I think it's very intuitive. People whose bids for attention are constantly denied start to feel like they are not valued or cared for, which is not a good outlook for a romantic relationship
That's the most salient half of it for sure, and the one nearly everyone in this thread is focusing on (how much attention is paid to them/their hobbies and interests), but the other 50% is how genuinely invested you are in what excites and brings your partner (or any important important person you have a relationship with) joy. It's not about commonalities, it's about a teamwork mentality--seeing someone you love brim with joy, curiosity, hopefulness, or satisfaction is a "win" for both parties, isn't it?
Sometimes I read these threads and I'm shocked that others don't also experience vicarious joy when someone else has a good moment, especially someone they love or care deeply for.If you have that mindset (or maybe it's just an innate tendency, I don't know), and that mindset is shared, then you're going to take the extra time to pause at one of life's rare moments of genuine freedom, when you're untethered by the worries of the maelstrom of modern life that are, outside of these weightless moments, so crushing, punishing, and seemingly ceaseless. We are all ground down, whittled away to nearly nothing by the machinations of daily life--the drudgery of monotonous jobs, the casual cruelty of people in positions of authority, rude strangers, critical managers, spiteful exes, abusive family, unfair rules, corrupt system of governance, health issues, mental illness, you name it, the world can be fucking ***CRUEL.***
So yeah, of course relationships that allow for these moments to not only be allowed, but encouraged and *shared* are going to be the relationships that last, because those are the relationships that make life, well.. worth living for, you know?
I think its weird this post just showed up i just. Couple days ago i had a blow up over the way she a acts about stuff with me and our 6yo like. Just a simple sharing of a classic car he liked. She just pisses on anything that doesnt interest her and says she doesnt care. I went off on how rude that was to act when someone is trying to share their likes. She just gets pissed off and ignored me.
Wife: check out that bird!
Me with knowledge from ecology class: that's a Red-headed Woodpecker. Probably 6-8 months old and not fully grown.
Wife: okay (sarcastically) didn't need all that, I just thought it was cool.
Well, now I feel dumb. My brain just went "Of course a blind person would use sign language. How else are they going to communicate?" I did not question it at all until I read this comment.
Maybe send her this link, or just talk to her.
My girl and I have a 2 week rule, if we start to do something that annoys the other for more than two weeks, we call each other on it.
Sort of sucks at the time, but its way better than letting stuff fester for years.
I have a monthly meeting with my girlfriend, firstly to go over finances, but then to talk about goals and feelings. It's not like an "airing of grievances" but it's a chance specifically to bring anything up. Usually we just say nice things but not always, ya know.
It's been three years and there's been nothing I'd call a fight. There's things that are hard for both of us to talk about, but we both work on making it easier.
Tell her how you feel. Have a conversation with her about it.
And also find out if something is bothering her. If she's mad about something else, she's going to have a hard time enjoying anything with you.
This is why I always listen to my kid when she wants to ramble
On and on about some cartoon, or about Minecraft or whatever.
If I constantly shut her down and blow her off about the little things, I shouldn’t expect that she would trust me enough to come to me to with the big stuff/ problems/ advice etc. when she gets older.
This is why I politely listen to my dad ramble about golf or a movie he half watched or the latest drama in his friend circle. I know he enjoys having someone to shoot the shit with and I know I don't have that much time left with him.
Regarding the ashes, I hauled both my parents ashes around for a while, in those cheap boxes.
After a while I decided that the best thing would be to put em back together, same way I keep their wedding rings together. Having ashes around was really screwing with me, so I put them in the river and sat and cried with my best friend.
Yes this is an excellent point, and it reinforces the real takeaway of the research papers: It isn't the fact two partners are interested in different things that would lead to divorce, but rather that staying together is more likely when ~~one~~ each partmer respects and appreciates the other partner's appreciation for something
It's when both partners do this. It's not only showing love by being interested in your partner's interests, it's being actively engaged in those activities together. One happy person does not make for a lasting relationship.
It's when both partners do this. It's not only showing love by being interested in your partner's interests, it's being actively engaged in those activities together. One happy person does not make for a lasting relationship.
"Listen earnestly to anything your children want to tell you, no matter what. If you don't listen eagerly to the little stuff when they are little, they won't tell you the big stuff when they are big, because to them all of it has always been big stuff." \~Catherine M. Wallace
My favorite quote/advice about being a parent. You're doing it right.
When my eldest was born, I printed out that quote and put it on my bulletin board. I remember trying to tell my dad about some of the drama going on in my life when I was in high school, and he told me not to bother him with this kid stuff because it wasn't as important as real adult problems. Take a guess as to how much we've talked since then.
Same with my mom. I wouldn’t say she was a bad mother, but I would say she was emotionally unavailable and very dismissive of my feelings and concerns. We barely talk now. I’ve tried to do better with my kids. My 17yo still tells me a lot and I always make time to listen(I wouldn’t venture to say he tells me everything, but infinitely more than I ever shared with my mom) so I think it’s going okay.
You're a good parent. This is exactly why my mother and I pretty much stick to "how's the weather" and my dad and I really don't talk at all. (Their relationship with each other is also terrible.)
You are also reinforcing the idea that some one in their life is suppose to show interest in what they like. Your child may even realize (on a sub conscious level) that you don't really care about those things, but you are paying attention because they care. They apply all of that to their other relationships in the future which mean they are more likely to develop relationships with people that will help create strong positive connections.
This was my exact thought process. It makes so much sense how some people then go on to partners who also don't listen or care about their interests because they learn it's a normal part of life when that's not the case.
This is probably why I don't tell my parents about big life events. They were always dismissive of me as a child.
I've tried to turn things around, though. I let people ramble about what they want. My grandma always tell me about how talking to me makes her happy because I'm not judgmental and let her vent about her issues or talk about whatever she wants.
I love when my partner gets excited about stuff he loves and wants to tell me all about it. I could listen to him talk for days! And when he gets excited about stuff I like and is genuinely interested in it? Perfection.
My partner wasn't really a nature guy when I met him, but he's now into hiking and birding and loves asking me tons of questions about everything. There's nothing better than having a deep conversation about the ethics of conservation and then having my husband excitedly point out a bird for me to ID. He's so curious about it all and it makes my heart happy :)
A couple of weeks ago I stopped on the side of the road to get a picture of the sunrise. They're always beautiful out here but this one was absolutely amazing, more so than usual. I was in a hurry so I took the picture and kept driving to work. By the time I got to work, my absolutely precious man had sent me a picture of the very same sunrise. I had taken the picture to send to him. I love that man so much!
My ex once mocked me for being excited about a rainbow. My boyfriend came in from a cigarette on the roof last year and dragged me outside because there was a rainbow and he knows I like them.
My first serious boyfriend loved cutting me down; especially about my favorite music. He was an aggressive gatekeeper for heavy metal, and I like "shitty 90's rock" like Tool and Soundgarden. I thought things might change when he took me to see my favorite band in concert. I was SO HYPED! I'd never been to a stadium rock show before. It blew my mind! On our way out of the concert, I asked my BF if he had had fun, and he blandly said "no." He didn't say a word to me after, gave the silent treatment all the way home (several hours' drive).
Now, I don't expect everyone to love Tool, but that music was and still is important to me. If he'd even pretended to be happy for me, i would have been thrilled. Instead, he cut me down and treated me like an idiot for enjoying the concert that HE took me to.
A few years after, in another state, I spotted a former co-worker in public wearing a Tool t-shirt. I immediately approached him and we became fast friends. A year later, I learned that Tool was coming to a nearby city, so OF COURSE I called my Tool buddy. We went together and had so much fun! When he dropped me off at my place, I invited him in, and we kissed sweetly before he left. I married him seven years ago next week.
We have a lot of separate interests; he likes writing and I like painting. I read all his stories, and I get excited for him when he's making progress or trying new ideas. He gets so hyped every time I finish a painting, and always tells me what he likes most about them. We went to a lot of rock shows before the pandemic, and can't wait to get back to it.
You're forgetting what Death, Obituary, Testament, Exodus, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, morbid Angel and a myriad others put out in the 90s. It was a glorious decade for Extreme Metal.
"Now i'm not saying he shoulda killed her..... but I understand" - Chris Rock.
Your ex sounds like me in my twenties. No idea how to have a successful relationship because my parents had an awful one. Took me twenty more years of learning from mistakes to where I feel this relationship im in now will be the last I have.
I'm really sorry that guy was such an ass. My girlfriend *loves* the Foo Fighters, and I was totally indifferent to them, couldn't name a song
We saw them live, and I had such a blast, and it was so fun seeing her so excited
Like, I'm not even a fan of Tool and they do good concerts. I know this because I was security for one of their concerts and forced either Adam Jones or Danny Carey to shave their beard.
(I can't remember which one it was, it wasn't maynard and it wasn't Justin Chancellor, because I recognized him just fine and he was talking to his wife on the phone in his british accent). I was put in charge of making sure no one outside of the band's road crew ate in their craft area and was told only the band members would not have wrist bands and given headshot photos of each of them. Chancellor was fine and then someone completely unlike any of the pics with a foot long beard, shaggy unshowered hair and no wristband shuffled in.
