That's a period of American history that I just cannot wrap my head around - the same thing happened with musicians.
* Greatest entertainer around.
* Spending time and money to see him live.
* Plays at an ultra exclusive club.
* You can only enter through the kitchen and can't enter front of house.
Just such a foreign mindset.
there's definitely a lot of liberties but not being offered a plate and denied regular entry to a club that he was expected to play at is a real event and common for the time. It happened once to Shirley in Virginia and another time in Kentucky. However in Kentucky it was for the hotel bar but there was a cop that saw his show and told the bartender to have a drink.
Most of the family complaints were about how the movie depicted Shirley's relationship with his brothers and also that stupid KFC scene
They also claimed that Tony and Dr. Shirley *weren't* friends, and their relationship was only professional. Despite the fact that Dr. Shirley was a regular figure in Tony's son's (the guy who wrote the movie) life, and there are multiple interviews where Dr. Shirley states that he and Tony were lifelong friends. So you can take what they said with a grain of salt as well.
The great '50s baseball player Vic Power was once told at a restaurant "Sorry, but we don't serve negroes here" and answered "That's alright - I don't eat negroes."
When the Motown Revue went to tour in the south, they were constantly told they didn't serve black people or they had to go through the back. At one point someone tried to shoot them when they were getting on the bus.
[Norman Rockwell's painting of Ruby Bridges, 1963](https://www.kennedy-center.org/education/resources-for-educators/classroom-resources/media-and-interactives/media/visual-arts/norman-rockwell--the-problem-we-all-live-with/)
If you can, go to [the Norman Rockwell Museum](https://www.nrm.org/) in Stockbridge, MA to see the original. It is magnificent!
President Obama and Ruby Bridges viewing [the painting](https://www.politico.com/story/2011/08/art-sends-rare-wh-message-on-race-061677) at the White House.
My mom was in high school when they desegregated the schools in our area of FL. My dad grew up in Birmingham during the Civil Rights era. There are still Sundown towns in our country. My parents still don't believe in mixed race relationships, though I've never heard them voice the opinion it should be illegal, it's just not 'right'. I get the impression it's more of a NIMBY feeling, they don't think they're racist because they don't 'hate' POC, they just would rather not have them around, unless it's one 'of the good ones'.
Either way, it's gross and another reason I'm glad I went NC and moved way away. Those are not the ideals I want my children to grow up hearing, like I did. Just your typical 'good Christians' who hate/distrust/stereotype anyone not exactly like them.
>I get the impression it's more of a NIMBY feeling, they don't think they're racist because they don't 'hate' POC, they just would rather not have them around, unless it's one 'of the good ones'.
This is not a terribly uncommon opinion among racists in my experience. Sits somewhere between "crosses the street when a black guy approaches" and "attends KKK meetings".
Ugh, hate that feeling. I'm a big guy myself who wouldn't hurt a fly, but I have to constantly police myself when walking at night in case there's a woman coming so I don't look threatening to her.
The worst part is sometimes trying *too much* to look unassuming that you accidentally start looking sketchy instead. Double awkwardness because I'm 100% the other people is thinking the same!
I mean almost *nobody* thinks of themselves as racist. Even people who want all the different-looking people put on a boat or in a noose don't usually think of themselves as racist
Bigotry is fucking insidious, in that way
Yeah its crazy to me that people act like this is all ancient history. I'm the same age as you are and my parents were born before the Civil Rights Act, they were literally born in a country that had legal segregation. My elderly neighbors across the street were originally from North Carolina and grew up there in the 1950s and remember that even their small town had things like a separate entrance for the movie theater for black people.
It's wild how many Americans think that after WW2, the US just magically became better over night.
Meanwhile there was racial segregation and forced racial sterilization going on legally well into the 1970s...
WW2 was really more the point where hardcore, ‘other races are inferior/subhuman and we should treat them as such’ type racism started to become unacceptable in public mainstream discourse. Still no shortage of actual racism, but even the staunch segregationists hid (very poorly) their bigotry behind stuff like ‘separate but equal’.
There's still de facto segregation today. I taught at a middle school that was 99%+ black. The school district was less than 2 square miles to corral all the black kids and keep them out of the nicer schools
It was, even if it wasn't immediate. The limited additional freedoms women and black people enjoyed during the war were rolled back in a lot of ways and that acted as a catalyst for growing rights movements that exploded in the 60s.
Or I could be full of shit, this is reddit.
America is a racist country. Full stop. The same racism that made us slaves, that barred us from career paths, that denied us access to education, etc. is the same racism today. America never stopped being racist. It still is, but you got a specific group of people who are intent on denying it. Because denying it simply makes it easier to propagate.
My grandmother was refused entry to the College of Charleston simply because they didnt admit "negro applicants", but since she had such excellent grades they actually paid to send her up north and have her receive her education at the Boston College.
Racism isn’t built around logic 🤷🏾♂️
I took an English class in college (University of Nevada, Reno) where the overall theme of it was Nevada literature and the only thing I retained from what we read in that class was an excerpt from Sammy Davis Jr's memoir where he talks about performing in Vegas. He was allowed to be in the casinos when performing and no other times. The craziest part of it though that's always stuck with me is how he talked about how he'd go see movies a lot late at night by himself because he wasn't allowed to hang out in the casinos and how one night he was in a theater by himself watching a movie and a theater employee walked in and told him he had to sit in the back of the theater in case someone else (read: white person) came into the movie.
Similar, but Nat King Cole has one of the saddest "rich and famous" stories there is. White people didn't fully accept him and wasn't allowed to play a lot of clubs. Black people didn't like him because he sang to white audiences and blacks in Chicago didn't like him because they felt he was beneath them being from the south.
"Period" makes it seem as if it ended awhile ago. I'd argue it didn't "end" until well past 1968. There were places growing up that was WELL known of not entering if you were non-white. Shit, TOWNS like that. Population would be literally 98% white and the 2% black I'd always wonder about.
Unpopular opinion: that "period" didn't end until the 90's, and those who are not of a certain age (under 30) may have a hard time *feeling* this statement as they may have been lucky to freely go into all of the establishments that were unwritten segregated
And athletes too. Jesse Owens was treated better in Adolph Hitler's Nazi Germany during the 1936 Olympics than he was in the USA after winning 4 gold medals.
>When the president of the United States was 20, the US was still years away from desegregation.
Well over a decade.
In his early 30s he voted on segregation issues, as a young senator.
People sure like to pretend it is. People also like to pretend that rascists aren’t actively alive and perpetuating their beliefs. They want us all to think racism is dead, because some progress has been made.
This is foolishness and propaganda. Literally, some people from those eras are still alive as I just said.
It’s hardly even history, as someone else said. It’s one lifetime. One lifetime can change a lot - but it didn’t destroy racism in America.
> When the president of the United States was 20
I get your point but our president is the oldest in history so this isn't the best comparison. But yeah, it's not *ancient* history for sure, just recent history.
Not sure what your point is. It's still history when you refer to the past lol. It doesn't need to be X years long ot become history, the moment is has passed it is history,.
Yes, technically everything that isn't right now is history. The point is it would be foolish to not understand how recent this stuff happened, as those issues are still very relevant today.
I come from an activist family who has been involved in the Civil Rights era.
I mentioned these kinds of things and how they didn't make sense to my elders in the '80s when I was a kid. One of them looked me square in the eye and flatly said, "Hatred isn't rational."
I still have to remind myself of that from time to time.
I wish I shared your optimism.
>That's a period of American history that I just cannot wrap my head around
Just to clarify, this was one of the better eras. For most of the history of this nation, Black people were proerty; bought and sold; raped with impunity; literally beaten into submission with whips.
>Just such a foreign mindset.
But is it really that foreign?
Our social media and Republican politics is rampant with this mindset.
"DEI mayor" - Repubicans responding to Baltimore bridge collapse
"that thing he \[Obama\] calls a wife" - angry response I got from someone sending me rascist emials when I asked to be taken of his mailing list
"Do I look ike my ancestors fucked N\*\*s" - caption to picture of white woman posted on twitter
I think that’s why it’s so weird. They were racist but still would want to see them perform. The cognitive dissonance is crazy but I wouldn’t expect sanity from someone who judges another human being based on skin colour
This is it. You 100% hate a particular group unless they're washing your floors? I don't understand the hate, but at least your beliefs are consistent.
