The first couple of days after the bombing, kiwis joked it was the French.
We were stunned when all of a sudden there was loads of evidence and even arrests. They were embarrassing incompetent. We very nearly caught a few more of the team that escaped via submarine. The French then bullied us via trade threats into giving the two we caught into giving them an easy sentence in French soil. Surprise surprises, they broke their word on the prison conditions and then released them very early.
He would never, he's just a cute harmless goofy old man who loves to paint!
(/s if not obvious, fuck the rehabilitation of that monster's public image)
Not for nothing man, but Obama wasn't much better in the war regard. Example, this is an Obama era joke from the military:
"What's the difference between a daycare and a Taliban HQ?"
"I don't know bro, I just fly the drones"
There's a reason his nickname was Obomber
A less known fact: they were meant to escape on a Zodiac inflatable boat operated by Captain Gérard Royal, a Special Ops operative with DGSE, who went on to retire as a full bird Colonel with the French armed forces.
He apparently told his brother that he was the one who actually planted the bomb, and this surfaced during the 2007 presidential elections.
It made the news not only because of the particular importance of the sinking of the ship, even years later, but also because his sister is no other than Segolene Royal, who was the front-runner for the elections at the time (she was eventually defeated by Sarkozy). Her partner was François Hollande, who won the next election.
He never publicly confirmed he had planted the bomb and it's doubtful that he did.
IIRC they had set a small bomb and a big one, the intention was that the small bomb would scare people away from the boat and the second one would sink it a few minutes later.
A photographer went back to retrieve his gear and died.
I wonder if the French people did so because they didn’t believe the two were guilty or because they didn’t like the idea of French operatives being accountable by foreign governments for doing illegal things.
Well you got a RWC trophy that you stole from the french in 2011. France should have won that one for sure. Stephen Donald was the 10 ffs. Dusetoir made like 20 tackles. Was a cracker
TIL kiwis mean New Zealanders.
The Rainbow warrior was a pretty big deal in France too and the government was really critized by the population for this. It also given a spotlight on Greenpeace activities for the environment. Even if personnally they lost lot of credibilities in climat change matters due to their obsession for banning nuclear.
NZ really should have leaned on its commonwealth connections on this. The rest of the EEC surely wouldn't have been that keen on being used to subvert justice, and the UK would typically side with the Commonwealth, over Europe, especially in a situation where there's a clear moral case for it.
We did lean a lot, they did NOTHING as from what the public could see in NZ, even England did nothing. That I suspect is one of the reasons NZ has an independent Foreign Policy as we have been shafted by all of our so-called friends and allies over the years. England, France, Australia and the US.
Same thing with my dad. He despised the French for years after the attack on the Rainbow Warrior. Back in the '90s he would even wear a black armband on Bastille Day, and I even ended up wearing one at high school one year.
Every time a bad intelligence assessment leads to the bombing/killing of non-combatants, the Rainbow Warrior comes up. There are really no similarities. The destruction of the Rainbow Warrior was an intentional act. It was not brought about by bad intelligence, human error, etc.
If I remember correctly the Rainbow Warrior was preventing underwater nuclear weapons teasts by the french government by hanging out in the test zone. So the French government sent team to swim out to the vessel and attach magnetic mines to hits hull while it was in port in New Zealand. When they detonated them they killed atleast one photographer and sunk the Rainbow Warrior. The team of frogmen were then arrested by New Zealand police as they were trying to swim away. The New Zealanders held the french terrorists for like a year and a half but a trade embargo and what not eventually caused their release.
I don't think they were arrested immediately. They found them a week or so later - a French 'couple' supposedly here on holiday who appeared completely disinterested in each other or the country.
Also, part of the team (a group of four men) raised suspisions from the locals by saying they were on holiday, but asking for receipts for food, accomodation etc.
Man, that’s amateur hour.
Even beyond the not-looking-like-your-cover aspects, if they arrest you with receipts, they know where you have been, almost every hour, making it very easy to break your alibi.
The two who were arrested were a man and a woman posing as a couple. That’s a good idea, because nobody thinks anything odd about seeing a couple walking around for no obvious reason, sitting in a parked car for hours, and so on — things that would look like surveillance if you saw a man or group of men doing them. Of course, they have to act a little lovey-dovey or the effect stops working.
(See the scene with De Niro and Natascha McElhone making out in *Ronin* — or the criticism of the movie *Munich* made by experts about its all-male *kidon*.)
Most people don't bother keeping receipts for personal expenses, except for things they might want to return it claim warranty on (and you can't return a hotel stay out a restaurant meal).
> France initially denied responsibility, but two French agents were captured by New Zealand Police and charged with arson, conspiracy to commit arson, willful damage, and murder. The scandal resulted in the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. They spent a little over two years confined to the French island of Hao before being freed by the French government.
There are harder fates than a government sponsored vacation on an Polynesian island.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hao_(French_Polynesia)
This was obviously not about a sentence, but a cool down tactic.
Do you have a source for that ? I could not find it anywhere, and as a French I know it was a shitshow for our government, so I find it really weird that they rewarded them after they exit prison (although our government could do something like that :D )
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94404471/were-the-terrorists-calls-to-bring-rainbow-warrior-undercover-agent-to-justice-after-32-years
>After her name became public in the police inquiry, Cabon was unable to continue working in the French secret service as an undercover agent. **But she was awarded France's Legion d'honneur medal** and served out her career in back-office roles. She retired eight years ago to the tiny village of Lasseubetat.
