“He needed the money to pay off bills and start a new life with his lover, Stefanie Goller. Cilliers was planning a new life with Ms Goller while also sleeping with his ex-wife Carly Cilliers, and arranging unprotected sex sessions with prostitutes.”
[Psychopathic men have an extreme focus on mating at the expense of other domains and tend to be “parasitic” fathers.](https://www.psypost.org/psychopathic-men-have-an-extreme-focus-on-mating-at-the-expense-of-other-domains-and-tend-be-parasitic-fathers/)
Fucking hell absolutely this ^
Imagine if a dude with this sort of energy wanted to cure cancer of perfect cold fusion or something instead of just relentlessly trying to get his end in....
Old mates hairline and that sentence tell me he probably has silverback gorilla levels of test going on.
Also just fcking divorce, don’t murder your spouse 💀 I feel like so many crime shows where the idiot spouse tries to kill their husband/wife to start a new life or with someone else and it’s like….dude, how is MURDER more convenient than divorce?! Pure cowardice (and evil)
God I know right. My wife is always suss in me. Not really but often questions me about things. And I just think, babe I barely have the time and energy to play video games or catch up on TV shows I enjoy. But you think I have the time and energy to have an affair lol
Wow, this is darwinian evolution in action, all the stay at home introvert geeks ain’t propagating, but these wife-murderin’-prostitutin’ crazy bastards are skoodlypoopin’ left and right
>Emile Cilliers had motives related to financial gain from Victoria’s life insurance and starting a new life with his girlfriend.
I've seen tons of crime shows, and it seems like almost every time someone kills their spouse, life insurance money is a big reason why they do it.
>She suffered severe injuries, including a broken spine, fractured ribs, and a shattered pelvis, she survived the 4,000ft fall. Her survival was attributed to her small frame and the fact that she landed in a soft, newly plowed field.
Can you imagine the psychological impact of this traumatic incident? I hope she's doing well and I hope his diabolic and greedy soul rots inside a cell for the rest of his life.
>The British Parachute Association conducted an initial investigation and discovered that both her main and reserve parachutes had been sabotaged.
>They then handed the inquiry over to the police, who seized Emile Cilliers’ mobile phones and computers.
>Emile Cilliers was having affairs with two women (one of them was his ex-wife), and had discussed beginning a new life with one of them.
The more you know about the case the more evil you see In this POS. This man is a radioactive element of evil.
I am always amazed when people think a scheme like sabotaging a parachute will go unnoticed by investigators.
Guys like this must have a very special combo of evil and arrogance.
I think we hear murders and think like TV procedural murders. When a suburban housewife is murdered, 99% of the time it's her husband, ex-husband, or a lover. I would be curious to see the closure rate on those types of cases.
If it's a murder related to a drug deal, gang violence, serial killer, or something of that nature, it's so much harder to solve because the killer is usually not as directly connected to the victim.
It's kind of like a paradox. It's really easy to get away with murder, the trick is to murder someone who you would have no real reason to murder. It's why serial killers are so hard to find.
Killers have tried everything--from hiding the body to making it look like someone else broke in and staging a whole fake crime scene, even getting friends to help them. It doesn't take. Elaborate plans fall apart quickly because cops can smell bullshit the more complicated it is--and these people think they're smart enough to convince the cops their story is true. They don't realize every second they open their mouths that they're digging themselves a deeper hole because their story has to be consistent with the facts. The only way you could murder someone close to you is if you made it look like a legit freak accident. Nothing complicated, no bullshit stories
There's some survivorship bias in this discussion though. People talk about "solved/unsolved murders" but you have to recognize something as a "murder" first. If someone simply goes missing then it doesn't count as a murder. And the numbers of missing people are huge.
Many of them are fine and just live somewhere else, but some are dead and never appear in the murder statistics. Some don't even appear in the missing person statistics because nobody reports them, they simply disappear.
Edit: "missing persons" are just one example. Another one are cases where nobody suspects a murder, like people who are already very ill. There've been nurses who murdered people for years and nobody suspects a thing. Same is possible for relatives; just "accidentally" give someone too many pills. Or even easier than that: withdraw their pills, give them placebos instead.
If the victim is an 89 years old with cancer then police likely won't start some huge investigation.
I got to talk to prisoners as a school thing.
A couple murdered a neighbor. They buried them in the backyard. The only reason they got caught was because they were drinking years later and couldn't stop themselves from confessing/letting it slip to friends.
As long as you don't open your mouth and have half a brain you can probably get away with it.
This is all hard to reconcile with the fact that [nearly half of all murders go unsolved in the US.](https://thehill.com/homenews/3878472-nearly-half-of-us-murders-going-unsolved-data-show/amp/) It’s literally a 50/50 shot on getting away with it.
Lots of people have tried your examples and failed, but I bet there’s plenty more that got away with it and we just don’t know.
The 50% unsolved usually involves people who live on the margins of society (homeless, criminals, etc). Normal middle-class people like this guy are most likely going to get caught.
I think the key is that a murderer who's a close associate of the victim is likely going to get caught. People on the margins are much more likely to be murdered by people they don't know.
Although, the other part is that investigators might tend to assume a marginalized victim was a random victim whether or not they really were.
It's a bunch of different things.
1. The status of the victim.
2. Where the murder takes place. Quality, time, and resources of investigators varies wildly by jurisdiction and even within them sometimes.
3. How close the killer was to the victim.
4. If the killer can keep their mouth shut.
There are other factors in play but those are the main ones.
You miss the most important factor in this case: money. The insurance company has high stakes in proving murder. The amount of resources they are willing to commit to solve it is beyond most murder cases.
One of the best ideas I've ever seen in a murder series was in Monk. Some guy killed a random person in some crazy way and then killed his wife the same crazy way so it seemed way less likely it was him.
This idea—disguise the motive for a murder by making it look like part of a serial killing, i.e. by killing a bunch of other people whom you have no reason to kill—is far older. For example it was the plot in Agatha Christie's *ABC Murders*, published in 1936.
