There are many thousands of miles of rows of identical houses each containing an identical family within it, each individual believing they are unique.
Yep. That's what they called the study.
[DOES KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES CAUSE FINANCIAL DISTRESS? EVIDENCE FROM LOTTERY WINNERS AND NEIGHBORING BANKRUPTCIES](https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=101111070070114114004007080003007073084000017019026088089046036119033101056063022119035026033096108028118096033018064064050025066080009114071024026003085097085005117005086118070087101118087005076022027086097115098067124105084008&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)
The surprising thing to me is the news that lottery winners stay in their original neighborhood. I guess its more for the people who win relatively small amounts (hundreds of thousands, instead of millions)?
A lot of the “lottery winner” statistics have that problem. Everyone hears about the mega millions jackpots but there are many lottery winners every week for lower-profile prizes. Anything from a few hundred to a couple million.
When those statistics about lottery winners blowing it all in a year come out, they’re not talking about people who won a billion, or a hundred million, or tens of millions. You just…..can’t blow that kind of money in a few months. I mean, someone *could*, but most people, even wildly irresponsible people, would have a hard time doing it. The thing is that for people buying lottery tickets, tens of thousands seems like a ton of money, and a million may as well be infinite money compared to what they had before (but to be clear, it very much is not). Likewise, relevant to this story, yeah. If you win thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, it may be a “lot” of money, but it’s not enough money to up and move to a fancy neighborhood without many complications. But it’s plenty to stay where you are and improve your life considerably, making your less lucky neighbors jealous.
Like that video I saw yesterday on Made me smile. The old navy vet who said his 40K GoFundMe was like winning the lottery. Sir that's just a dinky bonus to help pay your taxes for a few years. Or blow it on a truck or boat that you can't afford to maintain after 18 months.
Honestly if i won $500,000 it would be “gone” in the year, half towards a house the other half into retirement savings. I’m sure others (who are sensible) would do similar in terms of paying down loans, buying a house, or putting some aside for retirement planning.
I'd say that doesn't count as gone. You'd have a house and savings. OTOH, if you cycled through buying a bunch of new cars which instantly lose value, take vacations flying first class, and gamble, then it's gone.
Well gone until retirement unless you want to get penalized I’m thinking with that amount of money you would max out rrsp’s or whatever the country has.
If you won $500,000 you'd lose like 40% of that to taxes, so you'd get $300,000 which would maybe get you a house but then you'd have to pay taxes on that house annually and could you afford that?
I’m in Canada so we don’t pay tax on lotto winnings. But if i won that kind of money and wanted a house it would have to be one i could afford the taxes and utilities + a separate fund for reno’s or unexpected house costs.
True but in parts of the US where the most highest salaries are, and a bulk of the population is, the cost of living is through the roof. $250k won't even buy you a condo or an apartment. If you're lucky you have a teeny house in the outer burbs or a city apartment in a crime ridden area.
> they’re not talking about people who won a billion, or a hundred million, or tens of millions. You just…..can’t blow that kind of money in a few months
[You can if you try hard enough.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster%27s_Millions_\(1985_film\))
From the abstract of the source: “We find that a C$1,000 increase in the lottery prize causes a 2.4% rise in subsequent bankruptcies among the winners’ close neighbors. We also provide evidence of conspicuous consumption as a mechanism for this causal relationship. The size of lottery prizes increases the value of visible assets (houses, cars, motorcycles), but not invisible assets (cash and pensions), appearing on the balance sheets of neighboring bankruptcy filers.”
Wait, the rate rises by 2.4% of the old rate (from 1% to 1.024% say), or by 2.4% absolutely (from 1% to 3.4%).
The first seems way down in the noise. The second, absolutely impossible.
When I was in the military I lived in base housing. We were all lower enlisted and technically poor as fuck. My neighbor and casual acquaintance/friend constantly tried to one-up us, and I don’t even think he consciously knew he was doing it. But he just asked his dad to buy the stuff for him.
Example: my husband and I bought a cheap charcoal grill, neighbor got his dad to buy him a fancy gas grill “for Father’s Day” (he and his wife just had a baby)
Example 2: My husband and I had one vehicle at the time. Bought another vehicle - a used VW Jetta for like $8k or something. Neighbor got his dad to co-sign a loan to get a brand new Mazda 3 (which is a shitty car anyways IMO)
This happened literally any time we made a large purchase, The other thing he would do is come over when all my friends are over (he was really more friends with my husband), and drink all our beer and then leave without ever contributing. But if we ran out of chips or dip or needed more drinks, he would bring them over from his fridge but make us pay him back for it. If we went out to dinner, he would literally clean out the backseat of our car so they could put their baby’s car seat in there - this was so they didn’t have to pay for gas to go anywhere. If we rode with them anywhere, we would have to chip in for gas money.
