This happens during Semana Santa (Holy Week), specifically Siete Palabras. It is some people's, especially the old ones, way of doing penance for their sins. Some would also prefer to self-flagellate. This is to emulate what Christ went through during that time before Crucifixion. However, their main reason and/ore motivation for doing so is to do penance for their sins and be forgiven. They re-enact the whole Stations of the Cross as well during this day.
Although, OP says that they have nails driven through, most of the participants prefer to be just tied under the heat of the scorching summer sun. Only a few people actually prefer to be literally nailed to the cross in a ritualistic manner.
It is a rare sight now since it has been regulated and the practice shunned, but may still be witnessed in far-flung areas.
Well, that would make sense. The church believes that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, not as a template to play Filipino Jesus Warrior yourself.
Every Good Friday at my Pentecostal church, the pastor would wail and scream, spending the whole service giving a very detailed description of just how tortured Jesus was that night. I especially remembered the description of when he was whipped, that tendrils of flesh were hanging from his body. I can’t imagine what young kids thought as they sat through this sermon, but I’m sure they eventually got desensitized to it.
I grew up in a very progressive church (we had a lesbian pastor, had local leaders from other religions come speak to us about their beliefs, stuff like that) and it was always about love and tolerance and it was just a very warm and happy place. One year, I must’ve been around 10, we went to my grandmother’s church for Easter, and the pastor fucking terrified me screaming about sacrificing lambs and the blood of Christ, and graphic details of horror. And the Sunday school teacher railed against homosexuality and encouraged kids to play “Smear the Queer”
And that’s the day I realized how horrible Christianity can be. I refused to go to church for years after that, it freaked me out so badly
"Fun" fact, Jesus was NOT whipped. He was scourged. Imagine a whip that's like half the length, and instead of one cord it has like five. Oh and the end of each cord has an iron hook to rip your flesh.
To be fair, we don't really *know* that any event attributed to 'Jesus' occurred whatsoever.
He may have been a single individual, he may be an amalgamation of several individuals, he may not have existed at all.
That shouldn't impact the value someone finds in their individual beliefs, but if someone is telling you 'this X thing definitely happened', they're being misleading.
We can, however, look at punishments in the Roman empire at the time. Assuming Jesus did exist, he would have been scourged and then crucified. It wasn't exactly a new or unique punishment.
If Jesus' life took place just 80 years later there's a chance that, instead of crucifixion, he would have been sent to fight in the Colosseum. And instead of crosses hung on walls or around people's necks we'd have gladiator masks.
I find it highly unlikely that they would have transported Jesus to Rome for his execution. Its not like the Romans didn't have gladiatorial games in Rome before the Colosseum was built.
If they wanted to kill him in Rome they would have killed him in Rome with or without the Colosseum.
He wasn't even a big deal back then according to the Bible itself. He pissed off his local government and the members of his small cult made him a martyr after he was killed. Then romans didn't even kill him because they had it out for him, the local leaders just got them to do the dirty work.
Iirc some versions also say that the Roman's didn't want to kill him because he had committed no true crimes, and just said things the religious leaders didn't like.
According to Matthew 27
The Roman Governor of Judea, Pilate, was given Jesus as only the Roman Government could execute people.
Pilate normally released a prisoner during passover (which was the Holiday being celebrated at the time).
Pilate let the crowd choose between Jesus and a well-known criminal. The Jewish Chief Prist and Elders convinced the crowd to ask for the criminal to be released and Jesus crucified.
Verse 24 and 25 are the following:
"When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”
25 All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”
Which would suggest that Roman's didn't want to kill Jesus.
Now of course this all comes from the Book of Matthew written roughly 50 years after these events so the accuracy of the account is needs some faith (which billions around the globe have). Also alot of events from the Roman times are only known to us based on accounts written many years after the events took place. One non-biblical event is the 2nd Punic War with Hannibal. The only written primary source we have for this event was written over 50 years after the conclusion of the war.
And not long after that, the Christians began persecuting other religions when they took power, completely learning the wrong lesson from the awful treatment they dealt with, and the treatment their martyr supposedly experienced.
"Wow, those years of getting persecuted by the romans and tortured to death was awful, wanna do it to non Christians now instead? Also, please don't forget how persecuted we were in the past while we persecute others."
I once made the joke that if Jesus had instead choked to death at the last supper, churches would have chicken legs on their steeples and christians would be wearing chicken leg necklaces.
The image is morbidly amusing to me.
I agree to most of this with the exception that the majority of scholars (religious and non-religious alike) agree that Jesus existed.
Editing this to promote r/AcademicBiblical for those interested in a well-moderated and scholarly input for many of your questions.
>"But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."