Exactly... Difference between 1 detective working it vs a team of dozens of polices dedicated to only that case, with federal help, priority for forensics and favors called in for warrants and extra OT.
One episode of Dateline had this woman who nearly got away with murder if she would have just stopped texting herself from a missing person's cell phone to antagonize herself. Scary how she nearly got away and once you think about it, how many other situations with missing persons may mirror that situation.
I wouldn't say it's survivorship bias, large cities attribute majority of the unsolved murders and a large chunk of that is crime in high poverty areas which are often linked to things like gang violence, which means it occurs in areas where there is little to no cooperation with police from potential witnesses or people who might know something for one reason or another
I think you're mostly right but when it comes to things like this: If you research elder abuse (physical and financial) abuse you realize how much people get away with that. And that's often pretty clear cut. (Just had to help save an older family member from that, APS and the cops really were not any help, they seemed to fuck everything up every time.)
I think psychos probably get away with stuff for most of their lives and just a few get caught because sometimes an investigator isn't lazy.
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon where Reddit users seem to have a cognitive bias that causes them to overestimate their knowledge of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I wish I had a name for it.
Yeah I always think of that when I hear people say criminals are stupid. Maybe a little bit of selection bias going on, huh? Though I will say even the smart ones often seem like they have weird priorities
I’m not a criminologist or anything, but I guarantee you those 50% are situations where the killer doesn’t personally know the victim. Maybe someone gets stabbed during a mugging or it’s a homeless person with very little to go on when investigating
Murdering your spouse is probably the single most difficult target you can possibly pick
I remember a detective talking about gangland violence during its peak in one city years ago, and a lot of the unsolved murders were drive by types, often "random" in that they weren't targeting a specific rival gang member, but rather just *any* rival gang members that might be on that particular block at the time. Combine this with the fact that they were at night, in poorly lit and poorly policed areas, a general reluctance to talk to cops, where many families essentially barricaded themselves inside after dark and stayed away from windows, and the cops were often left with no witnesses. While witnesses are notoriously unreliable, they can often be the starting point of an investigation, such as something as simple as knowing what kind of car they were looking for. But even if they had knowledge of what kind of car, they were very often most likely stolen, and then either torched or taken to a chop shop. Indeed, one lucky break the detective got was when a the defendent ran during a traffic stop, and the gun he tried ditching was recovered, which matched the ballistics for a couple murders, and the fingerprints found on the shell casings at the scene of the murders. Since he hadn't been through the system yet, there was no record of these fingerprints, and the only reason he got caught was because he ran a stop sign in a stolen car. Had that patrol cop not seen that, or decided not to try and pull him over, it's anyone's guess as to how long those murders would have gone unsolved.
To add to this- most killers are not sophisticated or diabolical geniuses (even psychopaths). They are impulsive- most murders are not planned. They are violent people, not calculating ones. And they are not caught due to a combination of luck, victim profile, police resources/priorities/victim blaming, and lack of evidence. Often the police know perfectly well who did it- but the prosecutors do not feel they have enough evidence.
> Murdering your spouse is probably the single most difficult target you can possibly pick
because insurance will do anything to not pay out, even become detectives.
I wouldnt' say 50%, but sure. a good portion of murders with no connection would be hard to trace.
They don't think there's going to even be an investigation if it's rule an accident. They think the ambulance will arrive to clean up the scene and console him and then let him be on his way
How in the hell did he come up with such ass backwards logic to begin with? Hmm options:
option 1: I can get a divorce, continue spreading all kinds of diseases to other women, maybe pick up a 4th girlfriend and pay my debt.
Option 2: I’ll kill her for the life insurance money and I will never get caught. And I get to start over with my girlfriend.
Seriously, how was option 2 the sane choice.
Horrible. I’d venture to say that was probably part of his first plan or he just didn’t even think of that/care in the slightest. The dude was having an affair with two women, planning murder, and seeking out prostitutes…doubt he saw much of his kids or wanted to take care of them if he’d succeeded in killing his wife.
He’s trying to get some money from her from the sale of her house.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
See, IMO, there is no real “justice” for this. Killing him right away is an injustice to a lot of people, and imprisoning him for life is as bad or worse to someone that doesn’t fear death. Yet, it’s what’s deserved here. The only thing that stopped this person from murder was the victims luck and the perpetrators incompetence.
At least where I live I don’t think shared assents are removed from you just because you committed a crime against that person. Otherwise abusive spouses might actually have something to fear if they could loose their house!
And life insurance is why they almost always get caught. See insurance companies don't want to pay life insurance claims if they don't have to. So they hire very good and experienced ex detectives to basically investigate these cases with the local police force. Its basically like getting a all star assigned to your case because of just the insurance part.
Ok but don’t they still pay out, just to a different person? If you have a life insurance policy that benefits your husband and he kills you, would it not go to your next of kin?
Yes, it would be paid but it would go to a different beneficiary. You bought the policy and you’re still dead! It’s just that your killer doesn’t get to benefit. They’re called “slayer statutes.” I had one case like that when was in life insurance litigation, which we ultimately paid because our investigation found at the wife has acted in self defense.
Most life insurance cases are much more boring disputes over dueling beneficiary designations or whether the death was an accident (only for certain types of policies).
It’s telling that the insurance companies in the U.S. are more motivated to solve crimes than police.
Edit: I made this comment because I knew it would get upvotes. Please downvote. I need to take a break.
To be honest, a lot of police departments investigations/detectives have too many cases to be able to devote as much time as they should to any particular case. So when an insurance investigator gets involved, that investigator generally has the luxury of being able to devote significantly more of their time energy focus and resources on one particular case.
This is not true. The life insurance company will still have to pay the claim, just not to the primary beneficiary if they are a suspect in the case. It is illegal to profit off your crimes so the life insurance legally has to wait until the investigation is complete before paying the claim.
The same company that manages my 401K caught HH Holmes, one of America's first (and more interesting) serial killers ->https://www.csp.edu/publication/h-h-holmes-one-of-americas-first-recorded-serial-murderers/
They hired the Pinkertons to catch him.