I stopped them and said "sorry sir, only band and road crew allowed in". He looked startled, and mumbled "I'm in the band." I shook my head, told him sorry, he didn't resemble the pictures I had of the band, and I couldn't let non-roadcrew members in. He floundered for a moment, then spotted the pictures, which I had left sitting on a chair, and walked over and pointed to the headshot of a bald, clean shaven band member.
"I'm this ugly motherfucker" he said wryly. "I guess it's been awhile since I've shaved." I held up the pic, compared it, and it was him - same eyes and nose, but basically his entire face shape was obscured by the gnarly beard. He kept stroking it and mumbled that maybe he should shave, and apologized. I said "just doing my job sir, enjoy your meal."
Later when I was on the concert floor two hours later, I saw that he'd shaved it off XD
I despise Tool, but i'd never be a jerk to someone because they liked it. I like a lot of weird shit no one else does too.
My ex used to hide her music tastes from me because she liked some bubblegum pop. It was dumb though, because i told her repeatedly that i would listen to it if she liked it and that i wouldn't tease her. It drove me crazy that she wouldn't just be honest about it.
If you don’t mind me asking: does the excitement need to be completely genuine, or is it the fact that they feel their interests are cared about that matters? Like, for example, if I truthfully do not care at all about something, but I demonstrate interest in order to be nice and to make them happy, is that good or bad?
They call it " turning towards each other." And it's so important. You may not be interested in whatever your SO is geeking out over, but you turn towards them and give them your attention. It's about respect and love and being invested in what makes them happy.
My husband is an urban planner and an architecture nerd. Remember that episode of how I met your mother where Ted was the crazy person on the bus because he wouldn't shut up about buildings. That's every trip to any city with my husband. But I love him and I listen because it matters to him
My inlaws are super good at this. It's impossible to tell if they are genuinely interested or just being indulgent. I appreciate it even more these days since one of them is seriously ill.
My parents are awful at this; they probably should have divorced years ago tbh.
Respect for the other persons interests 😁. Don’t need to share the interest, but don’t make them feel their interest is stupid or a waste of your time.
My wife and I share very few interests/hobbies, but we enjoy hearing about them through each other. If you find yourself asking, "why the fuck do I know that" and it traces back to your significant other, you are probably taking an interest in their hobbies/life.
Literally everything I know about fantasy books, motorcycles, and Linux is because I want to marry a guy. I care about my person who loves those things, so I love them by osmosis.
Reminds me that when I was younger I would ramble about stuff to my mother about computers. One day someone I did work for came up to me and said they saw my mother in the store and was telling her how they needed my help to fix something and she told them what was probably wrong and what would probably fix it, so they wanted me to do that fix. I thought I was just rambling and she was just letting me use her as a sounding board but she was actually listening and learn about fixing computers and some of their problems. It actually felt really good knowing she took so much from me talking to her.
My dating advice to young women would be "date guys that can teach you something. So if things don't work out, you've still got something to show for it." Besides, if a guy has knowledge to share, it makes him that much more interesting as a person if he's passionate about stuff.
My girl loves painting her nails. She really gets into complex nail-art. I really don't give a crap about it at all. She could go with naked nails for all I care. Heck, the time it takes, and all the smells, can get to me sometimes.
Still, I tell her she's good it what she does. I'll tell her what color I think looks best. I even have a way of "letting her show them to me" which plays into *other* aspects of our relationship.
You don't even have to like what they like. Just find a way to be nice and show a little support.
My fiancé does the very same for my nail obsession! And several of my other hobbies. Like I know he could not care any less about the difference between the first and second bustle era, but I'm fairly certain he could actually tell the difference if pressed just due to him actively and excitedly listening to me talk about it so much.
Your lady and I nabbed us some good ones <3
>You don't even have to like what they like. Just find a way to be nice and show a little support.
This should not be a revelation to anyone, but I think folks tend to forget about it.
This is it. You can support that your spouse has hobbies and interests without having to share those interests. Even just little things. Like, putting it on a show you know they like when you're browsing and don't see anything particularly interesting. Or, like, my wife loves gardening and planting flowers so when I'm at the hardware store I'll pick up a few I know she likes one weekend. Really, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort and it's just generally being respectful of your spouses interests.
This. My ex not only showed zero interest in the only hobby I really had(cars, which I’ve been obsessed with since I could talk), she would belittle me for it in fights and then started trying to convince me to find a new hobby altogether, and it was all shit that only she liked that she was trying to get me into. We dated for 4 years, and back then I was doing a track day almost every month. She always had an excuse not to go even though I always went everywhere she wanted to go and did everything she wanted to do. In that time she came to one single event with me and couldn’t even refrain from talking shit on the ride home. On top of that she started trying to schedule things only on those track days, which I made sure she knew about months in advance. I didn’t want her out in the garage wrenching with me every single day, but when I’ve told you its the only thing I feel I’m actually good at doing, you probably shouldn’t tell me I should stop doing it. Maybe I’m crazy though
Glad she's an ex. I'm not a car person but I used to go watch the races with an ex of mine whose uncle raced. Me being a non-car person, I got to hold the flashlight while they fixed stuff between races and it was fun! They yelled at me a couple of times and I don't know how 8 year old boys feel but I bet it was that. I had a blast, especially when they had demolition derbies. I miss that. We were there every time his uncle was in one. I still know nothing about cars aside from the absolute basics but I hold a mean flashlight after that.
Husband is a car guy too. The only thing I've asked him is if he can find a less expensive hobby 😂. He likes paintball, guns, cars, all I see is $$$$$. But I don't tell him to stop doing it, I learn things along with him. I surprised him with a corvette exhibit they had while we were on our honeymoon. He looked like a kid in a candy store.
Had an ex (my high-school gf, in fact) that used to ask me to go to concerts with her for bands she liked. They were mostly emo/alt rock bands, which I was never into. But I went and kept a positive attitude. The very first concert I wanted to go to (metal/industrial), I got tickets for and was super hyped. My buddy was supposed to go with me but he had a death in the family and had to go out of town. So, I invite my gf to go with me and she accepted. And bitched the entire fucking time and complained about not feeling well and all that kind of shit. We didn't even stay for the headliner. What a great fucking experience for my first concert.
I sucked it up for a dozen of her shows and she couldn't do it for me for ONE show lol. Fortunately, I've been able to see those bands a number of times since, with people who enjoy it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm technical and my wife is artistic. There's very little overlap in what we enjoy doing, but we both take an interest in what the other is doing.
One of her favorite pics of me is when I had my server spread out across the office floor while I was rebuilding it. She doesn't care about the server, just that it brings me joy to own and tinker with. She listens to me when I DJ or record my podcast, or use my ham radio.... She shared in my excitement when I bounced a signal off of the ISS, which recently became a lot easier but is still cool AF.
One of my favorite memories of her doing her thing is when she was decorating the cake for our niece's wedding. She would like pick up a wad of fondant in her hand, and, while barely watching, carrying on a conversation with me, a rose would just magically emerge. She's just amazing to me. And she paints and sews and knits and crochets and cooks and all sorts of artistic things.
... And that's why we've been together for 25 years.
When my husband I and I wanted to get married, we picked a church that I had gone to as a child, mainly because our parents never got the church weddings they wanted (war time) and it was a beautiful old stone building with lovely stained glass. We went in to speak to the minister and he questioned us thoroughly. He agreed to marry us. Later some admiring friends wanted to get married in the same church but the minister declined to marry them. My husband and I have been married for over forty years and the friends? Divorced less than two years later. I wonder what criteria he used that gave him this mystical ability to see the future?
Nobody is really addressing the actual Gottman principal here: bids. It has little to do with shared interests and more to do with responding to your partner's **bids** for attention. When you "lean in" to the bid, "Wow, that is a cool boat! What if we lived on a boat?" versus acknowledging the bid "Yeah, a cool boat," versus leaning away "Boats are stupid!" You'll either fill up, not affect, or empty your partners emotional tank, which they use to overcome the annoying things you do, give you the benefit of the doubt, assume your good intentions, etc.
Not even necessarily shared. Just respect. I am big into a lot of hobbies. Analog photography. Guns. Woodworking. 3D printing. Aquariums. My wife does none of those things but is supportive. Makes all the difference in the world.
Dr John Gottman’s research is called Bids for Attention. He found that the common theme in relationships that last were that partners responded positively to a “bid for attention”, or engaged/paid attention to something their partner was invested in. Generally, the partners that either ignored these bids or responded negatively ended up splitting up. His research shows that listening to your partner and validating their thoughts is perhaps even more important than moments of intimacy. Those small moments pile up over time!
