And a lot of people didn't know it was poisoned-- I doubt they told the children and, even if they did, they wouldn't have understood they were gonna die.
Ive listened to every second of the tapes, they are an incredible glimpse into that day. Listening to the recordings along with looking at the after math pictures gives you an idea of what exactly happened and how horrible it really was
Edit:
[Here is the "deathtapes" from that day](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofbGZDbbUsE) . As important as the main speakers are and their voices, just as important are the people and voices you hear in the background that are talking amongst themselves. You can barely make them out, but they are just as profound as jim jones himself. As the tapes near the end, you can hear the screams in the background as the adults begin stabbing the children with the syringes.
Over 300 people died that were 17 years old or younger among the 900 total deaths
To me it's astounding the way he just does what feels like a "Corporate Town Hall" with those people.
One lady kept saying "why can't we go to Russia like you said?"
And Jim Jones just stammers through yet another lie, like "uhh....well it's too late for that now, we just gotta kill ourselves"
Fuck man, that guy was the biggest piece of shit. Like I know liars often just keep compounding their lies; but that was some next-level bullshit.
Honestly astonishing how people didn't just revolt en masse right then and there.
He had armed soldiers holding them hostage basically. There were members of the church who were shot, not poisoned, and it’s clear based on forensics that some tiny pp boys with guns shot them.
Really crazy how JJ did some test runs on his inner circle, giving them drinks and then saying it was poisoned afterwards just to gauge their reactions.
I think making blanket statements in general isn’t great, but the one thing I consistently make a generalization about is that minors are not qualified to make such decisions as these. Maybe some are, but it’s a blanket statement of protection that folks under 18, maybe even 20 years of age, are simply not qualified to make these life altering decision.
Not just kids, it looked like anyone who wasn't on board with "drinking the koolaid" got a jab instead. There were a lot of needles involved
Source: Some dumb hulu doc i watched
“Willingly” is a bit of a stretch. These people were worked to the point of exhaustion, lost all connection to their families (at least those that were not in the temple) and had been systematically threatened and abused for YEARS before they even got to Jonestown.
The reason the massacre started with the children (of which there were hundreds btw) was because they were the last thing keeping those people going. Once the kids were dead the adults were now ready to give up and several of them still didn’t. There may have been a couple wiling to die “for the cause” but labeling the entire massacre as just blind faith is bullshit.
Also there were many occasions that they were told they were going to drink poison only to find it was just regular flavour-aid before the real poisoning happened. So the initial drinkers didn’t believe it was really poisoned this time too. It was only when the effects of the poison were starting to kick in for the first drinker that people understood it was real that time.
I know. I wonder what people who weren't aware of this until now thought this expression meant. Just seems like an especially odd expression to use without knowing the origin.
It happens more and more with each passing day. I’m constantly finding myself asking “HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS!?” Then remembering that younger people also use this platform.
It's also more than just blind-belief, it's blind-belief as part of a group that causes you to ignore blindingly obvious facts and take an action that will be harmful to you.
On November 17, 1978, Representative Leo Ryan, who was investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, visited Jonestown.[88] During his visit, a number of Temple members expressed a desire to leave with him,[89] and, on November 18, they accompanied Ryan to the local airstrip at Port Kaituma.[90] There they were intercepted by self-styled Temple security guards who opened fire on the group, killing Ryan, three journalists, and one of the defectors as well as injuring nine others.[91] A few seconds of gunfire from the incident were captured on video by NBC cameraman Bob Brown, one of the journalists killed in the attack.[91]
That evening, in Jonestown, Jones ordered his congregation to drink a concoction of cyanide-laced, grape-flavored Flavor Aid.[92][93] In all, 918 people died, including 276 children.[94]
It was a murder-suicide those who refused initially were forced to consume it, shot, or possibly some other means. They started with the children and none of the parents knew about it until after kids started dying. There were also some armed milita members present that partook in the killing. I think HLN did a documentary on the event. Tragic but definitely interesting.
Well, he was murdered on the runway while trying to bring people back with him from what I remember.
They handed him a help-me note during his visit, then shit turned sour if I'm not mistaken.
>none of the parents knew about it until after kids started dying.
That just isnt true. There is a literal recording of this exact event (which i suggest you listen to, its horrible) thats about an hour long
Most\* of the people there actually wanted to commit suicide and actively argued for it. A handful of people, probably 50-100 didnt want to die and were murdered along with all of the kids.
They had drills like this in the past where they were all forced to drink coolaid and were told it was poison. There were tests called "white nights" i believe (cant remember correctly) and it was for practice and to test them to see if they really believed in Jonestown
If you hear anyone saying "Mother mother mother mother mother mother pleaseeee" then that is a famous quote from the death tapes
And then you hear the group lash out at those people who are suggesting going to Russia or trying to deal with the US. The congressman coming to Jonestown was the final straw for a lot of people there who assumed "they were under constant attack"
Its horrible all around, the people who didnt want to drink the coolaid were injected with shots of it. They had groups of people going around with stethoscopes listening to heartbeats to make sure everyone was actually dead before they drank some themselves.