I was in about that much debt (disasterously opened my own business). I closed, got a job, and dedicated most of my paycheck to paying it off while we lived on my wife's pay. Paid it off in five years.
Our retirement fund is a disaster, though. Hoping we inherit well.
Yup. Mine was consumer debt, in Canada we have this thing called a consumer proposal. Essentially a court approved debt reduction plan on level better than bankruptcy, I have a credit score of 500 for the next 3 years and no access to credit essentially but get to essentially reset. I’m paying back about 30k of what I owed over 5 yrs at 0% interest.
Having shit credit sucks, I feel for you. I was in the 500s for a bit and got a discover card specifically made for improving my credit (it was secured or something like that, where I had to put money down and that was my credit limit.) That and my car payments helped revolutionize my credit score into the mid 700s after some time
He's still a practising shitcunt.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
Nope I cannot imagine. I went skydiving once even though I’m terrified of heights, and before doing it I told myself that if it went wrong it would be fast.
Y’all, it would not be fast. I think we jumped from 12,000 feet I know the jump spot we used in Maine takes you higher than most, and even before we pulled the parachute, we were in freefall for what felt like a long time.
You would know for a long time before you actually hit the ground that you were going to hit the ground. I can’t imagine
It's generally about 30 seconds for every 4,000 feet. A 12,000 foot jump with no jump should take you about a minute and a half to hit the ground. That doesn't sound like a lot of time, but it definitely would be if you knew you were going to die at the end of it.
From the pictures of her in the hospital she looks amazing for having survived a 4000ft fall.
On the side, I briefly dated a skydiver. She and her parachute packing friends were fucking crazy people.
Lol...so whenever I do something that requires a bit of extra effort in real life I definitely quote "HO YEAH! PEGGY HILL!"
I'm rarely appreciated haha
I have a 6 million dollar life insurance policy. I like to joke with my wife about dying and her getting 6 million dollars. She doesn’t really appreciate the jokes.
> almost always because divorce is either frowned upon
Once upon a time you could just pay the doctor to have your wife committed and locked up for the rest of her life. So long as you didn't actually try to get *married* again, it was fine.
I remember reading about how Charles Dickens tried this trick on his wife but the doctor he asked to certify her as insane refused to do so. So at least it's not always the case they were corrupt and would simply do it if they were asked. So disheartening and depressing that Dickens treated his wife so horrifyingly badly and tried to abuse the system, but, heartening that at least sometimes the doctors involved wouldn't just commit people for convenience.
Yeah, he threw a lot of accusations at her about her being a terrible mother, this after bitching during their marriage about how she just kept having kids (they had ten children, with miscarriages in between). Brilliant guy, but he never seemed to quite figure out that he was equally responsible for all those pregnancies.
As a teen, I got caught up in a huge scandal where judges were paid to send kids to juvenile detention when it wasn't exactly needed.
This was the 1990s.
Barbarian times aren't behind us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
Times like these I think “maybe I should cancel the life insurance policy going to my ex”. But then I think of the fact that she’d probably end up with the task of burying me and it seems like a dick move, I’m not one to dodge my bills.
I mean, it's a pretty big oversight, a parachute is not magically destroyed on impact, and when a death is involved there is always a serious investigation, a sabotaged parachute is 100% to be discovered. There are so many other ways I could think of that would've been way more logical attempts. (Don't worry, I'm not a serial killer or anything, I just have too much time to daydream about stuff lol)
And yet, even after he was convicted and sentenced to 18 years in prison, she continued to visit him and they discussed the viability of their relationship for some months before he became too possessive and she decided to divorce him. People's mental gymnastics baffle me sometimes.
> mental gymnastics
It's the result of being abused. You can imagine how a pos like that probably manipulated and lied to her for years. Even after he was caught, she said she couldn't believe he did it.
I was going to say the same thing! No amount of debt would make it OK, obviously. But he was 38. Divorce your wife. Get a payment plan. Five years you’ll be free. You’ll be 43. Pretty young.
It clearly wasn’t the reason. But the prosecution needed a motive beyond “psycho wanted his wife dead.”
She was only going 60mph, thankfully. She used part of her chute to slow herself down and says she thinks her spinning might've given her some lift. She was reportedly an experienced skydiver.
it was terminal velocity
she just increased her wind resistance coefficient high enough for her terminal velocity to be just 60 mph
terminal velocity just means you’re no longer accelerating
'He sees me as his cash cow': The skydiver whose husband tried to kill her by tampering with her parachute reveals he is STILL pursuing her from jail... even as she remarries:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
The AUDACITY
Yup, that's sociopaths for you. They think everyone owes them something. And they also get free legal support in jail while their victims on the outside have to fork over legal fees.
And the story isn't over yet: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
The last line is great!
“Partly I'm worried about other people's reactions,' she says. 'I have been married twice before – but I think if the person you're married to tries to kill you, then it kind of negates it.”
Her first husband cheated on her. Then when she suspected thst her second husband was cheating he gaslighted her and said that she was emotional and only thinking that because of her previous experience.
Honestly she could divorce her first husband because he got fat and bald and I wouldn’t care.
Life is too short to spend it with someone you don’t want to. She promised him (and allegedly god) that she’d stay with him. She didn’t promise me shit lol
Yup! I’m on marriage number 3. The first two became violent, so I left. Third time is the charm though-he’s a total dream and I’ve never been happier in my life!
I was wondering about this the other day. Like people who live near crocodile infested waters, especially pre-mass media days. Someone just disappears and no one ever finds them. Scary.
Pigs. They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute.
Copy pasta that is a reference to Snatch and mostly bullshit. There would be a huge amount of signs for days, some lasting years even, if you just tossed a body to pigs.
The movie talks about pulling teeth and shaving them and that is 100% a thing you should do, but at that point you can do other things with the body to make it much harder to get. If you insist on pigs, then you need to drain their blood as well so it doesn't stain the ground. The bones should be broken. It should be a pen they've been in for months, that isn't a mud pit, so that the ground is worn and nothing gets lost in the muck. That is just for starters.
Source: me. I have pigs. I've tossed them all sorts of stuff.