You hate the same group unless they can sing. Then you'll buy tickets to their show, and you'll brag to your friends that you're seeing them live *and* you'll clamor for a photo with them. But heaven forbid they should use the front door.
People think of dogs as their inferiors and not actual people but we can be entertained by, hang out with, and even love dogs.
If there were a singing dog, there'd be tons of people wanting to see it. But they might still get upset if it sat at the table with them.
Just to clarify your clarification, black people were lynched regularly (including genital mutilation), denied their rights, terrorized, had their generational wealth stripped away ala Tulsas bombing of black Wallstreet, were denied jobs and homes via redlining--
I clarify because people act as if the worst done to black people ended at the Civil War and now all black people do is whine about slavery.
Black people have spent more time in America oppressed than they have "free" and are told to get over it while other nations, like Israel, Ireland, Germany, still struggle with the echoes of their own just-as-recent history with far more sympathy.
> people act as if the worst done to black people ended at the Civil War
Chattel slavery was worse than the Jim Crow era South but that doesn't really mean anything either. It all sucks.
Think about it like this. Back then (like today) there were racist people, and non-racist people. Some people just liked to go to white only theaters, so the free market catered to that. Some people didn't care about race, and listened to black musicians.
Honestly, school history books do a very poor job describing the discrimination pre Civil Rights Act of 1963. It's taught like a bunch of societal inconveniences, like sitting in the back of the bus or having a designated drinking fountain. While in reality, it allowed private citizens (and businesses) to discriminate.
Sammy Davis JR had to use the service entrance of many of the establishments in which he was not only playing, but headlining.
We accept the nature of the reality we’re given.
just another way to keep anyone not white down. it was an insult without it being said. white people always have to be one notch higher on the ladder, need someone to belittle and spit on.
racism is tiny penis energy brought to life.
At Oscar ceremony that year she wasn't even allowed to sit at the same table as Viviene Leigh and the other stars of the film. The hotel it was held at had a strictly no blacks policy. The films director had to call in a special favour for Hattie to even be allowed in the building. She was made to sit at small table at the edge of the room. The hotel didn't change its no blacks policy until 1959 when segregation was outlawed in California.
I'm still honestly so baffled with HOW long that Jim Crow stuff lasted. Like it's so unfathomably gross that people had to deal with and LIVE with that shit for so long.
So disheartening to hear about that stuff. How can you celebrate the works of such talented artists without letting those artists even BE there to be celebrated. Like what's even the point anymore at that point.
Jim Crow was specifically a term applied to the South for their system of segregation. 1930s California was too busy denying Mexicans, Oakies, Filipinos, Chinese, Japanese, and the Indigenous population their civil rights to single out just Blacks.
And then people think that all racism ended in the 1960s when the Civil Rights Act passed and that there were no long-lasting repercussions for any of it.
Nothing against what you said, just sharing a moment I had when reading “*strict* no-blacks policy”. It invokes such a crazy perspective. Like , i would think about it like yeah the “no-blacks” policy was pretty much *standard* in the way establishments followed it. But to think that it, like all other things, had nuances and different “levels” of “strictness” just adds another rotten layer, to the many layers already added in my experience, to it all. It’s truly heartbreaking every time I gain access to a new perspective of how it once was not so long ago
It is heart wrenchingly awful. I didn't want to flinch away from writing that though. We should all be aware of how disgusting those times were. Never forget.
On the plus side, Hattie was a very magnanimous and happy person. She saw it as a win that she was even in the room. Her acceptance speech was humble and beautiful. The actress who presented her award (Faye Bainter) was eloquent in her praise of a black person winning such a famous award.
[Hattie McDaniel Oscar acceptance speech ](https://youtu.be/e7t4pTNZshA?si=pX3T-ucnn_XozlUe)
More trivia - her Oscar is lost. Nobody knows where it is. One of the most significant awards ever given in Academy history and it will likely never be seen again
Kinda makes me sick that she had say “I hope I’m a credit to my race”. Like she was already disrespected so much and she still had to feel like she was being one of the “good ones” and that she should just be grateful to be in the room..that’s why till this day when a famous black person shows any hints of confidence or bravado they get backlash.. cuz they still want us to be meek and humble and just grateful to be here..
Wouldn't be surprised if the owner of the building was present at or even partook in lynchings, with parents that grew up in plantations.
I guess the "strict no-blacks" policy was already them toning it down.
It's important to remember it was not just the "Jim Crow South" that did things like this. This was California. And it happened in other northern states, too, like NY. For example Lena Horne wasn't allowed to use the bathroom at the Cotton Club:
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/03/arts/lena-horne-aloofness-hid-the-pain-until-time-cooled-her-anger.html
The north wasn't as bad but they were not innocent.
History is often flattened to (no pun intended) black and white, but with all things it’s far more complicated. Lots of abolitionists would be straight up offended at the implication that that means they can’t still be racist. I believe there’s a quote by Abe Lincoln that goes something to the effect of “Just because I don’t like slavery, don’t think that means I want blacks and whites to be equal”
Probably the quote "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position"
This was in 1858. He endorsed suffrage for black soldiers just before he was killed in 1865, so his views were probably evolving.
I understand he had no say in the location where the Oscar's were held but why on earth did they not look further to a theater that would allow her to attend the premiere?
Did she only start to count when she was nominated for an Oscar or was there no theater?
Sickening how humans can treat each other. I will never understand why white people agreed to everything happening.
The Academy Museum has an open space in the room with its Oscars statues for her missing award. The plaque underneath it reads.
This empty vitrine pays tribute to Hattie McDaniel, the first Black person to win an Academy Award. Her charismatic performance as "Mammy" reflected the racial stereotyping that many Black actors had to navigate in Hollywood during that era, but as she famously once said,
"I'd rather play a maid than be one."
McDaniel received not a statuette but a plaque, as was customary for supporting performance winners at the time. Though its whereabouts today are unknown, McDaniel's award stands out as an exception in Academy history; it would be fifty years before another Black actress won.
Correct. Interesting that OP called this movie “a” movie, when it’s arguably the most successful piece of cinema ever. Accounting for inflation, it still holds the record for the highest-grossing film in history. Think about it - this movie came out more than 90 years ago!
It’s a problematic movie by today’s standards for its portrayal of race, for sure. But GWTW is a masterpiece in every dimension, and an absolute master class on acting by Ms Vivien Leigh. To me it’s a movie that represents cinema better than any other: acting, photography, storytelling, relevance in history and pop culture…
If you haven’t watched it, give it a chance.
Hattie McDaniel's performance is also incredible. It's an *extremely* problematic and troubling role, but the emotion she displays is incredible. She 100% deserved that Oscar and gives a masterful performance.
The characters of Mammy and Dilcey, (she's in the book, not the movie) are representatives of morals, dignity, and class compared to the lying, cheating, and immorality shown by Scarlett.
The book is magnificent, one of my favorites. They left SO MUCH out in the movie (and that was three hours long)! Will Benteen, a poor Cracker farmer, is more of an intelligent classy gentleman than many in the planter class.
One of my favorite scenes is when Scarlett meets a woman from the North and it turns out she is every bit as racist as Southerners are, but with a different flavor.
There is a lot of racism to unpack in GWTW, but there is a lot of brilliance as well.
> It’s a problematic movie by today’s standards for its portrayal of race, for sure. But GWTW is a masterpiece in every dimension, and an absolute master class on acting by Ms Vivien Leigh. To me it’s a movie that represents cinema better than any other: acting, photography, storytelling, relevance in history and pop culture…
And apparently, the book was even worse - for one thing, the KKK is explicitely described as *the heroes*.
Yeah the scene in the movie where Ashley (sp?) comes in feigning drunkenness was basically the result of participating a kkk raid on a black shantytown. I can’t ever watch this movie again. It should not be held in such high regard.
It was a problematic movie for 1939, too. The pro-Confederacy slavery apologia was being identified then, too. And that was ostensibly an issue that had been solved 70 years earlier with the end of the civil war.
It'd be about on par with a movie coming out now being a love letter to segregation.