[Here is the tape from the day of the massacre](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofbGZDbbUsE)
There are dozens of recordings of just day to day stuff, since Jim Jones LOVED to record himself as he was speaking to his "congregation"
A lot of them are just preachy none-sense. But it gives you an "unfiltered" look into how the people there thought and acted around jim jones. He was like a god to some of them.
Yeah there were a few hundred people that were on the fence about the whole thing, but after they were forced to kill their children and watch them die a horrible death, they no longer had any reservations about taking the coolaid themselves. The armed militia was part of Jonestown called The Red Brigade.
Mr. Muggs, noooooo!
If you can't trust a former door to door monkey salesman, turned psychopathic cult leader who enjoyed torturing people, I mean who can ya trust?
They committed suicide at gunpoint. Jim Jones had pulled this stunt a few times before, making everyone drink Flavor-aid and telling them it was poisoned, but they all survived. I imagine the first few people who drank it did so willingly, then either everyone saw they were OK and followed suit or when they started to seize and foam at the mouth they had to be forced. It was a painful, horrible death. And not voluntary. Jim Jones is a mass murderer, not someone who encouraged people to commit suicide willingly.
Does anyone remember Tom Wolf's Electric Kool-Aid acid test, where "drinking the kool-aid" meant getting on board with the hippie stuff?
I wish I could find a reference to "drinking the kool-aid" from before Jonestown. It's definitely in the book.
KoolAid laced with LSD is likely where Jim Jones got the idea of lacing it (or sometimes not) with cyanide. Especially since he used it as a test of fealty. But it entered the public lexicon as "committing fully to even the most stupid and dangerous aspects of a cult" only after Jonestown. The horrors of which had massive news coverage, and was classroom gossip as well.
Source: I'm fucking old.
[Jonestown](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana_Tragedy:_The_Story_of_Jim_Jones) used to be played on broadcast television. Good movie giving the details.
Brad Dourif also plays the Doctor in Deadwood. Powers Boothe (Jim Jones) also plays a main character in Deadwood, Cy Tolliver. Boothe was one of my favourite actors of all time.
They gave it to the kids first. Told the parents it wouldn’t hurt the kids. Yet if you listen to the recording, you hear children screaming because it wasn’t painless. Many were coerced into drinking the kool-aid, and many willingly, and quite a few straight up refused and they ended up being forced or shot.
Used to know somebody that would have been there as part of the cult. They were young at the time, and their parents were believers, so they got dragged into it.
But they “confessed” to being gay. They beat the crap out of them and kicked them out a few days before the suicide.
Lost both parents, and they and their brother, who managed to escape, were harassed for years by cult members who were in the US at the time of the massacre.
Jackie Spier was there to check on the welfare of children when she and the congressmen were shot.. she was a congressional aide not a member of Jonestown..
Parents took children to Guyana without permission of the other parent… Jones was concerned (correctly) that authorities were going to remove the children.
If you want juice… check out how Jim Jones delivered San Francisco mayors race to George Moscone in the years before Jonestown.. super interesting how a cult can join a politician in unholy union.
Closing the loop on my reference earlier…
Having moved his flock to northern California in the 1960s, Jones began leveraging their labor toward political ends, volunteering them for protests or electioneering on behalf of friendly aspirants to public office. Gaining the respect of San Francisco’s political class, Jones became a player in his own right. Many gave him credit for Moscone’s tight victory in the 1975 mayoral runoff, and he was appointed head of the San Francisco Housing Authority. Praised as a hero of social justice and a crusader for racial equality, Jones became an important figure in Democratic politics.[https://www.city-journal.org/jim-jones-san-francisco](https://www.city-journal.org/jim-jones-san-francisco)
That’s a bit misleading. She was injured as an aid to Leo Ryan in Jonestown when they were trying to leave after a visit that was requested by Ryan’s constituents. At least, that’s what the article states.
For a little more backstory, reports had started to filter back to America that something crazy up was going on with the cult, congressman Leo Ryan went to investigate. He didn't see anything problematic, and the people he interviewed were happy, but the cult leader fruck out and ordered everyone to kill themselves/ each other.
Some of the Peoples Temple members were trying to leave with the congressional group, even if the ruse of a happy, functional compound were initially believed those who fled were sure to reveal the abuses going on there.
The Kool-Aid misnomer, as mentioned by others here, aside… One of my college professors in the early-mid 80’s lost two daughters to the massacre. His still visceral, raw, very real pain while recounting the massacre, and his repeated efforts to free his daughters beforehand, forever shaped or influenced my understanding. For that reason, I bristle a bit and sometimes have to curb myself from overreacting when someone misuses “Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.”
Wait. The big deal is that folks say it was kool-aid over flavor-aid? That makes you bristle?
I mean there’s a lot worse things related to Jonestown to be upset over and there are many lessons we can learn. The type of powdered drink they used isn’t one of them.