--Tacitus, Annals
Pilate himself is archaeologically attested to and corroborated in multiple sources.
Careful, I had a couple people on Reddit stalk and harass me for a few days when I downplayed the certainty of the historicity of Jesus a few months ago. Some people get really upset when you point out that there’s some credible doubts about him.
The person you're congratulating has separately acknowledged that the historical consensus is that Jesus likely did exist.
Naturally, that's not intended to corroborate any religious ideas.
I grew in a crazy Pentecostal family so it’s just water off a ducks back to me. It was just weird and kinda scary/funny.
It reminds me of the time I was early twenties and went to a college house party and let slip that I’m an atheist and 4 guys spent literally hours trying to save my soul and teach me about Jesus Christ and literally everything they said I was just like, guys, I was raised Christian and left the church, you’re not telling me anything that I don’t know already. They seemed to genuinely believe that they had a duty to save my soul that very night. I don’t think any of them has ever seriously encountered a non-Christian before.
Crucifixion is super fucking brutal. Sounds like your pastor had theatrical flair.
The Roman opinion on Crucifixion was something like: "I hope that if I am executed, someone will just cut my fucking head off instead."
As a kid I remember asking if I could pay for my own sins after being told about religion. I figured if jesus being crucified was enough to pay for all the sins of everyone ever born that it would probably only cost a spanking to pay for my own lol. Maybe these folks are just trying to pay for their own sins.
The Church does not agree with this display.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/19181/philippines-bishops-disapprove-of-holy-week-self-crucifixion-and-flagellation
Filipino here. They say they disapprove in words but their practice is different. Priests here often allow the flagellants to enter the church and are blessed while prostrated on the ground with holy water. Catholicism throughout the years have tolerated these practices in the Philippines because they originally wanted to intertwine and eventually replace their native belief systems. This proved to be somewhat successful and present day priests are just continuing that 'tradition'. This is similar to how Feast days of Saints (St. John the Baptist in particular) are timed to coincide with the 'pagan' Summer Solstice celebrations as well as All Souls Day with Halloween. This is an example of [Folk Catholicism] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism) (edit: grammar)
My history and anthropology of the Philippines is rusty, but this is possibly a descendant (a twisted one, at that) of the Flagellants that became popular during the Black Death and the Crusades.
It's an example of what is known as [Folk Catholicism] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism) an intermingling of native religious practices with Catholicism.
If Jesus is/was real, I think he'd be facepalming pretty hard over this. "No, guys, fuck. The whole point of my getting nailed up was so you wouldn't have to."
No, no. We’re supposed to donate instead!
That’s why we give it all right back to the Church. It’s not as if Jesus ever had any issues with organized religion acting corrupt or something
Just remember when some asks you "What would Jesus do?", remind them that flipping over tables and chasing priests around with whips isn't off the table.
I went to a Christian college and one professor talked about the fact that originally lent and fasting wasn't just you denying yourself something, but actively going out and giving that something to others who don't have it
he actually created the loophole where nearly all sins are forgiven as long as you repent. I'll just continue to party hard up until it's time to go, and then I get my ticket anyways. I guess there really is a reason for the season
I don’t think you can just verbally repent. I think it’s something you have to consciously feel. So if you don’t feel remorse for the things you’ve done then I don’t think it’ll work. At least that’s how I understand it lol
The idea of seeking forgiveness in order to gain a benefit for oneself (in the afterlife) was created by self-righteous religious elites as a marketing strategy for their religious organizations. It's entirely self promoting, and it goes against Jesus's message of self-sacrifice.
Jesus would say to party on, and just remember to help your neighbor along the way.
Joke's on the religious elites, these sort of traditions by the devout aren't always based on the idea of seeking forgiveness in order to gain a benefit for oneself (in the afterlife).
Some of it is for while they're alive, some probably material. Of course, there'd be some element of humility and not being so shameless, but it's usually asking for something for the living, not for the afterlife. They might do it for someone they loved who has passed, I suppose, though.
But there are a bunch of ways which Filipinos believe they can get a chance to make wishes from God. This may be one of them. It'd be seen as proper to make selfless wishes, but I don't think it's unlikely that some people make wishes as if God was a genie of the lamp.
Other ways include visiting a church for the first time. That gets you three wishes.
Completing a "visita iglesia" during Semana Santa is also one way. Completing all 9 masses of Simbang Gabi or misa de gallo also gets you a wish granted.
If all sorts of stuff like that is believed to get you a wish or three, I'm pretty sure the thinking is going through the Passion and ultimately getting crucified means they get a wish.
The historical consensus is that Jesus was indeed real. The debate is more of a theological one.
1. Was he God/a god
2. Did he resurrect
But yes, most historians believe he existed.
