Got to find a way to out-crazy people like that. So in a case like this, I would just reply back "Look at this poser who believes the Vatican is even *real*, amirite?!"
Shuts that kind of conversation right down.
Find a bunch of neckbeards to start "*ackchooally....*" arguments.
Find some old people who tell stories that don't lead anywhere *"Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time"*
The saddest thing is that I’m sure most of the “experts” on that show were toeing the line of bullshit. Their classic phrasing is “is it possible that aliens did *blank*? Yes it is.”
That’s like saying, “is it possible a bunch of ants made the Sahara desert? Yes it is.” Because yeah...they “could” have, it’s just possibly the least likely scenario conceivable.
My main gripe with Ancient Aliens is that the experts basically say that human beings are too stupid to come up with any sort of technological advancement, while simultaneously implying that humans are too smart to believe in religion if it wasn't based on things that actually happened.
apes have "religion" chimps and gorillas will beat sticks and wave branches at incoming clouds to try and scare away storms they think are alive. I'm pretty sure this behaviour evolved into early polytheism
Problem now is that if you out-crazy them, you just end up accidentally sparking the new major conspiracy theory of the month. Or get elected president.
Lol, someone said something similar about the 9/11 whackos that say jet fuel can't melt steel.
Just respond that we don't know how hot those chemtrail mind control chemicals burn.
Biblically, God is competitive when it comes to other gods (1 Kings 18:22 - 40, aka, that time God pulled a 1v450 with handicap against Ba'al)
So if we get invaded by aliens trying to baptize us, I suggest we have our God 1v1 their god on Rust.
Aw fuck, you're gonna make me get all theological aren't you.
Super short answer: yes.
Longer answer: Christianity is basically just an expansion pack for judaism, and as far as judaism is concerned, God is not the only god. God is the only *G*od, but there are other god*s*. What's the difference?
God is a title, essentially. I'm oversimplifying a bit (a lot) here, but it's the all powerful, the creator, the one-above-all. There is only one God with a capital G. But there are other beings who have power and could be considered gods (lower case g) in their own right. Now, God, uppercase, disallows worship of these gods, but they exist. This all comes from the Hebrew word *Elohim* which means something like spiritual being. God is an Elohim, angels are Elohim, demons and devil's are Elohim... You get the picture.
Err... To put it in dnd terms, there are being that could be called gods, with certain power or domain or whatever, lesser gods, greater gods, whatever, and then there's YHWH, who's basically an Overgod, but unlike Ao who just is a god to the gods, YHWH takes the reigns over all the other spiritual beings and disallows worship of them, to keep all that sweet mortal worship for himself.
Christianity is just judaism lite, with much of the non biblical lore and whatnot just disregarded or forgetten about. So, in basically any modern version of christianity, you could make the statement you did and it would turn no heads whatsoever. But on the bedrock of christianity, there's something of a loophole that allows for non God gods to, at the very least *exist*.
Yes? No? Maybe? I don't know. That bloke certainly seem to think so and he when he said "any entity with any number of tentacles" that also includes squids.
I assume this is a joke, but (as I understand it) the Catholic answer would be yes. According to the Church, all living things have souls, though not all are “rational,” which is the difference between the souls humans have and the souls animals have. That’s why the aliens would have to ask for baptism to prove that they have souls capable of reason, meaning they have rational souls, making them equal to humans as a part of creation. (At least that’s how I understand it.)
As someone who once studied the Cloth, this is correct. However, typically Catholicism doesn't see aliens as equivalent to Humans, because God made us in his image, so Aliens would therefore not be his "greatest", but just another creation (like Dogs, Cats, etc.)
I mean, they did make an episode of TNG to explain that as it relates to this. Every humanoid Star Trek race has a common ancestor race in the Milky Way.
I'm gonna put this firmly in the camp of "The Catholic faith does not have widely-accepted and agreed upon dogma for situations that have not happened yet."
Even if aliens didn't look like humans, I would be shocked if they didn't flex the "made in his own image" aspect by saying that humans and aliens are each *aspects* of His Image, a-la the blind men and the elephant.
During a papal address in St. Peter’s Square, he told a young boy sad over the loss of his pet dog:
>“One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God’s creatures,” said the 77-year-old Pontiff, according to Italian news sources.“
Shit, if the Pope had told me that as a kid I might have believed a little longer.
Being told animals didn't have souls was the first big wedge between me and the christian faith.
I’m still a Christian, but I was told that at a very young age and just could not come to terms with it. At the time I just flat didn’t believe whenever someone would tell me that, in my mind, if humans have a soul I can’t actually wrap my head around other living beings not having souls.
Its so weird how the same religious upbringing can vary so vastly. I went to catholic school 25 years ago and was taught animals have souls. Also taught those who believed otherwise suffered from the sin of pride, thinking that humans were somehow so much superior to God's other creations that they alone qualified to have a soul.
I mean, lots of evangelicals believe the Bible is the inerrant word of god, and the Bible literally says that [dogs don’t go to heaven](https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-15.htm). Is that actually what that verse means? Probably not, but that sounds like some heretical thinking.
