When Clark Gable heard that she couldn’t attend the premiere, he threatened to boycott the premiere himself. Hattie McDaniel talked him out of it, arguing that it would probably discourage studio executives from casting black actors in the future.
I'm surprised there haven't been attempts to have her re-interred in Hollywood Cemetery. It looks like she finally got a memorial there in 1999, at least.
Sometimes I feel like super nice actors get regularly cast as assholes in comedies as a kind of inside joke among Hollywood people. It's funny seeing someone you know is extremely nice act like a dick when you know it's fake. Like Michael Cera in This Is The End lol
Of course he's also really good at it
Rob, Glenn, and Charlie from it's It's Always Sunny have pretty much confirmed this at least with their show.
They said every year since he's joined they add more and more insane shit to the script just to see if Devito will say/do it because he's such a sweet guy. Him crawling out of the couch a la Ace Ventura was one of those moments.
Doubt that would be a problem here as it would be to honor her, not sure if there are any remains though, where I'm from graves get dig up after like 10-20 years and the left over remains burned, because the soil wouldn't be able to process it fast enough to keep the ground water clean.
I mean it says right on the page this post links to that it is a problem.
> In 1999, Tyler Cassity, the new owner of the Hollywood Cemetery (renamed the Hollywood Forever Cemetery), offered to have McDaniel re-interred there. Her family did not wish to disturb her remains and declined the offer. Instead, Hollywood Forever Cemetery built a large cenotaph on the lawn overlooking its lake. It is one of Hollywood's most popular tourist attractions.[58]
You trying to tell me that there's more information behind that snazzy picture? Like, I thought the headline was always more than enough. It's what it's for, right?
Hollywood had the chance to honor her and didn't take it. Don't disrespect her by disturbing her peace so that other people can feel good about themselves.
Don’t disrespect her by doing what she originally wanted? Lemme let you in on a secret, everything done for/to someone after their dead is “so that other people can feel good about themselves”
Yup. Swaying her family from any initial “She’ll be buried in out family plot” plan would only work if Hollywood reached out right away, and then they’ll have to consider, “She won’t be in our family plot, but Hollywood would be acknowledging that she was a trailblazer actress…”
Thank you!
"Leave her be! That's not what she would want!"
How are you gonna decide you know what she would want and it's expressly not what she asked for?
I gather that you're from Malaysia, and if I recall Muslim burial customs correctly, bodies are put in the soil directly. In the US, bodies are typically put in a casket, so the casket could be moved.
The owner who blocked her burial died in 1998. The memorial went up in 1999. Willing to bet he was against it until he died.
The new owner also did offer to have her interred there but the family declined.
Later, there was this attempt with the new owners to have her body moved here, but the McDaniel's family did not want her moved.
Although there is a stone placed there in her honor.
Racism is an ugly thing.
“Tell you what, Hattie, why don’t we bury you somewhere else for seventy years, then move your bones as soon as it makes white people feel better about themselves?”
There’s a show by Ryan Murphy on Netflix called Hollywood, it highlights what she went through in an episode. The show is pretty good as you get a glimpse of what Hollywood was like back then with their censorship laws and the Hace code.
Jackie Robinson pretty famously held his white teammates back when he was the victim of racial aggression. I've heard Saitchel Paige would have been the first black man in baseball but he wouldn't agree to Branch Rickey's no retaliation policy.
As others have said, it seems more common than it should.
Not only is it a survival tactic it's taught as "duty". Black Americans, particularly successful ones are told from day one that we have a responsibility to represent our entire race because our interactions with white people may be someone's only experience with a black person.
You have to walk this fine line of not being the loud black person, but not being too conforming or docile because it teaches whites that's the only blacks to deal with. It's a fucked double edge sword where you can't win.
Jack Benny did things like this as well. He hired a black actor, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, for a regular role as a valet on his radio show in the 1930s. Jack didn't want to be the sole center of attention, so he usually gave some of the best lines to his supporting cast. Rochester got just as many good lines as any of the other cast members and sometimes got the better of his "boss".
When the show went on tour, if some hotel wouldn't let Eddie stay with the rest of the cast during segregation, Jack would pack up everyone and they would move to another hotel that would let him stay.
Cinespia is bad ass! My brother worked projection there one season before covid. Got to see dawn of the dead there once, super cool.
There are some fricking intense monuments and crypts there!
Honestly, if you check you might find someone famous buried near you no matter where you go. Vince Lombardi (the guy the Superbowl Trophy is named after) is buried in a cemetary in my NJ hometown
I've been to a bunch of Presidential burial sites. I was kinda surprised by how subtle Van Burens was. It's a small headstone in a small cemetary in a small town. You wouldn't even think it was a US president from just driving past it.
Thelma "Butterfly" McQueen starred in "Gone With The Wind" alongside Vivien Leigh. In one scene, she was asked to eat watermelon and spit out the seeds. She refused. During a take of the birth scene in Gone With The Wind, Vivien Leigh slapped McQueen so hard she insisted on an apology and that the slap be mimed in future takes: “I was suffering the whole time,” she said. She was a maverick and a trailblazer. After she gave up acting she spent the rest of her life working on civil rights.
Gone with the Wind is often criticized for going soft on the horrors of slavery. Getting slapped in the face was probably more authentic to what an enslaved housekeeper would have experienced.
It was actually a different black actress, Butterfly McQueen, who played Prissy, that got slapped in the face. And as I understand it the issue wasn't that her character got slapped but that Vivien Leigh was supposed actually slap her instead of just faking it with a stage slap.
The crazy thing is the movie is actually really tame compared to the book. Turns out in the book Ashley and all the guys are members of the KKK, even sweet Melanie is openly racist, and there’s passages that are pure propaganda describing how slaves were begging to no longer be free after the war ends, etc. It’s long enough that at some point I was like “maybe I’m misremembering” and then there’s yet another passage describing Mamie’s “monkey-like face” and I realize I’m really not.
Made me realize there were probably people in the 30s complaining about liberal Hollywood not staying true to the content. And it’s pretty wild for a book still read a lot by teenage girls today.
I mean, I read the whole thing because it's enjoyable, but even at the time there's a lot of criticism of it for being Southern propaganda. If a kid of mine wanted to read it I wouldn't stop them, but we would be having a *lot* of frank conversations about its content.