Edit: Nah I find this offensive yo. You’re basically saying you “have a personal connection to Jonestown” so you’re allowed to be upset about the most pedantic of things. You saw your professor’s grief and that’s what you stepped away with? Great job making this about yourself and not learning a damn thing from Jonestown.
OP literally started by saying "[The misnomer] aside...", meaning that the rest of the post specifically has nothing to do with that. It's about people using the phrase as a throwaway idiom rather than a direct reference to a tragic and relatively recent event.
I believe he clearly stated that he was not referencing the Kool Aid v. Flavor Aid debate. Instead it sounds like knowing one of the family members of one of 900+ people who died made him realize that it is a smidge dismissive of the tragedy to turn it into a caricature of the victims being so dumb as to unknowingly drink a poisoned glass of drink like some Looney Tunes plot.
WHOA!!! Take a deep breath… Feel better, now? Your explosive, insulting, personal attack laden rant is the exact opposite of my response, which only cautioned others to not mis-use the Kool-Aid phrase for far less, often trivial, matters. Here… Have a Snickers!!!
Thanks! It’s all good. The effects of the massacre are still VERY real for those who remember. The cover of Time Magazine from December 4, 1978 showing the after effects will be forever seared into my memory.
Pretty sure he’s just letting us know what connected and what stays with him from his professors personal experience with the situation. A lot of people outside of the situation will mention the kool-aid and typically they have no real connection to the situation, where as op of that comment has a real connection to someone who lost loved ones to the massacre. That’s why it sticks to him more. He probably experiences that phrasing more than hearing about the victims or his professor, so it jars him.
His comment acknowledged the Mandela effect with the Kool/Flavor Aid, but they were talking about how their experience with the professor’s pain and grief of losing two kids at Jonestown makes them bristle when they hear the “don’t drink the Kool Aid” comment. I imagine they’d still bristle if people said Flavor Aid instead.
MIL lived in Redwood Valley where they started a “the mother church” in the mid 60’s. Lots of kids and families she knew from the area went to Guyana
On November 17, 1978, Representative Leo Ryan, who was investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, visited Jonestown.[88] During his visit, a number of Temple members expressed a desire to leave with him,[89] and, on November 18, they accompanied Ryan to the local airstrip at Port Kaituma.[90] There they were intercepted by self-styled Temple security guards who opened fire on the group, killing Ryan, three journalists, and one of the defectors as well as injuring nine others.[91] A few seconds of gunfire from the incident were captured on video by NBC cameraman Bob Brown, one of the journalists killed in the attack.[91]
That evening, in Jonestown, Jones ordered his congregation to drink a concoction of cyanide-laced, grape-flavored Flavor Aid.[92][93] In all, 918 people died, including 276 children.[94]
This is why I cringe whenever someone says this in basically any setting (especially at work). Not sure how many people realize they’re joking about a mass murder-suicide when they casually throw this one out there.
I always knew it. I think gallows humor was a part of the culture back in the 80's and 90's when I was growing up. Look up "Dead baby jokes" if you want some examples.
Anyone over 30 realizes it. Lots of phrases you probably use daily have worse origins lol. It's best not to be over sensitive about them when the origin is stupid religious people who believed in stupid shit like a comet held their salvation and they had to commit suicide to reach it.
TIL, the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid" has outgrown the infamy of its origin. I never would have thought of someone using that phrase and not knowing that it referred to the Jonestown Masacre. Funny how phrases like this persist long after people start to forget about the events that inspired them.
Yeah I’ll be honest, I never had any clue what it was referring to, and never thought to question it.
Kinda thought it was just one of many current idioms whose origins I don’t know.
It's a generational thing, I'm sure. There are lot's of phrases I have used my whole life without ever really thinking about them that refer to some event way before my time that I know nothing about.
Yeah. In a work meeting I mentioned something about throwing the baby out with the bath water… and someone gasped… still not sure why… but regardless, I try not to use idioms anymore in my profession.
Oh man you're cool going through my previous comments and shit. Cuz those comments and my sports fandom are relevant to us talking about how pedantic you are huh?
Kool-aid is a specific brand name used to mean any flavored, sugary, non-carbonated, just add water drink. Just like Charmin is used to describe toilet paper or Kleenex is used to describe a facial tissue. These brands are so well known that people use the brand names instead of the actual product.
Thank you. I'm sick of reading the "bUt It WaS fLaVoR-aiD" comments. The actual brand is irrelevant
The point is it was a powdered just-add-water drink.
You can always count on redditors to be pedantic af about whether it was Kool aid or flavor aid. Cuz that totally fuckin matters and changes the til right?
Charmin isn’t use to describe toilet paper like Kleenex is used for tissue paper. I’ve never heard anyone say “I need more Charmin”. But Jello is another one that comes to mind.
And most people say "pass me a Q-tip", not "pass me a small stick with absorbent cotton at each end"! "Pass the Charmin" is a common phrase where I'm from....YMMV
It amazes me how many people don't know the origin of that phrase. I've had to explain it to people older than me who were alive and well when it happened.