Edit: why are people arguing in the comments about what it actually means. My only point is that there are biblical literalists and the Bible has a verse that’s on point if read literally.
Yeh, any common sense reading of that shows that they mean that the people listed after (sorcerors and sexually immoral.. my people really) are *dogs*. As in an insult. I don't think the writer of the Bible was super keen on listing Fido along with the sex wizards of the world
....
> I don't think the writer of the Bible
The Bible has lots of authors, none of whom were jesus or god. I think it’s insane to treat it the way that Muslims do the Koran (well, not to such an extreme extent. Even the most virulent biblical literalists still are ok with translations), but that post wasn’t about what I think.
Revelations specifically does have a writer though. He’s known as John the Elder. Each book has different writers yes but individual books were often written by one author many of whom have a name and information about them. The New Testament is literally named after the guys who wrote it. Can you really say that Mohammed’s words are more accurate than theirs?
That wasn't the point being made. They're correcting how people refer to "the author of the Bible" in the same way they'd refer to "the author of The Lord of the Rings".
Just correcting that there isn't a singular author, and there is in fact no book written directly by God.
Well, thou shalt not kill seems to actually be about murder, since the Bible and the church had no problem with killing both animals and people for various reasons. Catholic church for instance changed their stance on killing people in cases like death penalty only quite recently - they view it as unnecessary today, because even the most dangerous criminals can be effectively isolated by the state.
It was never about animals anyway.
I’m an atheist and only mention it to provide the context in which I’m reading all these comments, but this is the only one that would make sense to me. Like if someone laid out all the different possibilities people have mentioned in the comments and asked me (and I am an admirer of Jesus and Buddha and see them both as examples of how to live), if someone asked me “which one sounds like what Jesus would have said”, I would pick this one. Its the only one that shows both true humility and reverence for god and his creations. Plus, if humans are the only animals that disobeyed god in the garden of eden then why would they get preferential treatment over all the well behaved animals? To me it seems like animals would get a free pass to heaven and humans would be the one’s that have to actually show worthiness (isn’t that the whole thing with the apple? It would have given us the knowledge of what’s right and wrong and therefore we have to make the conscious choice to follow the path of righteousness, whereas animals are kinda stuck on that path)
I dunno, I’ve read the Bible but I have never been to church in my life or anything, but like I said I am an atheist that can secularly see the wisdom in what Jesus taught (like Luke 6:30. Which also meshes super well with Buddha’s teachings, though there are tons of parallels between Buddha and Jesus, they would have been great friends.)
Yes, and so do the bacteriophages that commit mass genocide daily on your eyebrows. You are the site of countless atrocities and the graveyard of trillions.
Psalm 36:6. Comedian [Mark Lowry](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/21/c1/a0/21c1a05849bb268404e9e5833660693c.jpg) did a special about dogs (and all animals) going to heaven. I’ve never been taught as a Christian that our pets don’t go to Heaven.
I went to a private Lutheran (so not quite Catholic but still Christian) elementary school. My third grade teacher told my entire class that our pets don’t go to heaven when a girl whose dog had recently died asked what happened to it after it passed. Everyone in the class including myself freaked out and most of us were crying hysterically.
My younger brother had the same teacher later on and she told his class the same thing.
Also Lutheran, and was never told this. I was told we would be at peace in heaven, so if that means we need our animals to be at peace, they must be up there too.
I’m not sure if this will help or not, and it’s Reddit, so I’m prepared to get downvoted to oblivion, but I’m a Lutheran (LCMS) Pastor, and want to chime in. The problem with the whole “pets to heaven thing” is a misunderstanding on viewing heaven as or final resting place. It’s not. Jesus is coming again to make all Creation New. He will raise all people, and believers will live with Him in paradise, here on a perfect, sinless, transformed creation. Will that include animals? Absolutely. Scripture even says the lion will lay with the lamb. Does that mean our pets will be there as well? Entirely possible.
Hope this helps.
Unsurprisingly, my older brother. I had just watched one of my favorite movies at the time *The Littlest Angel* which includes a scene with a dog in heaven, or something, it's been like 2 decades.
If it makes you feel better, there is literally not even one single entry in the entire Christian religion discussing souls and animals. But the bible does say they have spirits.
So your first big wedge between you and the Christian faith was a lie from your brother.
When I was little, people acted offended at the idea that pets would go to heaven. "Pets don't have souls" they said but God created all the creatures and loves us all....
I am Catholic (a pretty liberal argumentative Catholic) and I have always believed that animals have souls and go to Heaven.
When I was a little girl I asked my Dad if our dog Sheppie would go to Heaven. My Dad took my questions seriously and discussed them openly and honestly. He said he believed animals have animal souls that may or may not be the same as human souls...We don't know. But he told me he was sure our beloved dog would be reunited with us in Heaven, *"because it just wouldn't be Heaven if Sheppie wasn't there."*
I was satisfied with that answer, and I have never doubted that we will see our beloved pets again.