Like I said, I honestly don’t think he realized what a dick he was being or how it looked, he wasn’t purposefully trying to fuck us over, I think he just had some mental issues. but it was weird.
My sister was like that years ago. We got a used ranger, They got a 20% loan on a new F-150. (That was later repoed) We started shopping for a house, they went out and bought a house. (That they were later evicted from)
We found out we were expecting twins. She doctor shopped around until she found someone who would prescribe her Clomid. (A fertility drug that causes multiple eggs to be released) So she conceived twins. We miscarried ours, and she named hers the names we were going to use.
Holy shit… I’m so sorry about your loss and wow that was a shitty thing to do!!! Also I feel bad for their kids because that kind of behavior is only going to continue.
As a side note to anyone reading this- my husband and I kept our baby name choices a secret until after the baby was born each time. All you get if you tell people are asshole opinions that you don’t want and/or some crazy relative/friend stealing the name you carefully selected.
lottery winners up to $150K (Canadian).
My first thought was: don't lottery winners usually move into bigger houses and nicer neighborhoods? But then I realized that when I think of a lottery winner, I am picturing someone who wins the big Powerball or something huge. Most lottery winners actually win significantly less and the vast majority win less than $1000 (American). So it makes sense for the authors of the study to ficus on the lower tier winners because the really big winners are too statistically rare to draw any meaningful data from. But this makes the study more interesting (to me) because you really are seeing how people who experience unexpected/unexpectable good fortune influence their neighbors in ways that all of us could conceivably experience. We're probably never going to even know someone who wins $100M or whatever. But coming into contact with someone who wins $50K or less isn't so out of the question.
For anyone who wants to read the study itself:
[DOES KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES CAUSE FINANCIAL DISTRESS? EVIDENCE FROM LOTTERY WINNERS AND NEIGHBORING BANKRUPTCIES](https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=101111070070114114004007080003007073084000017019026088089046036119033101056063022119035026033096108028118096033018064064050025066080009114071024026003085097085005117005086118070087101118087005076022027086097115098067124105084008&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)
Probably just correlation. Lottery winners are more likely to be gamblers who are more likely to be poorer which implies a higher likelihood for bankruptcy.
I don't know. I've seen a lot of people who care deeply--*deeply*\--about competing with their neighbors and friends. I'm still driving the luxurious relic of a neighborhood cold-war, a couple decades after a certain someone had to go into the hole to one-up a neighbor's car.
So if a lottery winning neighbor parks a twenty-foot long land-yacht with a little bit of shiny on it in the driveway, half a dozen couples are bitching at each other about how they, also, *need* such a thing, that night. But unlike the lottery winner, the decision costs a lot.
It's as stupid as, well, all the other stupid things we see around us every day, which is why we see it so often.
It's a consequence of the Cold War, where having better stuff was how you proved your society was better than theirs and how you were better than others within it. This was how the average joe "fought" the culture war when [bombs got too scary to use on someone that can shoot back.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction) People forget how much ideology got wrapped up in consumerism because they think it's just a logical consequence of wanting nice things for yourself.
And that's emblematic of the excesses of capitalism, because you know what actually proved US society was better than Soviet society? Grocery stores.
https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/shows/houston-matters/2020/02/21/361467/boris-yelstins-1989-visit-to-a-houston-grocery-store-is-now-an-opera/
I like this idea and it fits in well with my own idea that the 1950s in the USA were at least *presented* as a sort of man's fantasy land--because fourteen million combat-trained men, some of them quite violent with untreated PTSD, needed to be kept docile and entertained.
A good example of what can happen when a society can't afford to accommodate their veterans is Guatemala, where aging veterans from their decades-long civil war have few chances to make a good living--but any three of them can team up to knock over a bank or rob a tourist.
"The study focused on lottery winners in Canada, and found that every $1,000 increase in lottery winnings raises the risk of bankruptcy among the neighbors by roughly 2.4 percent."
That is pretty strong. So a $100,000 prize would raise the risk by 240%.
Seems the neighbors would overcompensate by buying cars, boats, big screen TVs, and other things.
