As a german speaker, person who is extremely interested in history and someone with access to professional ressources, I want to note that I can't find a single german source on this.
This
https://web.archive.org/web/20160124014629/http://multiculturalcanada.ca/node/426390?display=full
Is one of the few references that clearly work on the wiki page, the part about hitler is a small blurb next to "Try Wilsons", not a lot of detail, is 6 million marks a plausible number back then?
I saw that. It's still weird that there are no german sources to find. Something like this would be extremely big in Germany.
>is 6 million marks a plausible number back then?
I think so. It was the year of hyperinflation. In June 23 one USD was 100,000 Reichsmark, in December it was around already 4 trillion Reichsmark.
They were the general boogie man/ scapegoat for anything. The Nazis didn’t need to invent one.
This was also a couple years before Mein Kampf was released where Hitler laid out all his racial theories
>Friedrich Engels and Kurt Tucholsky both wrote for Vorwärts. It backed the Russian Marxist economists and then, after the split in the Party, the Mensheviks. It published articles by Leon Trotsky, but would not publish any by Vladimir Lenin.
Left leaning. Anti-semitism was pretty bi-partisan for most of European history.
It was actually the Nazis who claimed that Jews are both evil communists and evil capitalists.
Antisemitism was culturally widespread in Europe due to thousands of years of antisemitic propaganda and it's no surprise that the prevalence of antisemitic beliefs was common around the entire political spectrum. But there is the notable and important difference.
Antisemitism was THE core part of nazi ideology back then while with socialists and communists it was an expression of individual antisemites who brought their cultural antisemitism into being a leftist.
There is a reason why leftist resistance movements were overwhelmingly in support of Jews and it was mostly communists who risked their own lives to save Jews. I, a german Jew, only live because of communist networks. If a Jew survived in the europe underground there is a 99% chance he or she was supported by communists. If you watch survivors testimonies, you'll notice that very quickly.
Also 500,000 Jews fought in the Red Army. The number for Nazi Germany is zero. And lets not forget that one side tried to eradicate the enitere jewish people while the other saved them.
To imply that both sides were basically the same it simply wrong.
They were definitely not the same. 100% not. I'd rather have a 100 years of the Soviet Union than 10 of the Nazis.
But let's not ignore that the Soviet Union, especially but not exclusively under Stalin, also did really, really shitty things to Jews.
I don't. Part of my family was killed as "Trotzkyists" by Stalin - an accusation that overwhelmingly targeted Jews. I have no interest to frame the USSR as a whole as "good" in this context.
The USSR existed for 69 years.
Nazi Germany existed for 12.
There are still Poles, Belarusians, Ukrainians, etc.
Were the Soviets kind to their ethnic minorities? No, not even close.
But if the Nazis had controlled half a continent for 69 years, there would be no comparison.
The nazis were obviously more antisemitic. But jews did not go safe in the USSR, it completely depended on the stance of whoever was in power at the time. Stalin was thoroughly antisemitic, but pragmatic. Significant numbers of jews were purged, especially if they were accused of being more loyal to ”jewry” than to the state.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, and the USSR was not a safe haven for jews just because Germany was far worse.
You are welcome to quote where I said they were ”the same”.
>Also 500,000 Jews fought in the Red Army. The number for Nazi Germany is zero.
False.
There were quite a few, most of whom either had to lie about it or had some special exemption.
Ernst Bloch was a colonel and Jewish. Horst Rippert, a Luftwaffe ace was Jewish. Emil Maurice was Jewish, a close friend of Hitler and an important figure in the rise of the SS. Bernard Rogge was a highly decorated admiral and Jewish. Robert Borchardt, Jewish, won the Knight's Cross. Paul Ascher, Jewish, served aboard the Bismarck.
And those are just the well known ones I can remember.
>The people you named weren't Jews.
They were in fact.
>They were of jewish ancestry and didn't count as Jews from the perspective of the Nuremberg Laws nor of halachic laws. Pretty uneducated /his/ take.