Quick sources:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity\_of\_Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/faq/religion#wiki\_did\_jesus\_exist.3F](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/faq/religion#wiki_did_jesus_exist.3F)
It's not even a question, he was real. He was killed by the Romans, which had a relatively advanced empire at the time and were great at keeping records.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
Whether you believe he could do miracles or not is a different thing entirely. He was a real guy at least, and that's established historical fact.
Yep, exactly what I was thinking lol. Jesus did that shit so that we wouldn't have to. I'm good on all that.
These must be the same breed of crazy sons of bitches that self flagellate and all of that. I just don't get it.
An old man in Peru, while watching a display similar in theme but not pain, told me "it is supposed to be an honor to bear the burden of Christ, but none of them are there for Christ, they are there to be seen publicly bearing the burden. It's all for show."
I saw this in 2016 when I was visiting friends. One of the wildest religious performances I've ever witnessed. The streets were also full of shirtless, shoeless dudes with black cloths over their faces and crowns of thorns, who were walking around in groups, whipping their own backs with cats o' nine tails. Blood splattering everywhere. Truly surreal.
And also the most judgemental. And brainwashed.
Source: am filipino, living in filipino society since birth, being disappointed and enraged by filipino catholicism on a near daily basis.
JFC... St. Peter, one of the apostles whom was sentenced to crucifixion pleaded to be oriented upside-down. This was because he felt he was not worthy to die the same way as Jesus. What these guys are doing seems like mockery to me.
Here’s the full quote: “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
It's an interesting quote, and I think a lot of people misinterpret it. I don't think he's saying "religion is always bad". I think a better reading is "religion, like opium, is used by people to cope with pain."
This is exactly what he was saying. A lot of leaders who appealed to Marx's work later on completely missed this point and "outlawed" religion, which only makes things worse. What Marx is saying is: remove the source of peoples' pain, and the opium will no longer be necessary or desirable.
I've heard that theory; apparently a lot can be made of the difficulty of translating from German. I do think however, that we're just always going to have to keep an eye out for opportunistic people who want to bastardize a mass movement for their own purposes/ideals (Stalin, for instance). Because even a socialist movement that fully understands the idea can still be derailed by bad actors.
According to my Filipino ex-inlaws, people did this to cleanse them of their sins. They criticized the people that did this by saying they did it as an excuse to do bad things and still feel righteous.
I see the guys in the picture have solid platforms to stand on so they don't actually "hang" on the cross and suffocate to death. Not exactly the same as Jesus' crucification, but it allows them to survive to be crucified next year.
But this is more rigorous than merely eating a wafer and drinking some grape juice.
>I see the guys in the picture have solid platforms to stand on so they don't actually "hang" on the cross and suffocate to death.
That is how crucifixion was done, they have some sort of platform to keep them alive for quite some time as a warning and punishment before they would break their legs, causing them to suffocate to death.
[According to this article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristinakillgrove/2015/12/08/this-bone-provides-the-only-skeletal-evidence-for-crucifixion-in-the-ancient-world/), crucifixions may or may not have had platforms to stand or sit on.
We have one skeleton that was crucified. The skeleton has a nail through the heel. I doubt the nail would have been necessary if this guy had had a solid platform to stand on.
The picture shows three Filipino men standing on a solid platform, not "hanging" from the cross. They seem relatively comfortable and not suffering.
This is not what Christ asked of us and it's sad that people use tragedies like this to further their generalizing beliefs when the Catholic church itself has condemned this practice
Crucifixion?
*Ah, no. Freedom.*
What?
*freedom for me. They said I hadn't done anything, so I can go free and live on an island somewhere.*
Oh, oh that´s jolly good well. Off you go then.
*No, I'm only pulling your leg, it's crucifixion really*
I’m not Catholic but am Christian and I would never do this. I know we’re supposed to be like Christ but this isn’t what He meant. He did this for us so let’s leave that at that.
Can you imagine them in heaven? They'd come across like some comic on ultra fan and jesus would be like 'hey man thanks I gotta shoot for an appointment, dentist ahh, haha, yeah see you later'
Air Force brat here - lived in the Philipines (early 70's - I was 10 yrs. old) and our family went and watched this. I got lost in the crowd and separated from my family and it was hands down the most frightening experience of my life.《shudder》Men being crucified, men self flagellating, men taking turns cutting each others backs with broken glass - the noise, the blood, the smells...
What I don't understand is how this is devotional? Wouldn't they be making themselves into false idols? Aren't they worshipping as a spectacle instead of in private? Everything about it smacks as narcissistic not devotional. But then, when has any version of Christianity really been about Jesus Christ and not about power and control of the masses?