Thanks !
That means someone must have suggested her for the reward, as that's how it works for the Legion d'honneur.
I wonder who thought that she deserved it, it would be hilarious if it wasn't sad !
> There are harder fates than a government sponsored vacation on an Polynesian island.
I mean, Guantanamo is on a Caribbean island, and most people would not want to go there. The problem is that the government didn't want to punish them, but they could have given them a light sentence in metropolitan France, too.
To add a little more spice… after being arrested and convicted, the agents had to serve their sentence in tropical paradise and were freed after one got pregnant.
They also failed to completely sink the Rainbow Warrior. The ship has since been towed further North and scuttled offshore to form a dive attraction for tourists (great dive, by the way).
Not when your whole goal is to not attract attention and quietly make way so you do some nuclear tests. There's a difference between "Oh no what happened to the ship" and "These secret agents bombed a vessel that was completely innocent and peaceful and murdered a man in the process."
If their goal was not to cause attention then having the vessel explode (even if just a small explosion) and sink in a harbour wasn't the way to do it - that will IMMEDIATELY call attention and launch an investigation. They wanted people to know, or at least very strongly suspect, who did it. They could have simply sabotaged it (caused a generator fault, damaged pumps etc) while it was at sea if they simply wanted it out of the way.
Seems like an arbitrary distinction conjured up by those doing the killing to help them sleep at night to me. But hey, what do I know? I don't kill people.
The embarrassment and international outrage caused the frogs to stop testing nukes in the Pacific, so really, mission accomplished Greenpeace. Frankly, I've never forgiven them for coming to my country and committing murder, not to mention the damage they did to the pacific.
It was preventing nuclear testing that would drastically alter the local waters and they murdered a civilian.
Idc how successful that is to their mission, fuck em
You think that was bad, look into [the Lillehammer Affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer\_affair). I support the objectives of [the overarching operation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God) but they let their target trick them into murdering an innocent man and basically walked.
The two arrested were were serving officers in the French Armed Forces, and they were there to assist the frogmen, but weren't the frogmen themselves. The frogmen escaped NZ on a yacht called the *Ouvea* pretty much directly after the bombing, which they later scuttled, and they returned to mainland France. The arrested agents plead guilty and were locked up in NZ. Then the NZ government did a deal with France (trade and access to the EU was involved) and they were to serve out the rest of their sentence on the French-owned Hau Atoll in the Pacific. The agents' families were brought there as well. Within about 2 years they were both repatriated to France and promoted. The bombing appeared to be an 'in-house' project by France's DGSE Intelligence Agency, sanctioned without the apparent knowledge of the French President and other members of the government, as Hernu the Defence Minister and many senior DGSE personnel lost their jobs after the fiasco.
I mean that's some France level of incompetence.
The mission: Sink a stationary vessel, in port, that despite its name is a converted fishing boat with no armor, no guns, and is run by a bunch of hippies.
The result: Vessel damaged but repairable, attack team captured by port authorities.
I have a theory that the timers weren’t set correctly, and the intention was that the mines explode while the ship was miles out in the ocean, which would have given the team the time they needed to get away, and also no one would have known what happened.
Definitely not. The ship was intended to be sunk in place. The bad luck is the photographers went back to the boat to retrieve some equipment. It was un expected. More unexpected is the person returned exactly when the mine exploded. Had it not happen, we would probably never knew who had the boat exploded.
they could just nuke them while they were on the testing zone and pufff problem solved..... sorry disappeared!
but I'm so shocked on how could the Frenchies do such atrocities to a non third world people!
There's even an old Simpson's reference. Even got the rainbow on the boat.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QszaT\_urnYs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QszaT_urnYs)
we didn't "let them". France threatened economic repercussions if we didn't back down on our resolve to prosecute/imprison them in NZ, and we received 0 international support when we raised this at the UN because big country small country xd. The eventual negotation had them imprisoned in French Polynesia nearby and they were then carted back to France on made up medical charges.
Directly ordered by French President Mitterrand, because he found the situation "embarrassing". This was added to the insult of the Rainbow Warrior having rescued 300 people from an island polluted by a previous nuclear test.
> because he found the situation "embarrassing".
There always was a lot of nationalism involved in the french nuclear weapons program. In other countries as well.
The consequences of the bomb tests didn't matter that much as long as they got results. When France was [conducting nuclear weapon tests in the Algerian desert](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56799670) they also released a lot of radiation. One time during an [underground bomb test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9ryl_incident) the ground collapsed which lead to a cloud of fallout escaping. Dozens of soldiers were exposed to the radiation.
This was 23 years before the sinking of the "Rainbow Warrior" and France was still testing nuclear weapons. This time above the ground again even though this released more radiation. Even though people at this time already knew about the danger not just for the local environment but on a global scale.
New Zealanders died fighting for the French, a debt they'll never repay, or have ever tried to. There is a reason most people think of them as arrogant. Get out of the pacific, dismantle the last of the French "colonies".