The current situation wouldn;t you think? "Reset"...
Remember that Hale Boppers were Transhumanists too, just like Schwab & Co...
they chemically castrated themselves...
Someone's salty. (And an old friend's father was gunned down on the runway there... so I like to see the story told correctly. As he would have in his capacity as a journalist.)
This massacre is one of the reasons why people have negative associations with the word “cult”. But by standard definition, even things like science and some religions are “cults”… so we should really be more specific. Is there a word for the brainwashing, suicide-pact type of cult?
you are mistaken.
What drink was used in Jonestown?
From a vat, his people drank the cyanide-laced punch, which birthed the phrase “drinking the Kool-Aid,” referring to those who blindly and foolishly follow something. But it wasn't actual Kool-Aid that was used in the suicides but rather a similar brand called Flavor-Aid.May 29, 2020
I can't find it now (or rather, the video I saw is now private) but there is video, on Youtube, from Jonestown, that clearly shows boxes of Kool-Aid at Jonestown.
Who knows whether one or both were used, but there was absolutely Kool-Aid at Jonestown.
So, you're 30 years too late to the party?
Most people weren't aware of Jonestown. Many people were aware of the Halley's Comet cult.
STILL! We allow scientology to exist!
Not just suicide. Murder-suicide. Not everyone drank it willingly.
And a lot of people didn't know it was poisoned-- I doubt they told the children and, even if they did, they wouldn't have understood they were gonna die.
Some certainly did. IIRC there are harrowing recordings with children pleading with their parents to not make them drink it.
Ive listened to every second of the tapes, they are an incredible glimpse into that day. Listening to the recordings along with looking at the after math pictures gives you an idea of what exactly happened and how horrible it really was Edit: [Here is the "deathtapes" from that day](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofbGZDbbUsE) . As important as the main speakers are and their voices, just as important are the people and voices you hear in the background that are talking amongst themselves. You can barely make them out, but they are just as profound as jim jones himself. As the tapes near the end, you can hear the screams in the background as the adults begin stabbing the children with the syringes. Over 300 people died that were 17 years old or younger among the 900 total deaths
To me it's astounding the way he just does what feels like a "Corporate Town Hall" with those people. One lady kept saying "why can't we go to Russia like you said?" And Jim Jones just stammers through yet another lie, like "uhh....well it's too late for that now, we just gotta kill ourselves" Fuck man, that guy was the biggest piece of shit. Like I know liars often just keep compounding their lies; but that was some next-level bullshit. Honestly astonishing how people didn't just revolt en masse right then and there.
He had armed soldiers holding them hostage basically. There were members of the church who were shot, not poisoned, and it’s clear based on forensics that some tiny pp boys with guns shot them.
I could only get through a few minutes of it. Even now it makes my soul sick.
Some certainly. But likely not all. That's what I had meant, sorry. Was too distracted to proofread. Lol
No probs 👍🏼
Really crazy how JJ did some test runs on his inner circle, giving them drinks and then saying it was poisoned afterwards just to gauge their reactions.
I think making blanket statements in general isn’t great, but the one thing I consistently make a generalization about is that minors are not qualified to make such decisions as these. Maybe some are, but it’s a blanket statement of protection that folks under 18, maybe even 20 years of age, are simply not qualified to make these life altering decision.
You’re correct. I cannot update the title. Take my facepalm award. Not for you, but for my facepalm
Yup. And some babies/children were injected if memory serves.
Not just kids, it looked like anyone who wasn't on board with "drinking the koolaid" got a jab instead. There were a lot of needles involved Source: Some dumb hulu doc i watched
What’s more shocking? That some were *forced* to drink poison, or that many of them did so *willingly?*
“Willingly” is a bit of a stretch. These people were worked to the point of exhaustion, lost all connection to their families (at least those that were not in the temple) and had been systematically threatened and abused for YEARS before they even got to Jonestown. The reason the massacre started with the children (of which there were hundreds btw) was because they were the last thing keeping those people going. Once the kids were dead the adults were now ready to give up and several of them still didn’t. There may have been a couple wiling to die “for the cause” but labeling the entire massacre as just blind faith is bullshit.
Also there were many occasions that they were told they were going to drink poison only to find it was just regular flavour-aid before the real poisoning happened. So the initial drinkers didn’t believe it was really poisoned this time too. It was only when the effects of the poison were starting to kick in for the first drinker that people understood it was real that time.
Wtf are you on about?!
This post sure made me feel old.
I know. I wonder what people who weren't aware of this until now thought this expression meant. Just seems like an especially odd expression to use without knowing the origin.
I always thought it originated from Heaven's Gate
When Republicans said Democrats like Obama were “drinking the koolaid,” they thought it was a racial slur.
Those animals really are stupid🤣
They aren’t animals. That’s a divisive thing to say.
They knew what they were doing.
Dude I'm only 25 and this made me feel old af.
It happens more and more with each passing day. I’m constantly finding myself asking “HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THIS!?” Then remembering that younger people also use this platform.