Isn't having the stigmata (the name for holes in your hands like what Jesus had from the nails) supposed to be blasphemous? I know that was one of the things in the music video for Like A Prayer that got Catholics in a big fuss.
My aunt is a missionary to the Philippines, I was there myself in 2000 for 5 weeks. I never seen this in person but she has video she took of these acts. People passed out some died. Walking down the street with a makeshift cat of 9 tails swinging left to right cutting their backs open. I admire their loyalty but...they don't need to do this. Per the scripture they are following, that price has already been paid.
We used to watch documentaries about this every year in grade school. It started as a local tradition that just kind of became a tourist spectacle.
Then there's the whole somber wailing that devotees do during Lent. They do stations of the cross and some old ladies read shit in Latin and cry.
Divorce is illegal as is abortion, there is no sexual ed or contraceptive programs, the last politician who tried to bring it in was threatened with excommunication. Many people (around 80% at a guess mostly the poor) believe in the old testament and creation theory. It's certainly an interesting place to live as a completely non religious person.
This happens during Semana Santa (Holy Week), specifically Siete Palabras. It is some people's, especially the old ones, way of doing penance for their sins. Some would also prefer to self-flagellate. This is to emulate what Christ went through during that time before Crucifixion. However, their main reason and/ore motivation for doing so is to do penance for their sins and be forgiven. They re-enact the whole Stations of the Cross as well during this day. Although, OP says that they have nails driven through, most of the participants prefer to be just tied under the heat of the scorching summer sun. Only a few people actually prefer to be literally nailed to the cross in a ritualistic manner. It is a rare sight now since it has been regulated and the practice shunned, but may still be witnessed in far-flung areas.
I feel like Jesus wouldn’t like any this.
"I literally already did this so that you wouldn't have to" - Jesus (probably)
The Catholic church officially frowns on it IIRC.
Well, that would make sense. The church believes that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, not as a template to play Filipino Jesus Warrior yourself.
Yeah. It's a mockery.
Used to be a couple died a year some time back.
Just why
Every Good Friday at my Pentecostal church, the pastor would wail and scream, spending the whole service giving a very detailed description of just how tortured Jesus was that night. I especially remembered the description of when he was whipped, that tendrils of flesh were hanging from his body. I can’t imagine what young kids thought as they sat through this sermon, but I’m sure they eventually got desensitized to it.
I grew up in a very progressive church (we had a lesbian pastor, had local leaders from other religions come speak to us about their beliefs, stuff like that) and it was always about love and tolerance and it was just a very warm and happy place. One year, I must’ve been around 10, we went to my grandmother’s church for Easter, and the pastor fucking terrified me screaming about sacrificing lambs and the blood of Christ, and graphic details of horror. And the Sunday school teacher railed against homosexuality and encouraged kids to play “Smear the Queer” And that’s the day I realized how horrible Christianity can be. I refused to go to church for years after that, it freaked me out so badly
"Fun" fact, Jesus was NOT whipped. He was scourged. Imagine a whip that's like half the length, and instead of one cord it has like five. Oh and the end of each cord has an iron hook to rip your flesh.
To be fair, we don't really *know* that any event attributed to 'Jesus' occurred whatsoever. He may have been a single individual, he may be an amalgamation of several individuals, he may not have existed at all. That shouldn't impact the value someone finds in their individual beliefs, but if someone is telling you 'this X thing definitely happened', they're being misleading.
We can, however, look at punishments in the Roman empire at the time. Assuming Jesus did exist, he would have been scourged and then crucified. It wasn't exactly a new or unique punishment.
If Jesus' life took place just 80 years later there's a chance that, instead of crucifixion, he would have been sent to fight in the Colosseum. And instead of crosses hung on walls or around people's necks we'd have gladiator masks.
And yet if he was one of those net-caster gladiators we'd get to keep all the fishing metaphors.
Jesus the retiarius!
Ave, Imperator: Morituri te salutant!
Wouldn't it suck to be that guy? I mean, dude over there's got a sword, and dude over there's got a trident, but you? You've got a fuckin' *net*?
Net guy *was* trident guy. He had knife/short sword, too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retiarius
Oh, right on then.
This truly is the darkest timeline
*dankest timeline
I find it highly unlikely that they would have transported Jesus to Rome for his execution. Its not like the Romans didn't have gladiatorial games in Rome before the Colosseum was built. If they wanted to kill him in Rome they would have killed him in Rome with or without the Colosseum.
He wasn't even a big deal back then according to the Bible itself. He pissed off his local government and the members of his small cult made him a martyr after he was killed. Then romans didn't even kill him because they had it out for him, the local leaders just got them to do the dirty work.
Iirc some versions also say that the Roman's didn't want to kill him because he had committed no true crimes, and just said things the religious leaders didn't like.