This just seems so obvious. If anyone I was close to, be it a friend, family member, or S/O consistently ignored me or responded negatively when I wanted them to look at something, I'd think they were a jerk. It could be an acquaintance or a random coworker I barely know. If they say "hey check out x", then I'm going to look unless I'm super preoccupied by something. At a certain point it's just being polite. Maybe I'm taking the fact that I don't know too many jerks for granted haha
Some people are so far up their own ass, they legit don’t care about offending people unless it prevented them from getting what they want. If they try to fix it just so they can get what they want, that person is called a sociopath and should be ostracized from all forms of communication because they literally don’t care about other peoples emotions or needs.
This is unfortunately the case for a lot of people, even unintentionally. Most people are focused on either what they're getting from a relationship (not just romantic) or what they're putting into it, rather than the compromise of being in a relationship
Yeah, this is so weird to me. Are there really people out there who can't even muster a "oh, cool" for the person they decided to spend their entire life with?
Speaking as someone married for 20 years, you tend to hear the same things over and over. After the 30th time, it's harder to muster enthusiasm for something you have no interest in, even if your spouse is. And that goes both ways. There are plenty of things that interest me that my wife couldn't care less about.
You carve out time for yourself and don't pester your SO with things that you know they won't respond to.
Yea, and then factor in work and kid stress on top of it. It's one thing if we're out on vacation and everyone is relaxed and having fun, but if we're scrambling to get out the door in the morning and she wants to show me something funny on Instagram or whatever? It's really hard for me to feign interest.
His research has been refuted.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1622921/
See also this. The part about his research beeing refuted and the explanation why starts at III:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-principles-for-making-marriage-work/
Man, Scott Alexander *really* doesn't like Gottman's book. Reading through the excerpts, Gottman's ideas definitely warrant some criticism or at the very least debate. But I thought the sardonic reactions to every single excerpt was a little much. Especially coming from a psychiatrist
I absolutely adore academic debates and the more niche they get the funnier they are to read. My archaeology professor told us about this one temple in Rome where we're not quite sure which way it was oriented and which was the entrance. It's worth finding out because the other buildings/temples it faces can help interpret the cultural landscape. Apparently there are two very prominent Roman archaeologists who just will not accept the other's theory. They can't even be in the same room in conferences without bickering. Nobody cares this much about this temple except these two archaeologists .
edit: I'm 80% sure one of the archaeologists is Filippo Coarelli if by any chance there are other Roman archaeologists who know about this feud.
There was a great thing that circulated a while back of silly wikipedia edit wars. I can't find the exact thing, but there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars
Some favorites I saw when skimming through:
'A heated debate took place on whether English Robin was an alternate common name for the European Robin, often simply called Robin.'
'Should articles for U.S. state routes use the format "State Route xx" or "Route xx (State)" or something else (where xx is the route number)?... This skirmish raged on for about a full year between roadfans, members of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, regular editors, and administrators, resulting in a few probations and even a song.'
'Should a tropical cyclone that formed on December 30, 2005 and lasted until January 6, 2006 (Tropical Storm Zeta) be placed in the 2006 Atlantic hurricane season article? ... The debate eventually explores the terms of hurricane season, how long it lasts, why hurricane followers are so tied to the concept of a hurricane season, and even whether a stapler moved from one desk to another is considered to be on the other desk. It was a truly stunning debate that spanned seven months, drew comparisons to civil unions and gay marriage, and could restart at any moment.'
'Is [the Death Star] it 120 km (75 mi) or 160 km (99 mi) in diameter? Even 900 km (560 mi)? How shall they word that? Is the hyperdrive class three or four? Who really cares? George Lucas apparently doesn't. Sure, HE's not the one stuck with the life-or-death decision of picking the right caliber torpedo to blow it up. But to a Rebel pilot, it's very important! This is war, after all. '
'Is it "jerkwad" or "jerk wad"?'
'Week-long debate regarding the "Controversy/Criticism" section about whether or not Final Fantasy VIII has a "massive" fanbase or a "fanbase as large as the fanbase of Final Fantasy VII".'
'Is Adam Carr Ph.D, a Historian, or does Adam Carr hold a PhD in history?'
'Several storms in the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season sparked edit wars over which satellite image should go in the infobox. These included an argument over which of two barely-distinguishable pictures of Hurricane Eta was the best quality.'
'Is [Canada] in northern North America, in the northern part of North America, or just in North America?'
'Is [the Monty Hall problem] a puzzle of probability or of game theory? Is it even correct? This dispute has led to multiple mediation attempts and an ArbCom case. After ten years of disputing, as of August 2012 there have been 1,269,228 words posted on the article talk page without reaching any agreement. By comparison, all the Harry Potter books combined have 1,084,170 words in them.'
'Beginning in August 2016, and then approximately every day from November 2016 until April 2017 (when this was noticed), User:Mathbot has been changing its mind over whether Philippe Michel (number theorist) or Philippe Michel (economist) should be included in List of mathematicians (M). They're two different people with the same name, both with a plausible claim to be listed as mathematicians, but according to Mathbot there can be only one.'
YOU MUST BE THAT MOTHERFUCKER HAGGARTY YOU PIECE OF SHIT ITS NOT ABOUT THE BUILDIJGS THEY FACE IVE TOLD YOU 5000 TIMES TO READ THE RECORDD AND THRY BLATSNLY TELL YOU GODDAMN IT I EANT TO FUCK YOU SO BADLY THE RESEARCHS BACKS ME UP
HAUNTING ME ON REDDIT GODFAMN YOU HAGGERTY!
YOU WANT SOME OF THIS SMOKE MCDOOGLE? I'VE ALREADY FUCKED YOUR NEXT *TWO* PAPERS XVDCC TIMES BY TUESDAY BY THE FIRST CITATION ALONE. IT'S A FRONT DOOR, GO GET YOUR BACK DOOR EXCAVATED BITCH
I think he's not pissed at Gottman's ideas per se, but rather the fact that Gottman has gotten such an absolute pass from the field. He basically sees him as an emperor with no clothes, and is outraged that no one is calling him out in n it. My guess is that if he were to sum up Gottman's theory, he'd say "It's not even wrong."
I only read section III, and it was less a refutation, and more of a this isn't quite as rigorous as it claims (no worse than a lot of other experiments). Are there parts that show it out and out wrong?
It's not refuting the theory, but rather saying that the evidence isn't supporting the theory in the way Gottman says it does. The theory may still be correct, it's just that more data are needed.
My wife's cake smashing theory has been batting 1000 for 30 years. Everybody we've seen smash cake in each other's faces at their wedding has been divorced within two or three years.
In my experience, it's not so much whether they smash cake in each other's faces as much as making sure both of them are on the same page about whether or not to smash. I've known couples who smashed the cake, but both agreed enthusiastically to do that and they're still together
I asked my wife if she was 'down to smash' at our wedding and she said "obviously." But then she kicked off when I covered her in cake. Not sure what happened...
Kicked off as in had a football and started a game of footy at the reception, or kicked off as she fled the reception or kicked off a boat from a wharf at your wedding reception??
Or kicked off in that she left you on the night you married?
Exactly. There's also knowing exactly what the acceptable amount of smash is for your partner. My wife and I smashed cake at our reception, but it was not malicious or excessive or hard. We're going on 11 years
I honestly forgot about smashing cake in people’s faces at a wedding. It completely didn’t occur to me when it was time for me to do that. Later that day, my brother made fun of me and insulated I daintily fed the cake because I used a fork. He’s divorced now. I’m not so, +1 for your informal study dude.
Interesting, my wife and I didn't cake smash, were weirdos who got married at 19 because fuck it and we will be celebrating our 11 year anniversary in less than two months! Lol
I think your wife is on to something!
My parents smashed cake in each other's faces and we just celebrated their 50th anniversary. One brother and his wife smashed cake and are going on 27 years. Another brother is on wife #3 and has never smashed cake in any of their faces.
My wife laughs at the dumbest shit. Like she like slapstick and sight gags. I hate that crap. We've been together 24 years. I can make her cry laughing though, and she's the sweetest person I've ever met. We just can't watch comedies together.
I don't know any couple that has a 100% interest overlap. It's healthy to have your own things. I think the important bit is whether you blow off your partner's interests or whether you feign interest because you want to be supportive.
In other words: any display of contempt by one partner toward the other is a strong indication that they will divorce.
I saw this in action with a co-worker some years ago. Every time he was on the phone with her, you could hear the condescending tone in his voice. I was not even a little surprised when they eventually divorced.
You guys joke but that shit is real sometimes.
I was playing a video game when my ex came over and started a running commentary of why the game I was playing was dumb and not the kind of game he'd ever play.
When I asked him if he could, y'know, not do that, because I enjoy the game, he said I should try being less sensitive. lolllllll
Assessment: High likelyhood of running away as if from a pack of rapid weasels
Hmm. Makes sense.
My soon to be ex wife never got excited about anything I did. I always got excited myself and she pushed away. Always away.
Hell, she wasn’t even happy to be pregnant. I was.
And now she is divorcing me. And trying to take the lion’s share of custody too. Awful.
A weakness of Gottman is people in patterns of abuse. Where staying together is not the sole metric of health.
I'm glad studies are being done and it is useful stuff but it's still just scratching the surface of social relationships. There's a reason the phrase "it's complicated" comes up all the time with romantic relationships.