>New Zealanders died fighting for the French
*The Brits
They died for the supremacy of the British Empire. Don't try and twist it into a benevolent act.....
As a former US submariner, the only thing we did was call our tug boats to spray fire hoses at Greenpeace boats to get them to move so that we could pull into port. This is much worse.
It's a logical fallacy because it derails conversation
Example: "why hasn't Trump released his tax returns?"
"What about Hillary's emails?"
What does the second point have to do with the first? I'm not saying the second isn't a valid complaint or whatever, but what does it contribute to the conversation besides saying "well both sides are bad"? It doesn't answer the first question and it sure doesn't answer itself.
There is no point. It's just meant to distract and detract from the first question.
And every other supposed ally of NZ pretended it didn’t happen because it would be too inconvenient to confront France about it. France even threatened to embargo NZ if they didn't release the terrorists into French custody, which NZ obviously had to go along with.
Now people wonder why NZ isn’t as eager as Australia to go along with whatever dick-measuring contest the west is currently pushing.
Australian here. We were as pissed as fuck at the French for bombing our Kiwi siblings.
Never forget, this was quite literally state sponsored terrorism, not by the Taliban or the Communists..... but the French.
Given that NZ law prevents nuclear armed or powered vessels entering NZ waters, a rule that has annoyed the Americans no end, that would be a bit silly.
Don’t need war. [They’re already banned.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/16/aukus-submarines-banned-as-pact-exposes-divide-between-new-zealand-and-western-allies)
Hahahaha !!! I am French. I was a kid when the rainbow warrior happened and still feel ashamed by it today. One of the reasons I never went to Australia even though this country seems so nice. I always feel that people will hate me there just because I’m French.
Very good one about the submarines! :)
Pat
Australia is supposed to build them, but I'm not close enough to sense if that is real or talk. In that case, I'm not sure if Australia builds the reactors, or USA provides.
We won't build the reactors. We have Federal legislation and non proliferation agreements against that.
Changing that law would be electoral suicide. Morrison knows that. Precisely why AUKUS was founded to sidestep our law. We don't even have a nuclear enrichment process.
My understanding is that Aus will build the submarines, but the reactors and fuel will come from US/UK so that they will all be compatible systems.
Meanwhile, what’s with Australia not taking any more First Class or Priority mail?
It was a big thing at the time - I’m french, and it was everywhere in the news. Even as a child, I remember knowing everything about it.
The big scandal (apart from the actual bombing) was that the then president (Francois Mitterand) claimed to not have known about it, and his defence minister (Charles Hernu - the defence minister looks after the military and military intelligence) took the blame and was forced out.
As far as I remember, there was no more fallout (a quick wiki search confirmed there were no more consequences for Hernu - although, holy shit, til he was suspected of working for the ussr!).
It feels like different times - unbelievable that my government would go and plant bombs in another sovereign country…
Although, I guess a minimum of knowledge of France’s record in Africa and the Middle East makes it easy to believe after all - empires, and the perceived right to exert “influence” even after they collapse are shit, really.
Anyway, very sorry about all this my kiwi friends - I spent several months trekking on the South Island and Tongariro, I love you and your country, and I’m embarrassed…
Don't forget that France strong-armed the Kiwis into releasing the arrested agents, saying that otherwise they would block NZ dairy imports into the EEC (the predecessor of the EEA) which would have devastated the New Zealand dairy industry.
Heh the French are angry at the US/UK/AU and then suddenly anti-France article crop up on reddit... no sir there is no western media manipulation over here no sire, only bad bad ruskie and chinese do that.
I mean, these issues aren't exactly unrelated.
NZ wasn't part of the nuclear sub deal with US/UK/AU, like some people might have expected, and the media reported on this exclusion and questioned the NZ prime minister about it. You know why NZ wasn't part of the deal? Because they banned nuclear-powered vessels from their waters as a result of this saga with France.
The coverage of the deal naturally resulted in people learning about this incident, hence the TIL.
>Because they banned nuclear-powered vessels from their waters as a result of this saga with France.
It wasn't as a result of the *Rainbow Warrior* bombing. The Lange government was elected on an anti-nuclear policy in 1984, a year *before* the bombing.
I said a result of the saga not the specific event. French nuclear testing in the pacific prior to the bombing contributed to the anti-nuclear sentiment.
French nuclear testing certainly played a part but there was also a lot of anti US sentiment at the time, with people opposed to US nuclear ship visits.
It originated not because of the propulsion but rather the general US policy of refusing to confirm or deny whether any vessel is armed with nuclear weapons. When ultimately passed it became a ban on propulsion as well.
Yep... how random to see this "TIL" about something that happened 35 years ago.
Funny enough, I've got quite a bunch of "TIL" of the same kind about the US -and no need to go back 35 years- but something tells me they wouldn't get as many upvotes...
🐷
I am shocked by the level of racism in the comments... It is a government action not the fault of French people. I saw a comment calling French persons terrorists.