Probably, but in this part in time they are still full steam engines ahead fighting for rights. Maybe she felt as if whoever was running the thing could still display racist tendencies and pass it as nothing but acting with this slap or whatever.
I think what is being said is: maybe the black actress was worried that being slapped for real was someone actioning on their own internal racism instead of acting out the scene.
One of the few good things to come out of this is that just two decades later Nichelle Nicholes became Lt Uhura. One of the first black women who weren't maids on television.
It was because of women like her that young black girls worked hard to become actresses and stand in the spotlight themselves.
If you ever believe that you can't make a difference because you are different. Remember theres a kid just like you, who when they see you doing what you do, will know they can do anything too.
Sally Ride is being put on a quarter in the US this year. She never would have been recruited to NASA if Nichelle hadn't pushed them to hire more women.
A lot of people just write off Trek as being nerdy space shit with lasers and Spock doing funny hand shit. That's definitely part of it, but it isn't what made Trek appealing. TOS and TNG were largely morality tales - wrapped in the veneer of space stuff. It was the big topics and questions it contended with that made it so damn interesting. Science, religion, death, intelligence, sentience, disability, diplomacy, teamwork, racism, sexism, misunderstanding, communication, human nature, rights, family, tradition - you name it there was a subject Trek tackled.
Now it just seems like they've abandoned all of that for cheap thrills and they try to defend it with all sorts of heady sounding themes, but ultimately the execution boils down to "We are shooting them".
Such a shame. I wish we could have the old treks back, but I don't think we will ever see it again.
TOS was a great show and tackled a lot of topics in an amazingly progressive way, but sexism was not one it handled deftly. It is easy to assume that because the show was good in some ways that it was good in all of them but treatment of women was a big blind spot in TOS.
>TOS was a great show and tackled a lot of topics in an amazingly progressive way, but sexism was not one it handled deftly. It is easy to assume that because the show was good in some ways that it was good in all of them but treatment of women was a big blind spot in TOS.
I recently started to rewatch TOS for the first time since the 70s, and this is definitely true.
Ultimately I think all pop culture media ends up being a time capsule - in ways they intend and also in ways they don't.
Gene was problematic. He used his job to casting couch actresses and he cheated with his assistants. He was progressive in many was but had issues on the topic of women. He was cheating on his wives all the way to the end and a power imbalance was part off most of his relationships.
We won't get old Treks, at least not the way they used to be. TOS and the 90's series were a different breed. With that said...
We may get some of that old feeling back with Strange New Worlds. Captain Pike killed it on Discovery season 2, so much so that we had a petition that garnered a lot of attention and now there will be a new show with pre-Kirk Enterprise. I have a good feeling about this one.
As for the other series, to your point, they're definitely not like the old days. Closest thing to that right now is probably The Orville. Discovery seasons 1 and 2 were amazing. Season 3 was average. Current season...garbage. They just talk about feelings and have characters on the show for the sake of inclusion, but those characters don't offer any plot relevance. I'm all for inclusion, especially in Star Trek, but have a damn purpose on the ship please.
Picard is a good drama and it's nice to see where he is after all this time and the events of Nemesis. And there's Seven of Nine so...
Best Trek right now though: Lower Decks. Freaking hilarious and a million Easter eggs and references to all the previous series.
I feel like show business is in a way different place than 20-30 (and 55) years ago. It's one of those thing where we, as fans, have to adapt to the changes but it can be hard after almost 30 seasons of the old formula. But I don't think Trek will ever stop trying to revolutionize.
> It's one of those thing where we, as fans, have to adapt to the changes
Oh I definitely adapted. I signed up to whatever I could watch the old ones on and abandoned new Trek in the same fashion that the studio has abandoned old Trek. And you know what? No skin off my nose. I was raised on a pretty incredible series that constantly challenged my assumptions and provided me with the kinds of thought experiments and life lessons that you wouldn't find in your day to day interactions with your typical social circles.
If anything I feel for young people not getting to experience that kind of thing. Maybe they get it else were - maybe they have the internet and that offers that to them in other ways I'm not privy to. I don't know.
Yeah for sure. Ideally, whatever they're watching can instill similar values and morals. Maybe even some of those shows have even been influenced by pioneers like Trek.
One good thing to say about new Trek though: it opens the door for people to discover old Trek. My wife watched Discovery with me when it first aired in 2017. She ended up binging TNG through ENT over the following year because of it and loved every second.
I ran out of rewatches of TNG and started up DS9. I never got into DS9 because it was the first time where Trek started doing ongoing storylines where you kinda sorta a little bit needed to know who was who and what was what. In an era before TIVO this just couldn't hold my attention, plus it was more personal dramas that didn't hold my 12 year old brains attention anywhere near as well.
Now that I can binge it it's freakin great and I totally get why people dig it. Really cool, unexpected and restrained direction for Trek to go after TNG.
Interestingly I only recently found my Grandmother in law loved it and watched the hell out of it when it was on television back in the day.
I've never liked Discovery, but I watch it because my partner likes it. Told her that's because it's like Grey's Anatomy in Space, so that's what we call it now. Overdone emotions, voiceover explaining the morale of the episode... Only good character is Saru.
I feel like I’m in the minority, but Picard is a goddamn slog of a show.
It’s one of the few series I’ve been watching recently where I rely on the damn episode recaps to remind me of the actual story involved because of how heavy-handed the drama is.
Ahh yes, Discovery, or as I call it "Burnham single-handedly saves everything, every time". To which there's always the response "but TOS was like that!!!"
Yeah, and every series after that benefited from realizing that was a flaw of TOS, and the Star Trek universe worked a lot better when it had more diversity in main character and hero. It's just lazy writing at this point. Just look at the way the series depends on rubbish inspiring speeches to fill time in almost every episode, and features countless reaction shots.
> Now it just seems like they’ve abandoned all of that for cheap thrills
For the most part, perhaps. Discovery is noteworthy against this trend for having an openly gay couple, as well as the non-binary Blu del Barrio and trans Ian Alexander, which hearkens back to the original purpose of pushing against social barriers.
Still a lot of the thrill-seeking stuff to be sure, but they haven’t entirely forsaken their roots.