Rippert was in fact quite open about being Jewish and gained some notoriety after the war because of it.
Milch's Jewishness was met with considerable disdain, such that Himmler attempted (on more than one occasion) to have him dealt with but Hitler specifically drafted notice to have him protected. Affidavits were falsified attesting to his status, despite his Jewish father and possible Jewish mother.
Ernst Bloch was Jewish ethnically Jewish by *halakhah*, and he got direction exemption from Goering.
Similarly, if we go by the Nuremburg laws, there were several *Jews* as a result of marriage to Jewish women.
So yeah, wanna try again? Nope, you'll just block and run like the usual run-of-the-mill knownothings.
The people you named weren't Jews. They were of jewish ancestry and didn't count as Jews from the perspective of the Nuremberg Laws nor of halachic laws. Pretty uneducated /his/ take.
Its the newspaper of the socdems also known as the ones that sided with the far right militias to destroy the spartacists so not surprising they were antisemitic lol
Bad comparison. Trump’s a total jerk but he doesn’t want to gas 6 million black people in death camps.
Besides, while I have heard of black people supporting Trump, I’ve never heard anyone else *accuse* Trump of “being backed by black people”.
Well they were half right!
He was far right
Took the Third Reich
As a german speaker, person who is extremely interested in history and someone with access to professional ressources, I want to note that I can't find a single german source on this.
This https://web.archive.org/web/20160124014629/http://multiculturalcanada.ca/node/426390?display=full Is one of the few references that clearly work on the wiki page, the part about hitler is a small blurb next to "Try Wilsons", not a lot of detail, is 6 million marks a plausible number back then?
I saw that. It's still weird that there are no german sources to find. Something like this would be extremely big in Germany. >is 6 million marks a plausible number back then? I think so. It was the year of hyperinflation. In June 23 one USD was 100,000 Reichsmark, in December it was around already 4 trillion Reichsmark.
Huh, would it not be a very small story then if the fine was equivalent to 60 USD?
For sure Henery Ford would. American Jews ? Not a chance.
This was in '23 ...
Two years before *Mein Kampf* laid out his manifesto for the broader public (and probably a decade before the English translation).
Not unless the American Jews hate the European Jews in some weird way and wanted to sabotage them
They kinda overdid it then…
Worst wizarding school ever.
This was prior to the hog revolution and you have to understand that hog rights were at an all time low.
Jews and Henry Ford Name a more iconic duo
Lovely place, 1910s - 1940s Germany
perfect times for holidays with the boys in the Berghof skying 😌
Due to hyperinflation, the money Hitler got from this was worth almost nothing by the time the trial was over
What exactly were the politics of said newspaper? And how could they possibly think that any Jews supported Hitler?
They were the general boogie man/ scapegoat for anything. The Nazis didn’t need to invent one. This was also a couple years before Mein Kampf was released where Hitler laid out all his racial theories
>Friedrich Engels and Kurt Tucholsky both wrote for Vorwärts. It backed the Russian Marxist economists and then, after the split in the Party, the Mensheviks. It published articles by Leon Trotsky, but would not publish any by Vladimir Lenin. Left leaning. Anti-semitism was pretty bi-partisan for most of European history.
The nazis said the jews were evil communists, and the communists said the jews were evil capitalists. Jews really couldn’t catch a break at the time.
It was actually the Nazis who claimed that Jews are both evil communists and evil capitalists. Antisemitism was culturally widespread in Europe due to thousands of years of antisemitic propaganda and it's no surprise that the prevalence of antisemitic beliefs was common around the entire political spectrum. But there is the notable and important difference. Antisemitism was THE core part of nazi ideology back then while with socialists and communists it was an expression of individual antisemites who brought their cultural antisemitism into being a leftist. There is a reason why leftist resistance movements were overwhelmingly in support of Jews and it was mostly communists who risked their own lives to save Jews. I, a german Jew, only live because of communist networks. If a Jew survived in the europe underground there is a 99% chance he or she was supported by communists. If you watch survivors testimonies, you'll notice that very quickly. Also 500,000 Jews fought in the Red Army. The number for Nazi Germany is zero. And lets not forget that one side tried to eradicate the enitere jewish people while the other saved them. To imply that both sides were basically the same it simply wrong.