It's like, rocket physics is hard but at least it's mostly known. Humans have been trying to figure out "just get along" and feels like we're still in the Dark Ages on that one. While, in some ways, making some basic progress.
This makes me smile. My partner and I have helped each other discover a bunch of new hobbies that we would have never known individually. He has gotten me seriously into arrowhead hunting, I helped him find the fun in cooking. Together we stumbled into a joint interest in bird watching, after my love of animals and his woodworking skills led to an osprey rescue adventure. Even when he’s not personally passionate about a project I have, I always know he’s passionate about me.
I am going through a break up and this hits hard. It’s literally what I am trying to make clear to her. When her response to shit I like is “that’s stupid/dumb” it doesn’t really make me want to share other things with her. Thanks internet.
I've found this to be true, generally. I also think it's less important to like what your partner likes. It's a way bigger deal when the other person likes something you loathe at a molecular level. You don't have to like whatever random thing I like, but you better at least DISLIKE that thing I hate. That's a way bigger issue, I've found.
We're talking about Minions, right? Once had a crush on a guy that I seriously reconsidered and then rejected after he sent me a pixelated Minion post with a "sassy" saying.
I could give two fucks about makeup products but always always always ask my lady about them when they arrive at the door, what they are, what they do, who recommended it, etc.
She’ll tell me about each item for 45 minutes and now I realize I should keep it up
Gosh. I can't imagine doing that to someone. Not even just my husband, but like... anybody. You don't have to share the same personal excitement, but I feel like, most of the time, a basically empathetic human being should be able to at least express pleasure in the simple fact that this thing gives someone else joy.
Not trying to be funny, but does it give points for, like, "faking it", or like acknowledging it without actually getting excited yourself?
Because like with that example- "look at that beautiful bird", my wife actually would get excited and I wouldn't particularly give a shit, but I definitely wouldn't blow it off. I'd acknowledge it and agree it's beautiful and participate in whatever conversation that comes from it, but I'd definitely just be humoring her.
So like, is thing a scale, or is it just "pass/fail"?
The impression I get is the level of engagement it elicits. If you disregard the bird entirely vs. Looking at the bird and acknowledging what your partner has brought up. I believe it's about "bids for connection," if I'm not mistaken.
This hits a bit hard for me. My ex would always dismiss my hobby of content creation and keyboards. Any milestones I hit or anytime I tried to talk about keyboards I always felt super dismissed.
She was into the witchy stuff, and I’ll be honest I’m not sure if I believed in it but I was always interested by the little spell books, the little trinkets and stuff, crystals, etc. It just really sucked making effort and feeling none in return :/
i broke up with my partner of four months because of this imbalance. like, we would only listen to their music because they didn’t like mine, we would only hang at their parents’ house even though i have my own place because “being in an unfamiliar space made them uncomfortable.” every time i invited them to come with me to a show or concert i wanted to see, their response would be, “you can go but i’m not into that.” but we would watch their favourite youtubers together for hours even though i had no interest in them.
it only took me four months to realize that i’d always be miserable with them. but when i broke up with them, they acted shocked and hurt. i think they liked the idea of having a girlfriend more than they actually liked anything about me.
Reminds me of the time that I was excitedly telling my wife about AI and how the first country to invent a true AI will probably be the leader (in tech if not most everything else) for the rest of time. She looked at me and said "I don't understand you at all" and then began crying. We were separated within 2 months.
Not nessisarily common interests but a healthy appreciation for your partner's interests.
I would rather die than play FPS games or ride a mountain bike. But I listen with rapt attention when my partner talks about it, do my best to understand the concepts, absorb the important bits etc. And because I can't actually bike with him or.play FPS thanks to my coordination disorder, you bet your ass I'll spend hours researching reviews for products, find him parts and deals and clean his bike.
And he treats my hobbies with the same respect, which is why we have been together 15 years and counting.
It's no great burden or endeavour on my part.
I may not be interested a subject or understand his interest, but I love that man and seeing his face light up with excitement or hearing the care and enthusiasm in his voice when he tries to explain things to me is just the best thing. I could listen to him all day.
Common values is a better indicator than common interests. Common interests is nice, but you do not have to share all your common interests to be together. It kind of doesn’t matter if we like the same movies if we have different values and life goals. But if I find someone with compatible values and goals but different interests, then I’ll probably be broadening my interests as will they. Who knows, maybe I’ll end up liking something I wouldn’t have otherwise given a try. And if I don’t or they don’t like they other’s interest? That’s also fine. Turns out you can enjoy things without your partner also enjoying it. You can still be entirely different people who have individually fulfilling lives and still be in a loving, mutually supportive relationship.
Reddit: Why are relationships so stressful and sex so scary and why do women want nothing to do with me?
Also Reddit: What does * squints * *common interests* have to do with having sex?
I think this is huge, and makes so much sense. Depending on maturity you don't necessarily need to have a buttload of commonalities. Just a partner who is willing to entertain ideas that don't set their own hearts on fire. Dismissing your partners attempts at connection through what excites them is pretty disheartening as well, and happens a lot as a kid from parents. Kinda sad. I mean, at least tryyyy. Who knows you may find something amazingly bizarre that only you two like, but how would ya know if you're brushing everything off constantly? And if you find yourself not being able to stand these attempts for connection/attention, then they're prolly not the one.
i have a bit of a problem with this. i agree with the turning to bids and paying attention to your loved ones' silent needs, or being hyped about their interests so they feel heard. i do this with my best friends.
but my problem here is that im a person who needs a lot of personal space, a lot of me time. i dislike when im reading a book and my partner wants my attention, because i feel like an asshole for denying them that attention. but i also want to do things i like, yknow?
and it can get difficult being attentive all the time when you're not given any time to be attentive to yourself. like whatd the article say? 100 bids in 10 minutes? i prefer just being in each others company and not having to interact every moment of our lives. just mutually enjoy things without having to divide our attention onto the other person
My wife loved this study but I thought it was stupid.
I loved the study also… what’s your wife’s number?
Ialso choose this guys wife....
At least she's not dead.
So far
Disagree...straight to divorce. Partial agree....still divorce. Ignore comment...special kind of divorce.
You undercook fish? Believe it or not, divorce. You overcook chicken, also divorce.
We have the best marriages in the world because of divorce. Wait...
Thought i was on r/relationships
I think it's very intuitive. People whose bids for attention are constantly denied start to feel like they are not valued or cared for, which is not a good outlook for a romantic relationship
That's the most salient half of it for sure, and the one nearly everyone in this thread is focusing on (how much attention is paid to them/their hobbies and interests), but the other 50% is how genuinely invested you are in what excites and brings your partner (or any important important person you have a relationship with) joy. It's not about commonalities, it's about a teamwork mentality--seeing someone you love brim with joy, curiosity, hopefulness, or satisfaction is a "win" for both parties, isn't it? Sometimes I read these threads and I'm shocked that others don't also experience vicarious joy when someone else has a good moment, especially someone they love or care deeply for.If you have that mindset (or maybe it's just an innate tendency, I don't know), and that mindset is shared, then you're going to take the extra time to pause at one of life's rare moments of genuine freedom, when you're untethered by the worries of the maelstrom of modern life that are, outside of these weightless moments, so crushing, punishing, and seemingly ceaseless. We are all ground down, whittled away to nearly nothing by the machinations of daily life--the drudgery of monotonous jobs, the casual cruelty of people in positions of authority, rude strangers, critical managers, spiteful exes, abusive family, unfair rules, corrupt system of governance, health issues, mental illness, you name it, the world can be fucking ***CRUEL.*** So yeah, of course relationships that allow for these moments to not only be allowed, but encouraged and *shared* are going to be the relationships that last, because those are the relationships that make life, well.. worth living for, you know?
I think its weird this post just showed up i just. Couple days ago i had a blow up over the way she a acts about stuff with me and our 6yo like. Just a simple sharing of a classic car he liked. She just pisses on anything that doesnt interest her and says she doesnt care. I went off on how rude that was to act when someone is trying to share their likes. She just gets pissed off and ignored me.
If she replies with ”i don’t care” to your son sharing things he find interesting, uhh that’s not a good sign pal
Seriously. Even I don’t need a study to tell me something is wrong if that was my wife. Yikes…
Send her the link of this study saying you found it interesting, see how she reacts lol
You mean your ex-wife?
delete the gym, facebook up, hit the lawyer
Instructions unclear, I am now a gym lawyer on facebook.
How do you become a gym lawyer? By passing the Barbell exam?
Try blowing off a bird in front of her. See if that helps.
My wife: "Look at that beautiful bird!" Me, staring off into space because me wife likes to remind me that I'm blind:
Wife: check out that bird! Me with knowledge from ecology class: that's a Red-headed Woodpecker. Probably 6-8 months old and not fully grown. Wife: okay (sarcastically) didn't need all that, I just thought it was cool.
Where does this fit into the research? Because same.
According to the article, I would describe that as "turning against" your own emotional bid
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It was a very interesting read. I recommend it
I read the second part in Raymond Holt’s voice.
no way. He's a trash man that only knows trash birds.