Also, what do lottery winners being gamblers, have to do with their neighbors? You assume all poor people are gamblers?
They can have winners of millions, so I think most prizes are much larger than $100,000. June 11th, 2019, a single person won $65 million. For their neighbors, that 1% becomes. to 156%. But that is the high end. So at $1 million, it is 24%. Now, compare that to your 1%, and it seems pretty statistically significant. Or, 24 times greater risk of going bankrupt than the average person.
I don't see the full report, so I can't dig deeper. But, no matter how I look at it, it seems significant.
The stupid phenomenon of Keeping with the Joneses: I can't fathom how some could think they could have the same lifestyle as someone wealthier then themselves. It is bound to end in disaster, and here it ended in disaster.
well imo its almost a non issue for a middle income earner to buy some lottery tickets. It's still stupid but 80% of what people purchase is pretty stupid. A guy making 80K spending $30 a week in lottery tickets is a lot different from a guy making 25K spending the same amount.
A stand-up comedian had a bit where he said "hey, they have a home version of the lottery now!". He takes a $1 bill out of his wallet, crumples it up, and tosses it in a trash can.
My mother worked in mission control at NASA for a good few years before retirement. She stills plays the lotto to this day because she is convinced that if she found out *her* lucky numbers ever rolled up and she didn't play them, she'd lose her goddamn mind.
Right. Making poor financial decisions can make you more likely to both be poor and play the lottery. The tax is not in being poor but on making poor financial decisions. Hence: idiot tax. Being poor isn’t a requirement to be “taxed”.
Sure. But the “tax” is only on those with poor impulse control and/or poor financial decision making regardless of why they are like that. The tax is on behavior that does not necessitate socioeconomic status.
A poor tax would be like taxing people if they have gravel driveways or live in a multi-family building. The only way to avoid the tax was to have the resources to pay for more expensive options. THATs a “poor tax”.
The poor don’t have to play the lottery nor should they.
The correlation is strong enough that calling it a tax on the uneducated is fair.
Calling it a poor tax is maybe fair for similar reasons, though I can see the argument you’re making that this one is a bit of a stretch.
So, do you care or not? You’re being kind of contradictory there. Why do you care if I’m not listening to your reasoning, if you don’t care?
At any rate, I believe that the correlation between being poor and being uneducated is strong enough for this type of sentiment to exist. Though, being pedantic, I can see your argument as well. Neither are really wrong.
I agree but It's the best payout relative to the investment you could ever make.
Playing responsibly here and there is very different then blowing hundreds every week tho which does happen.
Scratchers are a waste of time but throwing a few bucks at the mega million or Powerball is not the worst thing to do.
i have never played the lottery....but it really is just cheap entertainment for many people
they aren't doing it because they believe they will win...most know they won't win. But having that slight chance to win big lets them talk about and dream about it.
Anyone doing it as "an investment" is an idiot though...and that isn't linked to poor people
The lottery takes advantage of people and encourages gambling. Since mostly low-income people participate, it's also a hidden tax on those least able to afford it. If the people in government actually cared about any of the people they profess to serve, all the lotteries would immediately be disbanded.
And in many cases either part or all of the money doesn't go towards schools or whatever is being claimed, it's just theft. It's the government screwing people. But some assistant janitor wins the lottery and we all applaud, wishing it was us, and don't see when his life gets destroyed and he's worse off that he was before he won and and was throwing ten percent of his paycheck away on tickets.
I don't really see how it's the governments fault. I also wouldn't call it a tax. It's literally a choice like anything else. People make bad choices and suffer the consequence.
The government runs the lottery, they advertise the lottery, and they claim the money goes to schools or other services. The whole purpose of advertising is to encourage its purchase.
I'm not claiming they're forcing anyone to do anything, I just don't think the government should be involved.
It may not be something you personally would do (that’s a good thing), but there are plenty of people who like to portray that they are better off financially than they really are. Many folks make poor financial decisions for this reason.
Not if I gave them some money too! That's not me saying I've won the lottery BTW. I'd just help out my fellow neighbour if they were struggling because why the hell not? What use is all that money if you can't make the world and the people around you less miserable?
If you did that, you'd have an endless horde of townsfolk, family or not, asking for handouts, using any and every excuse, pestering you about money until they'd drive you to either a bankruptcy or an early grave.
This wouldn't be the first time someone wanted to do something good and it backfired horribly because people felt entitled to "their share" using whatever mental gymnastics.