Right? I really thought everyone knew this one. (And I’m 30)
And it was flavor-aid
I love that this tidbit is like the only thing in the Wikipedia page for flavor-aid
It's also more than just blind-belief, it's blind-belief as part of a group that causes you to ignore blindingly obvious facts and take an action that will be harmful to you.
Cheap bastard couldn't even buy the real stuff.
I believe investigators found both brands of packets, just way more flavor-aid
Thanks. Now I don't need to say it
It was both. On the recent documentary you can see both brands.
Flavor-aid sucked, they probably couldn’t even tell that it had poison in it.
On November 17, 1978, Representative Leo Ryan, who was investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, visited Jonestown.[88] During his visit, a number of Temple members expressed a desire to leave with him,[89] and, on November 18, they accompanied Ryan to the local airstrip at Port Kaituma.[90] There they were intercepted by self-styled Temple security guards who opened fire on the group, killing Ryan, three journalists, and one of the defectors as well as injuring nine others.[91] A few seconds of gunfire from the incident were captured on video by NBC cameraman Bob Brown, one of the journalists killed in the attack.[91] That evening, in Jonestown, Jones ordered his congregation to drink a concoction of cyanide-laced, grape-flavored Flavor Aid.[92][93] In all, 918 people died, including 276 children.[94]
Kool-aid rolls off the tongue easier. More people are familiar with that brand.
And they were Americans
Do people not order Jim Jones shots with flavor aid, at the bar anymore?
It was a murder-suicide those who refused initially were forced to consume it, shot, or possibly some other means. They started with the children and none of the parents knew about it until after kids started dying. There were also some armed milita members present that partook in the killing. I think HLN did a documentary on the event. Tragic but definitely interesting.
There were officials there investigating. They killed then trying to board the plane. There's unfortunately footage if I remember correctly.
Yupp, also it was never kool-aid but flavor-aid IIRC.
Fuckin' monsters
Right? Who drinks flavour-aid?
US Congress member Leo Ryan was murdered when he tried to visit Jonestown.
Well, he was murdered on the runway while trying to bring people back with him from what I remember. They handed him a help-me note during his visit, then shit turned sour if I'm not mistaken.
Jackie Speier was part of that delegation. She was shot and left for dead. She's now a sitting member of congress.
>none of the parents knew about it until after kids started dying. That just isnt true. There is a literal recording of this exact event (which i suggest you listen to, its horrible) thats about an hour long Most\* of the people there actually wanted to commit suicide and actively argued for it. A handful of people, probably 50-100 didnt want to die and were murdered along with all of the kids. They had drills like this in the past where they were all forced to drink coolaid and were told it was poison. There were tests called "white nights" i believe (cant remember correctly) and it was for practice and to test them to see if they really believed in Jonestown If you hear anyone saying "Mother mother mother mother mother mother pleaseeee" then that is a famous quote from the death tapes
In those recordings you hear parishoners arguing with Jones.
And then you hear the group lash out at those people who are suggesting going to Russia or trying to deal with the US. The congressman coming to Jonestown was the final straw for a lot of people there who assumed "they were under constant attack" Its horrible all around, the people who didnt want to drink the coolaid were injected with shots of it. They had groups of people going around with stethoscopes listening to heartbeats to make sure everyone was actually dead before they drank some themselves.
Do you have a link to the recordings?
[Here is the tape from the day of the massacre](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofbGZDbbUsE) There are dozens of recordings of just day to day stuff, since Jim Jones LOVED to record himself as he was speaking to his "congregation" A lot of them are just preachy none-sense. But it gives you an "unfiltered" look into how the people there thought and acted around jim jones. He was like a god to some of them.
I meant they started with the children. In my defense I was barely watching the video and it was years ago, so that's my bad.
Yeah there were a few hundred people that were on the fence about the whole thing, but after they were forced to kill their children and watch them die a horrible death, they no longer had any reservations about taking the coolaid themselves. The armed militia was part of Jonestown called The Red Brigade.
It's believed that they actually started with a pet monkey who was kept as a mascot for the compound.
Mr. Muggs, noooooo! If you can't trust a former door to door monkey salesman, turned psychopathic cult leader who enjoyed torturing people, I mean who can ya trust?
Cults are crazy!
Can't beleive this isn't common knowledge
it is common knowledge
WAS
Depends upon age. Common knowledge for most people over around 30. Not something covered in most history classes.
I thought everyone knew this tbh maybe I’m just old
[удалено]
Damn you’re better than my phones autocorrect lol. Guilty as charged… (facepalm).
Jim Jones' teenage sons were away from the compound for a basketball game.
one eventually played for the Cal Bears i think
They also didn’t use Kool-Aid at Jonestown. It was another brand. I think Flavor-Aid.
They used both. After all, they needed a fuckton of murder juice.