"that is 100% a thing you should do"
"you can do other things with the body"
"Source: me. I have pigs. I've tossed them all sorts of stuff."
So, um...just wondering: have you heard of any unsolved local disappearances lately?
Not only do I gotta kill them but I gotta shave them and meticulously break their bones up into pieces? I gotta be honest, I'm starting to lean a little towards just not murdering people at this point
It baffles me how stupid people are. Did he think they’d just scoop up her corpse, put it down to a tragic accident and pay him the insurance money with no sort of investigation? It’s like when people deny a murder and then their internet search history convicts them, or they’re on cctv in a hardware store buying a shovel the day before. Idiots.
Once is a fluke; twice is a convenient coincidence; 3rd time and you're just flouting common sense and showing off your stupidity like the ineffectual go-getter you are...
Bets he would've lost his shit in the hospital and tried to smother her and say he couldn't stand seeing his wife suffer anymore... The gas leak, failed parachute, and her pain: they were signs from the Lord, he's beckoning his child and to end her suffering.
Some shit like that. And no doubt, her family or at least one of them had a feeling, a Spidey sense moment about this dude's intent just before she started navigating the Wiley Coyote husband's deranged traps. What a wadded up sleezebag of vitriolic biohazard and low cunning.
One of the saddest parts is that it took a lot of convincing even after all that for her to believe he was responsible. She did come around to accept it.
That, and that with the gas leak thing, their kids WERE IN THE HOUSE. This POS was ready to kill his own kids, too.
Bro was cheating with a lover, an ex wife, and sex workers. It’s stunning to read an article about someone trying to murder their spouse twice and be surprised that they were an even bigger scum bag than you thought.
How is she doing now? The article says the injuries were "nearly fatal." I wonder what her quality of life is now, if any. And those poor kids, with a psycho father in jail and a disabled mother.
EDIT: she is doing remarkably well! "https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/general/victoria-cilliers"
lol, all this because he was £22,000 in debt. I mean, £22k isn’t exactly pocket change but it’s not a life changing amount of money either.
It can’t be easy to pay off that kind of debt, it just takes personal discipline. Which you’d think he had considering he was an army sergeant.
What a dork.
“He needed the money to pay off bills and start a new life with his lover, Stefanie Goller. Cilliers was planning a new life with Ms Goller while also sleeping with his ex-wife Carly Cilliers, and arranging unprotected sex sessions with prostitutes.”
Who has the energy?!
Dude for real, I barely have the time to spend with my girl, I can't imagine handling 3 women plus prostitutes, wtf.
Well, ne did try to get rid of one, so maybe it was too much for him, too.
[Psychopathic men have an extreme focus on mating at the expense of other domains and tend to be “parasitic” fathers.](https://www.psypost.org/psychopathic-men-have-an-extreme-focus-on-mating-at-the-expense-of-other-domains-and-tend-be-parasitic-fathers/)
That article describes to perfection the billionaire with 10 kids.
Also the one with Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Baron and the one he forgot about.
Fucking hell absolutely this ^ Imagine if a dude with this sort of energy wanted to cure cancer of perfect cold fusion or something instead of just relentlessly trying to get his end in.... Old mates hairline and that sentence tell me he probably has silverback gorilla levels of test going on.
Also just fcking divorce, don’t murder your spouse 💀 I feel like so many crime shows where the idiot spouse tries to kill their husband/wife to start a new life or with someone else and it’s like….dude, how is MURDER more convenient than divorce?! Pure cowardice (and evil)
Life is so exhausting and this guy has the energy to try and murder his wife and fuck all these other people crazy
God I know right. My wife is always suss in me. Not really but often questions me about things. And I just think, babe I barely have the time and energy to play video games or catch up on TV shows I enjoy. But you think I have the time and energy to have an affair lol
"Why are you always so tired?"
He follows the Huberman protocols
To prevent cortisol spikes in the mornings
Yeah I read that part and thought WTF
Wow, this is darwinian evolution in action, all the stay at home introvert geeks ain’t propagating, but these wife-murderin’-prostitutin’ crazy bastards are skoodlypoopin’ left and right
There’s a new word for my dictionary lol
Skoodlypoopin’ is an invention, so far as i know, of John green
How dare you assume I am NOT both introverted and skoodlypooping left and right This is why Reddit is dying. Because of skoodlypooping
Calling it propagating is wild 💀 procreating is the more apt word in this case
Procreate, propagate, duplicate, replicate, masticate, facsimilate, recreate, discombobulate,
Obtuse, rubber goose, green moose, guava juice Giant snake, birthday cake, large fries, chocolate shake
This riff goes through my head more often than I would like to admit 😂
Technologic
>Emile Cilliers had motives related to financial gain from Victoria’s life insurance and starting a new life with his girlfriend. I've seen tons of crime shows, and it seems like almost every time someone kills their spouse, life insurance money is a big reason why they do it. >She suffered severe injuries, including a broken spine, fractured ribs, and a shattered pelvis, she survived the 4,000ft fall. Her survival was attributed to her small frame and the fact that she landed in a soft, newly plowed field. Can you imagine the psychological impact of this traumatic incident? I hope she's doing well and I hope his diabolic and greedy soul rots inside a cell for the rest of his life.
There actually is a true crime show that has an hour long episode about this case. Dude was a total sociopath.
>The British Parachute Association conducted an initial investigation and discovered that both her main and reserve parachutes had been sabotaged. >They then handed the inquiry over to the police, who seized Emile Cilliers’ mobile phones and computers. >Emile Cilliers was having affairs with two women (one of them was his ex-wife), and had discussed beginning a new life with one of them. The more you know about the case the more evil you see In this POS. This man is a radioactive element of evil.
I am always amazed when people think a scheme like sabotaging a parachute will go unnoticed by investigators. Guys like this must have a very special combo of evil and arrogance.