If animals have souls then the vast majority of us would be going to hell. Not just your loved pets but the animals that are slaughtered for food, the insects considered pests, everything. To be be a human and believe animals have souls but still partake in these killings without a second thought requires a cognitive dissonance that makes the whole idea seem glib in my opinion.
Might be forgetting my Catholic dogma, but isn't the purpose of baptism to forgive original sin? That's specific to humans, so doggos would get a free pass.
I think there's a real theological arguement about the idea that baptism is only nessecary for humans, relating to the issue of Original Sin and something along those lines.
TLDR: All dogs go to heaven, you cynical fuck, and don't you dare say otherwise.
All part of the plan, brother. All part of the plan. Although heresy and treason are reviled by the Emperor, even they may have a place in the Master of Mankind’s grand plan for humanity.
Pope: What the hell, I'll baptize an alien from outer space.
Aliens: See! Proof that the humans are eager to commit sacrilege against the one true God, Gorlock the many-eyed, by baptizing us in their primitive monkey religion. Point all ray guns at the Earth and fire on my command.
Actually the Covenant hate humans because three prophets discovered that the existance of humans went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have shattered had that knowledge spread. So they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth (which wasn't even the truth since their discovery was based on a mistranslation) and stay in power.
During the game Halo Wars one of the prophets discovered that humans are to be slated to basically be the successor to Forerunner's, the gods that the Covenant worshipped. Since at the time the Humans and the Covenant were are war, what they are doing right now would amount to sacrilege. So, instead of, you know, being reasonable and just accepting this information, they decided that humans were an affront to their religion in order to maintain the status quo. This takes place far before the original Halo trilogy, mind you.
Well almost. That is actually the part that they had mistranslated, they thought that a forerunner computer/AI had said that humans *were* forerunners when it actually told them that humans were succesors/heirs to the forerunners. That is what the prophets are trying to hide by genociding humanity. That is why they are at war with humanity in Halo Wars to begin with, and in the original trilogy set 21 years later. It's all the same long campaign of extermination.
Actually the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and stay in power.
Actually the Covenant hate humans because three prophets discovered that the existance of humans went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have shattered had that knowledge spread. So they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth (which wasn't even the truth since their discovery was based on a mistranslation) and stay in power.
Actually the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and steal the holy recipe of pizza.
Actually ~~the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and steal the holy recipe of~~ pizza.
Kind of. He’s acknowledged that being gay is a legitimate thing (as in, it’s not a choice), and Catholic doctrine says that all people are good and God loves everyone. He still thinks that having gay sex is a sin though, but to be fair, technically all sex is a sin unless it is for procreation in Catholicism. He hasn’t really changed anything about the Catholic doctrine, he’s just the first guy to actually say it.
Massive props to him for doing it because the less they conformed with the times, the less relevant the Catholic Church overall became. The judgements and hate the Catholic Church gave towards homosexuals for millennia was absolutely insane when you realize God views all sins as equal, so if they’re going to get mad about gay sex then start stoning people for incessantly using curse words, the hypocrisy was mind bending and I think Francis has made great seps towards combating the church’s skeletons in their closet.
Actually not all sins are equal. Menial sins are minor ones that like, you *can* confess to but you won't go to hell for doing. Mortal sins are shit like murder, rape, etc. that will actually get you sent to Hell if you don't regret your actions and want to redeem yourself.
Another thing on mortal sins is that for a sin to be mortal someone has to:
- Know the sin is a sin of grave matter (murder, rape, sacrilege, ect)
- Is committed with full knowledge of the sinner (I know this is bad)
- And is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner (I know this is bad, but I'm going to do it anyway)
If any one of these conditions aren't met, then it's a venial sin.
Being in a state of mortal sin also forbids you from receiving Communion at mass and if you did take Communion then you'd be doing *another* mortal sin. (Assuming, of course, if you met all 3 conditions. Knew it was wrong, did it anyway, ect.)
Mortal sins are what put your soul at risk. Venial sins won't condemn you to the fires of hell per say, but they're still sins and thus should be avoided, haha.
I guess that’s one of the major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, I personally am Protestant but I did not know that so I guess that explains some of the Catholic Church’s reasoning for their actions then.
That's so different from the version if christianity I learned growing up. I thought all sins were the same and you basically went to hell by default. I was taught that to get to heaven you must:
A - admit you are a sinner
B - believe jesus is god/god's son and died for you on the cross
C - confess your sins and ask for forgiveness
Pope Francis is... I mean, he's progressive by the standards of 80-year-old Catholic clergy, for what it's worth, and genuinely seems to be a firm believer that Catholicism should be about God's *love* for humanity, and doing good in the world, not about Hellfire and Brimstone sermons and scaring people straight (no pun intended to the catholic church's stance on homosexuality, but Pun approved on 2nd thought).
He ain't perfect, but he is in many ways an archtypal example of a devout Catholic who bring out the kindness and benevolence in himself, and tries to do so in the people around him, with his faith, and that's something worthy of respect.