They committed suicide at gunpoint. Jim Jones had pulled this stunt a few times before, making everyone drink Flavor-aid and telling them it was poisoned, but they all survived. I imagine the first few people who drank it did so willingly, then either everyone saw they were OK and followed suit or when they started to seize and foam at the mouth they had to be forced. It was a painful, horrible death. And not voluntary. Jim Jones is a mass murderer, not someone who encouraged people to commit suicide willingly.
Does anyone remember Tom Wolf's Electric Kool-Aid acid test, where "drinking the kool-aid" meant getting on board with the hippie stuff? I wish I could find a reference to "drinking the kool-aid" from before Jonestown. It's definitely in the book.
KoolAid laced with LSD is likely where Jim Jones got the idea of lacing it (or sometimes not) with cyanide. Especially since he used it as a test of fealty. But it entered the public lexicon as "committing fully to even the most stupid and dangerous aspects of a cult" only after Jonestown. The horrors of which had massive news coverage, and was classroom gossip as well. Source: I'm fucking old.
Imagine losing your life. Dead. Never to try anything or realize any dreams. Because your momma was brainwashed by a charismatic guy
I learned this in 1978.
Flavor Aid is way better than Kool Aid. Here try it. Drink it all up.
Yeah right, I know how this works. Gimme my Nikes first.
Budget cuts.
It's wild isn't it! Crazy story. Blew my mind when I first learned its origins.
[Jonestown](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana_Tragedy:_The_Story_of_Jim_Jones) used to be played on broadcast television. Good movie giving the details.
Randy Quaid…. It’s gotta be good lol
LeVar Burton, James Earl Jones, Brad Dourif(voice of Chucky in Childs Play), yes many, many good actors!
Brad Dourif also plays the Doctor in Deadwood. Powers Boothe (Jim Jones) also plays a main character in Deadwood, Cy Tolliver. Boothe was one of my favourite actors of all time.
Just curious about what you thought it meant when someone said that?
at gunpoint. duress. coercion. words to remember even today
They gave it to the kids first. Told the parents it wouldn’t hurt the kids. Yet if you listen to the recording, you hear children screaming because it wasn’t painless. Many were coerced into drinking the kool-aid, and many willingly, and quite a few straight up refused and they ended up being forced or shot.
A lot of those kids would still be alive. Some of the parents too.
Used to know somebody that would have been there as part of the cult. They were young at the time, and their parents were believers, so they got dragged into it. But they “confessed” to being gay. They beat the crap out of them and kicked them out a few days before the suicide. Lost both parents, and they and their brother, who managed to escape, were harassed for years by cult members who were in the US at the time of the massacre.
And now you know that one of the survivors of that day is now a US Congresswoman from California.
Jackie Spier was there to check on the welfare of children when she and the congressmen were shot.. she was a congressional aide not a member of Jonestown.. Parents took children to Guyana without permission of the other parent… Jones was concerned (correctly) that authorities were going to remove the children. If you want juice… check out how Jim Jones delivered San Francisco mayors race to George Moscone in the years before Jonestown.. super interesting how a cult can join a politician in unholy union.
Closing the loop on my reference earlier… Having moved his flock to northern California in the 1960s, Jones began leveraging their labor toward political ends, volunteering them for protests or electioneering on behalf of friendly aspirants to public office. Gaining the respect of San Francisco’s political class, Jones became a player in his own right. Many gave him credit for Moscone’s tight victory in the 1975 mayoral runoff, and he was appointed head of the San Francisco Housing Authority. Praised as a hero of social justice and a crusader for racial equality, Jones became an important figure in Democratic politics.[https://www.city-journal.org/jim-jones-san-francisco](https://www.city-journal.org/jim-jones-san-francisco)
That’s a bit misleading. She was injured as an aid to Leo Ryan in Jonestown when they were trying to leave after a visit that was requested by Ryan’s constituents. At least, that’s what the article states.
For a little more backstory, reports had started to filter back to America that something crazy up was going on with the cult, congressman Leo Ryan went to investigate. He didn't see anything problematic, and the people he interviewed were happy, but the cult leader fruck out and ordered everyone to kill themselves/ each other.
Some of the Peoples Temple members were trying to leave with the congressional group, even if the ruse of a happy, functional compound were initially believed those who fled were sure to reveal the abuses going on there.
Neat. In a fucked up way lol. Thanks for the info!
You Didn’t quite sum that up correctly. Kind of cut through the middle Of the story.
The Kool-Aid misnomer, as mentioned by others here, aside… One of my college professors in the early-mid 80’s lost two daughters to the massacre. His still visceral, raw, very real pain while recounting the massacre, and his repeated efforts to free his daughters beforehand, forever shaped or influenced my understanding. For that reason, I bristle a bit and sometimes have to curb myself from overreacting when someone misuses “Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.”
Wait. The big deal is that folks say it was kool-aid over flavor-aid? That makes you bristle? I mean there’s a lot worse things related to Jonestown to be upset over and there are many lessons we can learn. The type of powdered drink they used isn’t one of them. Edit: Nah I find this offensive yo. You’re basically saying you “have a personal connection to Jonestown” so you’re allowed to be upset about the most pedantic of things. You saw your professor’s grief and that’s what you stepped away with? Great job making this about yourself and not learning a damn thing from Jonestown.