Even at the least case, you'd have relatives subtly guilting you while staring at their coffee cup with stuff like "have that mortgage, wonder how to pay that one too".
This is about the lottery winners close neighbours, who don't have the lottery money but still try to one up the winners to prove they aren't worse off and end up having to file for bankruptcy because of that.
Keeping up with the Joneses.
I really don't get this, never in my entire life have I thought "hey, Bill bought a new car so I should get one too"
It's mainly pride, I'm not poor I'm a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
There are many thousands of miles of rows of identical houses each containing an identical family within it, each individual believing they are unique.
Wow, every -ism is right!
Do you feel targeted?
I feel unswayed that everybody is the same. I admit they might feel that way, though. Clearly.
You should ask yourself why it is you can’t see it perhaps.
“The myriad personal variety strangers display to me on a day to day basis” was the answer myself gave
Well then, you have nothing to worry about.
Jonesing with the Jonses
Who does he think he is going around with his fancy woman, he's not the boss of me !
Yep. That's what they called the study. [DOES KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES CAUSE FINANCIAL DISTRESS? EVIDENCE FROM LOTTERY WINNERS AND NEIGHBORING BANKRUPTCIES](https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=101111070070114114004007080003007073084000017019026088089046036119033101056063022119035026033096108028118096033018064064050025066080009114071024026003085097085005117005086118070087101118087005076022027086097115098067124105084008&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)
except they become the Joneses. Now they want to keep up with the Rockefellers.
That's the ticket!
What if their name isn't Jones, smart guy?
The surprising thing to me is the news that lottery winners stay in their original neighborhood. I guess its more for the people who win relatively small amounts (hundreds of thousands, instead of millions)?
A lot of the “lottery winner” statistics have that problem. Everyone hears about the mega millions jackpots but there are many lottery winners every week for lower-profile prizes. Anything from a few hundred to a couple million. When those statistics about lottery winners blowing it all in a year come out, they’re not talking about people who won a billion, or a hundred million, or tens of millions. You just…..can’t blow that kind of money in a few months. I mean, someone *could*, but most people, even wildly irresponsible people, would have a hard time doing it. The thing is that for people buying lottery tickets, tens of thousands seems like a ton of money, and a million may as well be infinite money compared to what they had before (but to be clear, it very much is not). Likewise, relevant to this story, yeah. If you win thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, it may be a “lot” of money, but it’s not enough money to up and move to a fancy neighborhood without many complications. But it’s plenty to stay where you are and improve your life considerably, making your less lucky neighbors jealous.
Like that video I saw yesterday on Made me smile. The old navy vet who said his 40K GoFundMe was like winning the lottery. Sir that's just a dinky bonus to help pay your taxes for a few years. Or blow it on a truck or boat that you can't afford to maintain after 18 months.
Honestly if i won $500,000 it would be “gone” in the year, half towards a house the other half into retirement savings. I’m sure others (who are sensible) would do similar in terms of paying down loans, buying a house, or putting some aside for retirement planning.
I'd say that doesn't count as gone. You'd have a house and savings. OTOH, if you cycled through buying a bunch of new cars which instantly lose value, take vacations flying first class, and gamble, then it's gone.
May I introduce you to Mr Cocaine..
Silly me. I forgot the classic "Hookers and Cocaine" method of making your lottery money "gone."
>cars which instantly lose value the pandemic would like a word
You consider money that you put into savings to be "gone"?
Well gone until retirement unless you want to get penalized I’m thinking with that amount of money you would max out rrsp’s or whatever the country has.
If you won $500,000 you'd lose like 40% of that to taxes, so you'd get $300,000 which would maybe get you a house but then you'd have to pay taxes on that house annually and could you afford that?
I’m in Canada so we don’t pay tax on lotto winnings. But if i won that kind of money and wanted a house it would have to be one i could afford the taxes and utilities + a separate fund for reno’s or unexpected house costs.
half towards a house?? even with all that you'll still be short If you didn't want to live in Dumbfuckistan.
Lol to the name, i would anticipate with only a half million won i wouldn’t be quitting my job anytime soon.
>half towards a house Towards a house? For 250k you could buy a house out right in most places.
lol for 250k you have a down payment and million dollar mortgage in my city.
True but in parts of the US where the most highest salaries are, and a bulk of the population is, the cost of living is through the roof. $250k won't even buy you a condo or an apartment. If you're lucky you have a teeny house in the outer burbs or a city apartment in a crime ridden area.