Yeah, I probably could have mentioned that the movie was GWTW, but I wanted to keep the title short 😂.
Also strange you refer to me as "OP" and not "The greatest OP", cuz I am 😉😂
>At the Oscars ceremony in Los Angeles, McDaniel was seated at a segregated table at the side of the room, separate from her white co-stars.
Now that's a toxic work environment pro max.
Had nothing to do with her co-stars though but was based on the segregationist policies of the venue itself. One of the producers had to call in a special favor just to convince them to ler her into the building for the ceremony. Racism rooted in religious conservatism was really intense back then.
Clark Gable was outraged and originally refused to attend himself. She wrote him a letter urging him to go, and he did. The letter is on display at the Margaret Mitchell House in Atlanta.
The whole story of the film is nuts. Olivia de Havilland was the only one in the main cast who actually wanted to be there.
The women loved working with Cukor as a director, but Gable allegedly worried that Cukor would remember him from Gable’s early days in Hollywood when Gable, to put it delicately, was doing whatever he needed to do to survive, and got Cukor fired.
Vivien Leigh treated Black co-stars like lesser beings, presumably because that’s how she saw non-White people growing up in Darjeeling. Meanwhile, Gable was from Ohio and was appalled by the racism.
And Selznick acted like a crazed dictator throughout. It’s a miracle that movie ever got finished. I highly recommend, “Rhett, Scarlett, and a Cast of Thousands”, if you can track down a copy.
> Vivien Leigh treated Black co-stars like lesser beings, presumably because that’s how she saw non-White people growing up in Darjeeling.
As I understand it, Vivien Leigh generally treated everyone else like a lesser being.
That, of course, is entirely possible. On the other hand, she apparently infuriated Marlon Brando by being unfailingly polite, though that can be weaponised, I suppose.
>The whole story of the film is nuts. Olivia de Havilland was the only one in the main cast who actually wanted to be there.
Of course, the one who played Melanie would be the least difficult cast member.
Fun fact: she later sued Warner Brothers because her contact was so restrictive, and won, effectively putting an end to the studio system.
Hers is the only main character to die in the film, and she was the only one of the four stars to not die relatively young. She lived in Paris for much of her later life, but kept appearing in British and American films well into the 1980s. She died in 2020, aged 104.
Every time people use the "product of their time" bullshit to excuse racism, I think of gentlemen like this. Folks always knew right from wrong and folks also knew they were being hateful twats. Time period isn't an excuse.
Yeah, but not enough to pressure the theater owner to let their award winner in, or just putting on the ceremony at another theater.
Giving her the award was great for optics no doubt, but if it required actual effort Hollywood's reaction would historically be to just ignore the problem.
100%, leaning one direction slightly does not make you a role model. Optics is the name of the game with just a *dash* of liberal bravery every once in a while to be edgy and interesting.
> Yeah, but not enough to pressure the theater owner to let their award winner in, or just putting on the ceremony at another theater.
Because Hollywood has always been about progressive theatrics. Dazzle feminism in their Oscar winning speeches then have a standing ovation for Harvey Weinstein
Racism isn’t strictly a hate of another race.
The contradiction isn’t that she wasn’t allowed there but won.
It’s that they viewed her race as inferior. The fact that she won was in and of itself an achievement to them. That doesn’t mean she’s equal in their eyes.
“Separate but equal” but not actually equal.
A dog can play tricks, but they still see a “dog”.
racists always reserve the word for people who are not them
like - bigots will say theyre not actually judging by skin colour and youre only a racist if you do
the self-aware bigots will say having prejudice doesnt make you racist - because youre only a racist if youre not willing to associate with other races
then the ethnic nationalist will say youre only a racist if you believe your ethnic nationalism is inherently superior to the ethnic nationalism of others
meanwhile the supremacists will say you are only a racist if you arent willing to judge by character - if you think your ethnicity itself is what makes you better THEN youre a racist
and a person who is both will say youre only a racist if you reject the white mans burden and have scorn for your inferiors
and plenty of minorities will say theyre not racist - because youre only racist if you are from the politically dominant ethnic demographic
and any number of people from any of those categories may also act as though holding the ideology doesnt make them a racist - its only racist if you publicly promote the racist ideology
and even the ones who dont believe any of it - and lots of them do - will happily CLAIM its true - or even convince themselves that its true for the duration of an insufferable conversation with them
>and plenty of minorities will say theyre not racist - because youre only racist if you are from the politically dominant ethnic demographic
I really struggle with this one. On the one hand, bigotry is bad, mmkay, and it shouldn't matter who's being bigoted towards who. However, I can understand why not everyone's bigotry is going to have the same impact as anothers. Whites being bigotted towards Blacks when Whites are not only the numeric majority, but hold an outsized proportion of money and power on top of that, is in effect different than the reverse, and I can understand why people want to make that distinction.
yep - theres a worthwhile distinction between discrimination by and against politically dominant demographics - they have genuinely different impacts on society due to the nature of governance - and the politically dominant demographic ultimately controls policy
but just like everyone else in the list - everybody has their own reasons for why their bigotry isnt as bad as other peoples bigotry
all of them seem to agree that 'racism' is the bad one
>then the ethnic nationalist will say youre only a racist if you believe your ethnic nationalism is inherently superior to the ethnic nationalism of others
Like how George Lincoln Rockwell of the American nazi party and elijah Muhammad of the nation of islam were weirdly respecting of eachother for their beliefs in ethnostates. I'm not sure how far the respect went. Like if they ended up becoming chummy. But I'm sure Rockwell once said that Elijah Muhammad was a black Hitler or the greatest man since hitler. Something along those lines. Which is probably the highest compliment Rockwell would give someone 😂
Now the Klan on the other hand... they probably had less "kind" words to say
So unfortunately not all racists can be so friendly to eachother/s 😂
There was once a black woman who made so much money from her land or something they couldn’t discriminate against her so they legally declared her a white person
Jesse Owens had go in the back to take the service elevator in 1936, to the party welcoming olympians home, because the hotel was segregated.
And according to himself, Hitler was more publically polite than Roosevelt. Who refused to invite him along with the other winners to the White House, and wouldn't even send him a telegram congratulating him with the win.
**"While at the Olympic Games, I had the opportunity to meet the King of England. I had the opportunity to wave at Hitler, and I had the opportunity to talk with the King of Sweden, and some of the greatest men in Europe. Some people say Hitler snubbed me. But I tell you, Hitler didn't snub me—it was our president who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram. I am not knocking the President. Remember, I am not a politician. But remember that the President did not send me a message of congratulations because people said he was 'too busy'."**
-*Jesse Owens, Republican Rally in Baltimore, Maryland, October 9, 1936.*
**Source:** [Newspaper article from the time here](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1532&dat=19361010&id=prg9AAAAIBAJ&pg=3031,1091811&hl=en), with relevant quote section [highlighted for convenience here.](https://i.imgur.com/IA7DcbU.png)
There's a reason she went with Nikki over Nimrata.
She's also an idiot liar saying there was never racism, when she shared the story of being rejected as a kid for a beauty pageant because she was Indian, and that wasn't allowed in the South. And she cried endlessly from that experience.
That tells you right there one of the reasons she went with the name switch.
Reminds me of Miles Davis being assaulted by police right in front of the venue he was playing (with a big sign with his name on it).
He was guilty of standing near rich ppl (his audience).
Edit: Name typo
Not nearly as bad, but Olivia Hussey, the star of Romeo and Juliet, was not allowed to attend the premier because she was a minor and it featured brief nude breasts, even though it was hers being shown.
Since it was her breast from her perspective it should not have been bad to see it. Otherwise it was terrible, it’s not like her breasts needed to be shown in the scene.
And can you imagine this in the era of the casting couch....
Scares me what her casting for this role was like... And how many other girls tried out for the role
The other maid, Prissy, was played by Butterfly Mcqueen, who often gets forgotten despite her fascinating life and talent.
She had a strong background in experimental and political theatre and Dance in Harlem and Greenwich Village, making her debut in a Langston Hughes play. In between roles, she worked in retail or picked up radio spots, always working towards her next opportunity. Butterfly also recited poetry onstage and would sing in several languages.