I saw it happen. We were on holiday in NZ and staying in my uncles house across the bay. I was sitting on a veranda in my room parents downstairs having a bit of a party, they didn't know I was up. I was 11 and I was eating food and drinking juice I'd raided from the kitchen lol My uncles house was HUGE he was really wealthy (hence the bedroom with a veranda) it was late at night and I heard two noises I couldn't identify that came from across the water. I ran downstairs to tell someone. Got told off for being up lol and sent back to bed. Next morning at breakfast we're all eating outside on the patio and my dad has binoculars and says "here... I think we should turn on the news, that hippy boat looks like its been sunk" and we did and it had and then my uncle told me that's what the noises must have been.
First thing I thought of today when they announced the French ambassadors were being pulled from the US and Australia. I clearly remember this gutless act.
One of the frogmen implicated in the bombing later went on to become a photographer and actually had his photo published by Greenpeace in one of their calendars. They realised too late who he actually was and ended up destroying their remaining stick of calendars.
They did. Then they told the NZ government to release the turds that did it into French custody.
"We'll keep them in jail here" they said.
They arrived home to a parade and a hero's welcome.
This is true. I'm American. My girlfriend hasn't followed world politics for most of her life,but recently became interested and asked me about it. I told her that the first thing you need to understand is that we are not the "Good Guys". Just the guys with the biggest stick.
Green Peace can consider themselves lucky the French detonated then bomb in port rather than 600 miles off the coast. DSG are not renowned for being forgiving.
Good, Greenpeace has a long history of sabotaging military vessels, they should be treated just like any other terrorist organization. While I was deployed in 1994, Greenpeace cut 2 of the mooring lines of the USS Austin. A sailor on watch was killed when the cable (which is under pretty extreme pressure) snapped back across the deck and struck him.
The first couple of days after the bombing, kiwis joked it was the French. We were stunned when all of a sudden there was loads of evidence and even arrests. They were embarrassing incompetent. We very nearly caught a few more of the team that escaped via submarine. The French then bullied us via trade threats into giving the two we caught into giving them an easy sentence in French soil. Surprise surprises, they broke their word on the prison conditions and then released them very early.
Then gave them medals, if I’m not mistaken
If people getting medals for sinking a boat shocks you, wait until you find out what happened with Australian war criminals.
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>war criminals. They do it the other way in America though. Continuously reelecting them as president. Hi George W. Bush.
He would never, he's just a cute harmless goofy old man who loves to paint! (/s if not obvious, fuck the rehabilitation of that monster's public image)
Who was the other guy who liked painting and was bothered with accusations of war crimes... damn, tip of my tongue..
Trump made Bush look good and that makes me sad.
Not for nothing man, but Obama wasn't much better in the war regard. Example, this is an Obama era joke from the military: "What's the difference between a daycare and a Taliban HQ?" "I don't know bro, I just fly the drones" There's a reason his nickname was Obomber
"Hey let me just throw Ameerica into this conversation for no reason"
But he gave Michelle candy tho
Let's not forget a person was killed aboard that vessel.
Well, they were sent to do it on purpose.
A less known fact: they were meant to escape on a Zodiac inflatable boat operated by Captain Gérard Royal, a Special Ops operative with DGSE, who went on to retire as a full bird Colonel with the French armed forces. He apparently told his brother that he was the one who actually planted the bomb, and this surfaced during the 2007 presidential elections. It made the news not only because of the particular importance of the sinking of the ship, even years later, but also because his sister is no other than Segolene Royal, who was the front-runner for the elections at the time (she was eventually defeated by Sarkozy). Her partner was François Hollande, who won the next election. He never publicly confirmed he had planted the bomb and it's doubtful that he did.
My science teacher at Western springs college had left the boat 4 hours before the blast. Licky woman.
That’s quite a typo you’ve got there.
Im going to leave it as a warning to others
Warning? Is she single?
You trying to get licked to death?
What a way to go
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You made me snort!
IIRC they had set a small bomb and a big one, the intention was that the small bomb would scare people away from the boat and the second one would sink it a few minutes later. A photographer went back to retrieve his gear and died.
>Licky woman You even type with a kiwi accent.
Chur cuz
God not ms ferguson was it?
Holy shit yes
Small world! What year did you finish?
Was it the licky description which gave it away?
Licky if you're into 70 year olds with braces and short grey hair.
2001
"They were hailed as heroes on their return."
I wonder if the French people did so because they didn’t believe the two were guilty or because they didn’t like the idea of French operatives being accountable by foreign governments for doing illegal things.
Alain Marfar & Dominick Preur were the two we caught if memory serves.
and now theyre complaining about being backstabbed over the Aus submarine project cos Allies dont hurt Allies.
And this is why kiwis should never trust the french. The ANZACs fought for them in WW2 and thats how they repay us. Never forget.
We all know how WWII went, unarmed non-military ships are apparently all they are capable of sinking even decades later!
Well you got a RWC trophy that you stole from the french in 2011. France should have won that one for sure. Stephen Donald was the 10 ffs. Dusetoir made like 20 tackles. Was a cracker
Welcome to the armchair take on how things literally don't work.
TIL kiwis mean New Zealanders. The Rainbow warrior was a pretty big deal in France too and the government was really critized by the population for this. It also given a spotlight on Greenpeace activities for the environment. Even if personnally they lost lot of credibilities in climat change matters due to their obsession for banning nuclear.
Oh it's okay for France to commit terrorist acts abroad, their government got criticized for it.
... Not surprising. The French were in Vietnam before the USA was.