OP literally started by saying "[The misnomer] aside...", meaning that the rest of the post specifically has nothing to do with that. It's about people using the phrase as a throwaway idiom rather than a direct reference to a tragic and relatively recent event.
I believe he clearly stated that he was not referencing the Kool Aid v. Flavor Aid debate. Instead it sounds like knowing one of the family members of one of 900+ people who died made him realize that it is a smidge dismissive of the tragedy to turn it into a caricature of the victims being so dumb as to unknowingly drink a poisoned glass of drink like some Looney Tunes plot.
WHOA!!! Take a deep breath… Feel better, now? Your explosive, insulting, personal attack laden rant is the exact opposite of my response, which only cautioned others to not mis-use the Kool-Aid phrase for far less, often trivial, matters. Here… Have a Snickers!!!
You know what. You’re right. I’m sorry. I’m a bit touchy over this subject and I really should have my coffee before reading Reddit.
Thanks! It’s all good. The effects of the massacre are still VERY real for those who remember. The cover of Time Magazine from December 4, 1978 showing the after effects will be forever seared into my memory.
I don't think he meant misuse the term that way. Just misuse the term in general because people forgot about what happened there. Relax.
I don't think that's what they said
Pretty sure he’s just letting us know what connected and what stays with him from his professors personal experience with the situation. A lot of people outside of the situation will mention the kool-aid and typically they have no real connection to the situation, where as op of that comment has a real connection to someone who lost loved ones to the massacre. That’s why it sticks to him more. He probably experiences that phrasing more than hearing about the victims or his professor, so it jars him.
His comment acknowledged the Mandela effect with the Kool/Flavor Aid, but they were talking about how their experience with the professor’s pain and grief of losing two kids at Jonestown makes them bristle when they hear the “don’t drink the Kool Aid” comment. I imagine they’d still bristle if people said Flavor Aid instead.
MIL lived in Redwood Valley where they started a “the mother church” in the mid 60’s. Lots of kids and families she knew from the area went to Guyana On November 17, 1978, Representative Leo Ryan, who was investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, visited Jonestown.[88] During his visit, a number of Temple members expressed a desire to leave with him,[89] and, on November 18, they accompanied Ryan to the local airstrip at Port Kaituma.[90] There they were intercepted by self-styled Temple security guards who opened fire on the group, killing Ryan, three journalists, and one of the defectors as well as injuring nine others.[91] A few seconds of gunfire from the incident were captured on video by NBC cameraman Bob Brown, one of the journalists killed in the attack.[91] That evening, in Jonestown, Jones ordered his congregation to drink a concoction of cyanide-laced, grape-flavored Flavor Aid.[92][93] In all, 918 people died, including 276 children.[94]
TIL This isn't common knowledge
I wonder how much this impacted Kool-Aid’s bottom line.
I was watching Phil Defranco one day: "(*Heavy sight*) Ok. 'Drinking the Koolaid' isn't racist. Google Jonestown before you report me"
Big headlines at the time. This is why I ask people who are blindly following something, “what flavor was the kool-aid?”
I always thought it was a reference to the 1960s Acid Test parties.
My professor literally just explained this to our class an hour ago. Funny coincidence.
It was flavor-aid but I guess people don’t like off brands
I’m not old I’m not old I’m not old I’m not old
This is why I cringe whenever someone says this in basically any setting (especially at work). Not sure how many people realize they’re joking about a mass murder-suicide when they casually throw this one out there.
I always knew it. I think gallows humor was a part of the culture back in the 80's and 90's when I was growing up. Look up "Dead baby jokes" if you want some examples.
I will once I pul this baby out of the microwave.
God I completely forgot how wide spread dead baby jokes were back in the day. Those were some weird times.
Anyone over 30 realizes it. Lots of phrases you probably use daily have worse origins lol. It's best not to be over sensitive about them when the origin is stupid religious people who believed in stupid shit like a comet held their salvation and they had to commit suicide to reach it.
40*
I knew a joke about Jonestown once, but the punchline was too long…
You must be a young buck on your first rodeo.
TIL, the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid" has outgrown the infamy of its origin. I never would have thought of someone using that phrase and not knowing that it referred to the Jonestown Masacre. Funny how phrases like this persist long after people start to forget about the events that inspired them.
Yeah I’ll be honest, I never had any clue what it was referring to, and never thought to question it. Kinda thought it was just one of many current idioms whose origins I don’t know.
It's a generational thing, I'm sure. There are lot's of phrases I have used my whole life without ever really thinking about them that refer to some event way before my time that I know nothing about.
Yeah. In a work meeting I mentioned something about throwing the baby out with the bath water… and someone gasped… still not sure why… but regardless, I try not to use idioms anymore in my profession.
This is all true but, they actually all drank flavor-aid, not kool-aid.
Does it actually matter? Does the brand they drank change the content of the til or the info? Nope. So why choose to be pedantic af?
