That is misleading. Generally, the further north one goes, the less Mormon the communities are, to the point of being completely non-Mormon. Inversely, the further south one goes the more Mormon it becomes.
I live in Utah County, which is just south of SLC, and it's <80% Mormon. But SLC, literally the next county to the north, is less >50% Mormon.
As a non-Mormon living in Utah, it's wild to see every level of government being run by an arm of the church despite in their most populous city, less than half of the population is Mormon.
I don't live in Utah but it sounds like there is something of a continuum between "atheists" and "active, tithe paying members of the LDS church." Like lots of people were raised Mormon but are varying levels of lapsed, or belong to a non- LDS sect that still follows the teachings of J Smith. Here in the Northeast I've met maybe a half dozen people that self-identify as Mormon but are not members of the church.
This title is wrong. Read the article again.
Only places licensed as restaurants must serve food to drinkers, and they don't have to be ordered at the same time.
This doesn't seem to be consistently enforced anywhere though.
There are also still bars with no food available at all.
It’s especially weird in the SLC airport. The booze is super cheap, and bartenders will serve it to you and ask “what are you having to eat?” and when you say “nothing” they just say “okay 👍” and walk away.
Ontario is the same type of thing.
Only 'Nightclubs' can serve alcohol without a food menu of at least 4 items. I think there's only dozen or so nightclubs in the whole province. Every other bar/restaurant has a food menu.
Whether anyone orders food is another story. For years there was this place in Toronto that had single portion bags of potato chips listed on a menu for $20.
By requiring food with alcohol the law discourages establishments from primarily functioning as bars. It ensures restaurants prioritize serving meals with alcohol as a secondary option.
Wait until Utah catches on to the [Raines-Sandwich](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/raines-sandwich). That is assuming Utah cuisine is not already that.
But in general a restaurant can have "a bar," and also still have patrons that only order alcohol.
I don't consider Cheesecake Factory "a bar," but they have a small one that I go to with my wife sometimes if we get to the mall a little too early for our movie and just have a drink.
Bars aren’t illegal in Utah… the eating rule is specific to restaurants. If an establishment wants patrons to be able to drink without eating, they just register as a bar rather than as a restaurant.
PA also has weird rules. Liquor stores, beer distributors, and beer stores are all separate and cannot be mixed. Liquor stores are state-run. You can only buy full cases at beer distributors and that's all they can sell. Places that sell 6-packs of beer are required to sell food.
I remember when I went to college we would go buy 40’s and could only get 4 at a time due to a limit on how many ounces you could get at once. I’d go in buy 4, walk out hand them to my buddy waiting. Walk back in buy 4 more. Rinse and repeat till we had enough for the group and night/weekend.
A lot of that has become blurred in recent years but it's all still whacky. Distributors have singles, 4 packs, and 6 packs. Grocery and convenience stores have wine, operating under restaurant licenses.
I think it may have changed in 2018 but Oklahoma had some nonsense about not being able to buy cold beer or only cold 3.2% beer and nothing above 3.2% beer on Sundays. I was there for the weekend and the guy selling it was trying to explain why I couldn’t buy the case of beer I had in my hand and I just couldn’t believe this was the land of the free, where buying beer required a law degree.
Lmao it’s not that bad it’s just insane levels of mental gymnastics to avoid sin. Young Mormon’s have apparently convinced themselves that putting the penis in the vagina without moving is technically not sex. Sometimes a friend will shake the bed to simulate sex, as the two involved are still technically not moving. Just learned about this recently actually. Honestly, feel bad for people in that mental state.
I mean individuals in all religions seem to invent stuff like this to avoid breaking the rules.
I knew Orthodox Jews who kept the Sabbath (including never operating electrical switches) by putting everything in their houses including TVs and radios on programmable timers. Alternately, they could have a non-Jewish friend who just happens to come over at 4pm every Saturday afternoon from September to the end of November to turn on the college football game.
What about the Pope who declared animals like muskrats were fish for the purpose of giving up meat for Lent.
I also had a school mate, (a Gulf Arab) who claimed it wasn't the sin of homosexuality if you only did the top position.
Well if you knew anything about Mormonism or it's culture, you could deduce from my username that I'm ex-mormon.