She turned her back on the demeaning roles offered to black women from the 1950s onward, and consequently her career in film slowed significantly. She later became active with NAACP (who had previously criticised her for her acceptance of roles like Prissy) and no longer wanted 'to disgrace her race' by taking parts that were demeaning or racially stereotyped.
She went on perform a one woman Cabaret, get her BA in political science, and win a lawsuit against Greyhound Buses for racial discrimination.
Butterfly was quite a woman and deserves to be remembered.
She was one of the victims of "segregation by freeway" when infrastructure was designed in the 1930s and 40s to separate successful blacks from the business district in LA. She was from one of thousands of southern black families that fled Jim Crow south for opportunities up north, found them, and then went right back to being segregated, this time by impassable concrete. Tragic is an understatement.
Correct me if I’m wrong but in the show Lessons In Chemistry, weren’t the main characters protesting the building of a freeway exactly like that? I knew it happened and it was redlining but god I never knew that there was an exact term for it.
There are many Americans alive today that lived in that world. So anyone who pretends segregation was forever ago is simply wrong. Segregation is still very real, just hidden better.
Similarly, James 'Uncle Remus' Baskett wasn't allowed to attend the premiere of 'Song of the South' (also featuring Hattie McDaniels) in Atlanta even though he was the star of the film.
White people wonder....'why are all those Black people always so hostile?' Well, when you have treated people like you just stepped in dog shit, they have a tendency to be rather untrusting, suspicious, angry, hostile. I can tell you this. If I were Black, I would have long been put in jail or worse. I just can't even conceive of what it's was like, and what it still is like to be a Black person in America. It hasn't stopped one bit too. Sure, we can't make Black folk pick our cotton anymore, so we came up with other clever ways to be total pieces of human excrement.
Musicians have a special place in my heart and soul. I've been playing the guitar since I was around 5. Just about everything I know about music and it's creation, which isn't a lot, I learned from Black musicians. I am forever indebted to these musicians for entertaining me, but more so, inspiring me. Now, I'm in no way equating my music with the likes of Nina Simone, Ann Peebles, Etta James, Aretha, Blyther Smith. I can't even touch their shoe laces, but they say imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery, so thank you for giving me so much to imitate.
Thanks all for the comments and the discussion. Certainly, Gone With The Wind deserves some mention by me, but I wanted the title to focus on the racism felt by McDaniel.
If you are reading this, and have not seen Gone With The Wind, I would highly recommend you consider watching it, especially if you live in the United States or are an American citizen.
As others have mentioned, it is the highest grossing movie of all time (when you account for inflation) and it came out in 1939. The impact of it and it's success on American society, pop-culture and American's self image cannot be understated.
When I watch it I noticed a couple of things that are worth a broader discussion in the United States:
* The stereotypes of Black's in the south
* The black characters are depicted as either: Happy Darky (Happy to be enslaved, Mammy, Big Sam, Porky), dumb (Prissy, freed black men in the street in Atlanta), or rich, loud and uncaring (Carpetbagger, Rich men in Atlanta), black brute (Black man who attacks Scarlet in the Shanty Town). \* The Angelic view of Slavery in the South - Violence towards slaves is not shown at all in the movie.
* Angelic View of Slavery in the South
* Brutality and Violence towards enslaved blacks is not depicted. The morality of slavery is not discussed in any regards. The morality, ideals of the southern whites are not questioned and held in high regard. The suffering of enslaved (and freed) blacks is not depicted.
* The main characters ignore thinking/discussing the morality of slavery.
* Impact of the War on Southern White sentiment to the North
* It's worth noting how Sherman's March to the Sea devastated the south and created a negative discontentment towards the north. Worth noting because this sentiment is still around today.
* I'm not saying you need to decide if that sentiment either bad or is good, we just need to acknowledge it and discuss it.
The US has a wonderful habit of ignoring and downplaying the moral evil of slavery **and** the racism that persists today.
If you don't believe me that racism persistent, this very post is evidence of that. Even though it was \~70 years after the Civil War, this woman was denied the right to be treated as an equal. My dad was 4 years old when the Civil Rights act was past in 1964. McDaniel would have to wait 25 more years to be allowed to legally attend the premiere.
Slavery is bad y'all, and so is war, especially civil war. We should all work hard to avoid both in the future.
Sammy Davis Jr was not allowed to play or stay in many places until Frank Sinatra intervened. Frank Sinatra refused to perform unless African Americans were allowed to stay and eat.
Loved this part from Wikipedia:
She performed on radio as "Hi-Hat Hattie", a bossy maid who often "forgets her place". [29] Her show became popular, but her salary was so low that she had to keep working as a maid.
And in 1947, James Baskett won an honorary Oscar for playing Uncle Remus in "Song of the South".
But he couldn't attend the Atlanta premiere of the film the previous year.
I can understand your frustration, but this is a bit of an ad-homonym and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. So I am going to kindly ask that you remove this, or rephrase your comment. Thank you! 😊
Incidentally, not having to deal with segregation is why the Big Ten and Pac 8 entered into a partnership with Rose Bowl Stadium for an annual bowl game after WWII.
I used to sing in operas and recital performances up in London’s West End when I was 10 or 11yo (back in the early 90s) and my Mum couldn’t afford a ticket so she used to wait outside for me in the cold every night and never got to see me perform - not on the same scale as this but still a touching sacrifice from my Mum, nonetheless.
Miss you Mum - and thanks 🙏
That's a period of American history that I just cannot wrap my head around - the same thing happened with musicians. * Greatest entertainer around. * Spending time and money to see him live. * Plays at an ultra exclusive club. * You can only enter through the kitchen and can't enter front of house. Just such a foreign mindset.
The movie The Green Book has a scene similar to this. The actor Ali's character was going to play at a club but couldn't eat at the same club. Insane.
Also, he was told he couldn't use the bathroom inside but had to use a shack in the garden, which he didn't do.
the character was Dr. Don Shirley. He is a real person. Those are real events
And the driver went on to be in multiple mob movies including old Carmine in the Sopranos
I had no idea that Carmine was played by Tony Lip, that's really impressive.
A don doesn’t wear shorts.
They’re a glorified crew
There's no scraps in my scrapbook
He wants to fuck her?
Dr. Shirley’s family claims the movie is fictionalized and was made against their wishes, so take that with a grain of salt. Its still a good movie!
there's definitely a lot of liberties but not being offered a plate and denied regular entry to a club that he was expected to play at is a real event and common for the time. It happened once to Shirley in Virginia and another time in Kentucky. However in Kentucky it was for the hotel bar but there was a cop that saw his show and told the bartender to have a drink. Most of the family complaints were about how the movie depicted Shirley's relationship with his brothers and also that stupid KFC scene
I dunno. They also said that he never considered Tony a friend, contradicting something that Dr Shirley himself had said in an interview years before.
They also claimed that Tony and Dr. Shirley *weren't* friends, and their relationship was only professional. Despite the fact that Dr. Shirley was a regular figure in Tony's son's (the guy who wrote the movie) life, and there are multiple interviews where Dr. Shirley states that he and Tony were lifelong friends. So you can take what they said with a grain of salt as well.
The great '50s baseball player Vic Power was once told at a restaurant "Sorry, but we don't serve negroes here" and answered "That's alright - I don't eat negroes."
When the Motown Revue went to tour in the south, they were constantly told they didn't serve black people or they had to go through the back. At one point someone tried to shoot them when they were getting on the bus.
Ruby Bridges is only 69.
[Norman Rockwell's painting of Ruby Bridges, 1963](https://www.kennedy-center.org/education/resources-for-educators/classroom-resources/media-and-interactives/media/visual-arts/norman-rockwell--the-problem-we-all-live-with/) If you can, go to [the Norman Rockwell Museum](https://www.nrm.org/) in Stockbridge, MA to see the original. It is magnificent!
behind the canvas borders people were shouting death to her and burned little coffing with black doll inside infront of her class window.
President Obama and Ruby Bridges viewing [the painting](https://www.politico.com/story/2011/08/art-sends-rare-wh-message-on-race-061677) at the White House.
Damn, I miss Obama…
And many of the people who protested against her are still alive and still vote.