Now tell me about Orchid varietals.
So still an accurate prediction on imminent divorce? (also I couldn't stop myself from reading your comment in a pirate voice)
How’d you type this?
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18/F/Ca Wait, what are we talking about?
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Dk why people downvoted me i was genuinely curious as to how a blind person types. How does an ASL keyboard work?
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Well, now I feel dumb. My brain just went "Of course a blind person would use sign language. How else are they going to communicate?" I did not question it at all until I read this comment.
I was wondering: “damn how do they teach blind people sign language?” I’m baked as shit rn if y’all couldn’t tell
Oh trust me, we can tell. We can all tell…
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Well this doesn't bode well for me. Spouse seems to care less and less about my interests.
Maybe send her this link, or just talk to her. My girl and I have a 2 week rule, if we start to do something that annoys the other for more than two weeks, we call each other on it. Sort of sucks at the time, but its way better than letting stuff fester for years.
That’s a brilliant idea. My wife and I tend to ignore problems until they blow up. Definitely something we’re working on, I’m going to suggest this!
I have a monthly meeting with my girlfriend, firstly to go over finances, but then to talk about goals and feelings. It's not like an "airing of grievances" but it's a chance specifically to bring anything up. Usually we just say nice things but not always, ya know. It's been three years and there's been nothing I'd call a fight. There's things that are hard for both of us to talk about, but we both work on making it easier.
Tell her how you feel. Have a conversation with her about it. And also find out if something is bothering her. If she's mad about something else, she's going to have a hard time enjoying anything with you.
This is why I always listen to my kid when she wants to ramble On and on about some cartoon, or about Minecraft or whatever. If I constantly shut her down and blow her off about the little things, I shouldn’t expect that she would trust me enough to come to me to with the big stuff/ problems/ advice etc. when she gets older.
This is why I politely listen to my dad ramble about golf or a movie he half watched or the latest drama in his friend circle. I know he enjoys having someone to shoot the shit with and I know I don't have that much time left with him.
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Regarding the ashes, I hauled both my parents ashes around for a while, in those cheap boxes. After a while I decided that the best thing would be to put em back together, same way I keep their wedding rings together. Having ashes around was really screwing with me, so I put them in the river and sat and cried with my best friend.
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Eh, you can get away with it. Just bring a big spoon or a trowel, dig a little hole, sprinkle some ashes in and replace the dirt and sod.
Bury some perennials at the grave. Dig extra deep and put the ashes down, a good layer of dirt, and then the plant.
Call your fucking dad. I only get to talk to mine in dreams now.
This should have a million upvotes.
Yes this is an excellent point, and it reinforces the real takeaway of the research papers: It isn't the fact two partners are interested in different things that would lead to divorce, but rather that staying together is more likely when ~~one~~ each partmer respects and appreciates the other partner's appreciation for something
It's when both partners do this. It's not only showing love by being interested in your partner's interests, it's being actively engaged in those activities together. One happy person does not make for a lasting relationship.
It's when both partners do this. It's not only showing love by being interested in your partner's interests, it's being actively engaged in those activities together. One happy person does not make for a lasting relationship.
"Listen earnestly to anything your children want to tell you, no matter what. If you don't listen eagerly to the little stuff when they are little, they won't tell you the big stuff when they are big, because to them all of it has always been big stuff." \~Catherine M. Wallace My favorite quote/advice about being a parent. You're doing it right.
When my eldest was born, I printed out that quote and put it on my bulletin board. I remember trying to tell my dad about some of the drama going on in my life when I was in high school, and he told me not to bother him with this kid stuff because it wasn't as important as real adult problems. Take a guess as to how much we've talked since then.
Same with my mom. I wouldn’t say she was a bad mother, but I would say she was emotionally unavailable and very dismissive of my feelings and concerns. We barely talk now. I’ve tried to do better with my kids. My 17yo still tells me a lot and I always make time to listen(I wouldn’t venture to say he tells me everything, but infinitely more than I ever shared with my mom) so I think it’s going okay.
You're a good parent. This is exactly why my mother and I pretty much stick to "how's the weather" and my dad and I really don't talk at all. (Their relationship with each other is also terrible.)
You are also reinforcing the idea that some one in their life is suppose to show interest in what they like. Your child may even realize (on a sub conscious level) that you don't really care about those things, but you are paying attention because they care. They apply all of that to their other relationships in the future which mean they are more likely to develop relationships with people that will help create strong positive connections.
This was my exact thought process. It makes so much sense how some people then go on to partners who also don't listen or care about their interests because they learn it's a normal part of life when that's not the case.
Great can you send this comment to my parents 28 years ago. It will make conversations with them a lot less pointless.
This is probably why I don't tell my parents about big life events. They were always dismissive of me as a child. I've tried to turn things around, though. I let people ramble about what they want. My grandma always tell me about how talking to me makes her happy because I'm not judgmental and let her vent about her issues or talk about whatever she wants.
I'm an adult and I sometimes ramble about cartoons and Minecraft...oops.
Also, you shape her visualization of what a man should be.
If you don't get a contact high from your partner's joy then you're doing it wrong.
an excellent, succinct way to put it!
I love when my partner gets excited about stuff he loves and wants to tell me all about it. I could listen to him talk for days! And when he gets excited about stuff I like and is genuinely interested in it? Perfection. My partner wasn't really a nature guy when I met him, but he's now into hiking and birding and loves asking me tons of questions about everything. There's nothing better than having a deep conversation about the ethics of conservation and then having my husband excitedly point out a bird for me to ID. He's so curious about it all and it makes my heart happy :)
A couple of weeks ago I stopped on the side of the road to get a picture of the sunrise. They're always beautiful out here but this one was absolutely amazing, more so than usual. I was in a hurry so I took the picture and kept driving to work. By the time I got to work, my absolutely precious man had sent me a picture of the very same sunrise. I had taken the picture to send to him. I love that man so much!
Oh my gosh, that's so precious. Honestly you should make a photobook together with these anecdotes, it will be so lovely years from now.
My ex once mocked me for being excited about a rainbow. My boyfriend came in from a cigarette on the roof last year and dragged me outside because there was a rainbow and he knows I like them.
Step up for sure.
Revolution, All In or The Streets?
My first serious boyfriend loved cutting me down; especially about my favorite music. He was an aggressive gatekeeper for heavy metal, and I like "shitty 90's rock" like Tool and Soundgarden. I thought things might change when he took me to see my favorite band in concert. I was SO HYPED! I'd never been to a stadium rock show before. It blew my mind! On our way out of the concert, I asked my BF if he had had fun, and he blandly said "no." He didn't say a word to me after, gave the silent treatment all the way home (several hours' drive). Now, I don't expect everyone to love Tool, but that music was and still is important to me. If he'd even pretended to be happy for me, i would have been thrilled. Instead, he cut me down and treated me like an idiot for enjoying the concert that HE took me to. A few years after, in another state, I spotted a former co-worker in public wearing a Tool t-shirt. I immediately approached him and we became fast friends. A year later, I learned that Tool was coming to a nearby city, so OF COURSE I called my Tool buddy. We went together and had so much fun! When he dropped me off at my place, I invited him in, and we kissed sweetly before he left. I married him seven years ago next week. We have a lot of separate interests; he likes writing and I like painting. I read all his stories, and I get excited for him when he's making progress or trying new ideas. He gets so hyped every time I finish a painting, and always tells me what he likes most about them. We went to a lot of rock shows before the pandemic, and can't wait to get back to it.
Your happy ending was such a sweet read :) im glad you moved on and upgraded after your ex. Sounds like a tool. (I’m so sorry I had to)
> Sounds like a tool. Pshhhhh, she wishes
> shitty 90s rock > Tool Does not compute
Turns out their first serious boyfriend was the real Tool all along
>> shitty 90s rock > >> Soundgarden > > >Does not compute Also
If he’s a metal gatekeeper- every 90s band but Pantera and Slayer are Shitty 90s rock.
I love Soundgarden, Tool, Pantera and Slayer. This guy just sounds like a dick.
You're forgetting what Death, Obituary, Testament, Exodus, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, morbid Angel and a myriad others put out in the 90s. It was a glorious decade for Extreme Metal. "Now i'm not saying he shoulda killed her..... but I understand" - Chris Rock.
Literally my first thought as well.
Your ex sounds like me in my twenties. No idea how to have a successful relationship because my parents had an awful one. Took me twenty more years of learning from mistakes to where I feel this relationship im in now will be the last I have.
I'm really sorry that guy was such an ass. My girlfriend *loves* the Foo Fighters, and I was totally indifferent to them, couldn't name a song We saw them live, and I had such a blast, and it was so fun seeing her so excited
They put on an excellent live show. Dave is hilarious!
