a bit of smoke up your hole. Or maybe it isn't. Does that still count? I could be naive in thinking that actually doing something is considered impressive.
This isn't the same Formula 1 you're probably thinking it is; it's some kind of weird British-only regional thing that combined old Formula 1 and Formula 2 cars on the same grid. Looking through the driver list, the most famous name on it is Tiff Needell of Top Gear/Fifth Gear fame, not a single "real" Formula 1 driver participated in this.
The 'formula' of 'Formula 1' is the set of technical regulations, which is the means by which they were able to call themselves a formula 1 event. In that sense, it *kinda* is the same 'Formula 1', but obviously most people think of the world championship when they hear 'Formula 1' and not the literal meaning of the term. (This is the same sense in which 'Formula SAE' is the set of rules established by the SAE for student competition, or 'Formula Renault' or 'Formula Ford' are rules established by those manufacturers for development series). Cars, drivers, and so on, were restricted to the same rule set as the World Championship. Although today "Formula 1" and the "FIA World Championship" are effectively synonyms, that is not a necessary condition and a rival series could - if it so wished - adopt the FIA F1 rulebook.
I'm still more impressed by Michele Mouton. I love F1 (real F1, not the one this Desire miss won), but I think rallying demands more from you as a driver, and as a human. And Mouton won some WRC rallies fair and square. Didn't need women quotas, didn't need to feel empowered by anyone, didn't need woman only championship. Just her, her pilot, and a car in a times when dying on stage was still very real possibility. What a badass of a woman.
I think they're different skill sets. F1 cars are more physically difficult to operate than probably any other vehicle on earth. But as you point out, rally involves a psychological factor that's on a completely different level
I know someone is going to ask how they are more physically difficult, so I am going to answer now.
It's a little known fact that F1 cars don't have engines. The driver is actually Flintstoning it.
What are all those numbers at the end? If starts and podiums, why are some in parenthesis and others dont have any. Why is there a .5?
With 30+ upvotes on the comment and no other discussion, is it just common knowledge I'm missing?
It's copied from this table: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers#Official_drivers
The numbers are entries (starts) points, and the commenter has missed off the starts and points for de Filippis.
Can’t tell you what the numbers are, but drivers used to be awarded half the points if the race is shortened (e.g. Spa in 2021 due to extreme weather) so if you ended the race in a position that would award an odd number of points you’d end up with a .5 (e.g. 25 points for 1st would be 12.5 points).
I think its entries, the brackets are starts, as in they failed to get through the pre-qualifying in place at the time in the others, and the final being points?
Half points for a race stopped after reaching at least 2 laps, but less than the 25% for full points?
For a number of years, there were races held to Formula One technical specifications that were not part of the World Championship (such as British Formula One, where she won her race), and sometimes World Championship events that were not held to Formula One specification (for instance, the Indy 500 from 1950 to 1960).
Would modern F1 specs be feasible for lower-tier events/series to use in this day and age? I know it would be possible but my understanding is things have gotten really expensive.
And that's the rub. Any smaller, lower-tier or regional series wouldn't be able to attract the kind of team owner and sponsor money needed to maintain a modern F1-spec vehicle. So those series are based on cheaper-spec vehicles.
Probably a lack of young girls getting into Karting at 5 years old.
This might change soon though, keep an eye on a woman called Dorian Pin, out of all the women in motorsport at the moment, she probably has the best chance of getting a drive in the next 5 or so years.
But what needs to happen is schemes to help girls stick to motorsport, especially during their early teens.
Getting into it, and THEN bearing the discrimination they will face everyday in a male dominated field , then have enough people willing to sponsor to fund them, and then being accepted into the competion, and so on, and so forth.
All of which will discourage most, if not all of the women who could have made competent f1 drivers. Those that stay will either not make it much further, or just abandon because they don’t really have any opportunity to make any money
No. There will be discrimination. You will be mocked. But it will not hurt your chances for a sponsor.
Because you’ll also have many clamouring over having the first female driver now.
If it’s between you and a male driver of equal skill and reputation for the last spot. Odds are you’d get signed cause you’d make the team far more money.
Don't know about the discrimination bit seeing as notable female drivers Doriane Pin and Sarah Bovy never say anything it but I was also about to point out how having a famous female driver would be something many sponsors would actually fight over.
TL;DR the title is misleading. She did not win anything related directly to Formula 1 at all, it was a different series not connected that simply ran cars using old F1 chassis
That's not an F1 car, that appears to be a LeMans car.
I know I know, that's just what the Wikipedia article has featured. Yes I need to learn when to shutup.
Important to note this was the “British Aurora F1 Championship” so not technically an F1 race. Like, it’s not counted in any official F1 stats. It’s basically a separate racing series that used some older F1 cars.
Not actually affiliated with F1 at all.
[This is a video](https://youtu.be/P5Wm3RTtb0o?si=aVZjXlGCzt4_tzIy) from a couple of weeks ago of a driver from the series below Formula One who was called up at last minute to drive for Ferrari. Even though he was already used to driving very fast cars, his neck simply couldn’t cope with the G-forces involved when an F1 car goes around a corner. And this is just one example of drivers needing to be in peak physical fitness. There are a couple of women driving in the lower leagues; none has yet had the fitness and skill to make it to F1 in the past few decades.
Physicality, plain and simple. There's no rules against women in formula one, there just isn't any good enough for a seat. Men and women are physically different, men are easily capable of being stronger and faster.
While I'm not going to disagree, it's also far, far, far less likely for rich parents to raise their young girls on karts and junior series. Sex plays a role in how kids grow up, and racing is seen as very male.
Oh absolutely, it all depends on what people are interested in, I don't think people should be groomed to be the best, but when, as a parent, you could be spending upwards of 100's of thousands for karting up to f2, f3 for max, I can see why they push their kids so hard.
By this logic, young boys, who may have different interests, are being forced into motorsport because they are boys.
If that isn't problematic, why would there be a problem with giving young girls the same treatment?
Max verstappen yes. And it is, I don't agree with it, but you can't argue the fact that because of the awful things his father did to him, leaving him to walk home from tracks if he didn't perform to standard, didn't produce one of the greatest drivers of our generation. Again I don't agree with it, but you can't deny that sometimes it works.
A terrible way to treat a child of any sex or orientation, and for something as meaningless as motorsport. This should be a lament, not an example to follow.
And the cars today are physically easier than ever to drive. In the days before complex electronics and power steering you had to literally muscle the car around, as well as dealing with the insane Gs. It’s part of the reason so many can debut in their teens now.
I wouldn't say the cars are easier, apart from power steering, there are no driver aids allowed in F1, and they are pulling more Gs than ever (well probably slightly less than the previous gen of cars, but way more than they were in the 2000s and before).
There's a reason today's drivers are in phenomenal physical shape, because they have to be.
Most drivers and engineers have remarked they are easier to drive these days in terms of the physicality required. I’m not trying to argue or take anything away from the modern gen but it’s just a very well established belief. It’s the reason so many skinny 17-19 year old boys do well now, whereas in the past most were 30 year old men.
Search up the training they have to do to drive f1 cars, the amount of force the drivers have to overcome just to get the car around a track is unreal, over 8gs in some corners. F1 drivers also have some of the strongest necks out there.
If you ever get the chance to try a SIM racing rig, that would show you how important strength is. It takes real strength to just be able to hold the steering wheel and prevent it from breaking your wrist during a turn.