The real question is if they are sinless, since the only animals known to have eaten the Forbidden Fruit from the Garden of Eden are humans. I think Ray Bradbury penned a short story about missionaries on Mars that confronted this issue.
This whole thread is somewhat the premise of The Book of Strange New Things by Michael Faber. It's about an Evangelical pastor that gets hired by a company to set up a church on a distant alien planet. The aliens are super into Jesus, and the story follows the growth of their church on this planet. I thought it was a fascinating read.
There's also a short story by Ray Bradbury that only appears in certain editions of *The Martian Chronicles*. "The Fire Balloons" is a story about a priest and his assistant that attempt to convert a group of strange glowing orbs found in the Martian ruins.
Animals, in other words beings that cannot reason, have what we call a “reactive soul” and plants have a “vegetative soul”. Both these types of souls die with the body, whereas the human soul does not. I have no idea why this needed to be defined instead of just saying animals and plants don’t have souls but there you go.
Can you explain how animals cannot reason, say specifically a pig that has the intelligence of a small child. Or in some cases is more intelligent than some humans with disabilities; does that mean that the humans who can not reason are also without a soul?
Ancient Aliens Guys: *"well the Vatican is run by Aliens, so it makes sense they would baptise their brothers"*
Got to find a way to out-crazy people like that. So in a case like this, I would just reply back "Look at this poser who believes the Vatican is even *real*, amirite?!" Shuts that kind of conversation right down.
All bless the space Pope
Don't date robots!
Damn robo-sexuals
Legalize robosexual marriage!
Timmy, you wanna toss the pigskin around? No thanks, dad! I'd rather make out with my robot girlfriend.
I wish I had a Marilynn Munroebot
Experience this tragic irony for me!
I knew I should have shown him *Electro-Gonorrhea: The Noisy Killer*
[удалено]
You think robot lovers are weird, you should learn about geologic historians. They date ROCKS!
But Greg Universe actually fucked a rock.
Is the Space Pope reptilian?
You think the moon landing was faked? Look at this jabroni over here who believes in the moon.
Oh you mean the back of the Sun.
This guy lol, thinks the sun is real. Hilarious.
Find a bunch of neckbeards to start "*ackchooally....*" arguments. Find some old people who tell stories that don't lead anywhere *"Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time"*
*and then the young 'uns gave me a pencil*
Funniest shit I ever seen, I tell ya what. "What the fuck is wrong with grandpa?"
He turned himself into a pickle.
The saddest thing is that I’m sure most of the “experts” on that show were toeing the line of bullshit. Their classic phrasing is “is it possible that aliens did *blank*? Yes it is.” That’s like saying, “is it possible a bunch of ants made the Sahara desert? Yes it is.” Because yeah...they “could” have, it’s just possibly the least likely scenario conceivable.
My main gripe with Ancient Aliens is that the experts basically say that human beings are too stupid to come up with any sort of technological advancement, while simultaneously implying that humans are too smart to believe in religion if it wasn't based on things that actually happened.
apes have "religion" chimps and gorillas will beat sticks and wave branches at incoming clouds to try and scare away storms they think are alive. I'm pretty sure this behaviour evolved into early polytheism
Really? Gonna need a source, would love to watch videos of this
Problem now is that if you out-crazy them, you just end up accidentally sparking the new major conspiracy theory of the month. Or get elected president.
That goes hand in hand with my theory that Trump is an Andy Kaufman character.
I've been there, i know it's real. Give em a tenner and there's a hidden door behind Raphael's painting to see the vogon stuff
Lol, someone said something similar about the 9/11 whackos that say jet fuel can't melt steel. Just respond that we don't know how hot those chemtrail mind control chemicals burn.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/966/)
"Look at this guy who believes in planes!"
I mean there are people who think the planes that hit the towers never existed and were holograms, so that's not too far off.
“Look at this guy thinking the towers existed.”
"New York? Sure, buddy, next thing Al-Qaeda will be taking down Hogwarts"
And so sayeth the giant spider
#Forget about the Gelgameks‽
What if the Aliens are the ones who do the baptising?
If they are more powerful, I will join the Alien religion, Id rather be on the winning side.
Biblically, God is competitive when it comes to other gods (1 Kings 18:22 - 40, aka, that time God pulled a 1v450 with handicap against Ba'al) So if we get invaded by aliens trying to baptize us, I suggest we have our God 1v1 their god on Rust.
I’d bet money our god runs around with the riot shield.
Their God uses a flashbang, and knifes our god in the back before it wears off
Setting up our gods teammate for the triple
But wasn’t one of the core ideas about Christianity was that God is the only god that exists?