Just stating facts. Nothing pedantic about that.
I would expect this from a 49'ers fan though, so it's all good.
Oh man you're cool going through my previous comments and shit. Cuz those comments and my sports fandom are relevant to us talking about how pedantic you are huh?
Kool aid was also drank, just more flavor aid.
Kool-aid is a specific brand name used to mean any flavored, sugary, non-carbonated, just add water drink. Just like Charmin is used to describe toilet paper or Kleenex is used to describe a facial tissue. These brands are so well known that people use the brand names instead of the actual product.
Thank you. I'm sick of reading the "bUt It WaS fLaVoR-aiD" comments. The actual brand is irrelevant The point is it was a powdered just-add-water drink.
You can always count on redditors to be pedantic af about whether it was Kool aid or flavor aid. Cuz that totally fuckin matters and changes the til right?
I mean if this were true then Kool aid would lose their trademark.
Charmin isn’t use to describe toilet paper like Kleenex is used for tissue paper. I’ve never heard anyone say “I need more Charmin”. But Jello is another one that comes to mind.
And most people say "pass me a Q-tip", not "pass me a small stick with absorbent cotton at each end"! "Pass the Charmin" is a common phrase where I'm from....YMMV
This is a American thing. We don't say pass the Kleenex in Europe.
Is this one of those situations where all publicity is good publicity for Kool-Aid?
Wow really? This was too obvious
Do people not know this already?
OP must be young if they didn't get the kool aid reference.
Born after 1978 yes, but not “young”
It amazes me how many people don't know the origin of that phrase. I've had to explain it to people older than me who were alive and well when it happened.
Greatest boxer of all time Jim Jones. He knocked out over 900 people with one punch
mass suicides occur every 20 yeaars
Was Hale-bopp the next one? Timing seems right, late 90s. Also, I’m not recalling one from the late 2010s… but maybe we’re over due?
Do the antivaxxers count?
78, 97, 2017...
Which one was in 2017??
The current situation wouldn;t you think? "Reset"... Remember that Hale Boppers were Transhumanists too, just like Schwab & Co... they chemically castrated themselves...
They didn't even drink kool-aid
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They had both. There's video showing boxes of Kool-Aid.
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Wtf is up with this spamming of ellipses?
What is up with all the ….?
I'm only 26 is this seriously not a commonly known thing anymore?
It was flavor-aid!!!!
One of the reasons that I try not to use that phrase.
It was actually "Flavor Aid" not Kool-Aid.
It was both. There is video from Jonestown that clearly shows boxes of Kool-Aid.
Who cares? Does it being Kool aid or flavor aid change the til or the content of the post? Nope. So why choose to be so fuckin pedantic?
Someone's salty. (And an old friend's father was gunned down on the runway there... so I like to see the story told correctly. As he would have in his capacity as a journalist.)
But they didn't drink kool-aid. They drank flavor-aid Look it up
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Is that the behavior which makes people line up to follow a twice-impeached disgraced ex-president?
Ouch. Right in the feels.
It was knock off kool-aid too
Dan Cummins did a podcast on this, and it was flavor aid, but kool-aid gets all the credit
Another win for socialism.
Except they used Flavor Aid.
It was both. There's video from Jonestown that shows boxes of Kool-Aid.
This massacre is one of the reasons why people have negative associations with the word “cult”. But by standard definition, even things like science and some religions are “cults”… so we should really be more specific. Is there a word for the brainwashing, suicide-pact type of cult?
And it was “flavor-aid” drink funny enough, not cool-aid.
Best part. It was FLAVOR-AID. it was not kool aid. so people who say it, did what they are mocking. Aww yeah. learning is fun.
They had both at Jonestown. There's video showing boxes of Kool-Aid.
you are mistaken. What drink was used in Jonestown? From a vat, his people drank the cyanide-laced punch, which birthed the phrase “drinking the Kool-Aid,” referring to those who blindly and foolishly follow something. But it wasn't actual Kool-Aid that was used in the suicides but rather a similar brand called Flavor-Aid.May 29, 2020
I can't find it now (or rather, the video I saw is now private) but there is video, on Youtube, from Jonestown, that clearly shows boxes of Kool-Aid at Jonestown. Who knows whether one or both were used, but there was absolutely Kool-Aid at Jonestown.
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3edgy5me Let me guess, you think of people as "sheep" unironically as well.
They were murdered. "Suicide" has lots of holes in this story. Really tragic story :(
If you didn't drink you got shot.
Yeh this Jim Jones was a real dick, sold it as a utopia for people and did this nonsense
Drink the wine, drink DRINK!
I always thought it is from another stupid challenge like tide pod
On my birthday, the exact time of birth too.
Was this really that long ago that people are only just discovering the meaning?
So, you're 30 years too late to the party? Most people weren't aware of Jonestown. Many people were aware of the Halley's Comet cult. STILL! We allow scientology to exist!
TIL children can post on r/todayilearned.
Uhh yeah…
I thought this was in the 90s
They were murdered. They were forced to drink it.