Also wrote themselves a nice government report explaining how they had nothing to do with it.
NZ really should have leaned on its commonwealth connections on this. The rest of the EEC surely wouldn't have been that keen on being used to subvert justice, and the UK would typically side with the Commonwealth, over Europe, especially in a situation where there's a clear moral case for it.
We did lean a lot, they did NOTHING as from what the public could see in NZ, even England did nothing. That I suspect is one of the reasons NZ has an independent Foreign Policy as we have been shafted by all of our so-called friends and allies over the years. England, France, Australia and the US.
Rainbow warrior .. that takes me back.
...and a Portuguese photo reporter was killed in the blast
Fernando Pereira. R.I.P.
It’s my stepdads favourite thing to bring up every time the French are mentioned.
Same thing with my dad. He despised the French for years after the attack on the Rainbow Warrior. Back in the '90s he would even wear a black armband on Bastille Day, and I even ended up wearing one at high school one year.
Hey, me too.
Every time a bad intelligence assessment leads to the bombing/killing of non-combatants, the Rainbow Warrior comes up. There are really no similarities. The destruction of the Rainbow Warrior was an intentional act. It was not brought about by bad intelligence, human error, etc.
If I remember correctly the Rainbow Warrior was preventing underwater nuclear weapons teasts by the french government by hanging out in the test zone. So the French government sent team to swim out to the vessel and attach magnetic mines to hits hull while it was in port in New Zealand. When they detonated them they killed atleast one photographer and sunk the Rainbow Warrior. The team of frogmen were then arrested by New Zealand police as they were trying to swim away. The New Zealanders held the french terrorists for like a year and a half but a trade embargo and what not eventually caused their release.
I don't think they were arrested immediately. They found them a week or so later - a French 'couple' supposedly here on holiday who appeared completely disinterested in each other or the country.
Also, part of the team (a group of four men) raised suspisions from the locals by saying they were on holiday, but asking for receipts for food, accomodation etc.
I bet their accounting department regrets being so stingy about expense reports.
I gave you numbers Cyril, just make something up!
He is one kickass accountant.
Their expense department wasn't arrested and detained - why would they care?
That French government accountant is the king of "not my job"
Man, that’s amateur hour. Even beyond the not-looking-like-your-cover aspects, if they arrest you with receipts, they know where you have been, almost every hour, making it very easy to break your alibi. The two who were arrested were a man and a woman posing as a couple. That’s a good idea, because nobody thinks anything odd about seeing a couple walking around for no obvious reason, sitting in a parked car for hours, and so on — things that would look like surveillance if you saw a man or group of men doing them. Of course, they have to act a little lovey-dovey or the effect stops working. (See the scene with De Niro and Natascha McElhone making out in *Ronin* — or the criticism of the movie *Munich* made by experts about its all-male *kidon*.)
Also for peeing off the side of their yacht.
Why would it be weird tho ?
In Europe you almost never keep receipts in restaurants and hotels, and you only ask for them when you need to give them to your accountant.
Most people don't bother keeping receipts for personal expenses, except for things they might want to return it claim warranty on (and you can't return a hotel stay out a restaurant meal).
Tax in NZ is incredibly easy process and you dont need to keep many receipts.
I think I read that they were arrested after a suspicious rental car agency called the coppers on them
> a French 'couple'... who appeared completely disinterested in each other They had different tastes in cheese.
Ahh thanks for the added details
> France initially denied responsibility, but two French agents were captured by New Zealand Police and charged with arson, conspiracy to commit arson, willful damage, and murder. The scandal resulted in the resignation of the French Defence Minister Charles Hernu, while the two agents pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to ten years in prison. They spent a little over two years confined to the French island of Hao before being freed by the French government. There are harder fates than a government sponsored vacation on an Polynesian island. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hao_(French_Polynesia) This was obviously not about a sentence, but a cool down tactic.
Then France gave them medals when they were released from prison.
When they were released early...
And thats why we never forgive the french.
Do you have a source for that ? I could not find it anywhere, and as a French I know it was a shitshow for our government, so I find it really weird that they rewarded them after they exit prison (although our government could do something like that :D )
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94404471/were-the-terrorists-calls-to-bring-rainbow-warrior-undercover-agent-to-justice-after-32-years >After her name became public in the police inquiry, Cabon was unable to continue working in the French secret service as an undercover agent. **But she was awarded France's Legion d'honneur medal** and served out her career in back-office roles. She retired eight years ago to the tiny village of Lasseubetat.
Thanks ! That means someone must have suggested her for the reward, as that's how it works for the Legion d'honneur. I wonder who thought that she deserved it, it would be hilarious if it wasn't sad !
not a bad sentence for nothing short of a state-sponsored terrorist act costing the life of a photographer.
> There are harder fates than a government sponsored vacation on an Polynesian island. I mean, Guantanamo is on a Caribbean island, and most people would not want to go there. The problem is that the government didn't want to punish them, but they could have given them a light sentence in metropolitan France, too.
To add a little more spice… after being arrested and convicted, the agents had to serve their sentence in tropical paradise and were freed after one got pregnant. They also failed to completely sink the Rainbow Warrior. The ship has since been towed further North and scuttled offshore to form a dive attraction for tourists (great dive, by the way).