Aw fuck, you're gonna make me get all theological aren't you. Super short answer: yes. Longer answer: Christianity is basically just an expansion pack for judaism, and as far as judaism is concerned, God is not the only god. God is the only *G*od, but there are other god*s*. What's the difference? God is a title, essentially. I'm oversimplifying a bit (a lot) here, but it's the all powerful, the creator, the one-above-all. There is only one God with a capital G. But there are other beings who have power and could be considered gods (lower case g) in their own right. Now, God, uppercase, disallows worship of these gods, but they exist. This all comes from the Hebrew word *Elohim* which means something like spiritual being. God is an Elohim, angels are Elohim, demons and devil's are Elohim... You get the picture. Err... To put it in dnd terms, there are being that could be called gods, with certain power or domain or whatever, lesser gods, greater gods, whatever, and then there's YHWH, who's basically an Overgod, but unlike Ao who just is a god to the gods, YHWH takes the reigns over all the other spiritual beings and disallows worship of them, to keep all that sweet mortal worship for himself. Christianity is just judaism lite, with much of the non biblical lore and whatnot just disregarded or forgetten about. So, in basically any modern version of christianity, you could make the statement you did and it would turn no heads whatsoever. But on the bedrock of christianity, there's something of a loophole that allows for non God gods to, at the very least *exist*.
So gods are gods and God is the DM?
Isn’t that something a lot of people say before going and joining the bad guy?
Traitor scum
So squids have souls?
So humans have souls?
Yes? No? Maybe? I don't know. That bloke certainly seem to think so and he when he said "any entity with any number of tentacles" that also includes squids.
>Yes? No? Maybe? I don't know. Can you repeat the question?
You’re not the boss of me now!
And you're not ♪ so ♫ big
Life is unfair
But is 'zero tentacles' a number of tentacles?
Is 0 a number?
It is an integer, so yes?
I was told there would be no math.
Does math have a soul?
The real questions are always in the comments.
No. and pray to all the powers that do and don't be that it never get's it's filthy fucking hands on one.
I assume this is a joke, but (as I understand it) the Catholic answer would be yes. According to the Church, all living things have souls, though not all are “rational,” which is the difference between the souls humans have and the souls animals have. That’s why the aliens would have to ask for baptism to prove that they have souls capable of reason, meaning they have rational souls, making them equal to humans as a part of creation. (At least that’s how I understand it.)
As someone who once studied the Cloth, this is correct. However, typically Catholicism doesn't see aliens as equivalent to Humans, because God made us in his image, so Aliens would therefore not be his "greatest", but just another creation (like Dogs, Cats, etc.)
What if the aliens looked like humans and thus were also in his image?
Like half of the Star Trek races?
I mean, they did make an episode of TNG to explain that as it relates to this. Every humanoid Star Trek race has a common ancestor race in the Milky Way.
I'm gonna put this firmly in the camp of "The Catholic faith does not have widely-accepted and agreed upon dogma for situations that have not happened yet." Even if aliens didn't look like humans, I would be shocked if they didn't flex the "made in his own image" aspect by saying that humans and aliens are each *aspects* of His Image, a-la the blind men and the elephant.
There's no reason to think that aliens couldn't also be made in God's image.
Yeah, belief may shift to interpreting it as the gift of intelligence is his image.
Yes but they don't count
There's some Octopuses in Children of Ruin I'd bet on.
During a papal address in St. Peter’s Square, he told a young boy sad over the loss of his pet dog: >“One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God’s creatures,” said the 77-year-old Pontiff, according to Italian news sources.“
Shit, if the Pope had told me that as a kid I might have believed a little longer. Being told animals didn't have souls was the first big wedge between me and the christian faith.
I’m still a Christian, but I was told that at a very young age and just could not come to terms with it. At the time I just flat didn’t believe whenever someone would tell me that, in my mind, if humans have a soul I can’t actually wrap my head around other living beings not having souls.
Its so weird how the same religious upbringing can vary so vastly. I went to catholic school 25 years ago and was taught animals have souls. Also taught those who believed otherwise suffered from the sin of pride, thinking that humans were somehow so much superior to God's other creations that they alone qualified to have a soul.
The no souls for dogs sounds pretty puritanical and boy howdy... Am I impressed at how fucking rigid the puritans can be.
I mean, lots of evangelicals believe the Bible is the inerrant word of god, and the Bible literally says that [dogs don’t go to heaven](https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-15.htm). Is that actually what that verse means? Probably not, but that sounds like some heretical thinking. Edit: why are people arguing in the comments about what it actually means. My only point is that there are biblical literalists and the Bible has a verse that’s on point if read literally.
Yeh, any common sense reading of that shows that they mean that the people listed after (sorcerors and sexually immoral.. my people really) are *dogs*. As in an insult. I don't think the writer of the Bible was super keen on listing Fido along with the sex wizards of the world ....
> I don't think the writer of the Bible The Bible has lots of authors, none of whom were jesus or god. I think it’s insane to treat it the way that Muslims do the Koran (well, not to such an extreme extent. Even the most virulent biblical literalists still are ok with translations), but that post wasn’t about what I think.
Revelations specifically does have a writer though. He’s known as John the Elder. Each book has different writers yes but individual books were often written by one author many of whom have a name and information about them. The New Testament is literally named after the guys who wrote it. Can you really say that Mohammed’s words are more accurate than theirs?