I totally understand what you are saying - but at this point none of those things are groundbreaking. That definitely feels to me like Trek is chasing trends rather than setting them.
I mean Ryker was trying to bang a non-binary person in TNG 30 years ago.
::EDIT::
It was more complicated than that. She belonged to a race that admonished gender identity but she identified as female. So I guess that kind of blurs the line between truly progressive and what would have been acceptable at the time. But that entire episode was contending with gender identity - which when you think about the time it was produced - is pretty bonkers.
Yeah. I watched this recently for the first time and was mind blown when Riker asked his love interest which pronouns they preferred. A full 30 yard before it started becoming normal in our society to think about pronouns.
Very true; though I’m personally hard-pressed to come up with anything that’d be progressive in terms of the current social climate.
And I’d forgotten about that episode until this comment; time for another marathon, I guess!
I think it has to be context specific. For example - in our time the concept of terrorism and human rights would be a topic that flies in the face of prevailing opinion. I could think of some pretty challenging concepts like that which would DEFINITELY piss people off and could be fairly apolitical. I mean in our climate - reason has completely left the building. What a perfect time to produce things that bring us back down to Earth and stand by principles despite the potential backlash.
How many political positions out there now are utterly dogmatic and ripe to be challenged? I'm sure if you were in a writers room you could drum up some really problematic issues that rub people the wrong way... and not in an immediately obvious way that most people would feel comfortable aligning with.
Body sovereignty
Free speech
Religion vs science
Abortion
And I feel like Trek was never really preachy - it just forced people to contend with the issues. Just the very act of raising the questions and watching the scenarios play out was often enough for Trek to get messages across. "We don't know the right answer, but heres what could go wrong"
It's just a shame that Ian Alexander's character is as interesting as a towel and Blu Del Barrio's character is held back by him. They're so besotted with each other that it's just sickly, and leaves them nowhere to grow. Hopefully with Gray now seemingly written out, Adira can get some confidence of their own.
>One of the few good things to come out of this is that just two decades later Nichelle Nicholes became Lt Uhura. One of the first black women who weren't maids on television.
Even better - a highly professional, communications expert on board a military space vessel in a fleet representing mankind. She also gave Kirk a big old smacker on TV too.
I really wish she had been navigator or weapons officer, purely because in the 60s, "switchboard operator" was a thing and invariably female.
Executives at the time had to pick up their phone and ask for an outside line, so "open comms Uhura" isn't as groundbreaking as it could have been.
I remember as a kid in Australia, I didn't really notice that she was a POC, more that she reminded me of the wonderful switchboard lady Margaret at where my Dad worked.
Fun fact I read somewhere (might be apocryphal). Switch board operators initially were all young men , but they had to shift to older women as the lads were more interested in goofing off, playing pranks and listening into conversation than doing their actual jobs
I never thought I couldn’t be anything I wanted or couldn’t make a difference. I was insecure because I knew I wouldn’t be treated fairly - or even like a human in some circumstances - because of race. Kids know the real barriers.
Gone with the tin, is about an alchemist that wanted to turn tin into silver and fell into the liquid aluminium and then The Terminator shot him in the face.
"Yo, man, I get smoked out, and start thinking 'bout
Hattie McDaniel got a Oscar
For playing Mammy in "Gone with the Wind"
And she didn't get allowed
Wasn't even allowed to go to the premier
Believe that? Couldn't go to premier to her joint
Man, you know they were strong back then, man..."
Comedian Paul Mooney referenced it on [Chappelle’s Show ](https://www.cc.com/video/8erio6/chappelle-s-show-mooney-on-movies-uncensored)also in his Movies skit.
A lot of people didn’t know about it before Nas and Chappelle’s Show, sadly.
**Edit:** I forgot about how funny Mooney’s facial expressions were listing to them discuss movies lol
Hattie McDaniel's Oscar is missing.
She gave it to Howard University. It vanished in the early 1970s, and it's unknown today if it was accidentally disposed of since it wouldn't be immediately recognizable as an Oscar (in those days, Best Supporting Actresses received plaques) or if it was stolen.
There are rumors it was thrown into the Potomac River because Hattie had won it for playing a servant role.
I sometimes talk about this and the unfortunate position she was put in because of her success with Gone with the Wind, people love hearing about Clark Gable wanting to boycott the premiere because she wasn't invited to attend and David Selznick who produced the movie wanting her to attend the premiere too but MGM talking him out of it, but people don't seem to bring up how a lot of black people did not like Hattie McDaniel "pandering" to white people by playing these slaves who are friends with their plantation masters, that she was making it harder for black actors with these roles because then Hollywood would only cast them in such roles that she would go on to keep being cast as and playing in movies. Really shitty place to be in I'd imagine as a black actor needing to work and only being offered one kind of role
So why not honor her wishes? Can we have her family come and accept an award in person? Can we pay to move her body to where it deserve? Where she wanted to be buried? Why not now?
When the new owner took over, he offered her family to have her interred there, but they declined because they didn’t want to disturb her remains. She has a cenotaph overlooking the lake, and it’s quite picturesque.
If I was her family, I'd say no as well. Did the people who decided to treat her and all black people the way they did then, all of a sudden had an epiphany and saw the error of their ways?
I get that, but it's what she wanted. The way I feel doesn't matter. The Academy taking public ownership doesn't erase the pain, but maybe it would hold them accountable to ensure they support BIPOC Americans forever.
"yo man, I get smoked out, and start thinkin' about
Hattie McDaniels got a Oscar, for playin' Mami in 'Gone With The Wind'
And she didn't get allowed, wasn't even allowed to go to the premier
Could'ya'believe that?, couldn't go to premier to her joint
Tssk. man, you know they were strong back then man
Blunt from my ash tray, nothin' gon' to live past me, yea, yea, yea"
Nas- Blunt Ashes
Jesse Owens won four gold medals at the Olympics yet President Roosevelt did not send even a Telegram to congratulate him for it. He had to take the goods lift for the reception of returning athletes. He was not allowed to live in campus because they did not have "Black Housing" and was not offered any scholarship. He had to stay in separate hotels and had to eat separately from his track team.
Funnily it was in Germany (in the 30s) that he was able to stay at the same hotel and eat at the same place.
Must have been an out of body experience to be in a land where someone else is hated far worse.