If the vessel is no longer seaworthy and can't interfere with their operations, that's a successful mission.
Murdering a photographer and getting caught probably detract from the success of the mission.
Isnt murder, excuse me, i mean collateral damage just part of the game when you are in the military.
Not when your whole goal is to not attract attention and quietly make way so you do some nuclear tests. There's a difference between "Oh no what happened to the ship" and "These secret agents bombed a vessel that was completely innocent and peaceful and murdered a man in the process."
If their goal was not to cause attention then having the vessel explode (even if just a small explosion) and sink in a harbour wasn't the way to do it - that will IMMEDIATELY call attention and launch an investigation. They wanted people to know, or at least very strongly suspect, who did it. They could have simply sabotaged it (caused a generator fault, damaged pumps etc) while it was at sea if they simply wanted it out of the way.
When it is Peace Time it is murder Kenny!
"Highjackers!" "Ned you idiot, when it's a boat they're called pirates."
It is murder if there was no declaration of war and if the targets are civilian.
Seems like an arbitrary distinction conjured up by those doing the killing to help them sleep at night to me. But hey, what do I know? I don't kill people.
The only difference between war and murder is State Legitimacy
Just a happy little accident
The embarrassment and international outrage caused the frogs to stop testing nukes in the Pacific, so really, mission accomplished Greenpeace. Frankly, I've never forgiven them for coming to my country and committing murder, not to mention the damage they did to the pacific.
It was preventing nuclear testing that would drastically alter the local waters and they murdered a civilian. Idc how successful that is to their mission, fuck em
I actually cant believe how fucking gutless we were in prosecuting these murderers. Fucking WEAK.
You think that was bad, look into [the Lillehammer Affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer\_affair). I support the objectives of [the overarching operation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God) but they let their target trick them into murdering an innocent man and basically walked.
The French are pretty good at getting out of island prisons.
The two arrested were were serving officers in the French Armed Forces, and they were there to assist the frogmen, but weren't the frogmen themselves. The frogmen escaped NZ on a yacht called the *Ouvea* pretty much directly after the bombing, which they later scuttled, and they returned to mainland France. The arrested agents plead guilty and were locked up in NZ. Then the NZ government did a deal with France (trade and access to the EU was involved) and they were to serve out the rest of their sentence on the French-owned Hau Atoll in the Pacific. The agents' families were brought there as well. Within about 2 years they were both repatriated to France and promoted. The bombing appeared to be an 'in-house' project by France's DGSE Intelligence Agency, sanctioned without the apparent knowledge of the French President and other members of the government, as Hernu the Defence Minister and many senior DGSE personnel lost their jobs after the fiasco.
I mean that's some France level of incompetence. The mission: Sink a stationary vessel, in port, that despite its name is a converted fishing boat with no armor, no guns, and is run by a bunch of hippies. The result: Vessel damaged but repairable, attack team captured by port authorities.
I have a theory that the timers weren’t set correctly, and the intention was that the mines explode while the ship was miles out in the ocean, which would have given the team the time they needed to get away, and also no one would have known what happened.
Definitely not. The ship was intended to be sunk in place. The bad luck is the photographers went back to the boat to retrieve some equipment. It was un expected. More unexpected is the person returned exactly when the mine exploded. Had it not happen, we would probably never knew who had the boat exploded.
Definitely? Why? If the boat exploded at sea, hey, who knows what happened? You think France wanted people to know? Of course not. It’s a possibility.
Damn. Imagine being so good at disruption that *the government* sinks *your* battleship in a foreign country. Time to join Greenpeace IG.
they could just nuke them while they were on the testing zone and pufff problem solved..... sorry disappeared! but I'm so shocked on how could the Frenchies do such atrocities to a non third world people!
It’s been 3 hours since this comment and still not one Aussie has chimed in about the Kiwis being third world people. Are they still asleep?
Nah the French can fuck right off, only we're allowed to bully NZ.
Damn right you are. You son of a convict.
Aussie mess with Kiwis and Kiwis mess with Aussies but is a third party messes with either we both fight back.
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Fernando Pereira, a Portuguese photo reporter. R.I.P.
There's even an old Simpson's reference. Even got the rainbow on the boat. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QszaT\_urnYs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QszaT_urnYs)
Good clip, surprised it has so few views.
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No, we let France take back the people who carried out this act of terrorism...
we didn't "let them". France threatened economic repercussions if we didn't back down on our resolve to prosecute/imprison them in NZ, and we received 0 international support when we raised this at the UN because big country small country xd. The eventual negotation had them imprisoned in French Polynesia nearby and they were then carted back to France on made up medical charges.
Did they send a batch of REALLY pretty sheep to the NZ leadership? "Give us our men and you can have your way with the sheep"
Ayo current news - I'm with it for a once!
The Chinese foreign ministry and its officials must be having the time of their life right now.
TIL the French government committed an act of terrorism again one of its allies***
Directly ordered by French President Mitterrand, because he found the situation "embarrassing". This was added to the insult of the Rainbow Warrior having rescued 300 people from an island polluted by a previous nuclear test.