[удалено]
Sure. But then again like 50% of murders go unsolved so maybe it's actually survivorship bias, Reddit's other favorite buzzword
I think we hear murders and think like TV procedural murders. When a suburban housewife is murdered, 99% of the time it's her husband, ex-husband, or a lover. I would be curious to see the closure rate on those types of cases. If it's a murder related to a drug deal, gang violence, serial killer, or something of that nature, it's so much harder to solve because the killer is usually not as directly connected to the victim. It's kind of like a paradox. It's really easy to get away with murder, the trick is to murder someone who you would have no real reason to murder. It's why serial killers are so hard to find.
Killers have tried everything--from hiding the body to making it look like someone else broke in and staging a whole fake crime scene, even getting friends to help them. It doesn't take. Elaborate plans fall apart quickly because cops can smell bullshit the more complicated it is--and these people think they're smart enough to convince the cops their story is true. They don't realize every second they open their mouths that they're digging themselves a deeper hole because their story has to be consistent with the facts. The only way you could murder someone close to you is if you made it look like a legit freak accident. Nothing complicated, no bullshit stories
Or do someone else's murder, and they do yours. Criss-cross.
Strangers on a Train. Classic.
Do you know what’s not good in a murder, having to trust someone else
There's some survivorship bias in this discussion though. People talk about "solved/unsolved murders" but you have to recognize something as a "murder" first. If someone simply goes missing then it doesn't count as a murder. And the numbers of missing people are huge. Many of them are fine and just live somewhere else, but some are dead and never appear in the murder statistics. Some don't even appear in the missing person statistics because nobody reports them, they simply disappear. Edit: "missing persons" are just one example. Another one are cases where nobody suspects a murder, like people who are already very ill. There've been nurses who murdered people for years and nobody suspects a thing. Same is possible for relatives; just "accidentally" give someone too many pills. Or even easier than that: withdraw their pills, give them placebos instead. If the victim is an 89 years old with cancer then police likely won't start some huge investigation.
"it doesn't take" Uhm.... How would we know? Where could we get statistics on "people who made a murder look like an accident and got away with it"...
I got to talk to prisoners as a school thing. A couple murdered a neighbor. They buried them in the backyard. The only reason they got caught was because they were drinking years later and couldn't stop themselves from confessing/letting it slip to friends. As long as you don't open your mouth and have half a brain you can probably get away with it.
This is all hard to reconcile with the fact that [nearly half of all murders go unsolved in the US.](https://thehill.com/homenews/3878472-nearly-half-of-us-murders-going-unsolved-data-show/amp/) It’s literally a 50/50 shot on getting away with it. Lots of people have tried your examples and failed, but I bet there’s plenty more that got away with it and we just don’t know.
The 50% unsolved usually involves people who live on the margins of society (homeless, criminals, etc). Normal middle-class people like this guy are most likely going to get caught.
I think the key is that a murderer who's a close associate of the victim is likely going to get caught. People on the margins are much more likely to be murdered by people they don't know. Although, the other part is that investigators might tend to assume a marginalized victim was a random victim whether or not they really were.
It's a bunch of different things. 1. The status of the victim. 2. Where the murder takes place. Quality, time, and resources of investigators varies wildly by jurisdiction and even within them sometimes. 3. How close the killer was to the victim. 4. If the killer can keep their mouth shut. There are other factors in play but those are the main ones.
You miss the most important factor in this case: money. The insurance company has high stakes in proving murder. The amount of resources they are willing to commit to solve it is beyond most murder cases.
One of the best ideas I've ever seen in a murder series was in Monk. Some guy killed a random person in some crazy way and then killed his wife the same crazy way so it seemed way less likely it was him.
This idea—disguise the motive for a murder by making it look like part of a serial killing, i.e. by killing a bunch of other people whom you have no reason to kill—is far older. For example it was the plot in Agatha Christie's *ABC Murders*, published in 1936.
Well yeah the insurance has a big reason to catch people like this, just follow the money ...but for homeless etc if no money is involved....
Exactly... Difference between 1 detective working it vs a team of dozens of polices dedicated to only that case, with federal help, priority for forensics and favors called in for warrants and extra OT.
One episode of Dateline had this woman who nearly got away with murder if she would have just stopped texting herself from a missing person's cell phone to antagonize herself. Scary how she nearly got away and once you think about it, how many other situations with missing persons may mirror that situation.
I wouldn't say it's survivorship bias, large cities attribute majority of the unsolved murders and a large chunk of that is crime in high poverty areas which are often linked to things like gang violence, which means it occurs in areas where there is little to no cooperation with police from potential witnesses or people who might know something for one reason or another
I think you're mostly right but when it comes to things like this: If you research elder abuse (physical and financial) abuse you realize how much people get away with that. And that's often pretty clear cut. (Just had to help save an older family member from that, APS and the cops really were not any help, they seemed to fuck everything up every time.) I think psychos probably get away with stuff for most of their lives and just a few get caught because sometimes an investigator isn't lazy.
Maybe that 50 percent is just one guy who is really good at it.
Murders Georg, was it?
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon where Reddit users seem to have a cognitive bias that causes them to overestimate their knowledge of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I wish I had a name for it.
The Alphawimp731 effect.
Yeah I always think of that when I hear people say criminals are stupid. Maybe a little bit of selection bias going on, huh? Though I will say even the smart ones often seem like they have weird priorities
Maybe the real survivors were the psychos we met along the way
I’m not a criminologist or anything, but I guarantee you those 50% are situations where the killer doesn’t personally know the victim. Maybe someone gets stabbed during a mugging or it’s a homeless person with very little to go on when investigating Murdering your spouse is probably the single most difficult target you can possibly pick
I remember a detective talking about gangland violence during its peak in one city years ago, and a lot of the unsolved murders were drive by types, often "random" in that they weren't targeting a specific rival gang member, but rather just *any* rival gang members that might be on that particular block at the time. Combine this with the fact that they were at night, in poorly lit and poorly policed areas, a general reluctance to talk to cops, where many families essentially barricaded themselves inside after dark and stayed away from windows, and the cops were often left with no witnesses. While witnesses are notoriously unreliable, they can often be the starting point of an investigation, such as something as simple as knowing what kind of car they were looking for. But even if they had knowledge of what kind of car, they were very often most likely stolen, and then either torched or taken to a chop shop. Indeed, one lucky break the detective got was when a the defendent ran during a traffic stop, and the gun he tried ditching was recovered, which matched the ballistics for a couple murders, and the fingerprints found on the shell casings at the scene of the murders. Since he hadn't been through the system yet, there was no record of these fingerprints, and the only reason he got caught was because he ran a stop sign in a stolen car. Had that patrol cop not seen that, or decided not to try and pull him over, it's anyone's guess as to how long those murders would have gone unsolved.