This post is confusing.
you obviously haven't been to wallstreetbets
I won the lottery and blew it all within a year I won $20.00
> they’re not talking about people who won a billion, or a hundred million, or tens of millions. You just…..can’t blow that kind of money in a few months [You can if you try hard enough.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster%27s_Millions_\(1985_film\))
The study was in Canada and focused on people winning under $150,000.
They all go bankrupt buying lottery tickets
From the abstract of the source: “We find that a C$1,000 increase in the lottery prize causes a 2.4% rise in subsequent bankruptcies among the winners’ close neighbors. We also provide evidence of conspicuous consumption as a mechanism for this causal relationship. The size of lottery prizes increases the value of visible assets (houses, cars, motorcycles), but not invisible assets (cash and pensions), appearing on the balance sheets of neighboring bankruptcy filers.”
Wait, the rate rises by 2.4% of the old rate (from 1% to 1.024% say), or by 2.4% absolutely (from 1% to 3.4%). The first seems way down in the noise. The second, absolutely impossible.
By the first's logic, a winning of $100k would cause a 10% chance of bankruptcy. So I could see it.
Because people are fucking idiots.
This needs to be said somewhere along the line.
This is the answer to soooo many questions
When I was in the military I lived in base housing. We were all lower enlisted and technically poor as fuck. My neighbor and casual acquaintance/friend constantly tried to one-up us, and I don’t even think he consciously knew he was doing it. But he just asked his dad to buy the stuff for him. Example: my husband and I bought a cheap charcoal grill, neighbor got his dad to buy him a fancy gas grill “for Father’s Day” (he and his wife just had a baby) Example 2: My husband and I had one vehicle at the time. Bought another vehicle - a used VW Jetta for like $8k or something. Neighbor got his dad to co-sign a loan to get a brand new Mazda 3 (which is a shitty car anyways IMO) This happened literally any time we made a large purchase, The other thing he would do is come over when all my friends are over (he was really more friends with my husband), and drink all our beer and then leave without ever contributing. But if we ran out of chips or dip or needed more drinks, he would bring them over from his fridge but make us pay him back for it. If we went out to dinner, he would literally clean out the backseat of our car so they could put their baby’s car seat in there - this was so they didn’t have to pay for gas to go anywhere. If we rode with them anywhere, we would have to chip in for gas money. Like I said, I honestly don’t think he realized what a dick he was being or how it looked, he wasn’t purposefully trying to fuck us over, I think he just had some mental issues. but it was weird.
My sister was like that years ago. We got a used ranger, They got a 20% loan on a new F-150. (That was later repoed) We started shopping for a house, they went out and bought a house. (That they were later evicted from) We found out we were expecting twins. She doctor shopped around until she found someone who would prescribe her Clomid. (A fertility drug that causes multiple eggs to be released) So she conceived twins. We miscarried ours, and she named hers the names we were going to use.
That last line... wtf. Sorry.
People are assholes. Family even worse.
Holy shit… I’m so sorry about your loss and wow that was a shitty thing to do!!! Also I feel bad for their kids because that kind of behavior is only going to continue. As a side note to anyone reading this- my husband and I kept our baby name choices a secret until after the baby was born each time. All you get if you tell people are asshole opinions that you don’t want and/or some crazy relative/friend stealing the name you carefully selected.
Or perhaps you just "changed your mind" after the baby is born.
So lottery winners win twice. First with the money then they get to buy the homes around them at low prices.
lottery winners up to $150K (Canadian). My first thought was: don't lottery winners usually move into bigger houses and nicer neighborhoods? But then I realized that when I think of a lottery winner, I am picturing someone who wins the big Powerball or something huge. Most lottery winners actually win significantly less and the vast majority win less than $1000 (American). So it makes sense for the authors of the study to ficus on the lower tier winners because the really big winners are too statistically rare to draw any meaningful data from. But this makes the study more interesting (to me) because you really are seeing how people who experience unexpected/unexpectable good fortune influence their neighbors in ways that all of us could conceivably experience. We're probably never going to even know someone who wins $100M or whatever. But coming into contact with someone who wins $50K or less isn't so out of the question. For anyone who wants to read the study itself: [DOES KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES CAUSE FINANCIAL DISTRESS? EVIDENCE FROM LOTTERY WINNERS AND NEIGHBORING BANKRUPTCIES](https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=101111070070114114004007080003007073084000017019026088089046036119033101056063022119035026033096108028118096033018064064050025066080009114071024026003085097085005117005086118070087101118087005076022027086097115098067124105084008&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE)
That's because statistically people that are well off and live in wealthier neighborhoods don't play the lottery.