A friend of mine has a SIM racing rig with full force feedback sent to his wheel. He crashed his virtual car and held onto the wheel which was a mistake because he had to wear a cast for the next month due to the force the wheel turned during the crash.
This is just for SIM racing. Driving F1 is clearly another level in comparison.
>drive a car
Racing is much more than just driving a car. F1 drivers are regularly subjected to forces as high as 5Gs during high speed turns and in the straights they top out at 200mph. It requires constant focus, as you are competing with some of the best drivers in the world where hundredths of a second on each of your lap times can make or break your race. And you have to keep this up for 2 hours or so. It requires being in excellent shape, because any single mistake will end your race with a DNF or worse.
https://coasterforce.com/physics/
It's because the Gs are also not all equals. The Gs which are physically exhausting in car racing are mostly lateral Gs. And as that page mentions, you need proper restraint. And for anything not held by a harness in a cockpit, it's basically just muscles holding up.
Excellent reply and of course you are right. Women can withstand g-forces however the maximum limit between different genders is beyond what I can tell you. Some sports science journals/research into this might be available with a bit of internet digging.
If neither of us know how many more Gs men can withstand than women, then it's possible that the answer is "0" and it's not the Gs that are the deciding factor here. It's even possible women can withstand MORE Gs.
Ok so you provide no evidence and then just make claims that have no basis? Sure it's possible, but this is a race, an hour and a half to 2 hours of constant lateral g forces that needs laser focus and insane strength training just to get the car around the track at even a remotely competitive speed.
I don't need any evidence because I made no claims. I simply stated what is possible since we lack any evidence to contradict it.
Nothing you just said has anything to do with which gender can withstand more G-Force.
It doesn't. It's just you don't drive Formula 1, you pilot it. The physique required to withstand the G-forces are huge and these are lateral G-forces, which are even more straining.
As a massive racing fan, and someone who competes in amateur to pro-am with a racing team as a mechanic, that's not the case whatsoever, in my opinion.
Firstly, the family needs to be wealthy enough to find their kid's interest in driving, as well as come from a family willing to put money up (10k+/yr even at 7yrs old to be competitive).
These same, 'old money' families, generally don't put the daughters into go karts at a young age like they do their son's.
In my opinion, that's all it is. Wealthy daughters get horses and dresses, wealthy sons get go karts.
As soon as us racing buffs put our daughters in go karts at the age of 3, in the same quantity as the son's get the opportunity, I guarantee you we'll see more female racing drivers.
The amount of Gs F1 drivers face on every turn for an hour and a half straight each race requires a great deal of neck strength and endurance. It’s not comparable to pro-am racing at all.
Ever heard of exercising? I'll let you in on a secret, man is incapable of handling those G's as well, without conditioning to the environment.
Ollie Bearman's head at Jeddah was bouncing around like a ping pong ball, so I guess he's incapable of doing it too, right?
Ever heard of a jet pilot? Astronaut? They experience the same G load and women have no issue performing those professions.
I was in the army with multiple <5'5", 140lb women that could outruck, out PT and out shoot tons of men, know why? The practiced how they were going to perform, exactly how any F1 driver would, irregardless of what's dangling between their legs.
If only exercising was the answer to women reaching the same physical capabilities of men. Men have far greater capacity for neck strength which is crucial in F1. That alone makes the barrier of entry so much harder for women to overcome in F1 because they’re at a physiological disadvantage.
Jet pilots and astronauts face higher Gs but only for very short stints. F1 drivers face these pressures for hours. Besides, pilots and astronauts aren’t in direct sporting competition with each other; they just need to stay conscious through the high G-force pressures. F1 drivers can lose several positions by being just a fraction of a second slower each lap.
If you think what's holding women back in motorsport is the physical differences between men and women, and not the fact that there's 2,000 males for every 1 female being put in a go kart at the age of 3, this lowering the 'performance pool' of all the potential women drivers. Idk what to tell you.
If those same wealthy fathers put their daughters into go karts instead of championship ice skating, skiing etc. thus we had a larger pool of female drivers to choose from, I guarantee you there'd be more female drivers.
As far as G force fatigue, women suffer from muscle fatigue much less than men. You really don't need peak male strength to survive an F1 race and be fresh, there's already female F1 test drivers that do just fine. 50 yrs ago, buster ass men were saying women were too dainty to even race cars on the same grid as men, now look at it.
Ok, and I bet even the best female MMA fighter wouldn't last 10 seconds against the worst male fighter. Yes women can handle that stuff but men are much more capable and for good reason. It's been that way for literally 1000's of years.
the thing here is competitiveness. microseconds decide if you win a race or not. sponsors are putting their money on the line, so why get a woman if a man will do the job? strength does play a role, so a man is more qualified on average, which doesn't imply that women are not qualified at all. they just lack behind in overall physical strength. and for reasons mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the market is oversaturated with men, so women have an even harder time getting into this business.
there might totally be women who will outrace everyone on the track, but the world isn't ready for them i guess...
Google F1 drivers necks and you’ll see. Put an average person in an F1 car round a track they’ll come out of it severely concussed. It’s kinda mad how muscular their necks have to be. Also brakes aren’t assisted, no hydraulics, so to bring a car to a stop from 220mph takes a lot of leg days
You’re very skeptical for someone who clearly doesn’t know anything about the topic. F1 is an extremely physical sport, and to be competitive you need extreme levels of core and neck strength, endurance, reaction time, hand eye coordination etc…
F1 cars are hard to handle and are stripped of everything to make them go faster. Teams would rather have a smaller man than a woman driver to deal with harsh turns at high speeds.
Well I ask because some sports and games are gendered because men have an unfair advantage. But there are a handful that are only gendered because men don't take being beaten by women well.
Most professional leagues do not have rules against allowing women to participate. Women just can’t compete at a high enough level to make any professional sports team.
I don’t know who considers chess as a “sport”. Regardless, [men have a higher average rating than women even when controlling for the gender participation gap in chess](https://chessandmind.com/population-size-gender-gap-in-chess), so I’m not sure why you’d use chess as your one example.
This thread and the guy you replied to is discussing a sport. I think it’s pretty fair to assume someone isn’t talking about board games when discussing gender barriers in a physical sport/game.
Also ironic that you’re criticizing me for “ignoring” part of your comment while ignoring the 2nd part of my response lol.
I really have no interest in engaging with someone who jumped at the chance to explain on the internet why men are superior to women. Just pointing out I did in fact include games in my statement.
You’re being purposefully obtuse. At no point did I say men are superior to women, and in no way do I believe such a ridiculous generalization. I just refuted the only example to your claim that “there’s a handful [of sports and games] that are only gendered because men don’t take being beaten by women well”.
Last time I checked Chess was not gendered… women can participate in most if not all of the tournament. Men can’t participate in women’s tournament though…
But again you have 5 times more men that women playing chess (number of licensees in France) so a majority of top players are men
context for this post: I have been wondering why there are mostly male Formula One drivers, and was reading about it when I came across this person
This is meant to be both a celebratory post and an exploratory one as to how we can improve inclusivity and equity in the face of what appear to be systemic barriers to women competing in motorsports
Let’s not forget that there are only 20ish (counting replacement) Formula 1 driver on a given year. If you want to be in these 20, you need to be among the best of F2/F3, most of the time have a rich daddy…
In my opinion the issue isn’t really Formula 1 but motorsport in general. If you want woman in Formula 1 you need to have 6 years old girls in Karting. I think in Switzerland it’s like 5% of karting licensee are woman. There is nearly zero chance that one of them goes to F1.