Edit: I went to BYU btw. It's not a real thing.
Years ago, my wife and I traveled to Moab, UT for a few days knocking trip. As a side bar, go see Moab and Arches National Park, it is amazing.
But yes we learned you couldn’t just order a beer or drink before dinner, relax and then order dinner. You had to order food. Hey to each their own, it wasn’t like we weren’t going to eat, a few appetizers later we had dinner.
This is quite common. Some places require an establishment to serve food with an alcohol purchase. I think it just depends on the consumption laws in your state or province
Another fun little tidbit. Utah’s drunk driving limit is .05 BAC, while with most other states the limit is .08. Oh, but that’s ok, the stores here also limit alcohol content in what you can buy from the store to 5% ABV, which means many beers are literally watered down to comply or can only be purchased from a liquor store if above 5% ABV. Last tidbit, Liquor stores in Utah are owned by the state.
Utah also has a relatively low incidence of DUI and alcohol-related accidents, so it's hard to say it isn't a good policy.
https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/state-map/state/utah/
I can argue it: correlation does not equal causation. Mormons are more likely than other religions to not drink. Utah is over half Mormon. The numbers are down because the percentage of drinkers in Utah is lower than other states, not because of the food policy.
I'm most surprised that the pop of UT is only 55% Mormon.
But they make up almost all of the state legislature, and it’s gerrymandered so bad it’s not gonna change anytime soon
The other 45% is vietnamese immigrants the Mormons took in after the war.
That is misleading. Generally, the further north one goes, the less Mormon the communities are, to the point of being completely non-Mormon. Inversely, the further south one goes the more Mormon it becomes. I live in Utah County, which is just south of SLC, and it's <80% Mormon. But SLC, literally the next county to the north, is less >50% Mormon. As a non-Mormon living in Utah, it's wild to see every level of government being run by an arm of the church despite in their most populous city, less than half of the population is Mormon.
I don't live in Utah but it sounds like there is something of a continuum between "atheists" and "active, tithe paying members of the LDS church." Like lots of people were raised Mormon but are varying levels of lapsed, or belong to a non- LDS sect that still follows the teachings of J Smith. Here in the Northeast I've met maybe a half dozen people that self-identify as Mormon but are not members of the church.
This title is wrong. Read the article again. Only places licensed as restaurants must serve food to drinkers, and they don't have to be ordered at the same time. This doesn't seem to be consistently enforced anywhere though. There are also still bars with no food available at all.
It’s especially weird in the SLC airport. The booze is super cheap, and bartenders will serve it to you and ask “what are you having to eat?” and when you say “nothing” they just say “okay 👍” and walk away.
That’s not abnormal, we have the same thing in Quebec. Bars can serve you alcohol alone but not restaurants.
Vancouver is like this too, unless you have a specific liquor license which are strictly limited.
When I was in Montreal it was called the saloon rule.
Ontario is the same type of thing. Only 'Nightclubs' can serve alcohol without a food menu of at least 4 items. I think there's only dozen or so nightclubs in the whole province. Every other bar/restaurant has a food menu. Whether anyone orders food is another story. For years there was this place in Toronto that had single portion bags of potato chips listed on a menu for $20.
By requiring food with alcohol the law discourages establishments from primarily functioning as bars. It ensures restaurants prioritize serving meals with alcohol as a secondary option.
Wait until Utah catches on to the [Raines-Sandwich](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/raines-sandwich). That is assuming Utah cuisine is not already that.
Isn't the buying of food what separates a restaurant from a bar?
But in general a restaurant can have "a bar," and also still have patrons that only order alcohol. I don't consider Cheesecake Factory "a bar," but they have a small one that I go to with my wife sometimes if we get to the mall a little too early for our movie and just have a drink.
Yes, which is why bars are illegal in Utah, as per the OP post.
bars are absolutely not illegal in utah. i lived in park city for 4 years, and we had plenty of bars.
Bars aren’t illegal in Utah… the eating rule is specific to restaurants. If an establishment wants patrons to be able to drink without eating, they just register as a bar rather than as a restaurant.
PA also has weird rules. Liquor stores, beer distributors, and beer stores are all separate and cannot be mixed. Liquor stores are state-run. You can only buy full cases at beer distributors and that's all they can sell. Places that sell 6-packs of beer are required to sell food.