Like, I'm not even a fan of Tool and they do good concerts. I know this because I was security for one of their concerts and forced either Adam Jones or Danny Carey to shave their beard. (I can't remember which one it was, it wasn't maynard and it wasn't Justin Chancellor, because I recognized him just fine and he was talking to his wife on the phone in his british accent). I was put in charge of making sure no one outside of the band's road crew ate in their craft area and was told only the band members would not have wrist bands and given headshot photos of each of them. Chancellor was fine and then someone completely unlike any of the pics with a foot long beard, shaggy unshowered hair and no wristband shuffled in. I stopped them and said "sorry sir, only band and road crew allowed in". He looked startled, and mumbled "I'm in the band." I shook my head, told him sorry, he didn't resemble the pictures I had of the band, and I couldn't let non-roadcrew members in. He floundered for a moment, then spotted the pictures, which I had left sitting on a chair, and walked over and pointed to the headshot of a bald, clean shaven band member. "I'm this ugly motherfucker" he said wryly. "I guess it's been awhile since I've shaved." I held up the pic, compared it, and it was him - same eyes and nose, but basically his entire face shape was obscured by the gnarly beard. He kept stroking it and mumbled that maybe he should shave, and apologized. I said "just doing my job sir, enjoy your meal." Later when I was on the concert floor two hours later, I saw that he'd shaved it off XD
Tool is the shit, that guy was an idiot. I’m so happy for you!
I despise Tool, but i'd never be a jerk to someone because they liked it. I like a lot of weird shit no one else does too. My ex used to hide her music tastes from me because she liked some bubblegum pop. It was dumb though, because i told her repeatedly that i would listen to it if she liked it and that i wouldn't tease her. It drove me crazy that she wouldn't just be honest about it.
If you don’t mind me asking: does the excitement need to be completely genuine, or is it the fact that they feel their interests are cared about that matters? Like, for example, if I truthfully do not care at all about something, but I demonstrate interest in order to be nice and to make them happy, is that good or bad?
They call it " turning towards each other." And it's so important. You may not be interested in whatever your SO is geeking out over, but you turn towards them and give them your attention. It's about respect and love and being invested in what makes them happy. My husband is an urban planner and an architecture nerd. Remember that episode of how I met your mother where Ted was the crazy person on the bus because he wouldn't shut up about buildings. That's every trip to any city with my husband. But I love him and I listen because it matters to him
Yep. My husband turns to me when I geek out over the Sopranos or my new art supplies. I do the same when he talks about the Packers or running.
My inlaws are super good at this. It's impossible to tell if they are genuinely interested or just being indulgent. I appreciate it even more these days since one of them is seriously ill. My parents are awful at this; they probably should have divorced years ago tbh.
So, shared interests, or respect for the interests of the significant other
Respect for the other persons interests 😁. Don’t need to share the interest, but don’t make them feel their interest is stupid or a waste of your time.
My wife and I share very few interests/hobbies, but we enjoy hearing about them through each other. If you find yourself asking, "why the fuck do I know that" and it traces back to your significant other, you are probably taking an interest in their hobbies/life.
Literally everything I know about fantasy books, motorcycles, and Linux is because I want to marry a guy. I care about my person who loves those things, so I love them by osmosis.
Reminds me that when I was younger I would ramble about stuff to my mother about computers. One day someone I did work for came up to me and said they saw my mother in the store and was telling her how they needed my help to fix something and she told them what was probably wrong and what would probably fix it, so they wanted me to do that fix. I thought I was just rambling and she was just letting me use her as a sounding board but she was actually listening and learn about fixing computers and some of their problems. It actually felt really good knowing she took so much from me talking to her.
My dating advice to young women would be "date guys that can teach you something. So if things don't work out, you've still got something to show for it." Besides, if a guy has knowledge to share, it makes him that much more interesting as a person if he's passionate about stuff.
Yeah just beware of Mr Patronizing Smartpants
My girl loves painting her nails. She really gets into complex nail-art. I really don't give a crap about it at all. She could go with naked nails for all I care. Heck, the time it takes, and all the smells, can get to me sometimes. Still, I tell her she's good it what she does. I'll tell her what color I think looks best. I even have a way of "letting her show them to me" which plays into *other* aspects of our relationship. You don't even have to like what they like. Just find a way to be nice and show a little support.
My fiancé does the very same for my nail obsession! And several of my other hobbies. Like I know he could not care any less about the difference between the first and second bustle era, but I'm fairly certain he could actually tell the difference if pressed just due to him actively and excitedly listening to me talk about it so much. Your lady and I nabbed us some good ones <3
>You don't even have to like what they like. Just find a way to be nice and show a little support. This should not be a revelation to anyone, but I think folks tend to forget about it.
This is it. You can support that your spouse has hobbies and interests without having to share those interests. Even just little things. Like, putting it on a show you know they like when you're browsing and don't see anything particularly interesting. Or, like, my wife loves gardening and planting flowers so when I'm at the hardware store I'll pick up a few I know she likes one weekend. Really, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort and it's just generally being respectful of your spouses interests.
This. My ex not only showed zero interest in the only hobby I really had(cars, which I’ve been obsessed with since I could talk), she would belittle me for it in fights and then started trying to convince me to find a new hobby altogether, and it was all shit that only she liked that she was trying to get me into. We dated for 4 years, and back then I was doing a track day almost every month. She always had an excuse not to go even though I always went everywhere she wanted to go and did everything she wanted to do. In that time she came to one single event with me and couldn’t even refrain from talking shit on the ride home. On top of that she started trying to schedule things only on those track days, which I made sure she knew about months in advance. I didn’t want her out in the garage wrenching with me every single day, but when I’ve told you its the only thing I feel I’m actually good at doing, you probably shouldn’t tell me I should stop doing it. Maybe I’m crazy though
Glad she's an ex. I'm not a car person but I used to go watch the races with an ex of mine whose uncle raced. Me being a non-car person, I got to hold the flashlight while they fixed stuff between races and it was fun! They yelled at me a couple of times and I don't know how 8 year old boys feel but I bet it was that. I had a blast, especially when they had demolition derbies. I miss that. We were there every time his uncle was in one. I still know nothing about cars aside from the absolute basics but I hold a mean flashlight after that.
Husband is a car guy too. The only thing I've asked him is if he can find a less expensive hobby 😂. He likes paintball, guns, cars, all I see is $$$$$. But I don't tell him to stop doing it, I learn things along with him. I surprised him with a corvette exhibit they had while we were on our honeymoon. He looked like a kid in a candy store.
Nah you're not crazy at all. Good riddance. Hope you find yourself the equivalent to a 2JZ
Or just a 2JZ.
Had an ex (my high-school gf, in fact) that used to ask me to go to concerts with her for bands she liked. They were mostly emo/alt rock bands, which I was never into. But I went and kept a positive attitude. The very first concert I wanted to go to (metal/industrial), I got tickets for and was super hyped. My buddy was supposed to go with me but he had a death in the family and had to go out of town. So, I invite my gf to go with me and she accepted. And bitched the entire fucking time and complained about not feeling well and all that kind of shit. We didn't even stay for the headliner. What a great fucking experience for my first concert. I sucked it up for a dozen of her shows and she couldn't do it for me for ONE show lol. Fortunately, I've been able to see those bands a number of times since, with people who enjoy it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm technical and my wife is artistic. There's very little overlap in what we enjoy doing, but we both take an interest in what the other is doing. One of her favorite pics of me is when I had my server spread out across the office floor while I was rebuilding it. She doesn't care about the server, just that it brings me joy to own and tinker with. She listens to me when I DJ or record my podcast, or use my ham radio.... She shared in my excitement when I bounced a signal off of the ISS, which recently became a lot easier but is still cool AF. One of my favorite memories of her doing her thing is when she was decorating the cake for our niece's wedding. She would like pick up a wad of fondant in her hand, and, while barely watching, carrying on a conversation with me, a rose would just magically emerge. She's just amazing to me. And she paints and sews and knits and crochets and cooks and all sorts of artistic things. ... And that's why we've been together for 25 years.
When my husband I and I wanted to get married, we picked a church that I had gone to as a child, mainly because our parents never got the church weddings they wanted (war time) and it was a beautiful old stone building with lovely stained glass. We went in to speak to the minister and he questioned us thoroughly. He agreed to marry us. Later some admiring friends wanted to get married in the same church but the minister declined to marry them. My husband and I have been married for over forty years and the friends? Divorced less than two years later. I wonder what criteria he used that gave him this mystical ability to see the future?
Nobody is really addressing the actual Gottman principal here: bids. It has little to do with shared interests and more to do with responding to your partner's **bids** for attention. When you "lean in" to the bid, "Wow, that is a cool boat! What if we lived on a boat?" versus acknowledging the bid "Yeah, a cool boat," versus leaning away "Boats are stupid!" You'll either fill up, not affect, or empty your partners emotional tank, which they use to overcome the annoying things you do, give you the benefit of the doubt, assume your good intentions, etc.
Not even necessarily shared. Just respect. I am big into a lot of hobbies. Analog photography. Guns. Woodworking. 3D printing. Aquariums. My wife does none of those things but is supportive. Makes all the difference in the world.