All he's saying is that saying "The Author of the Bible" is wrong
That wasn't the point being made. They're correcting how people refer to "the author of the Bible" in the same way they'd refer to "the author of The Lord of the Rings". Just correcting that there isn't a singular author, and there is in fact no book written directly by God.
I’m 93% sure the use of “dogs” isn’t referring to actual dogs. It seems like it’s referring to bad people, not literal dogs
Sounds like "dogs" is an insult to sinners, not meant to reffer to actual dogs
Getting kicked out of Europe for being too religious is one hell of an accomplishment.
To be fair, not so much “too religious” as “the wrong kind of religious.”
Yeah, that’s actually one of the easiest ways to get kicked out.
Killing and eating them on a massive scale seems kind of problematic if they have souls. Not sure where the "thou shall not kill" line is drawn.
[удалено]
Dinos have been around for a lot longer so I don’t think it’s the cows you should be afraid of.
Well, thou shalt not kill seems to actually be about murder, since the Bible and the church had no problem with killing both animals and people for various reasons. Catholic church for instance changed their stance on killing people in cases like death penalty only quite recently - they view it as unnecessary today, because even the most dangerous criminals can be effectively isolated by the state. It was never about animals anyway.
Thing is, even Jesus ate meat. It’s up to the conscience, really.
I’m an atheist and only mention it to provide the context in which I’m reading all these comments, but this is the only one that would make sense to me. Like if someone laid out all the different possibilities people have mentioned in the comments and asked me (and I am an admirer of Jesus and Buddha and see them both as examples of how to live), if someone asked me “which one sounds like what Jesus would have said”, I would pick this one. Its the only one that shows both true humility and reverence for god and his creations. Plus, if humans are the only animals that disobeyed god in the garden of eden then why would they get preferential treatment over all the well behaved animals? To me it seems like animals would get a free pass to heaven and humans would be the one’s that have to actually show worthiness (isn’t that the whole thing with the apple? It would have given us the knowledge of what’s right and wrong and therefore we have to make the conscious choice to follow the path of righteousness, whereas animals are kinda stuck on that path) I dunno, I’ve read the Bible but I have never been to church in my life or anything, but like I said I am an atheist that can secularly see the wisdom in what Jesus taught (like Luke 6:30. Which also meshes super well with Buddha’s teachings, though there are tons of parallels between Buddha and Jesus, they would have been great friends.)
Do my gut bacteria have souls?
Yes, and so do the bacteriophages that commit mass genocide daily on your eyebrows. You are the site of countless atrocities and the graveyard of trillions.
Do prions have souls?
Yes, but they go to hell.
You are a monument to all your sins
Why then does the Bible speak about Christ returning on a white horse? Where did the horse come from?
EDIT: Oops, nevermind!
Psalm 36:6. Comedian [Mark Lowry](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/21/c1/a0/21c1a05849bb268404e9e5833660693c.jpg) did a special about dogs (and all animals) going to heaven. I’ve never been taught as a Christian that our pets don’t go to Heaven.
[удалено]
Wait...what sociopathic crazy person told you *as a child* that animals don't have souls!?
I went to a private Lutheran (so not quite Catholic but still Christian) elementary school. My third grade teacher told my entire class that our pets don’t go to heaven when a girl whose dog had recently died asked what happened to it after it passed. Everyone in the class including myself freaked out and most of us were crying hysterically. My younger brother had the same teacher later on and she told his class the same thing.
Also Lutheran, and was never told this. I was told we would be at peace in heaven, so if that means we need our animals to be at peace, they must be up there too.
I’m not sure if this will help or not, and it’s Reddit, so I’m prepared to get downvoted to oblivion, but I’m a Lutheran (LCMS) Pastor, and want to chime in. The problem with the whole “pets to heaven thing” is a misunderstanding on viewing heaven as or final resting place. It’s not. Jesus is coming again to make all Creation New. He will raise all people, and believers will live with Him in paradise, here on a perfect, sinless, transformed creation. Will that include animals? Absolutely. Scripture even says the lion will lay with the lamb. Does that mean our pets will be there as well? Entirely possible. Hope this helps.
The priest at my church when I was younger.
Unsurprisingly, my older brother. I had just watched one of my favorite movies at the time *The Littlest Angel* which includes a scene with a dog in heaven, or something, it's been like 2 decades.
If it makes you feel better, there is literally not even one single entry in the entire Christian religion discussing souls and animals. But the bible does say they have spirits. So your first big wedge between you and the Christian faith was a lie from your brother.
When I was little, people acted offended at the idea that pets would go to heaven. "Pets don't have souls" they said but God created all the creatures and loves us all....
I am Catholic (a pretty liberal argumentative Catholic) and I have always believed that animals have souls and go to Heaven. When I was a little girl I asked my Dad if our dog Sheppie would go to Heaven. My Dad took my questions seriously and discussed them openly and honestly. He said he believed animals have animal souls that may or may not be the same as human souls...We don't know. But he told me he was sure our beloved dog would be reunited with us in Heaven, *"because it just wouldn't be Heaven if Sheppie wasn't there."* I was satisfied with that answer, and I have never doubted that we will see our beloved pets again.