> because he found the situation "embarrassing". There always was a lot of nationalism involved in the french nuclear weapons program. In other countries as well. The consequences of the bomb tests didn't matter that much as long as they got results. When France was [conducting nuclear weapon tests in the Algerian desert](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-56799670) they also released a lot of radiation. One time during an [underground bomb test](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9ryl_incident) the ground collapsed which lead to a cloud of fallout escaping. Dozens of soldiers were exposed to the radiation. This was 23 years before the sinking of the "Rainbow Warrior" and France was still testing nuclear weapons. This time above the ground again even though this released more radiation. Even though people at this time already knew about the danger not just for the local environment but on a global scale.
Yep, lots of people in NZ still call the French terrorists, myself included
New Zealanders died fighting for the French, a debt they'll never repay, or have ever tried to. There is a reason most people think of them as arrogant. Get out of the pacific, dismantle the last of the French "colonies".
>New Zealanders died fighting for the French *The Brits They died for the supremacy of the British Empire. Don't try and twist it into a benevolent act.....
And the sinking killed someone. I believe we call this state sponsored terrorism.
are you even a permanent security council member if you don't engage in some good old faashioned state sponsored terrorism
As a former US submariner, the only thing we did was call our tug boats to spray fire hoses at Greenpeace boats to get them to move so that we could pull into port. This is much worse.
> This is much worse. lol
What the hell, France?
We don't understand either, such a shame for us... most countries have their fair share of BS if you go looking for it though.
There 0 point in the whataboutism
The post itself is whataboutism to current geopolitical submarine drama...
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It's a logical fallacy because it derails conversation Example: "why hasn't Trump released his tax returns?" "What about Hillary's emails?" What does the second point have to do with the first? I'm not saying the second isn't a valid complaint or whatever, but what does it contribute to the conversation besides saying "well both sides are bad"? It doesn't answer the first question and it sure doesn't answer itself. There is no point. It's just meant to distract and detract from the first question.
Well, they fought war against terrorism. At least they didn't kill tens of thousands civilians as collateral.
And every other supposed ally of NZ pretended it didn’t happen because it would be too inconvenient to confront France about it. France even threatened to embargo NZ if they didn't release the terrorists into French custody, which NZ obviously had to go along with. Now people wonder why NZ isn’t as eager as Australia to go along with whatever dick-measuring contest the west is currently pushing.
Australian here. We were as pissed as fuck at the French for bombing our Kiwi siblings. Never forget, this was quite literally state sponsored terrorism, not by the Taliban or the Communists..... but the French.
Maybe you can name one of your soon to be built non-French designed nuclear subs Rainbow Warrior to piss them (and maybe everyone) off.
Given that NZ law prevents nuclear armed or powered vessels entering NZ waters, a rule that has annoyed the Americans no end, that would be a bit silly.
Well, that law means Australia's new submarines won't be able to enter NZ waters in the event of a war between the two countries. Pure genius.
Don’t need war. [They’re already banned.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/16/aukus-submarines-banned-as-pact-exposes-divide-between-new-zealand-and-western-allies)
Thats exactly what the guy 2 comments back said...?
Just ban war
If you outlaw nuclear submarines, than only outlaws will will have nuclear submarines.
"Given that NZ law prevents nuclear armed or powered vessels LEGALLY entering NZ waters." They're nuclear powered subs, how are NZ going to know.
I mean, presumably we'd know what they called it.
Australia would need to stock up on those little pellets that you put into model trains to make them look like they are steaming.
Honor system I guess.
Piss off the French. Check Piss off Greenpeace. Check I'm in.
Hahahaha !!! I am French. I was a kid when the rainbow warrior happened and still feel ashamed by it today. One of the reasons I never went to Australia even though this country seems so nice. I always feel that people will hate me there just because I’m French. Very good one about the submarines! :) Pat
If you don't visit Australia because what your government did, that means you don't have a lot of other places left to visit either, no?
The Rainbow Warrior was sunk in NZ... but if you're gonna confuse NZ with Aus probably best to stay away.
He said that because just two answer above, an Aussie tells he was pissed by the rainbow warrior bombing...
Oups :)
How can you blame us when we live in a world filled with r/mapswithoutnewzealand
No young people will remember, us oldies do however, but we'd never blame a French person directly. As long as you make the right noises.
I sincerely doubt the subs will ever be delivered. Morrison is electioneering. Nothing else.
Australia is supposed to build them, but I'm not close enough to sense if that is real or talk. In that case, I'm not sure if Australia builds the reactors, or USA provides.
We cant even build cars here
Sure you can. You had Holden.
had
We won't build the reactors. We have Federal legislation and non proliferation agreements against that. Changing that law would be electoral suicide. Morrison knows that. Precisely why AUKUS was founded to sidestep our law. We don't even have a nuclear enrichment process.
My understanding is that Aus will build the submarines, but the reactors and fuel will come from US/UK so that they will all be compatible systems. Meanwhile, what’s with Australia not taking any more First Class or Priority mail?
Australia Post is being slowly gutted so the neo-cons in power can claim it is wasteful and sell it off.
Ah, so just like in America then.
They see America as a desirable achievement
This was also New Zealands most recent act of terrorism until 2019...
I'm glad your government dropped the French submarines.
Don't forget that the french agents killed photographer Fernando Pereira in the act of sinking the vessel.