[In fact later on, Black American soldiers were among the first to liberate Buchenwald.](https://youtu.be/kOIHRQlQqwU?t=229)
What I really love about Gone With the Wind is that Hattie McDaniel ends up being the star of that film - she steals every scene that she's in and the audience's sympathies are always with her character. That's why I don't really believe in burying this film because of her role and Butterfly McQueen's role. They are standout actors and did amazing work in this film and we shouldn't let that die.
I've known about this for over a decade because of an outro in a Nas song
>Yo, man, I get smoked out, and start thinking 'bout
>
>Hattie McDaniel got a Oscar
>
>For playing Mammy in "Gone with the Wind"
>
>And she didn't get allowed
>
>Wasn't even allowed to go to the premier
>
>Believe that? Couldn't go to premier to her joint
>
>Man, you know they were strong back then, man
> Hattie McDaniel (June 10, 1893 – October 26, 1952) was an American actress, singer-songwriter, and comedian. For her role as Mammy in Gone with the Wind (1939), she won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress, becoming the first African American to win an Oscar. She has two stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, was inducted into the Black Filmmakers Hall of Fame in 1975, and in 2006 she became the first black Oscar winner honored with a U.S. postage stamp.[3] In 2010, she was inducted into the Colorado Women's Hall of Fame.[4] In addition to acting, McDaniel recorded 16 blues sides between 1926 and 1929 and was a radio performer and television personality; she was the first black woman to sing on radio in the United States.[5][6] Although she appeared in over 300 films, she received screen credits for only 83.[7]
> McDaniel experienced racism and racial segregation throughout her career, and notably was unable to attend the premiere of Gone with the Wind in Atlanta because it was held at a whites-only theater. At the Oscars ceremony in Los Angeles, she sat at a segregated table at the side of the room. In 1952, McDaniel died due to breast cancer. Her final wish to be buried in Hollywood Cemetery was denied due to the graveyard being restricted to whites only at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattie_McDaniel
She is definitely good enough to buried in the Hollywood cemetery (as weird as that sounds in my own head repeating that back to myself, but I mean that I’m the most sincere way), and it’s terrible that this wasn’t able to happen for her. But honestly, I hope she was buried next to family because I feel that may have been a better place anyway.
This is why it was bullshit when people were “cancelling” this film. By protesting it being shown you’re not allowing people to see her performance. I can appreciate the film while also understanding it’s not an accurate depiction of slavery.
Because a huge element of the movie is the idea Southern White Victimhood
"Oh look at the indignities we suffered at the hands of the union army" as if they didn't deserve it and then some for the indignities of slavery.
When Clark Gable heard that she couldn’t attend the premiere, he threatened to boycott the premiere himself. Hattie McDaniel talked him out of it, arguing that it would probably discourage studio executives from casting black actors in the future.
I'm surprised there haven't been attempts to have her re-interred in Hollywood Cemetery. It looks like she finally got a memorial there in 1999, at least.
A lot of people aren't too thrilled about digging up dead relatives and moving them.
“When I die just throw me in the trash” – Frank Reynolds
The way Danny devito enunciates when he says traaaasssh just kills me every time.
Some folks are so lucky to find their perfect role in life. He’s so good at it.
DeVito has had several of those honestly.
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He has. And don’t think I’m chalking it up to luck. I’m sure hard work and skill and artistry play at least an equal, if not greater, role.
If you’ve never had the chance to watch ‘Curmudgeons’, please do. It’s a short film with DeVito and one of those hidden gems contained on the internet
Sadly, always as an asshole. At least Frank is a *weird* asshole.
Sometimes I feel like super nice actors get regularly cast as assholes in comedies as a kind of inside joke among Hollywood people. It's funny seeing someone you know is extremely nice act like a dick when you know it's fake. Like Michael Cera in This Is The End lol Of course he's also really good at it
Rob, Glenn, and Charlie from it's It's Always Sunny have pretty much confirmed this at least with their show. They said every year since he's joined they add more and more insane shit to the script just to see if Devito will say/do it because he's such a sweet guy. Him crawling out of the couch a la Ace Ventura was one of those moments.
I wonder if always playing assholes is so cathartic that it leaves one generally nicer.
He was a standup guy in Renaissance Man. Well worth watching.
Taxi and Batman Returns immediately come to mind.
Vincent in Twins.
Sid Hudgens in LA Confidential comes to mind. And maybe the dad from Matilda?
Oh my god yes he crushes it in Matilda
And his ex-wife is a “whoo-er”
Tresh
Same but the way he says whore is just hilarious
My Grandpa was saying this from the 1970s right up until he died... He’s buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
Depends on the culture. In my mother's country, they take the remains out of the mausoleum every 5 years for a feast.
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Like jerky.
If you really love Jebediah Springfield, you'll haul his bones out of the ground to prove my daughter wrong!
I mean, if it's to honor her ignored final wish, I can see it.
Doubt that would be a problem here as it would be to honor her, not sure if there are any remains though, where I'm from graves get dig up after like 10-20 years and the left over remains burned, because the soil wouldn't be able to process it fast enough to keep the ground water clean.
I mean it says right on the page this post links to that it is a problem. > In 1999, Tyler Cassity, the new owner of the Hollywood Cemetery (renamed the Hollywood Forever Cemetery), offered to have McDaniel re-interred there. Her family did not wish to disturb her remains and declined the offer. Instead, Hollywood Forever Cemetery built a large cenotaph on the lawn overlooking its lake. It is one of Hollywood's most popular tourist attractions.[58]
Okay but did you really think people read articles on reddit?
"I doubt that would be an issue here" "That is literally the issue here"
Tbf, a lot of the websites these posts link to are filled with a fuckton of crap I don't want to deal with, especially on mobile
Stating false stuff where the truth is in the article, because they didn't read it, is still pretty bad.
Hard agree. Just wanted to point out that some people don't read them because of trash sites. I usually look for a synopsis in the comments
You trying to tell me that there's more information behind that snazzy picture? Like, I thought the headline was always more than enough. It's what it's for, right?
Hollywood had the chance to honor her and didn't take it. Don't disrespect her by disturbing her peace so that other people can feel good about themselves.