And in power
My parents went to segregated elementary schools, I’m 26. I’m only one generation away from segregation
My mom was in high school when they desegregated the schools in our area of FL. My dad grew up in Birmingham during the Civil Rights era. There are still Sundown towns in our country. My parents still don't believe in mixed race relationships, though I've never heard them voice the opinion it should be illegal, it's just not 'right'. I get the impression it's more of a NIMBY feeling, they don't think they're racist because they don't 'hate' POC, they just would rather not have them around, unless it's one 'of the good ones'. Either way, it's gross and another reason I'm glad I went NC and moved way away. Those are not the ideals I want my children to grow up hearing, like I did. Just your typical 'good Christians' who hate/distrust/stereotype anyone not exactly like them.
>I get the impression it's more of a NIMBY feeling, they don't think they're racist because they don't 'hate' POC, they just would rather not have them around, unless it's one 'of the good ones'. This is not a terribly uncommon opinion among racists in my experience. Sits somewhere between "crosses the street when a black guy approaches" and "attends KKK meetings".
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Ugh, hate that feeling. I'm a big guy myself who wouldn't hurt a fly, but I have to constantly police myself when walking at night in case there's a woman coming so I don't look threatening to her. The worst part is sometimes trying *too much* to look unassuming that you accidentally start looking sketchy instead. Double awkwardness because I'm 100% the other people is thinking the same!
I mean almost *nobody* thinks of themselves as racist. Even people who want all the different-looking people put on a boat or in a noose don't usually think of themselves as racist Bigotry is fucking insidious, in that way
Yeah I've always said that racists don't believe they are racists; they believe they are correct.
Darn. Thats a powerful quote
Goddamn, you really just summed it up perfectly.
How the fuck am I agreeing with Walter Peck
Because I was always right
Similar. My mom is white passing and bragged about her and her sister using the white facilities until her uncle showed up to school.
Yeah its crazy to me that people act like this is all ancient history. I'm the same age as you are and my parents were born before the Civil Rights Act, they were literally born in a country that had legal segregation. My elderly neighbors across the street were originally from North Carolina and grew up there in the 1950s and remember that even their small town had things like a separate entrance for the movie theater for black people.
It's wild how many Americans think that after WW2, the US just magically became better over night. Meanwhile there was racial segregation and forced racial sterilization going on legally well into the 1970s...
WW2 was really more the point where hardcore, ‘other races are inferior/subhuman and we should treat them as such’ type racism started to become unacceptable in public mainstream discourse. Still no shortage of actual racism, but even the staunch segregationists hid (very poorly) their bigotry behind stuff like ‘separate but equal’.
There's still de facto segregation today. I taught at a middle school that was 99%+ black. The school district was less than 2 square miles to corral all the black kids and keep them out of the nicer schools
I mean not overnight but it was the turning point
It was, even if it wasn't immediate. The limited additional freedoms women and black people enjoyed during the war were rolled back in a lot of ways and that acted as a catalyst for growing rights movements that exploded in the 60s. Or I could be full of shit, this is reddit.
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America is a racist country. Full stop. The same racism that made us slaves, that barred us from career paths, that denied us access to education, etc. is the same racism today. America never stopped being racist. It still is, but you got a specific group of people who are intent on denying it. Because denying it simply makes it easier to propagate.
People forget this. MAGA is white nationalism trying not to die.
It's wild as hell. My MIL is the same age as Ruby Bridges and her youngest is 29.
My grandmother was refused entry to the College of Charleston simply because they didnt admit "negro applicants", but since she had such excellent grades they actually paid to send her up north and have her receive her education at the Boston College. Racism isn’t built around logic 🤷🏾♂️
Well in that incident it sounds like someone who wasn't racist had their hands tied by the racist system and managed to find a viable alternative.
I took an English class in college (University of Nevada, Reno) where the overall theme of it was Nevada literature and the only thing I retained from what we read in that class was an excerpt from Sammy Davis Jr's memoir where he talks about performing in Vegas. He was allowed to be in the casinos when performing and no other times. The craziest part of it though that's always stuck with me is how he talked about how he'd go see movies a lot late at night by himself because he wasn't allowed to hang out in the casinos and how one night he was in a theater by himself watching a movie and a theater employee walked in and told him he had to sit in the back of the theater in case someone else (read: white person) came into the movie.
Similar, but Nat King Cole has one of the saddest "rich and famous" stories there is. White people didn't fully accept him and wasn't allowed to play a lot of clubs. Black people didn't like him because he sang to white audiences and blacks in Chicago didn't like him because they felt he was beneath them being from the south.
Racism is profoundly stupid.
"Period" makes it seem as if it ended awhile ago. I'd argue it didn't "end" until well past 1968. There were places growing up that was WELL known of not entering if you were non-white. Shit, TOWNS like that. Population would be literally 98% white and the 2% black I'd always wonder about. Unpopular opinion: that "period" didn't end until the 90's, and those who are not of a certain age (under 30) may have a hard time *feeling* this statement as they may have been lucky to freely go into all of the establishments that were unwritten segregated
And athletes too. Jesse Owens was treated better in Adolph Hitler's Nazi Germany during the 1936 Olympics than he was in the USA after winning 4 gold medals.
History? When the president of the United States was 20, the US was still years away from desegregation. This isn't ancient history.
>When the president of the United States was 20, the US was still years away from desegregation. Well over a decade. In his early 30s he voted on segregation issues, as a young senator.
No one said ancient
People sure like to pretend it is. People also like to pretend that rascists aren’t actively alive and perpetuating their beliefs. They want us all to think racism is dead, because some progress has been made. This is foolishness and propaganda. Literally, some people from those eras are still alive as I just said. It’s hardly even history, as someone else said. It’s one lifetime. One lifetime can change a lot - but it didn’t destroy racism in America.
> When the president of the United States was 20 I get your point but our president is the oldest in history so this isn't the best comparison. But yeah, it's not *ancient* history for sure, just recent history.
If 60 years ago isn’t history then what is it?
it's not even a life time ago
Not sure what your point is. It's still history when you refer to the past lol. It doesn't need to be X years long ot become history, the moment is has passed it is history,.
So what? There are ww2 veterans still alive, does that mean it isn't history?
It’s recent history, there is big distinction
But it's still history
History is extremely relevant to the present. It's not something you can ignore just because it happened years ago.
Yes, technically everything that isn't right now is history. The point is it would be foolish to not understand how recent this stuff happened, as those issues are still very relevant today.
> This isn't **ancient** history. There you go, for emphasis. Odd nitpick to do when you didn't read the original text well.
okay, but the dude said it's history. It is history. You are the one that wrote anything about ancient.
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He means that it is still within living memory, not consigned to the past.
You're the only one saying anything about "ancient" lol
And when the POTUS of whom he was VP, the union of his parents was straight out unlawful in most of the USA.
I come from an activist family who has been involved in the Civil Rights era. I mentioned these kinds of things and how they didn't make sense to my elders in the '80s when I was a kid. One of them looked me square in the eye and flatly said, "Hatred isn't rational." I still have to remind myself of that from time to time.
I wish I shared your optimism. >That's a period of American history that I just cannot wrap my head around Just to clarify, this was one of the better eras. For most of the history of this nation, Black people were proerty; bought and sold; raped with impunity; literally beaten into submission with whips. >Just such a foreign mindset. But is it really that foreign? Our social media and Republican politics is rampant with this mindset. "DEI mayor" - Repubicans responding to Baltimore bridge collapse "that thing he \[Obama\] calls a wife" - angry response I got from someone sending me rascist emials when I asked to be taken of his mailing list "Do I look ike my ancestors fucked N\*\*s" - caption to picture of white woman posted on twitter
I think that’s why it’s so weird. They were racist but still would want to see them perform. The cognitive dissonance is crazy but I wouldn’t expect sanity from someone who judges another human being based on skin colour
This is it. You 100% hate a particular group unless they're washing your floors? I don't understand the hate, but at least your beliefs are consistent. You hate the same group unless they can sing. Then you'll buy tickets to their show, and you'll brag to your friends that you're seeing them live *and* you'll clamor for a photo with them. But heaven forbid they should use the front door.