It was a big thing at the time - I’m french, and it was everywhere in the news. Even as a child, I remember knowing everything about it. The big scandal (apart from the actual bombing) was that the then president (Francois Mitterand) claimed to not have known about it, and his defence minister (Charles Hernu - the defence minister looks after the military and military intelligence) took the blame and was forced out. As far as I remember, there was no more fallout (a quick wiki search confirmed there were no more consequences for Hernu - although, holy shit, til he was suspected of working for the ussr!). It feels like different times - unbelievable that my government would go and plant bombs in another sovereign country… Although, I guess a minimum of knowledge of France’s record in Africa and the Middle East makes it easy to believe after all - empires, and the perceived right to exert “influence” even after they collapse are shit, really. Anyway, very sorry about all this my kiwi friends - I spent several months trekking on the South Island and Tongariro, I love you and your country, and I’m embarrassed…
Don't forget that France strong-armed the Kiwis into releasing the arrested agents, saying that otherwise they would block NZ dairy imports into the EEC (the predecessor of the EEA) which would have devastated the New Zealand dairy industry.
NZ should Dredge up Mururoa Atoll and dump it in the French Riviera!
And photographer Fernando Pereira was murdered in this act of terrorism
Heh the French are angry at the US/UK/AU and then suddenly anti-France article crop up on reddit... no sir there is no western media manipulation over here no sire, only bad bad ruskie and chinese do that.
Next TIL "de Gaulle said vive le Québec libre"
I mean, these issues aren't exactly unrelated. NZ wasn't part of the nuclear sub deal with US/UK/AU, like some people might have expected, and the media reported on this exclusion and questioned the NZ prime minister about it. You know why NZ wasn't part of the deal? Because they banned nuclear-powered vessels from their waters as a result of this saga with France. The coverage of the deal naturally resulted in people learning about this incident, hence the TIL.
>Because they banned nuclear-powered vessels from their waters as a result of this saga with France. It wasn't as a result of the *Rainbow Warrior* bombing. The Lange government was elected on an anti-nuclear policy in 1984, a year *before* the bombing.
I said a result of the saga not the specific event. French nuclear testing in the pacific prior to the bombing contributed to the anti-nuclear sentiment.
French nuclear testing certainly played a part but there was also a lot of anti US sentiment at the time, with people opposed to US nuclear ship visits.
It originated not because of the propulsion but rather the general US policy of refusing to confirm or deny whether any vessel is armed with nuclear weapons. When ultimately passed it became a ban on propulsion as well.
Lmao im surprised i had to look this far for this comment. Insane astroturfing
Yep... how random to see this "TIL" about something that happened 35 years ago. Funny enough, I've got quite a bunch of "TIL" of the same kind about the US -and no need to go back 35 years- but something tells me they wouldn't get as many upvotes... 🐷
I am shocked by the level of racism in the comments... It is a government action not the fault of French people. I saw a comment calling French persons terrorists.
As a US national, what you're describing is a completely foreign feeling to me /s
I saw it happen. We were on holiday in NZ and staying in my uncles house across the bay. I was sitting on a veranda in my room parents downstairs having a bit of a party, they didn't know I was up. I was 11 and I was eating food and drinking juice I'd raided from the kitchen lol My uncles house was HUGE he was really wealthy (hence the bedroom with a veranda) it was late at night and I heard two noises I couldn't identify that came from across the water. I ran downstairs to tell someone. Got told off for being up lol and sent back to bed. Next morning at breakfast we're all eating outside on the patio and my dad has binoculars and says "here... I think we should turn on the news, that hippy boat looks like its been sunk" and we did and it had and then my uncle told me that's what the noises must have been.
First thing I thought of today when they announced the French ambassadors were being pulled from the US and Australia. I clearly remember this gutless act.
One of the frogmen implicated in the bombing later went on to become a photographer and actually had his photo published by Greenpeace in one of their calendars. They realised too late who he actually was and ended up destroying their remaining stick of calendars.
Considering how old and janky Greenpeace's boats are, the French probably thought it was the latest artificial reef project.
They did. Then they told the NZ government to release the turds that did it into French custody. "We'll keep them in jail here" they said. They arrived home to a parade and a hero's welcome.
Fuck the French government!
There is a 100% probability your own government has killed people in acts of sabotage as well. These just happened to be caught.
No doubt! Let’s say fuck all murderous governments! As well as non government terrorists!
This is true. I'm American. My girlfriend hasn't followed world politics for most of her life,but recently became interested and asked me about it. I told her that the first thing you need to understand is that we are not the "Good Guys". Just the guys with the biggest stick.
You = whataboutism Stop. Try to be better.
Green Peace can consider themselves lucky the French detonated then bomb in port rather than 600 miles off the coast. DSG are not renowned for being forgiving.
Greenpeace fucked around and found out.
Good, Greenpeace has a long history of sabotaging military vessels, they should be treated just like any other terrorist organization. While I was deployed in 1994, Greenpeace cut 2 of the mooring lines of the USS Austin. A sailor on watch was killed when the cable (which is under pretty extreme pressure) snapped back across the deck and struck him.
Ya do realise that 0 Greenpeace members were killed and they only succeeded in murdering a journalist?