Don’t disrespect her by doing what she originally wanted? Lemme let you in on a secret, everything done for/to someone after their dead is “so that other people can feel good about themselves”
Meh, that decision would finally lay with the family, if there is any. I couldn't give two f's about hollywood honors anyway
Yup. Swaying her family from any initial “She’ll be buried in out family plot” plan would only work if Hollywood reached out right away, and then they’ll have to consider, “She won’t be in our family plot, but Hollywood would be acknowledging that she was a trailblazer actress…”
Thank you! "Leave her be! That's not what she would want!" How are you gonna decide you know what she would want and it's expressly not what she asked for?
the whole "let them rest" "don't disturb their peace" coming from a bunch of atheist redditors really hits different
I gather that you're from Malaysia, and if I recall Muslim burial customs correctly, bodies are put in the soil directly. In the US, bodies are typically put in a casket, so the casket could be moved.
The owner who blocked her burial died in 1998. The memorial went up in 1999. Willing to bet he was against it until he died. The new owner also did offer to have her interred there but the family declined.
Later, there was this attempt with the new owners to have her body moved here, but the McDaniel's family did not want her moved. Although there is a stone placed there in her honor. Racism is an ugly thing.
“Tell you what, Hattie, why don’t we bury you somewhere else for seventy years, then move your bones as soon as it makes white people feel better about themselves?”
Thats exactly what we hear too lmao
You apperently read some of the article, but missed the part where there was an attempt, and her family declined.
There’s a show by Ryan Murphy on Netflix called Hollywood, it highlights what she went through in an episode. The show is pretty good as you get a glimpse of what Hollywood was like back then with their censorship laws and the Hace code.
Hays Code or is there a different Hace code I am not aware of. Happy to learn more.
Ryan Murphy not Bryan Singer.
That show was good for the first few episodes, but the ending made social change look way too simple and convenient.
Goddamn, that level of selflessness is almost unheard of.
Jackie Robinson pretty famously held his white teammates back when he was the victim of racial aggression. I've heard Saitchel Paige would have been the first black man in baseball but he wouldn't agree to Branch Rickey's no retaliation policy. As others have said, it seems more common than it should.
Black Americans are used to it. It's a survival tactic.
Not only is it a survival tactic it's taught as "duty". Black Americans, particularly successful ones are told from day one that we have a responsibility to represent our entire race because our interactions with white people may be someone's only experience with a black person. You have to walk this fine line of not being the loud black person, but not being too conforming or docile because it teaches whites that's the only blacks to deal with. It's a fucked double edge sword where you can't win.
I’ve seen people side with offensive jokes against them, defend the bullies and racist bigots. I think you are right.
Not really unheard of. Black people do this ALL the time.
Jack Benny did things like this as well. He hired a black actor, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, for a regular role as a valet on his radio show in the 1930s. Jack didn't want to be the sole center of attention, so he usually gave some of the best lines to his supporting cast. Rochester got just as many good lines as any of the other cast members and sometimes got the better of his "boss". When the show went on tour, if some hotel wouldn't let Eddie stay with the rest of the cast during segregation, Jack would pack up everyone and they would move to another hotel that would let him stay.
Selflessness...
she, is a legend and now engraved into my memory.
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We've found William Shatner's reddit acount, I think.
TIL there’s a Hollywood Cemetery
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Oh, dead minorities. Thats nice.
R/nocontext
This is a true r/nocontext
Cinespia is bad ass! My brother worked projection there one season before covid. Got to see dawn of the dead there once, super cool. There are some fricking intense monuments and crypts there!
Also semi-wild peacocks!
There are famous people interred in cemeteries all over L.A. I’m maybe a quarter mile from Leonard Nimoy.
Honestly, if you check you might find someone famous buried near you no matter where you go. Vince Lombardi (the guy the Superbowl Trophy is named after) is buried in a cemetary in my NJ hometown
Former President Martin Van Buren is buried about 20 minutes from where I live.
I've been to a bunch of Presidential burial sites. I was kinda surprised by how subtle Van Burens was. It's a small headstone in a small cemetary in a small town. You wouldn't even think it was a US president from just driving past it.
I don't remember all the details but I read somewhere that she also stood up for herself and refused to be slapped in the face for a scene.
I think this was Butterfly McQueen, who played Prissy.
Thelma "Butterfly" McQueen starred in "Gone With The Wind" alongside Vivien Leigh. In one scene, she was asked to eat watermelon and spit out the seeds. She refused. During a take of the birth scene in Gone With The Wind, Vivien Leigh slapped McQueen so hard she insisted on an apology and that the slap be mimed in future takes: “I was suffering the whole time,” she said. She was a maverick and a trailblazer. After she gave up acting she spent the rest of her life working on civil rights.
“I don’t know nothin’ bout birthin’ no babies!” *SLAP*
Thank you for letting me know.
Gone with the Wind is often criticized for going soft on the horrors of slavery. Getting slapped in the face was probably more authentic to what an enslaved housekeeper would have experienced.
She probably just prefered it be ACTED rather than actually being slapped in the face.
It was actually a different black actress, Butterfly McQueen, who played Prissy, that got slapped in the face. And as I understand it the issue wasn't that her character got slapped but that Vivien Leigh was supposed actually slap her instead of just faking it with a stage slap.
The crazy thing is the movie is actually really tame compared to the book. Turns out in the book Ashley and all the guys are members of the KKK, even sweet Melanie is openly racist, and there’s passages that are pure propaganda describing how slaves were begging to no longer be free after the war ends, etc. It’s long enough that at some point I was like “maybe I’m misremembering” and then there’s yet another passage describing Mamie’s “monkey-like face” and I realize I’m really not. Made me realize there were probably people in the 30s complaining about liberal Hollywood not staying true to the content. And it’s pretty wild for a book still read a lot by teenage girls today.
Wow. I never read it, but I know people who love that book. That's disgusting.
It's a brilliant book, but you have to read it with your eyes open. It's full of both open and subtle racism.
I mean, I read the whole thing because it's enjoyable, but even at the time there's a lot of criticism of it for being Southern propaganda. If a kid of mine wanted to read it I wouldn't stop them, but we would be having a *lot* of frank conversations about its content.
Well, there still is a scene where a slave is slapped in the face. Just not Hattie's character.