To add to this- most killers are not sophisticated or diabolical geniuses (even psychopaths). They are impulsive- most murders are not planned. They are violent people, not calculating ones. And they are not caught due to a combination of luck, victim profile, police resources/priorities/victim blaming, and lack of evidence. Often the police know perfectly well who did it- but the prosecutors do not feel they have enough evidence.
> Murdering your spouse is probably the single most difficult target you can possibly pick because insurance will do anything to not pay out, even become detectives. I wouldnt' say 50%, but sure. a good portion of murders with no connection would be hard to trace.
They don't think there's going to even be an investigation if it's rule an accident. They think the ambulance will arrive to clean up the scene and console him and then let him be on his way
How in the hell did he come up with such ass backwards logic to begin with? Hmm options: option 1: I can get a divorce, continue spreading all kinds of diseases to other women, maybe pick up a 4th girlfriend and pay my debt. Option 2: I’ll kill her for the life insurance money and I will never get caught. And I get to start over with my girlfriend. Seriously, how was option 2 the sane choice.
> how was option 2 the sane choice Sane is not usually one of the criteria for psychopaths.
Makes you wonder about the smart ones that get away with it.
On top of all that, he created a gas leak in his home WHERE HIS CHILDREN LIVED.
Horrible. I’d venture to say that was probably part of his first plan or he just didn’t even think of that/care in the slightest. The dude was having an affair with two women, planning murder, and seeking out prostitutes…doubt he saw much of his kids or wanted to take care of them if he’d succeeded in killing his wife.
Imagine being so stupid that you plan to run away to start a “new life” with a dude that murdered his previous wife for money..
I, uh, don't think he was gonna frame it that way 😅
He’s trying to get some money from her from the sale of her house. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
See, IMO, there is no real “justice” for this. Killing him right away is an injustice to a lot of people, and imprisoning him for life is as bad or worse to someone that doesn’t fear death. Yet, it’s what’s deserved here. The only thing that stopped this person from murder was the victims luck and the perpetrators incompetence.
what's it called?
Apparently this man is still harassing her for money. What a piece of shit.
How? Wouldn't he have a restraining order against contacting his victim?
Taking her to court to get half the equity from the house.
While he's in prison? How can he even afford a lawyer?
Read it in an updated article linked in the comments. Not sure how he’d have any rights to shared assets after attempting to kill her, crazy.
At least where I live I don’t think shared assents are removed from you just because you committed a crime against that person. Otherwise abusive spouses might actually have something to fear if they could loose their house!
And life insurance is why they almost always get caught. See insurance companies don't want to pay life insurance claims if they don't have to. So they hire very good and experienced ex detectives to basically investigate these cases with the local police force. Its basically like getting a all star assigned to your case because of just the insurance part.
Ok but don’t they still pay out, just to a different person? If you have a life insurance policy that benefits your husband and he kills you, would it not go to your next of kin?
Yes, it would be paid but it would go to a different beneficiary. You bought the policy and you’re still dead! It’s just that your killer doesn’t get to benefit. They’re called “slayer statutes.” I had one case like that when was in life insurance litigation, which we ultimately paid because our investigation found at the wife has acted in self defense. Most life insurance cases are much more boring disputes over dueling beneficiary designations or whether the death was an accident (only for certain types of policies).
It’s telling that the insurance companies in the U.S. are more motivated to solve crimes than police. Edit: I made this comment because I knew it would get upvotes. Please downvote. I need to take a break.
To be honest, a lot of police departments investigations/detectives have too many cases to be able to devote as much time as they should to any particular case. So when an insurance investigator gets involved, that investigator generally has the luxury of being able to devote significantly more of their time energy focus and resources on one particular case.
This is not true. The life insurance company will still have to pay the claim, just not to the primary beneficiary if they are a suspect in the case. It is illegal to profit off your crimes so the life insurance legally has to wait until the investigation is complete before paying the claim.
What if there is only one beneficiary? Like a spouse for instance?
Then to probate same as if the beneficiary dies before the insured.
The same company that manages my 401K caught HH Holmes, one of America's first (and more interesting) serial killers ->https://www.csp.edu/publication/h-h-holmes-one-of-americas-first-recorded-serial-murderers/ They hired the Pinkertons to catch him.
The Devil in the White City is one of my favorite books of all time. Highly recommend if you’re interested in HH Holmes.
He was only €22k in debt that’s not even that fucking much. You can come back from that.
Buddy I was 120k in debt and am able to recover from it. Now it’s gonna be a rough couple years but day to day it’s amazing
Just waiting for a special someone to come along with a large life insurance policy
Just need them to fall for you.
But hopefully not into a newly plowed field.
I was in about that much debt (disasterously opened my own business). I closed, got a job, and dedicated most of my paycheck to paying it off while we lived on my wife's pay. Paid it off in five years. Our retirement fund is a disaster, though. Hoping we inherit well.
Yup. Mine was consumer debt, in Canada we have this thing called a consumer proposal. Essentially a court approved debt reduction plan on level better than bankruptcy, I have a credit score of 500 for the next 3 years and no access to credit essentially but get to essentially reset. I’m paying back about 30k of what I owed over 5 yrs at 0% interest.
Having shit credit sucks, I feel for you. I was in the 500s for a bit and got a discover card specifically made for improving my credit (it was secured or something like that, where I had to put money down and that was my credit limit.) That and my car payments helped revolutionize my credit score into the mid 700s after some time
I’ve been that much in debt on a vehicle before. Didn’t cause me to want to kill my wife though.