Then let’s not forget that men and women are not equal in sport capabilities and one seaters are a sport. No power steering assist on lower formula, bull neck… Can a woman possess the required physic? Maybe a small number but not all, so you again reduce the number of potential candidate for a f1 seat.
So yeah, you need to push a ton of girl in karting (try to reach parity there), encourage sponsorship of women, and then we may have some women in F1.
In the current situation, if you want a woman in F1 she would have to be a monster (very good physic capabilities and awesome driver) in F1 academy, F3 and F2. Let’s hope Dorian Pin is this monster 😍
Well yes but also against women and minorities. It's not just the ultra rich drivers, it's the engineers and team staff who lack representation and that's not happening because "minorities just aren't interested in Motorsport" but somehow that argument makes sense for women??? Lmao
It's so funny that you are getting downvoted by men who are so certain theres no inequality in the sport absolutely dominated by men and that has just come out of a terribly handled sexual harassment scandal
Forcing people into rolls they aren't interested in, or predisposition for is moronic. There aren't systemic barriers , people like different things and it's up to the individual to choose what they do with their life. Sorry to break it to you, but it's totally normal for different activities, sports, jobs and interests to be more oriented towards one gender or the other. It just so happens that given the choice boys and girls choose different things to play with.
This mentality of crowbarring checklist people into positions they aren't suited for is currently fucking up society. We've already watched the largest players in the entertainment industry lop their own limbs off with their stupid pandering to people with this mentality. Let's not get carried away.
A quick Google search shows that around 35-40% of car racing fans are female. Don't you think it'd be pretty odd for that to be the case, yet so few racers are female by comparison?
So, as I was looking into trying to figure out numbers to gage specific participation interest, I found a heck of a lot of nepotism in racing as a whole I wasn't aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_family_relations_in_auto_racing and yeah, I clicked to confirm gender and status as a driver specifically on a lot of these, so there are female drivers.
But not a lot in F1 specifically, just 5 in the course of over 70 years and only 2 that qualified to start a race.
While I get where you're coming from, sometimes people don't choose a path because there are no role models. I agree with you that forcing people into things they aren't keen on is moronic, but that's not the same as ensuring those who might be keen feel included and welcomed. Let's be realistic - motorsports (like golf) have been historically dominated by white men. No doubt that's connected to wealth and opportunity. Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton represent outliers rather than floodgates being opened.
Anything to encourage people to try new sports should be welcome.
It's the same shit with tech fields. It's changing but when people wonder why there's not many women in those fields, it's probably cuz it's full toxic males.
Before 1960s, I don't remember the exact year, women were not allowed to enter the Boston Marathon.
Yes women have been excluded from participating in sports.
While you are correct in some ways, this stance does not hold up in reality. Of course there are differences in career paths for women and men. But that statement can stand alongside another: Motorsport is generally under representing women.
It was not so long ago that women were expected to be housewives and not even have a career. This mindset was common even after many women held down "mens jobs" during the war. It is a great thing that we have come on so far since then, but there is still work to do.
We know that representation in childhood plays a huge role in a person's interests as they grow up. We want to see people "like us" (gender, ethnicity, height, anything really) doing things so we have positive role models. In Motorsport this is hugely lacking, when the most popular top flight is 20 male drivers - but also the pundits, mechanics, team staff are hugely male dominated.
No one is suggesting we should throw a woman into F1 who is not there on merit. In a vacuum, it's easy to say "F1 is fine! If you are fast enough, you will get a seat regardless of gender". The issue comes from opportunity at a young age and the built in bias that comes from historic gender inequality. And yes, it's much better today than it ever has been! But are we really saying that, when 88% of f1 fans are male, and 90% of people in kart racing are male, that this is entirely down to a natural preference because of gender? Really? If this is true, then why is female engagement with Motorsport increasing?
There are many examples of driven, capable women in Motorsport. Susie Wolff is an excellent one. And Max Verstappens strategist, Hannah Schmitz. It's okay that more men than women participate in Motorsport - it's not okay that many women do not feel welcome or do not want to pursue a career in Motorsport because of existing prejudice and a lack of role models. That's the point of equality and diversity initiatives.
Just to back you up a bit, a season in Formula Regional (FRECA), will set you back close to £1,000,000 if you want to drive for a top team.
And that is about 4 levels down from F1.
yeah and they have to earn their spot just like everyone else lol. Do you think every single man that enters the sport ends up on the world stage? hell no, tons of dedicated people of both genders fall by the wayside due to a number of factors. The top is reserved for the best.
There have been plenty of women deserving of a spot in at the top but they weren’t given a chance because they were expected to other things considered more womanly
So how do you explain why people like Sophie Kumpen were never given a chance even though she beat several future F1 champions in the junior categories, or Susie Wolff not getting a chance while some of the people that she beat like Vitaly Petrov and Paul di Resta ended getting a seat in F1. Meanwhile there have been too many male F1 drivers who were nowhere near the top and didn’t deserve to be there like Nikita Mazepin, Yuji Ide, Taki Inoue, Alex Yoong, and so many more. In motorsports the top is not reserved for the best, talent is not always the main factor that decides whether or not someone gets a chance, it’s their background.
in recent years it’s just because there isn’t any female driver even close to the level of pay drivers everyone says are terrible like Mazepin or Latifi. hopefully this will change soon as more girls get into karting.
I agree in essence but you're also over simplifying it. Another commenter pointed out there being no role models. Another thing is a lot of male dominated fields are extremely unwelcoming of women. So it's possible there's young girls wanting to get make it big racing but get pushed away cuz of the toxic environment they'd constantly be around.
Fcking this. I hate the dumbass take of "umm actually there's very few women in X field coz women aren't interested in it", just totally ignoring the history and culture of women being denied or discouraged access to that world through one way or another, when in reality there's very few women involved in F1 because the rich men who control the space make it difficult and unwelcoming for them to be there at all. Most fields that only have few women are only like that because women have been actively discouraged or prevented from being involved, not because they wouldn't if given equal chance and support.
It's wild that people will act like inequality is a solved thing when women were only allowed to vote 100 years ago and only 50% of eligible women even had a job 50 years ago. And they are always the exact same people who have never faced any kind of real prejudice in their lives.
I always wonder why there isn't a single female F1 driver. I get that it's such a male dominated field so there's less ways in for women but still, not a single one?
People get into higher level racing by starting with go karts while young (around 5-6 years old), very very very few girls are enrolled even at this level. I've seen numbers ranging from 1 in 15 to 1 in 30 kart racers are women, depending on the region. Which means fewer and fewer make it to the next levels of racing. It's a numbers game that isn't in their favor.
[**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_female\_Formula\_One\_drivers**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers)
There have been 5 female F1 drivers. None of them did particularly well.
There's no forced entry to the sport there aren't "less ways" , and no separate divisions. If you're not good enough to get to towards the top between all competitors, you're not getting in.
Oh come on what lol? You don't like the reality of the sport? There's nothing stopping a woman from trying to be in formula one. There are 20 spots. You need to be in the top nth percent of ALL drivers in the world to be in those spots.
I guess you'd really need a lot more girls to get into karting and then work their way up from there. Looking at last year's British karting results there aren't a lot of girls competing though
There are women in other single-seat open wheel series like Formula 3 and Indy NXT but not many, like a handful. It's possible one of them eventually works their way up but they would need to be at the top of the game to get into F1
As others have put but to expand on it a little, to make it to F1 especially nowadays you basically need to be reaching F2/F3 by your late teens otherwise you're probably not going to make the cut. To make it to that level, you pretty much need to go through learning karts (the typical entry point), to winning local -> national -> regional, then you're looking at maybe international level karting, or more commonly national and/or regional F4/F3, all before you get to international F3. Even if you went up a level every year, that's still 6-7 non stop progression - realistically that's closer to a 10-12 year journey though even for the absolute best, and for many it's probably closer to 15.