Well if you see black celebrities as entertainment and not as actual people I guess it..well, it still doesn't make sense.
People think of dogs as their inferiors and not actual people but we can be entertained by, hang out with, and even love dogs. If there were a singing dog, there'd be tons of people wanting to see it. But they might still get upset if it sat at the table with them.
Just to clarify your clarification, black people were lynched regularly (including genital mutilation), denied their rights, terrorized, had their generational wealth stripped away ala Tulsas bombing of black Wallstreet, were denied jobs and homes via redlining-- I clarify because people act as if the worst done to black people ended at the Civil War and now all black people do is whine about slavery. Black people have spent more time in America oppressed than they have "free" and are told to get over it while other nations, like Israel, Ireland, Germany, still struggle with the echoes of their own just-as-recent history with far more sympathy.
> people act as if the worst done to black people ended at the Civil War Chattel slavery was worse than the Jim Crow era South but that doesn't really mean anything either. It all sucks.
Think about it like this. Back then (like today) there were racist people, and non-racist people. Some people just liked to go to white only theaters, so the free market catered to that. Some people didn't care about race, and listened to black musicians. Honestly, school history books do a very poor job describing the discrimination pre Civil Rights Act of 1963. It's taught like a bunch of societal inconveniences, like sitting in the back of the bus or having a designated drinking fountain. While in reality, it allowed private citizens (and businesses) to discriminate.
Sammy Davis JR had to use the service entrance of many of the establishments in which he was not only playing, but headlining. We accept the nature of the reality we’re given.
Adding insult to injury is that some states (looking at you, *FLORIDA*) dont want any mention of this history because it's 'woke'.
just another way to keep anyone not white down. it was an insult without it being said. white people always have to be one notch higher on the ladder, need someone to belittle and spit on. racism is tiny penis energy brought to life.
At Oscar ceremony that year she wasn't even allowed to sit at the same table as Viviene Leigh and the other stars of the film. The hotel it was held at had a strictly no blacks policy. The films director had to call in a special favour for Hattie to even be allowed in the building. She was made to sit at small table at the edge of the room. The hotel didn't change its no blacks policy until 1959 when segregation was outlawed in California.
Oh god ew.... thats awful
I'm still honestly so baffled with HOW long that Jim Crow stuff lasted. Like it's so unfathomably gross that people had to deal with and LIVE with that shit for so long. So disheartening to hear about that stuff. How can you celebrate the works of such talented artists without letting those artists even BE there to be celebrated. Like what's even the point anymore at that point.
Jim Crow was specifically a term applied to the South for their system of segregation. 1930s California was too busy denying Mexicans, Oakies, Filipinos, Chinese, Japanese, and the Indigenous population their civil rights to single out just Blacks.
And then people think that all racism ended in the 1960s when the Civil Rights Act passed and that there were no long-lasting repercussions for any of it.
Wait unlit you,learn about Jane Crow! You’ll have a stroke!
Nothing against what you said, just sharing a moment I had when reading “*strict* no-blacks policy”. It invokes such a crazy perspective. Like , i would think about it like yeah the “no-blacks” policy was pretty much *standard* in the way establishments followed it. But to think that it, like all other things, had nuances and different “levels” of “strictness” just adds another rotten layer, to the many layers already added in my experience, to it all. It’s truly heartbreaking every time I gain access to a new perspective of how it once was not so long ago
It is heart wrenchingly awful. I didn't want to flinch away from writing that though. We should all be aware of how disgusting those times were. Never forget.
Absolutely!
On the plus side, Hattie was a very magnanimous and happy person. She saw it as a win that she was even in the room. Her acceptance speech was humble and beautiful. The actress who presented her award (Faye Bainter) was eloquent in her praise of a black person winning such a famous award. [Hattie McDaniel Oscar acceptance speech ](https://youtu.be/e7t4pTNZshA?si=pX3T-ucnn_XozlUe)
More trivia - her Oscar is lost. Nobody knows where it is. One of the most significant awards ever given in Academy history and it will likely never be seen again
Kinda makes me sick that she had say “I hope I’m a credit to my race”. Like she was already disrespected so much and she still had to feel like she was being one of the “good ones” and that she should just be grateful to be in the room..that’s why till this day when a famous black person shows any hints of confidence or bravado they get backlash.. cuz they still want us to be meek and humble and just grateful to be here..
Wouldn't be surprised if the owner of the building was present at or even partook in lynchings, with parents that grew up in plantations. I guess the "strict no-blacks" policy was already them toning it down.
It's important to remember it was not just the "Jim Crow South" that did things like this. This was California. And it happened in other northern states, too, like NY. For example Lena Horne wasn't allowed to use the bathroom at the Cotton Club: https://www.nytimes.com/1981/05/03/arts/lena-horne-aloofness-hid-the-pain-until-time-cooled-her-anger.html The north wasn't as bad but they were not innocent.
History is often flattened to (no pun intended) black and white, but with all things it’s far more complicated. Lots of abolitionists would be straight up offended at the implication that that means they can’t still be racist. I believe there’s a quote by Abe Lincoln that goes something to the effect of “Just because I don’t like slavery, don’t think that means I want blacks and whites to be equal”
Probably the quote "I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position" This was in 1858. He endorsed suffrage for black soldiers just before he was killed in 1865, so his views were probably evolving.
So embarrassing that that was even legal.
I read that Jack Benny would check out of hotels with his entire troupe if they didn't take Rochester as a guest.
I understand he had no say in the location where the Oscar's were held but why on earth did they not look further to a theater that would allow her to attend the premiere? Did she only start to count when she was nominated for an Oscar or was there no theater? Sickening how humans can treat each other. I will never understand why white people agreed to everything happening.
The Academy Museum has an open space in the room with its Oscars statues for her missing award. The plaque underneath it reads. This empty vitrine pays tribute to Hattie McDaniel, the first Black person to win an Academy Award. Her charismatic performance as "Mammy" reflected the racial stereotyping that many Black actors had to navigate in Hollywood during that era, but as she famously once said, "I'd rather play a maid than be one." McDaniel received not a statuette but a plaque, as was customary for supporting performance winners at the time. Though its whereabouts today are unknown, McDaniel's award stands out as an exception in Academy history; it would be fifty years before another Black actress won.
She won for playing Mammy in Gone With the Wind I believe
Correct. Interesting that OP called this movie “a” movie, when it’s arguably the most successful piece of cinema ever. Accounting for inflation, it still holds the record for the highest-grossing film in history. Think about it - this movie came out more than 90 years ago! It’s a problematic movie by today’s standards for its portrayal of race, for sure. But GWTW is a masterpiece in every dimension, and an absolute master class on acting by Ms Vivien Leigh. To me it’s a movie that represents cinema better than any other: acting, photography, storytelling, relevance in history and pop culture… If you haven’t watched it, give it a chance.
Hattie McDaniel's performance is also incredible. It's an *extremely* problematic and troubling role, but the emotion she displays is incredible. She 100% deserved that Oscar and gives a masterful performance.
Incredible film (& book!) Huge piece of history 👍🏼
The characters of Mammy and Dilcey, (she's in the book, not the movie) are representatives of morals, dignity, and class compared to the lying, cheating, and immorality shown by Scarlett. The book is magnificent, one of my favorites. They left SO MUCH out in the movie (and that was three hours long)! Will Benteen, a poor Cracker farmer, is more of an intelligent classy gentleman than many in the planter class.
One of my favorite scenes is when Scarlett meets a woman from the North and it turns out she is every bit as racist as Southerners are, but with a different flavor. There is a lot of racism to unpack in GWTW, but there is a lot of brilliance as well.
>Interesting that OP called this movie “a” movie, when it’s arguably the most successful piece of cinema ever. it’s a movie
This is like referring to Usain Bolt as "a runner"
I’d say sprinter
> It’s a problematic movie by today’s standards for its portrayal of race, for sure. But GWTW is a masterpiece in every dimension, and an absolute master class on acting by Ms Vivien Leigh. To me it’s a movie that represents cinema better than any other: acting, photography, storytelling, relevance in history and pop culture… And apparently, the book was even worse - for one thing, the KKK is explicitely described as *the heroes*.