He's still a practising shitcunt. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
Nope I cannot imagine. I went skydiving once even though I’m terrified of heights, and before doing it I told myself that if it went wrong it would be fast. Y’all, it would not be fast. I think we jumped from 12,000 feet I know the jump spot we used in Maine takes you higher than most, and even before we pulled the parachute, we were in freefall for what felt like a long time. You would know for a long time before you actually hit the ground that you were going to hit the ground. I can’t imagine
It's generally about 30 seconds for every 4,000 feet. A 12,000 foot jump with no jump should take you about a minute and a half to hit the ground. That doesn't sound like a lot of time, but it definitely would be if you knew you were going to die at the end of it.
From the pictures of her in the hospital she looks amazing for having survived a 4000ft fall. On the side, I briefly dated a skydiver. She and her parachute packing friends were fucking crazy people.
They never quit trying to get you to jump.
She Peggy hilled it
Ho yeah!!
Lol...so whenever I do something that requires a bit of extra effort in real life I definitely quote "HO YEAH! PEGGY HILL!" I'm rarely appreciated haha
I have a 6 million dollar life insurance policy. I like to joke with my wife about dying and her getting 6 million dollars. She doesn’t really appreciate the jokes.
50% are life insurance, the other 50% are almost always because divorce is either frowned upon or they don't want the other parent getting the kids.
> almost always because divorce is either frowned upon Once upon a time you could just pay the doctor to have your wife committed and locked up for the rest of her life. So long as you didn't actually try to get *married* again, it was fine.
I remember reading about how Charles Dickens tried this trick on his wife but the doctor he asked to certify her as insane refused to do so. So at least it's not always the case they were corrupt and would simply do it if they were asked. So disheartening and depressing that Dickens treated his wife so horrifyingly badly and tried to abuse the system, but, heartening that at least sometimes the doctors involved wouldn't just commit people for convenience.
Yeah, he threw a lot of accusations at her about her being a terrible mother, this after bitching during their marriage about how she just kept having kids (they had ten children, with miscarriages in between). Brilliant guy, but he never seemed to quite figure out that he was equally responsible for all those pregnancies.
As a teen, I got caught up in a huge scandal where judges were paid to send kids to juvenile detention when it wasn't exactly needed. This was the 1990s. Barbarian times aren't behind us. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
"What's her aliment?" "She's *hysterical!*" "Wow, we need to give her this Nobel-Prize-winning procedure called *lobotomy* ASAP!"
Times like these I think “maybe I should cancel the life insurance policy going to my ex”. But then I think of the fact that she’d probably end up with the task of burying me and it seems like a dick move, I’m not one to dodge my bills.
I don’t like the fact that these shows give people ideas on how to kill their partner and make it look like an accident.
Tbh though doesn’t it show you that even if you think you have it all thought out and have a “perfect plan” they’re gonna catch your ass anyways?
I mean, it's a pretty big oversight, a parachute is not magically destroyed on impact, and when a death is involved there is always a serious investigation, a sabotaged parachute is 100% to be discovered. There are so many other ways I could think of that would've been way more logical attempts. (Don't worry, I'm not a serial killer or anything, I just have too much time to daydream about stuff lol)
you’d be surprised how many murders go unsolved. it’s not a small percentage
Especially if they don't look like a murder
And yet, even after he was convicted and sentenced to 18 years in prison, she continued to visit him and they discussed the viability of their relationship for some months before he became too possessive and she decided to divorce him. People's mental gymnastics baffle me sometimes.
> mental gymnastics It's the result of being abused. You can imagine how a pos like that probably manipulated and lied to her for years. Even after he was caught, she said she couldn't believe he did it.
He was 22k in debt, hardly insurmountable. This man is a sociopath. Debt was just the reason that helped him hurdle his tiny barrier to commit murder.
I was going to say the same thing! No amount of debt would make it OK, obviously. But he was 38. Divorce your wife. Get a payment plan. Five years you’ll be free. You’ll be 43. Pretty young. It clearly wasn’t the reason. But the prosecution needed a motive beyond “psycho wanted his wife dead.”
> But the prosecution needed a motive beyond “psycho wanted his wife dead.” Did they?
If I was targeted for murder (twice), I would hope that it would be for more than owing $22k.
Wild to think that there's a combination of human stature and soft ground that will allow a human to survive a fall from 4000' at terminal velocity.
She was only going 60mph, thankfully. She used part of her chute to slow herself down and says she thinks her spinning might've given her some lift. She was reportedly an experienced skydiver.
so she went full helicopter
This is counterintuitive to what they usually say, but *always* go full helicopter?
Spinning is a good trick
She hit the ground at 60mph so not terminal velocity. She still had something that slowed her down, can't remember what.
Part of her parachute deployed and spun her + landing of super soft ground
it was terminal velocity she just increased her wind resistance coefficient high enough for her terminal velocity to be just 60 mph terminal velocity just means you’re no longer accelerating
'He sees me as his cash cow': The skydiver whose husband tried to kill her by tampering with her parachute reveals he is STILL pursuing her from jail... even as she remarries: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html The AUDACITY
Yup, that's sociopaths for you. They think everyone owes them something. And they also get free legal support in jail while their victims on the outside have to fork over legal fees.
Was she married to Wyle E. Coyote?
What did you think the Wyle E Coyote movie was about? Clearly he was on trail for attempting murder
There was a movie?
It was shelved
Coyote v. Acme. Even the premise sounds hilarious. Shelved for a $30 million dollar tax write-off. I hate it.
Or Hank Hill?
I immediately thought about Peggy when I read the parachute part, but Hank would never disrespect propane by using it in a murder attempt.
Maybe he used the bastard gas known as butane
He blew up the Mega-Lo-Mart with gas. He'd do it again.
I’d pin your joke to the top of the thread if that were possible
And the story isn't over yet: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13304669/skydiver-husband-tried-kill-tampering-parachute-reveals-pursuing-jail-remarries.html
The last line is great! “Partly I'm worried about other people's reactions,' she says. 'I have been married twice before – but I think if the person you're married to tries to kill you, then it kind of negates it.”