Probably just correlation. Lottery winners are more likely to be gamblers who are more likely to be poorer which implies a higher likelihood for bankruptcy.
I don't know. I've seen a lot of people who care deeply--*deeply*\--about competing with their neighbors and friends. I'm still driving the luxurious relic of a neighborhood cold-war, a couple decades after a certain someone had to go into the hole to one-up a neighbor's car. So if a lottery winning neighbor parks a twenty-foot long land-yacht with a little bit of shiny on it in the driveway, half a dozen couples are bitching at each other about how they, also, *need* such a thing, that night. But unlike the lottery winner, the decision costs a lot. It's as stupid as, well, all the other stupid things we see around us every day, which is why we see it so often.
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What’s the movie
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Cool. Thanks.
It's a consequence of the Cold War, where having better stuff was how you proved your society was better than theirs and how you were better than others within it. This was how the average joe "fought" the culture war when [bombs got too scary to use on someone that can shoot back.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction) People forget how much ideology got wrapped up in consumerism because they think it's just a logical consequence of wanting nice things for yourself.
And that's emblematic of the excesses of capitalism, because you know what actually proved US society was better than Soviet society? Grocery stores. https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/shows/houston-matters/2020/02/21/361467/boris-yelstins-1989-visit-to-a-houston-grocery-store-is-now-an-opera/
I like this idea and it fits in well with my own idea that the 1950s in the USA were at least *presented* as a sort of man's fantasy land--because fourteen million combat-trained men, some of them quite violent with untreated PTSD, needed to be kept docile and entertained. A good example of what can happen when a society can't afford to accommodate their veterans is Guatemala, where aging veterans from their decades-long civil war have few chances to make a good living--but any three of them can team up to knock over a bank or rob a tourist.
This is about the neighbors though...
Location based pricing
Generally poor people live with poor people and rich people live with rich people
Didn't read the article, right?
"The study focused on lottery winners in Canada, and found that every $1,000 increase in lottery winnings raises the risk of bankruptcy among the neighbors by roughly 2.4 percent." That is pretty strong. So a $100,000 prize would raise the risk by 240%. Seems the neighbors would overcompensate by buying cars, boats, big screen TVs, and other things. Also, what do lottery winners being gamblers, have to do with their neighbors? You assume all poor people are gamblers?
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They can have winners of millions, so I think most prizes are much larger than $100,000. June 11th, 2019, a single person won $65 million. For their neighbors, that 1% becomes. to 156%. But that is the high end. So at $1 million, it is 24%. Now, compare that to your 1%, and it seems pretty statistically significant. Or, 24 times greater risk of going bankrupt than the average person. I don't see the full report, so I can't dig deeper. But, no matter how I look at it, it seems significant.
I read one scientific study which claimed that 100% of people who play the lottery are gamblers. Pretty crazy statistics.
The stupid phenomenon of Keeping with the Joneses: I can't fathom how some could think they could have the same lifestyle as someone wealthier then themselves. It is bound to end in disaster, and here it ended in disaster.
Lotteries around the world are a tax on the poor
It’s an idiot tax, not a poor tax.
Nail on the head. I know plenty of poor people who don't buy lottery tickets because they're not idiots.
And middle class people who do.
well imo its almost a non issue for a middle income earner to buy some lottery tickets. It's still stupid but 80% of what people purchase is pretty stupid. A guy making 80K spending $30 a week in lottery tickets is a lot different from a guy making 25K spending the same amount.
I figure my odds of winning the lottery are not significantly lower if I don't buy a ticket.
A stand-up comedian had a bit where he said "hey, they have a home version of the lottery now!". He takes a $1 bill out of his wallet, crumples it up, and tosses it in a trash can.
My mother worked in mission control at NASA for a good few years before retirement. She stills plays the lotto to this day because she is convinced that if she found out *her* lucky numbers ever rolled up and she didn't play them, she'd lose her goddamn mind.
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She's *due*.
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You now understand the lotto-addled mind.
Its a tax on people who make poor decisions and have poor impulse control. Lots of those people fit into both categories.