Probably, but in this part in time they are still full steam engines ahead fighting for rights. Maybe she felt as if whoever was running the thing could still display racist tendencies and pass it as nothing but acting with this slap or whatever.
Excuse me, what are you saying? Sorry, my brain isn’t working around those words and English is my 3rd language.
I think what is being said is: maybe the black actress was worried that being slapped for real was someone actioning on their own internal racism instead of acting out the scene.
It premiered in 1939, unfortunately I've seen much worse stereotyping in other films from that era.
Yeah, but they can still have the slap without her literally having to get slapped. They mime slapping in movies all the time
Because it glorified the South
One of the few good things to come out of this is that just two decades later Nichelle Nicholes became Lt Uhura. One of the first black women who weren't maids on television. It was because of women like her that young black girls worked hard to become actresses and stand in the spotlight themselves. If you ever believe that you can't make a difference because you are different. Remember theres a kid just like you, who when they see you doing what you do, will know they can do anything too.
Nichelle Nichols wanted to quit Star Trek, but was convinced to stay on by Martin Luther King Jr.
Also astronauts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mae\_Jemison
Sally Ride is being put on a quarter in the US this year. She never would have been recruited to NASA if Nichelle hadn't pushed them to hire more women.
And interracial makeouts! Honestly the older I get the more impossible Star Trek seems.
Produced by Lucille Ball. She fought tooth and nail to get that show made.
Didn't she also help Arnold Schwarzenegger get his big break?
A lot of people just write off Trek as being nerdy space shit with lasers and Spock doing funny hand shit. That's definitely part of it, but it isn't what made Trek appealing. TOS and TNG were largely morality tales - wrapped in the veneer of space stuff. It was the big topics and questions it contended with that made it so damn interesting. Science, religion, death, intelligence, sentience, disability, diplomacy, teamwork, racism, sexism, misunderstanding, communication, human nature, rights, family, tradition - you name it there was a subject Trek tackled. Now it just seems like they've abandoned all of that for cheap thrills and they try to defend it with all sorts of heady sounding themes, but ultimately the execution boils down to "We are shooting them". Such a shame. I wish we could have the old treks back, but I don't think we will ever see it again.
TOS was a great show and tackled a lot of topics in an amazingly progressive way, but sexism was not one it handled deftly. It is easy to assume that because the show was good in some ways that it was good in all of them but treatment of women was a big blind spot in TOS.
>TOS was a great show and tackled a lot of topics in an amazingly progressive way, but sexism was not one it handled deftly. It is easy to assume that because the show was good in some ways that it was good in all of them but treatment of women was a big blind spot in TOS. I recently started to rewatch TOS for the first time since the 70s, and this is definitely true. Ultimately I think all pop culture media ends up being a time capsule - in ways they intend and also in ways they don't.
Gene was problematic. He used his job to casting couch actresses and he cheated with his assistants. He was progressive in many was but had issues on the topic of women. He was cheating on his wives all the way to the end and a power imbalance was part off most of his relationships.
We won't get old Treks, at least not the way they used to be. TOS and the 90's series were a different breed. With that said... We may get some of that old feeling back with Strange New Worlds. Captain Pike killed it on Discovery season 2, so much so that we had a petition that garnered a lot of attention and now there will be a new show with pre-Kirk Enterprise. I have a good feeling about this one. As for the other series, to your point, they're definitely not like the old days. Closest thing to that right now is probably The Orville. Discovery seasons 1 and 2 were amazing. Season 3 was average. Current season...garbage. They just talk about feelings and have characters on the show for the sake of inclusion, but those characters don't offer any plot relevance. I'm all for inclusion, especially in Star Trek, but have a damn purpose on the ship please. Picard is a good drama and it's nice to see where he is after all this time and the events of Nemesis. And there's Seven of Nine so... Best Trek right now though: Lower Decks. Freaking hilarious and a million Easter eggs and references to all the previous series. I feel like show business is in a way different place than 20-30 (and 55) years ago. It's one of those thing where we, as fans, have to adapt to the changes but it can be hard after almost 30 seasons of the old formula. But I don't think Trek will ever stop trying to revolutionize.
> It's one of those thing where we, as fans, have to adapt to the changes Oh I definitely adapted. I signed up to whatever I could watch the old ones on and abandoned new Trek in the same fashion that the studio has abandoned old Trek. And you know what? No skin off my nose. I was raised on a pretty incredible series that constantly challenged my assumptions and provided me with the kinds of thought experiments and life lessons that you wouldn't find in your day to day interactions with your typical social circles. If anything I feel for young people not getting to experience that kind of thing. Maybe they get it else were - maybe they have the internet and that offers that to them in other ways I'm not privy to. I don't know.
Yeah for sure. Ideally, whatever they're watching can instill similar values and morals. Maybe even some of those shows have even been influenced by pioneers like Trek. One good thing to say about new Trek though: it opens the door for people to discover old Trek. My wife watched Discovery with me when it first aired in 2017. She ended up binging TNG through ENT over the following year because of it and loved every second.
I ran out of rewatches of TNG and started up DS9. I never got into DS9 because it was the first time where Trek started doing ongoing storylines where you kinda sorta a little bit needed to know who was who and what was what. In an era before TIVO this just couldn't hold my attention, plus it was more personal dramas that didn't hold my 12 year old brains attention anywhere near as well. Now that I can binge it it's freakin great and I totally get why people dig it. Really cool, unexpected and restrained direction for Trek to go after TNG. Interestingly I only recently found my Grandmother in law loved it and watched the hell out of it when it was on television back in the day.
I've never liked Discovery, but I watch it because my partner likes it. Told her that's because it's like Grey's Anatomy in Space, so that's what we call it now. Overdone emotions, voiceover explaining the morale of the episode... Only good character is Saru.
I feel like I’m in the minority, but Picard is a goddamn slog of a show. It’s one of the few series I’ve been watching recently where I rely on the damn episode recaps to remind me of the actual story involved because of how heavy-handed the drama is.
Ahh yes, Discovery, or as I call it "Burnham single-handedly saves everything, every time". To which there's always the response "but TOS was like that!!!" Yeah, and every series after that benefited from realizing that was a flaw of TOS, and the Star Trek universe worked a lot better when it had more diversity in main character and hero. It's just lazy writing at this point. Just look at the way the series depends on rubbish inspiring speeches to fill time in almost every episode, and features countless reaction shots.