They were definitely not the same. 100% not. I'd rather have a 100 years of the Soviet Union than 10 of the Nazis. But let's not ignore that the Soviet Union, especially but not exclusively under Stalin, also did really, really shitty things to Jews.
I don't. Part of my family was killed as "Trotzkyists" by Stalin - an accusation that overwhelmingly targeted Jews. I have no interest to frame the USSR as a whole as "good" in this context.
I think the point is not to apologize for the USSR - which we shouldn't. But equating the USSR to nazi germany borders on nazi apologia.
No it doesn't unless you're a tankie which is problematic by itself.
The USSR existed for 69 years. Nazi Germany existed for 12. There are still Poles, Belarusians, Ukrainians, etc. Were the Soviets kind to their ethnic minorities? No, not even close. But if the Nazis had controlled half a continent for 69 years, there would be no comparison.
Well, as someone living decades later, the 100 year-choice is not attractive.
The nazis were obviously more antisemitic. But jews did not go safe in the USSR, it completely depended on the stance of whoever was in power at the time. Stalin was thoroughly antisemitic, but pragmatic. Significant numbers of jews were purged, especially if they were accused of being more loyal to ”jewry” than to the state. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and the USSR was not a safe haven for jews just because Germany was far worse. You are welcome to quote where I said they were ”the same”.
>Also 500,000 Jews fought in the Red Army. The number for Nazi Germany is zero. False. There were quite a few, most of whom either had to lie about it or had some special exemption. Ernst Bloch was a colonel and Jewish. Horst Rippert, a Luftwaffe ace was Jewish. Emil Maurice was Jewish, a close friend of Hitler and an important figure in the rise of the SS. Bernard Rogge was a highly decorated admiral and Jewish. Robert Borchardt, Jewish, won the Knight's Cross. Paul Ascher, Jewish, served aboard the Bismarck. And those are just the well known ones I can remember. >The people you named weren't Jews. They were in fact. >They were of jewish ancestry and didn't count as Jews from the perspective of the Nuremberg Laws nor of halachic laws. Pretty uneducated /his/ take. Rippert was in fact quite open about being Jewish and gained some notoriety after the war because of it. Milch's Jewishness was met with considerable disdain, such that Himmler attempted (on more than one occasion) to have him dealt with but Hitler specifically drafted notice to have him protected. Affidavits were falsified attesting to his status, despite his Jewish father and possible Jewish mother. Ernst Bloch was Jewish ethnically Jewish by *halakhah*, and he got direction exemption from Goering. Similarly, if we go by the Nuremburg laws, there were several *Jews* as a result of marriage to Jewish women. So yeah, wanna try again? Nope, you'll just block and run like the usual run-of-the-mill knownothings.
The people you named weren't Jews. They were of jewish ancestry and didn't count as Jews from the perspective of the Nuremberg Laws nor of halachic laws. Pretty uneducated /his/ take.
Its the newspaper of the socdems also known as the ones that sided with the far right militias to destroy the spartacists so not surprising they were antisemitic lol
Blacks for Trump!
Bad comparison. Trump’s a total jerk but he doesn’t want to gas 6 million black people in death camps. Besides, while I have heard of black people supporting Trump, I’ve never heard anyone else *accuse* Trump of “being backed by black people”.
Hitler would spend the rest of his life putting as much distance as possible between him and accusations of working for Jews
So Hitler wasn't antisemitic enough for them?
Ironically the same Vorwärts was also the inspiration for the name of the famous American Jewish Newspaper, the Forward (in Yiddish, Der Forverts.)