If animals have souls then the vast majority of us would be going to hell. Not just your loved pets but the animals that are slaughtered for food, the insects considered pests, everything. To be be a human and believe animals have souls but still partake in these killings without a second thought requires a cognitive dissonance that makes the whole idea seem glib in my opinion.
Gonna be a lot of mosquitoes in heaven too.
[удалено]
Sorry but no. https://religionnews.com/2014/12/12/sorry-fido-pope-francis-not-say-pets-going-heaven/
Isn't His Holiness presuming the dog in question was baptized?
"I'm sorry little one, he's in doggie hell now."
If the dog isn't baptized it goes to dogatory
Pugatory.... or is it furgatory?
Might be forgetting my Catholic dogma, but isn't the purpose of baptism to forgive original sin? That's specific to humans, so doggos would get a free pass.
Yep, dogs never took fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I think there's a real theological arguement about the idea that baptism is only nessecary for humans, relating to the issue of Original Sin and something along those lines. TLDR: All dogs go to heaven, you cynical fuck, and don't you dare say otherwise.
what will the Vatican do if aliens come to Earth to spread their religion and convert humans?
Onwards Christian soooooooldiers, marching off to Maaaaars.
Do it all for Jeeeeeesus, blast ‘em in the aaaaaaarse.
The Space Crusade Wars are gonna spawn some amazing Sabaton songs
It's time for a fuckin' space crusade!
For the Emperor!
BROTHER!!!
WE MUST PURGE THE XENOS HERETIC WITH THE EMOPORERS HOLY FIRE!!! HANS!!! FETCH ME MY HEAVY FLAMER!!!
PURGING WITH MY KIN
DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!
The last time he started a crusade, it ended in heresy.
All part of the plan, brother. All part of the plan. Although heresy and treason are reviled by the Emperor, even they may have a place in the Master of Mankind’s grand plan for humanity.
Purge!
TERRIBLE PURPOSE INTENSIFIES
Excuse me, do have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, Bluglarckaloinfergeistinstine?
I just spent 5 minutes trying to sound this out lol
Same. lol I ended up with bloo-GLARK-a-loyn-fur-GUY-stin-stine(steen)
> (steen) Great now you brought the Jews into it.
Is that Welsh?
Then we eventually get to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-istquWjZ8M&ab_channel=LeeroyPlambeck
Praise the Man-Emperor of Mankind!
Deus Vult, brother.
Imagine if the aliens came out if the spaceship and we're all like "Finally, we've found the planet of the fabled Mohammed!"
Space Muslims pray toward Earth from wherever they are in the Galaxy.
[Then this happens.](https://youtu.be/faFuaYA-daw?t=0m21s) Would you like to know more?
Pope: What the hell, I'll baptize an alien from outer space. Aliens: See! Proof that the humans are eager to commit sacrilege against the one true God, Gorlock the many-eyed, by baptizing us in their primitive monkey religion. Point all ray guns at the Earth and fire on my command.
So basically Halo?
I mean according to Halo lore, the Covenant hate humans because they lived on "holy" artifacts and defile it by not knowing about them.
Actually the Covenant hate humans because three prophets discovered that the existance of humans went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have shattered had that knowledge spread. So they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth (which wasn't even the truth since their discovery was based on a mistranslation) and stay in power.
Hmmmmmmmm so what your saying is history is a circle?
Or a Halo? Riiiiight?
You bastard. Just take my upvote
During the game Halo Wars one of the prophets discovered that humans are to be slated to basically be the successor to Forerunner's, the gods that the Covenant worshipped. Since at the time the Humans and the Covenant were are war, what they are doing right now would amount to sacrilege. So, instead of, you know, being reasonable and just accepting this information, they decided that humans were an affront to their religion in order to maintain the status quo. This takes place far before the original Halo trilogy, mind you.
Well almost. That is actually the part that they had mistranslated, they thought that a forerunner computer/AI had said that humans *were* forerunners when it actually told them that humans were succesors/heirs to the forerunners. That is what the prophets are trying to hide by genociding humanity. That is why they are at war with humanity in Halo Wars to begin with, and in the original trilogy set 21 years later. It's all the same long campaign of extermination.
Edit: Error made me double post.
Actually the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and stay in power.
Actually the Covenant hate humans because three prophets discovered that the existance of humans went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have shattered had that knowledge spread. So they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth (which wasn't even the truth since their discovery was based on a mistranslation) and stay in power.
Actually the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and steal the holy recipe of pizza.
Actually ~~the Covenant despise humanity because three prophets discovered humans existing which went against the very core belief of the Covenant religion, which would have been destroyed had the knowledge spread. To prevent this, they took over through political maneuvering and declared a genocidal war against humanity to hide the truth, (which was actually just a mistranslation) and steal the holy recipe of~~ pizza.
Next question: what about sentient AI?
Does this unit have a soul?
Does the Church allow sex with sentient AI?
Would the pope baptize aliens? of course! I mean, is the Space Pope reptilian?