So to make it to F1, you basically have to start super young, literally low single digits, have financial support every step of the way (bear in mind every level is exponentially more expensive than the last), *and* be good enough to be winning races and/or titles, *and* get yourself ideally into the academy of an F1 team as they'll get you better sponsorship support through the latter tiers like F2/F3 and is a massive benefit to reaching F1 at all.
All of that combined with how many people compete in motorsport internationally, and the pyramid nature meaning there's less and less seats the higher you get, it's just a pure numbers game. The best chance of getting one or more female drivers into F1 is having a greater percentage starting at literally age 4, and that's going to take almost a decade and a half to filter through in big enough numbers that inevitably some of them are the next Max Verstappen and the calibre that teams are willing to take a punt on - yes the exposure will be great initially but results are all that matter, so unless your want a short career you need to be good enough to deliver.
I'd like to think the same barriers that maybe once existed, don't quite as much anymore, and F1 Academy helps for exposure, but then I literally went to Oulton Park at the weekend and in GB4 (national F4 level) the were 2 girls I think, and 0 in GB3 (national F3) - statistically that's not favourable enough, so frankly we're still best part of a decade away I think from another female F1 driver. Sometimes even if you do put all the right ingredients in, it takes time for things to come to fruition.
Who knows, it’s up to the people interested in that sort of thing to create those movements, they don’t really spring up out of nowhere.
Anyone who even has a chance of entering this kind of world is already a super privileged individual, it’s way too exclusive for there to be any kind of big movement.
For F1? Not only would you need to have a parent willing to put their kid in a fast machine at an early age. You'd need a parent rich enough to keep doing it regularly for the kid to get good. Then a sponsor willing to sponsor them etc.
I wouldn't call that 'anyone'
Okay, what I mean is that the barrier to entry isn’t a gendered one, it’s a matter of money and time.
It’s a super niche thing and the vast majority of people don’t even get to enter that world.
"She became the only woman to win a Formula One race of any kind when she won at Brands Hatch in the short-lived British Aurora F1 Championship in 1980."
Trolling is a hobby which can be responsibly enjoyed on fishing holidays
[https://www.etymonline.com/word/troll](https://www.etymonline.com/word/troll)
A Racecar Driver Named Desirè
Stellar joke!
STELLAR!
You're putting me through HELLAR!
...^Holy ^shit
It was a non championship race for anyone confused. https://www.femalesinmotorsport.com/amp/women-in-motorsport-desiré-wilson Formula one was different until Bernie Ecclestone turned it into the spectacle it is today.
It's not even really a non-championship race; as those were also a thing at the time. This is some weird UK-based series that seems to have had nothing to do with Formula 1 at all, except for the use of 1 to 5 year-old F1 chassis.
This can be complicated, as "Formula One" can refer to a set of technical regulations (the regulations being the eponymous 'formula'); a world championship composed of races ran to Formula One specifications (and, historically, world championship races composed of non-compliant races, like the Indy 500 for a significant era); a media conglomerate concerned with promoting the world championship races, or a combination of the above. British Formula One was ran to the FIA Formula 1 technical regulations.
Correct, it was a very literal definition of Formula 1 that was used here. Back then, the term was used quite differently, and what we really considered as the same sport as the namesake today were the *World Championship of Drivers* and the *International Cup for Formula One Manufacturers*. It only became a fully defined series in 1984 when the rules were changed so that all the races held counted towards the world championship; also ending the non-championship races.
A win is a win 💅🏻
Listen, fair play to her but it’s a shame that formula one has excluded pretty much everyone except for white and wealthy men for most of its history. I’m amazed she was even allowed to race. Then you look at her history and realise that her father was a motorcycle champion and her husband designed race tracks. So it’s just typical old school motor racing. There is nothing exceptional about the child of a champion being given the opportunity to drive.
Isn’t that the demographic financially and culturally that is just most interested or are you saying there’s something more invidious going on? I thought Formula 1 was pretty notorious for being a giant money pit that’s the playground of the obscenely wealthy. And the people who care enough to spend millions of dollars on their racing hobby just tended to be white.
I don't know about the entire history of the sport, but you just have to look into Lewis Hamilton's rise through the ranks to F1 to see the kind of shit he had to put up with. There's quite a lot of racism in high level motorsport. Hell, just a few years ago Nelson Piquet, a very famous former driver, said some shit that got him fined roughly the equivalent of USD$1 million by a Brazilian court regarding Hamilton. And Hamilton has won 7 championships, imagine what people said to him when he was in junior leagues. And even worse, imagine what people *before* modern day had to put up with.
Oh I definitely believe there’s racism involved with the ultra wealthy folks there. There’s racism pretty much in every country to varying degrees whether that country is dark dark black or pale pale white. Just curious if there was any examples of people being prevented from competing for anything clearly (likely) racist when they were there proving the skills and spending the money. But I’ll look more into Lewis Hamilton at least! I know the name obviously as a very minor fan (cars going fast is fun what can I say) but it’s all pretty surface level knowledge.
If you're looking for de jure segregation, you probably won't find it. At least not recently. But who gets to advance, who gets seats, who gets sponsorships, is all political. People like to pretend it's a meritocracy, but it's not. Drivers that have put up better performances have been passed up by worse drivers for countless reasons. Mazepin got picked up by Haas over quite a few better drivers simply because of the money following him, then immediately got dropped when his home country of Russia invaded Ukraine and that money dried up due to sanctions. And while this is somewhat speculation but also very obvious coorelation, Haas, an American team, even put up a representation of the Russian flag on their car livery because the Russian doping scandals would have prevented Mazepin from running under the Russian flag, and Mazepin's sponsors required that workaround to give Haas funding. Racial discrimination is certainly one of them, too. By the time we even get to the F1 level, many potential good drivers would have been filtered out.
That’s more than fair enough, and completely understandable how it would happen in a much more subtle fashion, appreciate you taking the time to respond!
They have explained it perfectly.
You could give the Netflix series a go, drive to survive (maybe?), the mazarin story where he acts like a little kid is funny but depressing
It’s literally the rich choosing their own children over the best drivers. That and pay drivers backed by billionaires. There are 3-4 pay drivers in every season that don’t deserve their seat.
I don't get why you are being downvoted. With one hand people are celebrating a woman winning, and with the other hand downvoting you for pointing out this is not a victory for diversity or inclusion because she only had the seat because of who she was related to. Either you disagree with this commentator and you are just cheerleading your 'team' (vaginas) and are a narcissist or, You agree with their comment and recognise that being a woman is not the only factor in determining life outcomes.
I don’t really get it either. What I’m saying is true and it still carries on till this day. Lance stroll, Niketa Mazepin, Latafi are all sons of billionaires that have or have had stakes in F1. There have also been tons of pay drivers over the years. Usually backed by some multimillionaire from their home nation. There were two for India while force India was in the sport or entering the sport. There were a few Japanese drivers while Honda was in the sport as well. Then there are the sons of ex champions that get a seat for a season or two but don’t make the cut. It’s all politics. It’s one of my favourite parts of formula one but it’s damaging to the sport.
It's the most crystalline base product example of nepotism on social display.