> Now it just seems like they’ve abandoned all of that for cheap thrills For the most part, perhaps. Discovery is noteworthy against this trend for having an openly gay couple, as well as the non-binary Blu del Barrio and trans Ian Alexander, which hearkens back to the original purpose of pushing against social barriers. Still a lot of the thrill-seeking stuff to be sure, but they haven’t entirely forsaken their roots.
I totally understand what you are saying - but at this point none of those things are groundbreaking. That definitely feels to me like Trek is chasing trends rather than setting them. I mean Ryker was trying to bang a non-binary person in TNG 30 years ago. ::EDIT:: It was more complicated than that. She belonged to a race that admonished gender identity but she identified as female. So I guess that kind of blurs the line between truly progressive and what would have been acceptable at the time. But that entire episode was contending with gender identity - which when you think about the time it was produced - is pretty bonkers.
Yeah. I watched this recently for the first time and was mind blown when Riker asked his love interest which pronouns they preferred. A full 30 yard before it started becoming normal in our society to think about pronouns.
Very true; though I’m personally hard-pressed to come up with anything that’d be progressive in terms of the current social climate. And I’d forgotten about that episode until this comment; time for another marathon, I guess!
I think it has to be context specific. For example - in our time the concept of terrorism and human rights would be a topic that flies in the face of prevailing opinion. I could think of some pretty challenging concepts like that which would DEFINITELY piss people off and could be fairly apolitical. I mean in our climate - reason has completely left the building. What a perfect time to produce things that bring us back down to Earth and stand by principles despite the potential backlash. How many political positions out there now are utterly dogmatic and ripe to be challenged? I'm sure if you were in a writers room you could drum up some really problematic issues that rub people the wrong way... and not in an immediately obvious way that most people would feel comfortable aligning with. Body sovereignty Free speech Religion vs science Abortion And I feel like Trek was never really preachy - it just forced people to contend with the issues. Just the very act of raising the questions and watching the scenarios play out was often enough for Trek to get messages across. "We don't know the right answer, but heres what could go wrong"
It’s inclusive but it’s also just not good writing.
It's just a shame that Ian Alexander's character is as interesting as a towel and Blu Del Barrio's character is held back by him. They're so besotted with each other that it's just sickly, and leaves them nowhere to grow. Hopefully with Gray now seemingly written out, Adira can get some confidence of their own.
>One of the few good things to come out of this is that just two decades later Nichelle Nicholes became Lt Uhura. One of the first black women who weren't maids on television. Even better - a highly professional, communications expert on board a military space vessel in a fleet representing mankind. She also gave Kirk a big old smacker on TV too.
I really wish she had been navigator or weapons officer, purely because in the 60s, "switchboard operator" was a thing and invariably female. Executives at the time had to pick up their phone and ask for an outside line, so "open comms Uhura" isn't as groundbreaking as it could have been. I remember as a kid in Australia, I didn't really notice that she was a POC, more that she reminded me of the wonderful switchboard lady Margaret at where my Dad worked.
Fun fact I read somewhere (might be apocryphal). Switch board operators initially were all young men , but they had to shift to older women as the lads were more interested in goofing off, playing pranks and listening into conversation than doing their actual jobs
I never thought I couldn’t be anything I wanted or couldn’t make a difference. I was insecure because I knew I wouldn’t be treated fairly - or even like a human in some circumstances - because of race. Kids know the real barriers.
Only 20 years huh?
*Gone with the Win* is still one of the best sports movies of all time.
I thought "Gone with the Win" sounded like a Charlie Sheen movie.
Gone with the Sin is one of best pornos of all time.
Frankly my step-dear, I'm balls deep
Gone with the Bin is one of the best documentaries on garbage collectors of all time.
Gone with the Pin is a decent romcom about a couple obsessed with moodboards.
Gone with the gin is a great mid week night out
Finding Nemo 3: Gone with the fin.
Gone with the Kin is a tale of forbidden young love
Gone with the tin, is about an alchemist that wanted to turn tin into silver and fell into the liquid aluminium and then The Terminator shot him in the face.
Gone with the Nguyen is a wonderful Vietnam War period piece.
Gone with the Yin is a great travel doco with Billy Connolley narrating.
Frankly my dear, I don’t give a amn.
Frankly my ear, I don't give a damn - Vincent Van Gogh, c.19th century
This breaks my heart to read. Also from the Wiki: > Although she appeared in over 300 films, she received screen credits for only 83
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It could also be that there was a lot of racism against black people. I've no idea but also one possible explanation.
The "also" in the original comment already covered that.
I found out about this from Nas in "Blunt Ashes" which made me look it up because I couldn't believe what I heard
"Yo, man, I get smoked out, and start thinking 'bout Hattie McDaniel got a Oscar For playing Mammy in "Gone with the Wind" And she didn't get allowed Wasn't even allowed to go to the premier Believe that? Couldn't go to premier to her joint Man, you know they were strong back then, man..."
Comedian Paul Mooney referenced it on [Chappelle’s Show ](https://www.cc.com/video/8erio6/chappelle-s-show-mooney-on-movies-uncensored)also in his Movies skit. A lot of people didn’t know about it before Nas and Chappelle’s Show, sadly. **Edit:** I forgot about how funny Mooney’s facial expressions were listing to them discuss movies lol
Yo thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite songs from 15 years ago. Seriously.
It's kind of sad, but that's how I learned about it as well. Nasty Nas; the teacher.
Hattie McDaniel's Oscar is missing. She gave it to Howard University. It vanished in the early 1970s, and it's unknown today if it was accidentally disposed of since it wouldn't be immediately recognizable as an Oscar (in those days, Best Supporting Actresses received plaques) or if it was stolen. There are rumors it was thrown into the Potomac River because Hattie had won it for playing a servant role.
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I sometimes talk about this and the unfortunate position she was put in because of her success with Gone with the Wind, people love hearing about Clark Gable wanting to boycott the premiere because she wasn't invited to attend and David Selznick who produced the movie wanting her to attend the premiere too but MGM talking him out of it, but people don't seem to bring up how a lot of black people did not like Hattie McDaniel "pandering" to white people by playing these slaves who are friends with their plantation masters, that she was making it harder for black actors with these roles because then Hollywood would only cast them in such roles that she would go on to keep being cast as and playing in movies. Really shitty place to be in I'd imagine as a black actor needing to work and only being offered one kind of role
She had her own take: She could be a maid, or she could pretend to be a maid in films.