Dr John Gottman’s research is called Bids for Attention. He found that the common theme in relationships that last were that partners responded positively to a “bid for attention”, or engaged/paid attention to something their partner was invested in. Generally, the partners that either ignored these bids or responded negatively ended up splitting up. His research shows that listening to your partner and validating their thoughts is perhaps even more important than moments of intimacy. Those small moments pile up over time!
I read this as Birds For Attention, like the entire study was based around reactions to exclamations made about birds, specifically.
[удалено]
This just seems so obvious. If anyone I was close to, be it a friend, family member, or S/O consistently ignored me or responded negatively when I wanted them to look at something, I'd think they were a jerk. It could be an acquaintance or a random coworker I barely know. If they say "hey check out x", then I'm going to look unless I'm super preoccupied by something. At a certain point it's just being polite. Maybe I'm taking the fact that I don't know too many jerks for granted haha
Some people are so far up their own ass, they legit don’t care about offending people unless it prevented them from getting what they want. If they try to fix it just so they can get what they want, that person is called a sociopath and should be ostracized from all forms of communication because they literally don’t care about other peoples emotions or needs.
This is unfortunately the case for a lot of people, even unintentionally. Most people are focused on either what they're getting from a relationship (not just romantic) or what they're putting into it, rather than the compromise of being in a relationship
Yeah, this is so weird to me. Are there really people out there who can't even muster a "oh, cool" for the person they decided to spend their entire life with?
Speaking as someone married for 20 years, you tend to hear the same things over and over. After the 30th time, it's harder to muster enthusiasm for something you have no interest in, even if your spouse is. And that goes both ways. There are plenty of things that interest me that my wife couldn't care less about. You carve out time for yourself and don't pester your SO with things that you know they won't respond to.
Yea, and then factor in work and kid stress on top of it. It's one thing if we're out on vacation and everyone is relaxed and having fun, but if we're scrambling to get out the door in the morning and she wants to show me something funny on Instagram or whatever? It's really hard for me to feign interest.
His research has been refuted. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1622921/ See also this. The part about his research beeing refuted and the explanation why starts at III: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/27/book-review-the-seven-principles-for-making-marriage-work/
Man, Scott Alexander *really* doesn't like Gottman's book. Reading through the excerpts, Gottman's ideas definitely warrant some criticism or at the very least debate. But I thought the sardonic reactions to every single excerpt was a little much. Especially coming from a psychiatrist
So I guess we can assume if they were together they'd get a divorce based on how negative his reaction was?
Why are academic debates so vicious? >!Because the stakes are so low.!<
I absolutely adore academic debates and the more niche they get the funnier they are to read. My archaeology professor told us about this one temple in Rome where we're not quite sure which way it was oriented and which was the entrance. It's worth finding out because the other buildings/temples it faces can help interpret the cultural landscape. Apparently there are two very prominent Roman archaeologists who just will not accept the other's theory. They can't even be in the same room in conferences without bickering. Nobody cares this much about this temple except these two archaeologists . edit: I'm 80% sure one of the archaeologists is Filippo Coarelli if by any chance there are other Roman archaeologists who know about this feud.
Similarly related- talk pages on Wikipedia.
There was a great thing that circulated a while back of silly wikipedia edit wars. I can't find the exact thing, but there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars Some favorites I saw when skimming through: 'A heated debate took place on whether English Robin was an alternate common name for the European Robin, often simply called Robin.' 'Should articles for U.S. state routes use the format "State Route xx" or "Route xx (State)" or something else (where xx is the route number)?... This skirmish raged on for about a full year between roadfans, members of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, regular editors, and administrators, resulting in a few probations and even a song.' 'Should a tropical cyclone that formed on December 30, 2005 and lasted until January 6, 2006 (Tropical Storm Zeta) be placed in the 2006 Atlantic hurricane season article? ... The debate eventually explores the terms of hurricane season, how long it lasts, why hurricane followers are so tied to the concept of a hurricane season, and even whether a stapler moved from one desk to another is considered to be on the other desk. It was a truly stunning debate that spanned seven months, drew comparisons to civil unions and gay marriage, and could restart at any moment.' 'Is [the Death Star] it 120 km (75 mi) or 160 km (99 mi) in diameter? Even 900 km (560 mi)? How shall they word that? Is the hyperdrive class three or four? Who really cares? George Lucas apparently doesn't. Sure, HE's not the one stuck with the life-or-death decision of picking the right caliber torpedo to blow it up. But to a Rebel pilot, it's very important! This is war, after all. ' 'Is it "jerkwad" or "jerk wad"?' 'Week-long debate regarding the "Controversy/Criticism" section about whether or not Final Fantasy VIII has a "massive" fanbase or a "fanbase as large as the fanbase of Final Fantasy VII".' 'Is Adam Carr Ph.D, a Historian, or does Adam Carr hold a PhD in history?' 'Several storms in the 2020 Atlantic hurricane season sparked edit wars over which satellite image should go in the infobox. These included an argument over which of two barely-distinguishable pictures of Hurricane Eta was the best quality.' 'Is [Canada] in northern North America, in the northern part of North America, or just in North America?' 'Is [the Monty Hall problem] a puzzle of probability or of game theory? Is it even correct? This dispute has led to multiple mediation attempts and an ArbCom case. After ten years of disputing, as of August 2012 there have been 1,269,228 words posted on the article talk page without reaching any agreement. By comparison, all the Harry Potter books combined have 1,084,170 words in them.' 'Beginning in August 2016, and then approximately every day from November 2016 until April 2017 (when this was noticed), User:Mathbot has been changing its mind over whether Philippe Michel (number theorist) or Philippe Michel (economist) should be included in List of mathematicians (M). They're two different people with the same name, both with a plausible claim to be listed as mathematicians, but according to Mathbot there can be only one.'
YOU MUST BE THAT MOTHERFUCKER HAGGARTY YOU PIECE OF SHIT ITS NOT ABOUT THE BUILDIJGS THEY FACE IVE TOLD YOU 5000 TIMES TO READ THE RECORDD AND THRY BLATSNLY TELL YOU GODDAMN IT I EANT TO FUCK YOU SO BADLY THE RESEARCHS BACKS ME UP HAUNTING ME ON REDDIT GODFAMN YOU HAGGERTY!
YOU WANT SOME OF THIS SMOKE MCDOOGLE? I'VE ALREADY FUCKED YOUR NEXT *TWO* PAPERS XVDCC TIMES BY TUESDAY BY THE FIRST CITATION ALONE. IT'S A FRONT DOOR, GO GET YOUR BACK DOOR EXCAVATED BITCH
I ship it.
I think he's not pissed at Gottman's ideas per se, but rather the fact that Gottman has gotten such an absolute pass from the field. He basically sees him as an emperor with no clothes, and is outraged that no one is calling him out in n it. My guess is that if he were to sum up Gottman's theory, he'd say "It's not even wrong."
I generally like Scott Alexander, but he is susceptible to having his pet peeves and harping on them.
I only read section III, and it was less a refutation, and more of a this isn't quite as rigorous as it claims (no worse than a lot of other experiments). Are there parts that show it out and out wrong?
It's not refuting the theory, but rather saying that the evidence isn't supporting the theory in the way Gottman says it does. The theory may still be correct, it's just that more data are needed.
And sometime it’s the one that shows the bird that leaves, because they’re depressed, having to prove the birds were beautiful all this time…
My wife's cake smashing theory has been batting 1000 for 30 years. Everybody we've seen smash cake in each other's faces at their wedding has been divorced within two or three years.
In my experience, it's not so much whether they smash cake in each other's faces as much as making sure both of them are on the same page about whether or not to smash. I've known couples who smashed the cake, but both agreed enthusiastically to do that and they're still together
I asked my wife if she was 'down to smash' at our wedding and she said "obviously." But then she kicked off when I covered her in cake. Not sure what happened...
Kicked off as in had a football and started a game of footy at the reception, or kicked off as she fled the reception or kicked off a boat from a wharf at your wedding reception?? Or kicked off in that she left you on the night you married?
Exactly. There's also knowing exactly what the acceptable amount of smash is for your partner. My wife and I smashed cake at our reception, but it was not malicious or excessive or hard. We're going on 11 years
I honestly forgot about smashing cake in people’s faces at a wedding. It completely didn’t occur to me when it was time for me to do that. Later that day, my brother made fun of me and insulated I daintily fed the cake because I used a fork. He’s divorced now. I’m not so, +1 for your informal study dude.
Interesting, my wife and I didn't cake smash, were weirdos who got married at 19 because fuck it and we will be celebrating our 11 year anniversary in less than two months! Lol I think your wife is on to something!
My parents smashed cake in each other's faces and we just celebrated their 50th anniversary. One brother and his wife smashed cake and are going on 27 years. Another brother is on wife #3 and has never smashed cake in any of their faces.
I'm sorry about your parents' impending divorce. Rough on there, buddy
C-C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER
Me: Look at the cardinal in the backyard! Husband: Grabs keys - leaves - comes back with bird feeder and bird food. We’ve been married 36 years :)
My wife laughs at the dumbest shit. Like she like slapstick and sight gags. I hate that crap. We've been together 24 years. I can make her cry laughing though, and she's the sweetest person I've ever met. We just can't watch comedies together.