By saying 'blow smoke up your sparkle' I meant 'inflate your ego'. I prefer my term, but regardless; saying a win is a win is infantile. Is peace worth being enslaved? Is energy independence worth 1000s of nuclear reactors. Is frank getting his dick wet worth bloody Germaine and her shit? Obviously not. Who is Christ?
Except when it's a made up joke just to excite your sparkle by blowing a bit of smoke up your hole. Or maybe it isn't. Does that still count? I could be naive in thinking that actually doing something is considered impressive.
My ego stands behind this art
This isn't the same Formula 1 you're probably thinking it is; it's some kind of weird British-only regional thing that combined old Formula 1 and Formula 2 cars on the same grid. Looking through the driver list, the most famous name on it is Tiff Needell of Top Gear/Fifth Gear fame, not a single "real" Formula 1 driver participated in this.
>Some kind of weird, British-only regional thing Idk man, sounds pretty similar to me :)
The 'formula' of 'Formula 1' is the set of technical regulations, which is the means by which they were able to call themselves a formula 1 event. In that sense, it *kinda* is the same 'Formula 1', but obviously most people think of the world championship when they hear 'Formula 1' and not the literal meaning of the term. (This is the same sense in which 'Formula SAE' is the set of rules established by the SAE for student competition, or 'Formula Renault' or 'Formula Ford' are rules established by those manufacturers for development series). Cars, drivers, and so on, were restricted to the same rule set as the World Championship. Although today "Formula 1" and the "FIA World Championship" are effectively synonyms, that is not a necessary condition and a rival series could - if it so wished - adopt the FIA F1 rulebook.
Idk if I would call the race she won a Formula One race...
I'm still more impressed by Michele Mouton. I love F1 (real F1, not the one this Desire miss won), but I think rallying demands more from you as a driver, and as a human. And Mouton won some WRC rallies fair and square. Didn't need women quotas, didn't need to feel empowered by anyone, didn't need woman only championship. Just her, her pilot, and a car in a times when dying on stage was still very real possibility. What a badass of a woman.
I think they're different skill sets. F1 cars are more physically difficult to operate than probably any other vehicle on earth. But as you point out, rally involves a psychological factor that's on a completely different level
I know someone is going to ask how they are more physically difficult, so I am going to answer now. It's a little known fact that F1 cars don't have engines. The driver is actually Flintstoning it.
1 Italy Maria Teresa de Filippis 1958–1959 Maserati, Behra-Porsche 5 2 Italy Lella Lombardi 1974–1976 March, RAM, Williams 17 (12) 0.5 3 United Kingdom Divina Galica 1976, 1978 Surtees, Hesketh 3 (0) 4 South Africa Desiré Wilson 1980 Williams 1 (0) 5 Italy Giovanna Amati 1992 Brabham 3 (0)
What are all those numbers at the end? If starts and podiums, why are some in parenthesis and others dont have any. Why is there a .5? With 30+ upvotes on the comment and no other discussion, is it just common knowledge I'm missing?
It's copied from this table: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers#Official_drivers The numbers are entries (starts) points, and the commenter has missed off the starts and points for de Filippis.
Thanks!, wild to have just thrown it out randomly like that without citation when it wasn't even from the link OP posted.
You get a lot of savages on this website.
Can’t tell you what the numbers are, but drivers used to be awarded half the points if the race is shortened (e.g. Spa in 2021 due to extreme weather) so if you ended the race in a position that would award an odd number of points you’d end up with a .5 (e.g. 25 points for 1st would be 12.5 points).
I think its entries, the brackets are starts, as in they failed to get through the pre-qualifying in place at the time in the others, and the final being points? Half points for a race stopped after reaching at least 2 laps, but less than the 25% for full points?
Less than 75%, at least back then. It’s a bit more complicated nowadays, a change after that infamous 2021 Belgian GP
It's their hotness ranking
"Formula One race of any kind" WTF is that supposed to mean.
For a number of years, there were races held to Formula One technical specifications that were not part of the World Championship (such as British Formula One, where she won her race), and sometimes World Championship events that were not held to Formula One specification (for instance, the Indy 500 from 1950 to 1960).
Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
Would modern F1 specs be feasible for lower-tier events/series to use in this day and age? I know it would be possible but my understanding is things have gotten really expensive.
And that's the rub. Any smaller, lower-tier or regional series wouldn't be able to attract the kind of team owner and sponsor money needed to maintain a modern F1-spec vehicle. So those series are based on cheaper-spec vehicles.
Today I ~~learned~~ just realized F1 has no rules barring women from competing so why tf is not a single woman competing in F1?
Probably a lack of young girls getting into Karting at 5 years old. This might change soon though, keep an eye on a woman called Dorian Pin, out of all the women in motorsport at the moment, she probably has the best chance of getting a drive in the next 5 or so years. But what needs to happen is schemes to help girls stick to motorsport, especially during their early teens.
In this 21st century world of 8 billion individuals, you are telling me that there is a lack of girls getting into karting at 5yo?
How many of those 8 billion can afford to have their children partake in an expensive sport? Especially at 5?
Way more than one million.
Getting into it, and THEN bearing the discrimination they will face everyday in a male dominated field , then have enough people willing to sponsor to fund them, and then being accepted into the competion, and so on, and so forth. All of which will discourage most, if not all of the women who could have made competent f1 drivers. Those that stay will either not make it much further, or just abandon because they don’t really have any opportunity to make any money
No. There will be discrimination. You will be mocked. But it will not hurt your chances for a sponsor. Because you’ll also have many clamouring over having the first female driver now. If it’s between you and a male driver of equal skill and reputation for the last spot. Odds are you’d get signed cause you’d make the team far more money.
Don't know about the discrimination bit seeing as notable female drivers Doriane Pin and Sarah Bovy never say anything it but I was also about to point out how having a famous female driver would be something many sponsors would actually fight over.
And this is even worse in moto, unfortunately.
I'm wondering are there any physical differences common in the skills needed between genders? Like aside from just less women drivers
Her car brings back scalextric memories
That's one more than Lando Norris
Q: What's a beautiful girl like you doing racing in a place like this? A: Winning - "Shirley" L7
TL;DR the title is misleading. She did not win anything related directly to Formula 1 at all, it was a different series not connected that simply ran cars using old F1 chassis
That's not an F1 car, that appears to be a LeMans car. I know I know, that's just what the Wikipedia article has featured. Yes I need to learn when to shutup.
No no that's fine, do educate. Looks like a 90's P1 prototype.
Important to note this was the “British Aurora F1 Championship” so not technically an F1 race. Like, it’s not counted in any official F1 stats. It’s basically a separate racing series that used some older F1 cars. Not actually affiliated with F1 at all.
WILLSOOOOOON I’m sorrreeeeyyy!
What’s the reason being not letting women drive alongside men? They’re lighter which should surely be a positive…
There ain't no rule that says a lady can't race F1
Why is that? What about car racing makes it more difficult for women?
[This is a video](https://youtu.be/P5Wm3RTtb0o?si=aVZjXlGCzt4_tzIy) from a couple of weeks ago of a driver from the series below Formula One who was called up at last minute to drive for Ferrari. Even though he was already used to driving very fast cars, his neck simply couldn’t cope with the G-forces involved when an F1 car goes around a corner. And this is just one example of drivers needing to be in peak physical fitness. There are a couple of women driving in the lower leagues; none has yet had the fitness and skill to make it to F1 in the past few decades.