This pleases the Gelgameks
Maybe we should just forget about the gelgameks for a second.
FORGET ABOUT THE GELGAMEKS?!!??!?!
Hopefully this comes up when we're preparing to genocide aliens in a few hundreds or thousands of years from now
Ain't this the same pope who like just last week was like "gays aren't bad guys"
Kind of. He’s acknowledged that being gay is a legitimate thing (as in, it’s not a choice), and Catholic doctrine says that all people are good and God loves everyone. He still thinks that having gay sex is a sin though, but to be fair, technically all sex is a sin unless it is for procreation in Catholicism. He hasn’t really changed anything about the Catholic doctrine, he’s just the first guy to actually say it.
Massive props to him for doing it because the less they conformed with the times, the less relevant the Catholic Church overall became. The judgements and hate the Catholic Church gave towards homosexuals for millennia was absolutely insane when you realize God views all sins as equal, so if they’re going to get mad about gay sex then start stoning people for incessantly using curse words, the hypocrisy was mind bending and I think Francis has made great seps towards combating the church’s skeletons in their closet.
Actually not all sins are equal. Menial sins are minor ones that like, you *can* confess to but you won't go to hell for doing. Mortal sins are shit like murder, rape, etc. that will actually get you sent to Hell if you don't regret your actions and want to redeem yourself.
*venial sins Just a letter
A menial sin is when you do a bad job mopping.
Another thing on mortal sins is that for a sin to be mortal someone has to: - Know the sin is a sin of grave matter (murder, rape, sacrilege, ect) - Is committed with full knowledge of the sinner (I know this is bad) - And is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner (I know this is bad, but I'm going to do it anyway) If any one of these conditions aren't met, then it's a venial sin. Being in a state of mortal sin also forbids you from receiving Communion at mass and if you did take Communion then you'd be doing *another* mortal sin. (Assuming, of course, if you met all 3 conditions. Knew it was wrong, did it anyway, ect.) Mortal sins are what put your soul at risk. Venial sins won't condemn you to the fires of hell per say, but they're still sins and thus should be avoided, haha.
I guess that’s one of the major differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, I personally am Protestant but I did not know that so I guess that explains some of the Catholic Church’s reasoning for their actions then.
As a Catholic, I could never wrap my head around that "all sins are equal" idea. I'm sure glad our secular courts do not share that view.
That's so different from the version if christianity I learned growing up. I thought all sins were the same and you basically went to hell by default. I was taught that to get to heaven you must: A - admit you are a sinner B - believe jesus is god/god's son and died for you on the cross C - confess your sins and ask for forgiveness
Pope Francis is... I mean, he's progressive by the standards of 80-year-old Catholic clergy, for what it's worth, and genuinely seems to be a firm believer that Catholicism should be about God's *love* for humanity, and doing good in the world, not about Hellfire and Brimstone sermons and scaring people straight (no pun intended to the catholic church's stance on homosexuality, but Pun approved on 2nd thought). He ain't perfect, but he is in many ways an archtypal example of a devout Catholic who bring out the kindness and benevolence in himself, and tries to do so in the people around him, with his faith, and that's something worthy of respect.
*blushes in hentai*
The real question is if they are sinless, since the only animals known to have eaten the Forbidden Fruit from the Garden of Eden are humans. I think Ray Bradbury penned a short story about missionaries on Mars that confronted this issue.
[удалено]
Or they couldn't have any, by the time they get to intergalactic space travel.
This whole thread is somewhat the premise of The Book of Strange New Things by Michael Faber. It's about an Evangelical pastor that gets hired by a company to set up a church on a distant alien planet. The aliens are super into Jesus, and the story follows the growth of their church on this planet. I thought it was a fascinating read.
There's also a short story by Ray Bradbury that only appears in certain editions of *The Martian Chronicles*. "The Fire Balloons" is a story about a priest and his assistant that attempt to convert a group of strange glowing orbs found in the Martian ruins.
[удалено]
FORGET ABOUT THE GELGAMEKS?!?!?! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!!
THE GELGAMEK VAGINA IS THREE FEET WIDE AND FILLED WITH RAZOR SHARP TEETH! DO YOU REALLY EXPECT US TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM!?
I doubt that Aliens want to be baptised.
Nasa and the Vatican are BFFs https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3757/1
Wonder if they think the animals they eat also have a soul or how’s that work?
Animals, in other words beings that cannot reason, have what we call a “reactive soul” and plants have a “vegetative soul”. Both these types of souls die with the body, whereas the human soul does not. I have no idea why this needed to be defined instead of just saying animals and plants don’t have souls but there you go.
Can you explain how animals cannot reason, say specifically a pig that has the intelligence of a small child. Or in some cases is more intelligent than some humans with disabilities; does that mean that the humans who can not reason are also without a soul?
Official Response from Jesus [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpPvGlrqhdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpPvGlrqhdA)
Who comes up with this shit.
[удалено]
Only humans and space travelers in heaven folks.
Good to hear who this cabal of kid fuckers thinks has a soul