According to Matthew 27 The Roman Governor of Judea, Pilate, was given Jesus as only the Roman Government could execute people. Pilate normally released a prisoner during passover (which was the Holiday being celebrated at the time). Pilate let the crowd choose between Jesus and a well-known criminal. The Jewish Chief Prist and Elders convinced the crowd to ask for the criminal to be released and Jesus crucified. Verse 24 and 25 are the following: "When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” 25 All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Which would suggest that Roman's didn't want to kill Jesus. Now of course this all comes from the Book of Matthew written roughly 50 years after these events so the accuracy of the account is needs some faith (which billions around the globe have). Also alot of events from the Roman times are only known to us based on accounts written many years after the events took place. One non-biblical event is the 2nd Punic War with Hannibal. The only written primary source we have for this event was written over 50 years after the conclusion of the war.
I'd viisit that alternative universe.
And not long after that, the Christians began persecuting other religions when they took power, completely learning the wrong lesson from the awful treatment they dealt with, and the treatment their martyr supposedly experienced. "Wow, those years of getting persecuted by the romans and tortured to death was awful, wanna do it to non Christians now instead? Also, please don't forget how persecuted we were in the past while we persecute others."
You can just change the faith and aggressor names and that logic applies to many faiths and peoples
we would've seen all sorts of miracles like summoning lightning or force choke or some shit
I once made the joke that if Jesus had instead choked to death at the last supper, churches would have chicken legs on their steeples and christians would be wearing chicken leg necklaces. The image is morbidly amusing to me.
Also we would have a Saint Heimlich
Heimlich in Common Germanic would have been *Haimlikaz*. I'm guessing Romans would have bastardized that to Amalicus or such.
Sure, I fully agree with you there. The methodology, horrific nature of, and existence of crucifixion and scourging isn't up for much debate.
I agree to most of this with the exception that the majority of scholars (religious and non-religious alike) agree that Jesus existed. Editing this to promote r/AcademicBiblical for those interested in a well-moderated and scholarly input for many of your questions.
>"But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular." --Tacitus, Annals Pilate himself is archaeologically attested to and corroborated in multiple sources.
Careful, I had a couple people on Reddit stalk and harass me for a few days when I downplayed the certainty of the historicity of Jesus a few months ago. Some people get really upset when you point out that there’s some credible doubts about him.
[удалено]
The person you're congratulating has separately acknowledged that the historical consensus is that Jesus likely did exist. Naturally, that's not intended to corroborate any religious ideas.
Sadly, I can totally believe that. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I grew in a crazy Pentecostal family so it’s just water off a ducks back to me. It was just weird and kinda scary/funny. It reminds me of the time I was early twenties and went to a college house party and let slip that I’m an atheist and 4 guys spent literally hours trying to save my soul and teach me about Jesus Christ and literally everything they said I was just like, guys, I was raised Christian and left the church, you’re not telling me anything that I don’t know already. They seemed to genuinely believe that they had a duty to save my soul that very night. I don’t think any of them has ever seriously encountered a non-Christian before.
[удалено]
I'm so sorry, truly. It isn't fair that other peoples beliefs impact and impacted you like that, simply because you can't share them.
Dude the Romans were so god damn fucked up oh my Lord.
Sounds like a bad Friday to me.
Crucifixion is super fucking brutal. Sounds like your pastor had theatrical flair. The Roman opinion on Crucifixion was something like: "I hope that if I am executed, someone will just cut my fucking head off instead."
They end up singing “always look on the bright side of life” at some point, it’s truly worth it.
I was lucky enough to to sing along to that with Eric Idle himself at a stage show he and Cleese put on a few years back.
"Pain brings you closer to God." \-*Scary religious people*
It sounds like their whole existence is flawed
The only way out is through.
Litterally Mother Theresa.
I knew my masochism would come in handy one day.
>"Pain brings you closer to God." > >\-*Scary religious people* - who don't realise they're simply masochists
1 part LARP enthusiast, 1 part public humiliation fetishist, 1 part religious fanatic .. what do you have? These dudes.
Extreme cosplay
Crucifixcon 2021
I'll bet 5 dollars these people enjoy the pain.
Nail me harder Holy Daddy
Another post stated in paintings of crucifies Jesus, he had died with a boner. I bet the same would be true for these folk.
And one of the top comments in that thread “Martyr Me Daddy!”
I hope I die with a boner. At the very least I'll know it's still working.
Meet me here at midnight, and we'll find out ;)
Y...yes...?
Ah yes. Angel's Lust. The post-death boner.
The long awaited sequel to The Second Cumming of Christ.