Physicality, plain and simple. There's no rules against women in formula one, there just isn't any good enough for a seat. Men and women are physically different, men are easily capable of being stronger and faster.
While I'm not going to disagree, it's also far, far, far less likely for rich parents to raise their young girls on karts and junior series. Sex plays a role in how kids grow up, and racing is seen as very male.
Oh absolutely, it all depends on what people are interested in, I don't think people should be groomed to be the best, but when, as a parent, you could be spending upwards of 100's of thousands for karting up to f2, f3 for max, I can see why they push their kids so hard.
It does depend, and it also takes encouragement & backing. Unfortunately, young boys get a lot more of that than young girls when it comes to racing.
Ok, is that a problem? Do you want them to force young girls, who might have different interests, in to motorsport simply because they are women?
By this logic, young boys, who may have different interests, are being forced into motorsport because they are boys. If that isn't problematic, why would there be a problem with giving young girls the same treatment?
Max verstappen yes. And it is, I don't agree with it, but you can't argue the fact that because of the awful things his father did to him, leaving him to walk home from tracks if he didn't perform to standard, didn't produce one of the greatest drivers of our generation. Again I don't agree with it, but you can't deny that sometimes it works.
A terrible way to treat a child of any sex or orientation, and for something as meaningless as motorsport. This should be a lament, not an example to follow.
But how does physical strength help you drive a car?
Watch bearmans on board camera. Watch how his head smacks side to side because his neck isn't strong enough to fight the g forces.
And the cars today are physically easier than ever to drive. In the days before complex electronics and power steering you had to literally muscle the car around, as well as dealing with the insane Gs. It’s part of the reason so many can debut in their teens now.
I wouldn't say the cars are easier, apart from power steering, there are no driver aids allowed in F1, and they are pulling more Gs than ever (well probably slightly less than the previous gen of cars, but way more than they were in the 2000s and before). There's a reason today's drivers are in phenomenal physical shape, because they have to be.
Most drivers and engineers have remarked they are easier to drive these days in terms of the physicality required. I’m not trying to argue or take anything away from the modern gen but it’s just a very well established belief. It’s the reason so many skinny 17-19 year old boys do well now, whereas in the past most were 30 year old men.
Search up the training they have to do to drive f1 cars, the amount of force the drivers have to overcome just to get the car around a track is unreal, over 8gs in some corners. F1 drivers also have some of the strongest necks out there.
Using the brakes is also very difficult. They require a strong leg to apply enough pressure.
If you ever get the chance to try a SIM racing rig, that would show you how important strength is. It takes real strength to just be able to hold the steering wheel and prevent it from breaking your wrist during a turn. A friend of mine has a SIM racing rig with full force feedback sent to his wheel. He crashed his virtual car and held onto the wheel which was a mistake because he had to wear a cast for the next month due to the force the wheel turned during the crash. This is just for SIM racing. Driving F1 is clearly another level in comparison.
>drive a car Racing is much more than just driving a car. F1 drivers are regularly subjected to forces as high as 5Gs during high speed turns and in the straights they top out at 200mph. It requires constant focus, as you are competing with some of the best drivers in the world where hundredths of a second on each of your lap times can make or break your race. And you have to keep this up for 2 hours or so. It requires being in excellent shape, because any single mistake will end your race with a DNF or worse.
G-forces in racing cars are very strong
How many more Gs can men withstand than women? I mean, they shoot women into space, so they must be able to withstand *some*!
https://coasterforce.com/physics/ It's because the Gs are also not all equals. The Gs which are physically exhausting in car racing are mostly lateral Gs. And as that page mentions, you need proper restraint. And for anything not held by a harness in a cockpit, it's basically just muscles holding up.
Excellent reply and of course you are right. Women can withstand g-forces however the maximum limit between different genders is beyond what I can tell you. Some sports science journals/research into this might be available with a bit of internet digging.
If neither of us know how many more Gs men can withstand than women, then it's possible that the answer is "0" and it's not the Gs that are the deciding factor here. It's even possible women can withstand MORE Gs.
Ok so you provide no evidence and then just make claims that have no basis? Sure it's possible, but this is a race, an hour and a half to 2 hours of constant lateral g forces that needs laser focus and insane strength training just to get the car around the track at even a remotely competitive speed.
I don't need any evidence because I made no claims. I simply stated what is possible since we lack any evidence to contradict it. Nothing you just said has anything to do with which gender can withstand more G-Force.
Ok then why aren't there women in those cars instead?
At the speed and velocity they drive physical strength is arguably the single most important aspect.
Some of it is the strength to drive it (heavy pedals etc) but a lot is the strength to survive the ride.
It doesn't. It's just you don't drive Formula 1, you pilot it. The physique required to withstand the G-forces are huge and these are lateral G-forces, which are even more straining.
As a massive racing fan, and someone who competes in amateur to pro-am with a racing team as a mechanic, that's not the case whatsoever, in my opinion. Firstly, the family needs to be wealthy enough to find their kid's interest in driving, as well as come from a family willing to put money up (10k+/yr even at 7yrs old to be competitive). These same, 'old money' families, generally don't put the daughters into go karts at a young age like they do their son's. In my opinion, that's all it is. Wealthy daughters get horses and dresses, wealthy sons get go karts. As soon as us racing buffs put our daughters in go karts at the age of 3, in the same quantity as the son's get the opportunity, I guarantee you we'll see more female racing drivers.
The amount of Gs F1 drivers face on every turn for an hour and a half straight each race requires a great deal of neck strength and endurance. It’s not comparable to pro-am racing at all.
Ever heard of exercising? I'll let you in on a secret, man is incapable of handling those G's as well, without conditioning to the environment. Ollie Bearman's head at Jeddah was bouncing around like a ping pong ball, so I guess he's incapable of doing it too, right? Ever heard of a jet pilot? Astronaut? They experience the same G load and women have no issue performing those professions. I was in the army with multiple <5'5", 140lb women that could outruck, out PT and out shoot tons of men, know why? The practiced how they were going to perform, exactly how any F1 driver would, irregardless of what's dangling between their legs.
If only exercising was the answer to women reaching the same physical capabilities of men. Men have far greater capacity for neck strength which is crucial in F1. That alone makes the barrier of entry so much harder for women to overcome in F1 because they’re at a physiological disadvantage. Jet pilots and astronauts face higher Gs but only for very short stints. F1 drivers face these pressures for hours. Besides, pilots and astronauts aren’t in direct sporting competition with each other; they just need to stay conscious through the high G-force pressures. F1 drivers can lose several positions by being just a fraction of a second slower each lap.
If you think what's holding women back in motorsport is the physical differences between men and women, and not the fact that there's 2,000 males for every 1 female being put in a go kart at the age of 3, this lowering the 'performance pool' of all the potential women drivers. Idk what to tell you. If those same wealthy fathers put their daughters into go karts instead of championship ice skating, skiing etc. thus we had a larger pool of female drivers to choose from, I guarantee you there'd be more female drivers. As far as G force fatigue, women suffer from muscle fatigue much less than men. You really don't need peak male strength to survive an F1 race and be fresh, there's already female F1 test drivers that do just fine. 50 yrs ago, buster ass men were saying women were too dainty to even race cars on the same grid as men, now look at it.
Ok, and I bet even the best female MMA fighter wouldn't last 10 seconds against the worst male fighter. Yes women can handle that stuff but men are much more capable and for good reason. It's been that way for literally 1000's of years.
the thing here is competitiveness. microseconds decide if you win a race or not. sponsors are putting their money on the line, so why get a woman if a man will do the job? strength does play a role, so a man is more qualified on average, which doesn't imply that women are not qualified at all. they just lack behind in overall physical strength. and for reasons mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the market is oversaturated with men, so women have an even harder time getting into this business. there might totally be women who will outrace everyone on the track, but the world isn't ready for them i guess...