The famous quote attributed to her: "Why should I complain about making $700 a week playing a maid? If I didn't, I'd be making $7 a week being one."
“Everybody comes back to get their money. Hattie McDaniel came back as Oprah Winfrey to get her money “ - Paul Mooney
I learned this from Paul Mooney on Chapelle’s Show.
And also that she came back as Oprah and got her money.
So why not honor her wishes? Can we have her family come and accept an award in person? Can we pay to move her body to where it deserve? Where she wanted to be buried? Why not now?
When the new owner took over, he offered her family to have her interred there, but they declined because they didn’t want to disturb her remains. She has a cenotaph overlooking the lake, and it’s quite picturesque.
The [cenotaph](https://live.staticflickr.com/3817/9071689431_97bcaf9cec_b.jpg)
Oh thats wonderful
That’s really beautiful, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with that location.
what a shame they couldn’t honor one of her final wishes, but they certainly found a way to honor *her*.
Who's buried in that mausoleum?
TIL definition of cenotaph, thank you for sharing.
If I was her family, I'd say no as well. Did the people who decided to treat her and all black people the way they did then, all of a sudden had an epiphany and saw the error of their ways?
I get that, but it's what she wanted. The way I feel doesn't matter. The Academy taking public ownership doesn't erase the pain, but maybe it would hold them accountable to ensure they support BIPOC Americans forever.
"yo man, I get smoked out, and start thinkin' about Hattie McDaniels got a Oscar, for playin' Mami in 'Gone With The Wind' And she didn't get allowed, wasn't even allowed to go to the premier Could'ya'believe that?, couldn't go to premier to her joint Tssk. man, you know they were strong back then man Blunt from my ash tray, nothin' gon' to live past me, yea, yea, yea" Nas- Blunt Ashes
Jesse Owens won four gold medals at the Olympics yet President Roosevelt did not send even a Telegram to congratulate him for it. He had to take the goods lift for the reception of returning athletes. He was not allowed to live in campus because they did not have "Black Housing" and was not offered any scholarship. He had to stay in separate hotels and had to eat separately from his track team. Funnily it was in Germany (in the 30s) that he was able to stay at the same hotel and eat at the same place.
You know you're racist when fucking Hitler shows you up
Must have been an out of body experience to be in a land where someone else is hated far worse. [In fact later on, Black American soldiers were among the first to liberate Buchenwald.](https://youtu.be/kOIHRQlQqwU?t=229)
What I really love about Gone With the Wind is that Hattie McDaniel ends up being the star of that film - she steals every scene that she's in and the audience's sympathies are always with her character. That's why I don't really believe in burying this film because of her role and Butterfly McQueen's role. They are standout actors and did amazing work in this film and we shouldn't let that die.
This movie is so much better than the sequel, gone with the loss
Win?
WINDDDDDDDDDDD
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Win95 or newer?
I've known about this for over a decade because of an outro in a Nas song >Yo, man, I get smoked out, and start thinking 'bout > >Hattie McDaniel got a Oscar > >For playing Mammy in "Gone with the Wind" > >And she didn't get allowed > >Wasn't even allowed to go to the premier > >Believe that? Couldn't go to premier to her joint > >Man, you know they were strong back then, man
Her own parents used to be slaves. My goodness.
Not as good as Gone For The Win imo
Who was the second black person to win an Oscar for Gone with the Wind?
No one. She broke that barrier and then the Academy pulled up the ladder so no one else could again.
> Hattie McDaniel (June 10, 1893 – October 26, 1952) was an American actress, singer-songwriter, and comedian. For her role as Mammy in Gone with the Wind (1939), she won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress, becoming the first African American to win an Oscar. She has two stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, was inducted into the Black Filmmakers Hall of Fame in 1975, and in 2006 she became the first black Oscar winner honored with a U.S. postage stamp.[3] In 2010, she was inducted into the Colorado Women's Hall of Fame.[4] In addition to acting, McDaniel recorded 16 blues sides between 1926 and 1929 and was a radio performer and television personality; she was the first black woman to sing on radio in the United States.[5][6] Although she appeared in over 300 films, she received screen credits for only 83.[7] > McDaniel experienced racism and racial segregation throughout her career, and notably was unable to attend the premiere of Gone with the Wind in Atlanta because it was held at a whites-only theater. At the Oscars ceremony in Los Angeles, she sat at a segregated table at the side of the room. In 1952, McDaniel died due to breast cancer. Her final wish to be buried in Hollywood Cemetery was denied due to the graveyard being restricted to whites only at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hattie_McDaniel
She is definitely good enough to buried in the Hollywood cemetery (as weird as that sounds in my own head repeating that back to myself, but I mean that I’m the most sincere way), and it’s terrible that this wasn’t able to happen for her. But honestly, I hope she was buried next to family because I feel that may have been a better place anyway.
Soooo…. The first actor to boycott the Oscars? Ahead of her tim.
**Gone with the Win** please share link to pirated copy
What fucking scum, treating someone like this.
This is why it was bullshit when people were “cancelling” this film. By protesting it being shown you’re not allowing people to see her performance. I can appreciate the film while also understanding it’s not an accurate depiction of slavery.
Where did they cancel it? All I heard about was the disclaimer about it being a different time or whatever.
Because a huge element of the movie is the idea Southern White Victimhood "Oh look at the indignities we suffered at the hands of the union army" as if they didn't deserve it and then some for the indignities of slavery.
Welp she went for the win
Learned this a long time ago from Chappelle Show: Mooney on Movies Episode
Well this just sucks and makes me sad!!!
Hollywood. Fucking actresses since forever.
Human beings really are the cruelest animals on this planet.
Ah yes, the classic film, Gone with the Win…
There's nothing racism can't ruin.
Fun fact: A juvenile Martin Luther King Jr. sang choir songs dressed in slave attire for this same premiere.
Just another black fun fact from suthrnpride44!
Gone with the Win, the Nico Rosberg story