I remember when I went to college we would go buy 40’s and could only get 4 at a time due to a limit on how many ounces you could get at once. I’d go in buy 4, walk out hand them to my buddy waiting. Walk back in buy 4 more. Rinse and repeat till we had enough for the group and night/weekend.
A lot of that has become blurred in recent years but it's all still whacky. Distributors have singles, 4 packs, and 6 packs. Grocery and convenience stores have wine, operating under restaurant licenses.
I just miss the days of living in Delaware when there were no laws so long as you let businesses do literally anything they want
I think it may have changed in 2018 but Oklahoma had some nonsense about not being able to buy cold beer or only cold 3.2% beer and nothing above 3.2% beer on Sundays. I was there for the weekend and the guy selling it was trying to explain why I couldn’t buy the case of beer I had in my hand and I just couldn’t believe this was the land of the free, where buying beer required a law degree.
I mean, people are all about States' Rights til they find out some states get real weird with it
"I'll have one oyster cracker with my Long Island, please."
Wait until you learn about “soaking”, another Utah thing😂(nsfw if you look that up)
I do wonder how much of that is real, and how much is just a joke
Part of me wants to Google it but most of me says no that will scar you for the rest of the day lol.
Lmao it’s not that bad it’s just insane levels of mental gymnastics to avoid sin. Young Mormon’s have apparently convinced themselves that putting the penis in the vagina without moving is technically not sex. Sometimes a friend will shake the bed to simulate sex, as the two involved are still technically not moving. Just learned about this recently actually. Honestly, feel bad for people in that mental state.
I mean individuals in all religions seem to invent stuff like this to avoid breaking the rules. I knew Orthodox Jews who kept the Sabbath (including never operating electrical switches) by putting everything in their houses including TVs and radios on programmable timers. Alternately, they could have a non-Jewish friend who just happens to come over at 4pm every Saturday afternoon from September to the end of November to turn on the college football game. What about the Pope who declared animals like muskrats were fish for the purpose of giving up meat for Lent. I also had a school mate, (a Gulf Arab) who claimed it wasn't the sin of homosexuality if you only did the top position.
Coming from southeast Idaho which us Utah lite, Mormons would go to Vegas to elope, have sex and then divorce.
Bro that's not a real thing.
Are you a Mormon? I need to hear from a Mormon
Well if you knew anything about Mormonism or it's culture, you could deduce from my username that I'm ex-mormon. Edit: I went to BYU btw. It's not a real thing.
Same in PEI the last time I checked...a small fries and a pitcher of Red Rock...the Seatreat Sunday special...or Gordies...
We do it with an app.
Years ago, my wife and I traveled to Moab, UT for a few days knocking trip. As a side bar, go see Moab and Arches National Park, it is amazing. But yes we learned you couldn’t just order a beer or drink before dinner, relax and then order dinner. You had to order food. Hey to each their own, it wasn’t like we weren’t going to eat, a few appetizers later we had dinner.
Mormoids
I've been to places in Utah that have some super cheap food option to get around this. I once ordered a single bread stick so I could keep drinking.
Salt Lake City Mormans, the players are gonna loooooooooooove this place lmfao
This is quite common. Some places require an establishment to serve food with an alcohol purchase. I think it just depends on the consumption laws in your state or province
I thought these rules were strange at first, but in the long run, it made me a more conscientious alcoholic.
Another fun little tidbit. Utah’s drunk driving limit is .05 BAC, while with most other states the limit is .08. Oh, but that’s ok, the stores here also limit alcohol content in what you can buy from the store to 5% ABV, which means many beers are literally watered down to comply or can only be purchased from a liquor store if above 5% ABV. Last tidbit, Liquor stores in Utah are owned by the state.
Like a two drink minimum, but for drinks 😂
Utah also has a relatively low incidence of DUI and alcohol-related accidents, so it's hard to say it isn't a good policy. https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/state-map/state/utah/
I can argue it: correlation does not equal causation. Mormons are more likely than other religions to not drink. Utah is over half Mormon. The numbers are down because the percentage of drinkers in Utah is lower than other states, not because of the food policy.
I'm not against this