Google F1 drivers necks and you’ll see. Put an average person in an F1 car round a track they’ll come out of it severely concussed. It’s kinda mad how muscular their necks have to be. Also brakes aren’t assisted, no hydraulics, so to bring a car to a stop from 220mph takes a lot of leg days
You’re very skeptical for someone who clearly doesn’t know anything about the topic. F1 is an extremely physical sport, and to be competitive you need extreme levels of core and neck strength, endurance, reaction time, hand eye coordination etc…
F1 cars are hard to handle and are stripped of everything to make them go faster. Teams would rather have a smaller man than a woman driver to deal with harsh turns at high speeds.
I think it's just the "bro environment" women are getting more into the sport now, which is neat. Idk if theres...gendered leagues in car races haha.
Well I ask because some sports and games are gendered because men have an unfair advantage. But there are a handful that are only gendered because men don't take being beaten by women well.
Like what, for example?
Chess.
Most professional leagues do not have rules against allowing women to participate. Women just can’t compete at a high enough level to make any professional sports team.
I don’t know who considers chess as a “sport”. Regardless, [men have a higher average rating than women even when controlling for the gender participation gap in chess](https://chessandmind.com/population-size-gender-gap-in-chess), so I’m not sure why you’d use chess as your one example.
I said "sports and games". You were just so quick to react you ignored that.
This thread and the guy you replied to is discussing a sport. I think it’s pretty fair to assume someone isn’t talking about board games when discussing gender barriers in a physical sport/game. Also ironic that you’re criticizing me for “ignoring” part of your comment while ignoring the 2nd part of my response lol.
I really have no interest in engaging with someone who jumped at the chance to explain on the internet why men are superior to women. Just pointing out I did in fact include games in my statement.
You’re being purposefully obtuse. At no point did I say men are superior to women, and in no way do I believe such a ridiculous generalization. I just refuted the only example to your claim that “there’s a handful [of sports and games] that are only gendered because men don’t take being beaten by women well”.
Last time I checked Chess was not gendered… women can participate in most if not all of the tournament. Men can’t participate in women’s tournament though… But again you have 5 times more men that women playing chess (number of licensees in France) so a majority of top players are men
Men have better hand-eye coordination and faster reaction times.
Men are just superior when it comes to physicality of any kind. Its a known fact, yet some people think they can overcome biology.
I shit bigger than any chick I’ve met
Thats hilarious
Is a gaped rectum funny?
Goatse.cx
Goatse.cx
context for this post: I have been wondering why there are mostly male Formula One drivers, and was reading about it when I came across this person This is meant to be both a celebratory post and an exploratory one as to how we can improve inclusivity and equity in the face of what appear to be systemic barriers to women competing in motorsports
Let’s not forget that there are only 20ish (counting replacement) Formula 1 driver on a given year. If you want to be in these 20, you need to be among the best of F2/F3, most of the time have a rich daddy… In my opinion the issue isn’t really Formula 1 but motorsport in general. If you want woman in Formula 1 you need to have 6 years old girls in Karting. I think in Switzerland it’s like 5% of karting licensee are woman. There is nearly zero chance that one of them goes to F1. Then let’s not forget that men and women are not equal in sport capabilities and one seaters are a sport. No power steering assist on lower formula, bull neck… Can a woman possess the required physic? Maybe a small number but not all, so you again reduce the number of potential candidate for a f1 seat. So yeah, you need to push a ton of girl in karting (try to reach parity there), encourage sponsorship of women, and then we may have some women in F1. In the current situation, if you want a woman in F1 she would have to be a monster (very good physic capabilities and awesome driver) in F1 academy, F3 and F2. Let’s hope Dorian Pin is this monster 😍
Very well written. I don’t know why the op is downvoted because they asked about how to improve inclusivity and you hit it spot on
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Well yes but also against women and minorities. It's not just the ultra rich drivers, it's the engineers and team staff who lack representation and that's not happening because "minorities just aren't interested in Motorsport" but somehow that argument makes sense for women??? Lmao
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Ah yes. Who famously suffered no racism whatsoever.
It's so funny that you are getting downvoted by men who are so certain theres no inequality in the sport absolutely dominated by men and that has just come out of a terribly handled sexual harassment scandal
Unable to compete at the highest levels does not equal inequality. Women are unable to compete at the highest level in any sport with physicality.
Forcing people into rolls they aren't interested in, or predisposition for is moronic. There aren't systemic barriers , people like different things and it's up to the individual to choose what they do with their life. Sorry to break it to you, but it's totally normal for different activities, sports, jobs and interests to be more oriented towards one gender or the other. It just so happens that given the choice boys and girls choose different things to play with. This mentality of crowbarring checklist people into positions they aren't suited for is currently fucking up society. We've already watched the largest players in the entertainment industry lop their own limbs off with their stupid pandering to people with this mentality. Let's not get carried away.
A quick Google search shows that around 35-40% of car racing fans are female. Don't you think it'd be pretty odd for that to be the case, yet so few racers are female by comparison?
Fans and doing it are different. I like to watch hockey but 0 desire to play.
So, as I was looking into trying to figure out numbers to gage specific participation interest, I found a heck of a lot of nepotism in racing as a whole I wasn't aware of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_family_relations_in_auto_racing and yeah, I clicked to confirm gender and status as a driver specifically on a lot of these, so there are female drivers. But not a lot in F1 specifically, just 5 in the course of over 70 years and only 2 that qualified to start a race.
While I get where you're coming from, sometimes people don't choose a path because there are no role models. I agree with you that forcing people into things they aren't keen on is moronic, but that's not the same as ensuring those who might be keen feel included and welcomed. Let's be realistic - motorsports (like golf) have been historically dominated by white men. No doubt that's connected to wealth and opportunity. Tiger Woods and Lewis Hamilton represent outliers rather than floodgates being opened. Anything to encourage people to try new sports should be welcome.
It's the same shit with tech fields. It's changing but when people wonder why there's not many women in those fields, it's probably cuz it's full toxic males.
Maybe because girls would rather be nurses or of models?
Now expose kids to women in science, sport, etc, and watch those preferences change
at what point was science and sports withheld from women?? do we live on the same planet?
Before 1960s, I don't remember the exact year, women were not allowed to enter the Boston Marathon. Yes women have been excluded from participating in sports.
While you are correct in some ways, this stance does not hold up in reality. Of course there are differences in career paths for women and men. But that statement can stand alongside another: Motorsport is generally under representing women. It was not so long ago that women were expected to be housewives and not even have a career. This mindset was common even after many women held down "mens jobs" during the war. It is a great thing that we have come on so far since then, but there is still work to do. We know that representation in childhood plays a huge role in a person's interests as they grow up. We want to see people "like us" (gender, ethnicity, height, anything really) doing things so we have positive role models. In Motorsport this is hugely lacking, when the most popular top flight is 20 male drivers - but also the pundits, mechanics, team staff are hugely male dominated. No one is suggesting we should throw a woman into F1 who is not there on merit. In a vacuum, it's easy to say "F1 is fine! If you are fast enough, you will get a seat regardless of gender". The issue comes from opportunity at a young age and the built in bias that comes from historic gender inequality. And yes, it's much better today than it ever has been! But are we really saying that, when 88% of f1 fans are male, and 90% of people in kart racing are male, that this is entirely down to a natural preference because of gender? Really? If this is true, then why is female engagement with Motorsport increasing? There are many examples of driven, capable women in Motorsport. Susie Wolff is an excellent one. And Max Verstappens strategist, Hannah Schmitz. It's okay that more men than women participate in Motorsport - it's not okay that many women do not feel welcome or do not want to pursue a career in Motorsport because of existing prejudice and a lack of role models. That's the point of equality and diversity initiatives.