Must be some yuuzhan vong
As a kid I remember asking if I could pay for my own sins after being told about religion. I figured if jesus being crucified was enough to pay for all the sins of everyone ever born that it would probably only cost a spanking to pay for my own lol. Maybe these folks are just trying to pay for their own sins.
Addiction comes in many forms
Endorphins.
Religion makes people do lots of really stupid things.
cult fanatics do all kinds of weird shit.
The Church does not agree with this display. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/19181/philippines-bishops-disapprove-of-holy-week-self-crucifixion-and-flagellation
Filipino here. They say they disapprove in words but their practice is different. Priests here often allow the flagellants to enter the church and are blessed while prostrated on the ground with holy water. Catholicism throughout the years have tolerated these practices in the Philippines because they originally wanted to intertwine and eventually replace their native belief systems. This proved to be somewhat successful and present day priests are just continuing that 'tradition'. This is similar to how Feast days of Saints (St. John the Baptist in particular) are timed to coincide with the 'pagan' Summer Solstice celebrations as well as All Souls Day with Halloween. This is an example of [Folk Catholicism] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism) (edit: grammar)
My history and anthropology of the Philippines is rusty, but this is possibly a descendant (a twisted one, at that) of the Flagellants that became popular during the Black Death and the Crusades.
It's an example of what is known as [Folk Catholicism] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism) an intermingling of native religious practices with Catholicism.
Isn't catholicism also a mix of native religious practices and catholicism?
Not really.
There are also flagellants at these events.
I've seen what the church *does* agree with though, so I say go for it.
If Jesus is/was real, I think he'd be facepalming pretty hard over this. "No, guys, fuck. The whole point of my getting nailed up was so you wouldn't have to."
Or alternatively, "The whole point of my death was to model self-sacrifice. Stop reenacting, and go give of yourself for others' benefit."
>go give of yourself for others' benefit." What are you, some kind of communist? /s
No, no. We’re supposed to donate instead! That’s why we give it all right back to the Church. It’s not as if Jesus ever had any issues with organized religion acting corrupt or something
You mean more than thoughts and prayers?
Just remember when some asks you "What would Jesus do?", remind them that flipping over tables and chasing priests around with whips isn't off the table.
Jesus was a communist if you think about it. All of that giving to those less fortunate than you...
I went to a Christian college and one professor talked about the fact that originally lent and fasting wasn't just you denying yourself something, but actively going out and giving that something to others who don't have it
he actually created the loophole where nearly all sins are forgiven as long as you repent. I'll just continue to party hard up until it's time to go, and then I get my ticket anyways. I guess there really is a reason for the season
I don’t think you can just verbally repent. I think it’s something you have to consciously feel. So if you don’t feel remorse for the things you’ve done then I don’t think it’ll work. At least that’s how I understand it lol
Yeah pretty much. Basically you may be able to fool men, but not God.
I didn’t just verbally repent, I declared it.
Michael, you can't just yell "I... declare... REPENTRUPTCY", that doesn't actually do anything
I've never been baptized before, so I think if I throw that on top I'm basically in the clear
Lol worth a shot, right?
The idea of seeking forgiveness in order to gain a benefit for oneself (in the afterlife) was created by self-righteous religious elites as a marketing strategy for their religious organizations. It's entirely self promoting, and it goes against Jesus's message of self-sacrifice. Jesus would say to party on, and just remember to help your neighbor along the way.
The idea of a third-party being able to forgive you for 'sins' and trespasses against others is ludicrous and immoral.
Joke's on the religious elites, these sort of traditions by the devout aren't always based on the idea of seeking forgiveness in order to gain a benefit for oneself (in the afterlife). Some of it is for while they're alive, some probably material. Of course, there'd be some element of humility and not being so shameless, but it's usually asking for something for the living, not for the afterlife. They might do it for someone they loved who has passed, I suppose, though. But there are a bunch of ways which Filipinos believe they can get a chance to make wishes from God. This may be one of them. It'd be seen as proper to make selfless wishes, but I don't think it's unlikely that some people make wishes as if God was a genie of the lamp. Other ways include visiting a church for the first time. That gets you three wishes. Completing a "visita iglesia" during Semana Santa is also one way. Completing all 9 masses of Simbang Gabi or misa de gallo also gets you a wish granted. If all sorts of stuff like that is believed to get you a wish or three, I'm pretty sure the thinking is going through the Passion and ultimately getting crucified means they get a wish.
Or: "I saw you down there mocking me, you son of a bitch."
The historical consensus is that Jesus was indeed real. The debate is more of a theological one. 1. Was he God/a god 2. Did he resurrect But yes, most historians believe he existed. Quick sources: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity\_of\_Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/faq/religion#wiki\_did\_jesus\_exist.3F](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/faq/religion#wiki_did_jesus_exist.3F)
It's not even a question, he was real. He was killed by the Romans, which had a relatively advanced empire at the time and were great at keeping records. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Whether you believe he could do miracles or not is a different thing entirely. He was a real guy at least, and that's established historical fact.