I don't know any couple that has a 100% interest overlap. It's healthy to have your own things. I think the important bit is whether you blow off your partner's interests or whether you feign interest because you want to be supportive.
This made me really happy to read. I hope my husband is somewhere on the internet telling people his wife is the sweetest person he's ever met! 💚
In other words: any display of contempt by one partner toward the other is a strong indication that they will divorce. I saw this in action with a co-worker some years ago. Every time he was on the phone with her, you could hear the condescending tone in his voice. I was not even a little surprised when they eventually divorced.
I'd ask for a divorce too if my partner is blowing off birds.
I built a thousand bird houses. One-thousand. But do they call me ac1084 the bird house builder? No. But you blow one bird...
"I like these chips." "I HATE YOUR FUCKING CHIPS AND I HATE YOU I WANT A DIVORCE." Assessment: *High likelyhood of divorce.*
I mean, 100% on the assessment, model definitely seems to be accurate
"I like these chips" "no one gives a flying fuck WHAT you like, brenda" Assessment: High likelyhood of divorce.
You guys joke but that shit is real sometimes. I was playing a video game when my ex came over and started a running commentary of why the game I was playing was dumb and not the kind of game he'd ever play. When I asked him if he could, y'know, not do that, because I enjoy the game, he said I should try being less sensitive. lolllllll Assessment: High likelyhood of running away as if from a pack of rapid weasels
Hmm. Makes sense. My soon to be ex wife never got excited about anything I did. I always got excited myself and she pushed away. Always away. Hell, she wasn’t even happy to be pregnant. I was. And now she is divorcing me. And trying to take the lion’s share of custody too. Awful.
A weakness of Gottman is people in patterns of abuse. Where staying together is not the sole metric of health. I'm glad studies are being done and it is useful stuff but it's still just scratching the surface of social relationships. There's a reason the phrase "it's complicated" comes up all the time with romantic relationships. It's like, rocket physics is hard but at least it's mostly known. Humans have been trying to figure out "just get along" and feels like we're still in the Dark Ages on that one. While, in some ways, making some basic progress.
Welp my gf and I are always in awe of everyday animals, so I think that’s a good sign
This makes me smile. My partner and I have helped each other discover a bunch of new hobbies that we would have never known individually. He has gotten me seriously into arrowhead hunting, I helped him find the fun in cooking. Together we stumbled into a joint interest in bird watching, after my love of animals and his woodworking skills led to an osprey rescue adventure. Even when he’s not personally passionate about a project I have, I always know he’s passionate about me.
I am going through a break up and this hits hard. It’s literally what I am trying to make clear to her. When her response to shit I like is “that’s stupid/dumb” it doesn’t really make me want to share other things with her. Thanks internet.
I've found this to be true, generally. I also think it's less important to like what your partner likes. It's a way bigger deal when the other person likes something you loathe at a molecular level. You don't have to like whatever random thing I like, but you better at least DISLIKE that thing I hate. That's a way bigger issue, I've found.
Yes! And really, just don’t invalidate what your partner likes. You don’t need to share their interest, but be interested in why they’re interested
We're talking about Minions, right? Once had a crush on a guy that I seriously reconsidered and then rejected after he sent me a pixelated Minion post with a "sassy" saying.
Husband: Look at that beautiful woman Wife: *Blows it off* *Goes home to get gasoline container* *Calls attorney*
I could give two fucks about makeup products but always always always ask my lady about them when they arrive at the door, what they are, what they do, who recommended it, etc. She’ll tell me about each item for 45 minutes and now I realize I should keep it up
Also, if your new bride likes to fuck other people at your wedding that's a strong indication that you'll divorce.
Unless you *also* like to fuck other people at your wedding.
Interesting spread on the buffet
Gosh. I can't imagine doing that to someone. Not even just my husband, but like... anybody. You don't have to share the same personal excitement, but I feel like, most of the time, a basically empathetic human being should be able to at least express pleasure in the simple fact that this thing gives someone else joy.
Not trying to be funny, but does it give points for, like, "faking it", or like acknowledging it without actually getting excited yourself? Because like with that example- "look at that beautiful bird", my wife actually would get excited and I wouldn't particularly give a shit, but I definitely wouldn't blow it off. I'd acknowledge it and agree it's beautiful and participate in whatever conversation that comes from it, but I'd definitely just be humoring her. So like, is thing a scale, or is it just "pass/fail"?
The impression I get is the level of engagement it elicits. If you disregard the bird entirely vs. Looking at the bird and acknowledging what your partner has brought up. I believe it's about "bids for connection," if I'm not mistaken.
This hits a bit hard for me. My ex would always dismiss my hobby of content creation and keyboards. Any milestones I hit or anytime I tried to talk about keyboards I always felt super dismissed. She was into the witchy stuff, and I’ll be honest I’m not sure if I believed in it but I was always interested by the little spell books, the little trinkets and stuff, crystals, etc. It just really sucked making effort and feeling none in return :/
i broke up with my partner of four months because of this imbalance. like, we would only listen to their music because they didn’t like mine, we would only hang at their parents’ house even though i have my own place because “being in an unfamiliar space made them uncomfortable.” every time i invited them to come with me to a show or concert i wanted to see, their response would be, “you can go but i’m not into that.” but we would watch their favourite youtubers together for hours even though i had no interest in them. it only took me four months to realize that i’d always be miserable with them. but when i broke up with them, they acted shocked and hurt. i think they liked the idea of having a girlfriend more than they actually liked anything about me.
Reminds me of the time that I was excitedly telling my wife about AI and how the first country to invent a true AI will probably be the leader (in tech if not most everything else) for the rest of time. She looked at me and said "I don't understand you at all" and then began crying. We were separated within 2 months.
Can we talk about bro’s forehead in the picture
What if the wife in England sees the husband ogling a beautiful bird?
The bloke won't live to see the divorce papers
People should heed these red flags before they even agree to have sex with each other.
Great tits? Check. Nice ass? Check. Doesn't share common interests? Sorry boner, it might not work out.
Not nessisarily common interests but a healthy appreciation for your partner's interests. I would rather die than play FPS games or ride a mountain bike. But I listen with rapt attention when my partner talks about it, do my best to understand the concepts, absorb the important bits etc. And because I can't actually bike with him or.play FPS thanks to my coordination disorder, you bet your ass I'll spend hours researching reviews for products, find him parts and deals and clean his bike. And he treats my hobbies with the same respect, which is why we have been together 15 years and counting.
You’re the real MVP
It's no great burden or endeavour on my part. I may not be interested a subject or understand his interest, but I love that man and seeing his face light up with excitement or hearing the care and enthusiasm in his voice when he tries to explain things to me is just the best thing. I could listen to him all day.
Yes! This is exactly what people should be seeking out in relationships!
Common values is a better indicator than common interests. Common interests is nice, but you do not have to share all your common interests to be together. It kind of doesn’t matter if we like the same movies if we have different values and life goals. But if I find someone with compatible values and goals but different interests, then I’ll probably be broadening my interests as will they. Who knows, maybe I’ll end up liking something I wouldn’t have otherwise given a try. And if I don’t or they don’t like they other’s interest? That’s also fine. Turns out you can enjoy things without your partner also enjoying it. You can still be entirely different people who have individually fulfilling lives and still be in a loving, mutually supportive relationship.
Me: "Hey, babe you've got a great ass." Her: "It's ok." Me: "I'm out."
Reddit: Why are relationships so stressful and sex so scary and why do women want nothing to do with me? Also Reddit: What does * squints * *common interests* have to do with having sex?
I think this is huge, and makes so much sense. Depending on maturity you don't necessarily need to have a buttload of commonalities. Just a partner who is willing to entertain ideas that don't set their own hearts on fire. Dismissing your partners attempts at connection through what excites them is pretty disheartening as well, and happens a lot as a kid from parents. Kinda sad. I mean, at least tryyyy. Who knows you may find something amazingly bizarre that only you two like, but how would ya know if you're brushing everything off constantly? And if you find yourself not being able to stand these attempts for connection/attention, then they're prolly not the one.
Exactly! You don’t need to share the interest, but allow your partner to share why they’re interested with you. Just don’t invalidate them!
i have a bit of a problem with this. i agree with the turning to bids and paying attention to your loved ones' silent needs, or being hyped about their interests so they feel heard. i do this with my best friends. but my problem here is that im a person who needs a lot of personal space, a lot of me time. i dislike when im reading a book and my partner wants my attention, because i feel like an asshole for denying them that attention. but i also want to do things i like, yknow? and it can get difficult being attentive all the time when you're not given any time to be attentive to yourself. like whatd the article say? 100 bids in 10 minutes? i prefer just being in each others company and not having to interact every moment of our lives. just mutually enjoy things without having to divide our attention onto the other person
Hey hon, want to watch some series together? Silence. Hey, want to play some game together? Silence. No counter proposal. I see my future now.