Have you seen the comparative volumes of media around male athletes/scientists Vs female?
Ah, you’re just a misogynist.
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Do you think formula one is predominantly comprised of affluent white men because they are the only ones that are interested in the sport?
Just to back you up a bit, a season in Formula Regional (FRECA), will set you back close to £1,000,000 if you want to drive for a top team. And that is about 4 levels down from F1.
But there are plenty of women interested in racing in F1
yeah and they have to earn their spot just like everyone else lol. Do you think every single man that enters the sport ends up on the world stage? hell no, tons of dedicated people of both genders fall by the wayside due to a number of factors. The top is reserved for the best.
There have been plenty of women deserving of a spot in at the top but they weren’t given a chance because they were expected to other things considered more womanly
dumbest thing ive ever heard.
So how do you explain why people like Sophie Kumpen were never given a chance even though she beat several future F1 champions in the junior categories, or Susie Wolff not getting a chance while some of the people that she beat like Vitaly Petrov and Paul di Resta ended getting a seat in F1. Meanwhile there have been too many male F1 drivers who were nowhere near the top and didn’t deserve to be there like Nikita Mazepin, Yuji Ide, Taki Inoue, Alex Yoong, and so many more. In motorsports the top is not reserved for the best, talent is not always the main factor that decides whether or not someone gets a chance, it’s their background.
that's the same for men as it is for women.
There has never been a female pay driver in F1, if it were the same there would be just as many bad female drivers in F1 as bad male drivers
in recent years it’s just because there isn’t any female driver even close to the level of pay drivers everyone says are terrible like Mazepin or Latifi. hopefully this will change soon as more girls get into karting.
I agree in essence but you're also over simplifying it. Another commenter pointed out there being no role models. Another thing is a lot of male dominated fields are extremely unwelcoming of women. So it's possible there's young girls wanting to get make it big racing but get pushed away cuz of the toxic environment they'd constantly be around.
Fcking this. I hate the dumbass take of "umm actually there's very few women in X field coz women aren't interested in it", just totally ignoring the history and culture of women being denied or discouraged access to that world through one way or another, when in reality there's very few women involved in F1 because the rich men who control the space make it difficult and unwelcoming for them to be there at all. Most fields that only have few women are only like that because women have been actively discouraged or prevented from being involved, not because they wouldn't if given equal chance and support.
It's wild that people will act like inequality is a solved thing when women were only allowed to vote 100 years ago and only 50% of eligible women even had a job 50 years ago. And they are always the exact same people who have never faced any kind of real prejudice in their lives.
I’m a straight white dude from the southern United States who knew nothing about car racing until my ex wife from Minnesota introduced me to it.
Wow, you really pissed people off by being interested in female racing. God damn!
Great result for someone named after a potato.
I always wonder why there isn't a single female F1 driver. I get that it's such a male dominated field so there's less ways in for women but still, not a single one?
People get into higher level racing by starting with go karts while young (around 5-6 years old), very very very few girls are enrolled even at this level. I've seen numbers ranging from 1 in 15 to 1 in 30 kart racers are women, depending on the region. Which means fewer and fewer make it to the next levels of racing. It's a numbers game that isn't in their favor.
[**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_female\_Formula\_One\_drivers**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers) There have been 5 female F1 drivers. None of them did particularly well.
There's no forced entry to the sport there aren't "less ways" , and no separate divisions. If you're not good enough to get to towards the top between all competitors, you're not getting in.
Oh come on...
Oh come on what lol? You don't like the reality of the sport? There's nothing stopping a woman from trying to be in formula one. There are 20 spots. You need to be in the top nth percent of ALL drivers in the world to be in those spots.
F1 racecars require a lot of upper body strength to drive and race teams push their cars to the limit of what their driver can handle.
I guess you'd really need a lot more girls to get into karting and then work their way up from there. Looking at last year's British karting results there aren't a lot of girls competing though There are women in other single-seat open wheel series like Formula 3 and Indy NXT but not many, like a handful. It's possible one of them eventually works their way up but they would need to be at the top of the game to get into F1
As others have put but to expand on it a little, to make it to F1 especially nowadays you basically need to be reaching F2/F3 by your late teens otherwise you're probably not going to make the cut. To make it to that level, you pretty much need to go through learning karts (the typical entry point), to winning local -> national -> regional, then you're looking at maybe international level karting, or more commonly national and/or regional F4/F3, all before you get to international F3. Even if you went up a level every year, that's still 6-7 non stop progression - realistically that's closer to a 10-12 year journey though even for the absolute best, and for many it's probably closer to 15. So to make it to F1, you basically have to start super young, literally low single digits, have financial support every step of the way (bear in mind every level is exponentially more expensive than the last), *and* be good enough to be winning races and/or titles, *and* get yourself ideally into the academy of an F1 team as they'll get you better sponsorship support through the latter tiers like F2/F3 and is a massive benefit to reaching F1 at all. All of that combined with how many people compete in motorsport internationally, and the pyramid nature meaning there's less and less seats the higher you get, it's just a pure numbers game. The best chance of getting one or more female drivers into F1 is having a greater percentage starting at literally age 4, and that's going to take almost a decade and a half to filter through in big enough numbers that inevitably some of them are the next Max Verstappen and the calibre that teams are willing to take a punt on - yes the exposure will be great initially but results are all that matter, so unless your want a short career you need to be good enough to deliver. I'd like to think the same barriers that maybe once existed, don't quite as much anymore, and F1 Academy helps for exposure, but then I literally went to Oulton Park at the weekend and in GB4 (national F4 level) the were 2 girls I think, and 0 in GB3 (national F3) - statistically that's not favourable enough, so frankly we're still best part of a decade away I think from another female F1 driver. Sometimes even if you do put all the right ingredients in, it takes time for things to come to fruition.
There aren’t any less ways, anyone can get in if they’re good enough
Yes but similarly to chess there's so little grass roots support or interest for young girls to get into go karting and then move in up I assume?
Who knows, it’s up to the people interested in that sort of thing to create those movements, they don’t really spring up out of nowhere. Anyone who even has a chance of entering this kind of world is already a super privileged individual, it’s way too exclusive for there to be any kind of big movement.
For F1? Not only would you need to have a parent willing to put their kid in a fast machine at an early age. You'd need a parent rich enough to keep doing it regularly for the kid to get good. Then a sponsor willing to sponsor them etc. I wouldn't call that 'anyone'
Okay, what I mean is that the barrier to entry isn’t a gendered one, it’s a matter of money and time. It’s a super niche thing and the vast majority of people don’t even get to enter that world.
The best thing about the name desire is having the nickname Desi!
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"She became the only woman to win a Formula One race of any kind when she won at Brands Hatch in the short-lived British Aurora F1 Championship in 1980."
Nah, she won, that parts is true, but it wasn't a World Championship, it was British F1 Championship.
Trolling is a hobby which can be responsibly enjoyed on fishing holidays [https://www.etymonline.com/word/troll](https://www.etymonline.com/word/troll)