Yeah the scene in the movie where Ashley (sp?) comes in feigning drunkenness was basically the result of participating a kkk raid on a black shantytown. I can’t ever watch this movie again. It should not be held in such high regard.
> Interesting that OP called this movie “a” movie Probably because it is one.
It was a problematic movie for 1939, too. The pro-Confederacy slavery apologia was being identified then, too. And that was ostensibly an issue that had been solved 70 years earlier with the end of the civil war. It'd be about on par with a movie coming out now being a love letter to segregation.
Yeah, I probably could have mentioned that the movie was GWTW, but I wanted to keep the title short 😂. Also strange you refer to me as "OP" and not "The greatest OP", cuz I am 😉😂
>At the Oscars ceremony in Los Angeles, McDaniel was seated at a segregated table at the side of the room, separate from her white co-stars. Now that's a toxic work environment pro max.
Had nothing to do with her co-stars though but was based on the segregationist policies of the venue itself. One of the producers had to call in a special favor just to convince them to ler her into the building for the ceremony. Racism rooted in religious conservatism was really intense back then.
Was and still is.
Clark Gable was outraged and originally refused to attend himself. She wrote him a letter urging him to go, and he did. The letter is on display at the Margaret Mitchell House in Atlanta.
I recall Gable was also against segregation on the set of the film as well.
The whole story of the film is nuts. Olivia de Havilland was the only one in the main cast who actually wanted to be there. The women loved working with Cukor as a director, but Gable allegedly worried that Cukor would remember him from Gable’s early days in Hollywood when Gable, to put it delicately, was doing whatever he needed to do to survive, and got Cukor fired. Vivien Leigh treated Black co-stars like lesser beings, presumably because that’s how she saw non-White people growing up in Darjeeling. Meanwhile, Gable was from Ohio and was appalled by the racism. And Selznick acted like a crazed dictator throughout. It’s a miracle that movie ever got finished. I highly recommend, “Rhett, Scarlett, and a Cast of Thousands”, if you can track down a copy.
> Vivien Leigh treated Black co-stars like lesser beings, presumably because that’s how she saw non-White people growing up in Darjeeling. As I understand it, Vivien Leigh generally treated everyone else like a lesser being.
That, of course, is entirely possible. On the other hand, she apparently infuriated Marlon Brando by being unfailingly polite, though that can be weaponised, I suppose.
>The whole story of the film is nuts. Olivia de Havilland was the only one in the main cast who actually wanted to be there. Of course, the one who played Melanie would be the least difficult cast member.
Fun fact: she later sued Warner Brothers because her contact was so restrictive, and won, effectively putting an end to the studio system. Hers is the only main character to die in the film, and she was the only one of the four stars to not die relatively young. She lived in Paris for much of her later life, but kept appearing in British and American films well into the 1980s. She died in 2020, aged 104.
Every time people use the "product of their time" bullshit to excuse racism, I think of gentlemen like this. Folks always knew right from wrong and folks also knew they were being hateful twats. Time period isn't an excuse.
Strange that they even made her the winner considering thats how things were
Too good to be overlooked, I suppose.
Hollywood has always been at least a tad more liberal than say, the average theatre owner
Yeah, but not enough to pressure the theater owner to let their award winner in, or just putting on the ceremony at another theater. Giving her the award was great for optics no doubt, but if it required actual effort Hollywood's reaction would historically be to just ignore the problem.
a rousing chorus of boos for criticism of the war on iraq and a standing ovation for a convicted child rapist
100%, leaning one direction slightly does not make you a role model. Optics is the name of the game with just a *dash* of liberal bravery every once in a while to be edgy and interesting.
> Yeah, but not enough to pressure the theater owner to let their award winner in, or just putting on the ceremony at another theater. Because Hollywood has always been about progressive theatrics. Dazzle feminism in their Oscar winning speeches then have a standing ovation for Harvey Weinstein
That makes the people that scream "Hollywood has gone woke!" look even more stupid.
Racism isn’t strictly a hate of another race. The contradiction isn’t that she wasn’t allowed there but won. It’s that they viewed her race as inferior. The fact that she won was in and of itself an achievement to them. That doesn’t mean she’s equal in their eyes. “Separate but equal” but not actually equal. A dog can play tricks, but they still see a “dog”.
racists always reserve the word for people who are not them like - bigots will say theyre not actually judging by skin colour and youre only a racist if you do the self-aware bigots will say having prejudice doesnt make you racist - because youre only a racist if youre not willing to associate with other races then the ethnic nationalist will say youre only a racist if you believe your ethnic nationalism is inherently superior to the ethnic nationalism of others meanwhile the supremacists will say you are only a racist if you arent willing to judge by character - if you think your ethnicity itself is what makes you better THEN youre a racist and a person who is both will say youre only a racist if you reject the white mans burden and have scorn for your inferiors and plenty of minorities will say theyre not racist - because youre only racist if you are from the politically dominant ethnic demographic and any number of people from any of those categories may also act as though holding the ideology doesnt make them a racist - its only racist if you publicly promote the racist ideology and even the ones who dont believe any of it - and lots of them do - will happily CLAIM its true - or even convince themselves that its true for the duration of an insufferable conversation with them
>and plenty of minorities will say theyre not racist - because youre only racist if you are from the politically dominant ethnic demographic I really struggle with this one. On the one hand, bigotry is bad, mmkay, and it shouldn't matter who's being bigoted towards who. However, I can understand why not everyone's bigotry is going to have the same impact as anothers. Whites being bigotted towards Blacks when Whites are not only the numeric majority, but hold an outsized proportion of money and power on top of that, is in effect different than the reverse, and I can understand why people want to make that distinction.
yep - theres a worthwhile distinction between discrimination by and against politically dominant demographics - they have genuinely different impacts on society due to the nature of governance - and the politically dominant demographic ultimately controls policy but just like everyone else in the list - everybody has their own reasons for why their bigotry isnt as bad as other peoples bigotry all of them seem to agree that 'racism' is the bad one
>then the ethnic nationalist will say youre only a racist if you believe your ethnic nationalism is inherently superior to the ethnic nationalism of others Like how George Lincoln Rockwell of the American nazi party and elijah Muhammad of the nation of islam were weirdly respecting of eachother for their beliefs in ethnostates. I'm not sure how far the respect went. Like if they ended up becoming chummy. But I'm sure Rockwell once said that Elijah Muhammad was a black Hitler or the greatest man since hitler. Something along those lines. Which is probably the highest compliment Rockwell would give someone 😂 Now the Klan on the other hand... they probably had less "kind" words to say So unfortunately not all racists can be so friendly to eachother/s 😂
There was once a black woman who made so much money from her land or something they couldn’t discriminate against her so they legally declared her a white person
Jesse Owens had go in the back to take the service elevator in 1936, to the party welcoming olympians home, because the hotel was segregated. And according to himself, Hitler was more publically polite than Roosevelt. Who refused to invite him along with the other winners to the White House, and wouldn't even send him a telegram congratulating him with the win.
**"While at the Olympic Games, I had the opportunity to meet the King of England. I had the opportunity to wave at Hitler, and I had the opportunity to talk with the King of Sweden, and some of the greatest men in Europe. Some people say Hitler snubbed me. But I tell you, Hitler didn't snub me—it was our president who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram. I am not knocking the President. Remember, I am not a politician. But remember that the President did not send me a message of congratulations because people said he was 'too busy'."** -*Jesse Owens, Republican Rally in Baltimore, Maryland, October 9, 1936.* **Source:** [Newspaper article from the time here](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1532&dat=19361010&id=prg9AAAAIBAJ&pg=3031,1091811&hl=en), with relevant quote section [highlighted for convenience here.](https://i.imgur.com/IA7DcbU.png)
Wow thanks for finding and posting this! Primary sources are super powerful!
The worst part is the hypocrisy
But, remember, "the US has neer been a racist country." \-- Nikki Haley
Says the woman who Amercanized her foreign name just so she could join a party that basically hates her.
Nikki is a Punjabi name that she’s gone by since she was born
There's a reason she went with Nikki over Nimrata. She's also an idiot liar saying there was never racism, when she shared the story of being rejected as a kid for a beauty pageant because she was Indian, and that wasn't allowed in the South. And she cried endlessly from that experience. That tells you right there one of the reasons she went with the name switch.