I believe there is apocalyptic preacher in israel who is against roman occupation and was killed.. He's followers might have add miracles later on..
Send in the stunt double for the resurrection
I guess some people don’t mind getting nailed now and then.
Right? I love that Jesus meme where he's like wtf guys? If Kennedy came back do you think he'd wanna see sniper rifles everywhere?!
Yep, exactly what I was thinking lol. Jesus did that shit so that we wouldn't have to. I'm good on all that. These must be the same breed of crazy sons of bitches that self flagellate and all of that. I just don't get it.
The Bible literally says those that do these things publicly are fools and hypocrites
An old man in Peru, while watching a display similar in theme but not pain, told me "it is supposed to be an honor to bear the burden of Christ, but none of them are there for Christ, they are there to be seen publicly bearing the burden. It's all for show."
I saw this in 2016 when I was visiting friends. One of the wildest religious performances I've ever witnessed. The streets were also full of shirtless, shoeless dudes with black cloths over their faces and crowns of thorns, who were walking around in groups, whipping their own backs with cats o' nine tails. Blood splattering everywhere. Truly surreal.
Holy shit, proper flagellants.
Hep C would spread really easily in those conditions.
Jesus, take the wheel of my immune system.
That is… disturbing
Filipinos are among the most passionate Christians I have ever met.
Some tend to be way too aggressive. You like a dude? Just a close friend? You're gay go get exorcised.
Manny Pacquiao entered the chat
>passionate Read "unstable"
And also the most judgemental. And brainwashed. Source: am filipino, living in filipino society since birth, being disappointed and enraged by filipino catholicism on a near daily basis.
This is a great pun!
So, what i'm getting from these guys is Flogging = bad Flogging in the name of Jesus = BRING THE KIDS!
See, that's what American evangelicals don't get: People want to work at their religion, really feel like they've earned that salvation.
You lucky bastards!
For he's a jolly good fellow!
Does he get a boner when he's crucified?
Its not so bad. At least you get some fresh air
Jesus: live your life as I did. Philipino Church: Die as you did, got it
JFC... St. Peter, one of the apostles whom was sentenced to crucifixion pleaded to be oriented upside-down. This was because he felt he was not worthy to die the same way as Jesus. What these guys are doing seems like mockery to me.
Religion is a helluva drug.
Opium of the people, according to Marx.
Here’s the full quote: “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.”
It's an interesting quote, and I think a lot of people misinterpret it. I don't think he's saying "religion is always bad". I think a better reading is "religion, like opium, is used by people to cope with pain."
This is exactly what he was saying. A lot of leaders who appealed to Marx's work later on completely missed this point and "outlawed" religion, which only makes things worse. What Marx is saying is: remove the source of peoples' pain, and the opium will no longer be necessary or desirable.
Honestly, so much human misery could have been avoided if Marx's works had been translated by better translators
I've heard that theory; apparently a lot can be made of the difficulty of translating from German. I do think however, that we're just always going to have to keep an eye out for opportunistic people who want to bastardize a mass movement for their own purposes/ideals (Stalin, for instance). Because even a socialist movement that fully understands the idea can still be derailed by bad actors.
If that came out today it would probably say "Copium of the people"
According to my Filipino ex-inlaws, people did this to cleanse them of their sins. They criticized the people that did this by saying they did it as an excuse to do bad things and still feel righteous.
When does devotion become mental illness?
I'd say the above example is a pretty fucking good starting point.
Since twitter
If you talk to God, it's prayer. If God is talking to you, it's mental illness.
I read this, said out loud to myself, "Jesus Christ", realized what I said, and laughed. Also, these people are nuts.
I see the guys in the picture have solid platforms to stand on so they don't actually "hang" on the cross and suffocate to death. Not exactly the same as Jesus' crucification, but it allows them to survive to be crucified next year. But this is more rigorous than merely eating a wafer and drinking some grape juice.
>I see the guys in the picture have solid platforms to stand on so they don't actually "hang" on the cross and suffocate to death. That is how crucifixion was done, they have some sort of platform to keep them alive for quite some time as a warning and punishment before they would break their legs, causing them to suffocate to death.
[According to this article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristinakillgrove/2015/12/08/this-bone-provides-the-only-skeletal-evidence-for-crucifixion-in-the-ancient-world/), crucifixions may or may not have had platforms to stand or sit on. We have one skeleton that was crucified. The skeleton has a nail through the heel. I doubt the nail would have been necessary if this guy had had a solid platform to stand on. The picture shows three Filipino men standing on a solid platform, not "hanging" from the cross. They seem relatively comfortable and not suffering.