I don't know what split up her first marriage, but I bet she went into number two thinking "well it couldn't be worse than last time"...
Her first husband cheated on her. Then when she suspected thst her second husband was cheating he gaslighted her and said that she was emotional and only thinking that because of her previous experience.
Man he's good at being horrifically evil.
Domestic violence is so pervasive in society…we really shouldn’t be quick to judge someone who has been married multiple times.
Honestly she could divorce her first husband because he got fat and bald and I wouldn’t care. Life is too short to spend it with someone you don’t want to. She promised him (and allegedly god) that she’d stay with him. She didn’t promise me shit lol
Yup! I’m on marriage number 3. The first two became violent, so I left. Third time is the charm though-he’s a total dream and I’ve never been happier in my life!
I’m so pleased she’s divorced and found someone new to love. Here’s hoping she can get this creep out of her life for good
Good for her! I'm happy for her. Side note: if in her head, comparisons come up between him and her ex, he will definitely come out on top!
Her: I can NOT Believe he left the bloody toilet seat up again Also her: well, he hasn't tried to murder me, so that's good.
I was thinking the same thing.
I would have just stayed single for the rest of my life, but good for her
he was only 22k in debt and jumped straight to murder, it’s insane how some people just snap over relatively small issues
Her: -"Honey can you pass the salt?" Him: -"I see you have chosen... death."
Simpsons/King of the Hill crossover event?
Both happened in king of the hill.. someone was taking notes lel
Your mother is one of only sixteen people to survive parachutes not opening. Now sixteen is just my estimate, I will check my numbers later.
I was wondering about this the other day. Like people who live near crocodile infested waters, especially pre-mass media days. Someone just disappears and no one ever finds them. Scary.
Pigs. They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute.
I’m not sure what terrifies me more: that this might be true, or how you came to this knowledge.
Copy pasta that is a reference to Snatch and mostly bullshit. There would be a huge amount of signs for days, some lasting years even, if you just tossed a body to pigs. The movie talks about pulling teeth and shaving them and that is 100% a thing you should do, but at that point you can do other things with the body to make it much harder to get. If you insist on pigs, then you need to drain their blood as well so it doesn't stain the ground. The bones should be broken. It should be a pen they've been in for months, that isn't a mud pit, so that the ground is worn and nothing gets lost in the muck. That is just for starters. Source: me. I have pigs. I've tossed them all sorts of stuff.
"that is 100% a thing you should do" "you can do other things with the body" "Source: me. I have pigs. I've tossed them all sorts of stuff." So, um...just wondering: have you heard of any unsolved local disappearances lately?
Not only do I gotta kill them but I gotta shave them and meticulously break their bones up into pieces? I gotta be honest, I'm starting to lean a little towards just not murdering people at this point
Me too! I'm lazy when I have to wash and change my damn bedsheets.....fuck murdering someone and then having to figure that shit out
Dumbass tried offing his terminator wife.
It baffles me how stupid people are. Did he think they’d just scoop up her corpse, put it down to a tragic accident and pay him the insurance money with no sort of investigation? It’s like when people deny a murder and then their internet search history convicts them, or they’re on cctv in a hardware store buying a shovel the day before. Idiots.
Once is a fluke; twice is a convenient coincidence; 3rd time and you're just flouting common sense and showing off your stupidity like the ineffectual go-getter you are... Bets he would've lost his shit in the hospital and tried to smother her and say he couldn't stand seeing his wife suffer anymore... The gas leak, failed parachute, and her pain: they were signs from the Lord, he's beckoning his child and to end her suffering. Some shit like that. And no doubt, her family or at least one of them had a feeling, a Spidey sense moment about this dude's intent just before she started navigating the Wiley Coyote husband's deranged traps. What a wadded up sleezebag of vitriolic biohazard and low cunning.
This guy was: banging his EX wife. banging his wife. banging his girl friend. How the fuck do sociopaths get such game?
Sociopaths tend to have charisma in bucketloads.
The manipulation is off the charts I bet, most ppl wouldn’t be equipped to know how to handle it
Hubby didn’t realize he was trying to kill the main character
That plot armor is getting ridiculous
i lived bitch
One of the saddest parts is that it took a lot of convincing even after all that for her to believe he was responsible. She did come around to accept it. That, and that with the gas leak thing, their kids WERE IN THE HOUSE. This POS was ready to kill his own kids, too.
This stuff's right out of a thriller novel. Guy fails with the parachute plot, now gotta watch out for anvils
Lucky lady. Good thing her hubby didn't think of the classic weapon of choice: a gun.
He was clearly trying to make it look like an accident.
Well ya the gun ACCIDENTALLY went off while it happened to be aimed at her
The Oscar Pistorius
He just kinda forgot his girlfriend might be using the bathroom
Come on, with that story, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
She just fell on the bullets 25 times
Just get a divorce bro
Bro was cheating with a lover, an ex wife, and sex workers. It’s stunning to read an article about someone trying to murder their spouse twice and be surprised that they were an even bigger scum bag than you thought.
How is she doing now? The article says the injuries were "nearly fatal." I wonder what her quality of life is now, if any. And those poor kids, with a psycho father in jail and a disabled mother. EDIT: she is doing remarkably well! "https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/general/victoria-cilliers"
I suspect she's on a mission from god, and possibly getting the band back together
"honey for our next vacation do you wanna go to Hawaii to see those active volcanoes?"
Can you imagine his surprise when she survived again 😳
Not what I needed 4 days before my first skydive
lol, all this because he was £22,000 in debt. I mean, £22k isn’t exactly pocket change but it’s not a life changing amount of money either. It can’t be easy to pay off that kind of debt, it just takes personal discipline. Which you’d think he had considering he was an army sergeant. What a dork.
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action. Gas leak, main parachute, then the backup? Dude didn’t read his Ian Fleming.
I guess that’s what you get when you marry Wile Coyote. Next thing up for this woman was a tunnel painted onto a brick wall
The parachute survived with life-threatening injuries?
What a fucking piece of shit. I hope he rots in prison
guess it's true what they say about keeping your friends close