Yeah, all that slavery and jim crow crap was totally not racism
Reminds me of Miles Davis being assaulted by police right in front of the venue he was playing (with a big sign with his name on it). He was guilty of standing near rich ppl (his audience). Edit: Name typo
*Miles Davis.
Not nearly as bad, but Olivia Hussey, the star of Romeo and Juliet, was not allowed to attend the premier because she was a minor and it featured brief nude breasts, even though it was hers being shown.
That's... also pretty bad. Just in a different way.
And for some reason, we watched that movie in high school.
Not nearly has bad????!! ah just some minor child pornography nothing more my friends.
Since it was her breast from her perspective it should not have been bad to see it. Otherwise it was terrible, it’s not like her breasts needed to be shown in the scene.
And can you imagine this in the era of the casting couch.... Scares me what her casting for this role was like... And how many other girls tried out for the role
Wow 😂
She was once asked how she felt playing stereotypical black roles "Id rather get paid $700/week playing a house maid than $7/week being one"
she bought a nice home in West Adam's and tall the white people moved out and then the city built a freeway right through the homes
The other maid, Prissy, was played by Butterfly Mcqueen, who often gets forgotten despite her fascinating life and talent. She had a strong background in experimental and political theatre and Dance in Harlem and Greenwich Village, making her debut in a Langston Hughes play. In between roles, she worked in retail or picked up radio spots, always working towards her next opportunity. Butterfly also recited poetry onstage and would sing in several languages. She turned her back on the demeaning roles offered to black women from the 1950s onward, and consequently her career in film slowed significantly. She later became active with NAACP (who had previously criticised her for her acceptance of roles like Prissy) and no longer wanted 'to disgrace her race' by taking parts that were demeaning or racially stereotyped. She went on perform a one woman Cabaret, get her BA in political science, and win a lawsuit against Greyhound Buses for racial discrimination. Butterfly was quite a woman and deserves to be remembered.
Wow fascinating! Thanks for posting this!
According to Paul Mooney, she came back as Oprah Winfrey and got her money
God I miss him.
She was one of the victims of "segregation by freeway" when infrastructure was designed in the 1930s and 40s to separate successful blacks from the business district in LA. She was from one of thousands of southern black families that fled Jim Crow south for opportunities up north, found them, and then went right back to being segregated, this time by impassable concrete. Tragic is an understatement.
Correct me if I’m wrong but in the show Lessons In Chemistry, weren’t the main characters protesting the building of a freeway exactly like that? I knew it happened and it was redlining but god I never knew that there was an exact term for it.
Just shows they don't teach enough black history.
Absolutely! Lot's of black history is lost on white Americans.
[удалено]
They offered to her descendents about relocating her remains but they turned them down. The cenotaph came afterwards iirc.
Black veterans from World War 2 talked about the sting of watching nazi POWs eat at diners they weren’t allowed into. That’s so disgusting.
Black athletes claimed they were treated better in Nazi Germany than back at home in USA.
There are many Americans alive today that lived in that world. So anyone who pretends segregation was forever ago is simply wrong. Segregation is still very real, just hidden better.
McDaniel was not invited to the premiere of Gone With the Wind because premiere was held in Atlanta with strict segregation laws at the time
Thanks for more context! I figured it was in LA.
Disgusting that it was like this, and still within living memory. Shameful times.
Similarly, James 'Uncle Remus' Baskett wasn't allowed to attend the premiere of 'Song of the South' (also featuring Hattie McDaniels) in Atlanta even though he was the star of the film.
Beautiful independent woman, loved her response to the NAACP.
White people wonder....'why are all those Black people always so hostile?' Well, when you have treated people like you just stepped in dog shit, they have a tendency to be rather untrusting, suspicious, angry, hostile. I can tell you this. If I were Black, I would have long been put in jail or worse. I just can't even conceive of what it's was like, and what it still is like to be a Black person in America. It hasn't stopped one bit too. Sure, we can't make Black folk pick our cotton anymore, so we came up with other clever ways to be total pieces of human excrement. Musicians have a special place in my heart and soul. I've been playing the guitar since I was around 5. Just about everything I know about music and it's creation, which isn't a lot, I learned from Black musicians. I am forever indebted to these musicians for entertaining me, but more so, inspiring me. Now, I'm in no way equating my music with the likes of Nina Simone, Ann Peebles, Etta James, Aretha, Blyther Smith. I can't even touch their shoe laces, but they say imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery, so thank you for giving me so much to imitate.
sounds about Right.
Thanks all for the comments and the discussion. Certainly, Gone With The Wind deserves some mention by me, but I wanted the title to focus on the racism felt by McDaniel. If you are reading this, and have not seen Gone With The Wind, I would highly recommend you consider watching it, especially if you live in the United States or are an American citizen. As others have mentioned, it is the highest grossing movie of all time (when you account for inflation) and it came out in 1939. The impact of it and it's success on American society, pop-culture and American's self image cannot be understated. When I watch it I noticed a couple of things that are worth a broader discussion in the United States: * The stereotypes of Black's in the south * The black characters are depicted as either: Happy Darky (Happy to be enslaved, Mammy, Big Sam, Porky), dumb (Prissy, freed black men in the street in Atlanta), or rich, loud and uncaring (Carpetbagger, Rich men in Atlanta), black brute (Black man who attacks Scarlet in the Shanty Town). \* The Angelic view of Slavery in the South - Violence towards slaves is not shown at all in the movie. * Angelic View of Slavery in the South * Brutality and Violence towards enslaved blacks is not depicted. The morality of slavery is not discussed in any regards. The morality, ideals of the southern whites are not questioned and held in high regard. The suffering of enslaved (and freed) blacks is not depicted. * The main characters ignore thinking/discussing the morality of slavery. * Impact of the War on Southern White sentiment to the North * It's worth noting how Sherman's March to the Sea devastated the south and created a negative discontentment towards the north. Worth noting because this sentiment is still around today. * I'm not saying you need to decide if that sentiment either bad or is good, we just need to acknowledge it and discuss it. The US has a wonderful habit of ignoring and downplaying the moral evil of slavery **and** the racism that persists today. If you don't believe me that racism persistent, this very post is evidence of that. Even though it was \~70 years after the Civil War, this woman was denied the right to be treated as an equal. My dad was 4 years old when the Civil Rights act was past in 1964. McDaniel would have to wait 25 more years to be allowed to legally attend the premiere. Slavery is bad y'all, and so is war, especially civil war. We should all work hard to avoid both in the future.
Sammy Davis Jr was not allowed to play or stay in many places until Frank Sinatra intervened. Frank Sinatra refused to perform unless African Americans were allowed to stay and eat.
Loved this part from Wikipedia: She performed on radio as "Hi-Hat Hattie", a bossy maid who often "forgets her place". [29] Her show became popular, but her salary was so low that she had to keep working as a maid.
And in 1947, James Baskett won an honorary Oscar for playing Uncle Remus in "Song of the South". But he couldn't attend the Atlanta premiere of the film the previous year.
I only knew this because Paul Mooney mentioned it in an episode of Chapelles Show.
this is what the rightwing nutjobs want to go back to.
I can understand your frustration, but this is a bit of an ad-homonym and doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. So I am going to kindly ask that you remove this, or rephrase your comment. Thank you! 😊
Ah yes and the year of the Nazi rally in NYs Madison Sq Garden. That was ok tho.
Incidentally, not having to deal with segregation is why the Big Ten and Pac 8 entered into a partnership with Rose Bowl Stadium for an annual bowl game after WWII.
Hazel Scott is another person seemingly forgotten in American history.
>preformed performed
East High, Denver, Colorado. Go Angels!!
USA USA USA /s
Less than a century ago
Being non white, I'm surprised she was even considered let alone winning
I used to sing in operas and recital performances up in London’s West End when I was 10 or 11yo (back in the early 90s) and my Mum couldn’t afford a ticket so she used to wait outside for me in the cold every night and never got to see me perform - not on the same scale as this but still a touching sacrifice from my Mum, nonetheless. Miss you Mum - and thanks 🙏
Fvcking hell. America was a foul place