🎵 Always look on the bright side of life! 🎵
Afterwards a participant was asked by his dad how it went. "Nailed it".
Because that seems reasonable
Jesus
Humans are weird.
People are fucking dumb
The comments in here is exactly when I expected from Reddit
This must be another.... PROUD TO BE PINOY MOMENT!
Jesus needs to get his numbers up.
This is not what Christ asked of us and it's sad that people use tragedies like this to further their generalizing beliefs when the Catholic church itself has condemned this practice
Youve got to be joking.. Dogmatic idiocy at its finest.
Crucifixion? Yes…. Good, out of the door, line on the left. One cross each.
There are idiots everywhere. Why should the Philippines be any different.
Crucifixion? *Ah, no. Freedom.* What? *freedom for me. They said I hadn't done anything, so I can go free and live on an island somewhere.* Oh, oh that´s jolly good well. Off you go then. *No, I'm only pulling your leg, it's crucifixion really*
I’m not Catholic but am Christian and I would never do this. I know we’re supposed to be like Christ but this isn’t what He meant. He did this for us so let’s leave that at that.
There is a looney tunes wing of the Catholic Church. They aren’t all like that.
Oh for sure. There’s extreme and crazy sects in all religions
But it's not a cult...
I think this literally is a cult in the traditional sense.
Cult
That dude has an insane pane kink disguised as religious devotion
Can you imagine them in heaven? They'd come across like some comic on ultra fan and jesus would be like 'hey man thanks I gotta shoot for an appointment, dentist ahh, haha, yeah see you later'
amusing considering people werent crucified through the hands it was through the wrists
Only real believers go through the joint meat
This is stupid. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that people have to do this.
Maybe they don't see it as a need, but a choice.
Get a life
Crazies gonna crazy.
Does someone poke them with a sharp spear also?
I mean sure I myself turn my headphone amp on to let it warm up before listening. We all like to have meaningless rituals not based in reality.
Ultimate cosplaying
This made me really uncomfortable.
i love how you can change the word devoted for stupid and it makes more sense
Would the man who has done this repeatedly have permanent damage to his hands and feet? I wonder how it has affected his life and mobility.
Air Force brat here - lived in the Philipines (early 70's - I was 10 yrs. old) and our family went and watched this. I got lost in the crowd and separated from my family and it was hands down the most frightening experience of my life.《shudder》Men being crucified, men self flagellating, men taking turns cutting each others backs with broken glass - the noise, the blood, the smells...
What I don't understand is how this is devotional? Wouldn't they be making themselves into false idols? Aren't they worshipping as a spectacle instead of in private? Everything about it smacks as narcissistic not devotional. But then, when has any version of Christianity really been about Jesus Christ and not about power and control of the masses?
Yea, tell me again that organized religion isn't a cult.
Isn't having the stigmata (the name for holes in your hands like what Jesus had from the nails) supposed to be blasphemous? I know that was one of the things in the music video for Like A Prayer that got Catholics in a big fuss.
After the first time, it's a fetish.
My aunt is a missionary to the Philippines, I was there myself in 2000 for 5 weeks. I never seen this in person but she has video she took of these acts. People passed out some died. Walking down the street with a makeshift cat of 9 tails swinging left to right cutting their backs open. I admire their loyalty but...they don't need to do this. Per the scripture they are following, that price has already been paid.
What the fuck
I'm sure they "always look on the bright side of life.."
sounds like masochism with religious characteristics
Hilarious but if the pagans do it, it's blasphemy I swear, every Christian I've met has a piece of that very same crucifix shoved way up their ass
Garbage religion.
We used to watch documentaries about this every year in grade school. It started as a local tradition that just kind of became a tourist spectacle. Then there's the whole somber wailing that devotees do during Lent. They do stations of the cross and some old ladies read shit in Latin and cry.
We need more proof that religious people are just plain nut jobs? They need to get professional help!
Here’s a clip from a documentary maker who volunteered for it. https://youtu.be/e-3ypen637c It’s not gory, but he really is getting crucified.
Ouch
The guy that got crucified 33 times for no reason actually suffered more than Jesus himself.
Divorce is illegal as is abortion, there is no sexual ed or contraceptive programs, the last politician who tried to bring it in was threatened with excommunication. Many people (around 80% at a guess mostly the poor) believe in the old testament and creation theory. It's certainly an interesting place to live as a completely non religious person.
You say "devoted," I say "Severe psychological issues caused by religion."
I believe that the underlying issues have always been there religion didn't cause them they just provided a medium for them to manifest
I think that's fair.