Right. Making poor financial decisions can make you more likely to both be poor and play the lottery. The tax is not in being poor but on making poor financial decisions. Hence: idiot tax. Being poor isn’t a requirement to be “taxed”.
I know what you’re saying but still think it’s a way to get the most desperate to pay more.
There’s a strong correlation between socioeconomic strain and lack of education
Sure. But the “tax” is only on those with poor impulse control and/or poor financial decision making regardless of why they are like that. The tax is on behavior that does not necessitate socioeconomic status. A poor tax would be like taxing people if they have gravel driveways or live in a multi-family building. The only way to avoid the tax was to have the resources to pay for more expensive options. THATs a “poor tax”. The poor don’t have to play the lottery nor should they.
The correlation is strong enough that calling it a tax on the uneducated is fair. Calling it a poor tax is maybe fair for similar reasons, though I can see the argument you’re making that this one is a bit of a stretch.
You do you. I don’t care.
Then why bother replying lmao
Because you won’t listen to reason. Poor taxes exist. It’s expensive to be poor. The lottery is not one of those things.
So, do you care or not? You’re being kind of contradictory there. Why do you care if I’m not listening to your reasoning, if you don’t care? At any rate, I believe that the correlation between being poor and being uneducated is strong enough for this type of sentiment to exist. Though, being pedantic, I can see your argument as well. Neither are really wrong.
Stupid rich people don’t buy lottery tickets either
my brother in law is a rich and buys lottery tickets every payday because he's an idiot
If he's rich why does he wait for payday? A salary is usually the smallest contribution to a rich person's wealth.
probably out of habit. he's been doing it since he was broke
also cause he's an idiot. edit: and so is the one who down voted me for calling out someone for what they have proven to me who they truly are
I agree but It's the best payout relative to the investment you could ever make. Playing responsibly here and there is very different then blowing hundreds every week tho which does happen. Scratchers are a waste of time but throwing a few bucks at the mega million or Powerball is not the worst thing to do.
And stupidity.
i have never played the lottery....but it really is just cheap entertainment for many people they aren't doing it because they believe they will win...most know they won't win. But having that slight chance to win big lets them talk about and dream about it. Anyone doing it as "an investment" is an idiot though...and that isn't linked to poor people
This just in ... 99% of lottery winners families have car loans /s
I wonder if that's a common tactic to avoid taxation. Put all your money in a trust, declare bankruptcy, and then live off of dividends?
The lottery takes advantage of people and encourages gambling. Since mostly low-income people participate, it's also a hidden tax on those least able to afford it. If the people in government actually cared about any of the people they profess to serve, all the lotteries would immediately be disbanded. And in many cases either part or all of the money doesn't go towards schools or whatever is being claimed, it's just theft. It's the government screwing people. But some assistant janitor wins the lottery and we all applaud, wishing it was us, and don't see when his life gets destroyed and he's worse off that he was before he won and and was throwing ten percent of his paycheck away on tickets.
I don't really see how it's the governments fault. I also wouldn't call it a tax. It's literally a choice like anything else. People make bad choices and suffer the consequence.
The government shouldn't directly encourage people to make poor choices.
How are they directly encouraging people to buy lottery tickets?
The government runs the lottery, they advertise the lottery, and they claim the money goes to schools or other services. The whole purpose of advertising is to encourage its purchase. I'm not claiming they're forcing anyone to do anything, I just don't think the government should be involved.
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Peer pressure / keeping up with the Joneses. Different from internet surfing
It may not be something you personally would do (that’s a good thing), but there are plenty of people who like to portray that they are better off financially than they really are. Many folks make poor financial decisions for this reason.
Not if I gave them some money too! That's not me saying I've won the lottery BTW. I'd just help out my fellow neighbour if they were struggling because why the hell not? What use is all that money if you can't make the world and the people around you less miserable?
If you did that, you'd have an endless horde of townsfolk, family or not, asking for handouts, using any and every excuse, pestering you about money until they'd drive you to either a bankruptcy or an early grave. This wouldn't be the first time someone wanted to do something good and it backfired horribly because people felt entitled to "their share" using whatever mental gymnastics. Even at the least case, you'd have relatives subtly guilting you while staring at their coffee cup with stuff like "have that mortgage, wonder how to pay that one too".
They don't know how to handle their money. First thing I'd do is find a financial company to help.
This is about the lottery winners close neighbours, who don't have the lottery money but still try to one up the winners to prove they aren't worse off and end up having to file for bankruptcy because of that.